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On this episode of the Dudes and Dads podcast, we talk with Mark Benton about retreating.

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[MUSIC]

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You're listening to the Dudes and Dads podcast,

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a show dedicated to helping men be better dudes and dads

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by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling.

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And now, here are your hosts, Joel DeMott and Andy Lehman.

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Wrong, wrong, that's not Joel DeMott sitting right here next to me.

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No, no it's not.

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It is none other than Mark Benton, the second who...

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What up?

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What up?

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Mark, man, welcome back.

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It has been a long time.

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We had you back on season three, episode 11, and we were talking about why it's important

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to go to church.

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And we're talking now about retreating.

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So Joel, you know, just so you know, Joel said to me, I asked him if we can record Sunday

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and he said, actually, I'm going to be out of town.

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And I said, OK, fine.

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Do you mind if I invite Mark Vendon to be on and be our co-host?

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He might go.

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So he's absolutely. So Mark, welcome back to the show.

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It's good to have you back on.

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If it's been so long, man, thank you so much.

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I know I appreciate it, though.

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Thank you so much. And listen, shout out to Joel.

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As I said, yes, I'm not him.

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It's just a few shades darker.

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My hair is a little taller, but Joel is still my brother, man.

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Yeah, we're still brothers.

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Absolutely. I'm glad to be back on here with you.

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Yes, definitely.

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So, yeah, it's it again.

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Last time we talked to you, we were talking about the importance

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of going to church. And that was a good episode. I'll link to it in the show notes. If you

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guys have not heard it, we were talking a long time ago about why it's important to

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go to church. And for those of you who don't know, Mark has been a long time friend. We've

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never actually met in person though. But hopefully one day I had the had the goal.

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But then you moved down south further south. So yeah, I did a little further south. Yep.

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Maybe one day. Yeah, one day.

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One day we're in Nashville or Clarksville and then move down here like, it's been nine

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months now down in a DFW area, Dallas Fort Worth area. So it's been good.

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It's yeah, definitely. So all right guys. So tonight we're actually going to be talking

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about retreating. But before we do that though, I want to remind you that support for this

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episode comes from Everince Financial, helping individuals and organizations combine faith

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and finance through retirement planning, banking and other financial services. More at everince.com.

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So, retreating. I know even when I said, "Hey, let's do talk about retreating," you're

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just like, "So, you're talking about this?" And I said, "Yeah, we're going to talk a

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little bit about what is retreating and how we can do it." So, retreating. I actually

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looked up retreating the dictionary and it's in military wise it's withdraw from an enemy

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forces as a result of their superior power or after a defeat or in general just an active

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moving away especially from something that's difficult, dangerous or disagreeable. So that

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happens even in our lives, right? I mean, if you run, run hardcore and you're running your

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life just boom, boom, boom, you're going to burn out. And so it's, it, uh, where retreat

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is kind of a time to reset, right? It's, it's a time to kind of go and this doesn't have

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to be anything big, like, right? I mean, like when I think of retreating, my parents run

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a retreat ministry and I, you know, they have people that go away for a couple of days,

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come back, you know, that's, that's one type of retreat. But we're, we can also talk about

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retreating to when it comes to just the everyday type of things where just kind of getting

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out of the ordinary doing what's actually called a pattern interrupt.

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So I don't know if you've ever heard that, Mark.

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Oh, I like that.

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So I say, yeah, it's essentially the idea of doing something different to kind of reset

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yourself.

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So just doing something out of the ordinary.

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And marketers do this a lot too, to get your attention on a TV.

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That's why sometimes the commercials are louder or whatever because it's something just different

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enough that it's going to catch your attention. And so I think retreating is the same way,

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right? I mean, it's something just a little bit different that helps your mind kind of

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reset and kind of, you know, you can kind of, it's out of the ordinary.

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Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting you said that because I actually did a funeral earlier

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today and got back, got back at a decent time, you know, to the house. And so I was just feeling

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a little, really just a little tired. And so my wife was like, why don't you just take a nap

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real quick? And I was like, that's a good idea. So I took 40 minute nap earlier. And I woke up

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and I was like, Hey, I still got time for dinner and hopped on here with you. But I love what you

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You said, Andy, how it's sometimes it's not just the all day thing or the all week thing,

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you know, whether it's a vacation and there's 100% of place for that.

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Love that you said that it's sometimes it's in the everyday, you know, and I like that

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language you use of what are the small interruptions of your normal patterns?

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Because I don't take 30 or 40 minutes and I don't believe them.

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I just didn't really happen.

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Right.

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We get busy with our day.

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And I find myself going, "I need to do X, Y, and Z."

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And next thing I know, I'm just the same thing over and over and over again.

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I go to work.

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I mean, the nice thing for me right now is I'm actually working from home two days a

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week.

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And so that's a little bit for me, a different, kind of when we talk about pattern interrupts.

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It's something where I'm not always doing the same thing every day.

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But there are a lot of times that, especially if I'm really stressed out at work, I'll just

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go out and go for a walk, you know, 20 minute walk or whatever. And, and that helps me kind

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of retreat and withdraw from the daily stresses. And I use that as a time to, a lot of times

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I'll be praying when I walk. So I'm having a conversation with God. Or I'm listening,

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sometimes I'm listening to podcasts, but a lot of times I'm just trying to get away

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from what's going on at work. And I've used that time to pray. And for me, I like having

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a conversation out loud with God. And so that's kind of good on my walk. I may look crazy,

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but I'm doing it, right?

