On this episode of the Dudes and Dads podcast, we talk with Mark Benton about retreating.
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You're listening to the Dudes and Dads podcast,
a show dedicated to helping men be better dudes and dads
by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling.
And now, here are your hosts, Joel DeMott and Andy Lehman.
Wrong, wrong, that's not Joel DeMott sitting right here next to me.
No, no it's not.
It is none other than Mark Benton, the second who...
What up?
Mark, man, welcome back.
It has been a long time.
We had you back on season three, episode 11, and we were talking about why it's important
to go to church.
And we're talking now about retreating.
So Joel, you know, just so you know, Joel said to me, I asked him if we can record Sunday
and he said, actually, I'm going to be out of town.
And I said, OK, fine.
Do you mind if I invite Mark Vendon to be on and be our co-host?
He might go.
So he's absolutely. So Mark, welcome back to the show.
It's good to have you back on.
If it's been so long, man, thank you so much.
I know I appreciate it, though.
Thank you so much. And listen, shout out to Joel.
As I said, yes, I'm not him.
It's just a few shades darker.
My hair is a little taller, but Joel is still my brother, man.
Yeah, we're still brothers.
Absolutely. I'm glad to be back on here with you.
Yes, definitely.
So, yeah, it's it again.
Last time we talked to you, we were talking about the importance
of going to church. And that was a good episode. I'll link to it in the show notes. If you
guys have not heard it, we were talking a long time ago about why it's important to
go to church. And for those of you who don't know, Mark has been a long time friend. We've
never actually met in person though. But hopefully one day I had the had the goal.
But then you moved down south further south. So yeah, I did a little further south. Yep.
Maybe one day. Yeah, one day.
One day we're in Nashville or Clarksville and then move down here like, it's been nine
months now down in a DFW area, Dallas Fort Worth area. So it's been good.
It's yeah, definitely. So all right guys. So tonight we're actually going to be talking
about retreating. But before we do that though, I want to remind you that support for this
episode comes from Everince Financial, helping individuals and organizations combine faith
and finance through retirement planning, banking and other financial services. More at everince.com.
So, retreating. I know even when I said, "Hey, let's do talk about retreating," you're
just like, "So, you're talking about this?" And I said, "Yeah, we're going to talk a
little bit about what is retreating and how we can do it." So, retreating. I actually
looked up retreating the dictionary and it's in military wise it's withdraw from an enemy
forces as a result of their superior power or after a defeat or in general just an active
moving away especially from something that's difficult, dangerous or disagreeable. So that
happens even in our lives, right? I mean, if you run, run hardcore and you're running your
life just boom, boom, boom, you're going to burn out. And so it's, it, uh, where retreat
is kind of a time to reset, right? It's, it's a time to kind of go and this doesn't have
to be anything big, like, right? I mean, like when I think of retreating, my parents run
a retreat ministry and I, you know, they have people that go away for a couple of days,
come back, you know, that's, that's one type of retreat. But we're, we can also talk about
retreating to when it comes to just the everyday type of things where just kind of getting
out of the ordinary doing what's actually called a pattern interrupt.
So I don't know if you've ever heard that, Mark.
Oh, I like that.
So I say, yeah, it's essentially the idea of doing something different to kind of reset
yourself.
So just doing something out of the ordinary.
And marketers do this a lot too, to get your attention on a TV.
That's why sometimes the commercials are louder or whatever because it's something just different
enough that it's going to catch your attention. And so I think retreating is the same way,
right? I mean, it's something just a little bit different that helps your mind kind of
reset and kind of, you know, you can kind of, it's out of the ordinary.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting you said that because I actually did a funeral earlier
today and got back, got back at a decent time, you know, to the house. And so I was just feeling
a little, really just a little tired. And so my wife was like, why don't you just take a nap
real quick? And I was like, that's a good idea. So I took 40 minute nap earlier. And I woke up
and I was like, Hey, I still got time for dinner and hopped on here with you. But I love what you
You said, Andy, how it's sometimes it's not just the all day thing or the all week thing,
you know, whether it's a vacation and there's 100% of place for that.
Love that you said that it's sometimes it's in the everyday, you know, and I like that
language you use of what are the small interruptions of your normal patterns?
Because I don't take 30 or 40 minutes and I don't believe them.
I just didn't really happen.
Right.
We get busy with our day.
And I find myself going, "I need to do X, Y, and Z."
And next thing I know, I'm just the same thing over and over and over again.
I go to work.
I mean, the nice thing for me right now is I'm actually working from home two days a
week.
