1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,000 On this episode, we talk with our good friend, Caleb Roose, 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,920 about three proven ways to build lasting relationships with your kids. 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:15,840 You're listening to the Dudes and Dads podcast, a show dedicated to helping men be better dudes and 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:20,240 dads by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling. 5 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:24,560 Now, here are your hosts, Joel Damana and Andy Layman. 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:29,520 Andy, Joel, it's 2024, season six, season six. 7 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:31,280 Holy Toledo. 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:32,880 Where have the time gone? 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,160 Where has the time gone? 10 00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:42,160 Andy, of all the things that I want to do to really kick off the new year, 11 00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:46,000 being across the table from you is at least in the top three. 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,440 It's been way too long, Joel. 13 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:48,160 Way too long. 14 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:50,640 You were in California and we were away. 15 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:52,160 And you guys did some stuff. 16 00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:52,880 We did some stuff. 17 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:54,080 You did some stuff. 18 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,160 Gosh, we went into the site and sound theater in Branson, Missouri, which is amazing. 19 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,280 Branson, Missouri is I like to call it. 20 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,200 Old person Christian Vegas. 21 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:04,880 It is. 22 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:06,400 But no, I mean, it was cool. 23 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,520 The show, site and sound show was amazing. 24 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:10,000 Awesome. 25 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:10,880 Very cool. 26 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,760 Yeah, we've been away for a little bit, everyone. 27 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:15,920 And just to be clear, we have missed you. 28 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:22,400 So here we are for season six, five years at this thing, Andy. 29 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:23,200 Yes. 30 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:24,320 Where has the time gone? 31 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:25,440 I can't even, I don't know. 32 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:25,920 It's right. 33 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,080 We were, we were such young men when this all started. 34 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,080 And now here now some of us are old. 35 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:33,440 You have a birthday Monday though. 36 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,440 So just the day after this thing comes out, it's a special one, Andy. 37 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,040 It's the big three one. 38 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:39,760 No, not really. 39 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:40,800 That's nice. 40 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,920 No, four, oh, 40 years old. 41 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,720 Or you're as young as I like to call it. 42 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:47,040 Yeah. 43 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:47,520 40 years. 44 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:48,000 Yeah. 45 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:56,080 And we're excited about it sort of only in that I think we're going to do something. 46 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,960 I'm going to, Jackie asked me what I want to do for my 40th birthday and I said, 47 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,800 I want to spend it with the people that I care about most deeply. 48 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,160 So whether you're aware of that or not, you're part of those plans. 49 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:06,560 Cool. 50 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:07,040 Okay. 51 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:07,760 Great. 52 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:08,240 Great, great. 53 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:14,560 Well, Joel, we do have an amazing guest today, but before we get started, I wanted to let you know 54 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:20,000 that support for this episode comes from Everince Financial, helping members invest in what 55 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,320 lasts through financial services with impact. 56 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,920 More at everince.com/michyanna. 57 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:29,680 Securities offered through Conquers Financial Group, securities incorporated member, 58 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,840 FINRA, SI, PC. 59 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:32,960 Joel. 60 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:34,960 Here we are. 61 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:35,920 Who's on with this? 62 00:02:35,920 --> 00:02:36,160 Okay. 63 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,520 So I should preface because we just confirmed this before the show. 64 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:47,200 This episode specifically with this guest specifically has been over two years in the 65 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:48,240 making, Andy. 66 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,280 Holy moly. 67 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,640 We started a conversation with our good friend, Kille Bruce. 68 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:57,120 Back in October of 2021, I thought it'd only been a year. 69 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:02,640 And then Caleb informed me that he looked back on our email thread and was like, no, 70 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:04,240 no, it's been longer than that. 71 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:10,560 And that's how time gets away from us these days when we, yeah, just not a sense of, wow, 72 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,160 it's been over two. 73 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,360 So first of all, Caleb, welcome to the show. 74 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:16,800 Welcome to Dudes and Dads podcast. 75 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:17,760 Glad to have you here. 76 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,000 Thanks so much for having me. 77 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:20,720 Yes, Caleb. 78 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:27,280 Um, Caleb comes to us from it in the great state of California, where as I was sharing before, 79 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,960 I've just spent two weeks out there for the holidays with him. 80 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:31,760 It was great. 81 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:37,040 But Caleb, your state messes up all my circadian rhythms. 82 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,720 Uh, no offense, but I am not quite full back. 83 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,160 My, I right now, I couldn't tell you what, like, if I didn't know what time we started 84 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,120 recording, I couldn't tell you what time it is right now within three hours. 85 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,680 I mean, it's, I'm a little bit messed up, but, uh, you know, hopefully, uh, we'll make sense, 86 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,640 as we're communicating tonight on the show. 87 00:03:54,640 --> 00:04:02,800 So, um, the reason we have Caleb on Caleb has, he's, he's, first of all, uh, Caleb is near 88 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,120 and dear to my heart because he works with young adults. 89 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:08,560 We're going to have him explain all of this. 90 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:15,280 He works on with, uh, with faith communities and, um, young, young people and helping them 91 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,360 transition through really important, this really important chapter of life. 92 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:20,720 And I love all of that Caleb. 93 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,000 But I met a few years ago, and this is how we got initially got connected. 94 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:32,800 A few years ago as I was still in the youth and young adult, uh, pastor gig, uh, and, um, 95 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,560 really got introduced to the work that they're doing and he's going to tell you all about that. 96 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,320 But, uh, that's how it started. 97 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,400 And from that, I was like, this Caleb guy, he's my kind of dude. 98 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:43,760 I need to talk to him more. 99 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,600 And then I started a podcast, Andy. 100 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,960 And so you said, we said, what better place, what better place. 101 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,320 So here he is, uh, Caleb again, welcome. 102 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:53,360 Thank you for being here. 103 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,920 We're so, we're so grateful for you taking the time. 104 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:00,400 Um, first and foremost, as we like to do at every episode when we're welcoming a guest, 105 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,560 we like to get the dad stats as we call it. 106 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:09,920 So you get to tell us about your, the special people in your life, your family, um, how long, 107 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:15,520 if you're married, how long, where you're from, all the good stuff that you want to, 108 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:20,080 whatever you feel is safe to put out on the interwebs and on this podcast would love to hear 109 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,280 more about you. 110 00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:22,800 So take it away. 111 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,040 Yeah, awesome. 