Hey, it's Aaron. This week on the pod, Val and I pick apart the networks of Christians, including the Dominionist Spokane Church on Fire Ministries that organized the wild event in Seattle last Saturday where 23 protestors were arrested and is having ripple effects across the world of Christian nationalism. Free Range, a co-production of KYRS and Range Media this week. Well, this is Aaron, and this week Val and I have the studio. We're gonna talk about the latest controversy in the world of Christian nationalism, which took the form of an event in Seattle on Saturday that a Spokane Church helped to organize. It was a stop on a national tour I reported on earlier this week for our partner Faves News, but it's a developing story and it's moving fast. There's a lot happening. Um. We do know, uh, a little bit about what happened on Saturday, and here's the headline. 23 protestors of the event were re were arrested by Seattle Police after they were accused of assaulting event goers and police. There's a lot of video out there of this event, which was at held at Cal Anderson Park and Capitol Hill because Christian nationalists are known as being very media savvy, using that talent to document these worship events, lavishly across social media platforms, creating propaganda to vilify, leftist protestors, and queer people. None of it clearly shows the specific allegations, which included an. A quote unquote, Antifa protestor holding a knife to the throat of a young worshiper. And protesters lobbying balloons filled with ate worshipers are accurate, but the Christians are flooding media spaces, mostly one, mostly ones run by other Christians to portray protesters of their rally as sort of demon possessed violent criminals. What is clear in the video is that the police mostly bicycle, bicycle cops dragged protestors across the grass in the park and pushed their knees into their backs, arresting them to be booked into the King County jail. The arrest took place kind of like over the course of the afternoon between, uh, noon and about five 30. Um, and the event had to be shut down because, um, just because of the, the, the number of arrests that, uh, police made. Yeah. So, um. I have a few questions 'cause I have been a little bit outta the loop, um, working on, um, some fundraising for range. Yeah. Um, and Val was tired this morning. I was so tired from all of that work, that extra work. Um, but I have some questions 'cause I have seen like videos of this event, um, on like TikTok and stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, I was just telling you hedge about, um, Hannah Craig, who was a former reporter, um, of the stranger in Seattle and is now an independent journalist, um, for her own, uh. News outlet called the Burner. Um, and so I follow her on TikTok and so she went and tried to cover that event. Um, so I only know a very little bit about this. And to be clear, I was not at the event. Yes. Um, so I only know what I've seen on, on Media. So a quick question. Um, I know you covered this for faves, um, 'cause we you have a partnership with them where you, um, do some, like more religion, uh, religion based coverage. Yes. Um, for them. What made you cover this or look into this event or, or follow it I guess? Well, it has a direct tie to the Inland Northwest. Mm-hmm. Um, and that tie is, uh, match Hays Church on Fire Ministries, which I mm-hmm. Write a good bit about. Um, Matt. Oh yeah, you go, go for it. Pastor Shea is a former state legislator who, um, was kind of ousted from his caucus. Mm-hmm. The Republican caucus, which he led, um, up until 2020, um, for several years. Uh, after he was publicly accused of domestic terrorism. After investigators found he had helped, uh, militia groups to, uh, occupy the Mallard Na, national Wildlife Refuge, which is a bird sanctuary in Oregon, in Harney County. Um, and he's, he's, he's, he's known, he's, he's not that well known on the national stage. Mm-hmm. Like, like the average person wouldn't know who he is, but, um, people who follow Christian nationalism and it, this, his particular distillation of it, dominion, which we'll discuss in a minute mm-hmm. Um, as being kind of. Experts call him one of the most dangerous figures in that world. Mm-hmm. Um, because he has a lot of militia ties and he, um, has written some most dangerous predators. Sorry. That's what popped into my head. He, he, um, he, he wrote, he basically designed a government program to, to take over, um, communities in the Inland Northwest, um, in, in, in including creating his own constitution that's dedicated to Jesus Christ and collapses the separation between church and state and established an, it's an explicitly Christian, uh, society. Is this like a localized version of like project 2025, but like worse? It's, yeah. I would say that it's, it's, it. It dwells along the same lines. Lines mm-hmm. As project 2025, which was the, um, the kind of like guiding document mm-hmm. For, um, everything that the Trump administration is doing right now eroding queer rights. Right. Um, doing during, oh, sorry. During the, uh, election season or, or the campaign season, Trump did deny that he knew anything about Project 2025. Right. He, he did, but it's pretty, if you go read the document, it's pretty clear that his policy, um, regime is, is following that document very closely. Yeah. There's a website that's like Project 2025 tracker.com or something like that. That's like ears where we're at in this thing. Oh, really? Yeah. I need to, yeah. I, I've never seen that. Yeah. I need to, I need to get into that. I mean, it's like run by like, uh, you know. Like, not by like the people of Project 2020. It's run by like a, you know, watchdog, watchdog group. But, um, yeah, that's, anyways, but yeah, so, so Shea's program and this, these events took place in 2016 and they were only revealed, um, in kind of like 20 