At my big age, right? 28. I'm still a little girl looking for her. So that when I think about my wedding, it was a wonderful wedding. Enjoyed it. But I still remember being the little girl at my big age, looking for her mama to show up.

And she didn't even come. That is heartbreaking. Absolutely

devastating. Absolutely. Have you spoken to her since the day of the wedding?

You are listening to the Reconnection Rescue Podcast for mothers and daughters with your host, Brittney Scott. A podcast where we process all things mother daughter relationships and the direct effect it has on the relationships we hold as adults.

Hey, it's BBrittney welcome back to another episode of the podcast. I'm here today with another interview and we're interviewing Crystal R. Curry. She is a licensed clinician and the founder of Compass Life Skills in Counseling. Crystal does individual therapy, holds a conference each year, she has a membership, and I believe she holds a retreat. Crystal is a thought leader in the field of trauma and her research and therapy experience spans over a decade. When Crystal isn't working, she's spending time with her husband, Donald, and her children, Elena and Andrew. Okay, and we are here with Crystal. I'm so excited. She said yes to sharing her story with me and with you. My first question, what was the event or the experience that you had that helped you make the decision to be estranged?

Oh, okay. Every girl grows up, most girls grow up, thinking about how they're going to be as an adult, right? And part of being an adult for most girls is getting married. So what your husband will be like, whatever your wedding will be like, the wedding dress, what it will feel like, what it looked like. And so every sense, like, I can remember I've dreamt of that day. And considering the fact that my parents were 13 and 14 years old, when they conceived me, I've had this dream of this fantasy that I used to use to escape from my own childhood trauma. Right. And my experiences. It's. So when it came time for me to become, I got engaged and at a time that I was engaged, me and my mother weren't on the best of the speaking terms, but deal in the mode of trying. I was still in the mode of maybe she can change. Maybe things will get better. I'm an adult. I don't really need anything from her. Maybe we can just have a really nice adult relationship. And so the time came, I got engaged and I told my mom, she seemed really excited and she was like, okay, I want to be responsible for buying your wedding dress and paying for the flowers. I was so excited. This was so cool. Absolutely amazing. And I was, this is when say yes to the dress was really big. And so I was planning my own say yes to the dressing van and I had invited people that were really important to me. And I had already went to go see what kind of dresses that I want. And I had narrowed it down to 30. So excited. It's two weeks before this, my say yes to the dress event. And I realized I haven't talked to my mom. And so I started calling her and it's two weeks before and I'm calling and I'm texting and I'm not getting anything. No response, no answer. This is very normal. Okay, but in my mind, this is like really important to me. Like you only get one time, right. To be married and this is it. I'm the first person in my family to be married, right. To do it the right quote, unquote, right way. Right. Of course, this time will be different and I'm calling and I'm calling. And we go by, and then we're the week of the, say yes to the dress event. Okay. I'm calling. I'm texting nothing. Say yes to the dress event happens on a Saturday. I call her on that Friday, and I at this point, I'm completely broken and I call her and she answers and she says, what do you want? Now you say, yes, the dress thing is tomorrow. And are you still going to pay for my wedding dress? Because I have to pay that day. And are you still coming? And she just flicks off, flicks off, starts fussing and cussing me out and completely turns the situation on to me and how she has so much stuff going on. And I've been calling her back to back just for that and it's really not that important And in that moment, I was like, this is it i'm done And I hung up the phone Completely heartbroken did the say yes to the dress event tried to put on a great face gray face but I had to do other things because I couldn't afford the dress that I picked out and Even after that, I still sent her a wedding invitation and she did not show to my wedding You The say yes to the, say yes to the dress event was the straw of the straw that broke the camel's back. But then not coming to my wedding was the absolute finale for me. She didn't even go. She did not even come. And my, at my big age, right, 28, I'm still a little girl looking for her.

I don't, I think we always are, but yeah.

So that when I think about my wedding, it was a wonderful wedding, enjoyed it. But I still remember being the little girl at my big age, looking for her mama to show up.

And she didn't even come. She didn't come. That is heartbreaking.

Absolutely

devastating. Absolutely. Have you spoken to her since the day of the wedding? Okay. Has there been any?