And so that's a little bit for me, a different, kind of when we talk about pattern interrupts.
It's something where I'm not always doing the same thing every day.
But there are a lot of times that, especially if I'm really stressed out at work, I'll just
go out and go for a walk, you know, 20 minute walk or whatever. And, and that helps me kind
of retreat and withdraw from the daily stresses. And I use that as a time to, a lot of times
I'll be praying when I walk. So I'm having a conversation with God. Or I'm listening,
sometimes I'm listening to podcasts, but a lot of times I'm just trying to get away
from what's going on at work. And I've used that time to pray. And for me, I like having
a conversation out loud with God. And so that's kind of good on my walk. I may look crazy,
but I'm doing it, right?
So,
Like, no, I, so I want to affirm that because walks with the Lord has become like my go-to
man. I've probably been doing it now. Really, ironically, COVID is the COVID year was like
the year that set that part into motion. Usually it would just be my bonus room, which is fine.
For some people, it's their backyard patio. I would do things similar to it, but I don't
know what it was at the time. Of course, you're locked up for months at a time.
Right.
We would just like, "Okay, let's just take a walk around our neighborhood." We started
doing it. It became like a clean break, basically, to say our day is ending. Because at that
point, almost everything was working from home.
Right.
kind of like, let's implement this thing that kind of just gets us out of, as you said, the norm,
you know, that interrupts the pattern. And bro, almost three years later, like, it's my favorite
thing to do. So I'm with you. I'll be looking crazy witchy, man, if I'm talking out loud to the Lord.
So when you do it, are you doing it separately or are you doing it with your wife? How are you
doing that walk? We'll do both. I do it a lot on my own. I usually try to work out for, I've
I've increased the five times a week.
If I don't feel like working out at all, then I just tell myself, "Hey, then do a mandatory
walk."
And it'll be 30 minutes and sometimes it goes long for an hour.
So I'll do that on my own, just one, not just to have that time with the Lord, but it's
kind of like I usually do something like that on my off days.
So I've made that a part of the rhythm of, I guess you could say, of my Sabbath.
So I'll still probably do, sometimes I even do a 10 to 15 minute walk every other day
just to kind of get out of my office and just walk around and get out of my head.
But I intentionally try to do a 40 minute to an hour walk once a week.
And that's typically on my off days.
So it's kind of like this in depth time where I can just disconnect with whatever is going
on in my own life.
But not just to hear from the Lord, but also just to be.
And I think that's the other thing is that, you know, retreating is, yes, there's a time,
of course, to rest and everything like that, which is 100% part of it. But I also think
about the Psalm 4610 mindset where I can just be still and just know that God is God. So
sometimes it's just the fellowship of just being with Him. And even that, it's like restorative
in its own way.
Sure. Yeah. So I think for us as a family, we've kind of said that Sundays are, well,
I mean, again, my wife working in the church is a little bit different.
But she, you know, we've come across, we've said basically that
some days are going to be our day for relaxing and doing the things we want to do.
And so that that may mean there's dishes sitting on the counter,
but we don't have to do them, right?
We're giving ourself grace to say, that's OK, we don't need to do that.
We're going to retreat.
And a lot of times that looks like we're just staying home after church, you know,
and and we're, you know, maybe watching a movie, we're resting.
We're doing things that we don't feel guilty about doing because we've set that day aside.
Now, for her in the church, that's not her 100% rest day because she's still working
that morning, right?
So, she mixed her to protect that and she actually has Friday off.
And so, she tries to protect that and get away or be home alone.
It's harder in the summer with the kids, you know, but she tries to find something where
she can get away and have some Sabbath, if you will.
So that way she can retreat away from her busy everyday schedule.
Yeah.
Well, I love that you said how your wife does her part to protect it.
So the thing about having a retreat, whether it's a daily rhythm or a weekly rhythm, monthly
rhythm, you have to plan it.
Because no one's going to do it for you.
I love that you said, so if the dishes are there, we don't have to do it.
Right.
Yes, I love that.
have made an intentional decision ahead of time to go, "Hey, on this day and this time,
we're not doing it."
So, I just realized I didn't answer the other part of your question.
So I have my time where I do my walks just me and the Lord.
And then they were telling me, "Hey, babe, let's go to the park."
And we, Juvie and I have some of our best in-depth conversations on walks.
That's good.
There's something about just disconnecting from...
I can't get off that term you use, man.
the interrupted patterns. It's just something about doing that. It's not just idle chit-chat,
but we'll dream together. We'll talk through, okay, what is the next step to kind of get
closer to the dream? What do you feel like the Lord is telling you in your life? And
it's interesting how we'll be in different parts of our own personal devotion or walk
with the Lord, yet it still intersects. Oh, yeah.