112 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:25,600 Thanks, Joel. 113 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:26,960 And thanks, Andy, for having me. 114 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:31,440 And I'm just excited to be in this community of dads that can't believe it's six seasons. 115 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,160 And I'm excited to kick this off with both of you. 116 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:35,920 Um, season six. 117 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:36,320 Wow. 118 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:36,560 Yeah. 119 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,280 And who better to start our season with this? 120 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:40,080 This is what I also love. 121 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:41,120 But this all came together. 122 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,120 It's starting season six with Caleb. 123 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:44,240 It makes total sense. 124 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:44,880 Total sense. 125 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:45,600 So yeah, thank you. 126 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:46,240 Thank you. 127 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:46,560 Yeah. 128 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,080 Two years in, in making. 129 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:49,040 Um, yeah. 130 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,000 So I am married to my wife Colleen. 131 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,600 We've been married for over 13 years and we have three kids. 132 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,080 Uh, we go girl, girl, boy. 133 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:03,840 So it's in their six, four and one years old and, uh, life is full with them. 134 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:04,640 It's amazing. 135 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,880 Um, challenging and everything in between, which I know everybody listening and you both know. 136 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,480 I know that because I, you know, it is be a dad. 137 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:13,520 Yes, absolutely. 138 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:14,800 Yeah. 139 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:15,120 Yeah. 140 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:23,760 I, uh, I think back to gosh, our youngest is seven now and I, but I go back to that stage 141 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:28,960 that you're talking about right now where I just had a conversation with a dad who had 142 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:34,000 three, three kids similar to your age and it was a rough conversation. 143 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,680 I think because he just asked me, does it get better? 144 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,280 It's like, Oh, it just gets different. 145 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:44,320 That's, that's all, you know, um, but you're still in that stage, uh, Caleb with the kids where, 146 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,400 uh, they need a lot from you, right? 147 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,120 They like, they need a lot of that personal interaction, right? 148 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,920 And that's the, uh, you know, um, in terms of like just helping them do basic stuff. 149 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,720 And I will say, uh, Andy got to experience this a little because I have Andy as a friend. 150 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,240 Really one of the reasons Andy is my friend is that his kids are a little, 151 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,560 he's a couple that are a little bit older than mine. 152 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:09,760 And so he gave me hope for when they started like progressing into their teen years and like 153 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,520 gaining that independence and like, it would like, there was less hand holding. 154 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,040 I said, it is possible. 155 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:16,640 There is a light at the end of this tunnel. 156 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:21,760 And so, um, I will, I will just pass that on to you and say, uh, for whatever light you need 157 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,440 at the end of your current tunnel, it's there. 158 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:24,080 It's there. 159 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:25,200 It's somewhere, it's somewhere. 160 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,840 So, so, yeah. 161 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:34,080 So three young, three young kids, um, and, uh, married and all of that, 162 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:39,680 uh, and, and because you obviously it's clear you're a pretty cool guy, 163 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,680 where, where exactly do you live Caleb? 164 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:46,240 Yes, I live near Pasadena, California, which is in Southern California. 165 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:47,360 Um, yeah. 166 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:48,000 So that's where Matt. 167 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:48,160 Yeah. 168 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:48,400 Yeah. 169 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,480 And then, uh, Caleb, what, what do you do for a job serve? 170 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,640 Cause I sort of, I sort of tease this at the beginning. 171 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:59,600 Uh, I, and I'm a big fan, I should just say, I, I get another son super bias. 172 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,680 I'm just a big fan of what Caleb does in the organization he works with because they are 173 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:04,560 immensely helpful. 174 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,880 So that's my little, that's my little plug for any, 175 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:07,200 Sure. 176 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,720 Any ministry leaders or people are working with young adults, like it's the real deal, 177 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,640 but tell us, yeah, tell us about your work, where you, where you work, all of that good stuff. 178 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,400 Yeah. 179 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:21,760 I work at the Fuller Youth Institute, uh, which is a part of Fuller Theological Seminary in 180 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:23,280 Pasadena, California. 181 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:28,320 And so the Fuller Youth Institute really focuses on resourcing, uh, youth and young 182 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,000 adult ministry leaders as well, as well as associate pastors and senior pastors, but 183 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,600 about how do you do faithful ministry with young people? 184 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:40,240 And so my research specifically focuses on ministry with young adults and kind of like 185 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:40,400 that. 186 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:47,040 And we're merging adulthood age range of 23, uh, to 29, but also dipping down to 18 to 29. 187 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,920 And just think looking at, okay, that's a, a lot of transition happens in that decade of life, 188 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:53,040 decade plus of life. 189 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:57,760 And like how, how can we as people who care about young adults, uh, come alongside them? 190 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,680 And so yeah, so I managed the research and also managed turning that research into resources, 191 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:06,720 uh, for church leaders, but also parents and others who care about young adult. 192 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:07,120 Yes. 193 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,760 Very doggone, good resources, if I, if I may say. 194 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,160 And, and for those of you that are interested in this stuff, uh, if you've got young adults, 195 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,560 if you've got college kids and you're like, what am I supposed to be doing with these people? 196 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:21,840 How can I make an impact? 197 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:27,600 We will make, uh, we'll make links and information available on the show notes, uh, over to Fuller 198 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:28,320 Youth Institute. 199 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,480 So you can see the, uh, the good work that they're doing over there and where you can 200 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:32,880 get stuff. 201 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,280 We'll make that amount and make that available as well. 202 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,280 So, okay. 203 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:43,040 Caleb, here's the, the one question that I, I have, uh, been thinking about with regard to your work 204 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,720 and the work you're doing. 205 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:50,000 Do you feel like because you're working with older, you know, you're working with young adults, 206 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:56,240 emerging adults, have you recently thought about like kind of the re like 207 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,760 parenting in light of reverse engineering with what you do. 208 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,440 So you, you know, the challenges that lie ahead for the 20 something. 209 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:15,040 Um, how has that impacted, uh, your own parenting, your, your own, your own fatherhood, uh, journey 210 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,680 as you've been, uh, leading your family. 211 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:20,320 Yeah, that's a great question. 212 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,960 You know, my kids are pretty, they have a ways until they enter that phase of life, 213 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,320 but even still just looking at what it is like to be a young adult today. 214 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,480 Um, it's changed so much from previous generations. 215 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,720 And so I think it has already shifted more consciously or subconsciously. 216 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,280 It's definitely shifted the way I think about, okay, what does it mean to prepare 217 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,000 my kids eventually for adulthood? 