00:00:07 Nazish: In a world that teaches us to level up overnight, we rarely we we are rarely invited to slow down and ask, what does wholeness actually feel like in body, in our energy, in our everyday life? Tonight we are stepping into that space.

00:00:23 Nazish: Welcome back to our room, the space where we explore healing energy and the subtle shift that transform how we live. I am your host and today I am joined by Karisma Ferrer, a holistic wellness coach and author who helps people move away from all or nothing self-help and towards healing, rooted in self trust and real life. She is the author of The Light Switch Myth and the creator of From Pressure to Path A Compassionate Framework for change. We are exploring her own healing experience with wholeness and energy and what it look like beyond theory, beyond productivity, and inside real lived experiences. Karisma, I'm so glad to have you here.

00:01:10 Kersima Vere: Thank you. It's great to be here.

00:01:13 Nazish: when you think back to beginning of your healing journey, what did wholeness mean to you and how did that definition shifted?

00:01:25 Kersima Vere: Um, yeah. Well, for most of my life, I really thought that that wholeness and healing and and even energy work like, such as manifestation and stuff like that was, was about getting rid of all the aspects of myself that were getting in my way that were, you know, like maybe the insecure part or the fearful part or, um, the, you know, like pretty much anything that I deemed as being problematic, um, or being left over from, from childhood, uh, that was working against me. I, I really thought the whole thing overcoming and healing meant, you know, getting rid of it, you know? And I was rather clever, um, about, uh, about it, you know, sometimes it was suppression, sometimes it was exiling it. But I was actually, um, very dissociative, which wasn't even a word that I learned until my, um, mid thirties and, and came to kind of understand the lack of presence I had with myself and how much, how much was at the core that I was, um, not not even able to get close to, to begin with. Right. So that it was there was this core within me that that had all of this energy and memories and stuff like that was that was preventing me from having, um, a quality relationship, um, with myself and, and was very likely, um, working to draw towards me the things I didn't want to draw towards me and um, and impacting drawing towards me some of the things I did want. Oh.

00:03:00 Nazish: I love how that sounded like your wholeness move from something you had to achieve, to something you start recognizing as already present. That shift alone feels very energetic.

00:03:16 Kersima Vere: Yeah, I'm not alone. So many of us, I think, have thought when it came to, you know, aspects of ourself that were less desirable. We we kind of thought the idea was to get rid of them. And you know what I, what I've since learned is like, that is sort of where some of the chaos and the, um, the. Yeah, like I'll just use the word chaos, but that, that the opposite of harmony exists inside of ourselves because we're literally fighting with parts of ourselves. We're literally, literally treating parts of ourselves, um, the way that we would never want to be treated by, by other people. And yet, like that, that is what we're doing. And if you think of you having like an internal system that creates a lot of discord, kind of like a family fighting, right? You know, and, um, we put things into good and bad boxes and, and we're approving of some parts of ourselves, and we're not approving from other parts of ourselves. That's, that's not a very settled, um, internal environment. And it's not, it's not a, an internal family system that is going to allow us to really be at peace or then energetically put forward, um, anything other than that, than that, uh, back, back end message of, um, you know, like the, the anger or the hurt or the, the insecurity or the fear, all of that stuff. It's it's not that it's really gone away. If we've suppressed it, it's still there on an energetic level, so we can smile to till the cows come home and we can make positive affirmations, and we can be just as nice and kind to other people as we can. But if all of that stuff exists on the inside energetically, that's still going to get transmitted out into the world.

00:05:05 Nazish: You know, there's this idea in wellness, the world, that healing is breakthrough moment, a switch flipping. what did you discover about that myth in your own experience.

00:05:19 Kersima Vere: Uh, well, it's a lie. We we might achieve that for for moments or whatever like that, but it we we've we've somehow managed to get, um, beyond whatever it was for for a moment or two. And then I think it's like almost sheer delusion to, to think that we have mastered something. And then from now on, it will be a happily ever situation where we never have to face that, that struggle or that part of ourselves ever again. Because that's just that's not how change works. That's not how growth or healing or anything like that works. Um, you know, uh, neuroplasticity. So, say, if I've learned to get from A to B a certain way for thirty years, I might be able to learn to get from A to B a different way, for sure. But my brain's always going to remember that original way of getting there. It'll get less used, less automatic or whatever, but I'm never going to I'm not ever going to be able to get rid of the fact that I. That I had that knowledge, that I knew how to do that, and that I did it that way for as long as that. I did. So when I'm tired or when struggle comes up or stress comes up or whatever, it's actually going to be quite natural that I might revert back to, to some of those ways that I learned how to how to do things. But if I have an understanding of that, I don't have to get caught up in the in those loops of, um, seeing things as, as a failure or, you know, or a lack of willpower or, or a going backwards or whatever. I can actually see it as a, as a part of life, like, yes, okay. You know, I know how to get from here to there that way I prefer and I choose to go this way. But yeah, sometimes I'm just going to end up defaulting back to that way that I, that I originally knew how. And one step further to that, when I'm talking about that internal, um, system in creating harmony is understanding that, wow, the fact that I knew how to get from here to there that way, That really, really served me. And in the in the present, I can judge it and go because that's a, that's a really sucky way to, to to get there. Right. And it doesn't serve me anymore. So I could sit there in judgment about that. Or I could recognize the value that it really placed in my life so that I'm I'm letting it go. Making choices from a, um, a place of acknowledgement and validation. But choice too, right? You know, like, no, I no longer choose to do things that way. I probably will on occasion, just because I do know how to do that. That's in my it's in my wiring, you know, and and really understanding there's there's a reason for it, you know, but I, I can update the system and do things uh, but it's, it's embracing and embodying all those things. It's not actually getting rid of them. It's learning how to be in relationship with and work with them.