19, 20 20. Oh. Um, and they were, they were broke by the, the journalist Jason Wilson of The Guardian. Um, and one of the documents they uncovered said that if the communities that, uh, Shay wanted to turn Christian didn't go along with his project, um, it was biblical to kill all males in that community. Wow. Um, which tracks pretty well with some, you know, fire and brimstone, old Testament principles. I think there's some passages in, um, the first five books of the Bible about that. Um, so. Shea runs a church on Fire Ministries. Mm-hmm. It's on Pacific Avenue in downtown. Mm-hmm. Um, and they, uh, they held, uh, a promotional event for this, um, for this event in Seattle on March 2nd, um, with Jenny Donnelly, who's, who's the person who's one of the two people who are running the tour. Um, it's called the, the Mayday Tour. The Mayday, uh, the Mayday USA tour. Um, and they, Shea and, and Donnelly are well known for appearing together on mm-hmm. Shea's radio show and Donnelley's, well known for showing up at Onfi Ministries multiple times in the last. Two or three years. Um, she's the protect our kids lady. Yeah. Don't mess with our kids or don't mess our kids, right? Mm-hmm. That, uh, fun fact, uh, I get to see all of our analytics on our website and, uh, every few months when one of these types of events happens. Um. W like we get a big spike in our search traffic for people searching, don't mess with our kids. Um, and uh, and it it, 'cause we wrote a story about, uh, Nadine Ward word, uh, posing next to somebody with that shirt on. Yeah. The former Mayo spoke of Spokane. Yeah. During, during the campaign. Yeah. So that phrase and strip club near me are like two of our most random, but um, uh, fruitful search result things for our website. Sorry, strip club near me is unrelated. Totally. People, people are looking for Aaron Seller's coverage of of the um, no, they're looking for the community. They're looking for a strip club near me, but they're finding the Aaron story about why there's no strip clubs in Spokane. Uh, sorry. That is a small digression. It's okay. Um, and so, yeah, so, um. So, so Nadine Woodward appeared in during the 2023 mayoral campaign, which she lost mm-hmm. Um, to Lisa Brown in Spokane, uh, next to a person who was wearing a don't mess with our kids T-shirt. Mm-hmm. Um, and social media kind of went wild about it because, uh, don't Mess with our kids is it's a, it's a really virulently it's like dog whistle, right. Anti queer. It kind, it's like a dog whistle, right? It's, it's, it basically asserts that, um, schools are in indoctrinating children to be queer and, um, it, it seeks to eliminate, uh, gender affirming care for mm-hmm. Specifically for children. But they, they also want to eliminate any, they wanna eliminate it for adults too. Um, I. But it's, it's framed around children because mm-hmm. Children are, are really convenient demographic to, um, to champion, right? Mm-hmm. Um, especially if they're not born yet. It's also, sorry. Well, and it, it's also, um, very focused on abortion. Mm-hmm. It seeks to end, um, it end abortion and gender affirming care for, um, for trans children. Mm-hmm. Um, there's actually something I was gonna talk about later in the show, but I, I think it's appropriate to bring it up now. Sure. This movement originated in Peru. Wow. Um, and it's specifically the don't mess with our kids movement or, yeah. So there were evangelical churches in Peru who were opposed to that, to the then education ministers, um, like. You know, queer affirming, queer accepting policies. And they staged this really massive movement that essentially got the education minister ousted and, and the president of Peru. Um, wow. And they, uh, have tried to spread that, that movement all over the world, including here. And Jenny Donnelly has taken up the mantle of that. Mm-hmm. And they have a declaration, it's called The Don't Mess With our Kids' Declaration. I should read a little bit, uh, real quick. I have a question about these, uh, Peruvian Christians. Are they like, um, Peruvian, or are they like, you know, like Christian people from the US who have decided to move to Peru? There's a, there's a really strong, um, there's a really strong. Evangelical movement in Peru. Okay. And it's among Native Peruvians. Okay. Good. Mm-hmm. I'm expats. And that's, that's what I was thinking. I was like, is this like an expat thing? No, no, it's not. Okay. Um, they're, they're interesting. Native Peruvians. Okay. Who organize this? Um, Jenny Donnelly was very inspired by it. Okay. Um, but there, there are two, so there it's like a five part declaration. I wanna read two of them. Mm-hmm. That really relate to what was going on in, in Seattle. Um, so the first part, or the first one that I wanna read is, uh, we declare that biological gender is sacred and the chatter says God made each of us male or female. Biological gender is sacred and cannot be changed through imagination, behavior, or medical intervention. We stand against the mutilation and destruction of biological gender. Um, and that's their statement saying like, we don't want, um mm-hmm. We don't want gender affirming care. Right. They, they focus it on children. They don't want it at all. Um. What's the second one? The second one. I'm trying to find it. No worries. We're, uh, talking about the, it's like the don't mess with our kids' creed or, or sorry, it's the Don't mess with our kids'. Declaration. Declaration. There we go. And that's gonna fit into mm-hmm. Some sort of like, contextual, uh, yeah. Material we'll discuss later. Um, the second part that I wanna read is we declare the family as the foundation of a healthy nation. So there's a Christian principle that like, um, obey your father, like healthy nations are centered around nuclear families. So like a father, a mother, and children. And that's, that's the foundation of a