218 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,480 So right now, you know, some of them I'm preparing them to, uh, use the potty on their own. 219 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:54,480 Um, but, but if I think again, um, you know, that it's not, they don't really need a script. 220 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,080 In terms of, okay, after this, you do this and after that, you do that. 221 00:10:58,080 --> 00:10:58,960 And it's all going to work out. 222 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:00,400 That's not really the way life is. 223 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,240 I don't know if it ever was that way, but definitely isn't the way life is now. 224 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,960 And so what they need is more the soft skills, the adaptability, the way to 225 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,000 learn and pivot and just kind of have that growth mindset. 226 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,320 Um, so I, I'm really hoping to instill that in my kids, just like a love for learning 227 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,800 and ability to, you know, when life changes and shifts, like you, you shift with it. 228 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,400 Um, and don't, you know, I think we talked to so many young adults 229 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:32,640 and this burden, uh, you know, this burden of, oh, I didn't follow the script I was given. 230 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,560 And it's not actually no fault of their own. 231 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:39,040 It's just, you know, the life in the world, it didn't make that script possible. 232 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:44,320 And so what we need is just a set of our kids to be able to adapt along the way and 233 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:49,120 not, you know, not just being pushed back and forth with the waves, but more like, 234 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,200 you know, you don't have to, it's not, it was not one right way to live life. 235 00:11:53,200 --> 00:12:00,400 Yeah. Do you, uh, I hear you kind of using language really developing, we'll call it grit 236 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:05,920 and perseverance within our, with our kids that that, that seems to be, uh, a value. 237 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:12,400 Um, uh, you know, more and more so, we, gosh, we just had a conversation with our eldest, 238 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,040 my eldest son's 14 and we just had a conversation. 239 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,520 Uh, some, he got thrown a little bit of a curveball today with some life, life plans, 240 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,480 some things that he's passionate about and cares about. 241 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:27,280 And, you know, I said to my, I said, I was having a conversation with my wife ahead of time, 242 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,480 like, we're kind of queuing this up like, Hey, uh, we're going to talk to him about this right 243 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,320 now, or are we going to, you know, some information came to us and we're like, we have to share this 244 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:40,800 with him. And you know, uh, and I, I had this sense of like, this is where, this is sort of the 245 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:46,400 testing ground, the proving ground for developing resilience and adaptability and adaptability 246 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,240 that you're talking about where he thought things were going to play out this way over the next 247 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:56,320 few months. And now there's going to be a slight change to that. Um, if when you're thinking about 248 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:03,760 your work with young, with young adults, um, and, and want to encourage parents who are, who, 249 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:09,360 who have young adult kids or about ready to have young adult kids, uh, where would you stack that 250 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:16,240 whole resilience grit adaptability in terms of like, how important is it from what you're, 251 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,320 what you're seeing in your work? How important is it that, is it to instill that within them? 252 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:25,280 Oh, very. Yeah. 253 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:30,320 Thought we froze there for a while. It took him a while to come up with that one. 254 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,960 I was like, do I say anything other than very, and that's the only way they came to mind is 255 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:40,320 it's just very important. And I think, you know, having that posture as a parent of being present 256 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:46,160 with them as they process those things, but not trying to solve the problem for them is so huge. 257 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:51,120 Just knowing, okay, I know somebody has my back, you know, the young adult speaking, I know somebody 258 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:56,880 has my back. Um, but I also, I have something within me where I can, I can handle this challenge. 259 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:03,840 And allowing them to know what it feels like to draw on their own internal resources that you've 260 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,640 equipped them with that others in their community have equipped them with. That's just so essential. 261 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,040 And they'll, they'll ask you when they, they want guidance and support, but kind of some, some of us, 262 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,480 you know, we all have different parenting styles and personalities, but some of us, we kind of have 263 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:24,000 to just listen more and, you know, advice less. Yeah. And all of this, you know, really Caleb is 264 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,560 under the umbrella. I mean, I think the big assumption we're making here is the fact that 265 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,480 we have the ability to, to kind of give this input and this guidance into our kids' lives. 266 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,840 It definitely assumes relationship, right? Like it, like that's, that's the thing. 267 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:46,400 And really without relationship, you don't have, it's kind of like, I still feel, and I feel like 268 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:51,040 this with my, with my kids and Andy, I don't know how you feel like there is still this ongoing 269 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:57,600 sense of I have to earn the right. So to speak, to, to be heard by my kids in certain, in certain 270 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:03,040 places. Like I have to, I have to, because there comes a point when they're younger, 271 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,760 where it's like, you're going to do this because I, I'm, I, because I'm the dad, right? And I use 272 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:12,080 those, the words that we always said we wouldn't use because I told you so. Well, let me, let me 273 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:17,760 tell you this though, like as, like my oldest just became 18. And so that's even harder now to 274 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:24,400 let that go. And he reminds me almost constantly, hey, I'm 18, I'm 18. I don't have to listen to 275 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:29,760 you. I'm like, yeah, I used to live in my house. Yeah. But, but yeah, as they definitely get older, 276 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,080 and that's tough, especially when you're just like used to saying, because I said so. 277 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,720 Right. Right. Because now you're, you're drawing on the well of your relationship with him. 278 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:44,400 Right. For, for the guidance, right? It isn't so much of a, of a, from a position of, of authority 279 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:49,600 as it is a position of real, of relationship. Right. Right. But you know, Caleb, so in the 280 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:56,800 thing, the important thing we want to highlight here and mention is, so Caleb at his, at his 281 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,960 aspiring work that he is doing this good work at good enough dads, which let me just say, 282 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,480 beautiful name, perfect. Cause that's, that's all I want. I just want to be good enough. 283 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:11,200 And I think we've said that before on the show too. We said, we've said, we want to know that we're 284 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,920 not screwing our kids up. And so yeah, Andy and I talk about this perpetual concern that we are 285 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,720 doing something drastically terrible that's ruining our children. Right. And, and sometimes, 286 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,200 you know, you have these good, this sense of why I've really messed up. Can we ever come back from 287 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:30,800 this? And really the truth is we're, we can, we just have to, we, there's an intentional, 288 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:35,760 intentional nature to it and a relationship. But Caleb, you recently wrote this. You really 289 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,360 roast, wrote, recently wrote this article on, on your site over at good enough, 290 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,200 good enough dads.com, which we again, we'll make available in the channel. 291 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:48,240 Absolutely. Everybody that's interested. Definitely encourage you. But his recent article just came 292 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:53,760 out a few days ago where Caleb, you talk about three proven ways to build lasting relationship 293 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:58,960 with your kids. And you won't move over immediately because you quote Nate Burgessie, 294 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:04,160 which is, that's all I needed. I was like, this guy knows what's going on. Perfect. 295 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:11,120 But really talked about, you know, there's lots of things that we are trying to build with our 296 00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:15,520 kids. But at the core, and as we've said here, with the input and the impact that we're trying to 297 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:22,880 make, relationship is important. Walk us through the article, give us the, give us the highlights 298 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,840 of kind of the point that you want to make with this and what you want to communicate 299 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:33,280 to dads that are, you know, that are maybe struggling in this area or asking for some, 300 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:39,760 asking for some help. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Thanks for that, Joel. I, you know, yeah, I, 301 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:44,320 I, yeah, share, apparently we share a love of a comedian, Nate Burgessie and just that bit that 302 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:49,360 he has, you know, people giving him advice, like, they're not going to remember any of these fun 303 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:52,560 things you're doing with them. It's like, what, you just want me to lock them in a room and say, 304 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:57,280 do you remember what happened yesterday? No, okay. You remember me. I just like an amazing bit, 305 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:03,520 but it's really struck a chord with me because I felt like, you know, it's not what our kids remember 306 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:08,080 that's necessarily the most important because our connection with them, that relationship 307 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,560 that we build with them is actually stronger than memories. You know, memories fade, but that 308 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:17,360 relationship stays forever. And so, you know, I thought about my, my research that I've done 309 00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:23,120 with the Full Youth Institute as well as on parenting and classes I've taken, kind of just 310 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:26,720 bringing back to the simple things, but the simple things can be hard, right? But of 311 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:34,720 doing three things, listen to your kids, share with them, and I can spend more of what that means. 312 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:40,000 But also repair, like when you mess up, yeah, you don't have to be perfect, just have a good enough. 313 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:45,120 But if, you know, we need to be able to apologize and make amends with our kids. 314 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:54,240 Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, as I think with any of us, you know, we come into, 315 00:18:54,240 --> 00:19:02,400 and this comes up on the show frequently, you know, we come at this parenting thing with a lot of 316 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:10,000 our own, you know, our parenting frequently reflects in one way or the other, one direction 317 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:18,480 or the other, the parenting that we receive, who we saw in our moms and our dads and how they 318 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:24,480 approached. And in this article, Caleb, so you share, your dad, you lost your dad about 10 years ago. 319 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:36,000 Tell me about his influence in your life, what you sort of take away in terms of your 320 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:43,520 own parenting journey, like what you've drawn from that. Because I think, you know, those 321 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,920 reflections are important too. Like we don't start with a blank page on any of this stuff. We have, 322 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:52,320 you know, whether we recognize it or not, there's definitely some things kind of hardwired in or, 323 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:58,480 I gosh, I still feel like this to this day, I'm still remembering things that my dad did 324 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,760 in a new way now that I'm a father, right? So I just wonder, I just wonder about that about your 325 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:08,240 own, about your own dad and kind of as you've reflected on that, what's kind of come to your 326 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:17,120 mind? Yeah, yeah, thanks for asking that. I'll first just say I was very, I'm very grateful to have 327 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:24,080 had a really amazing dad. My childhood years are just like great memories with him playing sports 328 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:32,720 together, games, wrestling, you know, all the fun stuff. When I was 13, he got diagnosed with ALS. 329 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:39,680 And that really shifted our whole family dynamics, shifted our relationships with my dad. 330 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:46,000 He was still who he was, but this was, you know, kind of a giant cannonball just like dropped in 331 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:52,560 our family. And so a lot shifted. And so I feel like I can have experience of both having, you 332 00:20:52,560 --> 00:21:00,400 know, that amazing kind of large in life hero dad and seeing just the fragility of life and seeing 333 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:06,400 his humanity. And even at times, you know, I am so grateful for all everything he's done. But 334 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:11,280 times where, you know, he, he was trying to figure out his own life and it was harder for him to, 335 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:17,920 you know, necessarily be pouring in as much into each of us. And so I can relate to both like the 336 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,800 amazingness of having a really present and engaged dad and also when a dad is going through something 337 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:28,480 that makes it just harder to have that same exact connection. And yeah, and then since my dad's past, 338 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,600 just giving me, yeah, it's kind of hard to believe, but yeah, this past November is 10 years. 339 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:39,360 Wow. And just a lot of time to reflect on just the impact. And I was just thinking about like, 340 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:46,800 I still feel so connected to my dad. Oh, great. And a lot of it is just like he, he did listen to me. 341 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:52,000 You know, he did share his life with me. And he was one of those, you know, I felt like even a 342 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,840 rare dad or he apologized, you know, when he felt like he did something wrong. I was like, 343 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,480 those types of things, like I'm going to feel connected to him in my whole life, even if it's, 344 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:06,400 you know, on season, what is it 90 and we're all all in gray. I still feel that connection 345 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:13,200 to my dad and I'm just grateful for that. Yeah, that's, I think, I think we would all say as dads, 346 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:21,520 like, that's a great litmus test of when I am gone, what will my kids remember? What will, 347 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:29,280 what will come to the surface? What will they say about me to my, you know, to my grandchildren? 348 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:35,440 What will those, you know, so there's a, the legacy, the legacy thing there is always important. 349 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:42,160 Some people, I think some, some men in particular think about legacy in less helpful ways. They're 350 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,600 like, they just, they want to be remembered regardless of what they actually did in life. 351 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,760 They want to be remembered in a certain, in a certain way. It's like, I want to be remembered 352 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,800 accurately, right. But favorably would be nice, you know, would be nice too. 353 00:22:54,800 --> 00:23:02,560 But I think Caleb's just really, really beautiful. And as you said that, I just like, 354 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:08,480 gosh, I want, that's, that's a really thing that I want. Like I want, you know, I want 355 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:15,040 that connection to still be there in a meaningful way that, that's something about my life 356 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,920 is still an active presence after, you know, after I'm off, I've left this earth and I've, 357 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:26,960 you know, gone, gone, gone on to, to be with God, like, you know, that, yeah, that, that there's 358 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:33,120 been that, that positive deposit into life. And I, I just have to imagine that you're part of the 359 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:38,560 good work that you're doing. I, it just seems to me is probably fueled, fueled by that in a 360 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:43,680 significant way. I'm guessing. Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I feel like it's 361 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:50,720 this combination of what got my dad's given me and how much I want to share that with my own kids. 362 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:56,880 And also just a sense of like, I've learned and grown so much through being a dad. And I, 363 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,960 I really feel like the sense of calling a purpose around supporting other dads that, you know, 364 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:06,080 that there's so much that's so challenging about being a dad that's really present and engaged. 365 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,800 But there's also, at least in my experience, nothing that can help you grow into the person 366 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:17,200 that you're meant to be, then leaning into that role and that calling. And so, yeah, but 367 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:22,400 absolutely I'm fueled by my relationship with my dad. Yeah, 100%. 