1 00:00:01,101 --> 00:00:03,636 Hello and welcome to Karate Chop Bullying 2 00:00:03,636 --> 00:00:06,639 where we're here to break the silence. 3 00:00:06,706 --> 00:00:10,543 Today on the show, we have personal fitness expert Sandy Griffin, who's 4 00:00:10,543 --> 00:00:14,681 going to tell us about her experiences with workplace bullying. 5 00:00:15,081 --> 00:00:18,752 But before that, we're going to have a little discussion of our own about 6 00:00:18,752 --> 00:00:21,955 whether it is a good idea to just call a business 7 00:00:21,955 --> 00:00:24,958 out online. 8 00:00:30,196 --> 00:00:31,364 Thank you for joining us. 9 00:00:31,364 --> 00:00:32,565 I'm Bruce Jackson. 10 00:00:32,565 --> 00:00:36,536 And joining me now is, of course, my compatriot, Tim Flynn. 11 00:00:36,836 --> 00:00:38,671 Tim, how are you doing today? 12 00:00:38,671 --> 00:00:41,007 It's another day. I'm doing just fine. 13 00:00:41,007 --> 00:00:42,308 How about yourself? 14 00:00:42,308 --> 00:00:43,843 Well, it's another day for me, too. 15 00:00:43,843 --> 00:00:46,813 And tomorrow there'll be another one. Yes. 16 00:00:46,813 --> 00:00:50,750 However, didn't you have a little experience in the last other day? 17 00:00:50,784 --> 00:00:53,787 That was yesterday. 18 00:00:53,953 --> 00:00:56,423 I don't know if it was like another experience, 19 00:00:56,423 --> 00:00:59,959 but I'm a part of a few of these anti-bullying groups on the Facebook. 20 00:01:00,226 --> 00:01:01,394 On the Facebook. 21 00:01:01,394 --> 00:01:04,230 And Facebook, where you're on Facebook. 22 00:01:04,230 --> 00:01:05,799 On Facebook. 23 00:01:05,799 --> 00:01:07,367 And there's just one group 24 00:01:07,367 --> 00:01:10,370 that has a little bit more chatter because they are bigger. 25 00:01:10,837 --> 00:01:15,241 And I totally get this post and this person made this anonymous post. 26 00:01:15,775 --> 00:01:19,712 This person wants to make a Facebook group 27 00:01:19,712 --> 00:01:23,049 page to bash in other business 28 00:01:23,049 --> 00:01:26,052 because that person knows they treat your staff very poorly. 29 00:01:26,252 --> 00:01:27,720 So what do they want to do? 30 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,990 Just to be clear, they want to put up a hate group for this 31 00:01:30,990 --> 00:01:34,561 business across the street and just talk smack about them. 32 00:01:34,928 --> 00:01:35,261 Yeah. 33 00:01:35,261 --> 00:01:39,332 So this anti-bullying Facebook group wants to make their own bullying Facebook 34 00:01:39,332 --> 00:01:43,770 group to bash a business that they know are treating their employees poorly. 35 00:01:44,370 --> 00:01:45,772 Okay. 36 00:01:45,772 --> 00:01:48,775 I guess my first question would be, how do they know this? 37 00:01:49,542 --> 00:01:52,545 That's a great question that they do not go into the details of it. 38 00:01:53,246 --> 00:01:56,883 So the comment that I made to that post was be careful. 39 00:01:57,183 --> 00:01:59,552 Slander is punishable. 40 00:01:59,552 --> 00:02:02,455 After I post the comment, one person comes up, well, 41 00:02:02,455 --> 00:02:05,458 so is bullying and abuse at work. P.S. 42 00:02:05,758 --> 00:02:07,727 Not if it's true. 43 00:02:07,727 --> 00:02:09,696 And then someone comes to this person's aid. 44 00:02:09,696 --> 00:02:13,233 I guess my comment is not slander if it's facts 45 00:02:14,100 --> 00:02:16,503 and then it keeps going on. 46 00:02:16,503 --> 00:02:19,139 At the end of this thread, 47 00:02:19,139 --> 00:02:21,841 I'm like, you know, get a lawyer involved. 48 00:02:21,841 --> 00:02:23,843 They understand the law. 49 00:02:23,843 --> 00:02:25,812 Let them deal with this. 50 00:02:25,812 --> 00:02:31,284 If this business is bullying their staff, we don't want that business to win. 51 00:02:31,651 --> 00:02:35,522 So if we go and start naming this business on Facebook 52 00:02:35,522 --> 00:02:38,958 saying, hey, they treat their employees poorly, they're harassing them. 53 00:02:39,259 --> 00:02:41,060 We're making all these comments. 54 00:02:41,060 --> 00:02:44,130 That business still has a right to defend themselves. 55 00:02:44,430 --> 00:02:46,766 And I think it is the law. Prove it. 56 00:02:46,766 --> 00:02:48,268 You're innocent until proven guilty. 57 00:02:48,268 --> 00:02:51,404 We cannot be the judge and a jury and shame 58 00:02:51,404 --> 00:02:54,507 a business that we may not know both sides of it. 59 00:02:54,974 --> 00:02:56,342 The perks of working with kids. 60 00:02:56,342 --> 00:02:59,345 I get to hear stories like this from kids points of view as well. 61 00:02:59,479 --> 00:03:00,647 I had this one kid. 62 00:03:00,647 --> 00:03:02,248 This boy was picking on him, 63 00:03:02,248 --> 00:03:06,052 and this kid lost it because this student was sick of being bullied. 64 00:03:06,419 --> 00:03:07,053 So let's do it. 65 00:03:07,053 --> 00:03:09,422 Punches this bully in the shoulder. 66 00:03:09,422 --> 00:03:10,523 While there was a time 67 00:03:10,523 --> 00:03:14,494 when the teacher happened to look over and catch the punch on their shoulder. 68 00:03:14,894 --> 00:03:19,365 So my student had to apologize to her bully and say sorry. 69 00:03:19,399 --> 00:03:23,269 Even though she lost her cool because she just can't take it anymore. 70 00:03:23,937 --> 00:03:26,940 In that case, the bully won. 71 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,811 So when we take things into our own hands, they're not correct way. 72 00:03:32,512 --> 00:03:36,482 It may make us feel good at that time, but it's not going to solve the issue. 73 00:03:36,783 --> 00:03:39,586 In fact, if I were to go slander another business, 74 00:03:39,586 --> 00:03:42,689 that business can come back after me and then I get in trouble. 75 00:03:43,156 --> 00:03:45,024 Well, yeah, and that's the thing about this. 76 00:03:45,024 --> 00:03:48,261 It's one thing to say, okay, I'm being bullied. 77 00:03:48,261 --> 00:03:53,600 It's another thing for you to go to a business and accused it of something. 78 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,436 And it's not slander if it's facts. 79 00:03:56,436 --> 00:03:59,439 That's true, but it's not slander. 80 00:03:59,606 --> 00:04:03,910 If you can prove the facts and that's the important distinction, 81 00:04:04,110 --> 00:04:09,582 you have to have evidence to present, not just they bully their people. 82 00:04:09,582 --> 00:04:11,217 You need to have more than that. 83 00:04:11,217 --> 00:04:16,122 If you open up a Facebook page, this is something that can be argued 84 00:04:16,122 --> 00:04:20,560 as slander, as damaging to the business and you would then be financially 85 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,863 and legally responsible for the damages to that business. 86 00:04:24,330 --> 00:04:26,266 Whether it's true or not. 87 00:04:26,266 --> 00:04:29,502 If you do not have rock solid proof to present. 88 00:04:30,169 --> 00:04:33,339 And not all video is proof of what's going on 89 00:04:33,873 --> 00:04:37,310 as well, Video can be taken as two different ways. 90 00:04:37,310 --> 00:04:40,313 However, that person interprets that video. 91 00:04:40,380 --> 00:04:42,048 Also, what happened before the video started? 92 00:04:42,048 --> 00:04:44,183 What happened after the video was cut? 93 00:04:44,183 --> 00:04:45,618 Exactly. Yeah. 94 00:04:45,618 --> 00:04:47,620 You know, I've worked in entertainment. 95 00:04:47,620 --> 00:04:50,623 We can reedit things to make anything look like anything. 96 00:04:50,890 --> 00:04:54,827 So you have to be careful in accusations. 97 00:04:55,261 --> 00:04:55,561 Yeah. 98 00:04:55,561 --> 00:04:59,666 And I understand at the time, because there were, you know, I've been bullied. 99 00:04:59,666 --> 00:05:01,200 We've all been bullied. I have. 100 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,571 I say we all, Bruce and I, when you get picked on, you do want. 101 00:05:05,638 --> 00:05:07,073 Listen, last week. 102 00:05:07,073 --> 00:05:08,041 You listened to last week, 103 00:05:08,041 --> 00:05:11,244 but you want to make that person, as my daughter calls it, humbled. 104 00:05:11,244 --> 00:05:15,782 You want to humble them and you know, it might make you feel good, 105 00:05:16,182 --> 00:05:19,252 but in the long run, going this route, 106 00:05:19,552 --> 00:05:22,855 it may make you feel good today or tomorrow. 