Whenever there's an election.

And especially one where the political alignment of the government changes.

There's always questions of well, what's it going to mean to me?

And especially for transit.

Hi.

I'm Tris Hussey editor of the podcast, stepping in for Paul this week.

And we have a really great show for you.

We have a legislative update hosted by Rich Sampson, the Executive

Director of the Southwest Transit Association or SWTA and Becca Green,

their Legislative Committee Chair talking about, well what's next.

Now that we have a new administrate.

Restoration coming into the United States and both houses of Congress.

Are controlled by the Republican Party.

So what does this mean for transit?

Well, Rich and Becca.

Layout.

Everything.

The thing that they think is on the horizon and some fantastic tips.

Tips for how you can connect with your elected officials.

No matter where they stand on the political spectrum.

This advice.

Nice works.

Even outside of the United States.

All politics is local.

All politicians want to look good for their constituents.

Fronts in the areas they serve.

And, you know, There aren't that?

Many better ways.

To serve your constituents than supporting public transit.

Now.

Here are Rich and Becca and their legislative.

Thanks for joining us here today for SWATA's

2024 Election Recap Session.

I'm Rich Sampson, the Executive Director of the Southwest

Transit Association, SWATA.

I'm joined today here with Becca Green from Rock Region

Metro in Little Rock, Arkansas.

And Becca is our Legislative Committee Chair for SWATA.

And Becca, you want to introduce yourself?

Sure.

thanks everyone for joining us this morning.

I'm Becca Green.

I'm the Chief Planning and Communications Officer at Rock Region Metro.

Rich and I were just talking before this, call started that, legislative

affairs, public affairs is just a fraction of what I do at a small agency.

And I'm sure many of you out there are in similar positions, but we're

excited to talk about the importance of the work that we do in the public

affairs space, especially as we, gear up for an incoming administration.

Yeah, thanks, Becca, and appreciate you talking through

this with our attendees and me here.

In terms of, the agenda for today, we're going to look at, some,

initially look at some ballot measures across the SWTA of the nation.

We're going to be setting the stage for the reauthorization of the Bipartisan

Infrastructure Law, also called the IIJA.

We're going to talk about the existing federal transit funding programs

and where they're headed in the new Congress and the new administration.

Some issues on regulatory relief and policy changes that will play into the

reauthorization, just, you know, aspects and proposals as we move forward, and

then kind of we'll wrap up with how do we, you know, move forward with

messaging for the new leadership that was just elected or, you know, in

some cases reelected in Washington.

So that's kind of our game plan for today.

Becca you want to kick us off?

Sure, thanks Rich.

So let's start with transit ballot initiatives.

87 of transit initiatives on the ballot won this year, which means

that transit investment continues to be popular among voters.

some of our initiatives were part of the SWATA Nation, so Rich, do you

want to take us through those and what we can learn from their success?

Yeah, absolutely.

And we had a really good day on Tuesday last week in terms of voters in the

SWATA nation that had a chance to approve ballot measures, whether referendums

or taxing, you know, measures and things like that in that direction.

The Phoenix region, primarily Maricopa County, they had a big

measure to fund Valley Metro and other services in that region.

It's been a multi year effort that Valley Metro and advocates in the region have

been really pressing forward and a lot of, you know, demographic and political

changes in Arizona the last few years and the timing of this seemed to be just

right for Valley Metro and their peers.

Arizona Transit Association has done great work on this topic, kind

of galvanizing everybody together.

So, this presents some short and long term funding for Phoenix and

Valley Metro to focus on their current services and do even more.

So, that was one of the highlights in the same state up in Arizona and Flagstaff.

Mountain Lion had another successful measure that continued, their existing

sales tax that they used to support their service there and will allow them to fund

new and improve services in the town that is home to Northern Arizona University.

And, you know, a real good market for transit.

Lots of folks that are taking, you know, lots of frequent short

trips, online and elsewhere.

So we're pleased to see that one in a small urban type community.

And then Denver RTD was a little different.

there was a ballot measure that.

was basically allowing Denver RTD to keep funding that was above or kind of not,

fully allocated within the, sales tax that if they got more revenue through

the sales tax, they're allowed to keep it rather than having to send it back to the

state, along with some other measures that really provides some stability for Denver

. We know there's some other ballot measures across country.

Nashville was another good success story of increasing fixed route service along

with paratransit and microtransit there.

Previously, Nashville's had some trouble at the ballot box for transit measures.

This is a good sign to see them, come through for the transit system

there, so, again, most of the measures put before, voters on election day

were successful, so, if we look at the local level, transit is and has,

keeps doing very well among voters.

Yeah, so we want to congratulate all of our colleagues

who worked on all these campaigns and, And, you know, we wanted to throw

Nashville in there because 87 percent wins means that 13 percent didn't.

If that happens to be you and your work, don't get discouraged because the

name of the game in Nashville is, if at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

So congrats to all.

it's a few weeks until 2025, just a few weeks, and we have a new

administration taking the reins.