368 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:28,480 So Caleb, you've said, you listed three, three, three things and that's where I want to dive into. 369 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:35,920 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you said the relationship component, you said first and foremost, listen, 370 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:42,560 which boy oh boy. Well, I think that's even, I mean, that's hard. I mean, 371 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,800 especially when we were talking about before, when they're young, when you're saying things like, 372 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:53,920 because I said so, or whatever it may be, because you know, I'm your dad, like for you to, to, 373 00:24:53,920 --> 00:25:01,040 to listen sometimes, that's really hard. So I guess, yeah, Caleb, tell us, tell us about that and 374 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:08,400 tell us what, what lists, like how, how do we listen? How, how should we listen? Yeah, yeah, 375 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:15,440 great question. I think in so many ways, it's like sadly a forgotten skill in our culture about like, 376 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:21,600 what does it mean to truly listen? Not listen in order to respond, but like listen in order to 377 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:28,080 understand and even empathize. Like when I, my kids are just, you know, really struggling emotionally, 378 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,960 having to melt down or whatever it is. You know, what does it look like for me as a dad to like, 379 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:40,320 and just listen to get what they're going through, understanding that there's this amazing quote 380 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:46,880 that being heard is so close to the feeling of being loved, most people can't tell the 381 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:52,800 difference. Oh, come on now. Yeah, that'll preach. Yeah. And just like that, that is just like such a 382 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:59,280 weight that one of the simplest, most profound, but yet nevertheless difficult things to do is just 383 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:06,560 simply listen to our kids, you know, put down the cell phone, eye contact, and I, you know, I, 384 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:12,640 I'm championing the importance of this. And I don't do it on 100%. Right? Like my mind sometimes 385 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:17,520 wanders, all the things, but like, but I know I'm giving my kids a true gift when I'm just 386 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,160 offering that like undivided presence and attention and just truly listening to them. 387 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:28,480 They feel understood, they feel sleep. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I, and I think, 388 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:37,840 you know, my kids, I'm guessing most of this way, I know the teenagers that I worked with for years 389 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:44,640 for this way, they can tell the difference between you listening to understand 390 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:51,840 and you listening as you wait for your turn to speak to them. And 391 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:59,440 and sometimes in the, you know, gosh, in the pace of the day and the whatever, it's like, 392 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:05,280 okay, I'm okay, tell me your thing, tell me your thing. Okay, so thank you for sharing. Now, 393 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:14,480 I need you to X, XYZ, right? And when that's happening, when that sort of listening quote 394 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,800 unquote listening, which is not really true listening is happening in the light of, you know, 395 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:25,600 the really conversation we're having here, that is not a relationship builder. That is a, that is a, 396 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:38,000 that's it's doing the opposite. And I think there's, gosh, there's maybe no harder word to hear than 397 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:44,080 dad, you never listened to me like that's, that's, that's hard. I have, yeah, yeah. And I've heard 398 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,720 that recently. I don't know if any of you guys have heard, have ever heard that, but like I have 399 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:55,680 heard something similar to that recently. And that's, that's a hard one. It's probably kind of a 400 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:02,240 yeah, gut check of like, okay, what, what does my, am I distracted? Like, like, 401 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:07,840 Caleb mentioned, am I distracted by something else or, or am I really, am I present there? 402 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:14,160 Recognizing and dad's friends, I hope you hear this listeners. I hope you hear this 403 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:20,080 the way Caleb said, I think was perfect. It is a gift, undivided attention, listening intentionally 404 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:25,360 with a purpose to understand is a gift to our kids and they receive it that way. 405 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:28,880 One of the things that I liked about the article that Caleb was you did say, you know, 406 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,760 if you want to know that their love, listen to them and then you say, hear their stories, 407 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:41,360 empathize with their pains, no fixing the situation allowed, even if it is called for, 408 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,120 that can, that can be later. And so those are three things that I really, I really like because 409 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:50,320 you're, you're giving them 100% undivided. Again, you said, they can sit earlier, put the phone down, 410 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,120 but, but those are those things like if you're hearing their stories and you can 411 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:58,160 recall details of their stories back to them, they're going to know that you're hearing them. 412 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,520 And then again, you may not, I mean, it may be a while since you've been a middle school boy 413 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:08,800 or girl, if you're a mom or whatever, but if they're coming to you with pains, 414 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:15,440 as a dad, you may not understand that, especially if you're a dad and it's a girl. I mean, that's 415 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:21,120 sometimes the hardest to go because I know how I felt growing up as a boy, but I don't know what 416 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:26,560 it felt like growing up as a girl. And so my daughter has things that she's dealing with that 417 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,280 are different than mine, but I can still empathize with her pains. And then again, just listening 418 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:36,240 to it, you know, as a dad, especially when your kids are hurting, you want to try and fix it because 419 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:41,920 you, you don't like when your family is hurting, but just listen to them and take it in. 420 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,560 And it's the same. And we have overlapping conversations. Caleb, I don't know about you 421 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:52,320 and your wife, but it's also true sometimes like the fix it mode thing is the easy place for us to go 422 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,920 in meaningful conversations with those that we love. And sometimes they just want us to listen. 423 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:04,800 And then I know that sometimes like my wife is notorious for, I want you to listen because it's 424 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:11,120 just like, it's an experience for her of externally processing something. And that in 425 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,400 of itself will have them in a good and healthy direction apart from, you know, whatever words 426 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:22,880 that I have to say that may not actually be of any value whatsoever, other than I was just a 427 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:29,040 person there that they cared about them that just sit there and listen. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, 428 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:35,280 I think about, you know, practical, practical problems can be fixed, right? But if it's an 429 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:40,880 emotional one, you know, what fixing looks like is actually just emphasizing understanding, making 430 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,040 somebody feel, you know, a child feel like, Oh, you, you hear me, you understand what I'm going 431 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:51,280 through. You know, and Andy, you mentioned, you know, you might not totally understand like why 432 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:58,320 your kid, you know, your middle school girl, child, daughter is feeling this way. But you don't 433 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,160 actually have to understand why or think it's legitimate that she's feeling that way in order 434 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,800 to empathize. All you have to do is go, Okay, I recognize what you're feeling, you know, or, 435 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:13,760 and, you know, allow her to correct you if you say the wrong word. And you go to a place where 436 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,720 you understand what that feeling feels like, you know, and that's that sharing about, okay, 437 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,080 we understand one another. I know what it feels like. I don't know exactly what you're going 438 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:27,040 through, but I know what it feels like to feel rejected. That that creates a connection. 439 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:34,640 Yeah, absolutely. So after we do all this listening work, there's more, there's more to be done, 440 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:40,160 because you list after listening, you say, a important part of this relationship building 441 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:46,720 process is to share. What do we mean? Yeah, I mean, I think sharing looks like so many different 442 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,440 things. But I think one of the key things is just sharing experiences together, right? I mean, 443 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,200 some of these things come natural to us as dads, but those opportunities where you're 444 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,920 maybe even intentionally creating memories, you know, memories are great, but creating those 445 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:04,160 experiences together, doing things together, allowing them to share in your life and yours 446 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:09,760 in theirs, whether you'd like to go camping or sharing sports or play board games or whatever 447 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:15,040 it is, just share experience together. That's going to build your relationship so much, 448 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:23,280 because it's quality time and there's chance for interaction, you know, emotionally, physically, 449 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,840 all the different ways that when you have those shared experiences. 