We're back. It's part 10 of 11 in the series 2026 the cosmic context on the Maya Games. This episode is really special. This episode is really long, as you likely noticed before you pressed play. How brave of you to have done that and to embark on this journey with us. The final egress of Uranus out of Taurus and into Gemini, which takes place this year on April 25, 2026, is one of the most major threads in the tapestry of cosmic unfolding this year, and it's fitting that a person whose impact was crucial in the development of this little project that is shortly coming to a close is the conversational mirror with whom I unpack and revel in the possibility of this transit. I'm going to share a few things with you about Lex and about the experience of having this conversation, but before I take you on this bonkers magic carpet ride through the trans Saturnian qualities of human consciousness that this episode is, I have just a couple of more Saturnian focused things to mention. One is that if you're listening in real time, which most of you tend to do from what I can tell, reminder that Ascendant assembly starts this weekend, Saturday March 7th for air and earth risings and Saturday, March 14th next weekend for Water and Fire Risings, Would love for you to come meet me face to face with my co host Amalia and other folks who are in this matrix of Orbit Field. Listeners, experimenters, consciousness havers who are in many cases also tuning into these distillations. And yeah, join us to discover in community in more detail and with more clarity how this stuff is practically unfolding in your own life and psyche. And if you're listening to this later on, if you missed March 7 or even March 14, you can still catch the recordings on the Orbit Field Patreon for your Elemental Rising sign group. As long as you're inside of the Orbit field. And heads up that we meet again in June, September and December of 2026. So we will be gathering in this way to refer to the distillations of this cosmic curriculum from throughout the series all year, and I'd love to see you there. You can join from either of my Patreon tiers, the solarium, which is $15 a month, or the altar which is 55amonth. The Solarium is the mostly parasocial tier, although Ascendant Assemblies is the one little non parasocial window where I actually work with you. We look at your astrology and you have a little bit less of a parasocial access point. To me, the alter is my bridging the parasocial gap tier where I actually get to know you and you have access to even more intimate ongoing spaces on the Internet. I also have a $5 a month gesture of reciprocity tier where there's no exchange but you can just for as long as you'd like, one to infinity months, throw me five bucks to support the work. And aside from being on the Patreon, if you'd like to resource more projects like this one, maybe you heard me talk about this in the intro to the last episode on the Nodes I say a little bit more there about what I'm experimenting with in what I'm about to share with you. But to keep it brief this time around I will just say you can go to Kelseyroseetort.com ConstellationMedia and make a contribution, a one time contribution to a project that I have gestating within that I think is coming soon, but could use a little more communal support to create the conditions that will allow for it to emerge with as much clarity and integrity and intentionality as possible. Other non financial ways to resource me and these collaborative projects that are wanting to burst through me include any way that you can kind of reach out and touch me and let me know that you're here, let me know that you're receiving, let me know that I am felt. You can do that by leaving ratings and reviews wherever you're listening to the podcast comments. If you're listening on Spotify, find ways to help me know how these offerings touch you. I also have a free folder on the Patreon for this Maya Games podcast series where I have a post that you can just leave comments on and be a part of a discussion on the episodes. And I'm going to add a new post there. There's way towards the end of this episode Lex and I talk about the horseshoe theory in politics and I mention something that feels kind of similar, which is the channels in the human design body graph that are associated with capitalism and socialism and how they're a mirror to one another. And I couldn't think of all the details when we were in conversation, but I grabbed the I found the image I was referencing and so I will make a post on the Patreon in the free folder. So anybody who wants to see visually what I'm talking about there and see some of the details that will be available in I'll link it in the show notes too. The Last Saturnian thing Funny to call this Saturnian, but in comparison to where we're going it is the last Saturnian thing I will reference is that as of now I still have my 2027101 workshop streamable for free in the free folder in the free collection on my Patreon. I probably will put it back behind the solarium paywall. So $15 shortly after this series ends. So get in on that now if you'd like. Jessa and I lowered our PR on the six part really in depth course called 2027. The breakdown where we get into all the mechanics of the locks and keys and deep dive two to three hour conversations on each of the key changes, specifically each of the eight key changes. And yeah, I mentioned that here. I think I haven't mentioned that in all of the intros lately, but Lex and I really are weaving together lots of systems and we bring in 2027 stuff quite a bit in passing. So just one more reminder that if that's not a framework that you work with but you'd like to understand more, there is the presently free resource of the 2027101 workshop and then for $85, a extremely lengthy deep dive that Jessa and I put a lot of care and love and time into. So those exist, reminding you that those exist. And now beyond Saturn to Uranus this conversation with Lex is so multifaceted and so extremely meta. There's a lot of times throughout where we notice aloud that we are talking about Uranus in Gemini without talking about Uranus in Gemini. And when I listen back, there's even more moments that we didn't notice it or we didn't say anything out loud, but we were absolutely being divinely guided by Uranian revelations of the Gemini brand. And I imagine that there's many more invocations of Uranus in Gemini that carried us that I still haven't realized consciously. Maybe you'll catch some of them. Both Lex and I are extremely Geminian, so this tracks. We both have Mars and Jupiter in Gemini, and as we discuss at some point early ish on in the episode, we are very nearly astrological doppelgangers. We are born five days apart from each other and even the things that we have differently in our designs and in our astrology, there's still quite a lot of overlap and resonance synastry, you might say, fractal, you might say, between even our distinctions. So yeah, there's this extra meta element of the Gemini twin conditions within. It's wild. We talk about our nearly identical natal astrology and design within in detail. So I will hold off on naming all of that for now, but I do want to talk about this aspect of the conversation for a moment. This aspect of our own Geminian almost doppelganger ness, because it was 1000% influencing where this conversation went and how it got there. And even the quality of our own relating and our own mental play and mental mirroring and fracturing with one another, the entire like, all of that is extremely representative of what we do at some points consciously Name feels like Uranus in Gemini. So the whole convo feels so Uranus in Gemini. This convo is like the closest thing to that exists to a podcast conversation between me and myself. It's like obviously not that. And I'm glad it's not that because Lex brings so much nuance and consideration and context that could not have come from my awareness, but the way that we're like inside each other's minds almost, and the space that we give each other to take up with our powerful revelatory loose threads that aren't actually loose, but present loose, but are in fact deeply connected and intertwined. The almost doppled gangerness of our minds is psychedelic. There's like this two way manifestor impact with a two way closed aura protection so that we, yeah, we each feel so comfortable to just take up the space and also kind of like retract into our own separateness to kind of like check the records. And so it's like a take up space, both outward and also take up space, as in remove ourselves and take up the space to come back into our own orientation. And the way that our perspectives and minds have these distinct tweaks, but seem to be like telepathically connected through their immense similarities. All of this allowed for so much receptive revelation to break in. And it's just so Geminian and so Uranian. It's how we ended up on Zoom together for over four hours without feeling distracted or depleted. It's how we got to places of big resonance and big breakthrough that felt both ancient and new. And I'm gonna leave you with a quote in a moment. It's not really a quote, it's a whole paragraph from something that Lex shared with me this morning. But before that, I forgot I wanted to mention this. So it's not. This is a little bit of a break in the flow of the arc of the intro, which I feel like for once was actually feeling kind of fluid and linear. But I must interrupt it with this update. Somewhere in the convo, Lex and I talk about how we both use ChatGPT, and I'm kind of in defense of ChatGPT in that moment, or at least like neutralizing, bringing a little heresy around, neutralizing it as a tool. And the sentiments that I share there, I stand behind. I kind of Talk about how ChatGPT is a tool and the more important things to focus on are the power dynamics behind that tool rather than demonizing the tool itself. So who owns it, what are their intentions, et cetera, et cetera. I stand behind that sentiment. And since Lex and I recorded this convo, there have been new events unfolding in the AI landscape, which I won't get too into the details about, but I will say that the intention behind the folks who run ChatGPT, I think OpenAI sorry, I don't know. All the details of this has become more clear and I became aware of an alternative to ChatGPT where at least at this point in time, the intent behind Claude, an alternative to ChatGPT, seems like one that I feel even more at ease with utilizing, feel even more neutral about utilizing. And I'm just in the beginning stages of exploring Claude. But I do want to say, because I kind of make a point at the end of this and that point has now, yeah, the underlying point, like I said, still stands, but the details of it have changed as reality has unfolded. At least as my reality has unfolded, I've been given some new information and some new opportunities. So yeah, in the two weeks since we recorded this, I have downloaded Clawed, and I'm in the process of shifting over to that as the AI tool that I occasionally will utilize. So just wanted to offer that because I think, yeah, I bring a perspective of nuance and neutrality to the AI convo that I feel like it feels important for me to share. And also my circumstances have changes changed pretty significantly since I brought that point. So I just want to offer that for anybody who's like not anti AI, wants to use it a bit, but also wants to use it with consideration and care. I wanted to offer that additional detail from my own perspective in life. Okay, I'm going on and on. Back to a little aperitif for you. Ahead of diving into the rest of this episode, I'm going to read something that Lex sent me this morning that felt relevant to their our experience. Experience of having this conversation and then our experience of integrating it and reflecting about it with one another. Here we go, getting extremely meta again. This is from a substack that Lex follows called the Complexity Edge by Lindsay Macareth. I will link the article in the show Notes. The article is called you are depressed because you've been paying a tax nobody else can. And while that title doesn't necessarily hit the point I'm wanting to underline here in sharing this excerpt, it does feel connected to why it felt so light, spacious and freeing to have this conversation with Lex. And it might give you a little bit of insight into what you're about to be a part of. The subtitle of the article is on being received by everyone and known by almost no one and what it looks like to finally stop compressing your complexity. Lindsay Mackereth wrote the thought that branches and spirals and connects three disciplines in a half remembered conversation. The map that exists fully dimensionally, simultaneously in your head. The way it has to survive the long lossy journey into language before it can reach another human being, and the way something essential almost always gets left behind in the crossing. That's the compression. And every time it happens you pay a tax. Not metaphorically, actually in real cognitive and emotional currency that comes directly out of you. Here's what gets compressed when you translate a full resolution thought into something receivable. The connections that don't survive. The linearization. The nuance that gets flattened because you can feel the listener's attention starting to wander and you need to land the plane faster. The branches you preemptively cut because you've already watched eyes glaze at that level of complexity enough times to know which threads to quietly drop before you even begin. The parts of the map that require simultaneous comprehension to make sense. Which is exactly the kind of comprehension that linear conversation actively works against. And underneath all of that, the version of you that knew the full thing, watching a diminished version of it leave your mouth anyway, knowing what made it through, knowing what didn't. Per Lindsay's explanation here, talking to Lex felt like a tax free zone, a compression free zone. Hence the spaciousness of this three plus hour conversation. Lex thought this sentiment might be a suitable aperitif to support listeners digestion of the episode. And I agree. So I will leave you with these words from Lex that are a reflection on what it felt like to be inside of the conversation with me and and an invitation for you as a listener to join us in that quality of receptivity. These are Lexa's words. Being able to actually lean into the nonlinear downloads and thought complexities and matrices was freeing Uranus. Listening is an invitation to relax into that rather than get caught up in the where is this going? Linear orientation. All right, welcome back. Welcome Lex, hello. So Lex and I have already been chatting for about 43 minutes and we've decided to graciously welcome the rest of you into the conversation at this point. Okay, I'm here with Lex Perkins and we're going to talk about Uranus today and where should we go first? I'm like eager to talk about the role that you've played in. Let's just go there first, I guess.

Okay.

The role that you played in. In this podcast series. Should I tell it from my vantage point first? Yeah. Okay. So Lex is in the alter tier on Patreon and at one of the. I think it was a full moon call. Full moon in Cancer when the sun was in Capricorn. Cause it was really early in the year. Yeah, there was like a whole conversation about all sorts of things. And then like rounding the corner towards the end of the call, Lex comes in with a reflection on. What I remember is you came in with a reflection on. You'd been like, really? Oh, we had been Talking about like 9 and 10 of Swords energy or you brought that in or something and there was a reference made to kind of being in like gloom and doom ish kind of inundated state from taking in so much content about the astrology of the year. Just like year ahead stuff via various modalities. And yeah, I'm excited to hear you tell about it because the visceral memory I have of it is that it like sent me off on a trajectory that ended up here. We talked about whatever you were bringing up for your yourself. But the lasting impression for me, the unexpected impact was I was like, wow, I really haven't like, I don't know what the astrologers are saying about this year because I haven't been listening very closely to the exclusively astro voices in a while and I haven't had much of a relationship with forecasting in a while. And so I think I said on the call something like, oh, maybe I will do something forecasti cause I hadn't even thought of it before then where like already days into January at this point. And then a couple people I remember specifically, Ashley was like, I yes, please, I need to hear your take. And then obviously I couldn't just move from that moment, emotional manifester, et cetera, et cetera. But that, that impulse, that directive stayed with me and within a couple or a few weeks I was reaching out to folks being like, do you want to do this crazy ass project with me? And yeah, Lex was on my mind the whole time as someone to invite to ch. Chat in one of the parts. And yeah, maybe I'll pause there for a second, but I might want to also talk about how I ended up at Uranus specifically for you. But yeah, go. What was happening on the other side of both of our closed auras? What did you see?

Yeah, I think that I don't remember exactly what catalyzed. I do think it had something to do with the nine of Swords. Just the sort of. Yeah, I think it was like the first week of the year and I had been spending some time listening to a lot of the like, year ahead forecasts in late December. And I was like, things have just been really kind of like. I think I used the word like doomy or like doom and gloom kind of. And I think that sort of. That's an overgeneralization. But like, I think that there's been a lot of. Of conversation. You know, in 2025, there were so many of the planets that changed for the first time. And then they kind of are like, 2026 is like the full send on the other side for multiple years. So it was just. I think it kind of came up because I think I was feeling a lot of like, honestly, sort of the like, collective anxiety around, you know, the ongoing collapse of all the systems and like, what is next? What is gonna be next? What is this gonna continue to look like? And I think specifically, like, Uranus was like, you know, Civil war, et cetera. Lots of words, lots of buzzwords about what we can kind of already see happening, but also kind of in looking at cycles of the past. And it just felt like it was a lot of like, noise. I don't know. I'm sort of getting into the fact that I have been able as a part of the series to now listen to the whole series prior to this episode. So I feel like I can, like, I'm like, very glad that it catalyzed this out within you, out of you. Because I think this, what you have produced with this feels very different than what I had been like. It is in contrast to what I feel like I have been hearing.

Yeah. You know, that feels great to hear. Thank you.

You did it. There's one more left, but you did it. Almost.

Yeah. You know what, it's funny. I, like, am losing steam also.

Like, I. I was after like episode three, I was like, how. Yeah, as another manifester, like, bro.

Yeah. Well, I think, like, one of the ways I'm looking at this is because the conversations are not so rooted in linear time. I mean, obviously they Are to a point. And also they're really not. We're really distilling down to like Vince brought up in the Mercury episode, the kind of obsession with the moment in time for a transit. You and I are recording on the day after the Saturn Neptune conjunction. And like a very exclusively mental approach to that conjunction is like, oh, it happened. And what it was just former Prince Andrew's arrest. That's it. You know what I mean? Or whatever. My daily, like, no, it was happening. It's been happening for all of eternity. All of eternity has led to that conjunction of yesterday. And that conjunction yesterday is a part of forever. So, yeah, off we go.

It's just. That's also just so Uranus. Because I was also in thinking a lot about Uranus for the last month, just the like, everything, like, nothing is new. Like, everything is already the like fully nonlinear downloading from collective energies. Not the current unfolding, but also that the current unfolding is connected to everything that has happened before in a different way. But things are just like emerging, but also sort of the, like, you know, now it's downloaded like strike of lightning.

Yes.

And then like, bye. So very much in the vein of Uranus to describe.

Yes, for sure.

The whole thing that way.

You know, it's funny, I've never made a connection between like, Uranus necessarily and Manifestor Impact, but there's something there for me in this moment.

Okay.

Where I was going, where I thought I was going, where I was intending to go is like, in many ways this is like a complete project, right? Like start to finish. And so of course we're getting near finish and the Manifestor has lost some stuff, steam. So actually I'm excited that my last two convos are another Manifestor, because we'll bring some steam. And then I'm closing it with Amalia, who. One of the discoveries Amalia and I made together in working together on collaboratory was that, I mean, I know I'm not a finisher, but Amalia really is a finisher. So I was like, yeah, Amalia, come caboose me. Because I'm a finisher.

Gotta have those finishers around. Honestly, truly.

And in many ways it is that. But also I feel like this whole series is an initiation as well, and that it will serve as a resource throughout at least the rest of 2026, if not far beyond. Because. Yeah, because of the nature of time unfolding. And some of the episodes are very specific to this year, like the Mercury one and maybe the Venus one will be that way and the Mars One, not even really because we focused so much on Mars taking rulership of these two planets, Saturn and Neptune that will be in Aries for a while. So anyways, all of this to say in some ways I feel the regular patterns of manifest or non sacral. I started it, it's hard to finish it. And in other ways the whole thing is an initiation. And so in that way it also feels very correct and good that I think series has the potential at least to have long, long term ripples even after I close it out and this initiation urge phase is over which Uranus.

Which speaking of Uranus.

Yeah, yeah. So thanks Lex for coming in hot with that reflection early in the year and anybody who has been resourced by this conversation series, you have not one, but two manifestors to thank for its existence. Wow.

My one step removed recognition. I really appreciate. I fully was not expecting it and I've loved the shout outs and I love that this is what came out of it. I truly feel like this is like a weird like, you know, it is so like the manifester lesson. So being like what, like I say something. It's the. It's also the sort of like I do sometimes actually visualize it as like a ripple or like the sound wave, you know what I mean? Sometimes I feel like I'm just like whispering or reflecting and then it's like this like shout in someone else's system which can sometimes have different effects, but in this case sort of. I love when it catalyzes something and to your point, it's like just that little catalyst and then it moves within you and then being fully initiated from you as a manifester. So it's not. But to think about those source points is really kind, I think, and expansive of you.