Yeah. So weird, but you know, on par for like moms who just are really, you know, are really emotionally mature, which she is, but that's because she got pregnant at. 13 years old, right? 13. Yeah. Had a baby at 14. We grew up together and there was a lot of life that she missed and a lot of life opportunities of learning that she missed because she was in survival mode. But I had my son in 2015 and I had not talked to my mom. My wedding was, I think it was 2014. I had my son in 2000 and 15,016. I'm coming. From somewhere on a random Saturday and there is a box in front of my door And I'm like, okay And I take the box in the house and I look on the box like the label and it's from her and it's filled with like baby things clothes and shoes and pampers and white And I had no idea how she got my address. I have no idea how she knew that I was pregnant and had a baby. Have a suspicion about maybe who told her how she found out. But that started a new catalyst. I said, okay, maybe she's trying, right? Maybe things have changed. And I reached out to her, thanked her. Probably a couple of months went by, went to her home for Thanksgiving. Things were fine. We would talk every so often, like once or twice a year, up until three years ago, where she promised to purchase. She's like, Oh, let me buy your kids school clothes. Let me do that. I want that. That happened. She said that and that's been missing. Was that like a flashback? Let me buy your wedding dress. Let me buy the school clothes. It is literally the pattern of it and it's never me offering or asking, it's always her offering. But I really think what happens is she makes a commitment and she really wants to, however, then she's unable to, and instead of saying, I am unable to do this. She just gets missing. However, it is me being left, right? With another broken promise and having to fit the situation that I've depended on you to come through with. And so I said, I'm not going to reinitiate this because every time we never talk about what all of what you've done, right? I just tried to pick up where we left off. And if it comes up, I'll talk about it. But I'm just not willing to do that anymore.

Yeah. So she doesn't initiate. Is there any imps from her? There's nothing.

And for example, I've had my same phone number since I was 16. I am 39.

Yeah. If you want it to,

there's not

a lot of avenues she'd have to go down to find you. It's pretty easy.

And I'm still in contact with several of my family members and they know where I live and they know. I didn't get in contact with me and I didn't get in contact with my husband. So,

man,

that's so sad. It is sad. It's very heartbreaking. It's something that I've really had to be intentional on one healing from to being gracious with myself, right? Because there's never a time where a daughter does not need her mother. Right. Wedding. I have two kids now trying to raise kids and just different parts of my life where I've accomplished great things. And it's always a thought of, it will be great to be able to call my mom or share this with her. But having the understanding that, Hey, Chris, it's okay for you to have those sad feelings when you can't, but it's also okay to have an understanding that if she wanted to, she would, and so I don't have to take on that responsibility. Of being a child, an adult child who is forcing a parent to be an active participant in my life,

right? I see so many stories of women saying they're maybe estranged from their mom or they desire to be, but that their mom is a big part of their children's lives. Yeah, and I often wonder, like, that dynamic has to be painful, but that's not even your story. She sent one box of baby stuff, but it wasn't even like she tried to be a part of her grandchildren's life.

Yeah, I, for me, for me, because, and this is just my thought process, right? Because my children are an extension of me. Like, I would love her to have a relationship with them, but you don't get to reject me and engage with them, right? That's not a dynamic that I want to be a part of. Of course, if they get older and you still want a relationship with them, you are more than welcome to. But, My kids are five and seven, so they don't drive, they don't have a phone, so any communication or interaction with them, it has to go through me, right? And I don't want you to not want me, but also want them, but need me to be close to them, if that makes sense.

I completely agree. In my mind, you can't have the privilege of being a grandparent while taking no responsibility of being a parent.

Right. Agreed. Like you

you just can't do

that. Mm hmm.