450 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:34,480 Yeah, we're, as I've shared several times on the show, something that a goal of mine right now is 451 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:41,840 after each of my kids turn 13, usually the spring or summer after they turn 13, they get to pick a 452 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:50,000 trip that we go on together. It's just the two of us. And I've really been thinking about, 453 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:55,520 I think the challenge for me, like, so my next son, he turns 13 in March and we're talking about 454 00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:03,200 doing a hiking trip out West and I'm, this particular trip will take a lot of preparation. 455 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,360 And it's going to, for even me physically, like what I have to do to get ready for this is like, 456 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:16,000 it's going to be a thing. And I have felt this, you know, I have felt this tension and a little bit 457 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:21,040 of anxiety around it, because I want everything to go well. Like I want all the details of that 458 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:26,720 experience with him to go well, right? At the same time, you know, I kind of came back to the other 459 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,040 day, I was just trying to recenter myself on like, why am I doing this? What are the purposes? 460 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,880 It is to share in the experience together, because that's the thing 461 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:46,640 realistically that he will remember. And in not whether or not, you know, every single hike that 462 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:51,600 we wanted to go on or whatever thing just went exactly as planned and, you know, that we covered, 463 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,440 you know, this many miles per day or blah, blah, blah, whatever the case might be. 464 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:04,240 But that we set along, you know, we set aside what really is sacred time to share together. And 465 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:10,960 so I just, I'm grateful for that, Keele. Like that's a helpful reminder just in the sharing 466 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:17,200 in the sharing part of what actually is making the difference, what is actually making the impact. 467 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:25,760 And sometimes it's not all the details that we think have to be have to be lined up. At least I 468 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:33,200 hope I hope not because I'm like, I can get trapped in the weeds. I can get kind of get into a 469 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:37,040 mentally bad place and trapped in the weeds. Does that make sense? Like, you know, trapped in the 470 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:42,560 weeds and stuff like that. And it's like, gosh, Joel, like, you gotta think about this differently, 471 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:48,080 hopefully. Oh, yeah, you know, I totally agree. You know, you mentioned at the beginning, you know, 472 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:54,240 that this coaching, you know, business I've started and blog about good enough dads, 473 00:34:54,800 --> 00:35:00,160 it really came out of this sense of, you know, I'm a recovering perfectionist myself. And so I 474 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,000 kept feeling like I had to focus on like doing everything perfectly as a dad, even though it 475 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,000 wasn't fully conscious. I thought, no, I don't feel that way. But really, I was driving so much. 476 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:13,360 And then I read book after book. And there's so much research that says you don't have to be a 477 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:20,480 perfect dad. You just need to be good enough. And I really believe that, you know, good enough dads 478 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:25,280 can have great relationships with their kids. That's great. And thinking about your planning, 479 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:31,360 right, you don't have to have a perfect trip. Personally, when I look back on different 480 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:36,080 experiences, whether it was with my parents or at camp or whatever it was, when everything went haywire, 481 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:41,600 I mean, those are the stories that we tell. Those are the stories that get handed down from generation 482 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:47,200 to generation. You know, it wasn't like how fluffy the pillow was, it was, you know, the lightning 483 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:53,360 struck right next to the tent, you know, whatever it is. But so I just think like, just being in it 484 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,920 for the relationship and, you know, even communicating, you know, with your son, you know, 485 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,480 like, what's the meaning of it? You know, if you don't don't just share experiences, 486 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:08,720 but you also talk about like what the experience means. Yeah. That just like deepens it and this 487 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:12,720 makes it so much more rich and so much more memorable. And that connection is like, oh, 488 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:16,960 it's not just we like to spend time together, but it means something like you're 13 now, 489 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,720 this is this is something we've done for each of our kids at 13. And this is why 490 00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:25,840 like that, those types of things just leave a mark. Well, and I think again, like you said, 491 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:31,520 those little things, even if it doesn't really matter, you know, grand or small, your events, 492 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,520 your memories that you're making with them, you know, I can remember several times. And I think 493 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,120 I've talked about it on the show before, but like where we would, especially when the kids were 494 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,680 younger, it's harder to do now that a lot of mine are older. But when they were younger, like just 495 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:50,960 even going to like Lowe's or Menards and walking around and just making memories together. But 496 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:56,240 like you said, it can be the big things too that you go on a trip and it's crazy because like, 497 00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:01,600 I remember going one time to Texas to this quote unquote zoo. Oh, yes. That literally like we pull 498 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,080 up and there's the what looks like cattle panels holding the tigers back and it's not. 499 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:12,880 They have different zoo rules down in Texas. Caleb, I don't know. I've been to the San Diego zoo 500 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:18,960 and it was lovely and very well fortified. But Texas, this is not a zoo. Like it was like someone's 501 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:24,960 backyard, like a 10 acre. It was bad. It was bad. It's the best story ever. But my kids, 502 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:31,280 I say that story now because my kids continue even now to this day to talk about it. And it was 503 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,800 only the older three that were with me. Our youngest wasn't with us. It wasn't born yet. And 504 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:42,560 like they, you know, they talk about it all the time about this zoo that we went to. But again, 505 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:47,680 memories are made and that's the important part. I felt scared for my life, but memories were made. 506 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:52,160 Yeah. And that's in, you know, it was like the trip that my eldest son, Aaron, we took a trip this 507 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:59,680 past spring. We did a, we did some of my oldest son, it's baseball all the way for him. And so we 508 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:05,680 went to spring training out in Arizona. And then I had a hiking trip planned and well, as it turns 509 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:10,400 out, they had a late season snowfall and all the hiking trails that we were going to go on were 510 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,560 covered in four foot of snow and we couldn't, we couldn't get access and things like that. 511 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:20,160 And I remember in the back of my mind just going, this thing is falling apart. Like this is not, 512 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:25,760 because we did try to take one hike and we made it all of like a hundred yards and Aaron's like, 513 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,440 dad, I don't think we're going to be able to pull this off. Cause it was like, I mean, he's in snow 514 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,400 up to his, up to his waist and he's like, we, we can't do a two mile hike like this. And I'm like, 515 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:41,520 no, we cannot. And, and he, you know what, but to your point Caleb, I mean, same deal, 516 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,520 like he mentions that now he laughs about that. And he was like, it was so funny though, you know, 517 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,840 it was just so, such a funny thing. And I'm like, gosh, I'm so glad you remembered that way. Cause I 518 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,240 was like, dog gone. This is a significant portion of what I like, cause this was like one of the 519 00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:58,960 experiences I wanted to go on this hike with him and do, you know, and I don't know, and talk about 520 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,440 all the important things of like, like have a climb up the mountain and have a life talk about 521 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,680 all the important things that you need to know as a young man. It didn't go how you want it in your 522 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:14,560 head. No, no, not at all. And, and yet, and yet it was exactly what it needed to be in terms of, 523 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:19,120 you know, in terms of how he remembers it and how he talks about it. Now you, the last thing that 524 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,680 you mentioned in this blog about the three proven ways to build lasting relationships is repair. 