healthy nation. I, I thought you were gonna quote something actually in the Bible. Well, it's interesting. That's not biblical. I know, that's what I'm saying. I was like, oh yeah. Obey your father and mother. That, that's a commandment. Yeah. But no, it's, it's. This weird idea about a nuclear family that mm-hmm. Wasn't even in existence that much in that time. Sorry. The declaration reads. Um, God established the family unit between a man and a woman. He gave them the responsibility and a, and authority to protect and sustain the family. We stand against any evil that seeks to steal parental parental rights and destroy the family. Jenny Donnelly was on Matt Shay's. Uh. Radio show. Mm-hmm. Uh, it's actually a TV show now on a station called Patriot tv. Um, is it a real TV show or is it like an internet TV show? It's like an internet TV show. Okay. It's not, it's not real tv. Yeah. It's not carried on terrestrial, uh, broadcast. I just have to like put that little barb in there. It's not real tv. Yeah, it is. It is carried on radio waves, but, um, well, well they let us on the radio wave, so sorry. During that appearance, uh, Donnelly, um, asserted that this is, this is based in animus over the Supreme Court's. I believe it, 2011 decision that, that, um, basically gave, uh, gay people the right to get married mm-hmm. To who they love. I think that was 2015. Nope. 14. Nope. Nope. You, it's one of those years in the 2000 tens. But, um. That, that, that was kind of a watershed moment in like acceptance of queer communities. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, I just, I distinctly remember that moment because, um, this is a small digression again. I'm sorry. I'm It's okay. Very loopy today and tired. So, uh, and also we're doing stuff, stuff that's spring up, religious trauma. Um, I was interning at a Christian organization, um, that summer when that decision went through and my mom texted me and was because I was in Oklahoma, um, at this prestigious organization. It's actually a pretty o Okay. Organization. Um, and, uh, but I was in Oklahoma. My mom was still in California and she texted me and she said, oh my goodness, you know, the US is going to, he hell in a hand basket, like, I need to rededicate my life to the Lord. Mm-hmm. Because of that. That decision. And so I think that was like the summer of 2014 is when it was made. I just looked it up. It was 2015. Okay. You were right. I was right the first time. Time. Oh my goodness. Um, never done. Well, that's a really interesting anecdote because, um, it, like that decision did, uh, spark a backlash and it wasn't mm-hmm. I, I don't think it was apparent in most of society for a number of years. Yeah. Um, but it did, it, it does fuel a, a lot of the, a lot of the antique animus mm-hmm. That, that is like apparent in this Christian movement. Yeah. I mean, I think that that moment was a moment where a lot of evangelical Christians felt like their grip on the US like cultural, you know, uh, sector was like really slipping away. And I think it did a lot to push. That, those people towards, like Trumpism and things like that. Mm-hmm. Um, and I know that that is true in, in my families personally. So, um, I I might be making generalizations. Well, and you can see it, like, you can see it and, and to be clear, like I, I've read different figures. Mm-hmm. But, you know, like, so, so, so Donnelly and Shea belonged to a form of Christian nationalism that is very small. Mm-hmm. It's, it's. Yeah. It's not represent, it, it represents maybe five to 10% of churches. Mm-hmm. Um, it's, um, it's part of a movement called the New Apostolic Reformation. Mm-hmm. Um, and basically what Apostolic refers to is the structure of church governance. So there's five positions in a church. There's the apostle, the prophet mm-hmm. The pastor, the evangelist, and the teacher. And they all have very specific roles, but the apostle is the leader and Jenny Donnelly is an apostle. She calls her, she says that she's, she's allowed to be an apostle. She's allowed, women are allowed to be apostles in this moment. Oh my gosh. How progressive of, um, it's very, uh, it's, it's, it's an oddly progressive moving in some ways. It really is. It's, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's very racially diverse. Hmm. Um, it's, it, it's, there's certain sectors of it that, uh. Skew heavily into white supremacy. Mm-hmm. But, um, it appears, it appears very racially diverse. Mm-hmm. And yeah, they allow, they allow women to be at the top of leadership in this movement. Wow. Um, good, Jenny. Good for her. Jenny Donnelley is one of the top leaders in this movement. Huh. Um, but, but the NAR basically asserts that. So it's about the structure of church governance, but it's also about, um, adhering to this notion called the seven Mountains mandate. Mm-hmm. Which basically says that Christians are supposed to go out and occupy all the seven mountains mm-hmm. Of social influence, uh, government and military. Um. Media education, family media, entertainment. Um, can I share another personal anecdote? Sure. Okay. Um, so in case our listeners, uh, don't know this or haven't picked up on this, I used to be an evangelical Christian and very on fire for the Lord. Um, back, you know. For ages, like 18 to 24. So, um, I was really involved in the young adults ministry at, um, at a mega church in Riverside. Um, and I remember the, the young adult pastor, I was like talking to him one night and it was a big ministry. Like they met on Friday nights and it was probably like 150, like college age people. Mm-hmm. Um, and I remember telling him like, oh yeah, like my major is journalism. Like I'm really excited to become a journalist. And he was like, oh, that's really good. We need more Christians in the media. And he like gave me like a look and he was like, God wants you to be in the media and like shape