What is most important for the transit industry to gain

and protect in the new year?

Yeah, that's a good question, Becca, and, you know, at

the federal level, with, you know, a new presidential administration or a

returning presidential administration, you know, this has only happened one

time in American history before with non consecutive presidential terms.

There'll be some new ground for folks, along with, you know,

Republicans in control of the House and the Senate, at least according

to current projections in the House.

the main bill that funds transit is the Bipartisan Infrastructure

Law or the infrastructure bill.

Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act.

and some good news on that front, Becca, we don't often get to say there

was wisdom that happens in Congress, but when they passed this bill, about

five years ago, four or five years ago, they extended it not only through this

presidential election, but also into late 2026, September 30th of that year,

to be exact, and What that's going to do is take this bill right up to the front

door of the midterms election cycle.

So this is where the funding for all the programs, both discretionary

and formula, comes through.

We're set at least for the next foreseeable future.

you know, the real focus is going to be the appropriations process, and

I'll get to that in a second, but In terms of setting the stage for what

will happen in the reauthorization going forward, there was a group of

bipartisan folks on the Senate side last time that really set the stage

for what became this bill, at least in terms of the, the funding aspects of it.

There weren't a whole lot of policy changes in the BIL last

time, We had a couple of folks from our region on that group who,

really negotiated that compromise.

A few of those folks have left, but I think that the SWATA Nation has real

good opportunity, especially through Senator Cassidy, and I think Mark

Kelly from Arizona so hopefully the stability continues with this, with,

a bipartisan group going forward.

We'll see, um, other folks that might be good opportunities.

Senator Moran in Kansas is one of those folks.

so we'll be seeing if there's a sense of bipartisanship

that will continue in the Senate when it comes time to reauthorize this bill.

Well, that's great news, because as we all know, that was

a historic investment in funding.

Yeah, and you know, just to touch on the appropriations

process , we won't really go into what the prospects are in the new Congress,

but first of all, I always like to show this slide anytime we're talking about

federal policy and legislation is.

Three A's of funding programs, and this isn't just our bill, but many programs, is

the authorization process that establishes a multi year bill, the appropriations

process by which Congress decides how much those programs are going to be

getting , and then the apportionment process by which the bureaucratic programs

actually says, okay, we have that funding available, this is, we're going to

distribute it according to the formulas or different competitive grant programs.

So, I always like to note that.

And then, just look again what happened in the current Congress, so as in, not

the folks that have been re elected for 25, 26, but The folks that are in the

current Congress, what they've done on the transportation and housing and urban

development appropriations so far is the House, both, both chambers passed their

bills on appropriations for our funding , but House bill had a cut in transit, about

10 percent less than the authorized level, but most of those funds were targeted

at the capital investment grant program.

We'll talk about that more in a minute.

On the Senate side, now, this is a Senate that's currently

controlled by Democrats that will be transitioning to Republican control.

They actually increased funding, above authorized levels.

and I also want to know, and we'll talk about this again later, is,

they made some changes to the federal share requirements for 5310 and 5311.

So, I can't say what's going to happen again, but there were some trends that may

continue or we may see snippets of going forward in the appropriations process.

So, again, we'll help you keep attuned to what's going on

on the appropriations side.

But this is where, for 2025 and most of 26, we're going to

be looking at in Washington.

Okay, so we talked about the biggie, the bipartisan infrastructure

bills, so let's dive into some more specific pots of funding that we need

to worry about for the coming year.

Yeah, so, you know, the good news here, and this is not just

what's been happening recently, it's kind of been the trend over the last

few Congresses and few Presidential Administrations is the formula program,

so The programs that, in the law, are written out exactly how they're supposed

to be distributed in funding, so the 5307 program for urban transit, 5310 for

specialized and 5311 for rural communities is pretty uncontroversial in the Congress,

no matter who's in charge of that.

The good thing there is, those funds are backed up by the Highway Trust Fund

and the Transit Trust Fund dollars.

So, it's harder for, If anybody wants to make specific cuts to

go after those because they have specific revenue connected to them.

so I would say if you're, you know, if you get a lot of funding through

those programs and if you're on the call today, you probably do.

I would not be as worried about those funds.

The greatest threat would be like a general government wide

rescission of a certain percentage.

But my, my perspective is these programs were, will probably

not be targeted directly.

5309 for bus and bus facilities program, both the, there's a formula aspect of

that, which again I think will be pretty, pretty, you know, safe moving forward.

Even the competitive slash discretionary program, this is a program that

is purchasing vehicles, purchasing things for transit systems, again,

across the country and not just for particular urban areas on in any areas.

It's a nationwide program.

I don't predict a lot of, turbulence heading that way for that program.

State of Good Repair repair programs also probably have some good leniency there,

but we need to start thinking about how we message this program specifically in terms

of fixing assets that we already have.

