I'm Seth Heckaman of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer

of specialty metal roofing and other building materials.

Welcome to Construction Disruption, the podcast committed to bringing

value to home improvement and replacement contractors.

Today we're turning the tables on Todd Miller, who frequently host

Construction Disruption, putting him instead in the guest seat.

As we strive to bring guests and topics that are of value to those in

the home improvement and home services industries, we figure that there's

no one better than Todd with other over 40 years of industry experience.

Todd was recently presented with a lifetime of leadership

legends of the home improvement.

Industry award by his colleagues through Dave Yoho and Associates.

Uh, Todd is also past chair of the Metal Construction Association and current

president of the Metal Roofing Alliance.

the years, he has been inducted into the Metal Construction News

Hall of Fame, and he's a recipient of the MCA Larry Sweeney Award.

Over his career, Todd has worked with thousands of contractors and property

owners across the world, helping them to decide whether worry-free metal

roofing was part of their future.

for joining us today, Todd.

You've interviewed a lot of amazing guests on the show.

How does it feel sitting on the other side of the microphone today?

We have had some amazing guests, no doubt about it.

I think back on the, uh, 170 or so episodes we've done, we've had

some, some just phenomenal guests.

Almost, well, well, I'll just say everyone.

Let's put it that way and be safe and, um, I don't know.

It's different being on this side.

All I can say is that if I suddenly start asking you questions, just roll with it.

I don't know what else to say.

You got it.

We can do that.

Absolutely.

But, uh, sure have been blessed with some great ones and

have learned a heck of a lot.

Uh.

With through construction disruption, which has been great.

Thank you for all your work, uh, interviewing those folks, getting

great conversations and, and spreading great information to everybody.

Uh, for listeners though who may not know your full story and uh,

background, can you share some of that and how you came to be where you

are today leading Isaiah Industries?

I think I was cursed at birth.

There may be more truth to that than we like to think about it.

I am kind of joking, but, uh, no, I came into the business, uh, this business

was started by my father back in 1980 and he had worked for Alcoa building

products throughout most of the seventies.

Had had.

You know, quite a career in engineering and manufacturing prior to that as well.

Um, started this business in 1980.

Um, I was still in high school at the time, believe it or not.

Uh, I came out of college in 86 and came into the business full time and, um.

Rest is history.

Early years we were doing a lot of commercial metal roofing.

We were the roof of choice for Pizza Hut and Dairy Queen and IHOP

and 70 11 and all those chains.

And um, kind of what we saw by the mid eighties was.

That commercial business was gonna be real prone to architectural fads and cycles.

Um, so we really just started focusing on the residential end of our products.

And, uh, part of my job early on was to go out and spend some time with,

uh, uh, three or four contractors across the country who were selling

metal shingles, residentially.

And, uh, just learn from them, learn what they were doing, and then go out and.

Try to replicate them.

And uh, so that's what I did for a lot of years.

Um, lots of, lots of road warrior days, but anyway, um, that's what I did.

And the business, uh, has continued to evolve so that now we are almost,

uh, strictly residential products and, you know, we still love commercial

projects and we get them, we don't get a lot of Pizza Hut roofs anymore.

But, uh, occasionally we'll be blessed with a multifamily or a church or some

sort of monumental or park building, and we love those projects, but.

Vast majority of our work is single family, uh, residential at this point.

I've just, as you're talking about the history, thinking

about all the stories that, uh, you like to remind me of those early days

of maybe how I've got it way easier, uh, with current technology and business

than what, uh, when you started.

I, what comes to mind are, you know, two week western trips and doing your laundry

at a laundromat over the weekend, or, uh, tearing yellow pages out of hotel phone

books and, you know, packing shingles in the afternoon after high school.

So, uh.

Started at the ground floor and, and really have done so much

to build a residential metal roofing market where it is today.

So lots of neat history there.

I gotta tell you, I rebelled for the longest time

when GPS units first came out.

I kept telling our, our team, we don't need those.

I got all these maps.

I got a whole filing.

Have no full of maps, so I'd send people off with their maps, but

eventually I just discovered that GPS was a heck of a lot easier.

technology has its advantages.

Absolutely.

So really, you know, uh, with Don and that story, you really were born into it,

uh, and have been at it for a long time.

Um, I think you, you get asked frequently, especially in an age

where, uh, folks staying at the same, in the same industry, let alone the

same company for their entire career, uh, especially when that career is.

30, 40, uh, 50 years, uh, when you're at the tail end of it.

But, uh, what keeps you passionate about it after all these years and

what still excites you every morning?

I think a lot of it is the people and the relationships

that we can build through business.

But, uh, I'm also kind of, and I think I'm probably getting a

little bit funnier about this in my old age, believe it or not.

Um, I like.

To throw out new ideas every once in a while and, and try some exciting things.