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So,

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Like, no, I, so I want to affirm that because walks with the Lord has become like my go-to

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man. I've probably been doing it now. Really, ironically, COVID is the COVID year was like

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the year that set that part into motion. Usually it would just be my bonus room, which is fine.

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For some people, it's their backyard patio. I would do things similar to it, but I don't

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know what it was at the time. Of course, you're locked up for months at a time.

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Right.

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We would just like, "Okay, let's just take a walk around our neighborhood." We started

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doing it. It became like a clean break, basically, to say our day is ending. Because at that

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point, almost everything was working from home.

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Right.

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kind of like, let's implement this thing that kind of just gets us out of, as you said, the norm,

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you know, that interrupts the pattern. And bro, almost three years later, like, it's my favorite

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thing to do. So I'm with you. I'll be looking crazy witchy, man, if I'm talking out loud to the Lord.

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So when you do it, are you doing it separately or are you doing it with your wife? How are you

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doing that walk? We'll do both. I do it a lot on my own. I usually try to work out for, I've

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I've increased the five times a week.

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If I don't feel like working out at all, then I just tell myself, "Hey, then do a mandatory

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walk."

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And it'll be 30 minutes and sometimes it goes long for an hour.

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So I'll do that on my own, just one, not just to have that time with the Lord, but it's

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kind of like I usually do something like that on my off days.

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So I've made that a part of the rhythm of, I guess you could say, of my Sabbath.

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So I'll still probably do, sometimes I even do a 10 to 15 minute walk every other day

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just to kind of get out of my office and just walk around and get out of my head.

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But I intentionally try to do a 40 minute to an hour walk once a week.

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And that's typically on my off days.

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So it's kind of like this in depth time where I can just disconnect with whatever is going

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on in my own life.

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But not just to hear from the Lord, but also just to be.

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And I think that's the other thing is that, you know, retreating is, yes, there's a time,

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of course, to rest and everything like that, which is 100% part of it. But I also think

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about the Psalm 4610 mindset where I can just be still and just know that God is God. So

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sometimes it's just the fellowship of just being with Him. And even that, it's like restorative

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in its own way.

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Sure. Yeah. So I think for us as a family, we've kind of said that Sundays are, well,

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I mean, again, my wife working in the church is a little bit different.

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But she, you know, we've come across, we've said basically that

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some days are going to be our day for relaxing and doing the things we want to do.

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And so that that may mean there's dishes sitting on the counter,

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but we don't have to do them, right?

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We're giving ourself grace to say, that's OK, we don't need to do that.

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We're going to retreat.

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And a lot of times that looks like we're just staying home after church, you know,

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and and we're, you know, maybe watching a movie, we're resting.

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We're doing things that we don't feel guilty about doing because we've set that day aside.

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Now, for her in the church, that's not her 100% rest day because she's still working

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that morning, right?

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So, she mixed her to protect that and she actually has Friday off.

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And so, she tries to protect that and get away or be home alone.

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It's harder in the summer with the kids, you know, but she tries to find something where

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she can get away and have some Sabbath, if you will.

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So that way she can retreat away from her busy everyday schedule.

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Yeah.

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Well, I love that you said how your wife does her part to protect it.

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So the thing about having a retreat, whether it's a daily rhythm or a weekly rhythm, monthly

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rhythm, you have to plan it.

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Because no one's going to do it for you.

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I love that you said, so if the dishes are there, we don't have to do it.

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Right.

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Yes, I love that.

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have made an intentional decision ahead of time to go, "Hey, on this day and this time,

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we're not doing it."

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So, I just realized I didn't answer the other part of your question.

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So I have my time where I do my walks just me and the Lord.

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And then they were telling me, "Hey, babe, let's go to the park."

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And we, Juvie and I have some of our best in-depth conversations on walks.

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That's good.

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There's something about just disconnecting from...

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I can't get off that term you use, man.

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the interrupted patterns. It's just something about doing that. It's not just idle chit-chat,

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but we'll dream together. We'll talk through, okay, what is the next step to kind of get

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closer to the dream? What do you feel like the Lord is telling you in your life? And

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it's interesting how we'll be in different parts of our own personal devotion or walk

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with the Lord, yet it still intersects. Oh, yeah.

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You know? Yeah. But that happens in our retreat of just taking walks. You know?

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Well, I think too that walks are a good thing because you really don't have anything else

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to do as you're walking. I mean, yes, you have to walk for traffic. You don't want to

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get hit, right? But I mean, you don't have anything else to do. You're not scrolling

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on your phone. I mean, yeah, you could be listening to a podcast or whatever, but your

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attention is right there. So whether it be you and your wife or you and God, like there's

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that one-on-one-ness there. And so there's an intentionality that we have that makes

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it so that we're focused, that we're not distracted. And so yeah, walks are a really

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great thing to do that.

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Yeah. Yeah. Granted, I still have my moment where I just sit in my living room, you know,

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and sit in stillness, of course, where I'm praying and I'm sitting, I'll even posture

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my body, sometimes I'll sit upright just to kind of let my body know that, "God, I'm

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here for you."

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Sometimes it's even to tell my literal mind of, "Mark, just relax."

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Just be where your feet are planted type thing.

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So how do you do that?