107 00:05:22,989 --> 00:05:26,192 But next week, when you get a summons at your door, 108 00:05:26,292 --> 00:05:28,094 you're not going to be feeling so good because now 109 00:05:28,094 --> 00:05:30,663 you're going to be dealing with the law. 110 00:05:30,663 --> 00:05:33,366 And I suggest not to do that. 111 00:05:33,366 --> 00:05:36,436 One of my mentors gave me a good advice. 112 00:05:36,436 --> 00:05:38,671 When you're frustrated at somebody. 113 00:05:38,671 --> 00:05:40,807 Very simple advice. 114 00:05:40,807 --> 00:05:43,643 Type it up and delete it. 115 00:05:43,643 --> 00:05:45,278 I've done that so many times. 116 00:05:45,278 --> 00:05:47,080 It's simple and it does work. 117 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,249 You type it up in an email, get it all out, sit 118 00:05:50,249 --> 00:05:53,820 there, read it, think about it, and then delete it. 119 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:55,621 I've done that many times. 120 00:05:55,621 --> 00:05:57,924 I get frustrated at people and it works. 121 00:05:57,924 --> 00:05:58,958 It calms you down. 122 00:05:58,958 --> 00:06:01,127 It gets it all your system. 123 00:06:01,127 --> 00:06:02,128 I do this too. 124 00:06:02,128 --> 00:06:07,166 Whenever I get angry or irritated or see red in some kind of interaction. 125 00:06:07,734 --> 00:06:13,272 I will do a first pass of absolutely vomit out all of my anger 126 00:06:13,272 --> 00:06:17,944 and frustration at this person to an email that I then get rid of. 127 00:06:18,211 --> 00:06:21,481 And then I set forward my clear, concise, 128 00:06:21,781 --> 00:06:24,984 unemotional thoughts about the situation 129 00:06:25,551 --> 00:06:30,490 and then send that off so that they can't get into an argument with me. 130 00:06:30,490 --> 00:06:34,060 They can disagree with the points, they're not arguing with me. 131 00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:37,130 They can't disregard me for just screaming and yelling at them. 132 00:06:37,530 --> 00:06:40,900 And it does calm you down because you've gotten the poison out to some degree. 133 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:41,934 Correct? 134 00:06:41,934 --> 00:06:42,568 I get it. 135 00:06:42,568 --> 00:06:45,571 You see something or it happened to you. 136 00:06:45,571 --> 00:06:48,775 Let's go social media and let's just bash them. 137 00:06:49,142 --> 00:06:52,712 But is that making us any better than the person 138 00:06:53,012 --> 00:06:55,982 that is potentially trained, our staff bad? 139 00:06:55,982 --> 00:06:58,151 No, No, it's not. 140 00:06:58,151 --> 00:06:59,952 Why stoop down to their level? 141 00:06:59,952 --> 00:07:02,922 Why can't we just rise up and be better than them? 142 00:07:02,922 --> 00:07:06,793 There is no good outcome when people react 143 00:07:07,059 --> 00:07:11,631 violently or they go off on a rant on social media. 144 00:07:11,664 --> 00:07:13,232 Nothing good comes of it. 145 00:07:13,232 --> 00:07:16,702 I mean, just dragging any argument into social media doesn't help anything. 146 00:07:17,370 --> 00:07:20,940 Yeah, let it go if it's happening to you directly. 147 00:07:21,541 --> 00:07:22,809 That's why we have lawyers. 148 00:07:22,809 --> 00:07:25,445 Let's so deal with it. 149 00:07:25,445 --> 00:07:29,949 If you really want to get back at that business, putting their business 150 00:07:29,949 --> 00:07:34,987 name on a Facebook page about them and bashing them is not the way to do it. 151 00:07:34,987 --> 00:07:37,623 If you really wanted to do something that was real, 152 00:07:37,623 --> 00:07:41,394 you would gather this information and you'd submit it to some kind of labor 153 00:07:41,394 --> 00:07:42,962 board, correct? Yeah. 154 00:07:42,962 --> 00:07:46,699 That's the right way of handling that situation. 155 00:07:48,968 --> 00:07:51,437 Here's a problem of social media, which I hate, 156 00:07:51,437 --> 00:07:55,842 because when you write a post like this, you're all fired up, you're mad, 157 00:07:55,842 --> 00:07:57,677 and if you disagree with it, 158 00:07:57,677 --> 00:08:00,680 saying like myself, I said, be careful, slanders punishable. 159 00:08:01,147 --> 00:08:04,116 You get like two legs, but then you get someone responding. 160 00:08:04,116 --> 00:08:04,684 Do it. 161 00:08:04,684 --> 00:08:07,520 When good men do nothing, evil triumphs. 162 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,257 I'm like, Yeah, you say that because your butt's down the line. 163 00:08:11,891 --> 00:08:16,062 I mean, the reality is just getting involved in any kinds of arguments online. 164 00:08:16,395 --> 00:08:18,130 You're just feeding your own anger. 165 00:08:18,130 --> 00:08:20,800 It doesn't help you one, it doesn't resolve anything. 166 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,437 There's no none of the great debates are happening on a Facebook post. 167 00:08:24,637 --> 00:08:25,304 Correct. 168 00:08:25,304 --> 00:08:28,641 And no one's coming to any kind of mutual agreement. 169 00:08:28,641 --> 00:08:33,079 It's not an actual discussion, just people effectively pissing at each other. 170 00:08:33,379 --> 00:08:33,813 Yeah. 171 00:08:33,813 --> 00:08:38,818 And ultimately, what that means is if you engage in that, you're frustrated, 172 00:08:39,385 --> 00:08:42,088 maybe you're fed your anger, Maybe maybe you made yourself 173 00:08:42,088 --> 00:08:45,324 a little happy because you got in that like killer quip or whatnot. 174 00:08:45,825 --> 00:08:48,127 But in the end, you're just covered in piss. 175 00:08:48,127 --> 00:08:50,229 You are being a bully back. 176 00:08:50,229 --> 00:08:53,165 You're doing it on purpose, right? 177 00:08:53,165 --> 00:08:57,270 You're planning this out and you're trying to take power over that business. 178 00:08:57,603 --> 00:09:00,606 The three top things that you need for it to be considered bullying. 179 00:09:01,274 --> 00:09:05,912 Now you're in this anti-bullying group trying to be against bullying, but yet. 180 00:09:06,045 --> 00:09:07,880 Your tactics are bullying. 181 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,249 Yeah, that doesn't make any sense to me. 182 00:09:10,249 --> 00:09:14,153 Well, in fairness, people who have suffered through bullying 183 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,357 oftentimes didn't have any kind of recourse in their situation. 184 00:09:18,724 --> 00:09:21,594 So it can be very validating 185 00:09:21,594 --> 00:09:24,697 to see somebody getting some degree of justice, 186 00:09:25,231 --> 00:09:30,603 even when it's not real justice, and it can create a bit of a mob mentality. 187 00:09:30,970 --> 00:09:34,707 I could see that being one of the dynamics at play here. 188 00:09:36,208 --> 00:09:37,843 I get it 189 00:09:37,843 --> 00:09:41,814 and I get that when you're you're hurt, your feelings are hurt. 190 00:09:41,847 --> 00:09:44,850 You want to pay back right now. 191 00:09:45,451 --> 00:09:48,454 Why do you have to go on Facebook and ask permission? 192 00:09:48,621 --> 00:09:52,291 So I'm forgetting about this post and forgetting about this person. 193 00:09:52,491 --> 00:09:54,660 Let's take a moment in this business. 194 00:09:54,660 --> 00:09:57,630 Let's say somebody there is a business and somebody is getting bullied there. 195 00:09:58,798 --> 00:10:01,801 What would be your first piece of advice to this person to start 196 00:10:02,101 --> 00:10:04,804 dealing with this situation now? 197 00:10:04,804 --> 00:10:06,305 Is this person witnessing this. 198 00:10:06,305 --> 00:10:09,108 Management is treating this person like crap? 199 00:10:09,108 --> 00:10:10,710 And I witnessed that. Correct. 200 00:10:10,710 --> 00:10:13,179 You work at Widgets Inc. 201 00:10:13,179 --> 00:10:17,950 and they are doing everything to treat you like absolute crap. 202 00:10:18,851 --> 00:10:21,187 What are steps you can take? 203 00:10:21,187 --> 00:10:23,155 You're not the witness, you're the victim. 204 00:10:24,991 --> 00:10:25,424 I would 205 00:10:25,424 --> 00:10:30,630 definitely be Googling my labor laws or contacting my local workforce agency 206 00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:34,800 to see how I can report workplace abuse in. 207 00:10:34,934 --> 00:10:38,237 Another thing you should be doing is documenting everything. 208 00:10:38,638 --> 00:10:43,576 If you get emails that are implying things that feed into the bullying, 209 00:10:44,043 --> 00:10:47,046 you don't just leave them on the company server 210 00:10:47,413 --> 00:10:49,281 because they can wipe that at any time. 211 00:10:49,281 --> 00:10:52,852 You make sure you're forwarding all those correspondences to yourself. 