The, you know, President Elect Trump, you know, that was something you focused

on before, but if you noticed on all the speeches, he had a sign up below

his podium saying, Trump will fix it.

State of good repair is a chance to connect to that,

that momentum on fixing things.

so I think this is a chance for the transit industry to kind of

connect with some of that messaging.

and I don't mean to suggest that Democrats also don't want to fix things.

This is something that, if we kind of distill it to that message,

we, we probably have a good shot of making a good case lastly.

The capital investment programs, new and small starts, core capacity.

This is where we may see some friction, and we have in the past, particularly

in the previous Trump administration, of these are programs that were moved outside

the trust fund, funding levels before, and this is where you may start to see some,

some issues going on as the appropriations process unfolds, and specifically how much

money is authorized for those programs.

So, this be a tougher one to figure out where we're heading on, but now is the

time to make your case for these programs that we do need to continue investment.

SWATA strongly supports them.

just in terms of looking at the dynamics though, this is, this will

be our toughest battle, going forward.

So, let's switch for a minute and talk about regulatory relief,

starting with workforce development.

We know that, there are transit advocates who are pursuing dropping the under

the hood requirement, for example, for fixed route operators pursuing

CDL licensing, which should be, you know, hopefully a best practice that

can be added on the federal level for recommendations for all the states.

But do you think the incoming administration will be open to this

idea and are there other actions we should be taking to bring more

incoming administration awareness about the ongoing shortage of fixed

route bus operators and any other forms of relief that we can find?

Yeah, Becca, I think that's a good question.

And, you know, a waiver from the FMCSA's under the hood requirement is, I think,

a reasonable first step in addressing the issues, specifically those related

to CDL, commercial driver's licenses.

The challenge for us is that this is, these were enacted in a piece of

legislation that really wasn't intended to impact transit as much as it has.

It was mostly for over the road transit.

trucking.

And regardless of what's going on, I think in the Trump administration,

we heard pretty clearly from Congress that they don't have much interest

in changing the legislation there.

It was a lot of hard work on both sides.

I don't expect that dynamic to change, but a waiver is a process that

doesn't require reopening the hood, so to speak, of that legislation.

So, it's one area that, you know, doesn't require any additional funding,

and generally, if you want to make government less cumbersome for folks,

this might be a, an approach that has some, some currency right now,

is trying to remove things that, are needlessly complicated in government.

I think also on the CDL aspect, we're going to want to look at how that

impacts with, the testing program in general and how we can eventually start

heading towards a you know, standalone transit exemption from CDL rules.

But again, that's something that we're going to take, need to take a longer

term effort in delivering in really, you know, delineate where we stand

out in terms of what are our needs for, drivers licensing for buses.

You know, most transit agencies don't even have transit operators

doing maintenance directly.

They don't want them touching the buses.

There's a different, computer aspect of modern vehicles, both small

vehicles and large vehicles, that.

This process doesn't really get at very well, but for the time being,

focusing on that under the hood waiver, we also want to examine the saliva

testing for marijuana drug testing, and encouraging the Health and Human Services

Department to accelerate the deployment of those testing sites for saliva.

You know, we're not looking at any major drug classification changes

coming up anytime soon, and we really aren't interested in that.

It's how do we have a comparable process for the way that

we do alcohol testing now.

Making that so these jobs are more appealing to folks who may

be in a state where marijuana is legal at the state level.

And aren't coming to work under the influence.

And that's what we're looking for.

So that's another element is that marijuana saliva testing.

But overall, we need to be connecting with new and kind of new ways of

modeling encouraging operator jobs to make them more attractive to folks who

might want to work at transit, you know, we're looking at shift assignments or

the work life balance, you know, and opportunities for advancement is, and

these aren't really areas that the federal government is responsible for.

This is more an industry response to the changing workplace dynamics we have

since COVID in terms of it's really tough to make a bus driver jobs attractive if

you have to show up every day at 4:30 AM and you might have a split shift in

the middle and you're not getting home 'til 8 or 9 PM and who knows when you

might have a Saturday or Sunday off ever.

So making these jobs more appealing and kind of splitting

up some of those shift things.

obviously, you know, a conversation needs to have with your, your, your

union shop if you're a labor property.

But regardless, that's something that we need to focus on as an industry.

So, Becca, I'd say there's a bunch of issues there on the driver shortages

that we can be looking at, both from an advocacy perspective, but also an

industry internal perspective in terms of making those jobs more appealing.

Right.

Well, and, kind of switching over to, you know, we talked about some of the

human based regulatory relief issues, let's, let's go look at vehicles, and

it may be because, we finally received a bunch of our long outstanding deliveries

of vehicles, for our agency, but I don't hear as much, I feel like, about

the small bus crisis, so what are your thoughts on, whether this is a big of

an issue, in our industry and if so, what are some opportunities we can

seek with the incoming administration to assist our agencies in getting

the vehicles that we need to either continue service or start new service.