I, I remember when I was growing up, a lot of my relatives were school teachers,

and I always thought as I was hitting that age of thinking about my career, I thought

school, teaching school sounds so boring.

You're just gonna do the same thing year after year after year, just.

We wash, rinse, and repeat then, but then when I got into business,

I discovered that, yeah, I was kind of doing the same thing.

Not every year, but every day.

Um, so there's a lot of repetition out then, but out there.

But, um.

I think in business you gotta make your own excitement.

Um, you gotta go out and continually try to, uh, build new relationships.

So suddenly those, uh, building new relationships was, uh,

something you couldn't do.

That would be a real detriment for me.

Um, so you gotta keep looking to build those relationships, um, meet new people,

interesting people out there and keep.

Pushing for new things to try.

I, I think a lot of industries, as you look at them, suddenly, you

know, they just became very stagnant and then a disruptor came along

and those guys who were stagnant ended up, uh, being roadkill.

And so I, I think you gotta be really careful in business to always be pushing

for new things, even if sometimes those ideas seem a little crazy and outlandish,

you never know what they might.

Uh, lead to.

So yeah, I think that's what I'm driven by is, uh, meeting new people, building

relationships, um, enjoying the people I've gotten to know over the years.

Um, but then continuing, continuing to look for those,

um, possible ways to disrupt and shake things up a little bit too.

Very cool and really, construction disruption is a great example

of that, of the vehicle to build those new relationships, learn new things.

The idea of even having a podcast in the first place was, uh, a step

of innovation for us and there's been some great fruit of it.

Absolutely.

Uh, you know, we've been joking about these technology changes over.

Your career, but not only has the technology changed, the

market has changed dramatically.

Uh, where when you were first out visiting those, literally three or four guys

across the country that we knew that were selling products residentially, you

know, metal wasn't even 1% market share back then, late eighties, early nineties.

When you look at residential re-roofing, uh, now the current

data shows we're around 15%.

Uh, you know, one out of every six, one out every.

Seven, uh, roofs replaced every year are being replaced with metal.

Uh, what, from your perspective, what have been the major factors in that growth?

What has driven that?

That's a good question.

And you know, I think one of the things is just natural product evolution.

I mean, if we look at any building material, um, it's.

For the most part, not the same as it was 40 years ago, or

let alone a hundred years ago.

And yet here we had roofing that, you know, especially coming out of

World War II, had been pretty much stagnant with asphalt shingles.

And I think, um, metal kind of brought something, uh, new in terms of just.

The natural evolution toward products that are longer lasting, better looking,

add more value, all that type of thing.

That's certainly one factor.

The internet, of course, uh, was a huge factor as well.

Suddenly consumers who are out there saying, gosh, I'm sick of changing my

shingles every few years, and there has to be something better out there

in terms of roofing and, you know, yet.

The commonplace roofing contractor had no reason to talk to them about

anything other than his bread and butter, which was asphalt shingles.

Um, suddenly with the internet, they were able to find those products.

So that's been a big factor.

Um, I think the Metal Roofing Alliance, which.

Um, was started by a few of us back about, oh gosh, 27, 28 years ago now.

Um, and the Metal Roofing Alliance was all about being that market development,

uh, for residential metal roofing.

I think that's had a lot to do with the growth of the industry.

Um, but really I, I think one of the big factors too has been

portable role forming technology.

Um, I mean, you know, the kind of normally what people thought of

when they thought of metal roofing were long sheets and, you know, back

in the eighties we'd put the long.

Sheet corrugated roofing on agricultural buildings and we would just lap 'em.

We wouldn't have to have continuous length panels or anything.

And suddenly mobile rural forming came up and we could do these continuous

length panels right on job sites.

And you continue there.

You got the metal shingle guys that are.

Easily able to ship their products, um, across the country, across

the world, um, because we're not dealing with the long panels.

So I think that those product developments really were what made

metal roofing more accessible, um, to both contractors and property owners.

And, um, you know, as I look at back at my role in the industry over those, those

years, uh, along with really the Metal Roofing Alliance, um, I've always seen

my role is really to provide education.

And to help both contractors and property owners help them make the

right choice in regards to roofing.

You know, help that contractor make the right choice in terms

of what they're gonna offer.

Help that homeowner make the right choice in what terms of what they're gonna use.

And as you know, I'll be the first to say, I don't think metal roofing

is for every contractor out there, and I don't think it's for every

property owner out there either.

And so we've always, uh, been very.

Conscious of doing that education part of things.

Um, the other thing that's been kind of interesting along all that is,

you know, as the market has grown, we've suddenly started to see some

inferior products be developed.

And that's always been a fear I think, of the people who are leading

our industry is, um, lower quality products sneak in their way in.

Um, maybe domestically or maybe from overseas.

And so that's, you know, something else, I think it's always been really

important to me from the education standpoint is to educate people, not

just about metal roofing, but uh, about what makes a quality metal roof,

something that's really going to get them the value that they're paying for.