525 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:31,440 And that's hard. Oh gosh. Very, very hard. So can you talk a little bit about 526 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,800 what it looks like to repair relationships with your kids? 527 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:42,400 Yeah, definitely. I think when we do apologize and make amends with our kids when we repair, 528 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:47,600 we're doing so many different things. One, we, we are repairing our relationship, right? 529 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,120 Relationships are always going to have like some pulling away and some pulling together. 530 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,800 We just want more pulling together than pulling away. So we're always going to have those moments. 531 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,040 But the other thing that we're doing is we're actually modeling for our kids how to 532 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:05,600 do this well, right? So, you know, as we get better at apologizing, just owning it, and it 533 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:10,560 doesn't have to be a big thing, but just saying, yeah, you want to mess up, I'm sorry. You know, 534 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:17,600 I understand how you feel. How can I make it right? That, that allows you just kind of come 535 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:23,200 back together. And it also just demonstrates to our kids that, oh, our, our relationship is stronger 536 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:29,680 than any, any mistakes we make, right? That this one of the things that for me, why, 537 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:36,160 you know, the good enough dads, that title, that name for this, you know, organization resonates, 538 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:41,120 resonated with me was that I, you know, as I was learning about parenting and doing all the stuff, 539 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:47,280 you know, there's this one book that talked about that if you're actually focused on being perfect, 540 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:52,240 it's actually detrimental to your child because you're more focused on your own performance 541 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:58,800 than you are on the relationship. So if you mess up and you're thinking, shoot, did I really mess 542 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,960 up? No, actually, you're doing all these mental gymnastics. They really, it wasn't me, you know, 543 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:08,560 is they, you know, they way out of line, rather just think, okay, what is it? What is our relationship 544 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:13,600 mean right now? And how can I bridge to any gaps that are there and take ownership of what I did 545 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:18,960 wrong? That, that's what creates, you know, that solid relationship. Yeah, so that's what comes 546 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:27,840 to mind with that. Yeah, I've, I'm, of course, I had to have this conversation tonight because 547 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:34,080 I'm aware of a repair thing that I need to do with at least two of my children right now. And 548 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:43,520 you know, I just think, I think about that as an opportunity, and I'm aware like that is an 549 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:48,320 opportunity, it's an opportunity that I don't want to miss out on. I don't want to leave something 550 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:54,160 undone there. As I've just sort of been thinking about today, like, I don't want to leave something 551 00:41:54,160 --> 00:42:00,800 undone, because then that also teaches them that it's okay, like it, that it's okay to leave that 552 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:05,120 sort of stuff, like it's, it's okay to leave those sort of things kind of loose ends and, and just 553 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:11,120 kind of let them hang out there. Where, you know, if they've, if I've done something that I'm not, 554 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:16,000 I'm not proud of that I've said something or acted in a way that I'm, that I should not have and I 555 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:22,960 should be asking for forgiveness. And I don't, that models to them the same thing, right? That it's 556 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:29,920 like, eh, you know, like people will forget, it'll blow over over, you know, in time, people will 557 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:38,640 forget about it. It won't matter as much anymore. And man, I know we've been talking about memories 558 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:45,920 and what kids remember and how important those memories are, you know, how, how impactful they 559 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:51,360 can be in light of the, in light of relationship as relationship is, is feeding into them. And, 560 00:42:51,360 --> 00:43:00,880 you know, it's like, I don't know, I think, I don't want a bad story to be written relationally 561 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:06,560 because I left that sort of thing undone. I didn't, because I didn't pursue the repair part. 562 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:14,720 And if we're real honest, I mean, it's kind of like, you know, this is really about our onigo and, 563 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:20,880 you know, I think it can be hard maybe for some of us as, as men to be like, 564 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:28,320 oh, I need to go apologize to a child. Like if we're honest, like that can, that can seem 565 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,560 like what's, you know, like it, 566 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:35,040 Well, especially, especially if your pride is there and you still have that whole like, 567 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:40,800 you need to listen to me because I'm your dad. Because then, then that, for you to apologize, 568 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:46,160 that means that you were wrong to begin with. And it means that, that they, you know, maybe 569 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:51,360 shouldn't have listened to you because you were wrong. So yeah, that's definitely, as a parent 570 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:57,200 can be tough. Yeah. So it turns, turns out, I mean, you know, fatherhood has this way of like 571 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:03,760 humbling you, hopefully, in all the, in so many ways. Number one, when you know you messed up, 572 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:08,320 number two, when you don't have all the resources that you, you need in order to do it, and then 573 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:16,160 you have to seek help in other, in other ways. So, so yeah, I think, Caleb, I think those are 574 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:22,400 three helpful categories. There's just sort of keeping the, in the loop in our, in our head, 575 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:28,160 like at any given time, like, you know, are we, are we doing them? Are we doing them well? You know, 576 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:34,160 are we, are we, I don't know, maybe making a little bit of a, I don't know, a checklist in our 577 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,080 brain ongoing, right? Like, Hey, what about listening? What about sharing? What about repairing? 578 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:44,240 Listen, share, repair. And I like them because they rhyme. They do. It just rolls, it rolls 579 00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:48,400 right off the tongue. Yes. Which something tells me, Caleb, that you did it on purpose. I'm just 580 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:53,360 going to, I'm going to give you the best of the doubt. I'm just going to say you were strategic 581 00:44:53,360 --> 00:45:00,240 in what you were doing there. So well done. Well, thank you. Thank you. And I mean, and just to jump 582 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:04,400 on one of the things you just said though, about that, how can be difficult to apologize? I think 583 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:09,600 if we kind of reframe it in our minds as dads about what does it mean to parent? What does it 584 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:17,920 mean to father? Well, I think one of our primary roles as dads is to model and show for our kids 585 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:25,120 how to be human. And I think that that acknowledgement of making mistakes and knowing how to handle that 586 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:32,400 and preparing relationships, like that's saying, I'm human, you're human. And we don't need to put 587 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:37,600 as much as anything on as dads. I want to be the super dad, right? Like that's like I want to be 588 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:43,760 that. But at the same time, I have a responsibility to my kids to show them what it is to be human. 589 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:50,800 And that's a gift as well. And I think too, that goes along well to with the way that you treat 590 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:57,920 your wife. It, you know, your kids should see you fight and have disagreements and also should see 591 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:04,480 you make up and apologize and say that you were wrong because in the long run, you don't want 592 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:09,360 them to go into a marriage relationship thinking everything is going to always be 100% flowers and 593 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:15,840 roses because it's not. And, and you bet you also want to see that you want your kids to see that 594 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:22,240 you deeply love their mom as well as being able to this is how like you said, this is how a real 595 00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:27,600 relationship happens. You know, people, people offend each other, people have disagreements, 596 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:32,800 but it's okay. We can come back and we can apologize and we can work out that, that relationship. 