Yeah, another hot button issue there, Becca, and I think what we're

looking at is definitely an improvement in the small bus space, I think, you

know, the supply, the supply delays have improved dramatically in the last year

or so, and good work from the supplier sectors, in providing those vehicles.

The backlog has really decreased, but the issue that we're still having is

the price of the vehicles is not going down, and honestly, it's probably

unrealistic to expect that they're ever going to go back down to where

they were, you know, inflation has hit us all, and this is a ramification of

inflation in our industries that the cost of the vehicles is increased.

And so I think that's where we're going to continue to see, you

know, if not a crisis, a level, a point of concern on small vehicles.

And I think the price point on large vehicles is also a concern.

What the game is going to be for us going, you know, moving forward is making

sure we're clear about the expectations that we're discussing with policymakers

in Washington and elsewhere in terms of how much is that dollar in federal

investment getting us in a new vehicle?

Even though they, the BIL really increased the amount of funding available to us,

it hasn't really kept pace with the increased cost of both vehicles, along

with the driver, pay that has gone up, and I don't think anybody's opposed to

drivers making more money at all, or, you know, keeping pace with the industry,

but there are direct challenges that came at a time when we got a bunch

more money, But our costs went all up by, if not that same amount or even a

little more during the height of COVID.

So it's a real battle that we're facing on that vehicle shortages issue.

I think more so on the price point right now.

Right, right.

Well, and I know we've talked about funding, a good bit at the

beginning of this session, but, where are we with the push to reduce

the local match requirements from some smaller agencies out there?

Yeah.

And I think we saw some, some momentum going on during the COVID bills in

Things just didn't quite line up to get anything passed through Congress, either

the previous one or the current one, in terms of changing those ratios, but the

Biden Administration proposed, operating assistance, local match relief for when

you're using, local match, you need local match for operating support several times.

Congress just recently, I mentioned in the appropriations process on the

Senate side, Looking at changing those requirements for the specialized and rural

programs, and we obviously think that, especially for smaller urban properties,

that is a big concern, particularly those ones that aren't eligible for,

like, the STIC program right now.

So, we'll see where it all heads.

Senator Smith from Minnesota has put out a bill a couple times now to change

the rural local match requirement.

And, I think that has a chance to build some momentum.

in the current Congress, there were some, bipartisan co sponsors

for that bill, previously.

So, I think you'll see that bill get reintroduced when the new Congress

comes in, and it really to be a, a marker for where they want to

have, have, reauthorization proceed.

The more that we can bring up the case of, particularly for, you know, smaller

systems, rural, specialized, and small urban, that, the local match is really

a challenging, barrier to making more progress and, you know, running more

frequent service, running more reliable service, and thereby attracting riders.

We're leaving so much federal funding on the table that's already been approved.

We can make our, the federal investment go further by just, you know, extending

that local match to a higher level.

So I think there's some good prospects to see that as part of the bill that

eventually replaces the, the BILIIJA.

Right.

Well, and speaking of, you know, all this, all the funding sources out there,

and you kind of touched on this a little bit earlier, but, the Highway Trust Fund,

which of course I think is a misnomer because it also benefits transit.

So, do we think that this incoming Congress is going to be the Congress

that helps not only meet current funding needs out of that revenue source,

but also grows it for the future?

This one I wish I could, you know, come sweeping in

with a lot of positive energy on, but I honestly don't see them being the

ones to make the change, you know, the, but we're into now our third or

fourth Presidential Administration through the bill, and doubled that in

a number of Congresses that have just kicked the can down the road so many

times on this in terms of finding a long term predictable revenue source

for all the transportation programs.

I don't think you're going to see a lot of initiative on congestion pricing.

Or maybe a little more dabbling on vehicle miles, travels, but, it's, it's

hard to say that there's going to be a, a large, initiative and momentum to,

to deal with the, you know, the 3, 000 pound gorilla or elephant or whatever

animal you want to say of that size.

So I would love, love, love, love for the Trump Administration or the new

Congress to prove us wrong and say, We've got a brand new idea on how to

deal with this that saves everybody money and provides new investment.

I'm not sure the holes in the Swiss cheese will line up quite so

favorably on that one though, Becca.

And I just want to note that, in the most recent, FTA circular, That

kind of made some technical changes to a bunch of program requirements.

This came out just a few weeks ago.

things like indirect cost, agreements and, property that you're doing in

capital projects, but most notably the vehicle disposition, changes that, you

know, a lot of folks were working on that sale of vehicles past useful life.

There's a little bit more leeway here, in terms of what you're allowed

to do between that $5-10,000 range.

I just want to note all these technical corrections is some

things that were recently changed by the current Administration.

I doubt that these will be targets to go back to what they were.

These are all very highly technical changes, but if you haven't taken a

look at them yet, do check out that FTA circular if you like, we can send

you a link to that, but I do think it kind of sets the stage for some of

those regulatory and technical changes that don't cost a lot of money, or any

money in most cases, that we might be able to build some easy wins on with

the new Congress in terms of if you can change some of these things that don't

require us to get any new funding, but can help us act more like a business.