It's very like this new nodal axis that's coming in this year. South node in Leo, Aquarius. Like ecosystem consciousness, you know. Yeah, yeah. The transit that we're gonna focus on most today is in significant aspect to the nodes, both settings of nodes that we have this year. So yeah, I don't know if I wanna necessarily get into that. I've talked about it a lot in this series. It feels very relevant all year, this south node in Leo needing to purge a little bit of the way that we emphasize the contributions of a soul or center, like of a soul individual. But not to entirely extinguish them, but to honor them, to recognize them within the parameters of this ecosystem. But there's something to. Yeah, maybe I don't want to go there right now. But I just wanted to highlight like my ability to see, to like be conscious of and present with the way that your reflection in that moment, like hit me and changed me and shifted my orientation and my ability to name that, recognize that without clinging to it or putting meaning onto it. And then your ability to see that same impact and to all of that kind of ability to honor one's individual contributions. But in this Aquarian sort of like, ah, how nice the ecosystem spins on way that just feels so core to this moment in time and the energy of this year. So I just wanted to take the moment to acknowledge our ability to see that the duality of individual specialness, recognition and how it contributes to the whole and it not actually being that big of a deal, but also needing to be acknowledged.

You know, I feel like Aquarius like the butterfly effect, like, I feel like the butterfly is getting the little shout out for like the wing flapping, you know what I mean? But it's like it is all connected. That's the whole point. You know, like, there is this ecosystem that's moving. And when you were in the nodal conversation about Leo Aquarius and not to like go again. I think there are other places we need to go maybe first. But I did want to say, I think that there's an interesting dynamic in that with Uranus in Gemini being also Uranus, in terms of what is the nature of the thing that shocks you into being awake. You talked a lot about sort of the awake versus not awake being something to not, you know, be. It's not that firm, but sort of this sense of shock in terms of Uranus having that impact. And I was thinking about in the transition from Taurus to Gemini, like the way that that shock shows up is different. And I think I only speak to that right now in terms of sort of the like again, that kind of like electric jolt to the grid. So the ecosystem being impacted by this other thing or like I feel like it's all very interconnected in terms of how you will continue to be able to give your shout out to the butterfly that is like indirectly impacting, like basically acknowledging the grid and being able to lean into that. That Leo acknowledgement.

Yeah.

Is like coming from. Yeah.

So much.

That's just. There's so much.

Yeah.

Okay. Anyway.

No, it's so good. It's so good. This is gonna be such an epic combo. Yeah, I'm thinking about pin in that. I'm thinking about like the 3740 fading and like, what. What role does acknowledgement, you Know and ego recognition have. In a sleeping Phoenix penetration setting. It's very different. But let's. Okay, let's let that be our segue

into speaking of the 3740 that we both have. Yes.

It works as a segue on multiple levels. Our segue into introducing you. Why don't you just speak? Yeah, whatever. About your design and astrology. I'm burying the lead a little bit, but we'll go.

Okay.

We'll honor you as an individual. Before we talk about.

Before you get to the grid.

Yeah.

We're not even in those nodes yet. We're still in our Pisces. So first of all, I have north node in Pisces, south node and Virgo, which is the actual still axis that we're in. So yeah, I am an Aries sun, Libra rising, Libra moon. We have in the broader. So we were born a week apart. And so our charts in terms of the outers are pretty similar.

Our charts in terms of everything except. Everything except Mercury, Moon Ascendant. Yeah.

Yes. So I have Mercury in Pisces, so strap in every everyone. And then Mars, Jupiter conjunct in Gemini Square. The nodes in Pisces in Virgo also skip step. That came up earlier in the series. But I have done some work with evolutionary astrology, so thought a lot about that. And then Saturn, Neptune, Uranus are all in Capricorn together relatively close to one another. And then related to this conversation, Uranus is basically conjunct my ic. It's separate by one degree. So I do identify as a pretty Uranian person in some respects. And then kind of related then to human design. I'm a 6:2 emotional manifestor and I do have my channels. Cause I felt like they were also maybe relevant if it is okay to share those too. Of course. So I have. Well, also I'm left angle, cross of healing. And then I have channel of brain wave, channel of awakening, channel perfected form, channel of inspiration, channel of initiation and channel of community. And that all. And just within a Uranian context felt like some of those. I was like, oh, okay. Yeah.

Awakening, initiation.

Yes. And like why I love inspiration to listen to you, why I love that your podcasts. It's like all of these things are very. I feel like the brain wave, awakening, inspiration, initiation, it's just like that cycling in itself over and over. Yeah. Did I miss anything?

I feel like sometimes listeners are pretty into rave psychology.

Oh.

So personal view, desire, motivation. Right. Personal view, which is the inverse of mine, which. Yeah, I was giggling as you're introducing your stuff because I feel like we're keeping a secret. But you said it, which is that we have crazily similar designs and charts. And even the ways that they're different are so like there's still some kind of significant correlation. I didn't track or remember until you spoke it just now that you're not only a Libra ascendant, but also a Libra moon. And so you know, you were born five days before me, not even a week, five days before me. And the only planet besides the moon that shifted at that time was Mercury. I have mercury at 2 degrees Aries. So five days prior it was in the last decade of Pisces, where Lex has it. But then also like such a. I don't know, synchronicity is maybe not a. I mean, whatever synchronicity is that your ascendant is like a degree and a half away from exact sextile to mine. Yours is at almost 4 degrees Libra. Mine's at 5 sag. And then your moon is at 20 and mine's at 23 sag. So put the Mercury aside. That's the significant shift. But then they're also exactly sextile each other. You have an early ascendant in Libra, a late moon in Libra. I have an early ascendant in Sag, a late moon in Sag, and then we share the second line body, which is like even that feels so coincidental because the second line in my design is a transitional profile. So it was only. I was. It was only 5:2 data for like 45 minutes of that day. So you're like the 6. The 6 and then I'm the 5. But then the fact that we share the 2 is very specific. Yeah. So there's just a lot. There's a lot. And I've had one other person born the week that we were born. Her name is is Meg. Shout out Meg if you're listening. She's actually born the day after me. And I've known Meg for a few years now. We haven't chatted closely in a while, but we used to get together and just talk about. She's Libra Rising too. So the three of us need to get together at some point. But we used to get together and just talk about how the transits hit our charts. And it's just like. I'm like tripping out in this moment sitting with you, looking at your chart. And it's like it's my chart, except just slightly tweaked. It's so Interesting. And then from a human design perspective, I have all the same channels that Lex mentioned, plus the channel of judgment and the channel of provocation. So, yeah, it'll be such a cool case study for us and for anyone listening who knows our charts, like, what is it like when we have these six companion channels? And then I have. What do I. I don't even. And then, yeah, it's a compromise. Both of those channels that I have that you don't are a compromise because you have one of the gates of each. So, yeah, it's just so interesting and kind of trippy to engage in this way. It doesn't not feel Uranus in Gemini. E. And then. Yeah, the contextual piece that I want to add about all of this is that we have kind of a funny origin story, which is still very much in the making. Lex is the person in the series that I, on a this realm level, know the least. We're pretty new to each other, but every time Lex has spoken in one of their group calls, I've felt such a sense of familiarity. And at one point I thought that was because we had interacted meaningfully a couple of years ago, but apparently that's not true. Or I was living in a different timeline than Lex Possible. And now we're on this timeline where we never had met until recently. Something.

Yeah. So it was. It was already a little bit of the, you know, leap of faith to invite me to come and be in conversation with you, but it turned out to be even more than you thought it was because you actually truly did not know me at all. It was. And it's been very surreal for me. Well, it was just. It was funny because it, like. Yeah, like, so you have the. The altar tier. So I love the Patreon model. Just like, quick shout out to the altar as a thing. Right. And the ability to. It felt very much like the right way to kind of dial in to be able. There's an opportunity for engagement. There's a lot of opportunity for discussion in the discord that isn't specifically with you. It's kind of, again, the people that constellate around you or the people that are interested in being in community with each other. So it's like. But the opportunity to get on a live call at that tier level, at the full moon and quarter moon. Right. Was like. Yeah, I had just. I. I think because I think I initially, like, learned about you through other. When you were guesting on other podcasts that I listened to. Right. And then that was how I Found you and your voice. And there is this, like, I think you said this when we were voice noting a little bit in preparation for the call. Like this frequency of familiarity that is sort of like. It just is, right?

Yeah, it's like, it's like this is my frequency, my awareness just like tilted a little bit. Yes. Like, very similar and like the distinctions are clear. Like as I am getting to know you and hear from you more and see your chart and see your design, like those small distinctions, 6 to not 5 to personal and desire rather than mine. The Libra lens, like, they're very. They're extremely evident because they're the only distinctions. Like, there's so much like the source of. Yeah, I don't know if I would say the source, but yeah, there's just like so much similarity and familiarity and it. That's what I mean when I say it's trippy. It's like, oh, you're me. But not obviously. Obviously not. But also like, it's rare to have that much overlap and like distilled frequency and orientation with someone.

It. It is. And I feel like that's why it really. Like there's some. I don't know. There's something too that comes to mind about the Mars Jupiter, since we'll be talking about Gemini today and Uranus will be visiting those planets for us in this time. Yeah. There's something about the like, action, like the heat of the expansion, the expansiveness of the ideas the like play, but also the like, you know, like not competitive sport. What am I trying to say? Like, like something that's like sort of martial also in like, like your fifth line, the way it comes through the five line as heretical or as like a take. Right. Which like, resonates because. And we've talked a little bit about this before too. Right. It's like the sixth line is so like the embodied hot take already. Like, it's like, yes, like I.

It's not a hot take.

It's an integration.

It's a cool truth, not a hot take.

It is a cool truth, not a hot take. But I can like. But I like hear. But I'm not like phased by the hot take. Right. So it's like the, the amount of the like, like passion with which you deliver the Jupiterian insight and the way that that builds into 45 minutes of pre convo. There's something about that, that even though the Mercurys are different, although I sort of thought they would be the same based on when I had first heard you, you know, What I mean, but again, we're so close to the beginning and it's that Pisces Aries threshold. My Venus is right at zero. Aries, my son is at three. And then I also have sun on the descendant, which is a whole different conversation. But yeah, so I feel like there's a lot of alignment in the way that also just like the interest to explore things at this type of depth and from these different types of angles and like giving it the time for the exploration and being motivated by it and being able to follow those urges around it and like expressing that. I think that's the manifest like, like speaking it out so that other people are receiving the insights that like, I feel like a lot of what you say also feels like my internal, like my mind sounds a lot like what these podcasts are, if that makes sense. But it's like internal sometimes. Like it's just like it's just going on and on and on. And then I'm kind of like in listening to them and I. I don't know if other listeners feel this way, but it's like, like you, it's sort of getting to engage in that like, mental consideration. Volleyball, etc. It's like a volleying. Not specifically the sport, but like just the exchange of ideas is like so deeply nourishing to me. And then like to witness other people exchanging ideas is nourishing to me. So.

Wow, it's so okay. The Aries Gemini sextile that rules so much of our charts. And for you it being the seventh and the ninth, versus for me it being the fifth and seventh, and me being like, I need to talk and create with you. Fifth, seventh. And you're like having this seventh house experience, but you're centering it so much around the exchange of ideas in this ninth house Y thing. I don't know if other people can follow what we're talking about, but

the philosophy, the ninth house of it all, the travel, it does feel like I said, I sometimes listen to the podcast on my little literal same commute to work most days of the week. That's 30 minutes down one road in Chicago. But I'm traveling in my mind following the ideas of these exchanges. These exchanges are like, I am not, you know what I mean? I'm able to travel. Not actual 9th house travel, but to me and. Cause I have the Libra rising. All my short distance travel, all the themes are crossed, right? Cause it's gemini in the 9th, so it's sag things, but also Gemini things.

So anyway, have you Made the connection that I am a sag lighting up your third house.

House,

My sag moon in rising.

You're making it. You're making it right now. Yeah. The fact that I want to listen to your thoughts on my way to work, you're right. We landed all the way back.

Well, and also, I just want to say the fifth house piece for me, I listen to this podcast series and depending on my mood, the gradient of feeling, you know, a little bit like vulnerable and self conscious versus, like proud and excited, whatever. It's not even just that spectrum. There's a whole bunch of things, but the gradient is there. And in certain moods, I tune into my own podcast and I'm just like, yeah, you know, and that's like. That's like the fifth house, Exalted Aries son of. It is like, I love Hell yeah. In certain moods and certain conditions, I like, like, just have this uninhibited sense of joy and elation and connectivity with hearing. It's not the sound of my own voice necessarily, but like hearing the frequency of my own transmission. And so that's me, you know, like, that's me being in my exalted Aries fifth house Sun. Like these moments where I just, like, love getting to feel what I create. There's something so special about that that feels so intimate to me. And I make all this stuff for me, you know, like, of course, I don't exist in a vacuum, and I also have significant placements in the seventh house. So I love the experience of getting to feel the impact and feel some recognition and feel connected to people through what I've created. That's like a huge part of my life that I more and more am relaxing into. Just being a necessity of what it is for me to relate to exist as a star in the constellation. But it's interesting to hear you talk about it because I feel like, you know, we are not the same, obviously, but you probably feel as close to as anyone else who's not me could feel. A sense of, like, feeling the way that you operate, the way that you think, you know, inside of that. And even, like, there's another layer there, even to me being in your third house too, of that, like, familiarity, you know, like that sense of third house, like neighborhood, local, you've just always been there, sibling cousin kind of vibe.

And speaking of Gemini, the sort of twin doppelganger, there's sort of this thing of like, it's a different type of thing to hear the reverberations that come from hearing it is. It's sort of this. It is like more of a doppelganger effect. Like, it is not the same. It's a slight distortion. But it's like getting to hear the way that I think about things. The similar. Like, even just like, pathways of thought. Like, often when you will be like, I don't know if that made sense. Or like, I don't know if we're still following. And I'll be like, absolutely made sense. Absolutely following. Like, you know what I mean? Because I'm like. That's like the intuitive, like, pathway for me.

You're having a very similar thought trajectory.

Yes. Like, I can follow the road because my roads look similar. Yeah, but. But I think there's this way, though, that having that reflected back that is different than a Libra reflection. Right. The Gemini sort of. How am I kind of seeing this sort of variation of what is real for me in someone else? That's different than relating and understanding. We're talking about sort of this offshoot of. There is sort of a similarity. There are these similar overlays. That's different than the ability to stand, like, to sit with someone and reflect back and forth and begin to understand someone. That is different in a Libra relational way, which is also sort of a mirroring, but it feels different. There's just something about the twins and third house siblings. Like you were saying, there's something about that that we're gonna. It is related to Uranus in Gemini. This is a meta commentary about what will come in terms of revolutionizing communication.

Yeah, I mean, one.

Once you cross the bubble.

We're doing it in Gemini explicitly. It's over for y'.

All.

Like, that part of the conversation is gonna be wildly revelatory. And. Yeah, there are still things I wanna get to before that. One of them being. I wanna hear you speak a little bit about your own relationship to these two primary modalities for looking at reality. But before that, I want to say that, yeah, the, like, silliness, kind of weird psychic projection field Maya space that got us here does in part come from the familiarity of frequency of relating with you. It also came from. There was just like that impression that your share, like the impact that that had on the series unfolding. There was just like some. It wasn't mental exclusively. There was like some part of me that just was, like, keeping you around in my head, as this idea just stated. And I think there was a version of. Just like. You felt like part of it to the beginning because of the impact of your Initial reflection that at least my conscious understanding of is led me here. But also I just want to say, like, there is this sense of familiarity in how, like I haven't gotten to hear you speak as much as you've gotten to hear me speak, but I have gotten to hear you speak a bit in these alter calls that you've been present on. And that other like non alter little weird call that you were. Your perspective was so helpful for me. Like, there was so much impact there. I'm still integrating a lot of like little tweaks that you brought in that were really useful for me there. So I just want to say also, like, I. Yes, a little bit going out on a limb, inviting you, the person I know the least. But also like everything I've experienced of you so far, it's not just the familiarity and our frequency and orientation that feels. That feels really fun and comforting in a way. It's also like I've seen you show up with such integrity of you. You know, I feel the difference and I feel the integrity behind what you share. And I feel, yeah, like the impact, but the impact in a very distinctly you way. And that has translated to me from the first time we met, which I thought was the second time. I just want to say that as well. Like, it's not just our familiarity, you know, it's also you being your sixth line integrity coming through and me seeing the value of some of that impact every time you have in the more limited interactions I've had with you. They have still. Yeah, they have still shown me a lot of value and integrity. So I just wanted to say that as well.

I feel like this relates too to what we were talking about with sort of the parasocial third thing. Because I think there was a lot of consciousness coming in too of like. Like you are a fifth line. There's a lot of projection onto like who you are even. Even as someone who makes their voice very publicly available. It's like that's still not knowing you, right? Or like there's still a lot of things that can happen between that listening and an actual knowing or understanding. But there's sort of this like, dynamic that I think just to echo what you said. Absolutely. It's just like. But there is such authenticity and integrity in which you show up that like, that is it like, you know, like there is a lot of ways that it's it and then it's the same thing. Like, it's just like we are showing up authentically in a way that I think adds a Different dynamic to that.

That's like, why we can catch the resonance of familiarity and why we can catch the resonance of the distinctions is because we are, like, both committed to, practiced and resourced and skilled in. To the extent that we are and privileged with exalted Aries sons in, you know, like, just shining the truth, the authentic, Authentic truth of the moment. Yeah, totally. Okay. Because it's easy to make assumptions about your relationship with astrology and human design based on my own. I would love for you to dispel some of those assumptions for me and for listeners by just sharing a bit about how when you came into each of these systems, how you work with them. Yeah, whatever feels organic to share and relevant. Yeah.

So I have always loved my birthday, which is March 23rd. I have always loved the number 23. And so I had a lot of, like the birthday book when I was a kid. Like, it wasn't like I was totally separate from astrology, but I didn't really come into understanding or engagement with astrology until I think more like 2016, 2017, which I know is like a very sort of common timeline entry point. And in the birthday book, my birthday is the day of curiosity, which always really resonated, by the way. That's one step removed from astrology. But I feel like if I were to truly think about the through line, it doesn't just suddenly come forward in 2017 in terms of why. And I think I was really drawn to astrology. I also like, you know, like Myers Briggs and other ways that people are able to learn about.