You know? Yeah. But that happens in our retreat of just taking walks. You know?
Well, I think too that walks are a good thing because you really don't have anything else
to do as you're walking. I mean, yes, you have to walk for traffic. You don't want to
get hit, right? But I mean, you don't have anything else to do. You're not scrolling
on your phone. I mean, yeah, you could be listening to a podcast or whatever, but your
attention is right there. So whether it be you and your wife or you and God, like there's
that one-on-one-ness there. And so there's an intentionality that we have that makes
it so that we're focused, that we're not distracted. And so yeah, walks are a really
great thing to do that.
Yeah. Yeah. Granted, I still have my moment where I just sit in my living room, you know,
and sit in stillness, of course, where I'm praying and I'm sitting, I'll even posture
my body, sometimes I'll sit upright just to kind of let my body know that, "God, I'm
here for you."
Sometimes it's even to tell my literal mind of, "Mark, just relax."
Just be where your feet are planted type thing.
So how do you do that?
How do you when you're sitting in your living room?
For me, I find it tough to unplug because if I'm sitting there, I can put my phone away
and that's fine.
I either fall asleep because I'm sitting there, which again, that's fine.
I mean, there are times for that.
But if you're trying to be intentional and sitting in stillness, it's hard to keep our
minds focused sometimes.
So how do you do that?
Yeah.
So I do want to firmly acknowledge that I don't have kids.
So it's all the dads and the parents.
I'm not going to out like I know what it's like as I don't, but I did know I do notice
for me, even if I'm around with the like, if I'm on vacation with a group of people
or something like that, if I have to do it first thing in the morning, or I'll even,
so even going back to like taking a walk, if I find a bench or something, I'll do the
same thing.
I'll find a bench to sit down and one of two things happened.
Either I'll listen to worship and I'll listen to the words in the song.
sometimes I'll sing it, sometimes I won't. But I allow the words to basically focus my mind.
And to your point, so when I, so I admit when I'm distracted, that's the first thing I guess I
would say is that it's when I know I'm distracted, I go, okay, I know that my mind is distracted.
And I start naming what all the distractions are. And then once I'm done naming it, I'll put on a
worship song because worship has the beauty of worship is that it has a way of just taking your
mind off of the distractions. Anything else that's going on in your life and focusing on the Lord.
And so in order to hear from him or even just be present with him, I have to focus my mind on him,
which is hard to do if I'm distracted. So I just own when I am distracted. I name it,
I share it, and then by listening to a song that helps me to direct my mind so that I can be
receptive now to just listen.
Got you.
Sometimes it's one song.
Sometimes it's two or three.
It just depends.
Some days are more challenging than others.
And it doesn't even have to be because you're going through a hard season.
You might just might be cluttered in all the right place.
But I've learned to get myself like that permission of if after one song,
but I feel like I need to sit there for a little bit.
I'm like, okay, let me throw in another worship and I'll keep going.
What I like about walks, which is kind of also how it started is that if I don't
feel like I can focus my mind by sitting, by sometimes I just work it out, literally.
And there's actually a science into saying like what that you can physically work out
stress, you can physically work out worries and doubts and all that.
You don't have to be Shaun T insanity or something like that, which is why like a walk is actually
very beneficial.
At the same time, probably 10 or 15 minutes into a walk, I remind myself, hey, take a
seat. And I'll just sit down, whether I find a bench or I'll come back to, you know, the
house and just sit and stillness. So, um, worst of it is a huge piece of it, uh, that
helps me to just kind of focus my mind. But I'm just reminded like you have to focus your
mind in order to be present with the Lord and hear from Him. But we focus it by giving
ourselves permission to label what are the things that are distracting.
That's really good. I found for myself recently I've come across a
Subgenre of music called lo-fi. It's like kind of chill. Yes
And so like I've been listening to this lo-fi worship and it's great because it doesn't have music in it
But it's kind of like it reminds me. I mean doesn't have music. It doesn't have words in it
Yeah, so like I find myself like
Actually concentrating on the lyrics then because I have to recall them from my mind not just listen to what's being said to me
It's more of coming from my heart then because it's coming.
I'm having to recall those out of memory.
And then the thing I like about Lo-Fi is for one, it's super chill and like, yeah.
And like, I like it because there is imperfections in it.
And so it reminds me that not everything is perfect.
And so that's, I like listening to that.