212 00:10:53,119 --> 00:10:55,321 That's another thing you can do to protect yourself. 213 00:10:55,321 --> 00:10:58,658 Yes. Collect as much evidence you have as possible. 214 00:10:59,158 --> 00:11:02,595 If you if you witness an employer 215 00:11:02,595 --> 00:11:06,966 trading in employee bad, it also where hurt as an outsider. 216 00:11:07,466 --> 00:11:10,469 Send that employer a little letter 217 00:11:10,603 --> 00:11:13,606 and saying hey, I saw this such and such on this day. 218 00:11:13,606 --> 00:11:14,707 This was happening. 219 00:11:14,707 --> 00:11:17,343 I just thought I would bring it to your attention. 220 00:11:17,343 --> 00:11:21,380 The more that you can intercede on behalf of somebody who is being victimized, 221 00:11:21,981 --> 00:11:25,518 the less power the victimizer has over that person. 222 00:11:25,818 --> 00:11:28,020 You can make a difference. 223 00:11:28,020 --> 00:11:31,023 And staying on the topic of workplace bullying. 224 00:11:31,424 --> 00:11:35,594 Joining us now is personal fitness expert Sandy Griffin, 225 00:11:35,895 --> 00:11:40,032 who has her own experience with bullying in the workplace. 226 00:11:40,866 --> 00:11:43,235 Sandy, thank you for joining us. 227 00:11:43,235 --> 00:11:45,204 How are you doing today? 228 00:11:45,204 --> 00:11:47,540 I'm doing outstanding today. 229 00:11:47,540 --> 00:11:48,674 How are you doing? 230 00:11:48,674 --> 00:11:50,042 I'm doing awesome. 231 00:11:50,042 --> 00:11:53,179 And to start, tell us a little bit about yourself. 232 00:11:53,546 --> 00:11:56,048 What do you currently do? How did you get here? 233 00:11:56,048 --> 00:11:59,752 Well, I am a professional fitness coach, and my journey 234 00:11:59,752 --> 00:12:03,155 started way back when we moved to Germany in 2002. 235 00:12:03,556 --> 00:12:07,660 My husband is retired Air Force and the military relocated our family 236 00:12:07,660 --> 00:12:12,465 overseas in 2002, and I didn't know much about fitness at that time 237 00:12:12,465 --> 00:12:15,935 and let myself go to the point where I was afraid I was going to die. 238 00:12:16,435 --> 00:12:18,938 So decided to start on a health 239 00:12:18,938 --> 00:12:22,541 and wellness journey, which led me into lots of other things. 240 00:12:22,708 --> 00:12:25,044 But I am also a mother of three. 241 00:12:25,044 --> 00:12:26,612 I am recently a grandma. 242 00:12:26,612 --> 00:12:29,915 As of January, I have a four month old baby granddaughter. 243 00:12:29,949 --> 00:12:30,783 No, you're not. 244 00:12:30,783 --> 00:12:31,584 You are. Not. 245 00:12:31,584 --> 00:12:31,917 Yeah. 246 00:12:31,917 --> 00:12:34,520 There's no way you're way too young. I am 247 00:12:36,856 --> 00:12:38,324 now. She's absolutely beautiful. 248 00:12:38,324 --> 00:12:39,759 Her name is Mavis. She's. 249 00:12:39,759 --> 00:12:43,262 She's going to be super strong when she grows up, too, Just like her mama. 250 00:12:43,763 --> 00:12:46,766 But my, you know, my fitness journey kind of. 251 00:12:47,133 --> 00:12:50,035 Kind of sparked everything that I do now. 252 00:12:50,035 --> 00:12:53,172 How did you go from getting into fitness for myself to be like, 253 00:12:53,172 --> 00:12:55,441 Hey, I see a career path here? 254 00:12:55,441 --> 00:12:57,376 I tell her, But it happened by accident. 255 00:12:57,376 --> 00:13:01,347 So I gained a substantial amount of weight when we got there and to the point 256 00:13:01,347 --> 00:13:04,350 where I was afraid I was going to die of a heart attack or stroke. 257 00:13:04,617 --> 00:13:06,452 And I don't want to leave my kids without a mom. 258 00:13:06,452 --> 00:13:11,123 So I started this fitness journey, a skiing accident that actually helped me 259 00:13:11,123 --> 00:13:15,027 start that because I had a knee injury that required therapy in the gym. 260 00:13:15,394 --> 00:13:19,398 After a few months, I actually started liking being in the gym, 261 00:13:19,398 --> 00:13:23,536 which was weird, and discovered that I was getting really strong. 262 00:13:23,602 --> 00:13:27,039 I started losing weight as a result and then I had some folks started 263 00:13:27,373 --> 00:13:29,408 approaching me, Hey, can you help me too? 264 00:13:29,408 --> 00:13:31,410 And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. So let me 265 00:13:32,444 --> 00:13:32,745 take a 266 00:13:32,745 --> 00:13:35,848 certification courses to make sure I'm on the right track for myself. 267 00:13:36,415 --> 00:13:39,819 And I actually stayed on that for nearly a year. 268 00:13:39,819 --> 00:13:42,822 I never intended to do this as a career, 269 00:13:42,988 --> 00:13:46,692 and I was happy to be in a mom to my kids and doing some other things. 270 00:13:47,059 --> 00:13:52,064 Eventually decided to like, let me see if I can help change everyone else's life. 271 00:13:52,064 --> 00:13:53,732 Like fitness has changed mine. 272 00:13:53,732 --> 00:13:57,570 It saved my life and it taught me so much about confidence and everything else. 273 00:13:57,570 --> 00:14:00,673 I thought, if I can change someone else's life, I would love to do that. 274 00:14:01,006 --> 00:14:04,510 How long have you worked that as a trainer overseas? 275 00:14:04,777 --> 00:14:08,981 So my career as a trainer started in 2009 and I am still going strong. 276 00:14:09,348 --> 00:14:11,483 You started your fitness career in Germany. 277 00:14:11,483 --> 00:14:14,486 How long did it take to grow it and how big did you grow it there? 278 00:14:14,820 --> 00:14:18,591 So I started in 2009 and I was really intimidated. 279 00:14:18,591 --> 00:14:21,694 We were part of the military community near Ramstein 280 00:14:21,694 --> 00:14:25,364 in Landstuhl, Germany, and so I worked with a lot of medical professionals. 281 00:14:25,364 --> 00:14:29,468 In fact, one of my very first clients was a doctor, which totally freaked me out. 282 00:14:29,468 --> 00:14:32,137 I'm like, A doctor is coming to me for help. 283 00:14:32,137 --> 00:14:34,006 Like, what are you doing? 284 00:14:34,006 --> 00:14:38,310 And of course, she was near the age of 60, had a neck issue, 285 00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:42,214 had a shoulder issue, wanted to lose £20, had a lot of chronic pain. 286 00:14:42,214 --> 00:14:44,783 And she's like, Can you help me? And I'm like, Oh, 287 00:14:46,185 --> 00:14:47,219 I think so. 288 00:14:47,219 --> 00:14:48,420 If you'll be patient with me. 289 00:14:48,420 --> 00:14:50,890 I knew I was very honest and very transparent. 290 00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:53,893 So I soon discovered I knew more than I thought I did. 291 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:59,965 So I began working with our active duty military community, our spouses 292 00:14:59,965 --> 00:15:03,235 and civilians that work overseas in the military community. 293 00:15:03,569 --> 00:15:06,939 We worked with people that were had failures and and things. 294 00:15:06,939 --> 00:15:11,844 And not only was I very strong for a female, so I was able to demonstrate 295 00:15:11,844 --> 00:15:15,281 and be an example of the you can do this. 296 00:15:15,281 --> 00:15:17,182 If I can do this, anybody can do this. 297 00:15:17,182 --> 00:15:18,918 And it soon grew. 298 00:15:18,918 --> 00:15:23,555 Within a few years I started because of my clients being medical professionals. 299 00:15:23,822 --> 00:15:27,693 My reputation started to grow and I was actually part 300 00:15:27,693 --> 00:15:31,463 of a medical professional team that worked with our Special Forces members 301 00:15:31,530 --> 00:15:34,600 and our active duty military that were coming in from downrange injured. 302 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,304 They put together a comprehensive wellness program for them 303 00:15:38,304 --> 00:15:41,340 because they realized it was more than just healing 304 00:15:41,340 --> 00:15:43,342 a broken bone, taking out stitches, whatever. 305 00:15:43,342 --> 00:15:46,345 There was a lot more to getting somebody whole 306 00:15:46,512 --> 00:15:50,015 and strong and well to be able to return to duty. 307 00:15:50,015 --> 00:15:52,384 And I was kind of at the tail end of that program. 308 00:15:52,384 --> 00:15:53,619 In the midst of all of that, I 309 00:15:53,619 --> 00:15:57,423 also discovered the sport of bodybuilding through my fitness journey. 