I do think there's some real opportunities there in working with the Trump

Administration along with the new Congress on things like, you know, you mentioned,

the CDL issues and the, the, testing, saliva testing, but Also, potentially

things like the Buy America Domestic Content provisions and things like that.

So, just keep your ears open and let us know what areas in current statute are

really challenging for your agencies.

And we want to start, you know, having a good extensive list of those technical

corrections we need to be working on.

Well, and you know, there was a lot of rhetoric in the, in the election

about affordability and housing, and you know, I think that goes hand in hand

with transit, so what about, and maybe it seems extra greedy, but given that

we've had the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill not that long ago in the past,

but what are some potential new funding sources for transit that kind of tap into

the the role that we play with transit and transit adjacent community needs

centered around housing and affordability.

Yeah, and you know, I think we heard a lot about, you

know, affordability in the context of inflation this past week in

terms of where voters viewed that.

And it's one of those things, I think, it's something that

transit's always been doing.

You know, we've had, transit oriented development grants in place for a

while, and they're actually one of the few programs that were sometimes

undersubscribed in the last couple rounds of funding in that there was actually

more funding available than was requested.

I know the last, I think, one or two might have been over that level, but I

think we're talking about the way that we frame things like TOD in that we've

always been making these projects focused on affordability for people to get to

jobs and health care and education.

If we do transit right, we solve a lot of these challenges that people

who are struggling face every day from, you know, finding an affordable

way to get to work or housing that might be better located to their jobs.

Faith communities and things like that.

When transit works well and when it's properly invested, we kind of

are one of those, you know, magic ingredients, you know, don't want to

say silver bullet, but one of those, you know, things that bring all sorts of

different needs and challenges together.

if we do it properly.

So I, yeah, Becca, I think, you know, working with some of these programs

on emphasizing affordability and connectivity with existing communities

where they're talking about, you know, getting to childcare or, you know,

training, things like that, particularly for folks that are looking for, you

know, highly skilled jobs training.

These might be really good, you know, emphases in the new

government that's coming in.

The other area I wanted to point out is there's always, you know, the opportunity

to realize some more funding through the highway administration funds,

FHWA, you know, and there's a lot of

allowability built into the BIL at least to shift and flex some of those funds.

We don't do that a lot because we don't have a lot of focus, you know, across the

board, no, not calling out any particular State, and there's some that's, that

States that do really well in this, of connecting That investment to how

those states run their DOTs and flexing that, those highway funds to transit.

So I think, you know, most immediately, those funds are already there in terms of

new funding that you asked about, Becca.

So, opportunities to flex more highway fund dollars to transit might be an

opportunity for us going forward.

Good.

And definitely the message of affordability and being linked to transit,

I think, is something we can carry forward in our messaging, that the election

was a hot buzzword during the election.

You know, earlier this year, SWATA hosted, another session on advocacy work, at the,

not only the state level, but also the federal level, and we had some colleagues

from Colorado, Louisiana, and then also from Tennessee and Oregon on that call

and I was so impressed with the work that they're doing with reaching out to their

respective delegations and keeping transit investment at the forefront of those

conversations and community conversations.

And some of the things that they struck me, that struck me as being

relevant to moving forward with advocacy in 2025 was, just, just a

return to basic relationship building.

I remember, Anne from Colorado had said that she spent a lot of time

in meetings that had nothing to do with transit, but she just wanted to

be present to start building those relationships with other community

members that she runs across in her work and her role as an advocate position.

And so I think that's also important to kind of work on mending some

of the relationships or even just starting them to begin with, with

residents and voters who are both in the urban space and rural space.

She also mentioned success in pairing transit initiatives with initiatives

involving people with disabilities and people who are senior citizens

because this country is aging.

Which I think is, also important to keep in mind from a messaging standpoint

as we, as we do our work in 2025.

There were also some stories about how other agencies would take their riders

to Capitol Hill to visit with elected officials, one on one and A real world

human interest story, which human interest stories are always key to our visits with

our respective delegations and making sure they understand how we're using our funds.

I know that every time I go to the Hill, I begin and end every meeting

that we have with a thank you.

And tell, tell about the actual ways that we are using those funds and

how it's affecting people's lives and how we're connecting them to the

places that are meaningful to them.

So what are some of the other messages that you think that we

should be carrying forward in 2025 with this new Administration?

Yeah, you know, I think, Becca you're absolutely right to note

that, you know, having those foundations in your relationships at the State

level really sets the stage for a good pattern to bring up to Washington.

You know, I, I mentioned a couple ideas that, you know, if you, teasing out

some things that we heard during the campaigns is, first of all, that fix

it message going on in Washington and that, there, I, there's a perception.

And.

I think folks can disagree how much it actually exists, that things aren't

working well, the opportunity for transit to be a solution, right out

of the box to things working better, So tapping into that, fix It messaging

through new vehicles, improved stations, you know, ways that we can get federal

programs working to, you know, produce tangible changes and improvements,

even in just our sector of communities.