So if you've not ever checked that out, check out some Lo-Fi worship because it's kind of good.
Bro, there is not one week that goes by and sometimes my wife loves it and hates it. There's
not one week that goes by where I don't play a lo-fi, glass chill hop, playlist.
That's awesome.
And by the way, it's beautiful actually if you're trying to go to sleep and you can't sleep.
Hmm.
The same thing, your mind is everywhere. I'll throw on my AirPods on one side and I'll just play
chill hop. And there's something about just listening to it that just eases my mind and
brings me into sleep. And now I'm like, I mean, which is cool because we talked about it, like,
how much, how much does scripture talk about like, think on the higher things? You know, meditate,
you know, keep your thoughts on the higher things. And so, music, man, I'm so glad you said chill
hot. Like that's, I've been in it for like five years now. That's awesome. Yeah, I just recently
came across it. So I'm loving it. So the other thing, some of the other things that I like doing
to kind of just do again, like the pattern interrupts and things that are not necessarily
big giant go away and retreat because those have their place and we can talk about those
too.
But a lot of times those are harder because they take a bigger plan.
They take something that's going to take a longer time to go, "Okay, I'm going to get
away for these three days so I need to clear my schedule."
But there's a lot of other things.
So for me, a lot of times I like going away to the coffee shop.
So for me, I can chill out.
I can actually do a lot more studying and a lot more concentrating on the word.
If I'm at a coffee shop, I can sit there even if there's distractions around me.
I can study more there than at home because for me at home, my mind's running 100 different
places.
It's thinking about what I need to do next.
It's all this stuff.
But if I'm at the coffee shop and usually have a really good cup of coffee, and I can
get away. And now sometimes it's hard because you'll find people that you know that come
into the coffee shop. But for the most part, even if it's just like a quick, like, "Hey,
how's it going?" Like, they leave you alone. And so for me, that's one of the ways that
I like to get away and study and retreat, if you will.
Do you find like your ability to focus increases by, I guess, retreating from a spot that's
like familiar? Do you feel like that's what it is for you?
I think for me, yeah, it's something out of the ordinary again. So like, I don't, even
if it's a familiar coffee shop, you know, because there's several different coffee shops
in my town. And even if it's a familiar coffee shop, just the getting away and intentionality,
I think, it's being intentional about getting, getting away and being able to stop what I'm
doing helps. Yeah, something that you said, it kind of reminded me of even in Jesus' ministry.
Like, so for example, when he fed the 5,000, which really was probably closer like 15,000,
instead, you know, 5,000 men, it's not including wives and kids and all that. But what you think
about like, this is one of the greatest miracles that we hear. And the text actually says that
when he was done, it says that he went away to a quiet place. And so there's just this,
and that's not the first time. There's a lot of other times where when you're reading throughout
the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, where before Jesus does a miracle or after,
there's a lot of language that says things such as he came from a quiet place or went away into a
quiet place. And what I love about that is that it's so easy to use, you know, Jesus as the golden
the standard of like, he worked hard, you know, he was willing to be in convenience,
he worked his tail off, which is true. But if we're going to use Jesus as an example,
let's go all the way because he also rested very well. And so I just love that even in
the biggest moments of his ministry, it was either always followed up with or it was led
out of a posture of retreat. And what I'm hearing even from you is that you said like,
leave a place to basically disconnect, but really you're disconnecting with the mindset
of wanting to reintegrate back into the world.
The retreat is actually filling us up to do more of whatever the Lord's called us to do,
wherever that is.
It doesn't matter if it's the church, corporate America, or wherever that is.
I think about is that when unchecked, going into retreating and quiet time can also easily
turn into isolation.
Okay.
It's been sweet talking about that.
Yeah.
So, first of all, and I'll use myself on the opposite extreme.
So because I'm an extrovert, I easily connect with people.
And so the way I recharge is through community.
But community unchecked can lead to co-dependency.
And in the same sense, for an introvert, they recharge by being on their own.
So because they naturally recharge by being on their own, they're natural at being in
solitude.
But when unchecked, solitude can turn into isolation.
So in the same sense, we all need community.
We all need solitude, but codependency and isolation is at the other extreme of that.
So if I'm retreating just to not so much, yes, we have to escape from the world, but
if I'm escaping only to basically keep everyone at bay and distant, not to reintegrate, I would
argue you're probably not looking in for solitude.
You're probably looking for isolation.