And you've been so faithful to that.

And really it's been a calling for you, the number of nights you, uh, the number

of hours you spend in the evening, just responding to folks from across the world,

across the country with their roofing questions and really modeling that high

integrity selling for all of us here at Isaiah and across the industry, uh,

something certainly learned from you and.

Especially someone who never thought they'd be selling,

uh, anything themselves.

Um, but just trying to educate the folks and help them come to their

ideal solution, whatever that might be.

Um, but certainly been on the forefront of leading the industry, being riding

this wave of growth, uh, where we are today, 15%, 40 years later.

Do you, are we tapped out?

Do you think we're reaching that saturation point or do you think,

uh, it's still a high growth opportunity for all those involved?

I think that's a good question and my, my, uh, crystal ball

does isn't real clear on it, but for a number of years here recently, up

until very recently, I kept saying, you know, I think metal as a percent

of the residential roofing markets.

Probably is gonna top out around 30 or 35%, which is a lot of metal roofing.

No one's gonna argue that at all.

Um, but I'm kind of rethinking that.

Um, I think that the sustainability and durability of metal are going

to continue to increase in demand.

Um, you know, one big issue in construction for a number of years,

um, that I don't think is gonna get any better and I could talk.

A lot about why I don't think it's going to get be any better.

But, uh, a big issue has been the shortage of skilled labor to install, uh, roofing

and, and other building materials as well.

And so one answer to that shortage of labor is to simply use products that

don't have to be replaced as often.

Um, so if suddenly you, all of your roofing material is lasting 75 years.

That of 15 years, um, whatever that multiple is, five or whatever,

um, you have reduced your.

Skilled labor needs by that amount.

And so I really think that the industry is gonna continue to grow.

I think homeowners are gonna continue to, uh, be tired of having to

replace their roof real frequently.

And, um, it seems like no matter what the asphalt shingle industry does, um,

new colors, new profiles, new design.

They really don't gain much on that life expectancy.

And um, as you know, one of my big talking points is if the asphalt shingle

industry, um, suddenly was producing products that lasted twice as long,

um, they would collapse under the weight of their own infrastructure.

They wouldn't be able to survive because asphalt shingles are heavy.

They're expensive to ship.

And so you've got about a hundred plants, maybe 125 plants making asphalt

shingles, um, across North America, um, so that they don't have to ship product

as far again, you know, suddenly if, uh, shingles started lasting twice as long,

that all comes crashing down real quick.

So, um, I think metal's gonna continue to gain market share.

I where we'll top out.

Um, I don't know.

It's never gonna be a hundred percent probably, um, unless some government

mandate made it a hundred percent.

But, um, I think it's gonna continue to grow.

So I think there's lots of upside and lots of growth ahead of us.

Sure.

And yeah, it makes perfect sense.

The skilled labor dynamic, it's, it's such a significant fixed cost as prior to

the equation, not some variable cost, you know, creating cheap rinse and repeat.

Temporary solutions out there.

None, none of those exist anymore.

So, uh, certainly a big factor working in our favor.

Uh, you know, one thing that's always been interesting about our business

model of, you know, 90% of what we do is metal roofing, and we're

going out and we're partnering with contractors across the country is.

Rarely are we working with a contractor or home improvement company where it's

a swap the widget in and out of our products versus a current metal roof

roofing product that they're selling.

Uh, we love those opportunities, so anybody interested in talking

about 'em, we welcome it, but just not where the market has been.

We're, uh, we're always working with.

Folks who are new to the business or whether a roofing company

or a home improvement company, adding it to their offering.

Um, and, you know, so that there's a learning curve

there, there's some challenges.

Uh, I'm curious what you've seen have been, uh, those most significant

challenges over the years and, and how you've seen, uh, people implement or add

metal roofing well to their businesses.

Well, that was a nice little shameless plug.

You, you, uh, worked in there.

I like that.

And, and.

Well deserved for you and the sales team and the great job that you

all do, uh, in terms of onboarding new people into our industry.

And of course, uh, we've got a big onboarding event coming up

shortly after the first of 2026 that we're looking forward to.

But, you know, it's, it's interesting.

I think that the big thing that contractors always worry about, and

usually, uh, you and I have both experienced this, the first question

out of their mouth is, well, who's.

Who's gonna put this on for me?

Um, so that's always their concern.

And, you know, yet, you know, we've come up with ways to, to help them with that.

I mean, both through training, um, through regional guys who have

been trained and subcontractors that are available out there.

But I gotta be honest, even though they think their problem's gonna be installing,

um, typically their real problem is.

Um, the real struggle is when the rubber meets the road and, you know, they're

trying to convince that homeowner, uh, to analyze their roofing needs and, you know,

make a decision for them in their home.

And roofing just hasn't been sold much that way over the years.

It's been more of a, a give me a bid and I'll let you know

if I chose choose you or not.