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How do you when you're sitting in your living room?

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For me, I find it tough to unplug because if I'm sitting there, I can put my phone away

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and that's fine.

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I either fall asleep because I'm sitting there, which again, that's fine.

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I mean, there are times for that.

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But if you're trying to be intentional and sitting in stillness, it's hard to keep our

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minds focused sometimes.

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So how do you do that?

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Yeah.

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So I do want to firmly acknowledge that I don't have kids.

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So it's all the dads and the parents.

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I'm not going to out like I know what it's like as I don't, but I did know I do notice

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for me, even if I'm around with the like, if I'm on vacation with a group of people

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or something like that, if I have to do it first thing in the morning, or I'll even,

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so even going back to like taking a walk, if I find a bench or something, I'll do the

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same thing.

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I'll find a bench to sit down and one of two things happened.

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Either I'll listen to worship and I'll listen to the words in the song.

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sometimes I'll sing it, sometimes I won't. But I allow the words to basically focus my mind.

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And to your point, so when I, so I admit when I'm distracted, that's the first thing I guess I

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would say is that it's when I know I'm distracted, I go, okay, I know that my mind is distracted.

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And I start naming what all the distractions are. And then once I'm done naming it, I'll put on a

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worship song because worship has the beauty of worship is that it has a way of just taking your

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mind off of the distractions. Anything else that's going on in your life and focusing on the Lord.

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And so in order to hear from him or even just be present with him, I have to focus my mind on him,

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which is hard to do if I'm distracted. So I just own when I am distracted. I name it,

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I share it, and then by listening to a song that helps me to direct my mind so that I can be

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receptive now to just listen.

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Got you.

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Sometimes it's one song.

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Sometimes it's two or three.

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It just depends.

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Some days are more challenging than others.

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And it doesn't even have to be because you're going through a hard season.

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You might just might be cluttered in all the right place.

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But I've learned to get myself like that permission of if after one song,

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but I feel like I need to sit there for a little bit.

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I'm like, okay, let me throw in another worship and I'll keep going.

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What I like about walks, which is kind of also how it started is that if I don't

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feel like I can focus my mind by sitting, by sometimes I just work it out, literally.

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And there's actually a science into saying like what that you can physically work out

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stress, you can physically work out worries and doubts and all that.

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You don't have to be Shaun T insanity or something like that, which is why like a walk is actually

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very beneficial.

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At the same time, probably 10 or 15 minutes into a walk, I remind myself, hey, take a

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seat. And I'll just sit down, whether I find a bench or I'll come back to, you know, the

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house and just sit and stillness. So, um, worst of it is a huge piece of it, uh, that

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helps me to just kind of focus my mind. But I'm just reminded like you have to focus your

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mind in order to be present with the Lord and hear from Him. But we focus it by giving

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ourselves permission to label what are the things that are distracting.

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That's really good. I found for myself recently I've come across a

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Subgenre of music called lo-fi. It's like kind of chill. Yes

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And so like I've been listening to this lo-fi worship and it's great because it doesn't have music in it

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But it's kind of like it reminds me. I mean doesn't have music. It doesn't have words in it

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Yeah, so like I find myself like

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Actually concentrating on the lyrics then because I have to recall them from my mind not just listen to what's being said to me

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It's more of coming from my heart then because it's coming.

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I'm having to recall those out of memory.

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And then the thing I like about Lo-Fi is for one, it's super chill and like, yeah.

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And like, I like it because there is imperfections in it.

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And so it reminds me that not everything is perfect.

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And so that's, I like listening to that.

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So if you've not ever checked that out, check out some Lo-Fi worship because it's kind of good.

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Bro, there is not one week that goes by and sometimes my wife loves it and hates it. There's

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not one week that goes by where I don't play a lo-fi, glass chill hop, playlist.

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That's awesome.

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And by the way, it's beautiful actually if you're trying to go to sleep and you can't sleep.

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Hmm.

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The same thing, your mind is everywhere. I'll throw on my AirPods on one side and I'll just play

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chill hop. And there's something about just listening to it that just eases my mind and

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brings me into sleep. And now I'm like, I mean, which is cool because we talked about it, like,

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how much, how much does scripture talk about like, think on the higher things? You know, meditate,

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you know, keep your thoughts on the higher things. And so, music, man, I'm so glad you said chill

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hot. Like that's, I've been in it for like five years now. That's awesome. Yeah, I just recently

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came across it. So I'm loving it. So the other thing, some of the other things that I like doing

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to kind of just do again, like the pattern interrupts and things that are not necessarily

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big giant go away and retreat because those have their place and we can talk about those

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too.

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But a lot of times those are harder because they take a bigger plan.

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They take something that's going to take a longer time to go, "Okay, I'm going to get

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away for these three days so I need to clear my schedule."

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But there's a lot of other things.

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So for me, a lot of times I like going away to the coffee shop.

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So for me, I can chill out.

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I can actually do a lot more studying and a lot more concentrating on the word.

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If I'm at a coffee shop, I can sit there even if there's distractions around me.

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I can study more there than at home because for me at home, my mind's running 100 different

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places.

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It's thinking about what I need to do next.

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It's all this stuff.

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But if I'm at the coffee shop and usually have a really good cup of coffee, and I can

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get away. And now sometimes it's hard because you'll find people that you know that come

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into the coffee shop. But for the most part, even if it's just like a quick, like, "Hey,

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how's it going?" Like, they leave you alone. And so for me, that's one of the ways that

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I like to get away and study and retreat, if you will.