And so there are times where I know that probably I would say 55, 45 now, 55 extrovert, 45 introvert.
even in my extrovertness, I can even recognize within my own soul where I'm like, if I'm
spending time with someone, I've been doing it because I really value and desire the community
or am I starving to find and fall into that line of co-dependency? Meaning, am I trying to find my
value in someone/something else outside of the Lord? And so when I do feel that nudge,
that gives me permission to take a time out and just retreat and step into, as Jesus said,
to go away to a quiet place so I can just be with the Lord. And I think that's the other thing.
Sometimes it's not always just about getting something. Not that that won't come, but sometimes
it's just being present. So like, let's be real, how many times are you with your wife, Andy?
You don't have to say a word, but there's something about just being in the same room.
Right. Yeah, just spending time together.
Correct. Correct. And so sometimes that's what the retreat is. It's not that you won't receive
something out of it, but sometimes the gift is the presence. Sometimes the gift is just the being.
But do we believe that? Do we trust that in the retreat when I'm present with people who love
me? And I was hanging out with one of my buddies because I've been here nine months now. And when
we were driving away from lunch, there was a moment in the car where we were quiet for two minutes.
And Craig says, "I love that we're at that point in our friendship where no one has to speak."
That's awesome. And I was just like, "Dang, it was just a great, beautiful moment of...
It was kind of like a moment for a treat. Here we are working together, but there's just two
minutes as we're driving from lunch back to our office of just like, "This is nice." And no one's
anything, but it was just the gift wasn't just being with each other. Yeah. And I think definitely
I think that that can... That happens when we spend time with the Lord too. A lot of times,
even if I'm just not necessarily expecting something, but I'm reading or I'm worshiping or
whatever that looks like, there's a recharge that happens afterwards where you're ready to get back
into the world, you're ready to go, you're ready to like just that time away has given you energy.
I'm for the most part an extroverted person too, but it's interesting. I find time
like alone, especially intentional time with God, like is recharging for me too. Even though I'm
an extrovert person and I'd rather hang out all day with people than be alone. But I find that
that helps when I spend that time with God. Because I think it's interesting because I think as an
extrovert, spending time with God is hard to do with people. I mean, you can do it with people.
Don't get me wrong. You can. I mean, especially like, you know, think about a good worship service
where you've had like your corporate, you're doing corporate worship and obviously that's not alone.
You're still singly worshiping God, but you're worshiping God together with everybody else.
So that, that, I guess, as an extrovert, you can, you can use that too. But, but even for me, like
the time alone is more, I find that, I don't know how to say that. It's, it's...
There's something rich that takes place where it's just you and the Lord is what you're saying.
Yeah. Yeah. I find energy in both, but I think that's... Those are the times and the moments
that I get more clarity on his calling on my life. Whereas, I was like, "The worship services are good,
and I'm worshiping God, but I don't necessarily get something back." Again, I don't want to
I want to sound like I'm saying I want to have to have something back.
You're good.
But there's, God doesn't speak to me in the same way when we're in the corporate worship
than when I'm alone with him, if that makes sense.
Andy, there are, it's funny because the reason why I kind of say like I'm probably 55, 45,
now I start to question that I'm actually learning leaning more towards 50/50 because
The times I get with God are just so, they're so sweet.
And, and here's what it is now, because I've learned and I'm still learning
the art of retreating.
It's not something where I go, I got to spend time with the Lord.
Andy, I look forward to.
And I equally feel it when I don't do it now.
What's that look like for you when you don't like what?
What's that look like for you?
Yeah. So there are five.
I remember, see if I can remember them all.
So one of my buddies, his name is Derek.
He was our campus pastor, but he gave me a few words and I'm trying to look it up as
I talk, but I remember some of them.
But one of the things he said was that there are certain words that he uses that he kind
of keeps as a filter.
And so one of them is balanced, centered, grounded, source.
And then there was, there was one more.
But Nia's to say, when he goes through those words, he just simply asks himself, "Where
do I feel unbalanced today?"
Here we go.
Just found it.
Spirit is a verse.
So, spirit, source, center, balance, and ground.
So spirit meaning, how is your spirit feeling right now?
Because there's your spirit, and then there's the Holy Spirit.
And so, does your spirit fit?
Does just your inner person just feel just off?
Are you stressed?
Did you wake up with anxious worries, doubts?
Just how is your inner spirit doing?
The second one is source.
What it means by that is that all life comes from Christ because he is the source, but
do we acknowledge the fact that Jesus Christ is the source?
He is my life.
Maybe my anxiousness is coming from the fact that I'm trying to be at the source of something
instead of trusting God to be at the source of something.
The third one is center.