Type of sale, uh, opportunity.

Um, so most contractors, even though they hate to admit it.

Really struggle with that in-home sales process.

And you know, I think that is where it's important for a contractor to align with

a manufacturer who has good training, who has tools, who has things like an

in-home sales presentation, um, things that they can continually perfect and,

and get better at in order to bring into their business and onboard metal

as a serious part of their business.

Now, obviously it.

Goes even before that with marketing and lead generation.

All of those things are fairly new to guys who are entering into metal.

Um, but again, I think they, they align themselves with the right, uh,

manufacturers, the right industry experts.

They can find that, you know, they can overcome those challenges pretty readily.

Sure.

Trying to, you know, take advantage of the collective experience and

bring, get those right people to the table, shorten that learning

curve and, uh, learning those tough lessons, uh, yourself as best you can.

So, you know, like you said, we certainly love the opportunity when, when we get to.

Be that manufacturer coming to the table.

And it's interesting you mentioning, you know, just the, um, how roofing

has been sold in the past and what that has looked like and hasn't

often been that consultative sales conversation, like maybe windows or

siding has been, but the contractors we're working with now who are changing

their sales process to align more with that or seeing that it's having great.

Impact across their entire, uh, roofing division.

Not, this isn't, uh, just a plug of how you only sell metal roofing, but it's,

uh, it's sales 1 0 1 best practices that have been proven for years and years of

getting into better conversations with homeowners, building more value, and you

know, really increasing their close rate and in margin across all their products.

Asphalt, you can make more money selling at when, even when you sell an asphalt

shingle, uh, selling in that way.

And, uh, it's been fun seeing that transformation for.

Uh, for the contractors we get to partner with.

Absolutely.

So in the thousands and thousands of contractors you've worked

with over the years selling metal roofing, you know, what have been the

key differentiators of those that have had success versus those that have maybe

struggled a bit more, uh, maybe key indicators of those organizations that

you get excited when you see those, uh, those same characteristics in others.

Sure.

I certainly think the willingness to take on a structured sales system, um,

through which they're gonna sale, sell the product from promote a. It is is certainly

key and that's something that you see in all the guys that are successful.

Um, I just think in general though, what I'll notice is, uh, they will really

focus on installation and professionalism.

Um, professionalism certainly is important.

Whenever you're selling a high end product, um, you've gotta be able to

earn that customer's trust and respect.

And, uh, have them see that, hey, this is a company I'll make that investment with.

Um, but the other thing I've also seen in roofing over the years is a lot of

times, you know, contractors will sell jobs and figure that, uh, they'll get

their profitability by somehow short, changing the installation process or

maybe hiring a sub that will do it for 20 bucks a square, less, I don't know.

Um, that you cannot do in metal roofing.

You've gotta be committed to hiring only the best installers.

Um, not doing that is gonna come back to haunt you.

Uh, when you're dealing with a roof system that is not heavily dependent

upon sealants and also a roof system that that customer, rightfully so, has

very high, long-term expectations of.

So, um, I think leading with.

Professional installation is certainly a key, uh, to that success.

And I think finally, um, the, the successful guys know their numbers and,

you know, we can talk about numbers all day in terms of leads and appointments and

conversions and all that type of stuff.

Um, I'm amazed at the number of contractors I run

into who, uh, don't even.

Produce a monthly profit and loss statement.

And you know, that's a real problem also.

So you gotta know all those numbers, uh, not only as far as your leads and, uh,

your profitability, um, but the general overall health of the business as well.

So, uh, certainly one big thing I think you and I have both

noticed with the successful guys is, uh, they know their numbers.

I mean, they will tell you verbatim real quick what those various ratios and

percentages are that they're running.

Absolutely we, yeah, we see the contrast every day from the

companies that can't tell you what you.

And their top line revenue was the, the month or year before.

And then we're in the rooms with the guys that are measuring that p and l

down to a 10th of a percentage point.

There's a spectrum in our industry and, and really the, the success

and staying power, uh, plays it, you know, it's the, what you expect,

uh, across that spectrum ends up playing out every, every single day.

I think you, you were the one that taught me the famous.

Peter Drucker quote of, yeah, what you don't measure, you can't manage.

Uh, and there's whatever variation of that, but the, the principle there,

uh, incredibly, incredibly key.

so we've talked a lot about your history over, uh, you know, 40 years

in this industry, but curious in this, uh, wacky post COVID market that

we're in, uh, currently here at the end of 2025, what are, what are some

current or, uh, real present issues that you think are turning into.

Make or break moments for, uh, contractors, home improvement country,

uh, companies across the country.

You know, it's certainly been interesting to look at things post COVID.

I mean, you know, even back during COVID in those couple years, right after.

You know, people felt pretty rich.

Suddenly wages popped up, they were getting some government stimulus

money and we had a lot of money being spent on home improvement.