597 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:43,680 Yeah, definitely. So Caleb, we, as always, are super grateful for these amazing things that 598 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:49,120 you've shared. We will, we're going to make the website and Caleb's contact, whatever, 599 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,760 whatever Caleb wants to put out on the internet, we'll put out on the internet over the show 600 00:46:53,760 --> 00:47:00,640 notes for this episode over at dudesanddads.com, dudesanddadspodcast.com. Again, a little rusty, 601 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:09,040 new year. We'll get back on the horse. But yeah, on the show notes. But before we let Caleb go, 602 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:13,600 as is always the case, he must submit to the rigors of. 603 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,040 And now it's time for the dudes and dads pop quiz. 604 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:22,160 Perfect. Yes. There we go. I had the audio too low. Again, it's been too long. 605 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,200 It's okay. We're going to get it. We will get it back on it. 606 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:31,120 Caleb, this is a time where we ask you questions to help get us get to know you just a little bit 607 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,800 better. There's no way you can prepare for this. There's no way you can even begin to 608 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:41,040 anticipate what we are going to ask. But Andy's got some cards. He's got the cards. I'm, I'm, 609 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:45,120 I've got a few new questions in the hopper. Oh, so you guys, I see how it is. You go away on a 610 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:50,560 trip to California and you come back with new, new questions. It's, it's new. It's improved and 611 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:55,920 it's fresh. I should have known. I should have known. Do you want me to start with my questions? 612 00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:00,480 Okay. So here's question number one. Caleb, how many hammers do you have in your home? 613 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:11,840 Two and also three more that are plastic. Nice. Okay. Congratulations. Yes. I came up with this 614 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:16,320 question today when we're, we're cleaning out a storage area and the number of different sorts 615 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,320 of hammers that I came in contact with was alarming. And I was like, how many people, 616 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:25,040 do people know how many hammers they have in their house? Cause I didn't until today. 617 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,000 I thought I did, but every time I go to look for one, I can never find one. Bingo. 618 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,600 I'm actually looking for it. Bingo. It's probably in my storage room where I found all the rest of 619 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:36,880 them. It probably is. All right. If you could send a message to the entire world, what would it say 620 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:43,200 in just 30 seconds? I repeat what I said before, but you don't have to be a perfect dad to have 621 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:47,280 great relationships with your kids. That relationship you have with your kids is going 622 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,640 to make your life better. It's going to make them their life better. And you're actually going to 623 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:57,360 make the world better. Good enough dads can change the world. Oh, come on. Caleb. Caleb, my next 624 00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:02,960 question is if you could become instantly an expert at one thing, what would that one thing be? 625 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:09,840 I have so many things floating through my mind right now. I know, but this is, I want to give 626 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:15,040 full credit. This is, this is my wife's question. This is, uh, she, she gave this one to me and 627 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:22,880 I think it's great. So that's why I'm trying it out on you. Let's see. I, every time I'm up hiking 628 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:29,520 in the mountains, I have this, like every time it is a beautiful view and like there's like a 629 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:36,160 valley going down, I just picture myself hang lighting from that to down to the valley below. 630 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:42,080 So if I could just be an expert on that, catch me hang lighting expert hang glider. Okay. Great. 631 00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,280 All right. What is the worst job that you've ever had? 632 00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:54,560 And hopefully your ex-boss is not listening. It will. Maybe they are. Maybe they are. It was a, 633 00:49:54,560 --> 00:50:00,640 it was a summer job in between, you know, we know a year of college, I mean next year of college, 634 00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:13,040 selling time shares. I remember this one time I was at a water park and nobody has anything to 635 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:17,200 sign up for anything there. They just, they're just wearing their swimsuits. This person, 636 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,080 you know, you try to memorize, you don't ask the same person more than once, uh, 637 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:24,400 you know, if they want to sign up for anything and you know, this person kept changing 638 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:28,800 her outfit and who she was with. And I asked her like five times if she was ready to beat me up. 639 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:34,480 It was terrible. Gosh. The moment you said time share sales, I just, there's a, 640 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:40,960 so I have a story. So when we, we were just in Branson, right? And Julie came back after she 641 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:45,120 checked in and said, Hey, if we go to this thing on Friday, I'm going to give us money. 642 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,240 This whole thing. And we debated and we debated and we finally called them back and said, 643 00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:52,640 we're not going to come to your thing. No amount of money is worth me listening to your time share. 644 00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,880 Yeah. I've gotten, I've gotten suckered into one of those things. I almost, I almost did 645 00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,880 because it was like, there's money involved. But then, yeah, they offered a pretty sweet deal. 646 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:06,320 It was not, it was not worth it. No, no. Yeah. And I, I wasn't the one of the actual salespeople. 647 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:11,520 I was just trying to get them to come like, spin a wheel. Oh, right. Like just give them an email. 648 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:16,080 You know, that's how they get you. That's how they get you guys. Uh, let's see. 649 00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,840 I'll spin the wheel. Yeah. Don't spin the wheel. Don't do it. That's good life advice. 650 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,760 In general, stay away from wheels that you should be or should not be spinning. 651 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:35,200 Caleb, if you were to write a book about your life so far, what's the title? 652 00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:44,720 I, this is also, I've noticed so many things floating through my mind here about my life so far. 653 00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,720 He's so thoughtful, which is what I appreciate. I'm too thoughtful. 654 00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:53,120 Like podcast, like, where does this guy go? He disappeared. 655 00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:58,400 I would have to say, don't hold me to this. I might change the title later. 656 00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,520 You're allowed. You're allowed. It's a working title. Yeah. 657 00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:11,200 From son to father and back again. Oh, come on. Write it down. Write it down. And Andy, 658 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:16,880 mute Caleb real quick. Let's see if we can trade market and get the domain right now. 659 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:22,640 Get the domain right now. Wow. Well, that nailed it. Great. 660 00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:28,080 All right. My last question, and this is a go to doads and dads podcast question. 661 00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:32,400 If there was a sandwich named after you, what would be on it? 662 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:39,920 I would have to say it's tri-tip and arugula and horseradish on a chabata bun. 663 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:46,080 Okay. So Caleb, I don't know if you know this or not, but tri-tip is a unique California thing. 664 00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,680 Are you? It is. It's not. You guys not have cows out there? 665 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:57,440 We do. No one talks about tri-tip out here though. But last time, so my uncle, 666 00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:05,120 uncle by marriage, uncle Tom out in Bakersfield, that dude does a mean tri-tip. I never had it before. 667 00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:10,720 And I'm like, it was magical. So just once you know, the rest of the country, or at least parts 668 00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:15,680 of it, is missing out on this tri-tip phenomenon to be just either something special going on 669 00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:20,400 on the West coast when it comes to tri-tip. I don't know. I don't know what else to say. 670 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:26,080 Hey, who knew Caleb? Congratulations. You have successfully passed the doods and dads 671 00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:32,640 pop quiz way to go. Way to go. There is no award, but if we had one, we would give it to you. 672 00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:38,960 Thank you. Awesome. Well, hey, everybody, as always, like we said, you can head over to 673 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:46,160 dudesanddadspodcast.com to find all the good news about our episodes, every single one of them. 674 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:52,880 And we're back. And all that. We're back recording. All of Caleb's goodies will be over there as well, 675 00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:58,160 so you can check in on the website, the blogs, the coaching services, all that. 676 00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,800 And I'm going to continue to hammer this one in. We do have a voicemail. 677 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,560 Don't go out. Leave a voice message. We love them. 678 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:11,680 At 574-213-8702. Making your New Year's resolution to leave us a voicemail. 679 00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:18,560 People for the love. Come on. Hey, everybody, dudesanddadspodcast@gmail.com. You can leave us 680 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:23,280 an email as well. We like emails. We love for show ideas and all that good stuff. Appreciate it, 681 00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:28,960 chef. Hey, guys, thanks for being with us. We're looking forward to a great 2024 and season six. 682 00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:35,200 And until next time, we wish you grace and peace.