I love this one.
is the center of all creation for John 1 verse 1 through 5, but asking questions such as,
"What are you speaking to the Lord? What are you releasing to the Lord? And then what are you receiving
from the Lord?" But it's all centered basically around him. And I love that the idea of God
being centered is that it gives us permission to share it with its a partnership. It's like,
I guess we live or lie committed to him,
but the Lord wants to hear from you.
Even the things that you don't think he wants to hear,
he wants to hear that.
So because I can't receive from God, Andy,
if I'm not willing to even open myself up
and share with him what's in me.
So I don't have to come to God with these,
with this perfect, beautiful dissertation
of what it is I want.
I can come to him messy.
So what am I releasing so that I can actually receive?
Yeah. Well, I think, like, as our relationships, you know, with our wives,
too, like, if you were just to go in there and have like a perfect conversation with her,
like, that's not going to be a good, like, she's not going to be able to know you well,
you know, like, even though she may know you well, because she's been married to you for however long,
but, but if you're not willing to open up and say, this sucks, or I had a bad day,
or this is what's really bothering me.
You can't, she can't speak into you.
And I think the same thing with God.
Like if we're not willing to go to him and say,
this is hard, like what I'm dealing with right now is,
is it sucks.
And like sometimes it's, you know, I don't know that I see you here.
Like if we're not willing to open up and say those things with him,
it's hard for him to show himself to us sometimes.
Because we're closing.
Honestly, Andy, I really believe that's part of the reason why many of us are probably
exhausted.
Because we're not honest about where we're at.
As if it's a crime to admit to the people that we love and to a God who loves us and
desires us to go, "I'm not doing good."
Yeah.
Like, I'm just off, you know?
And the other one is balance and ground.
idea of balance, he actually challenged me with this, my friend Derek, he said basically,
"What if balance is not something necessarily to create?"
So, when I think of balance, I think of a juggling act, or even a jump rope when you're
a kid.
They have those big jump ropes and you jump in, and what are you doing?
You're trying to find the timing.
So, you see the kids kind of lean back and forth for a few jumps and then they jump in.
But he said, "What if..."
The other way to, of course, to generate the jump rope is if you're just turning it yourself,
like single-handedly.
But his point is, too many times we look at balance as that, as something is like a jump
rope where we're the ones generating the energy.
We have to find the rhythm and the pace when we just keep going.
But what if balance is like when you were a kid, when one person has one end, the other
person has the other in and it's your job to get in step with the balance of whatever
is going on in that season of life.
But that comes from the Lord.
So instead of me going, "God, I'm trying to balance all these things," these are all
the things that are on my playground.
"Please help me balance and maintain what it is you've already created."
Because there's a balance in the rhythm to, I mean, literally from the moon and the stars
and just the rotation of the plant.
His creation is already balanced.
So it's just, so sometimes what, instead of trying to create balance, maybe it's not our
job so much to create it, but it's our job to discern the balance of what's ever in place.
And then the last one is a ground, like where am I?
So if the goal is to be grounded, then maybe the question you have to ask yourself is where
am I ungrounded?
I like to ask anchored, I think, you know, like a ship.
But the ship can move back and forth on the surface.
But if it's anchored, it's not going to drift up.
So when I think of, Jibrila asked me probably about three weeks ago and she said, "You doing
all right?"
And I was like, "I feel unanchored today."
And it was nothing like, again, we're in a great season in our life, but it was just
had a lot going on just that specific week.
And she looked at me and she said, "Have you spent time with Lauren?"
I said, "I have, but I've not spent time listening to him."
Oh.
Yeah.
Exactly.
(laughing)
And actually, of course, when I said,
I did not make time to listen to him.
- Mm.
- That's what I said.
- Gotcha.
- So in other words, I've worshiped, I've shared,
I've emptied myself, I've vented, I've gone to him,
but I did not create time to just shut up
and just be present with him and just listen.
And so I decided to say it, going back to what I said earlier,
like, yes, there's a time to share it, to grieve it,
to feel it, to let the Lord know.
But at some point too, I also have to create time
to just hear him and let the Lord know,
like God, I'm uncentered in this.
I'm not anchored here and I need your help to get me anchored.
So yeah, so those are things
that's really, really helped me to do that.
I just pay attention to, here's the deal,
your body talks to you, just like how it's physically.
The problem is we ignore it, just like we do physically.
- Yep, yep.
So, when I feel in a non-settlement spiritually, mentally, emotionally, I'm just learning to
own that and I'm quicker to identify it and lean into it immediately instead of "Put
it off, put it off, I'll get to it when."