the news for him. And I was like, that's. Not exactly how it's supposed to work, but I will follow the commandment of telling the truth. Um, and it, it was just kind of like a weird thing and it's always stuck with me. So when I hear that like Seven Mountain Mandate, I'm like, oh, that's what he was doing. You know? And, and I, I can't say whether your pastor Right, would call himself, uh, seven Mountains. Uh, probably, definitely not, but maybe, I don't know, apostle. But you know, that that's, that's kind of the essence of it. Mm-hmm. Is like Christians are supposed to be, they're supposed, they, they say they're supposed to go out beyond the four walls of the church and exert influence in society. Mm-hmm. And the goal is to turn the country, to be fair, that is into a Christian society, to be fair. Like you are in the world and not, or of it or whatever, you know, like that is biblical, but not necessarily. The next part that you just said of like, turn the whole nation Christian. Like, that's not exactly biblical, I don't think. Well, and I think most, most Christians would agree that like mm-hmm. The purpose of Christianity is to save mm-hmm. The souls of individual people. Right. So they can go to a heaven. Totally. Um, where it's a socialist. And so, so this, this form of, this form of, um, Christian nationalism, I, I refer to it and other, other scholars refer to it as as Dominion. Yeah. And it basically says the purpose of Christianity is not only to save souls, it is to, um, establish Christ's kingdom on earth. Mm-hmm. And that means Christians should be in control of the government. Um, so wild. 'cause like in every, sorry. I, it's okay. We should just have a radio show where we like hash out like all of the. Than religion. I think we are. Yeah. I know. This is what we're doing. Uh oh. We've, we've had this, we've had conversations about deconstruction before. Totally. Uh, this is a, a Val and Aaron religion trauma, decon, or, I don't know, religion, trauma, mess around. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Uh, anyways, keep going. Well, I think, um, what, and so, and so the way this, the way this I think is kind of distilled in, um, what happened in Seattle is there was the Jenny Donnelly explicitly said that this tour, which began in New York, went to Miami. The next stop was Houston. The fourth stop was Seattle. And they have another stop in LA on Saturday. Um, the, the purpose of it is to declare. That, um, and declare is a very important word. Mm-hmm. We had that, we had that, uh, we had that Lima Dec declaration that we talked about earlier. Um, they declare things in the, in the name of Christ, which a lot of Christians feel is not biblical, but they declare that Seattle belongs to Jesus. Mm. And that Jesus is in charge rather than seattleites, right? Mm-hmm. So rather than democratic voters. Um, but, uh, you heard that cry mm-hmm. Repeated from the stage at, um, at the Seattle event. Mm-hmm. Um, so like they're crying, like they're saying, like, I declare Seattle is Jesus' kingdom, essentially. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, and what the protestors were there to, um, to basically oppose mm-hmm. Is the extrapolation from that idea that Jesus in is in control. Which translates to, um, antique policy. Mm-hmm. The, the same things that, um, that the do don't mess with our kids movements. Mm-hmm. Um, is advocating for, um, and the important context is also that they're doing this, they were doing this on Capitol Hill, like in Seattle's, like Gaber Hood, right? Or mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. So that's, that's a significant, and there's, and there's some, there's some interesting developments in that. Mm-hmm. 'cause they originally planned it for Pike Place. Okay. The, the market on the, on the, it's near the boardwalk in Seattle wasn't good enough. Um, well, they couldn't get a permit. Oh, that makes sense. Um, the, the city wouldn't give them a permit. Um, how'd they get one for Capitol Hill then? Well, and that's, and that's an interesting thing. They, they like these organizers. Are really good at, um, press and flesh with people who, um, press and flesh. Yeah. Like shaking their hand. Oh, okay. With, with people who never heard that phrase before. It's like, yeah. It's like an old crotchety, journalistic term. Um, glad handing. Yeah, glad handing. That's probably more colloquial. Uh, but they, they have people organizing on the grounds in influential places. Yeah. For example, the way I got into reporting on this on, on, on Christian nationalism mm-hmm. And Dominion was I, I went to a, um, a concert by a Christian nationalist worship pastor named John Foyt. Mm-hmm. Um, in 2023. And that was part of a national tour that went to all the, um, all the capitals. Is that your first foray into covering Christian nationalism? Yes. I didn't know that. I thought you had like. Researched it a bunch before, I mean, obviously of your like, lived experience of like your religious trauma, but like I didn't know that anyways. Yeah. I, I'd been, I'd wanted to write mm-hmm. Because before I pitched, I first pitched range mm-hmm. In 2023, I had, um, earned my MFA at, uh, Eastern Washington University, and I did a lot of really deep research mm-hmm. Um, into Onfi Ministries. And that's kind of like how I got interested in it. Okay. So I, I had spent a year mm-hmm. Like looking at these people. Yeah. Um, but. The, um, Sean, Sean Foyt was able to organize that mm-hmm. Protest permit, um, through his connections with conservative state legislators in, in Washington. He, he sent them personal messages and mm-hmm. And said, can you org organize this for me? And they did. Hmm. Um, and we don't know exactly how the permit came about, or at least, I don't know. I haven't, I haven't seen that reported anywhere. Um, for the Seattle event. For the Seattle