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Do you find like your ability to focus increases by, I guess, retreating from a spot that's

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like familiar? Do you feel like that's what it is for you?

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I think for me, yeah, it's something out of the ordinary again. So like, I don't, even

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if it's a familiar coffee shop, you know, because there's several different coffee shops

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in my town. And even if it's a familiar coffee shop, just the getting away and intentionality,

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I think, it's being intentional about getting, getting away and being able to stop what I'm

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doing helps. Yeah, something that you said, it kind of reminded me of even in Jesus' ministry.

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Like, so for example, when he fed the 5,000, which really was probably closer like 15,000,

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instead, you know, 5,000 men, it's not including wives and kids and all that. But what you think

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about like, this is one of the greatest miracles that we hear. And the text actually says that

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when he was done, it says that he went away to a quiet place. And so there's just this,

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and that's not the first time. There's a lot of other times where when you're reading throughout

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the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, where before Jesus does a miracle or after,

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there's a lot of language that says things such as he came from a quiet place or went away into a

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quiet place. And what I love about that is that it's so easy to use, you know, Jesus as the golden

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the standard of like, he worked hard, you know, he was willing to be in convenience,

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he worked his tail off, which is true. But if we're going to use Jesus as an example,

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let's go all the way because he also rested very well. And so I just love that even in

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the biggest moments of his ministry, it was either always followed up with or it was led

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out of a posture of retreat. And what I'm hearing even from you is that you said like,

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leave a place to basically disconnect, but really you're disconnecting with the mindset

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of wanting to reintegrate back into the world.

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The retreat is actually filling us up to do more of whatever the Lord's called us to do,

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wherever that is.

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It doesn't matter if it's the church, corporate America, or wherever that is.

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I think about is that when unchecked, going into retreating and quiet time can also easily

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turn into isolation.

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Okay.

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It's been sweet talking about that.

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Yeah.

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So, first of all, and I'll use myself on the opposite extreme.

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So because I'm an extrovert, I easily connect with people.

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And so the way I recharge is through community.

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But community unchecked can lead to co-dependency.

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And in the same sense, for an introvert, they recharge by being on their own.

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So because they naturally recharge by being on their own, they're natural at being in

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solitude.

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But when unchecked, solitude can turn into isolation.

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So in the same sense, we all need community.

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We all need solitude, but codependency and isolation is at the other extreme of that.

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So if I'm retreating just to not so much, yes, we have to escape from the world, but

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if I'm escaping only to basically keep everyone at bay and distant, not to reintegrate, I would

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argue you're probably not looking in for solitude.

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You're probably looking for isolation.

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And so there are times where I know that probably I would say 55, 45 now, 55 extrovert, 45 introvert.

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even in my extrovertness, I can even recognize within my own soul where I'm like, if I'm

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spending time with someone, I've been doing it because I really value and desire the community

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or am I starving to find and fall into that line of co-dependency? Meaning, am I trying to find my

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value in someone/something else outside of the Lord? And so when I do feel that nudge,

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that gives me permission to take a time out and just retreat and step into, as Jesus said,

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to go away to a quiet place so I can just be with the Lord. And I think that's the other thing.

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Sometimes it's not always just about getting something. Not that that won't come, but sometimes

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it's just being present. So like, let's be real, how many times are you with your wife, Andy?

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You don't have to say a word, but there's something about just being in the same room.

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Right. Yeah, just spending time together.

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Correct. Correct. And so sometimes that's what the retreat is. It's not that you won't receive

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something out of it, but sometimes the gift is the presence. Sometimes the gift is just the being.

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But do we believe that? Do we trust that in the retreat when I'm present with people who love

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me? And I was hanging out with one of my buddies because I've been here nine months now. And when

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we were driving away from lunch, there was a moment in the car where we were quiet for two minutes.

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And Craig says, "I love that we're at that point in our friendship where no one has to speak."

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That's awesome. And I was just like, "Dang, it was just a great, beautiful moment of...

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It was kind of like a moment for a treat. Here we are working together, but there's just two

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minutes as we're driving from lunch back to our office of just like, "This is nice." And no one's

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anything, but it was just the gift wasn't just being with each other. Yeah. And I think definitely

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I think that that can... That happens when we spend time with the Lord too. A lot of times,

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even if I'm just not necessarily expecting something, but I'm reading or I'm worshiping or

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whatever that looks like, there's a recharge that happens afterwards where you're ready to get back

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into the world, you're ready to go, you're ready to like just that time away has given you energy.

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I'm for the most part an extroverted person too, but it's interesting. I find time

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like alone, especially intentional time with God, like is recharging for me too. Even though I'm

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an extrovert person and I'd rather hang out all day with people than be alone. But I find that

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that helps when I spend that time with God. Because I think it's interesting because I think as an

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extrovert, spending time with God is hard to do with people. I mean, you can do it with people.

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Don't get me wrong. You can. I mean, especially like, you know, think about a good worship service

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where you've had like your corporate, you're doing corporate worship and obviously that's not alone.

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You're still singly worshiping God, but you're worshiping God together with everybody else.

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So that, that, I guess, as an extrovert, you can, you can use that too. But, but even for me, like

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the time alone is more, I find that, I don't know how to say that. It's, it's...