It's like, "No, I've learned to create time and I make time for it."
And sometimes it's not just once a day.
You can do it two, three times a day.
So, so what are some other things that you do besides walks and worship that maybe just
that kind of an everyday getaway type of retreat?
Is there anything else like for me, maybe not every day, but I really like the summertime
in general just because for one son is out and it's nicer out than gray Indiana days
and there's a winter, but I really like having campfires in the evening.
And a lot of times that that is even just by myself or with, you know, my wife or whatever
or family because for me just sitting in front of the fire gets me a chance to rest and relax
and, and think about life. You know, it's not, it's a non-hurried time. It's something
out of the ordinary. It's just a time to sit back and relax and just stare at the fire
and, and think. So what are some of the, do you have any other ways that you, that you
retreat?
Yeah. So on a daily basis, I have a five-year journal, and I'm actually officially of my
second one this year. And so at the end of every day, I just write down maybe it's a
lesson learned, something I'm grateful for, sometimes something that I had a challenge
with. Sometimes it was a bad day. And so what I like about that is it's just two minutes
that just slows me down to just capture my thoughts.
And I just get to be present, you know?
And not just with the Lord, but even just with myself.
It's a way to check in on me.
That's something I do daily.
Things that Juby and I do,
it's funny we've been kind of doing this recently
ever since we moved here.
We were kind of deprived living in Clarksville, Tennessee,
about an hour north in Nashville.
So we now have a super, all right, let's go.
(laughing)
So like you said, like your wife,
I'm off on Fridays and Saturdays.
The Thursday nights is kind of our Fridays.
And, um, do you just love going to just like, hey, can we just walk around
at super target and like 70% of the time we won't even buy anything.
We just like to get out of the house and she just loves target.
And my thing is like, I'll go because I just like being with my wife.
And it's something that makes her happy.
Mike, make sure you're happy.
Yeah.
So that's, that's something we do.
Uh, something we haven't done it yet since we've moved here, but
we were in Clarksville.
Um, we got.
Okay.
Um,
And I'm not talking like that, White River after that whole, I'm talking like, laziest
form, like, and you can think of just find a river that just takes us through and we
just do.
Nice.
So we'll do that.
We typically go with friends, which leads me to my next point.
As much as an extrovert I do identify as, I have been in the season probably the past
two or three years where I'm learning that not all relationships are created equal.
That does not mean that all people are not created equal, but not all relationships fill
me up as other ones do.
So on my days off, I'm spending it with people where I don't feel like I have to be on.
And so that's a filter question I ask myself.
So when people ask like, "Hey, you want to hang out in this day and this day?"
about how you said your wife protects that day. I'm looking at it through that lens. And I go,
"Is me hanging with this person, am I going to feel drained by the end of it? Or am I going to feel
rejuvenated by the end of it?" And so we're very, you and I are very specific on who we spend our
time with on our days off specifically. And so that's really helped too, because it's not from
this would pro quo standpoint, but can I just be me and not have to basically be on all the time?
So that's another thing that I'll do is just I love hanging out. As much as I love being with
people, there are specific people I've learned to be more intentional in spending time with.
So I'm starting to build deeper roots in community a lot quicker because of that.
Yeah, that's, this is all really great. And now if, if we want to briefly talk, I don't care if you, if you went to or not, but like, going away, like to like spending time all away. What's that look like for you if you're actually going to do like a physical retreat where you're physically spending one, two, three days away from everything else.
So for me, like I've done that before, like I said, my parents have a retreat center that
they run specifically for that purpose. And I've been there and I've done that. I know it's a
little bit different when you're there with your parents. So like, yeah, and you can still
retreat, but it's definitely different. But you know, I've done it for other things too,
where you actually physically go and get away. I find that's good because again, then you're
completely out of your normal routine. Because it's not like just a, I'm going to the coffee
shop, but like I'm away from physically for everything that I know. And then I can spend
however much time God, I'm feeling God led me, leading me to, to either be in prayer or
studying or reading. So have you done that? And what's that look like for you?
Yeah. So one time I got a chance to visit a monastery and ironically it was January of 2020.
Okay. So two through months before the world shut down, I was like,
I feel like the Lord was trying to tell me something before it all happened.
There were three days and man, and it was the first thing is I didn't struggle with it at all.
It was something that I just knew my soul needed. So when they brought up the idea of it,
I jumped on board quickly. It wasn't like, wait, I can't do what? It's going to be quiet for like two,
and I'm, as a matter of fact, oh man, it's crazy. I almost forgot about it. I had to preach
three weeks after that, and he had already given me the scripture that he wanted me to preach on.