events. Um, but I imagine that it's some similar Yeah. Dynamic going on. Mm-hmm. Um, Jenny Donnelly does say that they, uh, paid money to be, they paid like fees to mm-hmm. To be in the park, um, which wouldn't surprise me. Mm-hmm. But yeah, uh, they, they're very good at like going ahead and at mm-hmm. At organizing. And, um, and MHE knows a lot of people in Seattle. There are a lot of other pastors in Eastern Washington and even on the west side, who also helped with the events. Mm-hmm. Um, who have similar clout, um, and relationships. Mm-hmm. And they're, they're just very good at net networking. Um, but yeah, the significance of them showing up there is that Capitol Hill is a, um, a famously queer friendly mm-hmm. And queer affirming neighborhood. And, um, I feel like Seattle in general is too, but Capitol Hill specifically. Yeah, totally. It's like distilled there. Really? Mm-hmm. Like really strongly. Um, and I. They, they choose these places for a reason. Yeah. Because they know that they're, they, they say that they're going into the dark places. Yeah. Um, and it's, I like how that bible verse, like playing in my head right now, it's for, it's for the purpose of, of conducting what they call spiritual warfare. Right. Um, and it's to provoke a, a response. Mm-hmm. Um, whether it's a, um, I don't, I don't know if they wanted violence. I like to be clear, I don't know if actual violence occurred. Yeah. Aside from the police, like dragging people. Mm-hmm. Um, like the protesters specifically who were not part Yeah. That's not clear yet. Um, I wouldn't be surprised if it, if it were. Mm-hmm. Um, but we, we just, I just haven't seen that. Yeah. Um, and the, the, it it's designed to mm-hmm. Provoke a, a, a visceral and mm-hmm. Some would argue violent response, so that for the purpose of feeding into their mm-hmm. Media campaigns, the like, kind of the, the, what's it called, um, martyred, um, what's the word I'm thinking of? Like, well, persecution. Persecution complex. There we go. Um, like feeding into that, uh, 'cause that is a powerful tool used by evangelicals and, and Christian nationalists to get more people to join, you know, and to get more people. More heavily involved and just to be like, look, they're persecuting us. Ah, you'll, you'll often hear, uh, pastors in the movement say, if you're not being per persecuted, then you're not truly a Christian. Um, because the idea is we live in a, in a secular society, and, and Christians are supposed to accept the idea that they're going to be persecuted for Christ. Mm-hmm. Um, if you believe what's in the Bible, uh, the apostles that followed Jesus mm-hmm. Um, were persecuted after, um, after he was, uh, after, after he went up to heaven, after he, after he ascended. Um, that was, uh, very familiar with persecution. 'cause the organization that I interned for is called Voice of the Martyrs. And they, um. Help persecuted Christians like around the world in other countries, um, who are like actually persecuted, you know? Yeah. Violently. Yeah. Um, and I mean, in that kid, like, I don't feel so icky about like having worked for them because I'm like, you know, they were kind of using American Christians persecution complex to help like actual persecuted people. So that's probably a good use of that. Yeah. And, and to be clear, like Christians are, are mm-hmm. Persecuted in the world, including in places like, um, like Israel where, uh, a number of, uh, mess messianic Jews were, were killed during the October, the October 7th. Yeah. Um, massacre, um, mess hunting Jews are like mm-hmm. Uh, they're, they're essentially Christians, but, uh, they're Jewish people who believe that Jesus is their service. Yes. Yes, exactly. Um. So, yeah. Like that, that's, that's what they're trying to attract and the way they use it mm-hmm. Is, um, they like, like I said, they, they lavishly, documented. Mm-hmm. There's lots of video cameras. There's lots of, there's lots of still cameras are, are you are, when you say like, documenting it, like they have like people with like big old camera recorders on their shoulders, like documentary style documenting this. They have, they have not just like cell phones. Yeah. They have specific people with fancy video equipment, um, whose job it is mm-hmm. To document these events. Yeah. And they use it for, in like, they, they produce these like usually between like four and seven minute mm-hmm. Videos that show. Um, Christians worshiping peacefully. Mm-hmm. Or sometimes they're weeping, sometimes they're laughing. Mm-hmm. Sometimes they're with like, music. Yeah. Sometimes they're reaching their, their hands to heaven. And on the flip side, you'll see these people in dark clothing mm-hmm. Who, you know, they're like, production are the, the way that, the way it's filmed, they're, they, they appear to be, uh, like Christians would interpret it as being satanic and being violent. Yeah. So they, it's, it's, it's a very like, savvy and specific form of propaganda. Yeah. I mean, I, I have, sorry, he had another personal anecdote about this. My husband, um, he was, he's a media guy, a videographer and everything. Um, and he used to intern for, um. Have you ever heard of Ray Comfort? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. He used to in intern for his ministry, um, and do the videos for his like street preaching videos, um, at like Huntington Beach. Yeah. Ray Ray. Ray Comfort is one of the most famous, uh, street pastors. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I just like never know if like, people outside of like that, that bubble know about it. You know what I mean? Um, but yeah, and, and I think you always have to assume that people, the average person totally doesn't know. Yeah. Um, and, and there's so many characters. It's Yes. It's like a cinematic universe. We should, we should have like a cinematic universe like. On our website of this. Um, but yeah, so he used to like intern for, for him and do video for him. And, and you know, he's talked to me like we've talked about like the level of production that goes into those types of things and, and the decisions that are made in editing, you know, for those kinds of things. And like, he also used to work at a, um, a church camp, um, and like doing like sound mixing and things like that. And he was like, yeah, like during, you know, the, the night where, you know, the pastors are trying to get all the kids to dedicate their lives to the God and accept Jesus. Um, you know, there's a lot of manipulation that's happening on from the soundboard essentially with music and lighting and, you know, at some churches like smoke machines and things like that. Like it's a production and it's very much psychologically, uh, like. Attuned, you know, to, to how humans react to these types of things. Um, so it is, I can attest that it is a production. One of the specific things they do is they, they start the event by playing, um, a type of like tonal mm-hmm. Music called ambiance. And it's just like, it's like chord. It, it's like specific chord, pro progressions. Yeah. And it just mm-hmm. It fills the air. Mm-hmm. Um, and then somebody starts praying. Mm-hmm. Like really enthusiastically and. That is, there's, there's a lot of science that shows that does a very specific thing to the human brain. It lowers your critical thinking abilities. Mm-hmm. Um, and it opens you up to certain types of messaging Yeah. Which you're gonna get in the rest of the, of the event. Mm-hmm. Or concert or whatever it is. Yeah. I mean, I've seen, I'm like on deconstruction, TikTok, and, um, you know, I've seen so many people comment things like, I thought I was feeling the Holy Spirit during worship music at church, but then I realized I just like live music. Yeah. And it's like, there's a scientific word I can't think of right now, of, um, of the physical reaction that humans get to, like live, experiencing, live music in a big group of people. Um, there's a word for it. I can't think of it right now. But, um, yeah. And, and churches really play into that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. They know how to use it. Mm-hmm. Whether they're doing it, you know. Genuinely or not, like most are doing it on purpose. Sorry. Um, don't wanna burst anyone's bubble, but it is very intentional. Yeah. I have a guy on the inside or hat he was on the inside, I guess not anymore. So, um, with this event you said that like, um, you know, are, so are they starting this event with that type of ambiance, music, things like that? Like, yeah, and they, they did some other rhetorical things. They raffled off some bicycles and some gift cards and they had a, a booth where, uh, children could get their hair cut for free. Um. That's, which was a very specific It it was, and it, and it's, and it's, um, it's very like, specifically intended. Um, oh, is it like, like, boys get boy haircuts and girls get girl haircuts or something. It's not marketed that way. Yeah. Um, but that's not the pur, that's not, I don't think that's the, the central purpose. Mm-hmm. Um, because Jenny, so, so after the event, um, Seattle Mayor, mayor Bruce Harrell, uh, issued a statement, and I should, I should read this statement. Yeah. Um, or at least part of it. Um. He said, Seattle is proud of our reputation as a welcoming, inclusive city for LGBTQ plus communities. And we stand with our trans neighbors when they face bigotry and injustice. Today's far right rally was held there for this very reason to provoke a reaction by promoting beliefs that are inherently opposed to our city's values. In the heart of Seattle's most prominent LGBTQ plus neighborhood, when the humanity of trans people and those who have been historically marginalized this question, we triumph by demonstrating our values through our words and peaceful protests. We lose our voice when this is disrupted by violence, chaos, and confusion. Um, and it goes on to criticize the, the protesters, but, um, he was basically saying that this was an antique event. Mm-hmm. Um, and. If you've been listening, you understand that this movement is an explicitly antique movement. Yeah. Um, I mean, they have, they have other causes. Mm-hmm. But that's one of the big ones. And sorry, this is the, the mayday event thingy. That's what's called, right? Yeah. So Gay America or whatever. So the, the May, yeah. And I don't think I've said this, but the, the mayday, uh, the mayday rally is specifically under the umbrella of Don't mess with our kids. Oh, gotcha. And Jenny Donnelly has been very explicit about that. Mm-hmm. Um, so. Jenny Donnelly, after Harold issued that statements, um, issued her own statements saying we were there peacefully. Um, we, we gave the protestors, uh, a space in our space and we, and we roped it off so that they could, so that they could protest us. We want them there. Um, we've had them there in other cities where they, where they weren't violence. Um, and our movement is, and, and basically denying that the, that the movement was antique. Mm. Yesterday she went on, she, she was driving to another, another event mm-hmm. That was held at, at city hall to protest Harold's statement by the, the mayday organizers. Um, so Jenny Donnelly led people to city Hall, um, to basically protest what, what Harold had written in his statement. Um. On her way there. While she was driving, she went on the, uh, the lance Wall. Now show, Lance Wall now is another NAR Apostle. He's probably one of the, he's probably he's among the top most famous, um, NAR Apostles and, uh, Lance called, uh, Donnelly, his friend. Mm-hmm. Um, they, all, these people all know each other. Mm-hmm. Um, and she, uh, he, he was just interviewing her and he, he called the mayor's statement, um, ridiculous and said, uh, actually