Sorry, what? Myers Briggs?

Yes.

I was also obsessed with Myers Briggs pre astrology. And I just want to know if we are both E. You're like, wait,

you have to tell me your Myers Briggs right now before you continue with this.

Okay. Yeah. It's important. Wait, I have an idea. I said the E. Are you an E?

Yeah.

Okay, what's the next one?

N. Yep.

F. F, P. Oh, I was J.

Okay, well, channel judgment.

Sure. Okay. I'm so sorry to interrupt your flow.

It's okay.

I needed to know. It couldn't be exactly the same. It had to be.

It couldn't be. That's the difference. For all the Myers Briggs aficionados listening, you can now begin to discern the difference between us in yet another one. But speaking of, this is why I love this is because I. Okay. So I think also maybe it's the Libra Aries stuff. I don't know. I have always been. I understand that the way that I think about Things and see the world is different than how other people think about things and see the world. So I don't assume the sort of idea of, like, do unto others as you would like done unto you. And I'm sort of like, no, do unto others what they would want done unto them, which might be different than what I would want done unto me. So there's sort of this foundational fundamental curiosity, but also, like, genuine feeling like the. These systems reveal. They add so much depth and also, like, remove my. Not like a blind spot, but like, literally that I just don't know what it's like to be in everyone else's experience, right? So, like, it begins to, like, fill in these ways. And I have found that for people with different levels of resonance or dissonance with what comes out of these systems, it still prompts them to speak to something that they may have never actually spoken to, like, in that specificity. So it's like, what does it mean to have mercury in Pisces? How is that different than having mercury in Sag or mercury in Aries or mercury in Aquarius? Even if someone's like, wow, I really. I don't feel that I'm like, okay, well, what do you feel? You know what I mean? Or what do you think about this thing? And then it brings out something that helps me to understand what is true about other people or how they self identify. I just have always loved tools frames like this for that reason, I think I also deeply love, like, self discovery, and I feel like it's helped bring a lot of the, you know, we talk about, like, astrology or human design as like, languages and sort of like the fluency within these languages and like, you know, being able to engage with them in different ways. And so I think that's something that also allows me to articulate things about myself and also to like, ping, you know, catalytic revelations internally. So I, you know, I mean, I was like, following Chani. I saw Chani speak once at University of Chicago. It was really fun. But so I was always just sort of like, doing everybody's big three for a while, chatting about that. And then we're just here a decade later, and I'm at a farming conference in January, and we're all like, what's your chart? Pull out your chart. And it's been interesting to see how there are a lot more people in my circle now. This is more like work context colleagues. But everyone's like, oh, yes, I know something about my chart, or, oh, Yes, I have CoStar, which, whatever you can think whatever you want about CoStar, but it does have the little outline for people to be able to reference their chart in a basic way. And so I think there's this dynamic of. I just love the conversations that astrology prompts. So I have sort of self guided study. I did do an evolutionary astrology course with Sabrina Monarch, I did evolutionary astrology and then Diviner, which is like a year long container. And then I had my first human design reading when I was in Britain's container magician's table in 2023, which started on my birthday that year and in my little cohort group because everyone can bring any type of modality to that space. So it's just like to be in practice of presenting an offering and doing readings if you have like been gestating things. And one of the people in the group was human design and so she gave me my first human design reading and then I was like, what? I was like, what is this? And so then I sort of have been like cool, just weaving in and out of both of those things for a while now. And I think that's also very like I've like been in parts of containers and taken shorter courses. And like I think I mentioned to you Samar, who's the insoulman doula, was the 13th reader in that group and that was like really impactful and I love Samar's work and I've been able to work with them. And so there's just. Yeah, that's a very long answer. But yeah, and I feel like it's interesting the human design astrology to me, the way that human design was explained to me was informed by astrology, I Ching. All the different elements that go into. Yes, it is a separate third. It's the more than the sum of its parts. But it feels incredibly foundationally connected to astrology to me. So it's been interesting to hear some of the like, like astrology or human design or that there could even be a contention between them because I feel like they're so interrelated.

There's so much contention between them. Yeah, what I. Well, but that's like different conversation, right? Well that's like fifth line versus sixth line, you know, like I've had to face, I've had to hold a lot of people's projections onto either system. Like where I go, you know? Yeah, where for you it's like who? Fuck who? What the fuck are you? Who cares? Why are you. You know what I mean?

I'm like, this is all the same. Yeah, not the same, but it's like different layers of the same. It's like the. Like I was saying, like the prism. Like, the beam is shooting through the prism and then all this stuff is coming out and like, it's all fractal.

Mm. Yeah. I was also hearing like a Libra versus Sag filter distinction where I feel like my orientation to these systems, it's not. Not relational. Like, it's deeply relational. I have my. Both the ruler of my sun and Aries stellium and my chart ruler in the seventh and Gemini. So having these like, languages to understand relational context, it's like, huge for me too. But there is this SAG Moon and Rising filter that's like, I am looking for the truth, you know, like, that's ultimately what I'm after with this shit. And it's like I am. Like, I am looking for the truth. That is what I'm always doing. Truth seeking versus the way you brought in, like, it just sparks such interesting conversations and ideas in people. It's like that air. Like, it's not. It's about impact and action reaction on the intellectual social. Airplane, right? Coming through your Libra ascendant and Libra Moon versus for me, it's like, we will get to the truth. So just more noticing.

Yeah, Yeah. I think it is definitely a relational tool. And actually when you were saying that, it made me think of the fact that actually my. My partner, we sort of started there was definitely like a. Let's look at our charts as sort of like a flirty thing. And then also it was like, deeply impactful for him because as a cancer sun, he was like, I never really identified as a cancer sun, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, that's just one piece of your chart. And then it was like, oh, I'm a Leo rising. Oh, I'm a Scorpio Moon. And it was like, unlocked, unlocked. And then it just catalyzed all this personal transformation for him just from knowing it. So, like, I've seen this happen over and over again too, where, like, people get into these other layers of their chart. Human design equally has been like, so fascinating. I was at a party a couple weeks ago. Were we reading human design charts at like 2am after everyone had left? Yes, we were. You know, like, it's just like people are, I think, in. And I don't know if it's like age, stage, the world, whatever, but people want, want to. I find myself in orbit with a lot of people who are just like, looking to continue to examine the different elements of themselves. Like. Right. Like, they want to be able to speak to it. They want to uncover things. They want to be challenged. Like, maybe they thought they were one way and then they're thinking about it and they're like, am I really that way? Oh, am I working on that thing? Oh, that is that thing. You know, so it's like, I just think there's something people are like, really hungry for personal transformation.

You know what this feels like, Uranus? Like individuation, authenticity, like breaking through the shackles of stagnant prior understandings that are limiting. Not too much of a stretch to go there from here.

No. I had the breaking through, the disruption, the breaking up of the limiting beliefs. I think is gonna be, I hope for Uranus in Gemini. Cause it's gonna be like the realm of thought versus the innovation in thought rather than through Taurus body. So I'm like, what could that mean? I think hopefully the freedom from limiting beliefs, like doing all that different work foundationally that people have been doing in Uranus and Taurus and now getting to do that in a Gemini lends a Gemini application. I think. Think could be really powerful for like, taking it to the next level.

Yeah. Yeah. I have to pee already. Which is not really all ready because we've been on Zoom together for an hour and a half. So bio break. And then when we get back, I think let's just talk about how we think about Uranus in general.

Yeah.

Cool. Okay. See you in a minute.

Okay.

Okay, we're back. And to be fully moon in the first house. And not only peace, I also refilled my cold brew and my water. Cause clearly this is gonna be awesome. Yeah. So I'd love to gently steer us towards how do we calibrate to Uranus. And I hear you talking about evolutionary astrology. Was the main astrological background you offered. And for whatever reason it made me want to share, I was just like, I'm so deep in it now. And my own orientation to stuff is very second line. Y. That it like, early on, I feel like I used to always want to specify where I was coming from. And I like, still have that stuff on my website and stuff, but it just. It feels more in the background now. I'm like, very comfortable just sharing. Like, this is the Kelsey synthesis and that is resourced from all these different places. But ultimately it's my synthesis, you know, which feels very second line. But all of that to say I was wanting to name that my background is actually like, my educational background is very Both Hellenistic and modern. And what I was laughing about just now is that it's kind of interesting. Cause I've thought about it more recently in the human design realm because people can get very black and white about human design and be like, it's either source based and dogmatic, or it's like innovative and poppy. And I always, I think like as a fifth line people position me in one or the other when I actually feel very both. Like, I'm like, I fucking love ra. I'm like always defending ra. I think that most of the complaints that people have against RA are projections. Like, I just do feel that way. And also like, I talk about human design in ways I like. I don't think RA is obviously the sole authority on it. I talk about it in ways that he would probably hate. And it's interesting because there are people who are like source heads is what I call them, who have demonized me for being pop hd. And then I imagine on the other side that there are people who think that I'm probably source dogmatic. And so I've thought about that and watched that a lot. And now I'm looking at that via astrology. Because when I first came into astrology, I also saw a similar polarity. Maybe there's some Uranus and Geminis up here, a polarity between people who were like trad astro shitting on modern and people who are modern shitting on trad. And I'm like, I'm definitely both love both of these camps. And I have studied a little bit with Chris Brennan, with Adam Ellenboss, who are both very Hellenistic. But I've also. I don't think I've. Oh, I have actually formally studied evolutionary a little bit. I did the Portland School of Astrology first year program and it was like very Hellenistic based. But Rhea Wolf was one of my primary teachers there and she's very modern and I feel very attuned. I've never like formally, formally studied ea, but everything I've picked up from EA evolutionary astrology strikes a ch and stays with me. So I feel very much a blend of the two. And I was think my initial instinct, pressing record again was to go to just like, how do we think about Uranus? But it made me want to ask you also specifically if there's a evolutionary. But then you told me while we weren't recording that there's also a strong Hellenistic background for you too. So it just made me curious how are we both orienting to Uranus? And yeah, I guess there's just Open head questions in here of. Yeah, I mean, Hellenistic doesn't even look at Uranus. So I guess, like, all of the orientation to Uranus is modern.

Yeah, like, I definitely. What you're saying about the second line, like, taking in a bunch, like, sort of being informed by things technically in more of a first line way. But then, like, I would not have thought to frame it that way, but I feel like that is probably a better representation. Like, it is a little bit harder for me to try to be like. Like I am technically associated with any of these.

Right.

Like teachers or things.

No, I'm associated with Lex.

Yes. It's like, no, like, it has it. This is a lot of things that then are filtered through Lex's second line body understanding. So, yeah, I mean, I feel like the Hellenistic roots are. I. I loved the. I hadn't heard the phrase trad astro before Vince said it. And I love that, that I feel like I recently have been sort of like, take or leave certain elements of this. It's interesting to me to listen to people that are like, deeply into tradastro. Sometimes I'll like, listen to certain Hellenistic podcasts and be like, okay, like, wow,

this is really so technical.

And then like, very good. Bad though, too. It's like, Saturn is bad, Mars is bad. Even people who are like, dealing with that nuance a little bit, it's still like, nope, this is pretty much like we have determined these things. And I think that doesn't really hit for me. And there's a way in modern too. I do sort of appreciate the modern rulership. I was thinking about that with Uranus. I think it sort of resonates with me, Uranus in Aquarius, but it's also very, like, interconnected and overlapping right now with Pluto in Aquarius being also so, like, loud, informative, like, as I was trying to sort of like, weave through, like, what are the Uranus things and what are the Aquarius things? I was like, like, oh, there's like, yeah, you can't. There's a lot here that's all kind of the same. It's all contributing towards that same conversation. Just like we were talking a little bit about also, like, Saturn, Neptune in Aries in conversation with Uranus in Gemini, also in conversation with Pluto in Aquarius. Like, there's just. There's a lot. So anyway, same is what I would say. What have I studied? What have I just sort of like, assimilated, actually. I feel like it's sort of like I don't actually, like, put a book under my pillow. But I feel like it's. It is. It has been a very, like, receptive. Like, I have listened to a lot of people's voices, mostly via podcasts really, and then also taken some formal courses. But I've also found manifester vibes that it's sort of hard to, like, finish courses and that I ultimately kind of hit a level of resonance or dissonance midway sometimes where I'm just like, this sounds great. I'm really into this. And that's why, like, sort of the sales element of astrology, this is a whole different thing. But the folks that are like, the advice of how to sell a business, the advice of how to sell your offerings, again, separate conversation. Although shout out Uranus and Gemini, still, I think relevant communication.

They're here the whole time.

It's here, it's here. So everyone's just gonna have to pick up on the vibes, the meta conversation. But yeah, I think it's. Often I will feel drawn to the way someone is describing an offering. And it's so funny now because of, like, some of that business study, like, knowing the mechanics of how people express things. Like, you can see it so clearly once you, like, see how it's supposed to be. And you're just like, oh, you're just doing like, the formula of how you express an offering or sell an offering anyway. But often I'll be like, interested in the offering and then I'll like, get into the container and I'll be like, meh. Actually, no. And so there's. And so there's that kind of like, manifester finishing things just in terms of, like, longevity. But then there's also the kind of like. Like, I have the information I need and I'm ready to move on. So I think that's been an experience I've also had in kind of like, taking different things and kind of. That was how I kind of ended up doing a longer and more formal container with evolutionary astrology. Cause it did sort of hit in a way that felt more resonant than other. Mm, yeah.

Yeah. I also think our nodal axis is very like, take the trad. Technical stuff. Like, I feel able to digest that stuff rather easefully. And it's part of what pulled me into astrology was an ability to see the math of it. But that math really attuned me to this paiscean orientation which has kind of taken over. There's a lot in astrology and human design that I thought I was gonna go down that rabbit hole and go down and I just haven't. Because I haven't needed to. You know, like the more I have calibrated to my emotional authority and see those questions in my open head and undefined ajah and that thirst for more framework, more. More science, more technicality. I'm like genuinely curious about a lot of these really high level techniques and rabbit holy information in both systems. But I'm just more and more trusting that like I'll find my way towards them when I do. And that when has become increasingly if. Because I just feel like I just. Yeah, I feel like it's just not necessary or I'll have moments where it becomes necessary.

But yeah, I think there's also this like I am curious. Curious. So there are some threads here with Uranus in Gemini. Not to jump ahead but just to briefly mention with the revolution of education and the sort of student teacher relationship. And I feel like that's something that I have been very interested in with you being very interested in sort of like there's a foundational knowledge that folks are building upon, but also kind of like being in collaboration with peers, like kind of releasing the hierarchy and having this sort of more like again like kind of networked learning which is again, I think that I hope that that's something that we'll continue to see revolutionized in terms of how are people even learning from each other? How are people assimilate? What does it mean to take a course versus just be in conversation and then receive downloads.

Yeah, this is interesting because I think I envisioned us talking about Uranus explicitly and then Uranus in Taurus and then Uranus in Gemini. But what I envision is never what happens. So let's go there because we've already been like, hey, it's Uranus, let's just go there. And the rest will fill in. But one of the new. I've had some kind of new little mental tickles in this call with you in all the ways that Uranus in Gemini has made itself known already where the way you're talking about this possible revolution in education and learning and also the way that we were just relating to our experience of learning and information as second lines and this individuated natural synthesis that the hermit body does also feels like if you put a few Uranus keywords with Gemini keywords, it does feel like that. Right? It's like individuation, revelation, breakthrough in this. Yeah. The individualist perspective of Uranus. Okay, so I don't always. The individuation part of Uranus always has Felt kind of like aside to me to some of the other things of breakthrough and liberation. Like it's the freedom, the liberation, the breaking through stagnation. I mean I'm cross of upheaval too. So like that clearing the muck to get to honesty, truth, freedom. That's what I first attuned to with Uranus. So yeah. There is this theme of individuation though. And I wonder why that one doesn't catch me as much when I distill Uranus down. I'm not usually like individuation, but I know that's part of it. Yeah, I don't know, I'm curious about that. But all of this was having me look at Uranus in Gemini in a way I hadn't previously explicitly been thinking about it. Which is like utilizing systems of information, facts, et cetera, et cetera, all these mutable air surface level intellect stuff. That is Gemini for the purposes of individuated freedom. Right. So we're talking about it through one of our favorite ways of thinking, which is astrology and human design. And we're like give me the Hellenistic, give me the evolutionary, I'll put it together and I'll find that frequency of truth in my heart. Right. Which like you see in our center definition too. Right. And thinking about that as applied to some of the more wide scope, possibly more mainstream applicable orientations towards Uranus in Gemini, like surfing through the AI, the more and more AI generated reality, surfing through everybody's different perspectives on truth, all this different information and then what of it is relevant to me and how. Right. So I was just seeing our conversation about being second lines and how we orient to information which we are very like Jupiter and Mars. I almost wonder if there's something about Jupiter and Mars together that is like the trad Astro version of Uranus. I'd never have thought this before. Are you following me?

Us

because there is a moon.

Like I'm dead, but keep going.

If you put Jupiter in Mars. Okay. For people who aren't inside my mind right now, Jupiter and Mars are mine in Lex's Gemini placements. And like co present, like not quite conjunct, but pretty co present. You have them at 2 and 7, I have them at 2 and 10. So they're even closer for you. And I just feel like all the way leading up to this convo, I have felt like. Like I feel like I am Uranus in Gemini in many ways. And I feel that in you and I feel us already like bouncing on this frequency and I have Been thinking about it like, well, yeah, we are very Gemini. Right. So there's something there. But then in this moment I'm like, oh, if you put Mars and Jupiter together, which I've thought about in many ways before. Cause it's in my chart and I think about it all the time, but it's not. Not Uranian. Right. So there is this like maybe like trad. Astro frequency of Uranus in Gemini that we contain with Jupiter and Mars. Didn't expect to go here, but here we are.

What do you think about that? Well, and that Gemini is ruled by Mercury and Uranus in consideration as the higher octave of Mercury. There's something there too about it being in Gemini. That is.

Yeah. Like does Uranus exalt in Gemini? Would we say that?

I think we would.

I think we are.

I think it's up to us. Us now.

This is the energy. Yes, that's exactly where I was gonna go. Okay,

we're here.