310 00:15:57,423 --> 00:16:00,526 So I was the American liaison for APB International 311 00:16:00,893 --> 00:16:05,597 and worked with our military community overseas to be able to compete 312 00:16:05,597 --> 00:16:09,601 as international athletes with HPV, which is really awesome. 313 00:16:10,169 --> 00:16:14,373 I think in 2013, one of the Fort 314 00:16:14,373 --> 00:16:17,943 Carson, where I met in Colorado Springs, one of the Fort Carson 315 00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:21,347 Club athletes, which stands for World Class Athlete Program, 316 00:16:21,780 --> 00:16:26,452 which basically they're Olympic athletes in training and just part of 317 00:16:26,452 --> 00:16:31,457 that Army program that facilitates that was escorting a patient to Landstuhl. 318 00:16:31,457 --> 00:16:35,694 And we met and she was just flabbergasted that somebody could be that strong, 319 00:16:35,694 --> 00:16:37,563 that lean and not be starving themselves. 320 00:16:37,563 --> 00:16:41,367 So I became a consultant at that point for the National 321 00:16:41,367 --> 00:16:44,737 wrestling team, USA wrestling team, the women's freestyle team. 322 00:16:45,104 --> 00:16:48,841 And that's what kind of connected me to Colorado Springs where I am currently. 323 00:16:49,141 --> 00:16:53,278 So I have had just a ton of amazing things happen 324 00:16:53,278 --> 00:16:56,348 kind of by accident, but just really awesome things. 325 00:16:56,382 --> 00:16:57,983 Met some great people. 326 00:16:57,983 --> 00:17:00,986 And yet as big and as powerful as you were, 327 00:17:01,253 --> 00:17:04,690 you still ended up in a situation where you were effectively bullied. 328 00:17:05,190 --> 00:17:07,793 Mm hmm. How did that come about? 329 00:17:07,793 --> 00:17:12,431 It was it totally came out of nowhere and completely caught me off guard 330 00:17:13,899 --> 00:17:15,234 with my bodybuilding 331 00:17:15,234 --> 00:17:18,504 background and all the community that I was plugged into. 332 00:17:18,704 --> 00:17:22,608 I helped the entity that I worked for do lots of events, 333 00:17:22,674 --> 00:17:26,512 especially bodybuilding events, and had a great relationship with them. 334 00:17:26,512 --> 00:17:28,113 Actually, we were great friends. 335 00:17:28,113 --> 00:17:31,583 We had a great relationship, did a lot of great things for the community. 336 00:17:32,051 --> 00:17:35,621 And in 2013 the government did not pass the budget 337 00:17:35,621 --> 00:17:38,190 and there was a period of government shutdown for a few days 338 00:17:38,190 --> 00:17:41,193 and there was fear about budget not being passed and everything. 339 00:17:41,193 --> 00:17:44,363 And so they canceled this bodybuilding show that we were planning. 340 00:17:44,463 --> 00:17:45,898 And I was in the midst of training. 341 00:17:45,898 --> 00:17:50,102 41 athletes were in all of our military communities in the area. 342 00:17:50,102 --> 00:17:53,105 So there is lots of different bases within Germany. 343 00:17:53,372 --> 00:17:55,874 And I was traveling to all these bases doing workshops 344 00:17:55,874 --> 00:17:57,342 and training these athletes. 345 00:17:57,342 --> 00:17:59,511 Some of these people, we were halfway to the goal, 346 00:17:59,511 --> 00:18:03,015 which was a bodybuilding show, and they canceled it. 347 00:18:03,315 --> 00:18:06,185 And I thought, Well, let's do it anyway. 348 00:18:06,185 --> 00:18:07,619 You know, I'll find a way. 349 00:18:07,619 --> 00:18:10,989 And I had some organizations that donated funds for us to be able 350 00:18:10,989 --> 00:18:14,593 to buy trophies and buy the little things that we needed to put on the show. 351 00:18:14,927 --> 00:18:19,164 We had an amazing event, but just a few months prior 352 00:18:19,164 --> 00:18:19,631 to the event 353 00:18:19,631 --> 00:18:23,836 happening, word had gotten out that this was going to be a huge community event. 354 00:18:23,836 --> 00:18:27,739 It was the biggest bodybuilding show the community had ever seen, ever. 355 00:18:28,574 --> 00:18:29,842 And have that independently. 356 00:18:29,842 --> 00:18:34,279 Can you write to the entity that canceled the show, approached me 357 00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:37,783 and said, Hey, we'd love to help you out, but we just need to charge admission 358 00:18:38,083 --> 00:18:39,118 at the door. 359 00:18:39,118 --> 00:18:43,622 Well, because I had been donated funds, it was billed as a nonprofit event 360 00:18:43,622 --> 00:18:44,756 and I am. 361 00:18:44,756 --> 00:18:47,059 My integrity rises above everything. 362 00:18:47,059 --> 00:18:50,662 And I had to say, I'm sorry, but no, I had to politely decline. 363 00:18:50,929 --> 00:18:52,030 This is a nonprofit event. 364 00:18:52,030 --> 00:18:54,199 We can't charge anybody. 365 00:18:54,199 --> 00:18:56,268 And that did not sit well with that entity. 366 00:18:56,268 --> 00:18:59,505 When you found word that the event might be canceled, 367 00:18:59,638 --> 00:19:02,641 how close to the event date was that? 368 00:19:02,641 --> 00:19:04,743 It was about two months out. 369 00:19:04,743 --> 00:19:06,211 So I have friends who do bodybuilding. 370 00:19:06,211 --> 00:19:07,246 That's one thing. 371 00:19:07,246 --> 00:19:08,514 All that training and prep, 372 00:19:08,514 --> 00:19:12,117 because I believe you guys are about a month away from a water cutting phase. 373 00:19:12,151 --> 00:19:13,452 Yeah, Yeah. 374 00:19:13,452 --> 00:19:15,687 You can't just stop, right? 375 00:19:15,687 --> 00:19:16,922 No, you're absolutely correct. 376 00:19:16,922 --> 00:19:20,792 And a lot of these men and women and this was more of a transformation 377 00:19:20,792 --> 00:19:23,795 show than it was a bodybuilding show, these were all first time athletes. 378 00:19:23,862 --> 00:19:26,431 Some of these athletes had come out of diabetes medication. 379 00:19:26,431 --> 00:19:28,901 Some of them had lost 50 plus pounds. 380 00:19:28,901 --> 00:19:32,604 Some of them had been told they could never do a certain activity again 381 00:19:32,604 --> 00:19:35,240 because of an injury, and they overcame that and beyond. 382 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:40,312 So not only was this a lot of intense work, but it was demoralizing 383 00:19:40,312 --> 00:19:43,615 to think that they had worked so hard and then they would have to just quit. 384 00:19:43,615 --> 00:19:45,984 And so I'm like, No, we can't do this. We have to keep going. 385 00:19:47,252 --> 00:19:49,121 Good job on your part for sticking up for. 386 00:19:49,121 --> 00:19:53,025 Yeah, because I think that's that's not fair, especially with all the training 387 00:19:53,025 --> 00:19:56,028 and the mental training that goes behind behind bodybuilding. 388 00:19:56,128 --> 00:19:57,930 Those carrying out the rough nights. 389 00:19:57,930 --> 00:19:59,164 No way. Right. 390 00:19:59,164 --> 00:20:01,066 Very happy for you. Stuck up for these people. 391 00:20:01,066 --> 00:20:03,168 And the community just needed a morale boost 392 00:20:03,168 --> 00:20:05,103 or they just needed something positive in their lives. 393 00:20:05,103 --> 00:20:08,006 At that point, there were a lot of people that were worried about their jobs 394 00:20:08,006 --> 00:20:11,009 getting laid off as government employees and everything. 395 00:20:11,043 --> 00:20:14,780 It was a substantial event I felt just had to take place. 396 00:20:14,913 --> 00:20:16,815 And was a roaring success. 397 00:20:16,815 --> 00:20:17,549 It was. 398 00:20:17,549 --> 00:20:22,287 How did you first become aware of this backlash against you? 399 00:20:22,421 --> 00:20:25,357 How did this begin? 400 00:20:25,357 --> 00:20:28,360 I don't necessarily remember. 401 00:20:28,493 --> 00:20:32,364 I think the first instance was they had 402 00:20:32,598 --> 00:20:37,102 I became a sponsored athlete with bodybuilding through a company in Germany, 403 00:20:37,703 --> 00:20:40,138 just in the way of they provided me free 404 00:20:40,138 --> 00:20:44,409 protein powders or whatever just to basically promote their products. 405 00:20:44,409 --> 00:20:47,579 And so I brought the products in and just took pictures with them. 406 00:20:48,013 --> 00:20:50,916 And I remember being called into a meeting accusing me 407 00:20:50,916 --> 00:20:54,920 of selling the products inside the gym, which was not allowed. 408 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,291 And again, integrity, that was something I would never do. 409 00:20:59,291 --> 00:21:01,293 I would never put my job at risk. 410 00:21:01,293 --> 00:21:05,063 At the time, I didn't know that the gym became my bully. 