I have the quote here. Yeah. Um. So the mayor's statement, like affirming queer people? Yes. Okay. Um, he says the event has nothing to do with anti LGBQ, with an anti L-G-B-T-Q agenda. And, uh, Donnelley answered that the stated purpose of the event was to pray, worship and bring, don't mess with our kids to the streets in restoring family. So if you, if you take the rhetoric mm-hmm. Of don't mess with our kids and mayday, um, out of the equation mm-hmm. Which is what she was doing here, um, then yeah. It doesn't seem like it was antique. Mm-hmm. Um, but if you go read what's underneath that, if you read the web, the websites of Don't Mess with our kids, the, the websites of mayday, the fact that they have the Lima declaration on their website, it is an explicitly antique Yeah. Movement. And they were organizing to oppose queerness. Yeah. I have a question. So, in the other cities where they've had this event, are they also in like traditionally Gaber hood or like gay neighborhoods of these other cities? Do you know? It's a good question. I'm not sure if, I'm not sure if that was the case. Mm-hmm. In Miami or Houston. Mm-hmm. I believe in New York. It was in Times Square. I think. Oh, I need to, times Square is a hellhole. I went there for the very first time a few weeks ago and I got so overwhelmed. There's a lot of people. Yeah. Um, but these are, I mean, like, these are, these are, regardless of whether they're held, held in like an explicitly like queer affirming neighborhood. Mm-hmm. Like. Chris, uh, Christians in the NAR movement, see large cities as Yeah. Bastions of like satanic mm-hmm. Organizing or activity. Right. Um, and so she's, she's taking her, her movement to all of, to some of the biggest cities mm-hmm. Um, in the nation. And, um, Seattle's, Seattle's an obvious flashpoint. I'm surprised they didn't do a Portland event, but, um, but I mean, yeah, like these, these cities are all, um, maybe with the exception of Houston, known as like very liberal places and Houston is liberal for tactics. Yeah. But, um, but yeah, like they're, they're going to, they're going into the darkness, right? Yeah. It's that, it's that same trope. Fascinating. So, um. Bringing it back to like, why we are talking about this. Like why are we talking about, um, you know, an anti or a, you know, c Christian worship event, um, with antique undertones that happened in Seattle, you know, this past weekend. Um, right. It happened this weekend. It was, it was on Saturday. Okay, cool. Mm-hmm. Time is crazy. Um, yeah, and obviously this comes back to, uh, Shay's Church. Mm-hmm. Um, I mentioned the, which is based in Spokane. Yes. Um, I mentioned that Donnelly had gone on Shay's show, um, and she, she praised him as being one of the foremost local people in this movement, and she said that all churches should be organizing the same kinds of events as. As Shea's Church does. Um, she, during that appearance, um, just there's some other like really striking important details from that, uh, and the whole time she's talking. Mm-hmm. Like you can see on, on the video, Matt Shea is nodding and agreeing. Um, she lamented a, a statistic showing the number of youth who identify as queer has increased drastically in the last several years. Um, which don only frames as a result of indoctrination in schools when really like, so those numbers are produced by the CDC, uh, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Federal Health Agency. Um. They said that that might be due to changes in the wording of, of survey questions that include people who don't know whether they identify as L-G-B-T-Q in high school. Well, I mean, and just like culturally, our, like our culture is so much more open and affirming in general now, and it's kind of like, you know, rates of left-handedness went up when people stopped tying their children's left hands behind their back to make the right with their right hands, you know? Um, like I am bisexual and I've always been bisexual, but I did not accept that about myself until four years ago or five years ago. You know, so. Yeah. And if, if you had realized that much earlier, would've answered the survey question Yeah. You might, you might, you might not have felt comfortable Yeah. Being open about it. Exactly. Um, or answering survey questions mm-hmm. In the affirmative. So I think there, there's a few other potential factors at work here. Yeah. Um. Yeah. But regardless, like Donnelley sees this as a crisis and is explicit in it about interviews from the pulpit. Um, she told and, and, and on Shay's show, um, I went to an appearance by her at Onfi Ministries last year. Um, and she told this story of, and it was, it didn't have any context. It was, I think it was, I think it seems to be taking place at a school. Mm-hmm. Um, but she told a story about a little girl who was, um, like, like a very young girl who was, who was dressed up like a cat. She had a tail and she had like little cat ears. Oh, goodness. Um, just like acting like an animal, you know, just like mm-hmm. Like little kids pretend to be animals. Yeah. Um, and she said to Donnelly, she said, I'm a cat. I'm a cat. I, and if you know anything about how. Hm. Christians perceive that they, they tie it to mm-hmm. Um, identifying as the, the, mm-hmm. As not the gender of your, of your birth. Right. Mm-hmm. Um, they see it as kind of like a similar thing. Yeah. And a perversion of, of God's will. And she said she, she like knelt down before the girl, and she was like, trying to be motherly. This is how she describes it. Mm-hmm. Um, we don't know what this event was actually like. Um, she said, oh, no, honey, you're not a cat. You're a little girl. You're one of God's princesses. And, uh, it's not a princess. Well, and, and sorry. And, and, and don, like, like that's a, that's a very like, specific piece of rhetoric. Right. And, um, basically just saying