You know, if we have a chance to rehabilitate some, you know,

lighting at a transit facility or the streetscape along a good bus route.

This could be ways for us to demonstrate that, hey, these programs actually do

have, you know, ways of improving things, but also, you know, that connection to

affordability, that, you know, we can reduce your, you know, monthly costs if

you don't have to drive as far to work every day, you can take transit to maybe

a place that's a little closer to you, or you new housing that might be located,

you know, in a good, look, you know, area for transit that also connects into, you

know, reducing cost for no shows for, you know, medical visits and things like that.

There's a, a, a host of ways that transit is a source of savings, to

the business community, to, you know, families and individuals, who might

be low income or, you know, folks that just looking for some more options

to congestion and things like that.

And then I think branding, the changes that we need in

Washington is common sense.

That we're actually looking for less government in a lot of these things.

And I think we went through a number of ways where we could,

we're looking for the government to be a little less onerous on us.

Tying those connections into ways that if we're going to have programs

that, you know, if they're not really designed effectively to serve people,

we can change them to be a lighter touch, and I think these three

themes, at least at the federal level, along with, you know, like you said,

highlighting that the good work that we're doing on a, you know, individual

level where we can make connections with good stories through people.

And I know, you know, the national associations like APTA and CTA do

a good job of this along with all the state transit associations.

The more we can share those stories and kind of find out what, you know,

what makes light bulbs go on for folks in Washington or the state capitol is

a good, good way to go forward and, just, you know, specifically on, state

funding, the, the ways that we can get out before these legislatures, and I

know some of them have different cycles than others, and getting those meetings

established and exactly what we'd like to see in terms of, we can realize

more federal funding that's already in place, if we have better local match.

but again, as you mentioned, it all comes down to building strong

relationships and, Doing things like saying thanks, like you mentioned,

and not always coming with an ask.

sometimes it's just coming and saying, we'd like to tell you what's going

on in our system, thanks to the investment you already provided for us.

You know, it, it, it, if you have an ask, that's, you know, it's never a

bad thing to let them know what you're looking for, but it's always a good

thing to say, we really appreciate what you've done for us already.

We don't have a, something you need us to do.

We need you to do for us right now.

We want you to come and celebrate with us on a new facility or whatever

and keep those relationships going in terms of positive development.

So I think those are some of the keys, going forward.

And Becca, you know, if you have some other thoughts on that messaging before

we take some questions and all that.

Yeah, no, I think that's all good stuff.

I love the phrase, transit can be a source of savings.

I've filed that away from my toolbox because that is so true.

And then, you know, just the, you know, not always having an ask.

I think that's absolutely key.

It's kind of, it's kind of like you are talking with your friends.

You know, you don't want to always be asking your friend for something

and be a taker all the time.

Sometimes.

You know, it helps elected officials have, they want wins too.

They want to be out there.

They want to be part of the.

The, you know, fun, festive things, to show, when you're showing off kind of what

your investments are bringing, be sure to always invite people, even if they, they

really had, like a low to no involvement in the project, it never hurts, it's

never a bad idea to invite out people.

All of your respective local, state, and federal delegations, and they usually have

staff members in your area, if they can't make it themselves, to come out and see,

and that just helps build those personal relationships as you do things like

that, when you don't have to have an ask.

It's just a fun day where everybody gets to bask in everyone's happiness

about a project finished, you know, so I see that we do have one

question to start us off in the Q& A.

from Mike Bartholomew, he's asking if, will the tariffs proposed by the President

Elect potentially affect supply, cost, and availability, especially for BEBs?

Yeah, and thanks, Mike.

Good to hear from you, as always.

Uh, yeah, I think that's a really good question, and unknown, in

terms of how those tariffs are going to play out, you know.

What actually happens is the tariff gets imposed on the domestic

company that's importing that, that object or that product.

and we'll see, you know, how those tariffs are imposed.

Are they, are they going to be on specific sectors?

You know, like, private automobiles, are they going to be on things

like steel and other factors?

So, you know, the, we, we talk about, you know, sometimes the Buy America provisions

being onerous, and I think in a lot of ways they are, but in some ways it might

shield our industry somewhat in that we were not allowed, at least if you're

using federal funds, to, you know, take advantage of some of those exported,

you know, international products.

I think it's really a good point, you know, Michael, to monitor those, that

tariffs discussion as it goes forward.

The details on what sectors of the economy and industries are, you know, subject

to tariffs is really unknown right now.

But I do appreciate you bringing that up because it's something that obviously

was a big focus of the Trump campaign, you know, especially in the final days.

So we need to hear more.

You know, ideas on the proposals, and that's something that from

SWATA will take a good hard look at.

Other thoughts, comments?

Now we have, Sean Riley who asked in the chat, the first

Trump Administration urged Congress to eliminate the CIG program.