And it was just an industry that, uh, really burgeoned there coming out of COVID

and, and even, you know, in 2020 as well.

Um, and so I think that, you know, for a period of time their contractors,

um, just expected that phone to ring and by and large it did because people

were out there and they were wanting to buy stuff and everyone liked that.

Um, but then this year, what we've heard so much about here in 2025, um,

even 2024, was a real shortage of leads and difficulty in generating leads.

And we can talk about a lot of reasons for that.

Frankly, one of the reasons is so much work was done the.

Prior year cup, couple prior years that people didn't have as much work to do.

But, um, I don't think there's any doubt.

Um, consumers are changing how they buy things and the contractor

who doesn't realize and respect that is gonna fall by the wayside.

Um, I hate to be that blunt, but it's just the reality.

And, um, consumers no longer are, uh, of the mindset that, oh, I've gotta do home

improvement, so I've gotta go out and get.

Three contractors, five contractors to give me bits.

Oh, everyone tells me I should take the middle one.

I'm probably really gonna take the cheap one, but they tell me

I should take the middle one.

And people don't buy that way anymore.

I mean, the whole Amazon culture, the whole, whole Google Review

culture, um, instead has people.

Doing a lot of that research upfront.

Um, I often tell the story about the last major home improvement wife.

My wife and I made, um, was about a $60,000 job.

And I called one contractor because I didn't wanna talk to anybody else.

I called the one contractor that my research led me to, would be the best one

for our project, and that was who I hired.

And I think that's what a lot of people are doing now.

They do not want to go through that process of model forbids.

No one has time for it, no one.

We've all become a little bit more protective of our safe spaces, our homes,

not wanting to invite people into them.

Um, heck, I go out.

For breakfast Now with my preacher, I don't invite him over.

I don't want him in my house.

Oh, don't tell him that.

Anyway.

Um, but I, I, I think that, you know, there, there's a statistic

being thrown around right now, and I don't even know who it came from,

but it's probably very true, is that.

When a homeowner goes to buy, um, a home improvement, uh, for their home, um, by

the time they even pick up the phone and call a contractor or send them a response

form on their website, they are 80% of the way through their buying decision.

And I firmly believe that that's the case, uh, with most of them.

So what does this mean to contractors?

Well, I think one thing it means is.

There's gonna flat out be fewer leads going forward.

Um, if you think of the average homeowner used to get three bids,

now they're only getting one.

You can have the same number of projects going on and there's simply

gonna be fewer leads going around.

And so, you know, that's one thing, but your close ratio should go up.

And I'm starting to hear that from a few guys that yes, my lead count is down,

my close ratios are coming up, so you should be start to sell more of those.

But what you really gotta focus on is that customer experience.

And you know, a lot of times people think that customer experience strictly is

their sales guy when he shows up at the house and sits across the kitchen table.

Customer experience starts with your website.

It starts with any marketing.

It starts with what your past customers are saying about you.

Um, you gotta focus on that customer experience because that is what's

gonna make that customer make sure that you are the one person they're

calling rather than going out and just going down the yellow pages and

calling 3, 4, 5, 6, whatever it is.

So I think that's gonna be the real crux.

Um, make or break it for.

Home improvement contractors these next couple years is, do they adjust to that

new way that the consumer is buying?

Absolutely.

Uh, it, it seems to be co be so obvious.

There's plenty in our industry that are still, it seemed want to have their

head in the sand, uh, so to speak.

But, but you said it there, your research led you to the company that

you called and who you wanted to do business with, so they were the one

well positioned to still be there and serving you during that process.

They, they didn't know it yet, um, but.

You, they were the ones that you called and there was plenty that you didn't.

Uh, and on the flip side of it, who all, all these in-home salespeople that

want to think that's, uh, you know, eliminating them from the equation, that

guy still showed up with a structured sales system and he, he knew the process

that he wanted to take you through.

But because, you know, because of where you were in the funnel, you were able

to have a much more tailored, specific, relevant conversation to you rather

than explaining inane stuff that, uh, you didn't want to know anyway.

Absolutely the, the funniest story when I had that guy

come to our house and we're sitting across the table talking to him

and he's, he's starting his thing.

He was great.

He was doing a really nice job.

I looked at him and said.

You've been through Sandler training, haven't you?

Because I immediately recognized, uh, I, he was Sandler Iced, uh, which

Sandler is a great training system.

So many others out there that are great for home improvement though, um, kudos

obviously to Dave Yoho and Tony Cote and Chuck Toki, and so many of the

guys that are out there just killing.

Um, Marcus Sheridan, um, guys that are helping contractors adjust to the new

way that consumers are buying because I hate to tell you, they're not going back.

And you may think, well, I'm gonna ride a few more years with the older

people still buying the old way.

I don't think so.

Um, even my mother would not be buying that old way of calling

three contractors to her house.

Instead, she would just tell me to take care of it.

But you know, that's a whole different story.