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There's something rich that takes place where it's just you and the Lord is what you're saying.

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Yeah. Yeah. I find energy in both, but I think that's... Those are the times and the moments

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that I get more clarity on his calling on my life. Whereas, I was like, "The worship services are good,

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and I'm worshiping God, but I don't necessarily get something back." Again, I don't want to

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I want to sound like I'm saying I want to have to have something back.

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You're good.

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But there's, God doesn't speak to me in the same way when we're in the corporate worship

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than when I'm alone with him, if that makes sense.

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Andy, there are, it's funny because the reason why I kind of say like I'm probably 55, 45,

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now I start to question that I'm actually learning leaning more towards 50/50 because

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The times I get with God are just so, they're so sweet.

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And, and here's what it is now, because I've learned and I'm still learning

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the art of retreating.

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It's not something where I go, I got to spend time with the Lord.

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Andy, I look forward to.

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And I equally feel it when I don't do it now.

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What's that look like for you when you don't like what?

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What's that look like for you?

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Yeah. So there are five.

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I remember, see if I can remember them all.

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So one of my buddies, his name is Derek.

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He was our campus pastor, but he gave me a few words and I'm trying to look it up as

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I talk, but I remember some of them.

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But one of the things he said was that there are certain words that he uses that he kind

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of keeps as a filter.

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And so one of them is balanced, centered, grounded, source.

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And then there was, there was one more.

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But Nia's to say, when he goes through those words, he just simply asks himself, "Where

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do I feel unbalanced today?"

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Here we go.

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Just found it.

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Spirit is a verse.

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So, spirit, source, center, balance, and ground.

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So spirit meaning, how is your spirit feeling right now?

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Because there's your spirit, and then there's the Holy Spirit.

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And so, does your spirit fit?

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Does just your inner person just feel just off?

401
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Are you stressed?

402
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Did you wake up with anxious worries, doubts?

403
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Just how is your inner spirit doing?

404
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The second one is source.

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What it means by that is that all life comes from Christ because he is the source, but

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do we acknowledge the fact that Jesus Christ is the source?

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He is my life.

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Maybe my anxiousness is coming from the fact that I'm trying to be at the source of something

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instead of trusting God to be at the source of something.

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The third one is center.

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I love this one.

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is the center of all creation for John 1 verse 1 through 5, but asking questions such as,

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"What are you speaking to the Lord? What are you releasing to the Lord? And then what are you receiving

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from the Lord?" But it's all centered basically around him. And I love that the idea of God

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being centered is that it gives us permission to share it with its a partnership. It's like,

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I guess we live or lie committed to him,

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but the Lord wants to hear from you.

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Even the things that you don't think he wants to hear,

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he wants to hear that.

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So because I can't receive from God, Andy,

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if I'm not willing to even open myself up

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and share with him what's in me.

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So I don't have to come to God with these,

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with this perfect, beautiful dissertation

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of what it is I want.

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I can come to him messy.

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So what am I releasing so that I can actually receive?

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Yeah. Well, I think, like, as our relationships, you know, with our wives,

429
00:29:39,580 --> 00:29:44,700
too, like, if you were just to go in there and have like a perfect conversation with her,

430
00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:48,980
like, that's not going to be a good, like, she's not going to be able to know you well,

431
00:29:48,980 --> 00:29:53,020
you know, like, even though she may know you well, because she's been married to you for however long,

432
00:29:53,020 --> 00:29:59,300
but, but if you're not willing to open up and say, this sucks, or I had a bad day,

433
00:29:59,300 --> 00:30:01,600
or this is what's really bothering me.

434
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,200
You can't, she can't speak into you.

435
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,100
And I think the same thing with God.

436
00:30:08,100 --> 00:30:10,700
Like if we're not willing to go to him and say,

437
00:30:10,700 --> 00:30:13,900
this is hard, like what I'm dealing with right now is,

438
00:30:13,900 --> 00:30:15,200
is it sucks.

439
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,500
And like sometimes it's, you know, I don't know that I see you here.

440
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:23,700
Like if we're not willing to open up and say those things with him,

441
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:27,000
it's hard for him to show himself to us sometimes.

442
00:30:27,100 --> 00:30:28,100
Because we're closing.

443
00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:33,380
Honestly, Andy, I really believe that's part of the reason why many of us are probably

444
00:30:33,380 --> 00:30:34,380
exhausted.

445
00:30:34,380 --> 00:30:38,360
Because we're not honest about where we're at.

446
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:45,320
As if it's a crime to admit to the people that we love and to a God who loves us and

447
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,980
desires us to go, "I'm not doing good."

448
00:30:47,980 --> 00:30:48,980
Yeah.

449
00:30:48,980 --> 00:30:51,700
Like, I'm just off, you know?

450
00:30:51,700 --> 00:30:55,000
And the other one is balance and ground.

451
00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:00,840
idea of balance, he actually challenged me with this, my friend Derek, he said basically,

452
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,640
"What if balance is not something necessarily to create?"

453
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:09,440
So, when I think of balance, I think of a juggling act, or even a jump rope when you're

454
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:10,440
a kid.

455
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,600
They have those big jump ropes and you jump in, and what are you doing?

456
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:14,800
You're trying to find the timing.

457
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:21,160
So, you see the kids kind of lean back and forth for a few jumps and then they jump in.