411 00:21:05,364 --> 00:21:07,499 The employees at the gym would become a bully. 412 00:21:07,499 --> 00:21:09,134 I would never put them at risk either. 413 00:21:09,134 --> 00:21:10,435 I would never do anything 414 00:21:10,435 --> 00:21:13,939 that questioned my integrity or my practices as a business owner. 415 00:21:14,172 --> 00:21:16,642 And I was kind of shocked. I'm like, What proof do you have? 416 00:21:16,642 --> 00:21:18,343 Did somebody see me do something? 417 00:21:18,343 --> 00:21:21,346 Because I had never done anything and it was the pictures. 418 00:21:21,513 --> 00:21:25,050 That's when the bullying really, really kind of escalated from there. 419 00:21:25,684 --> 00:21:28,453 What form did the bullying take there? 420 00:21:28,453 --> 00:21:29,321 Yeah, there were a lot. 421 00:21:30,555 --> 00:21:31,290 I was 422 00:21:31,290 --> 00:21:35,294 accused multiple times of unethical business practices, 423 00:21:35,294 --> 00:21:38,330 taking money for payment for personal training 424 00:21:38,330 --> 00:21:41,400 without my clients going through and purchasing their sessions, 425 00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:44,670 even though I had receipts and my calendar 426 00:21:44,670 --> 00:21:47,673 to align every person that I saw, 427 00:21:47,973 --> 00:21:51,310 I was repeatedly accused of taking money under the table. 428 00:21:51,810 --> 00:21:55,514 They hired other contractors, other trainers to come in 429 00:21:55,514 --> 00:21:56,848 and I was harassed by them. 430 00:21:56,848 --> 00:21:59,851 I was accused of 431 00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:03,388 what's the word, slandering other trainers. 432 00:22:03,388 --> 00:22:05,724 Like I was telling everybody that they were worthless. 433 00:22:05,724 --> 00:22:06,558 They were no good. 434 00:22:06,558 --> 00:22:08,894 They were they didn't know what they were doing. 435 00:22:08,894 --> 00:22:13,765 And again, all of this was so dented, like they didn't have a person 436 00:22:14,099 --> 00:22:17,102 that they could say that, you know, brought this to their attention. 437 00:22:17,369 --> 00:22:21,006 There was no written or any other type of proof. 438 00:22:21,006 --> 00:22:23,008 It was all hearsay. 439 00:22:23,008 --> 00:22:24,042 And I'm like, 440 00:22:24,042 --> 00:22:27,045 if you're going to accuse me, then the person making these claims 441 00:22:27,045 --> 00:22:30,515 needs to have them proof know I'm innocent until proven guilty. 442 00:22:30,515 --> 00:22:31,350 Right? 443 00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:35,654 And it was always I could be accused with no foundation. 444 00:22:35,654 --> 00:22:39,858 But even with all the proof I had, that was completely ignored, 445 00:22:40,826 --> 00:22:41,693 I watched 446 00:22:41,693 --> 00:22:44,696 as other trainers were given perks and special treatment. 447 00:22:44,830 --> 00:22:46,531 Previously, all of us had been allowed 448 00:22:46,531 --> 00:22:49,501 to stand behind the counter and go upstairs and use the break room. 449 00:22:49,601 --> 00:22:53,338 After that started, I was banished to the bathroom. 450 00:22:53,405 --> 00:22:57,175 Actually, they made me keep my items and all my 451 00:22:57,309 --> 00:23:01,146 my business materials in a locker in the women's bathroom. 452 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,415 So I and I had male clients. 453 00:23:03,415 --> 00:23:04,549 That was the issue. 454 00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:07,152 I didn't just females I train males to. 455 00:23:07,152 --> 00:23:09,187 It was almost humiliating. 456 00:23:09,187 --> 00:23:11,089 I was banished to the bathroom. 457 00:23:11,089 --> 00:23:15,927 I couldn't even have a drawer or a cabinet or anything to keep my belongings, my, 458 00:23:15,927 --> 00:23:17,929 my professional things in a place 459 00:23:17,929 --> 00:23:20,532 I could greet my clients when they came through the door. 460 00:23:20,532 --> 00:23:22,401 I had to go, Excuse me, I have to go to the bathroom. 461 00:23:22,401 --> 00:23:26,438 They got my book and so I watched as every other trainer 462 00:23:26,438 --> 00:23:28,774 except myself was allowed these privileges. 463 00:23:28,774 --> 00:23:31,977 And when I brought it to contracting attention, 464 00:23:32,244 --> 00:23:34,279 it was kind of just disregarded. 465 00:23:34,279 --> 00:23:38,550 And after a certain point, they kind of made everybody do that, but not really. 466 00:23:39,050 --> 00:23:41,286 So it was is disheartening. 467 00:23:41,286 --> 00:23:45,090 The other trainers that saw this, did any of them stick up for you? 468 00:23:45,190 --> 00:23:47,959 No, no, no. 469 00:23:47,959 --> 00:23:51,997 And I it it's not a male female thing, but it just so happened 470 00:23:51,997 --> 00:23:55,066 that all of the bullies were male 471 00:23:55,066 --> 00:23:58,069 and they had all been friends for over several decades. 472 00:23:58,403 --> 00:24:01,173 And then all the trainers that were coming in were also male. 473 00:24:01,173 --> 00:24:04,476 So I was a female in a very male dominated space. 474 00:24:04,943 --> 00:24:07,312 And of course, I'm I'm only five foot three, 475 00:24:07,312 --> 00:24:09,815 so that was another thing, you know, like 476 00:24:09,815 --> 00:24:13,185 little tiny me, you know, that was another it was. 477 00:24:13,885 --> 00:24:16,755 What right do you have to be in this male dominated place? 478 00:24:16,755 --> 00:24:17,589 Exactly. 479 00:24:17,589 --> 00:24:20,158 They made it very aware that I did not belong. 480 00:24:20,158 --> 00:24:20,959 There. 481 00:24:20,959 --> 00:24:25,497 Was the sexism present prior to the event? No, 482 00:24:26,731 --> 00:24:28,333 no. Like I said, we all got along great. 483 00:24:28,333 --> 00:24:29,768 We're all cutting up together. 484 00:24:29,768 --> 00:24:33,672 We would all have our lunches upstairs in the break room together and 485 00:24:33,939 --> 00:24:35,607 everybody had a great relationship. 486 00:24:35,607 --> 00:24:38,643 I never saw any of those bullying traits 487 00:24:38,743 --> 00:24:42,247 until this event took place, and it was because I told them no. 488 00:24:42,614 --> 00:24:45,884 And I didn't I didn't understand that it's not okay 489 00:24:45,884 --> 00:24:48,887 to tell these people no. 490 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:51,256 So I stood up for myself. 491 00:24:51,256 --> 00:24:55,627 So the gym itself, was it connected to the organization that had pulled budget? 492 00:24:55,994 --> 00:24:58,630 Yes. This is all a military entity. 493 00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:59,231 Okay. 494 00:24:59,231 --> 00:25:02,133 And the tricky piece about that was in Germany, 495 00:25:02,133 --> 00:25:06,137 there's a thing called the SOFA Regulation Status of Forces Agreements. 496 00:25:06,137 --> 00:25:07,205 Regulation. 497 00:25:07,205 --> 00:25:11,076 And because I was an American working in an American gym, 498 00:25:11,076 --> 00:25:14,412 training American clients, taking only dollar for payment, 499 00:25:14,913 --> 00:25:17,482 I still had to register as a German business 500 00:25:17,482 --> 00:25:20,952 because they did allow German nationals 501 00:25:20,952 --> 00:25:24,523 to be employed in the same manner that I was as a contractor. 502 00:25:24,890 --> 00:25:27,993 So I fell under the rules of a German business. 503 00:25:28,493 --> 00:25:31,763 However, I was viewed as an American entity, 504 00:25:32,030 --> 00:25:34,232 so I had no legal recourse. 505 00:25:34,232 --> 00:25:37,936 And I learned this as this bullying continued and I thought legal help, 506 00:25:38,370 --> 00:25:42,173 the base would not help me either Air Force or Army side. 507 00:25:42,173 --> 00:25:44,342 And I hired a German attorney. 508 00:25:44,342 --> 00:25:46,378 It was just a terrible situation. 509 00:25:46,378 --> 00:25:49,814 I had no legal recourse then nobody would help me. 510 00:25:50,282 --> 00:25:52,584 Sounded like it got really nasty. 511 00:25:52,584 --> 00:25:57,689 But yeah, as you were going through the bullying at the time it was happening, 512 00:25:57,956 --> 00:26:00,959 what kind of emotional toll did it take on you? 513 00:26:01,059 --> 00:26:02,928 It was it was devastating. 514 00:26:02,928 --> 00:26:07,399 2013 as an entire year was devastating for our family. 515 00:26:08,033 --> 00:26:12,571 My husband was basically forced to retire from the military because of budget cuts. 516 00:26:13,405 --> 00:26:16,207 We had a significant death in the family. 