Will this be a focus of the second administration?

Again, the, the proposals haven't been that granular.

I wouldn't be surprised if it shows up in documents and, you know,

whether it's part of, as you can tell, we're, we're, we're nonpartisan here.

We're not, you know, inflecting our judgments on anything.

I will say that proposals to eliminate the capital investment grants program have

been in most proposals from, folks who were on the right side for a long time,

and generally Congress has not been in favor of getting rid of them entirely.

I think much more likely, in this, my, my, my opinion, my perspective rather

than any actual facts, Sean, is that, you may see, you know, a kind of hard hitting

proposal to get rid of these, but in the end, it might turn into a reduction of

a certain percentage in these programs.

And, so I would say it's not at all impossible that they'll propose

eliminating them, just like those proposals have, have suggested

getting rid of Amtrak for almost 25 years now, and Amtrak still keeps

on chugging, sometimes, you know, you know, struggling in doing so.

So, but, again, I, I, I don't know if the Congress will have the, you know,

full initiative to really get rid of any of these programs altogether.

before we wrap up, Doug from Denver.

Thank you very much, I appreciate that.

One thing I wanted to focus on relative to advocacy with the new administration,

we had a meeting of the American Public Transportation Association Executive

Committee over the weekend, and we had presentations by our, advisors

from Errant Fox, and, included in that discussion was the concept of being able

to communicate with the new administration that we are addressing fare evasion.

One thing that we have heard from some of the legislators, members of

Congress, is why should we be giving you more money if you aren't even

collecting the money that you're due?

And I think all of us agreed that that is a topic that we need to spend

a little more time on and address.

And we had WMATA was there and talked about, the problems that they've

had, and they have a hardened system.

We have a, an open system at RTD in Denver, and so it's not quite the

same, but I just wanted to bring that up as a topic that has, gathered

some momentum from people who have a sense of what it's going to be

like with the new administration.

Thank you.

Thank you so much Doug for that insight on what's been one of

the top folks at APTA hearing right now.

And you know, I think that's a good, you know, beacon for us that that's an issue

that we'll want to be prepared to discuss.

you know, and it's such a, an issue that, you know, agencies have different

approaches to from fare free, and then also the challenges of maintaining

and enforcing those fare collections.

But it's absolutely, urgent that we take a look at and be prepared.

to have a reasonable discussion on the topic.

And Doug, while I see you on camera there, congratulations on

RTD's success on election day.

It was great news.

I've been continuing to build on the momentum you all have going there.

And, Charmaine, I see,

and before we go to the next question, I'll just jump in there and say,

Doug, I hear you, and I'll just say, as someone who took advantage last summer

of the fare free rides that you did in the summer to promote your ridership,

Colorado being one of my favorite states to visit, I would say that there's

an untapped message there about the marketing and tourism potential that such

things do, because it made it very easy.

For the first time, I took my in laws after trying to get them to go with us for

years, and it made everything so seamless, and, and, you know, that is a golden

tourism opportunity, and, and we're, we're coming to your state and spending our

discretionary dollars, so for every, for every naysayer out there who's an elected

official talking about where's the skin in the game, The skin in the game is me

coming to a town for four or five days and spending my discretionary dollars.

So, you know, there's always a way to kind of attack that,

that, kind of message, but, yes.

And when we had something similar happen when we went fare free with

our streetcar, years ago, but it absolutely skyrocketed ridership.

And when you have numbers and results like that, it makes it really hard to

argue with the, the sense in doing it.

I mean, you know, before that, we only took cash on those street cars and who

carries cash and, you know, this century.

So it was just a really good thing for us to do.

And I think the backside of that is keeping, keeping reminding people

of those success stories of what can happen when you take a chance like that.

But okay, we'll go to Charmaine for her question.

So I have a question about some of the grant programs

that are appropriated till 2026.

Are most of those likely going to drop off next year, or do you think they'll still

be, there's a chance we'll still have it, but amount would probably be reduced?

I think, you know, if you're talking about, you know, certainly the

formula programs 5307, 5310, and 5311, for urban, specialized, and rural, I feel very

strongly that those, those programs will, be close to where we expect them to be at.

Of course, there's a chance, That there might be a government wide, you know,

we want to reduce spending by this amount across all federal programs.

I would say that'd be the most likely scenario for those programs, Charmaine.

But anything can happen, of course.

It's a, you know, brand new government that, you know, at least perceives

itself as having a pretty strong mandate to do a lot of work, so.

We'll have to see, you know, where, where things, you know, end up, but my

instinct is those programs are going to be fairly comfortable, but anything

that has more of a discretionary, competitive elements, we talked about

,the capital investment programs.

Some other ones that I didn't mention earlier are the RAISE grants.

Yes.

And, oh, there's another big all capital letters funding program.

There's RCE2.

Yeah.

You know, those programs.

I think you could have a potential, for new, new grant awards to be really reduced

or changed in focus from, you know, mostly more so transit to more so highways.