458
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,280
But he said, "What if..."

459
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:29,600
The other way to, of course, to generate the jump rope is if you're just turning it yourself,

460
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:30,600
like single-handedly.

461
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,880
But his point is, too many times we look at balance as that, as something is like a jump

462
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,000
rope where we're the ones generating the energy.

463
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,200
We have to find the rhythm and the pace when we just keep going.

464
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,960
But what if balance is like when you were a kid, when one person has one end, the other

465
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,360
person has the other in and it's your job to get in step with the balance of whatever

466
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,960
is going on in that season of life.

467
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,760
But that comes from the Lord.

468
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,760
So instead of me going, "God, I'm trying to balance all these things," these are all

469
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,600
the things that are on my playground.

470
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,760
"Please help me balance and maintain what it is you've already created."

471
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:12,320
Because there's a balance in the rhythm to, I mean, literally from the moon and the stars

472
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,680
and just the rotation of the plant.

473
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,920
His creation is already balanced.

474
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,880
So it's just, so sometimes what, instead of trying to create balance, maybe it's not our

475
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,840
job so much to create it, but it's our job to discern the balance of what's ever in place.

476
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,400
And then the last one is a ground, like where am I?

477
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,480
So if the goal is to be grounded, then maybe the question you have to ask yourself is where

478
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:35,480
am I ungrounded?

479
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,840
I like to ask anchored, I think, you know, like a ship.

480
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,720
But the ship can move back and forth on the surface.

481
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,880
But if it's anchored, it's not going to drift up.

482
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,400
So when I think of, Jibrila asked me probably about three weeks ago and she said, "You doing

483
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:53,400
all right?"

484
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,120
And I was like, "I feel unanchored today."

485
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:01,120
And it was nothing like, again, we're in a great season in our life, but it was just

486
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,880
had a lot going on just that specific week.

487
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,720
And she looked at me and she said, "Have you spent time with Lauren?"

488
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,720
I said, "I have, but I've not spent time listening to him."

489
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:11,720
Oh.

490
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:12,720
Yeah.

491
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:13,720
Exactly.

492
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,960
(laughing)

493
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:17,400
And actually, of course, when I said,

494
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,560
I did not make time to listen to him.

495
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:20,400
- Mm.

496
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,040
- That's what I said.

497
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:22,920
- Gotcha.

498
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,800
- So in other words, I've worshiped, I've shared,

499
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,680
I've emptied myself, I've vented, I've gone to him,

500
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,420
but I did not create time to just shut up

501
00:33:34,420 --> 00:33:37,440
and just be present with him and just listen.

502
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,840
And so I decided to say it, going back to what I said earlier,

503
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,800
like, yes, there's a time to share it, to grieve it,

504
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,640
to feel it, to let the Lord know.

505
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,760
But at some point too, I also have to create time

506
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,720
to just hear him and let the Lord know,

507
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,400
like God, I'm uncentered in this.

508
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,560
I'm not anchored here and I need your help to get me anchored.

509
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,680
So yeah, so those are things

510
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,720
that's really, really helped me to do that.

511
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,680
I just pay attention to, here's the deal,

512
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,440
your body talks to you, just like how it's physically.

513
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,920
The problem is we ignore it, just like we do physically.

514
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,240
- Yep, yep.

515
00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:18,640
So, when I feel in a non-settlement spiritually, mentally, emotionally, I'm just learning to

516
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:26,160
own that and I'm quicker to identify it and lean into it immediately instead of "Put

517
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:27,920
it off, put it off, I'll get to it when."

518
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,200
It's like, "No, I've learned to create time and I make time for it."

519
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,440
And sometimes it's not just once a day.

520
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,680
You can do it two, three times a day.

521
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:41,480
So, so what are some other things that you do besides walks and worship that maybe just

522
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,240
that kind of an everyday getaway type of retreat?

523
00:34:45,240 --> 00:34:48,840
Is there anything else like for me, maybe not every day, but I really like the summertime

524
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:54,560
in general just because for one son is out and it's nicer out than gray Indiana days

525
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,480
and there's a winter, but I really like having campfires in the evening.

526
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:05,000
And a lot of times that that is even just by myself or with, you know, my wife or whatever

527
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:12,000
or family because for me just sitting in front of the fire gets me a chance to rest and relax

528
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:17,920
and, and think about life. You know, it's not, it's a non-hurried time. It's something

529
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,360
out of the ordinary. It's just a time to sit back and relax and just stare at the fire

530
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,920
and, and think. So what are some of the, do you have any other ways that you, that you

531
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:26,920
retreat?

532
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:35,120
Yeah. So on a daily basis, I have a five-year journal, and I'm actually officially of my

533
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:41,360
second one this year. And so at the end of every day, I just write down maybe it's a

534
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:46,440
lesson learned, something I'm grateful for, sometimes something that I had a challenge

535
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:53,200
with. Sometimes it was a bad day. And so what I like about that is it's just two minutes

536
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,200
that just slows me down to just capture my thoughts.

537
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,040
And I just get to be present, you know?

538
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,040
And not just with the Lord, but even just with myself.

539
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,640
It's a way to check in on me.

540
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,680
That's something I do daily.

541
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,160
Things that Juby and I do,

542
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:10,640
it's funny we've been kind of doing this recently

543
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:11,960
ever since we moved here.