like, like. Don't, sorry. If we're doing things literally is what I meant. Don't, I don't imagine yourself as something that you're not. Mm-hmm. And we get to define what you are, which is, which is God's little princess, right? Mm-hmm. You're never gonna be, um, a trans man. Like, um, you're supposed to embody like a specific, uh, set of, um, like gender performances, right? Mm-hmm. Which is like, like you're a princess, right? Um, and so yeah, that's, that's, those were some interesting points from, from Matt Shades. She, she told the same story on his show. Um, what did the little girl say according to this story? Uh, she say, oh, you're right, I am my dad. She said, well, so Donnelly told the girl, according to her story, she said, um, she said, we're, we're gonna take your tail off and, and your, and your ears rude. And the, the little girl was like, okay. Um. That according to her version of the story, um, again, we don't know. She just took a little costume. That's so messed up. Well, yeah. I mean that, like, that's, that's part of the, so kids can't even play dress up anymore. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's fair to say. Um, they don't, they don't want kids to be using their imagination to imagine that there's something other than what they're told by society. They should be performing. Yeah. I mean, and it goes back to like critical thinking and, and, you know, not like Yeah. Not allowing kids to use their imagination and something as silly or simple as like, I'm a cat or whatever. Um, 'cause if you're not exercising that ability for your imagination, you're not able to exercise it when you're an adult. Yeah. And a tithe paying member of the church, it's, it's about, it's about identity and like, crafting specific identities. Mm-hmm. And like, like. Having like people who are expected to perform a specific role mm-hmm. Stay in those roles. Yeah. Yeah. That's, uh, fun. This has been a really fun, uh, journey down religious trauma. I wish I could have made it to the Seattle event, but I didn't. Yeah. I didn't have the wherewithal to get out there, but, um, so I just wanna be clear, like we talked at the beginning of this show about, you know, accusations that the protestors of this event were violent or, um, you know, with two specific stories being like, particularly egregious of a protestor, allegedly holding a knife to a worshiper throat and protestors throwing balloons full of urine at them. Um, and just to be clear, like none of those have actually borne out to be true, or we have not found any evidence that those were true. So I know, I know that at least eight. So as of Monday, which is of several days ago, I, I know that at least eight protestors have appeared in court. Mm-hmm. Um, but no, there's like, the prosecutions will have to play out. Um, do you know what they were charged with? Assault. Oh, okay. Of the, most of them were charged. Most of them were charged with assault and one was charged with assault, a lesser crime. I can't remember what it was. Assault of the people at the event, either protesters or either the worshipers or the police. Got it. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Have you heard any stories from the protesters? No. Okay. Is it because they're all in jail or, I don't, I don't think they're all in jail. Uh, I just haven't, yeah. Been able to sort out who they, who they are. Mm-hmm. Um, and another bit of context I probably should have asked earlier is, um, do you know, like, or have any idea of what the ratio of like. Event goers to protesters were like, oh, is this a big group of protesters in comparison or were they about the same size groups, or was it like a much smaller group? I heard, I, I read reports that there were about 500 worshipers. Mm-hmm. And about 500 protesters. Mm-hmm. Oh, so it was an equally large group. Okay. Um, some of the leaders of the Mayday event mm-hmm. Described the protestors as an army. Um, and they use really militant language. You have to The Armor of God hedge. Gosh. Well, and like, there was, there's an interesting piece in, um, in the, uh, the Baptist News in Baptist News Global, which is like a publication that writes about, uh, I see you for reading these publications. Um. And, and it begins with a quote mm-hmm. From Ross Johnson, who's, who's Jenny Donnelley's, like co, uh, organizer of these events. Um, he founded an organization that kind of stemmed from Sean FO's, uh, organ, or, or at least from Sean FO's rhetoric called, uh, California will be Saved. And they do like national, or like they do like statewide tours to like essentially do the same thing. Mm-hmm. Assert that California belongs to Jesus Christ. And, um, so funny and conduct spiritual warfare. Um, and he said Today was wild. Um, a, a riot broke out in Seattle. Uh, he posted these words on Instagram, um, and then he went on No more acute, weak Christians. We serve the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. So they stopped short of, like I saying, that there needs to be like physical warfare. Mm-hmm. Um. But they really relish. Yeah. The idea that they're being attacked. Mm-hmm. Um, that's very important to them. Yeah. Wow. Um, so we are almost up, out of time. Um, and, uh, hedge, uh, I'll take us out. All right. Okay. Um, do you have any questions about local government wondering who to complain to about an issue in your neighborhood? Wondering which agency governs certain things, wondering why something is happening, like a protest or a worship event in Seattle, um, or how much it costs? Email us at free range@ks.org with your questions and we'll try to answer them next week. Free Range is a weekly news and public affairs program presented by Range Media and produced by Range Media and KYRS Community Radio KYS, medical Lake Spokane. This has been another Val Hedge Religious Trauma Mess Around. Bye everyone. See next week.