So, you know, what other advice at this point would

you give contractors who are maybe looking ahead to next year tr

evaluating what their goals are?

Uh, you know, many of them through wrapping up a year that, um.

They may not have had a stellar of a year accomplished the goals

they had set out for themselves.

Not not to their own fault, that's just where a lot of the industry

is, uh, at this exact moment.

But what advice would you have for 'em as they're evaluating, making

those changes and maybe adding metal roofing to their business?

I would certainly learn from what happened to

you these last couple years.

Um, and God bless you.

If you had a stellar last couple years, you are in the

minority and that's fantastic.

You're already killing it.

Look at what you did and keep doing it.

Um, but if it was a tough last couple of years, see what you can learn from that.

And, and I think what you're gonna find is that a lot of people kind of slacked off.

I mean, again, coming outta COVID, they had some really strong years.

Um, they didn't have to work real hard to generate leads.

Um, they didn't really even have to watch their books all that close because

the business just kept coming in and by and large, it was profitable and.

So I think what you're finding now is contractors are gonna look back on

the last couple years and say, yeah, I was kind of, eh, I was kind of doing

things halfway the last couple years.

And so, uh, they're gonna realize they need to get back to doing

things full way, uh, full on.

Everything that they can possibly do, uh, to do it right in their business,

uh, they're gonna realize that the business can't be a part-time thing.

It can't be a play thing that, uh, lets 'em buy new trucks whenever

they want or whatever that might be.

Um, instead it has to be something they have to devote some serious

time to, uh, if they're gonna run a successful business.

Um, finally, and, and this is probably a little self-serving, I'll be honest.

Um.

Align yourself with good suppliers.

I don't care if it's our company, I'd love it.

Oh, okay.

I do kind of care.

I'd love it if it is, but align yourself with good suppliers, whether

that's manufacturers or distributors.

Align you with companies that bring you training, bring you support.

Um, one of our mantras around here is, uh, we as a manufacturer are successful

only when the contractor selling and installing our products are successful.

And so.

That's what we try to live out each and every day.

And you know, I would challenge you, again, it may not be

us, but you want a contract.

Excuse me.

You want a supplier that wants you to be successful.

Um, so just flat out ask them, one of my words of advice is if you're vetting new

suppliers, um, flat out ask them, what, are you okay if I take on your product?

And it's fairly new to my company.

What are you gonna do to make sure those first three jobs go successfully?

Because every supplier will tell you, I gotta get 'em through those first

three jobs successfully, or they're never gonna do more business with me.

So ask them what they're gonna do and if they come back and say, well, um, I'll

get you the product when you need it.

I'll make sure you get invoice correctly.

Yeah, that's not the answer you want.

You want the answer of the guy that's gonna help you sell those jobs.

You want the answer of the guy that's gonna help you know

how to install those jobs.

You want the guy, uh, with the answer, who's gonna have your back,

if any, hiccups along the way.

And that's the answer you're looking for when you ask them, what are

you gonna do to help make sure I'm successful on my first three jobs.

Excellent advice.

Thank you.

Switching gears a little bit, uh, you know, for.

Years now, you have also played a really active role in, uh, industry

leadership, specifically through Metal Roofing Alliance and the

Metal Construction Association.

Uh, curious, uh, can you share why that's important to you and, and what challenges

do you see facing the industry as a whole, uh, now and, and maybe in the near future?

I, I do think a rising tide raises all ships, and that's

one reason I've always wanted to, uh, spend a lot of time playing at

the industry trade association level.

I want our industry to be as good.

And as right as it can possibly be.

Um, now one of the things that trade associations do for you too is,

uh, they will typically represent you well with building codes and

other challenges that may come up.

And that's something that as a small to mid-size manufacturer, um, a lot of

companies can't tackle that on their own.

In fact, very few companies, uh, can, so we're better when we're able to work.

Together and pull our resources to represent ourselves, um, as an industry

that's there to grow the industry.

Um, I'll go back again.

Another big thing of mine has been really promoting, uh, not just metal

roofing, but quality metal roofing.

And that's something that we carry out heavily, uh, at the

trade association level as well.

Um.

Far as challenges, I think it's gonna be interesting.

So, um, couple years ago, and I always forget the names of hurricanes,

but, oh man, I'd hate it if I was ever named after a hurricane or if

my name was used for a hurricane.

But anyway, um, the hurricanes that hit Florida, and you know, we had said coming

out of those, that's gonna change the type of roofing people use in Florida.

And it has, I mean, Florida has turned solidly for metal.

In the wake of those hurricanes.

And now, you know, almost a year ago we had the Southern California

fires and same thing said that is gonna change how, uh, people think

about roofing in Southern California.

And you know, one of the things, you talk about Southern California, but

lots of other areas of the country are concerned about wildfire also.

Um, so.

As metal starts to pick up recognition in those severe weather areas, uh, which.