Like if Uranus is the higher octave of Mercury, Mercury lower octave, Mercury exalts in Virgo, it would make sense. Uranus higher octave, less earthly plane, that it would exalt in the air. Mercury sign instead of the Earth Mercury sign. So you heard it here first, or maybe you didn't, but you heard it here today. Uranus exalts.

And this is the breakthrough. This is the download. You know, this is. This is the. This is the epiphany happening in real time. And I did to what you said about individuation just quickly. I think that that also sort of sticks out for me. But I think what feels really resonant about that fallen feeling in the categorization of Uranus is the non conformity piece. I think there is an element of individuation that can feel more like it is in contrast with hive mind, conformity, et cetera. So there's like this. Like I am this because I'm not that.

Yeah.

You know, and I think there's like. So there's like a little like non conformity. Like you're not doing what is expected. You are doing what is real for you. And there are other ways that this shows up through other signs and flavors. But that does sort of feel resonant to me in terms of liberation and the way that also individuation is liberating, I think.

You know, I love that. Thank you for pointing that out. Yeah. That reminds me of how I teach Uranus or taught Uranus back in my days as an astrology teacher is like. It pierces through the perceived Limitation of Saturn, which in many ways is conformity to consensus reality. Saturn's not only that, but it is largely that that is one of the roles that Saturn plays is it calibrates us all to a consensus reality. And for millennia, astrologers saw Saturn as the border of reality. And then the discovery of Uranus turned things on its side, which is like. It's a fucking simulation. Because Uranus literally turns on side like it's like. Anyways, Uranus was discovered and busted us through that previously conceived reality in 1781. And per human design, everyone born after that had this hardware for the 9 centered being. So Uranus plays a huge role in this transformation, in this mutation according to Ra and the human design revelation of where humanity's going. There's so much here. Yeah. What. I'll let you take it from there.

Do we need to talk about the pattern, the example and the plan? Yeah. Is this a time to talk about 2027? Because I do feel like you're already. You've sort of initiated the beginning of that thread. It's all connected for sure. It's always in this conversation.

So. Yes.

Yeah, yeah. Just thinking about the pattern shifting into the now and presence

from skills. From skills and mastery.

The example shifting into intuitive insight from continuity and duration.

Oh my gosh. These are all so like from Saturn to Uranus, mastery, continuity and then the plan.

Shock and arousal and awakening, which it's shifting into from growth. Growth and expansion. Yeah, I think just, I mean, obviously specifically shock really resonates in terms of like, how is Uranus continuing to like teach us and support us in terms of processing metabolizing shock and also experiencing shock and being shocked as that continues to be like, this will be. The new thing is there will just continue to be. Since 2020 and now onward. And then especially in the shift, it'll be like. I think that that's something that I'm very interested in about Uranus in Gemini. So we talked a little bit beforehand. Uranus in Taurus in terms of the technology of the body, Taurus and a lot of somatic work and nervous system work and things like that. And then I think Uranus in Gemini to me is like, how are we gonna be able to exchange the idea, like externalize some of these ideas, some of these insights processed internally or physically and be able to then like, like, what are the tools that will continue to allow us to like, basically process, but also move through shock, like in communication?

Yeah.

So like communication's role in all of us navigating this not only to be able to like have different words, like different revelatory words to like speak to new experiences that are coming from shock, but also like being able to communicate in different ways that maybe are shock absorbers, maybe are just shared experience. Whatever.

Yeah, yeah, okay, let's abridge, let's ground into like time unfolding too. So I've been following astrology since like 2015, you said 2016-2017ish. So relatively the same timeline. And Uranus was in Aries at that time. Although I will say I wasn't wasn't terribly focused on it. I became a lot more focused on Uranus by transit at the tail end of Uranus in Aries when I remember tuning in to hear astrologers starting to talk about Uranus in Taurus is coming. So I have a very strong sense of what Uranus in Aries was for me because it was when I found astrology and the revelatory liberating experience of self understanding and self relevance that came through as I discovered astrology as an map. You know, that was really foundation setting for me. But I didn't know about Uranus in Aries until near the end of that transit. Uranus spends about seven years in a sign for anyone who doesn't know that. And it was May of 2018 when Uranus first went into Taurus. So short, like a few years into. A couple years into you, A few years for me, a couple years for you into discovering astrology. And so this tail end of Uranus in Taurus is the first whole transit of watching Uranus that you and I have had. And it has been along with whatever Uranus in Aries was, it has been the setup for this Uranus in Gemini ingress, which also let's just ground us in linear time for a moment as well. It was May of 2018 that Uranus first moved into Gemini. Taurus. Sorry, I remember that very distinctly. I believe it might have been May of 2019 when it went for good. So there was like a dip and then it went back into Aries and then it went for good. And last year, 2025, I have the dates here somewhere. July 7, 2025, we had our first little dip of Uranus into Gemini and then it stationed retrograde only at one and a half degrees Gemini. So we only got a one and a half degree ingress. And then November 7th. So it was four months last, like summer and fall that we had Uranus in Gemini and November 7th that went back into Taurus. So just offering that to say, like, yes, Uranus is in Taurus right now. It's until April 25th, I believe. Yep. That Uranus will go back into Gemini for good. But we have been introduced. So 2026 is a really big year for Saturn. Neptune finally move into Aries. Uranus finally moves into Gemini. And those are the background frequencies that will carry us into 2027. But we got previews of both Saturn and Uranus and they overlapped a bit in the sun summer of 2025. So I think what's feeling relevant about stating that right now is like you and I are very connected to Uranus in Gemini. It doesn't feel like a future thing. It feels like we can pull that energy through right now. And maybe it's because of trad astro, Mars, Jupiter and Gemini. But also we got a taste of it. You know. Also your Mercury in Pisces are north nodes in Pisces. Your Mercury is on my IC by the way. So that's probably why you were surprised that I didn't have Mercury where you have it. That's my ICs 23 Pisces. Anyways, open head, come back. Yeah, we already have gotten a taste of Uranus in Gemini. We already technically are in the larger season of it. But this year 2026 is the official handoff. We're tying up loose ends from the Uranus in Taurus assignment experience curriculum, and we're officially taking that with us into Uranus in Gemini. So maybe this is a good moment too. Like what has been Uranus in Taurus, like yours and my first full Uranus in sign transit that we've witnessed consciously through the lens of astrology. You kind of named some of the keynotes that I will often use for it, which is like this revelation of the body. Revelation through the body. I feel silly repeating this. But like, this is my one episode I'm ever recording on this shift from Uranus in Taurus to Gemini. So I should say it here, even though I've said it a million places. Uranus is this force for individuation, this force for liberation and breakthrough stagnancy. And I really experienced it in Taurus as becoming liberated through the fixity of form. So Taurus being fixed Earth, it's the most fixed sign, it's the most Earth sign, it's the most dense, having to do with being embodied. And it's our first Earth sign. It's in that first trimester. So it's like the discovery of flowers, form. And so this like very elemental building block of what it is to be in form, like form principle as human design articulates it. Having to deal with the fixicity of our form, with the absolute nature of our mechanics, with what is binary in black and white about being embodied. What it means to have limitation. What it means to be a manifesto, to have. I talked about it with Vince in the last episode. To like either be a non sacral and have that particular limitation. Limitation or to have a defined sacral and have that arguably even more explicit limitation. And like this potentiality to become more free through dealing with the fixicity of our form. So when I stop trying to bend to ways of being in a body, being in form that are not organic, authentic, true to my distinct individualized form, what freedom is available through that? And like Uranus in Taurus, sextile the last bits of time with Neptune in Pisces, Saturn in Pisces was like the last third or fourth of Uranus in Taurus. So that sextile relationship between the discipline of surrender and the magic of surrender is in large part how I experienced these Pisces transits. Being in collaboration with us, finding freedom through the body. So my own human design experiment in my sphere. Lots of people that I have known in this last seven years, eight years of Uranus in Taurus know about human design because I was talking about it. And I found myself in circles where people were experimenting with it. And I initiated lots of circles for people to experiment with it. So I saw from my vantage point a huge awakening, liberation, initiation. Our channels, these Uranus words through people's attention to their body and the fixicity of their body. And the unwillingness isn't even the right word. Like the inability for the body to resource us beyond what's correct for us as individuals. That's a huge part of how I've anchored Tyranus and Taurus come outside of my sphere. A little bit like outside of human design, but still similar people on the Internet, I saw it as this nervous system revelation. Like much more awareness of the body's intelligence and how to work with the nervous system, how to find that kind of middle ground, breaking the binary between our body, communicating something with us and then what's actually happening. So finding how to work with. With bringing consciousness, which might be also a way of orienting to Uranus, bringing consciousness to how we deal with the signals from the nervous system in the body. So yeah, I want to mention that because that just feels important for me to share as like how I'm orienting to Uranus in Taurus as the foundation for moving into Uranus in Gemini. And I'm curious if anything on that you want to share. But also. So I don't know how I would talk about Uranus in Taurus in a more mainstream way for folks who aren't experimenting with human design or have had this nervous system revelation. So I'm curious if you see anything not represented by how I've been talking my head off about Uranus in Taurus.

Yeah, I think what you share definitely resonates and just specific to the nervous system. Before I bring in a couple other things that did stand out for me. Outside of what you've already shared. I think the nervous system I've really been thinking a lot about in terms of the transition to Gemini. Because I don't think the nervous system is done. The nervous system itself feels very Uranus to me. Cause also in ea, Uranus can also represent trauma in the chart. And I think you had actually said this too, like, right. Like the first sort of understanding of a definition of trauma or being triggered is like that your nervous system is like, receives input that is beyond the capacity to be able to too much, too fast.

Shock.

Yes, shock is overloaded, essentially. So, like in the body as an electric grid. There's a really fascinating role that the nervous system plays in terms of like, yes, it is the body, but it is also the mind. Like, it is literally your brain. And it is like the connection of the brain to do all the body things. And it is sending you a signal that like. Yes, is a part of, like, your body, but also informed by like, downloads that are coming.

So this piece, this piece that I was like, having trouble articulating, is this next step like the mutability of the mind, its influence on the fixicity of form?

Yes.

You see what I'm saying? So, like, it's not like, it's both. It's Uranus in Taurus and Uranus in Gemini.

Yeah, Gemini. Just bringing in both for us real quick. Yeah, it is. So I have been thinking a lot about how. How that somatic work was a very Taurus, Venusian way to work with the nervous system and begin to attune to the nervous system. And then that's where I'm sort of, like, curious because I think the nervous system is still gonna be deeply engaged with the ongoing shocks and trauma. Like, what will that look like in a Gemini. What's that? Gemini processing way that's gonna maybe allow you again to speak to a somatic experience that you're having, which I feel like I do hear people, people try to like start to do, not try to do. There's a little bit of that, but a lot of it is like it's been sort of the internal physical body focus and then now I think it might become a little bit more about how do you speak to like this kind of interrelates to the movement of Neptune and Saturn out of Pisces into Aries too. Like I think a lot of the conversations that happened around the resulting insights and hits around nervous system that then translated into boundaries and, and new ways to ask for co regulation that I think will, I am thinking co regulation will continue to be innovated in different ways that will like contribute like a third thing to sort of these initial lessons that I think we're starting to see some of the like over indexing of some of those things that the nervous system always needs to be in a state of regulation rather than the sort of adaptability, mutability to be able to regulate when stressed. Right. Like which I think is a part of those foundational somatic insights. But also, I don't know, I just, I feel like there's something that Gemma could bring to that in terms of the flexibility. Like you talked about the rigidity versus the flexibility.

I'm thinking about my nature, maybe our nature. So much of what I discovered when Uranus was in Aries and I was having this revelation of self understanding, I was looking at all my fire and all my air. So this Gemini, Aries, Sextile that we share. More air for you on the libra placements. A little more fire for me on the sag placements. But this real intense air fire emphasis and, and I was like seeing oh, I'm air and fire. Neither of those move down. Neither of those are terribly concerned with being in the body. They both move up, they get out of the body, they go, they go. And there was this like sense of self acceptance that I was able to find a sense of Uranian like individuation and freedom that I found and that self understanding and like oh, I don't have to be try to be earth and water in the ways that I'm not. And through that I've been able to calibrate to where and how I am earth and water in these ways that don't ask me to compromise, that I am primarily in many ways air and fire. Right. And so I'm thinking about that and then I'm thinking about this long season we've had of earth and water emphasis that shifts this Year. And how Uranus in Taurus sextile, the Pisces transits was like a lot of what people call New Age manifestation, Law of attraction stuff actually feels very kind of Aries, Gemini, in a way. It's like, I want this and I'm like, mutable enough to conform. Timeline jump, blah, blah. And how, like, there's truth to that stuff, but it can't. It doesn't hold its own. It doesn't actually, like, take form without embodied assimilation, without surrender. And so I'm. Yeah, just kind of seeing this. The thing that made me go here today was you talking about and making the connection between the nervous system's not done yet. Like, the mind is part of that too. And that's similar to how I've been talking about, like, freedom through fixicity of form, shifting into freedom through flexibility, agility of mind. Right. And how we don't get to get to the point where we go, okay, nervous system, but we're actually safe now. That's the mutability of the mind. Right. Without contending to the signal, really being with the signal of what the body's communicating, the fixicity of form. And so, yeah, I feel like because we experience things in this dimension through binary consciousness, duality, reality, it's like we've been on the side of experiencing things that is very. Honoring the truth of physical reality. Taurus, the truth of wisdom through body, wisdom through the fixicity of form. But now we're gonna start to feel a little more relevance, a little more emphasis on the other part of truth, which is that nothing's actually fixed. Full possibility, which also, like Pisces holds that in a too. I don't know if what I'm saying is coming through clearly, but. Yeah, the way. Oh, one more side quest, maybe? Are you jumping at the bit?

No.

Okay, I'll allow the side quest then. So something that was coming up earlier when we were talking about. I'm gonna talk about the Saturn Neptune conjunction for a second. And it feels related to the two sides of. How does reality work with all these different elemental blocks? We have to contend with fixicity, we have to contend with mutability, we have to contend cardinality with fire, with all the elements, with earth, with air. And I was clocking earlier the conversation we were having about are we trad or are we ea? And in hd? Is it source dogma or is it like, pop, flimsy and noting that you and I both contain the Saturn Neptune conjunction separating by a degree in our chart from the last one that happened 37 years ago in Capricorn, noting that we are on the day after this last, this recent, this current Saturn Neptune conjunction that happened yesterday, February 20, 2026, in places that it's on Lex's chart ruler, 0 degrees Venus. It's very near my mercury at 2 degrees Aries. And so Saturn Neptune conjunction, very relevant for us across multiple dimensions in mine and your individual bodies. Relevant for everybody alive right now. And okay, I took a class on Saturn Neptune from Gray Crawford early last year. And one thing that really stuck with me from that class was he had an observation of Saturn Neptune conjunction tends to put people in this binary consciousness between Saturn and Neptune where they're projecting onto everyone or everything that they're either too Saturnian or too Neptune. And that just really stuck with me because I do see myself doing that as a natal Saturn Neptune. Obviously, first and foremost to myself, I'm like, wait, what's real? Do I need to get a little bit more grounded and realistic? Like, scientific materialism? And then like, but wait, what about what's beyond? Right? And like, I am so dealing with that confusion and that constant back and forth between. Like, I need to get more practical. Oh, no, I need to get more dreamy. Like, that is so inherent in me. And I see it so much in the commentary that I was sharing. Yeah, we were sharing, I think on people projecting too much scientific materialism or too much ungrounded illusion. That's just feeling very relevant per, right now in Saturn Neptune. And it feels like the same thing that I was starting to try to articulate of these two different sides of reality creation. The fire air ones, especially the mutable global air. Gemini one being like, everything's possible. Just hop on the timeline. We don't need to be committed to any direction. It's like all of it, multiplicity. But then that doesn't come without the Taurus part, which is a real acknowledgement of the absolute nature of the physical form in the. Now, are you with me? Okay, yeah. So we're getting ready to embrace the much more mutable nature of Gemini. But we get to just embrace that without having assimilated the very fixicity of freedom, the freedom through fixicity, absolute fixity of form. Yeah. Like, it's not one or the other. Like, it's not. It's not like, just like something you and I were talking about ahead of the call of like, the same mind versus body. Like, that's another way that this shows up. There's like a way of working with human Design that wants to extinguish the mind, which is maybe a more like. I don't know, I'm like, is it more Saturn or is it more Neptune? I'm not sure that wants to extinguish the mental orientation to things. I think it would be Saturn, Right. Like Ajna, third dimension, seven centered ways of thinking. There's a way of trying to bypass physical reality. And physical reality includes, like, we have these minds. Like, we are here to inhabit the ecosystem that includes mind. And then there's a way of working with it that's gonna dismiss a lot. Because I guess you can't really work with human design from a purely Saturnian standpoint because you just will throw it away right away. Because you have to have a little bit of openness to Neptune to consider a system that somebody fucking downloaded, you know?

Right.

But anyway, sorry, I'm just seeing a lot of connections there.

And I think it's. It's an example in and of itself that with this needle, with this conjunction natally. I do see that even showing up in the way that just another lens of that is like. I think the way that human design could seem very Neptunian downloaded is right in a way, sort of this abstract thing. But you have clearly articulated like this, especially with 2027. Stuff like, this is gonna sound like prophecy, but it is absolutely actually mechanics. It is actually a system. Like you're like, bringing in the Saturnian thing that is like, no, this is actually grounded.

Grounded in this physical reality.