517 00:26:16,207 --> 00:26:20,045 We had one of our children going through severe depression and hospitalization 518 00:26:20,045 --> 00:26:23,181 at the time, and then I am about to lose my job. 519 00:26:23,882 --> 00:26:26,551 So I thought and it didn't happen for a few years 520 00:26:26,551 --> 00:26:29,554 past that, but I seriously thought I was going to lose my job. 521 00:26:29,721 --> 00:26:34,593 And it took everything we had as a family to hold it together that year. 522 00:26:35,260 --> 00:26:36,761 Devastating is not even 523 00:26:36,761 --> 00:26:39,764 it doesn't even come close to the emotions that we were feeling at the time. 524 00:26:40,532 --> 00:26:43,034 But you had your husband, you had your family, though, 525 00:26:43,034 --> 00:26:44,736 to support you and back you up. 526 00:26:44,736 --> 00:26:46,671 And we're we're super strong unit. 527 00:26:46,671 --> 00:26:49,674 So we got through it. We got through it. 528 00:26:49,674 --> 00:26:52,177 How did this bullying affect your business? 529 00:26:52,177 --> 00:26:53,912 Did you lose any clients? 530 00:26:53,912 --> 00:26:56,147 Did your clients stick up for you? 531 00:26:56,147 --> 00:27:00,251 So I had there were a few people and some of my clients, 532 00:27:00,251 --> 00:27:04,556 like I pride myself on really connecting with my clients to learn their stories, 533 00:27:04,556 --> 00:27:05,490 to really connect with them. 534 00:27:05,490 --> 00:27:08,193 Otherwise I can't truly help them be healthy. 535 00:27:08,193 --> 00:27:12,530 So those clients absolutely 100% were behind me every step of the way. 536 00:27:12,530 --> 00:27:17,102 There were a few people who diplomatically remained neutral. 537 00:27:17,369 --> 00:27:21,506 They didn't not believe me, but they weren't going to join the fight 538 00:27:21,506 --> 00:27:23,041 and help me. 539 00:27:23,041 --> 00:27:26,811 But most of my clients were really, really tried to help me fight 540 00:27:26,811 --> 00:27:28,113 the abuse that was happening. 541 00:27:29,047 --> 00:27:31,616 Did the gym you were working at or the other trainers there 542 00:27:31,616 --> 00:27:35,820 try to insert themselves in between your relationship with your clients? 543 00:27:36,388 --> 00:27:37,622 Fortunately, no. 544 00:27:37,622 --> 00:27:40,592 And I think because I had such a deep relationship 545 00:27:40,592 --> 00:27:44,062 with the clients that I trained, they knew that that was a futile effort. 546 00:27:44,963 --> 00:27:48,466 What was your mindset every day going into this gym, 547 00:27:48,466 --> 00:27:51,469 knowing that you're just going to be crapped on? 548 00:27:51,569 --> 00:27:54,673 It was it was hard not going to lie. 549 00:27:54,673 --> 00:27:56,141 There were a lot of days 550 00:27:56,141 --> 00:27:59,244 where I wanted to punch something, and I've never hit anything in my life. 551 00:27:59,244 --> 00:28:01,179 Never that not a person, not a walnut, anything. 552 00:28:01,179 --> 00:28:04,182 And there were many days where I contemplated that 553 00:28:04,182 --> 00:28:07,552 and there were lots of days where I just I would wake up in the morning, 554 00:28:07,552 --> 00:28:10,622 realize that I have to go back there again. 555 00:28:10,989 --> 00:28:13,792 And I have to say, this wasn't where I knew that they were going to. 556 00:28:13,792 --> 00:28:16,895 They had a meeting scheduled that I had to attend to hear 557 00:28:16,895 --> 00:28:20,665 about whatever, and I would just wake up in the morning, 558 00:28:20,699 --> 00:28:25,603 realize where I was, who I was, what I had to do, and my stomach just sank. 559 00:28:25,770 --> 00:28:26,971 It just almost made me 560 00:28:26,971 --> 00:28:30,709 nauseous, physically nauseous to think about having to go back in there. 561 00:28:32,377 --> 00:28:36,614 But quitting did cross my mind. 562 00:28:36,614 --> 00:28:40,652 But I'm really stubborn, so I just I wasn't going to let it happen. 563 00:28:42,087 --> 00:28:44,556 So how long did it go on for? 564 00:28:44,556 --> 00:28:46,357 So it started in 2013. 565 00:28:46,357 --> 00:28:51,062 It worsened and it kind of kind of hit its peak at 2016. 566 00:28:51,863 --> 00:28:56,367 They forced me to I had 22 active clients at the time. 567 00:28:56,768 --> 00:28:59,170 They forced me with a two week notice 568 00:28:59,170 --> 00:29:02,707 to relocate to a different gym, which was 30 minutes away. 569 00:29:02,941 --> 00:29:05,276 So they knew none of my clients could follow me. 570 00:29:05,276 --> 00:29:08,313 A lot of my clients worked at the location at the hospital 571 00:29:08,313 --> 00:29:10,915 that was attached to the gym that I worked at. 572 00:29:10,915 --> 00:29:12,150 They knew that my clients 573 00:29:12,150 --> 00:29:15,720 could not follow me, so they knew I would lose my entire client list. 574 00:29:16,020 --> 00:29:21,459 And the reason for that was their offices were at that gym and so they wanted me 575 00:29:21,459 --> 00:29:25,230 to work directly at that gym where their offices were located. 576 00:29:25,697 --> 00:29:29,634 It was twice as far from my home, so the commute was greater. 577 00:29:29,634 --> 00:29:33,271 I had no clientele and because of that, they set me up for failure. 578 00:29:33,805 --> 00:29:37,509 It was basically a plan to set me up to ensure I would fail to allow them to 579 00:29:38,109 --> 00:29:39,644 cancel my contract. 580 00:29:39,644 --> 00:29:44,716 So because I would not work there, because I had a commitment to my clients 581 00:29:44,716 --> 00:29:50,255 at that gym, I did not go to the other one and they said, You are not performing 582 00:29:50,255 --> 00:29:54,292 your duties as specified by your contract and they canceled it. 583 00:29:54,993 --> 00:29:58,997 Were you able to take your clients with you and train outside of that gym? 584 00:29:59,564 --> 00:30:00,465 I was too. 585 00:30:00,465 --> 00:30:03,768 Luckily, because of my reputation and because of the medical professionals 586 00:30:03,768 --> 00:30:07,338 I worked for, there was a physical therapy clinic that was off 587 00:30:07,338 --> 00:30:10,341 base in the German community that was part of a gym. 588 00:30:10,408 --> 00:30:12,010 And I went over there and spoke with them. 589 00:30:12,010 --> 00:30:13,878 They were super excited to have me. 590 00:30:13,878 --> 00:30:16,447 It was it was so much better, so much better. 591 00:30:16,447 --> 00:30:19,117 It was like a whole new world opened up for me. 592 00:30:19,117 --> 00:30:22,921 And I would say 85% of my clients followed me 593 00:30:23,621 --> 00:30:26,624 and my business flourished after that, actually. 594 00:30:27,125 --> 00:30:29,894 Were there any further echoes of the bullying 595 00:30:29,894 --> 00:30:33,932 once you had your contract canceled and left the gym or when that happened, 596 00:30:33,932 --> 00:30:35,300 that put an end to it. 597 00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:37,068 That pretty much put an end to it. 598 00:30:37,068 --> 00:30:39,904 I'm sure they continued to drag my name through the mud, 599 00:30:39,904 --> 00:30:42,407 but at that point I didn't really care. 600 00:30:42,407 --> 00:30:45,610 Did you become less active in base activities 601 00:30:45,610 --> 00:30:48,613 after this negative experience began? 602 00:30:48,746 --> 00:30:50,348 I did not. 603 00:30:50,348 --> 00:30:54,385 In the community, but with that particular entity's activities. 604 00:30:54,385 --> 00:30:55,086 Absolutely. 605 00:30:55,086 --> 00:30:57,956 I had never and never set foot in any of those again. 606 00:30:57,956 --> 00:31:01,860 That's when I really started becoming just prior to that, actually 607 00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:05,463 becoming the liaison for the bodybuilding community in the German community. 608 00:31:05,730 --> 00:31:09,601 And so I really started introducing our American community to that 609 00:31:09,868 --> 00:31:13,004 and really started embracing more of the German community, 610 00:31:13,004 --> 00:31:16,007 which was wonderful culturally for me as well. 611 00:31:16,708 --> 00:31:19,711 What advice would you give to somebody experiencing this right now? 612 00:31:19,911 --> 00:31:23,381 I would say and I didn't I didn't start practicing these things 613 00:31:23,381 --> 00:31:26,684 until a quite a quite a ways into the beginning 614 00:31:26,684 --> 00:31:28,786 because I didn't quite understand what was happening. 