What were the dynamics like growing up? So your mom was 13 She got pregnant with you had you at 14? I'm assuming you guys lived with your grandmother tell me that what was the dynamics like because

Baby, the dynamics was very interesting. So when she got pregnant her and my dad were neighbors. They lived across the street from each other When both of their families were going through their own stuff. So her getting pregnant with me added a whole dynamic that nobody was prepared for. But in fact, they sent her to. A group home for pregnant teenagers about three hours away. And so she was here and she gave birth to me away from her family and brought me back to our hometown. And from there, I bounced around to different people. Until she was 18 and she was able to get her own place. And then she was able when I was around five to come back and get me. And then I lived with her and she had a live in boyfriend for a while. She had about two live in boyfriends, one temporary boyfriend in between, but the house, the growing up, I just seen and was exposed to things that. I should have not because she was growing up too, honestly, just trying to figure out she didn't have any support. She lived in the same city as her family and there was not much support there either because they didn't have the ability to support her. So it was pretty traumatic and I didn't realize how traumatic it was until I became an adult and I began to repeat some of the old, some of the patterns that I saw.

Yeah. Okay. So you were able to see through your own behavior that should not have been occurring. Yeah. Oh, this is horrible, but I don't know how

to stop. Yeah. Are you comfortable saying what some of those were? Yeah. Oh, my relationships were absolutely horrible. Like romantic relationships. I went to cause when I was 17. My first boyfriend in college was 37. So a 70 year old. Yeah. We're 37 year old. Okay. Yes. And it was, and then stopped dating him. And then I was getting, I was in relationships where I dated. Projects like people who needed to be built and didn't have much. And so I was ignoring the red flags, right? I think, and I can turn red flags, green and all of that stuff. And then not really good with money and then being an overworker and an overachiever and still being just chronically unhappy, those were just a lot of the patterns that I had. And then I got married. And that's when I realized how extremely dysfunctional I was. That was a very, that was a very clear turning point in my life.

Yeah. So what'd you do?

Oh, it went to think. It all in my head. Because I was just so dysfunctional, very controlling, operating out of fear. My attachment style was very disorganized. It was like, I love you so much, please don't leave me. I want you close, but don't get too close. All of that.

And just

very argumentative, very combative. And my husband sat me down and was like, Okay, either you go to therapy or we're getting a divorce. There is no in between. Okay, so

you had not that you had to you could have said, okay, bye, but You make the decision that to save your marriage

you would go Yeah, and hear me when he said you need to go to therapy understand that I didn't think I needed therapy at all If it comes to that Once the ultimatum hits the table, that's usually Yeah, and I remember I was like, okay if you to save my marriage i'm gonna go I remember calling the counseling office You I was so controlling, right? I knew it all. I remember calling the counseling office and I said, this is the type of therapist that I need. And I laid out the type of therapist that I needed. I laid out what I thought that I needed to work on. And I'm sure that receptionist was like, okay. And then I met with my therapist the first day and it all, she helped me see me and how broken I was and how lost I was and how I was a very good person. But just really wanted to be loved, but was afraid of being loved because how much love had hurt me and how much me wanting to be loved had not gotten me anywhere. I'm

curious, what kind of therapist did you need?

I said, I need a direct, upfront therapist. Therapist that deals with trauma, but does not have her own trauma. I want her to be white because I don't want her to judge me or think that she knows much about me. What did I say? I just need to learn how to communicate. I just need to learn how to manage my emotion. And that was pretty much the gist of it.

Okay. So then you go into your first sessions with a therapist ever. Yes. Yeah. And you get a good one who helps you to actually see yourself and able to reflect you back to you in a way that you could actually digest it. Not in a way that felt judgmental, not in a way that felt like ugly, but you could actually take it in and accept it.

Yes. Yes. She's amazing.

Is she still your therapist?

Yes. I love that. She's amazing. Yeah. And she looked at me after I told her everything, and she, I will never forget, she said, you are the calmest, angriest person I have ever met. You are so angry, and I just cried, because I was so angry, right? Like, me being confrontational and lashing out at my husband was all anger, right? And the anger was because I was just so mad that I was so broken and there was nothing that I could do about

it. Yeah.