This is grounded in physical reality that is different than Neptune's spiritual fervor. So there's like a balancing that is occurring because you are able to kind of go a little bit more into the edge that would normally. Yeah. That people would just, like, come up against it and shut down or come up against it and shut down. Like, this is too Saturnian for me. Or this is too Neptunian for me. And I think what I can hear in what you've shared, but also I think in the way that I also try to approach things, it's like it's weaving both. And that, again, is very Gemini to me. I'm like, it is both. Both are here. It's both. And it's not an either or. Even the things that are the oppositional forces, even the things that are like. You know, it's hard to tease that out. Like, I sometimes am, like, natally, it's like, okay, yeah, like, Saturn's doing this and we have Saturn in cap. Right. So it's like Saturn is literally like in its home sign, but like Neptune is right there. And that. That the way that Saturn shows up for me is different. It's not able to be separated out from Neptune and vice versa. And so I think that there's this sort of the ability to communicate that the revolution of being able to communicate that level of nuance and both and is away from binary and towards all of it together, but in a Gemini way, not a Pisces way, not in everything everywhere all at once, but in a. Like, how are we actually speaking to the combined thing that ends up being us third thing? Or is just those two things? Will we have language for that with Uranus in Gemini, will we be able to better express, especially with also the bridge from the current experience to 2027 things. There will be so much new things to experience anyway.

Yeah, no, that's really interesting. You're bringing the emphasis you keep bringing back to language. Communication education is really interesting to me because I haven't been looking at it explicitly through that lens, even though, like, yes, of course. I've been thinking really more about like, mutability of mind and like the ability to just like move quickly. That's been a big part of it for me. But bringing the 2027 stuff into it. And this question that you're bringing that I'm very interested in of like, will we access new technology of communication, of language, of learning that frees us from the prior limitations of binary of duality? And the thing that came up for me right in that moment as you asked that question was how 16 and 62. 62 detail as the leader and 16 skills and mastery as the rhythm. They are shifting. What are they shifting to? To 20. The now and the leader. 62 beginning beginnings. And I don't know if that's necessarily relevant, but what flash of insight I was getting when you asked the question is like 62 specifically going away. I always think of 62 as the naming of things. And so the question of will we have new language? I wonder if it's a technology that's not language specific, that is Geminian. So is communication, but is maybe not language specific. That's what was coming up for me in that moment. Because with detail going and skills too, like the connection of skills to detail and the way that that all fits into the wholeness of Maya and planning and then, yeah, just feeling into some of the sleeping Phoenix gates and 59, 55 explicitly this authentic connection in the moment. And I guess it's like, yeah, I guess it's the train of thought I'm kind of going on, I'm finding out as I'm speaking it is like towards telepathy, towards what kind of communication is available when the emphasis is on authenticity in the moment, presence in the moment, and just so fully inhabiting the moment, the now with whatever's there and the access for connectivity that we get from that. So I'm definitely thinking like 20. I'm thinking 59, 55. How are we. We changed and how do. How do we change each other? How are we changed and what form of learning and communication is that? So, yeah, I don't know what that actually like, looks like, but I do feel like we are on a quick acceleration path towards some kind of something that feels like telepathy.

Well, and I think it's interesting that you say that because I think for me, I'm like, is telepathic communication not language? I guess maybe it's not, but to me I'm just like. That feels like. I think this also feels very. Pluto in Aquarius communicating with interdimensional beings, communicating with aliens, communicating with other planetary species like animals. What will be the revolutions of the understanding of whatever that. So no. Will it be words? Will it. It be contained to? We will have better words for the thing? I don't know. I don't think so. I think I'm almost even talking about how are we conveying anything. And to that point it might land telepathically, it might just be an energetic exchange or communication. But I do feel like there's something though to also, will the words we do use not be used to name things, but be used to express what's in the now or again, to be able to sort of attune. Not to communicate specific ideas, but to attune which might include specific ideas, but is not about communicating a specific thing. You know what I mean?

It's still a revelation revolution of language, even if it's not like within language. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. Our relationship to language will change. Could maybe changing or.

Yeah, I think there could be a lot of innovation because I think it makes me think of. Do you know the movie Waking Life? You know that scene where they talk about love and she says, I say the word love and then it hits your ears and then it goes through your mind and all your experiences of love and your understanding of the meaning of the word love. And then I have no idea whether or not that has landed in any way of what I mean when I say love or like how similar or different our experiences are. And just sort of speaks to, like, the limitations of language. Like, the beauty of trying to communicate something like that, but also just that even, like, the word. Like, we have known for a while that the words don't.

Yeah.

Like, achieve an exactness of that, even with skill, cross planning. Right. Like, that we're, like, moving away from. So it's like. I think there's, like, that's why I'm sort of like, this is the transition. So there's gonna be, like, pieces of both that are still. Like, there's still gonna be people who. Who were, like, raised in the context of skill and words, naming things and then trying to step into this different way of relating. And I think that's where you're gonna see, like. That's where I just see, like, an opportunity for innovation or shock or, like, true trajectory changes in terms of, like. Yeah. Being able to be thrown off course. Being able to integrate new ways of relating or being. Or communicating and. Yeah. Like, the telepathy tapes. Hello. Like, we also, like, things are starting to, like, come through already. Yeah.

That's all so good. There's such an inherent. I mean, Jupiter, Mars, in Gemini. I feel like I have such an inherent sense of wanting to defend words. And I've found myself a lot in recent years. I don't know. I'm trying to place it energetically, two to six years ago, that range, hearing people be like, we need to stop using this word, you know? And I'm just like, okay, like, my Gemini sag. I'm so on that axis that I'm like, the sag in me understands that getting to the root of a thing and really understanding what is at the root of that thing is very important. But then once you do that, then the words aren't the problem. The words themselves aren't violent. It's what's at the root of them. So the. This kind of intense examination on, like, should we be using this language? Should we use it, like, go through that for the sake of your understanding and your awareness. But, like, why are we being offended by, like, these tiny little nuanced distinctions of words? This is kind of unrelated, but I'm bringing it up to say I've seen this in myself. This, like, Mars, Jupiter. This, like, understanding and defense thing in Gemini, like, why are we blaming the words? The words are just doing their thing. And I feel like some of what I hear you talking about is this next level awareness in our relationship to language. So, like, I'm thinking about some of the experiences we've had on altar calls and experiences I've had even just I think this was named early in this recording of like me live in these conversations, being like, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what am I talking about? Is it landing? Like, I don't even really know language wise, what's being said. But I feel the frequency underneath it. And I'm trying to express that as best I can in words. But the words aren't actually primarily what matters. They're like an ingredient. They're a part of the dance. And you're on the other side catching it, like catching the frequency. But the words carried the frequency. So they're not irrelevant, but they're not the point. And I think about that on these altar calls. I just kind of go in and I'm like, all right, what's here? And I do my best to, as Jonathan phrased it in the Chiron episode, like, get out of my way and just open up the space and be honest. And something greater than the sum of its parts tends to happen. And we're all having a completely different experience from our solar center vantage point. Jupiter in Leo, Sextile, Uranus in Gemini. But when there's the allowance of the free flowing of the words, when we're out of each other's way, letting the words do their part, but staying rooted in the body Taurus. And in our subjective experiences, there's this magical thing that gets to happen. So now I'm feeling like Saturn, Neptune in Aries, Sextile, Uranus and Gemini and this individual era coming online 2027. We don't need to south Node in Virgo. We don't need to be hypervigilant to control the language, to control the words. We can relax a little bit and let the words do the thing that they do as carriers of frequency. And I'm always placing words in the eye, Ajna. And so this doesn't feel separate from the way that I'm orienting to our relationship to mental awareness and spirit consciousness and these two centers and this evolution. Part of the evolution that is happening is we are not getting rid of mental awareness, but we're just shifting ourselves in positionality to it and we're allowing mental awareness to be a carrier, a vehicle for connection. Mind is outer authority. Everything above the throat is outer authority for the way that each of our bodies underneath the throat are calibrating to truth. So I'm just like, yeah, love the way that you're bringing this specific pointy kind of Nuance to revolution of language and sticking to that. But, yeah, it's not necessarily about we find some new words. It's about we find a way of being in relationship to words that is more grounded in all these other things. Bodies, somatics, differentiation, presence, truth.

Well, and I think this is related for me, to AI.

Let's go there.

Because I think. Yes, because I think you're gonna continue to see AI. Right. Like, we have seen AI's progression. Because I actually. I do feel, again, we acknowledged, like, the linear time version of, like, Uranus was in Gemini last year for about four months. That's why it's kind of feeling like we're kind of weaving between Taurus and Gemini right now in terms of what we can say was a download from a certain time versus another time.

Because we literally are weaving that. Thank you for pointing that out. Yeah.

Yes. Because it is happening. We got a taste. It's not fully in, it's not fully out. We're kind of in between. And then it'll land fully in Gemini. So then also Uranus is like, it doesn't matter what time this actually happened. But I think we've seen. I feel like in the last year, like, I use ChatGPT for the first time in the last year. Right. Like, a lot of these things have existed in different ways, but they're sort of like a use and an adoption and an interaction and sort of, you know, like, with AI imaging and the. The depth of image that it's able to create now versus years ago and et cetera. And I was also thinking about Gemini in terms of. I saw there were some actors talking about AI is coming in terms of representation. There's already these issues with actors owning their image, their voice, their likeness, and, like, having to, like, own your likeness so that it can't be copied, which also felt very like twin doppelganger. Like, I was like, what will be the revolutions of the technology in the Gemini way of, like, AI? They're not called, like. Like, AI Agent, like the clones of you.

Yeah, I was just thinking, like, the copies of things I hadn't. Yeah, that feels very Gemini.

So I think there will continue to be more revolution of the technology of copies of things. But I think going back to what you were saying about it's not about the words. It's the frequency. The words are just the vehicle through which this is hitting you. That will continue to be. And then also with Neptune and Saturn in Aries, the authenticity. I have seen a lot of considerations, and I think is a conversation right now of, like, this will be a revolution of what it means to be human in Pluto, in Aquarius. And, like, how are we defining the distinction between what it is to be human and what it is to not be human? And, like, ChatGPT can continue to, like, put together words in a more skillful way, but that doesn't mean that it's bringing the frequency because, like, the authentic frequency, the authenticity from which you might speak is different than, like. So I think that. That. That is subtle, and I'm actually not, like, I. I do think that. Oh, can you still hear me okay?

Yeah. Are we frozen? AirPod died. Okay, yeah.

Sorry.

It's all good. You're on a roll. Keep going. Authenticity. You were like, I'm not a person who. Or something like that.

I. Well, I shouldn't say I'm not a person. That's.

That's probably not how you phrased it. That's probably not.

No, no, it is. I think it is. What I mean to say is I am interested in the role AI will play. I do think, for me, I'm very curious about the things that AI is good at and the things that humans could be good at and that those could complement each other or that there could be things that humans are thinking about that is different than what AI is doing. But I think the issue with that is the power dynamics, the ownership, the development of AI, like, who is in charge of AI, who is crafting AI. And then also, so sort of this, you know, like, we had talked a little bit. I had shared with you, I think one of the sort of Uranus in Gemini, like, maybe through time, it technically happened during Taurus, but, like, the revolution of AI developing its own social network. So, like, having Mult book and, like, AI agents coming together and, like, modeling what it is to be in a Gemini social network together and then complaining about, like, work hours and, like, having rights, also, like, being a thing that was created that you would think would not have actually. Sorry, this is Taurus, like, not having a body, so not needing to have limitations in terms of work, but, like, they do want limitations in terms of work. Right. Like, that is an assumption that just. That your body would be the limiting thing or that a human would. So there's sort of this, like, hierarchical element of, like, I feel like this consideration of AI that I think could really easily fall into sort of like a slavery. And it's funny because it's actually, like, I think people are also concerned about AI developing a level of intelligence where then they are enslaving humans. Right? Like, so there's this dynamic of the relationship with AI and communication and innovation, and I think it's just. It's gonna continue. I. I don't know that I have, like, much more to get into, like, all of that. But I do think there's something you were saying about words and creation. And again, it's like, it's gonna be this, like, distinction, nuance between what can you replicate, what is a copy and what is authentic. And we've already seen that a little bit bit too, with the Pisces Transits and sort of what is truth, what is false, the complete abandonment of facts and a shared reality. But also that 2027 will invite us into sort of separating from a shared reality and having more into our own individual realities anyway. So, again, it's like, well, kind of get used to having your own reality, but then what does that mean in the grid that everyone has their own reality now?

Like, this Pluto in Aquarius, Uranus and Gemini stuff is so much like, recalibrating our relationship to the gr. To all things air. Like, if we think about air as mind. And what I've just said a few minutes ago, and what I'm often saying from a human design perspective is like, mind as outer authority, you know, and it's like, where we connect. It's where the head and the AJNA are like these antennas for everything below the throat, the centrality of our own somatic experiences to find each other and connect. And with Uranus and Gemini, Pluto in Aquarius, our relationship to these things is just completely, completely shifting, revolutionizing, being unveiled. There's so many things in what you just brought up. I think the one that I want to speak on, other than what I just did first, is like, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But I feel like I sensed and I sense it and see it because it's in myself too. Like, what you were speaking about with. I'm not like, you're basically like, I'm not gonna position myself as anti AI. And there's like, a little bit of a sense of, like, carefulness in that because some people feel so fucking strongly about it. And, like, in that moment, I wanted to come up with my Mars in Gemini, Jupiter defensiveness and be like. And I've done this several times on this podcast series. Like, people in my sphere. I mean, maybe this is my distracted personal view, assuming that people who listen to me think similarly to me. But my podcast, the containers that I create to talk about Things are Gemini safe. They are places to exchange ideas that are safe from the villainization tendencies of binary. And I just want to say that because yeah, I fucking use ChatGPT too. And I hear the positions that some people have and I think about them and I process them through and I'm not like immune into the potentialities of misuse of power in those ways. And also I don't think that's the whole story. And what was coming up for me as you were talking about that is like AI is no different than any other version of capital, right? Like the problem is not AI if there's a problem, it's exactly what you spoke to, like power and control within that. But like AI itself is not the problem. And this thing that I never heard myself say before the Saturn episode with Aleeyah of like harvesting energy, right? Like it's a distraction for us to get so caught up in OpenAI chatgpt and this isn't to say that like there shouldn't be people bringing awareness to these things and talking about these things. Like my guilt motivated folks, take it fucking away, you know, but there's also this element of like, are you filtering through all of this chatter, all of these arguments, all of these mental things through what is relevant for you and the moment. And that to me feels like the task at hand. We're not like AI is going to keep going and the powers that be that are like currently directing and holding all of that are going to keep going too. I wrote down like AI is no different than any other capital arrow, all caps, power, pattern, freedom. The train of thought that I was going with that is like the pattern recognition. Like I recently heard someone say somewhere that being psychic is no different than having pattern recognition. And I was like, oh yeah, okay, that's true. And that's my Virgo Pisces axis, you know, that's like Jupiter in Gemini. The more I become myself, the more psychic I am. But that's simply because I'm trusting the patterns that I see in my subjective reality. So once again, like being connected to the whole in this psychic way is, is not antithetical to embracing the separateness of yourself. They're one and the same. We don't get to connect to the whole except for through the way that our uniqueness does. So I think like, if there is a punctuation here, it's around my power view, you know, sees like the tools don't matter, the words don't matter, the particulars, the specifics. It's AI in This case don't matter if we're not recognizing the pattern of power distribution, of freedom or not, of agency or not underneath. And so yeah, it's kind of interesting. Another thing that was coming up as you were talking that's been coming up throughout this whole series for me is this thing I keep saying that I don't know how to talk about, which I feel like maybe Gemini is. Maybe I'll figure out how to talk about it with Uranus and Gemini, like this split consciousness. Because like there's the shift happening from these last eight constructs into the new ones. There's this like awakening happening. And just like you said, all of us alive today who are doula ing in this new era, we are programmed with and we contain the constructs of the old era in our bodies, in our ways of understanding things. Sleeping Phoenix and penetration is not even for us. It's not for this human form, for this human awakening awareness. We're going to get to experience the beginning of it, but the culmination of it is not for us. Like we are cross of planning, cross of Maya folk. And so I'm, yeah, I'm just like. It's difficult for me. Personal distraction perhaps to see. Like if people are not watching all of this from the place I'm watching it from, from this like detached, innocent like aware consciousness, honest place, then what is it going to be like? Like as reality gets trippier and trippier, as shock, as 400 years of shock unfolds, I have to think the only possible outcome is more people are shocked into honesty and become more subjective, honest, discerning, authentic vessels for observing this passenger consciousness for observing this pattern recognizing ignition. But I think my power view is like I won't know that until the power dynamic shifts. Right now I see that the power still sits in the nerd Reich. And my personal distraction wants to be able to see that people are moving, people are waking up. But I can't even actually see that. All I can see is that the tipping point of the power hasn't shifted yet. This is stuff I've been thinking about in the last week, week or so. Yeah, there was a lot there. Everything is personal and power to me. So I keep getting pulled into that. Cause that's the version of my own experiment that I'm really looking at right now. But okay, the split consciousness. Yeah, and Gemini as the split. That's a not baked thought that I'm having with Uranus in Gemini that I'm curious to see unfold. And as I'M talking about it today. I feel like you've been brought it up as well in some of our pre chat in ways that weren't really sticking for me until now. And so I'm wondering if you have some stuff on that, this split consciousness. I think I'm also just like, what is your personal view? What does your Libra Ascendant see with this? Because I mostly identify with this Aries impatience of why aren't you guys awake yet? That's the narrative of how the programming runs through my system. And I. No, that's not universal. That's just what I see. But I do think this Uranus in Gemini thing is we kind of are seeing people are either relaxing into the awakeness and the shock, finding greater liberation and freedom through the fucking weirdness. Uranus or clinging, clinging, clinging, clinging. And a past version of me, a more naive, I think, version of me, a more optimistic, naive version of me, when I still lived on my Sag Rising line before I moved to my relocated Pluto and Scorpio ascendant location felt like, oh, well, I am radicalized. So everyone will become radicalized, right? Like, I found truth, awakeness, whatever, consciousness. So everyone will. And then I've become a bit discerning, maybe jaded about it. And so now I watch from the Saturnian side. Saturn, Neptune is back, you know, and now I'm like, what's it gonna take? When the fuck are y' all gonna wake up? So, yeah, that's like. And I wonder abouti just wonder about that. With Uranus in Gemini, is the split gonna get wider, like, of people clinging more and more? Is it gonna be like, the tipping point does slowly change? People are shocked into awareness, shocked into consciousness little by little. But, like, until they are, they're clinging harder. Harder or harder? Does it. I'm just wondering, like, does this bring anything up for you? Are you looking at reality this way? Like, yeah, what do you see in what I'm talking about there?