544
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,440
We were kind of deprived living in Clarksville, Tennessee,

545
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,040
about an hour north in Nashville.

546
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,920
So we now have a super, all right, let's go.

547
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:19,880
(laughing)

548
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,840
So like you said, like your wife,

549
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,440
I'm off on Fridays and Saturdays.

550
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,580
The Thursday nights is kind of our Fridays.

551
00:36:25,580 --> 00:36:29,900
And, um, do you just love going to just like, hey, can we just walk around

552
00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:34,040
at super target and like 70% of the time we won't even buy anything.

553
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,780
We just like to get out of the house and she just loves target.

554
00:36:37,780 --> 00:36:41,380
And my thing is like, I'll go because I just like being with my wife.

555
00:36:41,380 --> 00:36:42,680
And it's something that makes her happy.

556
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:43,840
Mike, make sure you're happy.

557
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:44,240
Yeah.

558
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:45,800
So that's, that's something we do.

559
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,240
Uh, something we haven't done it yet since we've moved here, but

560
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:49,200
we were in Clarksville.

561
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:50,080
Um, we got.

562
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,200
Okay.

563
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:51,600
Um,

564
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:57,660
And I'm not talking like that, White River after that whole, I'm talking like, laziest

565
00:36:57,660 --> 00:37:02,340
form, like, and you can think of just find a river that just takes us through and we

566
00:37:02,340 --> 00:37:03,340
just do.

567
00:37:03,340 --> 00:37:04,340
Nice.

568
00:37:04,340 --> 00:37:05,340
So we'll do that.

569
00:37:05,340 --> 00:37:10,200
We typically go with friends, which leads me to my next point.

570
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:16,000
As much as an extrovert I do identify as, I have been in the season probably the past

571
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:22,800
two or three years where I'm learning that not all relationships are created equal.

572
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,800
That does not mean that all people are not created equal, but not all relationships fill

573
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,080
me up as other ones do.

574
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:38,800
So on my days off, I'm spending it with people where I don't feel like I have to be on.

575
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,600
And so that's a filter question I ask myself.

576
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,840
So when people ask like, "Hey, you want to hang out in this day and this day?"

577
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:49,280
about how you said your wife protects that day. I'm looking at it through that lens. And I go,

578
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:55,520
"Is me hanging with this person, am I going to feel drained by the end of it? Or am I going to feel

579
00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:03,360
rejuvenated by the end of it?" And so we're very, you and I are very specific on who we spend our

580
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:10,960
time with on our days off specifically. And so that's really helped too, because it's not from

581
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:19,760
this would pro quo standpoint, but can I just be me and not have to basically be on all the time?

582
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:26,160
So that's another thing that I'll do is just I love hanging out. As much as I love being with

583
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:32,000
people, there are specific people I've learned to be more intentional in spending time with.

584
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:38,400
So I'm starting to build deeper roots in community a lot quicker because of that.

585
00:38:38,400 --> 00:39:00,400
Yeah, that's, this is all really great. And now if, if we want to briefly talk, I don't care if you, if you went to or not, but like, going away, like to like spending time all away. What's that look like for you if you're actually going to do like a physical retreat where you're physically spending one, two, three days away from everything else.

586
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:06,960
So for me, like I've done that before, like I said, my parents have a retreat center that

587
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:12,880
they run specifically for that purpose. And I've been there and I've done that. I know it's a

588
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,360
little bit different when you're there with your parents. So like, yeah, and you can still

589
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,520
retreat, but it's definitely different. But you know, I've done it for other things too,

590
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:27,040
where you actually physically go and get away. I find that's good because again, then you're

591
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:33,540
completely out of your normal routine. Because it's not like just a, I'm going to the coffee

592
00:39:33,540 --> 00:39:42,000
shop, but like I'm away from physically for everything that I know. And then I can spend

593
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:48,600
however much time God, I'm feeling God led me, leading me to, to either be in prayer or

594
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,680
studying or reading. So have you done that? And what's that look like for you?

595
00:39:52,680 --> 00:40:00,440
Yeah. So one time I got a chance to visit a monastery and ironically it was January of 2020.

596
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,040
Okay. So two through months before the world shut down, I was like,

597
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,440
I feel like the Lord was trying to tell me something before it all happened.

598
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:14,280
There were three days and man, and it was the first thing is I didn't struggle with it at all.

599
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:22,280
It was something that I just knew my soul needed. So when they brought up the idea of it,

600
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:27,880
I jumped on board quickly. It wasn't like, wait, I can't do what? It's going to be quiet for like two,

601
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:35,000
and I'm, as a matter of fact, oh man, it's crazy. I almost forgot about it. I had to preach

602
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:40,440
three weeks after that, and he had already given me the scripture that he wanted me to preach on.

603
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:48,040
And I had looked at it four or five times, Andy, and I couldn't think of anything, bro. I mean, like,

604
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:56,520
Nothing. And so this is like our last last night and normally when I

605
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:06,760
type drastically instead, I just felt I just felt the Lord basically tell me go to the library

606
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:13,640
and just bring your notebook and pen. I was like, okay, along with my Bible. So I did and looked at

607
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:21,640
the verse two hours, Andy. It's just flood. And ironically, James scripture in Galatians

608
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:26,440
chapter one, I think is verse 13 or 14, 15, somewhere around there. But it's the text

609
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:33,240
where it talks about how Paul had his radical transformation with resurrected Christ. And

610
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:36,300
the book of Acts, it reads it as if like he had this transformation and he immediately

611
00:41:36,300 --> 00:41:40,920
starts preaching the next day. But through Galatians, it talks about how he didn't tell

612
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:49,880
anybody and he spends three years. Man. And solid. Like, like this is Paul. Like the dude,

613
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,040
he would have the first five books of the Old Testament memorized. Man.