615 00:31:28,786 --> 00:31:31,356 I had never been bullied before until I was an adult. 616 00:31:31,356 --> 00:31:33,391 I'm the person that always has the glass half full. 617 00:31:33,391 --> 00:31:35,627 I obviously the good in people until you prove me wrong 618 00:31:35,627 --> 00:31:36,895 and it takes a lot to prove me wrong. 619 00:31:36,895 --> 00:31:40,164 I'll still second guess myself sometimes and think that really they didn't mean it 620 00:31:40,164 --> 00:31:41,032 that way, you know? 621 00:31:41,032 --> 00:31:45,236 So it took me a little bit to realize, Oh, this is for real, this is serious. 622 00:31:45,503 --> 00:31:47,105 So practical advice. 623 00:31:47,105 --> 00:31:51,843 I would say one of the most important things I did for my legal defense 624 00:31:51,843 --> 00:31:56,281 and for my protection as a business, I recorded all my conversations 625 00:31:56,281 --> 00:32:00,318 so that I never had to say that it was my word against theirs. 626 00:32:00,318 --> 00:32:05,056 I could say, Here's our conversation and somebody can share it for what it was. 627 00:32:05,423 --> 00:32:07,325 I made sure that I was never alone. 628 00:32:07,325 --> 00:32:09,594 There were lots of times where I was cornered. 629 00:32:09,594 --> 00:32:14,365 I had three people in the room and I was the only person in the room on my behalf. 630 00:32:14,532 --> 00:32:17,235 So I had three people's word against mine. 631 00:32:17,235 --> 00:32:19,237 So I made sure that I always had an advocate, 632 00:32:19,237 --> 00:32:23,574 whether that was the media or my husband or one of my clients or a friend 633 00:32:23,574 --> 00:32:27,245 or somebody that was a neutral party that could be in the room with me. 634 00:32:27,512 --> 00:32:30,515 And we recorded a conversation and I would not have a conversation 635 00:32:30,515 --> 00:32:32,450 unless it was allowed to be recorded. 636 00:32:32,450 --> 00:32:36,287 And in addition to all of that, I kept a journal of every email, every event, 637 00:32:36,287 --> 00:32:39,590 every thing that happened to me, every comment that was made towards me 638 00:32:39,924 --> 00:32:43,795 so that I was able to present all of this to my attorney eventually. 639 00:32:44,228 --> 00:32:48,333 And unfortunately, again, because of the complications with being an American 640 00:32:48,333 --> 00:32:53,071 running a business in Germany, I just really had no legal protection. 641 00:32:53,304 --> 00:32:56,641 However, I think most people in this situation 642 00:32:56,641 --> 00:32:59,911 would have those legal parameters to protect them, 643 00:33:00,211 --> 00:33:04,215 and this could be very significant in their defense, you know, in their case. 644 00:33:04,415 --> 00:33:08,720 And then beyond that advice going through this mentally, 645 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,523 physically, everything else, I don't believe things happen for a reason. 646 00:33:12,523 --> 00:33:16,027 I don't believe that people should ever be abused. 647 00:33:16,027 --> 00:33:18,496 I don't believe I was supposed to be abused. 648 00:33:18,496 --> 00:33:21,499 However, I do believe that I have choices 649 00:33:21,666 --> 00:33:26,304 and I had a choice in that situation to rise above my circumstances 650 00:33:26,304 --> 00:33:30,775 and explore the offer Other opportunities that eventually would present themselves, 651 00:33:31,042 --> 00:33:34,912 which I have already mentioned, turned out to be hugely successful. 652 00:33:35,213 --> 00:33:38,816 And looking back as horrible and as defeated as I felt during that 653 00:33:38,816 --> 00:33:42,420 time, I chose to learn and grow from the experience. 654 00:33:42,887 --> 00:33:46,224 We can fall victim or we can rise 655 00:33:46,224 --> 00:33:49,227 above the ashes and really grow from that. 656 00:33:49,594 --> 00:33:53,598 I discovered mental strength and confidence that I didn't know I had. 657 00:33:53,931 --> 00:33:57,068 I'm stubborn, but it didn't know that I had the ability 658 00:33:57,068 --> 00:34:02,640 to stand up to a huge entity and horrible people. 659 00:34:03,241 --> 00:34:04,442 Horrible people. 660 00:34:04,442 --> 00:34:06,277 And I didn't realize I had that in me. 661 00:34:06,277 --> 00:34:09,280 I am considered myself kind of an introvert. 662 00:34:09,313 --> 00:34:11,416 Previous told this experience. 663 00:34:11,416 --> 00:34:14,952 I grew up and as a child as a doormat, which is amazing that 664 00:34:14,952 --> 00:34:18,423 I wasn't bullied as a child but made sense that I was. 665 00:34:18,423 --> 00:34:21,059 I kind of got bullied as an adult, I guess. 666 00:34:21,059 --> 00:34:24,295 But I learned a lot about myself and those traits, 667 00:34:24,495 --> 00:34:26,431 you know, the confidence and the strength that I learned. 668 00:34:26,431 --> 00:34:28,433 Those traits in turn, would help me 669 00:34:28,433 --> 00:34:32,103 grow my brand and my business beyond anything I could have ever imagined. 670 00:34:32,403 --> 00:34:35,706 So in short, if someone you know in their adult 671 00:34:35,706 --> 00:34:38,709 life is being bullied, stay strong, don't lose heart, 672 00:34:38,776 --> 00:34:42,213 and look forward to the amazing things that are going to come your way. 673 00:34:42,213 --> 00:34:44,148 It sucks to go through this. 674 00:34:44,148 --> 00:34:46,150 It totally sucks. 675 00:34:46,150 --> 00:34:51,722 But there is usually something at the end of this that you'll learn 676 00:34:51,722 --> 00:34:55,359 and you will just flourish from it and be able to pay it forward 677 00:34:55,359 --> 00:34:57,662 to someone else to be able to mentor somebody else. 678 00:34:57,662 --> 00:35:02,900 Going through this process, I often refer to my story with this as, 679 00:35:03,234 --> 00:35:05,503 you know, I have never gone through a miscarriage, 680 00:35:05,503 --> 00:35:08,873 but I appreciate the women and have that shared their stories 681 00:35:08,873 --> 00:35:12,910 and tried to encourage other women going through the same process. 682 00:35:13,044 --> 00:35:14,112 Same thing with bullying. 683 00:35:14,112 --> 00:35:17,014 I hope nobody ever get bullied, you know, 684 00:35:17,014 --> 00:35:21,752 I hope nobody ever has to experience this, but I'm glad that I went through it 685 00:35:21,752 --> 00:35:26,124 in that aspect so that I can be a resource and a person that understands 686 00:35:26,124 --> 00:35:29,127 what they're going through and can help them navigate those steps. 687 00:35:29,694 --> 00:35:32,163 So let's talk about one of your success coming up 688 00:35:32,163 --> 00:35:35,133 shortly, which will also feature our very own Tim. 689 00:35:35,533 --> 00:35:38,769 Tell us about your upcoming event in Colorado Springs. 690 00:35:39,070 --> 00:35:39,770 Yeah. 691 00:35:39,770 --> 00:35:45,076 So as as I went through my journey, I discovered all the amazing things 692 00:35:45,076 --> 00:35:48,212 that fitness had done for me in my confidence and my strength, 693 00:35:48,212 --> 00:35:52,083 both physically and emotionally, helped me get through the bullying situation. 694 00:35:52,450 --> 00:35:55,686 And I really want to share that with every person I can. 695 00:35:55,686 --> 00:35:59,524 And I started to discover that training, even though I love one 696 00:35:59,524 --> 00:36:03,494 on one personal training with my clients, I really want to reach a broader 697 00:36:03,494 --> 00:36:07,532 audience with the education and the resources that our community has. 698 00:36:07,999 --> 00:36:12,670 And we've relocated to Colorado Springs in 2018, and that's Olympic City, 699 00:36:12,670 --> 00:36:16,274 USA, at the home of, our Olympic training center and Paralympic training center, 700 00:36:16,507 --> 00:36:19,710 which is as full of inspiration and success stories. 701 00:36:19,710 --> 00:36:23,281 So I thought, let's get all of our resources pool together 702 00:36:23,281 --> 00:36:26,551 and share what the amazing community has to offer 703 00:36:26,751 --> 00:36:29,620 for somebody that might feel helpless, that might feel defeated. 704 00:36:29,620 --> 00:36:30,721 They don't know where to start. 705 00:36:30,721 --> 00:36:32,657 They're overwhelmed with information. 706 00:36:32,657 --> 00:36:35,960 Let's put it in one place and just give them amazing 707 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,931 a fun day of activities and people that really want to serve them. 708 00:36:40,331 --> 00:36:43,801 So we are hosting a large scale health and fitness expo, 709 00:36:43,801 --> 00:36:46,938 working with the Olympic and Paralympic Training Center here in Colorado 710 00:36:46,938 --> 00:36:52,343 Springs, Olympic City, USA and Dick's Sporting Goods and our Giving campaign. 