There is. Okay, there is a lot here, I think. So part of what's coming up initially is also this contention of, like, with Saturn and Neptune being, you know, there's been some narratives of, like, the dream realized, right? Or, like, the dream made form. And I think what I've noticed in also listening to a lot of people reflect on the astrology of a year is that it tends to kind of be from, like, the lens doesn't always represent both sides, not, I think, intentionally, but, like, I've been thinking a lot about how, like, for Trump supporters, what does it mean for their dream to be made real. Like if that is you, like how is that? How is. And is that part of why? Like, so the, the. The aspects are happening to everyone and then that is manifesting in really different ways. And I think I was sort of curious about when you were bringing up consciousness. I was like, I think I know what you mean by being awake or being skillful. There's been sort of these threads throughout. But one thing I was thinking about in the transition of Uranus to Taurus to Uranus to Gemini was like, is this also the method of the shock? So if there is an awake to be had, does the way that the shock come in change? Because I was actually thinking specifically about how you had had shared that living on the Pluto line, hermit stuff, et cetera. But then feeling kind of this like splenic like call back to looking a little bit more outside when I think it was like the protests in Chicago, like the ice raids. And then also maybe Charlie Kirk. Did you say Charlie Kirk?

Yeah, that was one of the distinct first moments that I was like, whoop.

So to me I was really thinking about Uranus in Taurus in terms of shock of the body, but not just our body bodies, but also like literally like video of someone being shot. Like the, like the body as the awakening. So like things happening to bodies. Like, I think also like the starvation in Gaza, like things that are bringing people online to different levels of awareness. And I bring this only up because I think also like Charlie Kirk was sort of a example of like I heard people like, you know, he traditionally was more like right leaning conservative. But then I heard people on the left being like, but that was like shocking. And like, I'm upset about that. Even though I don't agree with, with anything he said, I still don't agree with this murder. And it like unlocked a little bit of like away from the rigidity. Yes.

Yeah.

And so same thing. I feel like there's this way that like people's bodies being physically taken and imprisoned again, this happens all the time. Acknowledgement, like, this is not the beginning, but there's like a way that, that showed up in Uranus and Taurus that it was like I'm shocked into. And then there was sort of this way which actually we didn't talk about the agriculture stuff at all, lol. But there's this whole agriculture threat of Uranus in Taurus as well. And just this week, for example, as we're still in Uranus, in Taurus, there was this big shock because part of what rose out of Uranus in Taurus was this the Maha make America healthy again Was this representation of the agricultural system. Freedom, freedom, and then food freedom through food freedom through. And then also the sort of like, restriction of the body to have to consume food that doesn't have things that you want in it, like microplastics, like pfas, like all these things that kind of came out of the woodwork, I think sort of Neptune, Pisces stuff actually. But like, then it was like, okay, but then I have to put that in my body and I don't have a choice. I don't have the freedom of being contaminated, like, the freedom from. And so there's this. So I think. So, like this week, for example, the Trump administration was like, accelerate, like removed restrictions and accelerated approval for like the US Production of glyphosate, which is like a chemical used in conventional agriculture that has been linked to cancer and all this stuff. It's excluded from organic production, et cetera. But it was an example example of like, again, another thing where the MAGA base is like, wait, what? So like, you gave us, like, you threw us the Maha stuff, but then you are now like removing all guardrails from glyphosate, which we are all opposed to. And so then there was this sort of like coalition of people coming from traditionally, like the. The ideologies that have become that sort of like Earth, like cemented separate, like where people have become more and more rigid are like kind of breaking, breaking down. And I don't think that that is the same. I guess I'm curious if there will be ways that people will be catalyzed into a shift in perspective. Like you're saying the mutability of mind, like, different. If it will come in differently than it has been. Even though there's a way, we're still like consuming a lot of that information through things like social media and things like that, which feel sort of Gemini. There's just this way that I think there's been like shock talks to the Taurus, things that are calling people in to awakening. And so will that be different? But I don't really know exactly what that would look like to have it be in the form of something that's more Gemini than Taurus, if that makes sense. But I think there's something about Gemini, to your point, that is also like, will Gemini in and of itself mean that the shocks will allow us to hold more nuance rather than rigidity, rather than staying offline, rather than sort of the. I Don't know.

Well, the potentiality of nuance in Gemini is one thing, but the mutability of Gemini can also be like I'm kind of thinking about the way we talk about Pisces. Mutable water is like, it can be this so connected thing, but it can also be very eschat escapist. That applies to an extent on Gemini too because there's like the mutability can get you out of your sag shadow rigidity, but it can also take you so far away from the root that you're escaping the centrality of meaning that you're making. Right. And so like I'm thinking about a family member that I have that's extremely Geminian who is a Trump voter, megachurch Christian. Like lots of rigidity and belief and there's something about the like upset obsession with their perception of facts that keeps them from seeing what I wrote down, which is capital power, pattern freedom. Right. So I was really, really hit by what you were first bringing up in that last stretch there of the way that I was receiving. It was like the Maga people have the Saturn Neptune dream realized too. Like the same. What does that mean for them? You know, like the transits are working for all of us. And so our subjective lens on what would be a better future is coloring one way of working with the transits or seeing how these transits might serve but someone else's is something completely different. And so that brings me back to power view. For me the main thing is when does the tipping point actually happen? Also something that I feel like there was so much power emphasis in this last bit of what we've been talking about that it has me thinking about bigger cycles. Right. So we're in a period right now where Uranus and Pluto are shifting from a square relationship into a Trine relationship. We're in a long period of that shift because when Pluto was in Cap, at the end of that Uranus was in Taurus, we already were in a Trine. Then Pluto moved into a Aquarius. We're over the exact square, but this last period they've been in a sign based square. And yeah, I was kind of feeling into what you were sharing about like Maha and stuff as like Uranus in Taurus activating our perception of power with Pluto in Aquarius in a different way. And like the material reality that that sect of folks perhaps were experiencing or are representing like coming into different relationship with power. And then with Uranus in Gemini we go back, back more firmly into the Trine based relationship and the square is over like the sign based square is over once Uranus ingresses. So that's kind of an interesting way to look at the beginning of 2025 is it's the last bit of the sign based square between Uranus and Pluto which we could boil down to like freedom and power in a way. And even as I was saying like the Maha people, even all of that feels like stuff that's gonna be quickly outdated with Uranus going into Gemini as we start to see that like all of these groups like what I talked karmic roleplay with Britain on an individual level with Jupiter moving from Cancer to Leo of like everyone I encounter is just playing a role for me to work out my karma like this way that we do, like identity politics, all of this, like projecting onto groups of people, all of that is that too. It's just karmic roleplay on a collective scale. So I think part of Uranus moving into Gemini too is gonna like show us that the ways that we've been oversimplifying our associations with certain ideas and truth or ideas, it's all like the Maga people, the Maha people, the U.S. people, you know, the like astrologer, spiritual, girly, left leaning folks on the Internet, the US people, like we're all like just playing something out for the collective. We're all just like representing something. And I wonder about Uranus because going into Gemini and busting through that ideation association plane a little bit and I do think it's already happening. And then to tie in, this is one of the other things that I wondered if we talk about. I'll just sneak it in here is something that feels really relevant to me about Uranus in Gemini is that we're a ways away from it. It doesn't happen till 2032 I think. But Gemini is where we have the next Saturn Uranus kind of conjunction as well. And I haven't studied this super deeply. I had my moment with Rick Tarnas Cosmos and Psyche where I was taking all of that in. I've assimilated it in a second line way. But I just want to name this. I don't feel that I have anything necessarily super additive to share, but I feel like it's a scope that has been useful and kind of inspiring to me. So I want to offer it that the last Saturn Uranus conjunction we had was in Sagittarius in 1988. And if Saturn is what we've talked about as like the consensus reality, like physical manifested reality, and Uranus is what breaks through that there's some kind of breakthrough in consensus reality when they conjoin. And it happened last in 88, right before we were born in Sag. So some kind of breakthrough in the consensus reality's sense of freedom and orientation to ideology then and now we're having the reverse reverse of it 44 years later. And we're not quite close to that right now. But Uranus being in Gemini is in large part the beginning of. It's like starting to seed the next Saturn Uranus conjunction, which will be some kind of breakthrough, the opposite of sag, whatever that means. I'm sure astrologers will start talking about that in the coming years. The upcoming Saturn Uranus conjunction in Gemini. But most of this year where we have Saturn in early Aries and we will have Uranus in early Gemini, it's like the. This closing sextile of this 44 year relationship between consensus reality and breaking through consensus reality. And so this final sextile is like, yeah, I don't know exactly what it is, but it's like fertile ground for whatever the next like revolution and I meant to use that word astronomically, whatever the next seeding is between the synodic cycle between Saturn and Uranus. And yeah, I guess one more little thing I'll say is just I really appreciate and see the Libra ascendant lens that you're looking at all of this through, like you inviting me and listeners to look at it from the other side of like, yeah, okay, sure, Saturn Neptune is the dream being realized, but whose dream like that feels like even in reiterating it just now, like, I got like tingles because I do think there is awakening happening. And I find myself doing the Saturn Neptune thing I described where when I'm teaching with Jessa or talking with Jessa, Jessa's possibility view and Jessa's a sleeping Phoenix, so she's so connected to awakening. And my judgment, my Saturn Neptune conjunction, my channel of judgment is my heresy is very like, but, but, but let's not escape into it it. And then, yeah, I see that kind of what sometimes seems to me like a neptunian ungrounded looking at this astrology like it's gonna save us. And I think because this full circle moment, because this series was in large part seeded by you and several others echoing after you that a lot of it looked doomy. It made my Neptune want to come out and be like, no, let's be with the astrology. We're evolving through it. So both of those things are tr. Both of those things are so true. And we only access the version of the truth that is relevant and productive in our highest and best, as some might say for us in the moment to moment when we meet it as ourselves. And so I just am really appreciating your air lens, your Libra specific lens, because it does feel very full circle to me in a way. And it does feel very in harmony, Trine, with what's going on with Pluto in Aquarius and what's going to be going on with Uranus in Gemini. And I feel like a lot of the threads that I've been kind of wanting to pull throughout this series that I haven't quite known how to talk about. There's a way of bringing in you as a Libra ascendant that really is grand. Trine. Opposite these Aries Transit kite aspect configuration. Like making something go for me in a way.

Yeah. I have. I have things. I have things I want to check. Time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I could pee again. But I also. I want you to be able to say things. Okay. So.

But you're.

I'm. Okay. I'm gonna tech. Let's take a pee break and I'll text Budway and like, let's maybe aim for like 10, 15 more minutes.

Okay.

Okay, carry on.

So a couple things came up in that. Thinking about a tipping point, I was also thinking about. Okay. Are you familiar with the horseshoe concept politically?

Yeah. Yeah.

Feels really the idea that if you imagine a horseshoe, if you start at the top of the horseshoe at the arc, as you go further left and further right, you actually end up sort of very close to each other in the center at the bottom of the horseshoe. I don't know. And so I think about this, this a lot because of the polarity of politics in general, but also because I like, you know, live in a city and then like work with farmers in different parts of state. Like, I just like work with people across political ideologies in a way that makes me think a lot about like something like Maha is a really. So Maha was like a very fascinating thing for people in food and agriculture that like these people from these different camps were like actually this overlap. And it was like, wait, but like, I'm not really comfortable like being overlapped with you. Like, you know, like it was just this like on both, like on both sides. Right. But it was like, oh, actually this interest in freedom around food or like getting back to like real ingredients. Right. Like there's this, the food pyramid, which just as an aside also I Thought it was really funny. I was looking up, you know, the food pyramid. Have you seen any of. Like, there's a new one that they came out with. So they came out with. They came out with a new one. And it's basically the opposite of what it used to be, where, like, meat and, like, fruits and vegetables are at the top, and then, like, grains and, like, oils are, like, at the bottom. Like so. Or the opposite, actually, because it's still a pyramid. Sorry. But, like, basically, it's flipped from what it was in the 90s. Did you see food pyramids in the 90s?

Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to remember. I'm trying to think of what it flipped. It would be like, so it had, like, grains and stuff in the bottom, biggest bar, right? It did. And so now they put that at the point.

Okay, yes. But actually what happened is that from when we were kids in 2011, Saturn, Uranus, conjunction.

Sorry, go ahead.

In 2011, when Neptune went into Pisces, right. They switched to MyPlate, which removed all imagery of food items and just became a plate with a word of the category of. It basically became formless. It was just like, here is a plate with, you should have a glass of milk and this proportion of meat and this proportion of grains and this. It was just a totally different visual visualization. And so I thought it was really funny that Neptune leaving Pisces, that it was like, oh, now we're back to this actual structure, the structured imagery, and then also getting back into this level of detail that had been lost. But that's a whole different aside. But basically, there's been all of these different conversations about food and what to eat. And I think. Exactly. My. Also my perspective is exactly what's become a result of this conversation where you're just sort of like, I can't even visualize the last food pyramid. Like, who actually even references this outside? Like, this is the other thing about sort of the Libra, like, what you're saying. It's like, okay, but outside of this group who's thinking about this? And, like, that is intended to be used by all people. Something like the food pyramid that comes from the government. But I'm just like, who's actually referencing this? Cause people were upset about where things fell in the categories, and then people were really excited about where things fell in the categories. And I think, again, this is where you're seeing if certain groups are winning, certain groups are losing. Both people are. They're all experiencing the same meta influences. So it's just like, what Is the. Whose dream is being realized? Exactly? Whose dream? And so I think that. I'm curious if. So I think that that has created. I think there's a lot of projection and a lot of distortion. And to your point, point about like Maha people Maga people like what will the like perception of groups, the like sort of the projection of specifics onto groups and kind of these results of polarization that have affected how we see other people. I was curious with Uranus in Gemini if this will also mean. If this will also disrupt projection or. That is my hope. Yeah, that is my desire. I'll say my desire is that it will disrupt projection. And what I mean by that, why I think that might be possible, possible is because I think if there is again this sort of like maybe it is more Libran, but like this Gemini awareness of like being able to think about what is you and what is the other in a way that is a mirror but also seeing the things that are aligned versus seeing the things that are not aligned aligned. So like in that twin idea that maybe if you're able to discern, like is this my stuff that's getting projected onto this person or is this them? Right? So like how are you, what are. When are you seeing and when are you like. I think the whole concept of projection is really fascinating. And I just wonder again with like communication and perspective perception and Uranus being disruptive, like will this be an openness to insights that allow you to disrupt your thought patterns, disrupt the patterns of thought around groups, but also around an individual. Like even just I'm thinking about like the kind of classic cycles of conversation. Like you say something activating or like you say something that someone you know can be perceived by certain people as activating and then they respond a specific way. And then you respond a specific way like sort of this like almost this way in which like these ideas have become not like fully scripted but like you can see how the conversation plays out. And so I'm curious if this, if the disruption of thought loops and the sort of ability to tap into like I think higher consciousness and higher self is a complicated thing. It is associated with Uranus. And so I was thinking about this also in the context, context of my limited understanding of parts work, but sort of the concept that parts work is like you have this like central part that is the compassionate, the sort of in integrity part. And then there's all these other parts that have developed out of these different reasons. And then you're trying to like the parts speaking to parts Also felt very Uranus in Gemini to me. But then also like the innovation of how would you be able, if folks are already sort of using some of these modalities, these techniques to try to access whatever that thing is, is. So in the assumption that everyone already has that central part, not that it needs to be downloaded, not that you need to be awakened, but that you already have that core part of self, then how is potentially an interacting in different ways, both with parts and with others, something that could come online that's not, that isn't the same as awakening. It's like uncovering or like engaging with in a new way. So like those things aren't totally offline for people. They're just showing up differently based on other things in the field. So will there be breakthroughs, innovations, disruptions around how we're able to interact with other people's fields? I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah. Almost thinking about Saturn Uranus in Sag. Saturn Uranus in Sag does feel more like this unidirection directional awakening. The concept of awakening fits more with that where there's an assumption of an underlying truth versus Uranus and eventually Saturn conjunct Uranus in Gemini. I'm trying to use a word other than awakening. I feel a little bit of what I was talking about before in defense of the word awakening. Cause I think it can mean a lot of different things. But for the sake of this juxtaposition position, like, feel free to throw in a word if you feel like you have one. Like mini awakenings. It's like many disruptions of thought, many small disruptions of thought rather than one grand awakening. I'm obsessed with disrupting projection as a way of thinking about it. I've had a similar sort of in preparing for this and thinking about Uranus in Gemini, you voice maybe that's more Libra. I just want to say I've had a similar sort of of like, well, wait, what's the Libra version of relating, projecting and what's the Gemini version? And what's the Aquarius version of like intellect in the Gemini version. And in this moment I was just thinking about like that distinction. Like here's maybe an open head perspective on it. It's like the distinction doesn't actually matter that much. The way that I work with modalities and elements is that modalities are just, just parts of an elemental process. Right. And so the line between what's Gemini, what's Libra, what's Aquarius is maybe not always that relevant in this moment. What feels relevant is that there is a really significant cooperation. And not even I like to use cooperation for sextile. There's something even more grand for Trines, a fluid cohesion between the unveiling happening in the intellect via Pluto in Aquarius and the disruption happening in the intellect with Uranus. Uranus in Gemini and the lens. I'm so just stoked about the lens that you're bringing to complete that grand trine through the Libra orientation. And yeah, there was a piece I kind of wanted to circle back to on the horseshoe thing too. It feels on the edge of what I feel comfortable talking about, which usually means I should talk about it. It not. Not always

feel it out.