Once they start using more metal, even the less severe weather areas

are going to get interested in metal.

But we're gonna have more challenges from the competition.

Um, our competition are not dollar are just gonna sit on

their thumbs and not do anything.

And so we have to be.

Prepared from an industry standpoint to represent ourselves well, um, in that

sort of burgeoning interest that is occurring, uh, in metal roofing right now.

Um, I think another thing is, you know, there's a lot of talk lately

in the news about the American dream.

And you know, if you're gonna boil down the American dream for most people, I

mean, it can mean a lot of things, but a lot of things, a lot of times people boil

it down to home ownership and they're looking at a lot of younger folks and

saying, gosh, with home prices, I don't know how they're gonna afford a home.

I do think that that's something we as an industry need to

start seriously thinking about.

And um, I'm always kind of the one at industry meetings to poke the bear

a little bit and kind of, uh, jab at some stuff that other folks aren't.

Thinking about or think, I'm silly for thinking about, but, um, we as an

industry have to be giving some thought to all along our supply chain, how can

we drive some cost out of a quality metal roof in order to make it more

affordable as part of the American dream.

Um, one of the things my eyes were open to a while back was that so much of.

Um, home values are being established by what would it cost to replace that

home if it got destroyed by a storm?

And so the replacement costs are driving home values to some degree.

And so there's a lot here that we as an industry really have to start

to sink our teeth into and realize, okay, what role can we, as the metal

roofing industry play in perpetuating.

And allowing people to live and achieve that American dream.

I, I think it's really important.

Absolutely, uh, important to the entire fabric of our society.

No, no question.

Absolutely.

And obviously things like those and, uh, you know, on that,

uh, level of societal impact and doing good out in the marketplace, I think

is certainly a big driver for you.

But I'd love to hear it in your own words, of, uh, 40 years in, um, over

40 years in, uh, what still motivates you and gets you excited, uh, in

the same business and industry.

You know, I think it boils down to this.

I love challenges, um, and it's probably horrible to be a person that

says they get excited by problems.

But I feel like that's where 40 years of experience comes into play.

Um, I think that there is a certain mastery you achieve, uh, when you're in

the same, not only the same industry, but the same business for that length of time.

And so I love challenges.

I mean, give me a manufacturing problem that we're trying to overcome.

Uh, give me a customer with some unique roofing needs.

Uh, give me the contractor that you know, is really struggling,

figuring out where his future is.

Um, those are the things I love.

Um, fortunately for me in this world, you never run outta problems.

And, uh, I love being the one who maybe can.

Sometimes I don't have the answer to everything.

Everyone knows that.

Um, but sometimes I hope I can play a role in helping people, uh, find a

better future, find a better way of doing things, find a better way of

manufacturing, whatever that might be.

Uh, that's what I get challenged by is, uh, and enjoy so much as the problems.

Keeps things interesting and you know, as someone

who knows you well, uh, that is largely driven by your servant heart

and to care for those around you.

And, uh, all of those in that sphere are grateful for that.

So, uh, thank you, uh, Todd for that.

And thank you for this great conversation.

Um.

Really enjoyed it and, and think it'll bring, bring great

value, uh, to others as well.

Um, we're wrap close to wrapping up what we call the business end of

things here, but is there anything that we haven't touched on that you'd

like to share before we wrap up?

I'd encourage contractors out there to check out metal.

Um, if you aren't already involved in it.

Um, I think the future continues to be bright forward.

I think it's gonna continue to grow.

Um, and if I can help you anywhere, any way, uh, any place.

Along the way if I can help you, um, feel free to reach out to me.

That's, uh, the stuff I love is helping folks.

Well, probably the portion of our conversation I've looked

forward to the most has been, uh, turning the tables on you on this game.

We like to play at the end of the conversation called, uh,

rapid fire question round.

You are well aware this.

Is no surprise to you.

I'll, I'll still, uh, be gracious enough to ask you if

you're willing to participate.

Uh, m asking you seven questions that, uh, may be serious, may be silly, uh, but all

you have to do is give a quick response.

You must not have gotten the message.

We actually went down to five questions and I was gonna reduce it

to three, but I'm good with seven.

I

Let's do it.

five.

Seven's good.

Seven's good.

ones.

So first response off the top of your head, we'll see, uh, how

crazy and off the rails it gets.

But, uh, so here we go.

Uh, rapid fire question number one, one of our.

Uh, favorite questions here at Construction Disruption, uh, Ryan,

specifically, you had to eat a crayon, what color would you pick?

You know, that's just a weird question.

Um, it, it would be white, um, because, uh, hopefully it wouldn't show up

quite as badly as some other color.

Um, some people like to think, okay, certain colors

may taste better than others.

I'm guessing they all taste like wax.

Um, so I'd go with white.

I can appreciate that logic.

Absolutely.

So question number two, what is a product or service you've purchased recently that

has been a real game changer for you?