Hey, Brittney here. I am interjecting for a second. Let's chat. What Crystal has described so far in her experience with her mother and her dating life is abandonment. She experienced being abandoned by her mom. She would show up, make these grand promises. And then when she couldn't follow through on the promise, she disappeared. Crystal also talked about dating people who were projects for her. I believe that with the fear of abandonment and having your own emotional needs unmet, it's easier to focus on a partner that needs your help, that needs your support, that needs you to build them up because of two things. The I. D. in your head is that. They're not going to leave because you're doing all of this for them. You're, you're doing too much for them, for them to leave. And then the other part is when you're so focused on them, you don't have to focus on yourself. You're neglecting your own mental health or the things that you need to work on. Because you're putting all your focus and energy on the project, on building this person up to be the best person that you believe they can be. Sometimes it's easier to just ignore what you have going on inside of your own heart and mind. Fear of abandonment can look a lot of ways. It can show up as people pleasing, it can show up as somebody who's very insecure, who attaches to people very quickly and does whatever they can to not lose them, but also can sometimes be the opposite. Where you won't let yourself attach to people because you already expect to lose them. So you just move on quickly. All of your relationships seem very surface level and shallow, and you're quick to just move on because you already have that fear that people are going to leave you. And fear of a abandonment can also show up as repressed anger, um, and control issues, which may be part of what Crystal experienced. All right, back to the interview. Okay. So with your mom, before you made the decision to be estranged and rightfully so, and then it's like, she comes back and you try again and then still the exact same behavior when you were younger, did you make any attempts, um, to help to change the relationship or get her to see that you were hurting or angry? Oh yeah. That's why I'm a

reformed people, please. Right. All people can start out as parent pleasers. So I really, As a child, just try to do what I felt would please her, what I felt would make her see me, make her happy. There was this underlining desire for her to not feel like keeping me was a mistake. Say that again. There was this underlining desire to get her to believe that keeping me was not a mistake. Okay. I'm following. Okay. So I tried to be a good girl in a scene, right? I tried to make things easy for her. I was cooking, I was cooking full course meals. I was cleaning. I have a baby sister. I was getting her dressed and ready for daycare before I was going to school. I was trying to be, you know, seen, not heard good grades, not getting any trouble, you know, didn't really deal with boys. I tried to do all of those things. Just to make it easier because I just felt like I was such a burden. So I was trying to be less of a burden. During that time

for a child that is a major undertaking so much of an undertaking so much Emotionally

physically like that's a lot to carry. Oh, it's so much to carry and I carried it Until you know that breaking point

Yeah.

Mm hmm.

Did she ever see you? Was there ever any kind of acknowledgment for what you were doing?

Yeah, I would say in big ways. So graduating high school, graduating college, that's it.

Other than those two milestones?

No, not really. Everything else was like, this is what you're supposed to do.

Got it.

Like you're supposed to get good grade. You're supposed to help out in the house. This is what you, if you weren't just helping out. I was coping. Right.

Did your mom ever get married? Was your wedding the first time that she ever disappeared like that on you or had that been happening before?

So Disappear, yes. But that was because I wasn't in her house. Usually it would just be the silent treatment. So. Because we didn't live in the same house, the silent treatment became disappearance, if that makes sense. God, it does.

Yes, it does. Okay, so you experienced a silent treatment or that same kind of behavior well before that, the wedding dress issue. Yeah. What, what caused that? What were the, not that anything a child does should ever cause silent treatment. That's not okay. That's abusive. But what were like the events that would start that?

Yeah. If I did something that was unfavorable, I, I felt like there was always like this boundary to not cross and these boundaries to stay within. And that was the good girl. And if I didn't think to step out of that, then that's what. So it became, if I. Use my voice, state of my opinion, right? Identify with something that was not consistent with what she thought that I should be doing or expressing. That would happen to me. How long would these last? It would depend. So it would be silent treatment, that could be like a day or two. Or it could be like, sleepover. Right? In middle school, I remember this clearly. There was a sleepover in middle school, all my friends were going to my friend's house. I was really excited to go. It was supposed to be a Friday to that Saturday. I, for example, I don't remember what I did, but I didn't do something to her liking or I stepped outside the bounds and she was like, see, that's why I did that test. You're not going to the sleepover. So it would be that kind of stuff.

So she probably already had in her mind, you weren't going. Yes. But she tries to help you to do something she doesn't want you to do or to act in a way that she could then use against you.

Yes. Which I'm sure felt isolating. Very isolating and felt it was a feeling of never feeling like I could win. Or feeling like anything was good enough.