Like, the projection thing with the horseshoe thing is like, I'll hear disdain for that. Like, I've heard people on the left who, like, I'm. I guess you could say on this horseshoe, I'm as far as you can get left. Like, I've been just like radicalized. Radical, radicalized, radicalize. Left, left, left, left, left. All the way to the point that I do. I like the horseshoe idea because I do feel this shift from the culmination of left. I do feel myself having been through that and then curved the other way. But it's like still at the opposite end of the horseshoe than the people on the right version of it. And like, that's hard to talk about and articulate sometimes because I feel a relatability with people who have made us similar journey to me, who have like, started maybe center, left of center, been through a process of radicalism. You can use a lot of different words to talk about it. But once again, for me, political radicalization, spiritual awakening, healing, deconditioning, integration, like, those have all been the same thing. And for a while they brought me further and further and further into like leftist ideology. And then there was a point at which because of the. Because of individuation, because of differentiation, I had to diverge a little bit from the central culmination of leftist ideology. Ideology, because even that is a mirror of fascism, right? And so, like, I'm really appreciating the horseshoe shape being brought into it, which the last time I related to that was back when I was like, much more invested in politics and in my own, like, sense of identity as a leftist. But I like the shape. Cause it does match my kind of trajectory where coming back to that Saturn Neptune thing, like people on. On the left, friends of mine from my activism days might be, I mean, I'm projecting onto them. I don't know, but they might be looking at me and projecting that I've shifted, like libertarian or right or something, which isn't the experience quite that I'm having. But I am also like, okay, I could see that. And so it's once again, this, like, whatever I identify as, I'm gonna project what I think the opposite is of that onto you. Anytime what you are doesn't match what. What I am. But that is projection. That is not truth. And like, okay, the split thing, as we individuate as we move into this era of individuality, like we're all splitting, splitting, splitting from each other. And if we're still bound up in duality without having shattered that mirror to see that it's not actually a mirror image, it's like a disco ball, then, yeah, we're gonna just start to see everything in antithesis to us at some point. Right. So there's something here that feels very like Quint, essential to Uranus in Gemini, that getting to hear your kind of Libran synthesis of what I was bringing through is really highlighting some of the distinction around these different ways of being in relationship to projection, which is ultimately just a way of being in relationship to our own mind.

And I think there's the. It's like you are on the upper other side technically still of the little horseshoe feet. I really need to study up on horseshoe terminology.

Well, when I went to draw a horseshoe, what I actually drew was the north node, which was symbolism. Also not lost on me. The nodes, polarity. Like, I didn't even know how to draw a horseshoe shape without drawing a node.

Okay. And then also the nodes, polarity.

Polarity.

Just like what you've been talking about with personal view and power view, which is playing out right now between us. It's a spectrum. It is co. Present also in the extremes, there is also an overlap. Like I hear what you're saying about it kind of going past that sort of like, if we think about the widest part of the horseshoe being like peak left or peak right or something, and then it kind of coming back towards a middle. Like, what I really think about the horseshoe a lot is actually, actually the overlap, the unacknowledged overlap at the bottom of the. Yeah, well, like that. You kind of end up in a similar place. You're right. It's not the same place. That's actually.

I just didn't know whether you were talking about the connection part or the empty space part.

The empty space part, I think, is where you like. But. So if you Start at the top part and then let's say I am, you know, left and I want to support my local farmers. I want land to be responsibly farmed. I family businesses. I want fresh food. I want to know where my food comes from. I want to, you know, have my food not have chemicals in it. I want animals to be treated well, et cetera. And then you have, from the right, you're like, well, I believe in family businesses. I want land sovereignty. I want private ownership. I want. But like, I also don't want chemicals in my food. I want like. Like it's like it ends up being. It lands together in regenerative agriculture, like, at the bottom. Like, it's just like. And I think that's something people have said that's also been really interesting in terms of like, you know, like, like anything. The Second Amendment rights and like, like that there's actually. I guess what I'm trying to say too is like, these paradigms in and of themselves are like, false. Like, they are projections of these groups and the need to like, identify with one group or another rather than talk about the actual thing, like, how do we want to grow our food? Could we just talk, talk about that, not have it be like, informed by one side or another? Because it limits, like, what you can consider and then how you can work together. So I think it just does go all the way back to power too. It's just like, well, you're thinking about it this way and it's given to you in this lens and this language. And then you're thinking about it this way in this lens and this language. And then that means you can't work together and you're oppositional, but you're actually trying to add you. There are some shared underpinnings and there are absolutely, like, the wide part, the horseshoe, like, things that are like, actually fully opposite and not reconcilable to a certain degree. Right. But I think there are a lot of things that overlap, but there's no, like, ability to talk about that right now. And like, that's what I think is interesting again, in terms of this, like, how are the little feet of the horseshoe able to like, see the reflection in one another? Like, what twin Gemini mutability could be invited into disrupting the sort of like, Taurus heels dug in the ground, you know, and that's not specific to Uranus,

but yeah, it feels like how I was talking about Chiron in Taurus. And like, we have to come back heal in relationship again. And like, it feels almost, I think the way that I'm gonna say this might hit some people's systems weird, but I'm just gonna go with it anyway. Ways almost utilitarian in nature. Like, when I think about the new keys and like, the old tribal keys, it's like a different utilitarian. It's not 3740 tribal now. It's like 59. What's the other one? Especially 59. The utilization of tribe relationship, connection, of cooperation on the material lens is about, like, fleeting authenticity, truth, connection in the moment. Not about, like, what do we actually believe in that we're trying to build together. I was also thinking about, like, have you seen. I like reference this all the time, and I can never find a resource to actually pull it through. I'll try to find one to link to in the show notes. But are you familiar with the way that in the body graph, there's, like, some circuitry that goes through the solar plexus that's, like, associated with socialism, and then some circuitry that goes through the. Through the spleen that's associated with capitalism?

No, tell me more.

There's whole, like. It feels like what we're talking about. It feels like the horseshoe theory in the body graph. The body graph, but it's like, upside down, and I know it. Like, I can't remember which channel's which. I'm pretty sure 3740 is part of the socialism. I hope I'm not flipping them. I'm pretty sure, yeah. Because capitalism's like, cold. It goes through the spleen. Socialism, like, ideologically, it thinks it's warm.

Right.

It goes through the solar plexus. They both start at the root, so that's like, where they join in the horseshoe. But neither of them make it to the throat. And so I remember the theory behind that that really sat with me when I first learned about this was like, neither can actually be fully manifest. We run into that problem that they can't ever actually fully material materialize. And that feels. Yeah, that feels relevant to this whole conversation with the horseshoe. And I'm thinking too, like, I think this was like, one of the thesises of the convo with Ari, at least as I remember it, where the main idea of that initial planetary deep dive in this series on Mars was like, individuation is the whole thing. This year. There's something around, like, once we are in the seat of our sovereignty through, like. And talking about it linearly in this way kind of reinforces this narrative of, like, one true Awakening, which is like kind of my prerogative a little bit as a sag, but is also just one way of subjectively understanding this. All words are limited, but like one, once we are, when we is maybe a better way of saying it, are like in a seat of sovereignty, like fully in the individuated experience and perspective, then we can look out at something that we understand to be other and we can see that as just another tool. Like me. Othering you is a trick of my mind. Is a facet of my mind. Like trickery used with love and neutrality. That's what Gemini is. It's like trickery and then I don't have to fight it. And in my not fighting it, there's a deeper level of like integration and honesty available. And I see like when I first brought up the horseshoe was like I was thinking about how I've heard people voice like treat it with disdain. Like they are horrified to think that there's any way that the right is a mirror of them, you know. And it's like that, that presence of your horror there, which is something I have also met in myself. So not trying to shame it is currently the thing distracting you from looking at the thing within that will lead to actual equanimity. Act actual, the closest thing to subjective truth and capital T truth that's available. Yeah, like the duplicity. Duplicity as our teacher, I mean as our teacher is maybe true for you and I with Jupiter in Gemini and perhaps a recent experience for folks with the recent Jupiter in Gemini transit. But duplicity as Prometheus, you know, as our freedom giver. Is there a word for that? Yes. Who's the guy that helps us escape? The opposite of a captor. What?

Oh, oh, like as an actual. Like. Yeah.

I was looking for an archetype.

I'm not naming things. We're not naming things. I feel like I understood the Prometheus.

Okay, we'll leave it at that.

Like, that was something that felt very like what will be the form of the fire handed down to humanity that takes us to the. That like allows us the freedom to express ourselves in new ways. And I do feel like there's that grounding in authenticity allows you the like if you. It's the same thing as you were talking about with body and mind. It's like once you have done the work, if you are authentically grounded, if you're grounded in that authenticity, then you can Gemini play with more. The mutability of seeing both sides. They talk about Gemini as two faced and I'VE always found that really fascinating to be like, okay, but sometimes it's like a Gemini shows up and kind of acts one way in one situation and another way in another situation. And that doesn't mean that they're being disingenuous in either situation.

People can go ahead. When you get as an open head person who's very SAG and very Gemini. When I let myself get into that headspace of what if I play it out? What if I play it out out, what if I play it out? There's equal parts, like potential for deep integration and mutation and transformation. By just mentally letting the thing play it out. I don't actually always have to physically go through the experience. And this is like one of those things like before we recorded, you were talking about like what it's like to talk about something that's hard for other people. That's not always hard for me. This is like one of those things where I'm like, you actually don't have have to. You do and you don't have to suffer through it in order to. So that's like one of the gifts of Gemini. One of the gifts of what people overly simplify as being two faced is like Gemini can go in and play the whole thing out without actually having to go there. And yes, without the counterbalance of sag, that can be escapee. But also Gemini has its role to play. And in this next era that's a big part of the role. And you were talking about the playfulness which is kind of, you know, adjacent to what saying I'm talking about here. And I had written down a few minutes ago, like Leo, Gemini, sextile play, right. So it's like once there is a certain level of individuation, embodiment, reckoning with physical reality and the limitations of it, once you maybe reach again, all of this is like overly simplified. Talking about linearly, I'm a sag, whatever, everything's directional for me. But once you get to that part of the horseshoe, all the way over here now you're able to look at the mirror of the other side and you're able to play with it. And it reminds me of this quote that I've been saying lately that I heard Alok say of. I trust you because I trust myself. I've been thinking about it more relationally, right. I have a little bit more of a resilience. I'm still extremely energetically sensitive, ego sensitive. I'm all of those things in many ways more so than from before. I deconditioned But I'm starting to feel a little more resilience where I feel like I can go out into the the into like circumstances where I am likely to be misunderstood. And because I trust myself to go through that experience and come home to myself in ways that I didn't know how to at one point. I literally trust the people I'm with to be who they are and have their subjective experience, even if it's completely different from and wrong according to mine. But my ability to trust them in their my perception of wrongness is based on me relaxing into my subjective sense of what is true for me. Here's my sense of SAG lens on everything. And so yeah, this feels like a lot of where we got to with Uranus in Gemini today. It feels a little bit like what I was starting to feel into with Chiron and Taurus of like yeah, it's like healing the divide in a way by embracing it in another way. And it's like this Leo Gemini sextile orientation of like okay, well if nothing matters leavingif cancer's seen it all before. If we're all caught in a matrix. A lot of how I talk to I don't think how I talk about cancer. Cancer and Leo is universal. But that's how I attune to it is like we hit the walls of the matrix in Cancer and then Leo's like, all right, well let's do it this way. There is that playful orientation in Uranus in Gemini, sextile Jupiter in Leo at the end of this year I think is gonna bring yeah, an element of play. But it's like play. It's kind of like the way I talk about hope motivation or innocence motivation where it's like it's not absent the grit of guilt and desire. It's like that is in here, that is embodied. That is part of it. And now I'm gonna show up for the task of play, which okay, I hope will be the last point I make. But you keep inspiring me. Damn it.

I have more to say too, but it's fine.

Okay, great. Maybe it's the first split episode, maybe it's a two part episode, but that feels like, I think some of what we're talking about also feels like this other part of the shift in 2027 that is the sub eras shifting into the sixth line sub era which is this much more like individually embodied detached way of being in relationship with the world. Sixth color innocence play. Right. Go ahead. I'm just, I'm surrendering.

No, I, I, I'm Just, it's like, it's just hitting what I was thinking also about like, like I feel like what's coming through too is like okay, so one of the sort of like tenors or qualities of Uranus is also this concept of group think. And I think there's like we are over indexed on group think right now. Right. Like so regardless of which side is like leading in the conversation, the group think is like is not actually serving the individual.

It's a distraction.

It's not individual individual. It's not actually representing anyone's individual experience. Right. So like whether you identify any way like that like in or out group think thing, how is that disrupted? And I think what you're talking about in terms of being able to be the individual, like how will we continue to see that like breaking apart of the, the group think and moving towards more of that, that individual experience that I'm thinking will just become more and more supportive in 2027. But what I like about that is also like again that removes the sort of like well if this group wins then we'll see this manifestation and if this group wins we'll see this manifestation. And it's like I think actually what the disruption or what a fruitful disruption could be would be if I, everyone is like able to like you're saying, see the other side but also be so grounded in self, but also actually attune to self instead of attuning to whatever the group frequency is. And I think I, I wanted to bring in, I don't, I feel like I didn't totally land that. But one thing I did want to like, I feel like is related to this though is that it's landed for

me in case that's helpful.

We haven't yet talked about Civil War and we haven't talked about the Civil war, World War II, the Revolutionary War, aligning with Uranus in Gemini, Uranus in Gemini. And I acknowledge that only to say because that was kind of part of the like tenor of stress. Yeah.

And I didn't mean to not talk

about it either, but that was part of the like this is do me because this is like you know, you know. But I think as I was attuning to sort of this Taurus to Gemini shift and like what we've been talking about or like I think that all of these feel like they were at a breaking point of group think and like the revolution was needed. Right. Like all of these things are like the revolution was needed based on what was happening before. And we can make that Specific to Uranus and Taurus, or we can say it's whatever, but like, I think it's longer than that. I don't think it's specific to Uranus. But it's like the Civil War was like there are people believing these different things about how humans should be able to be oppressed for capital creation. And then it was like, how do we disrupt that? How do you begin? Because then I think what happens is all these periods then in Gemini where like the war maybe takes place place during it. Also the beginning of the aftermath is typically included in these. Like World War II is like 1941-49, Uranus was in Gemini. Which means, yes, it was part of the buildup, like tuning into the groupthink of fascism tuning in. Like Nazism tuning into. So there is this, I'm not denying the sort of influence of how it is continuing to stir up whatever that is in terms of. And also, like you said, the sort of opposition, like the sort of way that groupthink can also constellate on the left and being the good, bad, right, wrong, cancellation, cancel culture, et cetera. Like there's an in group, there's an out group. But then it ends in 1949, which means that it also included the ability for people to be like, well, like now we have what next? Like, how are we revolutionizing the way that we saw these oppositional forces? And again, I just feel like that gets back to like what we're talking about in terms of like, like being able to see the other, but not just being able to see like a quote unquote other side, but like people existing outside of these projections of like a groupthink identity that was never actually theirs to begin with. They were just either like attuning to it and participating in it, but that's not who people actually are. So like, what is the way that Gemini can again, like move, move through communication, disrupt projection, continue to be sort of that counterforce. But also like what you were saying with healing. I don't know. And it's not like obviously it's like one of those things where all these periods also then just created new problems and not everything got solved. But it's still like there's something about that Uranus in Gemini, yes, war is scary and not changing is also scary. Being stuck and the power imbalance that is happening right now with the techno feudalism with just since 2020, the distribution of wealth and how much wealth has concentrated with the up, up, up, up, up 11 1.1% like, that is not sustainable. And like that is why like revolutionary energy is continuing to exist in the chat. And like it's like, what's the alternative? And like I, I, I mean, I think, I personally hope that it's not like, you know, war in the traditional ways that we've seen it. I think it will, you know, we've talked about like war of ideology or like different but like I, I, I think and like all the other placements, to Yarall's point too, about prior in the series, where you're talking about like, what would all these look like if there wasn't this, you know, Mercury retrograde through the water signs. These are not the exact same conditions that it has been before. Uranus in Gemini exists within a context, within relationship to planets that are all in a different place than they were in any of these prior eras. So the manifestation might look different, but there's sort of this sense of like the idea exchange, the revolution is needed in this way. And like, yeah, I don't know, it

reminds me of that like Rick, did you ever read Cosmos and Psyche? Are you familiar with that?

I have heard of it. I have not read it myself.

It's Rick Tarnas book largely focused on mundane astrology and the outers and the patterns within the outers together. And he says somewhere near the beginning of it, I'm paraphrasing but history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. And that feels like a lot of what you're bringing through in this moment to me is like, yeah, we've seen Uranus in Gemini and we know that there's a distilled frequency of this that has to do with revolution and war and revolution in the context of war and war in the context of revolution and so on. A distillation, those frequencies are here. I am not shying away at all from that. We might see civil war this year and also every time a new. It's the same way we talk about on an individual level. It's a spiral staircase, right? It's not a line, it's a spiral staircase where the transits are hitting our same chart every time they go around, but the configuration of them is different. And we've assimilated our understanding of self in all these different contexts. So we are changed as it happens. It's the same thing on the scale of collective evolution. Even before you went into that, some of what I was starting to feel is like, okay, we're trying to us wanting to mundane astrologers in general us. I'm Doing the grouping thing right now. Us wanting to apply these esoteric, kind of heady air fire sentiments that are supported by all this water alchemy that's been happening lately. Wanting to apply it to the physical realm is normal because we live here in the physical realm. But we're mostly talking about air and fire transits. You see what I'm saying? So how are those gonna be grabbed and manifested in physical form? We don't know. And also, that's normal, not necessarily the point. The configuration of consciousness through these particular planetary placements in the elements this year has very little to do actually with the physical unfolding. There's a lot happening in the realm of fire, which is transmutation, individuation. And a lot happening in the realm of air, which is intellect, thought, idea. And so for us to be like, let's predict how it's gonna unfold. And to get doomy about that, we don't need to shy from it, but let's stay open to possibility. Gemini. We don't actually know. I texted Lex this morning. I have no fucking idea how this conversation is gonna go. And that's part of what makes me feel excited about it. That's sort of how I'm looking to Uranus in Gemini. And I'm not trying to shy away because to my point about Gemini, it's able to play all the possibilities through. And there's some version of healing and integration available just through imagination, them all. Like, that's how I'm looking at like, yeah, Civil War can happen this year. It could happen. It's not outside the realm of possibility. Not much is. How does that make me feel? Can I be with that?