I should have anticipated that question and, uh, I don't

know if I have an answer for it.

I should have thought, thought that one through.

Um, I did just get new glasses and I feel like I've entered 1975.

Um, they got the little bar across the top and, uh, all that stuff.

So, um, these are.

Kind of being a game changer for me, making me feel a little

more hip and cool, I think.

Yeah.

you go.

But, but feelings don't mean much.

You've never been shy about pushing the, uh, fashion

envelope on your glasses selection, but you were just saying at lunch

that you think the big lenses have, uh, broadened your, your view.

I do feel like I've, I've got a better view.

Yeah.

Good stuff.

I.

Question number three.

Uh, what is a bucket list vacation for you?

Italy, uh, with my wife and son, no doubt about it.

I've been there once for just a couple days on my own, and, uh, very anxious

to, uh, bring them both to Italy, Northern Italy in particular, sometime.

Question number four, what's the one skill you'd pick to

learn if you could pick it up instantly?

Gosh, I'm kind of torn, um, between speed reading and yeah,

I'm gonna go with speed reading.

The other thing is memory.

Um, I really admire these guys that can make all these mnemonic.

Brain trips, brain tricks to remember anything.

And especially as I get older and I'm thinking I might need to start

eating that shark cartilage or whatever that is, um, I'm thinking

I may need some help with memory.

But yeah, I would say speed reading is something I could wish I could

do and totally embrace stuff as you know, I, I speed listen to podcasts.

I have got that down.

Um, double speed all the time on podcasts.

I don't care if everyone sounds like a chipmunk.

Yeah, I can do 1.25, but beyond that, it takes.

takes the pleasure out of it for me.

But that's interesting.

I, as, again, someone who knows you well, I would not have guessed speed

ringing at the top of your list.

That's, uh, that I I get it though.

Absolutely.

Uh, next question.

Do you prefer the top or bottom half of the bagel?

Oh, top half.

Absolutely.

That's where all the stuff that is a diabetic I shouldn't

eat is so on top half.

Uh, except everything bagels, everything is just too much.

I'm sorry.

That's just too much.

They're my favorite.

But yeah.

Your sweet tooth.

These, these mouth puckering, cinnamon, sugar, concoctions,

Yeah, those, those, yeah.

Yeah.

All on the top.

second to last question.

Uh.

Who is one person you would want on your team in a zombie apocalypse?

I'd have to say, you

may, may, maybe I'm cheating by saying that, but, uh, you are one of the

most, uh, you're, you're resourceful.

You are determined.

You are, um, tenacious and, uh, yeah, I, I'd want you on my

team as in a zombie apocalypse.

No doubt, Seth.

Thank you.

So all, all the things that may make me difficult on a day in and

day out basis may come in handy at the, if it comes to that.

I wasn't gonna go there, but if you want to, we can.

It is not gonna be surprise to many.

It is what it is.

All right.

Last rapid fire.

Question number seven.

Mr. Miller, what would you like to be remembered for at the end of your days?

Oh, I, I think someone who, who loved God and who loved people.

Um, I, uh, I truly am enriched whenever I, uh, get to meet someone new and, uh.

I guess probably 'cause I'm a bit of an oddball and a misfit myself.

I especially enjoy meeting oddballs and misfits.

Uh, I just find my life is, uh, made richer by hearing other

perspectives, um, and hearing other people's, uh, ways of looking at

things and thinking about things.

So.

Todd, thank you again for the conversation, as always, your

willingness to share and, uh, bring value to folks and, and really all that you've

done over, uh, your 40 year plus career.

Uh, for those that want to get in touch with you and continue it in.

Individually, which I know I can attest to.

Uh, you would love nothing more if they did reach out.

Uh, what's the best way for them to do that?

Sure I'm pretty easy to find on LinkedIn.

Uh, just put Todd Miller Metal Roofing.

You gotta come up with me.

Um, there is a button on my link.

LinkedIn profile where you can book a Zoom call with me.

Uh, happy to meet with anybody on Zoom for, you know, I think it sets

up a 40 minute call or something.

Love to do that.

Um, and folks can email me direct probably.

Uh, well, I, I, at the risk of having to spell it, I will say my email

is toddMiller@isaiahindustries.com.

I-S-A-I-A-H industries.com.

Thank you Todd, and thank you audience so much for tuning

into this episode of Construction Disruption with Isaiah Industry's

president and industry guru Todd Miller.

Please watch for future episodes of our podcast.

We are always blessed with great guests.

Uh, don't forget if you would to leave a review on Apple Podcasts

or give us a thumbs up on YouTube until the next time we're together.

Keep on disrupting and challenging those in your world

to better ways of doing things.

And don't forget.

To have a positive impact on everyone you encounter.

Make them smile and encourage them to simple yet powerful things we

can all do to change the world.

God bless and take care.

This is Isaiah Industry signing off until the next episode

of Construction Disruption.