There's been just throughout my career, a few parents that I've had to talk to about isolating their children from their friends. I'm like, you're causing a lot of like extra damage on top of what you're doing yourself, but isolation from friends is very damaging. Yes, it is. Friendships are part of a huge part of development and to

that.

Now, not to say you don't discipline them, of course you do,

but There are more ways. Yes. You teach what you want to teach without isolating. Yeah.

Okay. So you're this adult who is rightfully angry. Your therapist describes as like a quiet, angry person. Your husband tells you you've got to go to therapy.

Yes.

Were there any other relationships in your life that Was there anyone else in your life that was able to point out your behavior other than your husband?

Um, we have a we have some amazing people in our life like other adults in our life who we confide in And he was telling them about me and they were saying okay Like you need you need to go ahead and go and so I was able to receive it Much better from them than him because I was like, okay No, I'm not the problem, that's where you live from, right? If I do need to go, it's only for these little bitty things, right? But you And so I've never had, like, anger towards anyone else, but my husband is the closest person to me, right? Right. So he's the one that knows my great things and things I need to work towards. But when other people were coming to me that he confided in and said, Hey. You need to go to theater. I said, I'll go. I'll do it. If y'all want me to, okay.

So what, if anything, if you can think back or you can even answer like today or do both, what did you need or what do you need from your mom that you did not get? What would have made the relationship even a tenth of a point better?

What did, I'm at a point, I can answer this from where I am now. I am to a point where I have developed a deep sense of compassion for her because as a mom, I can understand the internal turmoil that has to be experienced for you to be negligent to your children. Right? Yeah. Like it is not something that comes naturally, right? Moms are naturally nurturing. And so there has to be something significant happening, an internal suffering that had to be happening for her that broke that peace in her. Right. And so my answer to your question would be, I would need her to take care of her and address her own mental health stuff because in my family, mothers not talking to daughters or have a relationship with their daughters is generational, right? Um, so she doesn't have a close relationship with her mother, doesn't talk. My grandmother did not talk to her mother, right? Right. So it's generational. Um, and so there were things that she could not give me because she did not. Right. Right. And so I would need her to address that for her in order to be better for me. But even though we are estranged now, my desire is still for her to be better. Did you have a relationship with your grandma?

No. Okay. So your mom didn't have a relationship with her mom, really? Her mom didn't. We've got this cycle of that relationship just continuing to break? Yes. But you're changing that for your children.

Yes. And I have, because I understand just how cycles work and just how me and my daughter's relationship, I am committed to. Loving her differently and even things that I ascribe to are very different. So for example, when people say, I tell them that I have a daughter and that we have a great relationship, they'll say something like, you just wait until she's a teenager, it won't be like that. And I quickly correct them because that will not be our story. And yes, we will have conflict, every healthy relationship. As conflict, but you will know how to work through our conflict.

I love that. So you're the change maker.

Yes.

And you're going to make sure the generations after you are different. Absolutely. Even in the grandmother's face. So if your daughter chooses, you will be the first grandma to be there. Yes. Going back to your mom a bit, there's two things that I thought about. One, motherhood jealousy can turn out so ugly if they don't know how to manage it. I don't think jealousy is necessarily this nasty emotion people try to describe it to be. Okay, so I thought of motherhood jealousy and then I thought about what hurt or what did she need or what was she missing When she was sent away while she was pregnant, that possibly damaged the relationship that you guys could have had, like her, like her punishment. I'm wondering if that had anything to do with struggling to connect with you, um, or not fully connect with you. Like you were her punishment.

I think it has. A lot to deal with it, a whole lot to deal with it. And that is where my compassion comes in. It's not that she had, she was dealt the best hand. They were 13 and 14 making very adult decision. I'm a mom myself and I consider myself very established and it's hard. It's hard in my thirties. I can't imagine being 13. It's, it's hard. Second guess yourself and what should you do what should I do and all the other things that come with and all the decisions that you have to make like, I have compassion for that, but I still do have a responsibility to care for myself too. Oh, of course. Yeah. So I hold both spaces. I hold space for her and I hold space.