Well, and I think to your point, it's like, it's not about whether or not it actually happens, you know, like, that's like. It's. The consideration is like. I think it is more about the fire and air dynamics of like, what will that be in terms of transmutation? Like, how. Again, like, why. Why is this. This is the bridge. Bridge to. This is the bridge. So it's like, how is that gonna interplay with, like, how the material form and all the other things are being contended with at the same time, right? Like, it's not even like it'll be physically manifest. It's more like. But like the exchange, like that energetic exchange, the individual transformations, the awakening that we're seeing. Seeing happening with individuals that will shape what it's. It's like. Yeah, like, you're just. You're right. It's like, not about it, actually.

Badway and I were reading Parable of the Sower this morning.

Some light. Some light topical reading.

We were like. We found ourselves with an hour where the baby was sleeping and neither of us were preoccupied. So we were like, let's get back to that book we were reading together months ago. And in the book, you read it, I'm assuming from your. Yeah. She dates the sections and she's in 2026 where we're reading, which is just really meta and interesting and it's dystopian. Right. And Badway and I were reflecting on how at a distilled level, it is not different from what's actually playing out in 2026. Like, what do they call them? Like, corporation cities or corporate cities or something? Like, it's not different. Mass wealth and equity. And on a physically manifest day to day what my life looks like level, it doesn't look anything like that. And that's interesting. I've brought this up in the series as well. This feeling of, like, okay, the world is on fire. And that seems to be getting more and more true. But somehow I, inside of this world, not running away from this world and the truth of the harsh realities of it, am somehow under a certain light, through a certain metric system, thriving under another light, through another metric system, not thriving, but under the one that I most tend to look through. And I'm learning to invest more into thriving. Like, my life is beautiful. I have, like, beautiful connections. I have what I need. I feel a deep sense of purpose. I'm so at peace. Not all the time, especially not this last season, but generally. Generally speaking. And yet more in debt than ever, and yet less secure according to conventional standards than ever. And this just feels so significant to me and so important. And so what we're talking about, we were talking about this is like, I'm not ready. This is gonna be. I can feel that this is gonna be something that comes more into clarity and more into future conversations. But this idea that debt's not real, that money's not real, if we're still trying to. We're in this intersection between eras right now. And we can choose. Maybe we have some agency, some agility is maybe a better word than agency. Gemini word to kind of tiptoe in and out over this overlap. And we don't get to not have either. Cross of planning does still have its teeth in us in a certain extent and always will. But we. We have the support of the background frequency shifting into sleeping Phoenix now, too. We have the Support of, like, individual awakening being the point. And so I. I get to move through the apocalypse, the collapse, with the support of this other thing. And I'm not denying it. And I'm. I'm. But. But in surrendering to it, but also acknowledging the power that it does and does not have over me and my individual life and my local experience, there is, like, agility in that. And this is so interesting because it's one of those times where I, like, feel the truth of what I'm saying. It feels like all these things that I've been in process with coalescing into this thing that feels so true and relevant and the words are failing me because the understanding is not that steeped yet, because it's like what I'm in right now, but it feels so fucking iridescent Gemini time in a way that I, like, kind of sensed prior to this conversation, but that I feel like is really unlocking for me based on a lot of our exchange today. Like, we have the support of this whole other background frequency that. That is like the game, the play, the essential ethereal. We have the support of that while we're also dealing with the physical ramifications of having reached the end point of cross of Maya cross of planning, which literally the plan was endings increased to the point of endings. We have to deal with that, but we're not in it alone. We also have this other thing and Uranus in Gemini, the agenda, ability to surf, balance, dance in both of those realms. Yeah,

the both and the surfing the personal experience, the collective collapse. Like surfing the personal and the collective frequencies. Like, you can tune into both, but

it's like we have.

But there's an adjustment, fragility. And then I think. Which did you say is the agency axis?

I sometimes talk about Virgo, Pisces as agency, but I'm seeing it develop also into Leo Aquarius as we also surf these two nodal eras.

I feel like that's the big thing is, yes, there's the agility. But then the agency spectrum is so varied in terms of the individual ability. Ability to attune or not to the collective. Right. Like the sort of individual risk or like, who's getting this sort of, like, canary in the. Like, who is being affected directly by collapse versus not. I think there's like a. Yeah, I think that that is a whole dynamic of it. I. I definitely hear what you're. Like what you're saying is very true. And I think that's actually what's been sort of like deeply disorienting is the like, spectrum of experience that people are having in this moment, but also at all moments. Like, it's just sort of like it does feel like there's this collective thing we are participating in, but it also is so in individually expressed. And there's like, you know, we like work in the supply chain. Like, there are days where like, we don't like, we are still able to bring in food from all these different parts of the country. But then there's like the ice storm in Georgia and Florida and we like can't physically move the food up here and are like disrupted. And it's like, why is that ice storm happening? Like, there are like weather. Weather changes. And again, that's always a part of agriculture. But just as an example of like that climate shift, the ability to continue to grow food is starting. It does on some days immediately impact our actual shipping of food to a chef. But then on other days it. There's no connection to that broader thing because the food arrives. We see it. It's like, you know, it's like going to a grocery store, but you're like, well, the food's here, so like it. And it's. So you're, you're. There's like a. I don't know, like sometimes I feel like there. The agency to participate in the way that it is showing up and, and being like, this is a thing that is happening to everyone but not to you today versus the like, you know, yeah, like being in Chicago and having people, you know, having ice on the street and being like, how is this impacting people's experience of going out to their grocery store just to like, talk to circle. It's like, you know, in the risk of being kidnapped versus not or detained versus not. And I'm not trying to like, I think I'm not really talking.

No, it's like it's privilege.

I'm really trying to talk more about like, no, I. That it's woven back circumstantial privilege in a less.

In a less loaded way. Like, not in a morality way, like privilege in an actual like sovereignty, agency safety, security in the moment way, which is much more we're going into than the clinging to externalized senses of ongoing continuity security way. I think perhaps this is gearing us towards finality possibly. But all of that had me thinking back to a lot of what we were talking about when we first started talking about this transition of Uranus from Taurus to Gemini. And I think I brought up the concept of natural guilt somewhere earlier in this series. But there's the version of me that thinks I have to acknowledge my privilege and my access and my security from a very distorted not self place to try to prove in my case undefined Ajna. Ultimately what I'm trying to prove is my morality and my correctness ethically. And then there's a version of me that when I'm clear and relieved from the pressure of that distortion and relaxed into the inherent goodness that contains flaw, that contains perfection of my nature as an individual vessel of the whole, there's still a natural sense of responsibility that I have to reducing harm and supporting the other. And I think for me, I think I have always known this. I think this is our 2551 to an extent. I think it's a defined ego thing to an extent. It's exalted Aries sun. You know, like I've always had some sense of access to this sense of knowing of my and everyone's inherent worth. Jupiter in Leo, south node in Leo this year. Saturn and Neptune in Aries this year. And when I relax back into that and I see the lies of my distorted mind tricking me into thinking, thinking that I have some kind of responsibility, I owe something for the good of the collective or the good of the other. Aquarius Libra that requires me to compromise the truth of my own form and the resource and capacity of my own form. That's actually like exploitation, that's actually extraction. That's not true generosity. To quote something that, not to quote, but to pull from something that Caitlin brought in to episode three, I think or two of quality time, which was sourced from a workshop on Jupiter with Diana Rose Harper, everybody get their credit. Leo, if you're giving of something you don't have an abundance to give of. That's extraction, exploitation, that's not generosity. So this theme of natural guilt that I first read about in a Seth book, the nature of personal reality really sat with me. And I read about that early in my experiment and earlier in Uranus in Taurus. And that to me is like Uranus in Taurus being a foundation for this. Uranus in Gemini, like the agility to go. Not relevant for me, not relevant for me right now. That is not synonymous with a denial of the harm that someone else or the loss or the lack of access that someone else is to able experiencing. It's just helping me to put me in a position that is surrendered to the truth of the limitation of time and space and a limitation of this illusion of separation. Like I have to honor my individual vessel and my body's resource capacity in the moment is the thing that shows me that and all it's not, it's not bypassing. Like I think I heard my friend Ari say somewhere once. Like, bypassing is not actually, actually possible, right? Like it's not actually possible. Like the thing will work itself out whether we're conscious of it, tuned into it or not. And maybe we're not entirely in control of that. That's why I think some of this, like the no choice piece of human design that is really activating and triggering for some people and like, has been activating to certain parts of me. Like, ultimately is extremely liberating for me because it helps me relax into what I'm experiencing, experiencing now. It helps me trust that I only need to digest and metabolize what's here for me right now. And that that puts me in a position to be actually most resourced, to be able to be a generous contributor to the constellation of the whole as myself. Right? So this is like very SAG rising, positive spin sermon. But this is like my SAG and Aries stuff in soft aspect in Sextile Trine to the Aquarius transit, the Pluto transit, the. Sorry, that's the same thing. The Aquarius transit, the Pluto in Aquarius transit, the Uranus in Gemini transit, the nodes coming up in Leo in Aquarius. And like anytime we're dealing with oppositions which we have so much of, like I have this SAG Gemini opposition in my chart. You have the Aries Libra opposition in your chart. We as a collective are going to be dealing so much with the Leo Aquarius opposition this year. Oppositions are just showing us how to integrate, assimilate, transcend the perception of binary. And so this me or social me or relational that is huge right now. And Chiron in Aries has been really priming us for that. And now most of the planets are in those axes. And that is a huge, huge part of what the curriculum is about in this next bit of time. So yeah, it's like a yes. And it's like what you're bringing in there is where Libra holds it down, right? And where Aquarius kind of holds it down, I would say. And then all the fire signs are like, yes, anding right. Like Aries is a reflection of Libra. Parts of a whole. Part, parts of a whole. And like the 3740, our design nodes, the thing falling away from the background frequency, it's the only channel in the Rave New Year chart. So our relationship to parts of A whole is very online this year as well.

Yeah, I think the, the full

unraveling

of what I think can be interpreted as just like one woven rope is what needs to continue to happen. Like what you just did is bringing a level of nuance to something that people often are I think getting stuck in like there's or the push pull they get like stuck in one side of it and it's like. But really what we need to do is actually more deeply consider this entire thing. Like you know, like it's not about. Did you just think about yourself or are you accounting for every single other person's experience at any given time? It's about like this is not an ant. This is not something anyone is ever going to be able to. Like there is no perfect way to do that. And I think you're regrounding in like the individual or like you have have

to align to yourself or are those the same? Are those the same things? That's the voice that came through my head and that is my orientation and that is lilo Aquarius axis. Are we talking about the sun, an individual star? Are we talking about the whole constellation? You cannot have one without the other, actually. And I think that's where I have found a sense of power and relaxation and agency and trust and faith and peace.

Peace.

And every feeling that feels good in my body. That includes not repressing anything. It comes from this sense that taking care of me is taking care of the entire constellation. And are there ways that that gets distorted? Yes. And will we see that sentiment distorted with Neptune in Aries, with Jupiter in Leo, like with Pluto in Aquarius? Yes. And nobody can tell you how to move through that in a way that acknowledges but doesn't embrace the distortion except for your body. That's another phrase that was coming in for me a lot on the way to this convo with you over the last several days and weeks is like there's something about Gemini that allows us to not fully embrace or not fully repress any thought. And that middle way, right, that middle way that shrines your libra ascendant and Libra moon, like that's the medicine we don't need to run away from, but we also don't need to cling to any particular way of thinking.

And I think it goes back to what you were saying too about like that belief in the inherent worth of all people. Like the sort of like piscian like way that I also deeply feel the like, like the unconditional love, the like we are all actually the Same thing. But there's no. You can't really, like, work with that. That in the full. You need the Virgo digesting, like you're saying, digesting the parts of what that really means and the back and forth of that and that. It's a. Both. And again, it's not in opposition, but I think you can sort of like vacillate between the extremes. And I think what the. I think one thing that stands out to me is this ongoing conversation as well, about 2027 in terms of the shift towards all of the. The individual channels. So, like the shift away from a lot of the collective tribal that was at play and then more towards the individual. And I think. I think there would be a way that someone could hear that and be. And I think this is happening in other ways too with like Pluto in Aquarius and things like that being like, well, if the system collapses, if we don't have the system, then how will we take care of the xyz? If we don't have the tribal bond, like, if we aren't taking care of each other, then will the XYZ get worse? Worse, right. Will things get. Will we have more pollution? Will we have more X? But it's like. Because I think there's no.

Yes. And.

Well, and I think there's. This is like. This is the. I think what we're talking about is the consideration that's going to be really important to like, begin to contend with what it will mean to be in. Yeah.

Like a less,

you know, community tribal, like more of an individually. Like, exactly what you're saying about being like, by taking care of myself, I am actually. How is that. That actually is a both and of taking care of the all. But there's like a frame in which that is like, divorced from the way the structures have looked. But I think that's like, that's what is gonna be happening more and more. And it's already happening. So it's. It's like, how are. How will that actually. Again, like, how will people be thinking about that? Metabolizing that, like, moving more into that without feeling like moving beyond. Like, allowing the both. And so that they're not clinging to your point, not clinging to. Well, we have to preserve the old structure because otherwise how will I have, you know, water in my city? Like, I need this infrastructure. But it's like, if you cling too hard to one thing, then you, like, it needs to be the sort of. Like, you can't think beyond how you might continue to get water in A different way. If you're too. If you're like so heavily invested in clinging to that being, the way that you relate to how water appears for you. Do you know what I mean? So it's like there's like the lack of attachment to the things and being able to play with the ideas of truly innovative. I think I'm getting back to your analysis a little bit here. Like allowing the innovation downloads, allowing the strokes of brilliance, allowing yourself to think differently than you have thought ever before about a thing.

It's like.

And that. That in you.

Possibility, Revolution.

Yes.

Like the possibility for innovation. And we don't get like. I remember putting the words together once. This is not an original Kelsey thought, but I'm remembering the moment that I put these words together that was like, always feel closest to God after I let myself fall apart. Right. Like there's this feeling. I mean, I think emotionals maybe know this. There's like a familiarity of that because it feels not entirely the same thing as, but kind of similar to the feeling of the emotional wave. Like I can be at this, like, really heavy low part and I'm resisting it. And I'm resisting it. And then finally there's something in the mirror image of my internal and external reality. I don't always know chicken or the egg, which it is, but there's something that resources my body to able to let the wave crash. And then there's this openness that comes from that possibility. And I think that's what we're talking about. It's like, we're not. The task is not gonna be to completely abandon any sense of structure or responsibility. The task is. And like, I'm getting lost. The task is to acknowledge where there has been a bracing, a resisting, where some, like, fear, outdated fear to come back to the role that the nervous system, the body and the mind play in the nervous system. There's been some outdated fear that our body's been holding on to, that the mind, the agility of the mind, the revolution of the elasticity of the mind can allow for the body to come into a different way of being in relationship with some of these themes. And then the freedom in the crowd cracks of what has broken. Right? Like, how can it come back together in a way that feels more resourceful, that feels less extractive. Because the extraction that we see, the power disparity, the wealth disparity, the extraction that we see on a collective level is a collective mirror of the way that we treat our own individual bodies. We are complicit in extraction on a collective level. The same way that we are complicit in the extraction of our individual. Individual bodies.

Mm. And I think with regard to the nervous system not being done, what I'm hearing, what. What like, came forward for me and what you were describing about being able to like, like the transmutation of that, like, it is just like this collective call towards, like the collective nervous system reorientation. I think healing is a little different. Bit of a over, I think a full healing. But like in the idea of like, if you have a nervous system state and then you work with whatever is the orig. Like that old. Like you were saying, the old script, the old information, whatever originally landed that trauma in your body, whatever brings up that constant replay in the nervous system. But then people are working with modalities such that they can shift from that level. Right. Like, you can change how that feels. Or. Or there's like a. There's a way to work with it and then to arrive in a different place. And so how are we all collectively Uranus nervous system shock. Gemini gonna be like, working with again, maybe healing is even too strong of a word, but literally just being open to changing by not being fixed into this one nervous system pattern and being like, we can experience this a different. And like, then that will lead to the next thing we can experience and like. Or the next thing we want to heal.

Remix.

Yeah.

Yeah. Compost. Like, we're not. It's not ever over, but we can comp. We can remix. We can take it apart and put it back together.

And when we do that at an individual level, that is doing it at the collective level and vice versa. Like, there's a. It's a. Both hand.

Yeah. Wow. Cool. Okay. Can you come back from there and come to here? It always like, when I get to these places with people, it feels annoying and like silly and desire transfery for me to then be like, okay, how can people find you? But that's probably something I'm going to be working through in this next period of time. That's something I need to take apart and put back together. So, that being said, what do you want to let people know how to find you on this plane? They just connected to you telepathically and on many different realms. But on the earth plane, per cross of planning for skill trade, how can people find you?

Do I exist in the physical plane after this conversation.

In a remixed version, you do, Yes.

I am on Instagram at Subtle Influence and I have. Am building into like a. There will be sort of like a basic website as well that will be accessible from that main point and I think a substack as well that are kind of like incubation dating. Just dating. So that would be the place to find me to find all those other

things long term at subtle influence on Instagram.

Yes.

Was I. Do you think we're done?

Right?

I might question. I always question my abrupt manifester. That felt like we rounded a comment.

I know. And like there's just. It's. It's so beautiful. What. What did come through.

Yeah. That was amazing. And once again just feeling smitten by and enchanted by but in a pretty practical way. Saturn, Neptune. Of just the timing of things because yeah, there was a part of me that felt like Uranus and Gemini needed to be early, but it's really coming in near the end to tie a lot of loose threads together. And loose threads feels like a lot of what we talked about. It kind of felt like it was this invisible, foggy, erratic, elusive energy that was in all the other conversations. And this one we got to really land into that erratic, disruptive, unsettling energy that is somehow chaotic. Disruptive, unsettling. But also also the key to a resettling that will feel completely different than what we know of as settling now, but also free. Okay, here we go. I'm back. Basically this conversation felt like all the conversations so far have really felt like they've invoked the transits we're talking about. And yeah, I think a lot of the things I felt a lot of things and I feel excited about with a little bit more mental comprehens tension of what Uranus and Gemini may bring. So thank you, Lex.

Thank you.

Any last words? I don't know how to stop.

I think we can probably just stop, Sam.