614
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,480
What a record. If you know the book and numbers off your head, that's just ridiculous.

615
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:03,080
You're impressive. If you do. Yes, what I'm saying. And so like this dude, I mean,

616
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,480
at a time that would be the equivalent of having like your, your, basically your PhD

617
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,800
or doctorate, you know, in the Old Testament. And this dude goes, I don't know anything.

618
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:18,360
I need a retreat. It's just chill for three years and relearn everything. Basically, I have my PhD

619
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,360
in the Old Testament, but I'm going to go ahead and get my master's in the New Testament and just

620
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:29,880
chill and not kill anybody. And so the Lord just gave me this crazy outline for my entire message.

621
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,760
And so it's funny, he gave me a message about retreating through a retreat.

622
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,400
That's awesome. But it also taught me, so even though that was the first and last time I've

623
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:45,560
done a monastery, it did also teach me how I can find that anywhere. So when we go on vacation,

624
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:52,360
GB and I are typically, we're city people, so we love going to like Chicago. If we do our annual

625
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,800
trips, we usually do beach trips. So if we've done the Bahamas before, and we did Turks and

626
00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:02,520
Caicos another year. And so what I'll do is, if we do have access to our phone, I've just learned

627
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:09,240
to not bring my phone. And so sometimes it's something as simple as just removing or putting

628
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:13,800
anything that you know will be a distraction in the other room. So we're watching a show or a

629
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,880
movie in the living room together. I will purposely put my phone in the other room,

630
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:25,560
just because for me to see it and for it to be an arms length is a trigger for me. It triggers

631
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:30,200
me to pick it up just because I can. Sure. It's there. I've done even small things like that.

632
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:36,280
Right. Right. Same when we go to Target. I'll leave my phone in the glove compartment sometimes

633
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,800
because I just want to be present with my wife. So I've also learned that

634
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:45,080
retreats can be something as going out to a cabin in the woods on the lake,

635
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:49,560
as well as going somewhere in the city. And then we just make intentional time to go somewhere

636
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:56,600
else so we can have a silence. But the better, I guess, way I would say it is,

637
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:03,080
Anything that's going to fuel you. And so I just asked myself that question. Is me doing this going to give me energy?

638
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,880
Is me going here going to fill me up?

639
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:11,160
Um, and if the answer is no, I don't do it. So what could be a retreat for you?

640
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:19,400
May not feel like one for me and vice versa. Sure. Um, so uh, again, I think there's times where everybody needs to go to just

641
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,160
absolute quiet, you know, in silence and be, you know, one with, you know,

642
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,640
nature and creation and everything.

643
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:30,640
But also keep in mind that retreat is the thing that fills you up.

644
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,640
It's the thing that gives you joy.

645
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,640
And if you don't have that, then why are you doing that?

646
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:36,640
- Yeah, do something different.

647
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:37,640
Find something different.

648
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:38,640
- Yeah, exactly.

649
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,640
- Well, Mark, I want to thank you for being on the show.

650
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,640
It's been great.

651
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:44,640
A couple things.

652
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,640
Tell everybody about your podcast,

653
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:49,640
because you have a podcast yourself,

654
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:50,640
and I think it's a great podcast.

655
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,440
And so, make sure that you tell our listeners where they can find you at.

656
00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:00,800
I appreciate it, man. Yeah, it's called the Let's Talk About It podcast.

657
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:07,440
Easiest way, honestly, to find it is just type in my name, which is Mark K. Benton II,

658
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,880
or my wife's name. Apparently, there's a lot of podcasts called Let's Talk About It.

659
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:18,720
But basically, it's just a podcast where our keywords is empower practical and freedom. We

660
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:23,480
We want to empower you to live your life in a way that's very practical through freedom

661
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:29,000
in Christ. And so we've been doing it about two and a half years. It's how you, yeah,

662
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,440
it's been a great, great journey. Also have a YouTube base. So just search my name, Mark

663
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,240
K bent in the second. It'll probably pop up.

664
00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:39,920
Awesome. Well, thanks again for, thanks again for being part of the show tonight. Guys,

665
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:47,120
we would encourage you to go out there, rest in retreat, rejuvenate. You, you really can't

666
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:55,120
be fully you. You can't really be 100% you 100% dad, husband, man, if you're not going

667
00:45:55,120 --> 00:46:00,360
to do this. I know sometimes people think it's it's weird to get away and retreat, but

668
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:07,120
it you honestly can't be yourself without retreating. So no matter what that looks

669
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:14,080
like for you, if it's just a half a day, a day, an hour, definitely go do that. Mark,

670
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,080
Thank you again for being on the show with us.

671
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,080
Man, thank you for having me.

672
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,080
Love you guys.

673
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,080
Shout out to Joel and keep it to the dudes at that pocket.

674
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:23,080
Thanks.

675
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:37,580
[Music]

676
00:46:37,580 --> 00:46:47,580
[BLANK_AUDIO]