That is something that could definitely play out in those very specialized

programs, one of which used to be called, like, TIGER and, you know, kind

of the evolution of those programs.

Yeah, I think those big, discretionary competitive programs, could be subject.

I'm not sure that there's much of a risk is if you've already

received an award, That they would go back on that commitment.

I think that's generally been considered bad faith by the government to award

projects on a multi year, full funding, a grant agreement, and then for those to be

rescinded, once they're kind of in play.

again, that's not something that I have a ton of expertise or familiarity on, but

I would say if you've already received a RAISE grant or something like that, That,

the government will probably pay that out.

The levels that are available for future iterations on that,

could be, could be concerning.

Thank you.

Did that answer your question, Charmaine?

Yes, yes.

I was leaning more towards the discretionary grants curiosity.

Yeah, so, you know, I think anything that has a, always has

a big acronym title is something that you might want to be following closely.

And then, I see Jose is asking about, clawbacks of any unused COVID era funding?

I would say yes.

If you still have COVID era funding, that those would be prime candidates for

rescission of funds that are unobligated.

So yeah, I would be concerned about those.

Hopefully that you're not sitting on too many of those dollars left,

but yeah, Jose, I'd agree with that.

There is some concern in that area.

So thank, thanks for that question.

Anyone else before we, wrap things up here today?

And, again, please feel free to reach out to myself, and any of the SWATA staff,

along with our Board of Directors, or Becca in a role as a Legislative Committee

Chair, and that there's, questions, concerns you have about things going

on in Washington that you'd really like us to be paying attention to.

You, you know, If you heard about a potential, you know, challenge to one of

our programs, let us know so that we can, A, focus our attention, and B, get your

input on how to respond to those things.

So, Becca, any final thoughts here?

I think I would just lean in hard to the message, the true

message that, transit is non partisan.

Transit is affecting people from all sides and everything in

between on the political spectrum.

And I think it's also important to remember when you're pursuing

grants and talking with your federal delegation that they want

to make your state look good too.

You know, and, and they, they have a point of pride about making sure that

your state gets the things that they need.

They should get.

So, keep that in mind because, you know, Rock Region Metro is in

the Little Rock urbanized area.

Little Rock is a blue dot and a red state, in, speaking in political

terms, and we get along great with our delegation because we're all

Arkansans at the end of the day.

And we want what's best for our voting constituents, and

the ones who don't vote, too.

We want what's best for everyone who lives here.

And so, your federal delegation is still beholden to votes,

and anything can happen.

You know, Arkansas used to be a blue state, and it could be

a blue state again someday.

So it's in everybody's best interest to make sure that they're taking care of

constituents, taking care of our veterans, our senior citizens, our students,

people who need to get to jobs, that is just critical for, for having a healthy

state that runs well, and I think that the federal government and your federal

delegation is quite aware of that.

So, so lean into those messages.

you know, they, you might be surprised at, at how much your delegation will

help you out because, it's also true and it's also a cliche, but it's true.

It's a cliche because it's true.

That all politics is local, and in a small state like Arkansas, we're very lucky and

fortunate to know all of our delegation pretty intimately because of that, but you

could have just as good of a relationship, even if you're from a bigger state,

by putting in those time investments, like I said, look for easy wins, try to

invite your team out to different things that you're doing, and And even if you

don't get the top brass there, you'll get some friends in the administration,

which is, which is what it's all about.

So thanks for joining us again today.

This was a good way to kind of prep and get our mindset ready for the New Year.

Yeah.

Thanks, Becca.

Appreciate you joining us.

And.

For everybody, just, yeah, two points of optimism, you know, no

matter where you stand politically.

A, we have a bill that's in place for two more years, and B, transit impacts

stuff that you're already doing.

So, no matter what that elected official's priorities are, we're working on that.

We are serving those people, whether they're veterans or businesses

or the environment or schools.

Whatever you care most about, transit has a role in making

that better in your community.

So, thank you.

Two really positives, for you to kind of, no matter where you stand,

we have those things going forward.

So, thanks again for joining us here today with SWTA and, we

hope to see you soon in Tucson.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Transit

Unplugged and thank you to Rich Sampson, Becca Green and everyone

at SWTA for sharing the recording of their legislative update with us.

So we could share it with all of you.

Now coming up next week, we have an episode that I think absolutely typifies

how public transit and especially paratransit makes a huge difference in

the lives of people in your community.

We have Eileen Collins Turvey talking about the things she's doing in

Portland that will truly blow your mind.

Like giving paratransit customers Instacart subscriptions.

So they can have groceries come to them.

Them.

Instead of having to go and spend time in the grocery store shopping themselves

and believe it or not, it saves a ton.

Ton of money.

Really need to listen to this and.

And.

Have a pad of paper ready?

Because you're going to want to take notes.

Transit unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo.

So.

At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people.

And at Transit Unplugged, we're passionate about telling those stories.

So until next week, ride safe and ride happy.