711 00:36:52,343 --> 00:36:56,147 All of our admissions collected from the event are benefiting the Pikes Peak 712 00:36:56,147 --> 00:37:00,184 Suicide Prevention Partnership, which is a registered 501c nonprofit. 713 00:37:00,518 --> 00:37:04,689 We have a huge veteran community here, very high suicide rate 714 00:37:04,689 --> 00:37:08,559 because of the PTSD that our warriors and our heroes have endured 715 00:37:08,559 --> 00:37:12,930 through their deployments and through their efforts to keep our country free. 716 00:37:13,264 --> 00:37:17,335 And so there is a huge need for mental health resources in our community. 717 00:37:17,335 --> 00:37:19,237 That's why we chose that campaign. 718 00:37:19,237 --> 00:37:24,141 We want to ensure diversity and inclusion in the realm of wellness and fitness 719 00:37:24,141 --> 00:37:27,612 for all of our demographics, including our children, our seniors, 720 00:37:27,878 --> 00:37:29,914 our persons with special needs and disabilities, 721 00:37:29,914 --> 00:37:32,917 and of course, our military and veterans and first responders. 722 00:37:33,150 --> 00:37:36,120 So we're really making this a comprehensive event. 723 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:41,592 Our mission is to develop and maintain and help the Colorado Springs community 724 00:37:41,792 --> 00:37:45,263 develop and a vibrant lifestyle regardless of their age, 725 00:37:45,496 --> 00:37:47,164 no matter if they're just starting out in fitness 726 00:37:47,164 --> 00:37:50,101 or they're the elite athlete looking for the next challenge, 727 00:37:50,101 --> 00:37:52,903 whether they know a lot about fitness or they're just 728 00:37:52,903 --> 00:37:54,505 they don't know the difference between a barbell 729 00:37:54,505 --> 00:37:56,941 and a dumbbell like I did when I first started 730 00:37:56,941 --> 00:38:00,177 that We're we're just really passionate about providing education, 731 00:38:00,411 --> 00:38:03,781 real connections between businesses and our community 732 00:38:04,115 --> 00:38:07,451 and really helping to make this. 733 00:38:08,085 --> 00:38:10,921 I think we're ranked seventh healthiest state 734 00:38:10,921 --> 00:38:13,991 currently, and I'd love to see us get up to number one. 735 00:38:14,325 --> 00:38:16,961 How many years have you been running this event? 736 00:38:16,961 --> 00:38:18,162 This will be your number three 737 00:38:18,162 --> 00:38:21,599 for doing an expo, although this is the first year at this scale. 738 00:38:21,932 --> 00:38:24,402 So this is this is a huge event. Wow. 739 00:38:24,402 --> 00:38:28,172 And we'll have Olympic athletes, Paralympic athletes there 740 00:38:28,372 --> 00:38:31,208 sharing their inspirational stories and all of the obstacles 741 00:38:31,208 --> 00:38:33,678 they have overcome to get where they are. 742 00:38:33,678 --> 00:38:36,113 We're going to have a 50 foot obstacle course 743 00:38:36,113 --> 00:38:38,582 for families to run through and do things together. 744 00:38:38,582 --> 00:38:41,519 A bouncy castle off the Ninja Warrior course. 745 00:38:41,519 --> 00:38:44,121 We're going to have live bike stunt guys 746 00:38:44,121 --> 00:38:47,124 doing the backflips and three sixes landing on the airbag. 747 00:38:47,358 --> 00:38:49,060 We're even having a mobile blood drive. 748 00:38:49,060 --> 00:38:52,196 So just attending this event, you can save two lives. 749 00:38:52,196 --> 00:38:54,265 You can save one because your admission fee 750 00:38:54,265 --> 00:38:57,268 is going to go to the Pikes Peak Suicide Prevention. 751 00:38:57,335 --> 00:39:00,338 You can save a second life by donating a pint of blood. 752 00:39:00,404 --> 00:39:02,073 Bruce, you are missing out. 753 00:39:02,073 --> 00:39:04,842 I'm so excited to be a part of that with you guys too. 754 00:39:04,842 --> 00:39:07,378 Yeah, and I'm so excited you're going to be there. 755 00:39:07,378 --> 00:39:09,347 I'm so excited they're going to be there. 756 00:39:09,347 --> 00:39:12,283 Well, since I'm missing out, instead of just having a nice off 757 00:39:12,283 --> 00:39:16,020 ramp of Sandy's interviewing sentiment, just put her on the spot out of spite. 758 00:39:16,020 --> 00:39:19,023 So you have 30 seconds to give 759 00:39:19,023 --> 00:39:22,626 the one fitness tip, the best fitness you can give to anybody. 760 00:39:22,827 --> 00:39:24,962 Start small. 761 00:39:24,962 --> 00:39:28,432 Everybody wants to conquer Rome in a day, and that's why we fail. 762 00:39:28,432 --> 00:39:29,900 We epic fail. 763 00:39:29,900 --> 00:39:32,436 Start small if it means getting 8 hours of sleep, 764 00:39:32,436 --> 00:39:36,207 if it means drinking water, it can be that small. 765 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:37,975 And think of a compass. 766 00:39:37,975 --> 00:39:41,746 If you get up one degree, it doesn't look like much for the first couple of days. 767 00:39:41,746 --> 00:39:44,882 But two weeks into your journey, you're going to be like, Where the heck am I? 768 00:39:45,483 --> 00:39:49,086 Start small and the small steps will lead to big changes over. 769 00:39:49,086 --> 00:39:50,221 Time all of it. 770 00:39:52,356 --> 00:39:53,357 Sandy with an I 771 00:39:53,357 --> 00:39:56,360 thank you so much for joining us, for sharing your story 772 00:39:56,594 --> 00:39:59,597 and for being so open and for doing all that you do. 773 00:40:00,097 --> 00:40:03,300 Thank you for bringing all of this to the forefront 774 00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:06,837 and really making a change in our in our world. 775 00:40:07,471 --> 00:40:10,741 This is not just a a state problem, a community problem. 776 00:40:10,741 --> 00:40:12,109 It's a it's a big problem. 777 00:40:12,109 --> 00:40:15,813 And I appreciate you guys educating and sharing with everyone. 778 00:40:16,380 --> 00:40:18,983 We appreciate having you on the show, sharing your story. 779 00:40:18,983 --> 00:40:22,586 I know sometimes talking about this some people think it's a sign of weakness. 780 00:40:22,586 --> 00:40:23,654 It's not. It's growth. 781 00:40:23,654 --> 00:40:26,957 And you actually learn something through this when you're getting bullied. 782 00:40:26,957 --> 00:40:29,760 People at that time think about, wow, this is horrible in my life. 783 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,797 But when you think back to it you learn so much about yourself, 784 00:40:32,930 --> 00:40:33,998 you can persevere through that. 785 00:40:33,998 --> 00:40:36,600 You can pretty much persevere through anything. 786 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,870 Sandy, if people want to get a hold of you, how do we do that? 787 00:40:40,070 --> 00:40:42,072 You can contact me on my website. 788 00:40:42,072 --> 00:40:44,742 Sandy griffin. Sandy with an eye. 789 00:40:44,742 --> 00:40:49,447 Griffin with i's dot com or reach out to me at my email address. 790 00:40:49,447 --> 00:40:51,715 Dandy Griffin at me dot com. 791 00:40:52,883 --> 00:40:55,119 And as to where you can find us 792 00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:58,456 you can find us on Facebook at our very own support group 793 00:40:58,622 --> 00:41:03,961 which is karate chop bullying support group where not only will you find posts 794 00:41:04,195 --> 00:41:08,365 with some information about bullying, but you can share your own story with us. 795 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,502 And you can also email your stories at 796 00:41:11,502 --> 00:41:14,505 Cry Chat bullying at gmail.com. 797 00:41:14,605 --> 00:41:17,107 If you are a victim of bullying, 798 00:41:17,107 --> 00:41:21,178 you can find some resources at the government's own bullying website, 799 00:41:21,445 --> 00:41:25,916 which is stop bullying dot gov as well as at pacer 800 00:41:26,083 --> 00:41:29,086 dot org slash bullying. 801 00:41:30,054 --> 00:41:33,858 And if you're contemplating suicide or if you're having bad thoughts, 802 00:41:33,858 --> 00:41:38,629 we implore you to reach out to the national Suicide hotline at 988. 803 00:41:39,196 --> 00:41:42,032 I'm Bruce next for Tim Flynn. 804 00:41:42,032 --> 00:41:44,101 Thank you for listening here. 805 00:41:44,101 --> 00:41:46,971 We are going to break the silence on bullying 806 00:41:46,971 --> 00:41:49,173 and we're going to continue the conversation next week.