Right. And holding space for her doesn't negate the fact that she still made that decision. She's still, and it wasn't just like one or two and it's, Oh, I can't believe I did that. I'm sorry. Like she's continued to keep that up. Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And unfortunately when children grow up to be adult, once they don't need their parents for like concrete needs and financial stuff like that. The relationship that's left is the one that the parent cultivated, and I attempted to cultivate something new, but you do need two willing people to cultivate a healthy relationship.

Can't just be one person. Right. If she's not emotionally mature enough to get herself to a better place so that way she could have a relationship with you. Yeah, it'll never happen

right?

Yeah, man in my head right now is thinking their therapy has worked. Yes If you were this angry person i'm like you are so kind and understanding

I I get I get it if you go through life you get it It's just and we were all dealt me my mom my sister her mom just really dealt a bad hand right and so I had to make a decision if I wanted to keep living with this hand of cards. So I wanted to switch them out. And so, although it was really hard work, I'm just grateful that I switched it out and I'm playing with a completely different hand.

Yeah, I love it. I, I'm just thinking of that analogy and this, no, this deck y'all can have that back. I don't want that deck. Don't want it. No. I'll pick up this one and let, let me see what this does for me. This one I have to come over.

Yes. And this is what I want. And if I don't want this, then I'm putting the card back and I'm picking another card. Yeah. Yeah. I think killing from your mother room gives you the privilege of choosing, right. It gives you the privilege of having apps. When we think about my mom did not have many options, I want more options. So I need to heal from this mother wound because of it. I have more options.

And you're smiling while saying that. They can't see that. So I want to state that there's a big smile on your face and I'm assuming the options and the different things you have chosen just bring you joy. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And that is where. I just, ah, I want everybody to be like this, right? Like, having a mother wound absolutely sucks. It is completely unfair. No one really understands the suffering that happens. However, you don't have to, and I say it, die there. That doesn't have to be the end of your story there. You can heal from that and live a very fruitful life, right?

When i'm working with clients part of healing that mother wound is to create and cultivate relationships that actually do bring you joy that you fully want to be a part of and that You love being a part of because I think the healing when a daughter doesn't get to be In a healthy and happy relationship with her mom So many other relationships struggle You Yes. When you can have the relationships in your life that just light you up. Yes. Part of healing that little girl that just longs for her mom. Yes. Some of that she gets to have through these other relationships.

Absolutely. And I have some amazing relationships. I have amazing people that just want to be with me, around me, engage with me, right? Having fun, smiling, right? I do have those moments where I said, Oh gosh, I wish I did have my relationship with my mom. However, there's so much of my life that's blooming and so many people in my life that helped me bloom. That it really does soothe the wrinkles that motherhood has caused.

I don't think, I don't think we ever stop wanting or desiring our mother, especially during big moments. Yes. But if you can fill some of that void with great people,

yeah,

change things.

Absolutely.

So, if there is a woman listening to this and can resonate with your story in any way, What would you want to leave her with?

I would say take the energy or maybe the focus that has been put towards trying to get your mother to see you or trying to get your mother to love you and see yourself and love yourself and do the work that's necessary. It is, the work is not easy, but it provides a very quick reward. You quickly get a return on investment. Um, and everything that you build is going to be an extension of you. And so as you heal that mother wound, as you start to see yourself and give yourself space, the things that you build, business, relationships, friendships, whatever it is, you will see the fruit of the work that you do. It's going to take work, but we do hard things. We have mother wounds. That was hard. Getting through our childhood, that was difficult. But because we were able to do that, it sets us up to be resilient and determined enough to do this hard part too. So I would just encourage her to do the hard work and quickly see the return that you're going to get on the hard work that you do. There's more people out there that are ready to love you. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I wish podcasts like this were out when I started because it would have made it so much easy, not easier, not feeling like I was such a unicorn.

And although each story is unique, some of the pain is the same. Yes. If people resonate with your story or really liked your story, where can people find you? So

I am Crystal R. Curry on all social media outlets. My website is crystalcurry. com.

Okay. That is the end of the interview with Krystal. I hope her story resonated with you in any way, or you learned something from this episode. I will have all of Krystal's information in the show notes, that way if you're interested you can follow her if you'd like. Thank you so much for listening to another episode all the way through, and I hope you are enjoying this interview series. Can't wait for the next episode. Bye!