And I had looked at it four or five times, Andy, and I couldn't think of anything, bro. I mean, like,
Nothing. And so this is like our last last night and normally when I
type drastically instead, I just felt I just felt the Lord basically tell me go to the library
and just bring your notebook and pen. I was like, okay, along with my Bible. So I did and looked at
the verse two hours, Andy. It's just flood. And ironically, James scripture in Galatians
chapter one, I think is verse 13 or 14, 15, somewhere around there. But it's the text
where it talks about how Paul had his radical transformation with resurrected Christ. And
the book of Acts, it reads it as if like he had this transformation and he immediately
starts preaching the next day. But through Galatians, it talks about how he didn't tell
anybody and he spends three years. Man. And solid. Like, like this is Paul. Like the dude,
he would have the first five books of the Old Testament memorized. Man.
What a record. If you know the book and numbers off your head, that's just ridiculous.
You're impressive. If you do. Yes, what I'm saying. And so like this dude, I mean,
at a time that would be the equivalent of having like your, your, basically your PhD
or doctorate, you know, in the Old Testament. And this dude goes, I don't know anything.
I need a retreat. It's just chill for three years and relearn everything. Basically, I have my PhD
in the Old Testament, but I'm going to go ahead and get my master's in the New Testament and just
chill and not kill anybody. And so the Lord just gave me this crazy outline for my entire message.
And so it's funny, he gave me a message about retreating through a retreat.
That's awesome. But it also taught me, so even though that was the first and last time I've
done a monastery, it did also teach me how I can find that anywhere. So when we go on vacation,
GB and I are typically, we're city people, so we love going to like Chicago. If we do our annual
trips, we usually do beach trips. So if we've done the Bahamas before, and we did Turks and
Caicos another year. And so what I'll do is, if we do have access to our phone, I've just learned
to not bring my phone. And so sometimes it's something as simple as just removing or putting
anything that you know will be a distraction in the other room. So we're watching a show or a
movie in the living room together. I will purposely put my phone in the other room,
just because for me to see it and for it to be an arms length is a trigger for me. It triggers
me to pick it up just because I can. Sure. It's there. I've done even small things like that.
Right. Right. Same when we go to Target. I'll leave my phone in the glove compartment sometimes
because I just want to be present with my wife. So I've also learned that
retreats can be something as going out to a cabin in the woods on the lake,
as well as going somewhere in the city. And then we just make intentional time to go somewhere
else so we can have a silence. But the better, I guess, way I would say it is,
Anything that's going to fuel you. And so I just asked myself that question. Is me doing this going to give me energy?
Is me going here going to fill me up?
Um, and if the answer is no, I don't do it. So what could be a retreat for you?
May not feel like one for me and vice versa. Sure. Um, so uh, again, I think there's times where everybody needs to go to just
absolute quiet, you know, in silence and be, you know, one with, you know,
nature and creation and everything.
But also keep in mind that retreat is the thing that fills you up.
It's the thing that gives you joy.
And if you don't have that, then why are you doing that?
- Yeah, do something different.
Find something different.
- Yeah, exactly.
- Well, Mark, I want to thank you for being on the show.
It's been great.
A couple things.
Tell everybody about your podcast,
because you have a podcast yourself,
and I think it's a great podcast.
And so, make sure that you tell our listeners where they can find you at.
I appreciate it, man. Yeah, it's called the Let's Talk About It podcast.
Easiest way, honestly, to find it is just type in my name, which is Mark K. Benton II,
or my wife's name. Apparently, there's a lot of podcasts called Let's Talk About It.
But basically, it's just a podcast where our keywords is empower practical and freedom. We
We want to empower you to live your life in a way that's very practical through freedom
in Christ. And so we've been doing it about two and a half years. It's how you, yeah,
it's been a great, great journey. Also have a YouTube base. So just search my name, Mark
K bent in the second. It'll probably pop up.
Awesome. Well, thanks again for, thanks again for being part of the show tonight. Guys,
we would encourage you to go out there, rest in retreat, rejuvenate. You, you really can't
be fully you. You can't really be 100% you 100% dad, husband, man, if you're not going
to do this. I know sometimes people think it's it's weird to get away and retreat, but
it you honestly can't be yourself without retreating. So no matter what that looks
like for you, if it's just a half a day, a day, an hour, definitely go do that. Mark,
Thank you again for being on the show with us.
Man, thank you for having me.
Love you guys.
Shout out to Joel and keep it to the dudes at that pocket.
Thanks.
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