00:08:09 Nazish: I completely, understand that. And, you know, when that light switch moment didn't come, what, and what happened internally. Like, did you feel frustration, doubt or even shame?

00:08:23 Kersima Vere: Yeah, I were one of the catchphrases on my book is, um, the back of cover, I think is like, you know what? If it was the way you approach change that was the problem and not you. And that that came from lived experience and shared experience that I read in that I meet in other people is like, you know, we we often think that we're the problem. We're we are the reason why it's not working. But it it actually is our approach to change. I know, um, you know, with my history, I really, uh, there was a lot of self loathing going on when I was younger, and I knew that was wrong, and I, I wanted to love myself. I thought I thought loving myself was a very important thing, you know? And and I actually thought that, you know, like, I judge myself rather harshly for the fact that I, that I had all that anger and rage and, um, even disgust for myself, um, growing up. But and I spent probably a good couple of decades thinking that, you know, like if I just if I just made the commitment to love myself, if I just decided that I would love myself, you know, and and even tried those, you know, like affirmations and think positively and, and look in the mirror and tell myself I love me. And those things all can be helpful in tandem with actually doing the real work of healing. But they alone, they don't. They don't create that change, you know, like, actually what I learned about loving myself and and having that unconditional kind of love relationship for myself. It wasn't a decision. A decision was necessary for sure, or a desire was part of it. But what? But it was what it actually has been comprised of is practicing on a, on a pretty much a daily basis, responding to myself differently, taking care of myself as I'm able to, understanding with compassion where I'm not able to at different times, you know, but like really meeting myself where I'm at. And it's in all of those those actions of where I treat myself with care, where I treat myself with unconditional regard, where that real shift in actually being able to love myself came from. Not not from flipping a switch and just deciding, oh, well, now I'm going to love myself. There was there was a process that needed to happen, and it actually was a, um, a difficult and slow process and took an incredible amount of, of practice and, you know, started with awareness like, oh, right. Okay. You just called yourself a name again. All right. Um, I hear that. Let's, uh, could we could we could we say something nicer or. Oh, wow, you were just judging yourself because you looked in the mirror and you're. You're still overweight or something like that. I get that, but could instead we meet ourselves with, like, recognizing. Wow. It's it's really it's really painful to, um, to not, uh, this is, this has been painful to not be able to create the changes that I have. Right? There's real struggle there. So to have empathy, you know, and and these changing how we respond to ourselves and how we our realistic updating our vision of what change looks like and understanding it's a process. And it's a process that that circles back at times and, um, often requires support and often requires us responding to ourselves very differently. That takes time. Um, in a much more realistic way than that, that idea that, you know, we can just change something overnight and, and be done with it forever.

00:11:55 Nazish: that is powerful that instead of a dramatic shift, it was more like a recalibration of your energy over time.

00:12:02 Kersima Vere: Yeah. Well, you know, I kind of laughed because, you know, I had I was like many and had those, um, perfectionistic kind of, you know, I'd set the bar really, really high. I would do okay for a little bit, and then I would just like, you know, fizzle out completely, and I'd get frustrated and discouraged and and beat myself up for a while and take me a while to get back to it. I'd try it again and the same thing would happen. And when I figured out that taking much smaller steps and being patient with myself and not pushing so hard actually got me there way quicker than that, try to leap to the top kind of way. I was like, oh wow. Because the way I'd been doing it does not work. It's impossible. Like perfectionism is impossible. So for me, it was like almost a a laughing moment, but like kind of like a oh my goodness, I've been banging myself up against the, the, the wall. I've been trying to do something in a way that just doesn't work most of my life. So you know what? Maybe I am willing to slow it down. Maybe I am willing to try these try these other ways because they actually do seem like they work. So it's probably much in my best interest. You know, if that's the goal, if that's the goal is to actually progress or make the change or, or get where I want to go, like at some point I had to accept that the way I was doing it just was never going to get me there. So then it's like a freedom. And like I said, for me, a bit of a sense of humor, like, okay, so, you know, you're setting goals that are impossible. You can't you cannot be perfect. You know, you just cannot be perfect. So let's let that go. And it still comes up from time to time. And I have a little chuckle with myself. And I think, well, that's that's great. I'm glad that I'm glad that you want that much for yourself. But let's, let's bring it down a notch or two. So this is actually doable.

00:13:53 Nazish: You know, for someone listening right now who always says that that you know, the sounds familiar Like, how does disconnection from wholeness show up?

00:14:05 Kersima Vere: Uh, well, I think that's that's very personal to, to each person, but, you know, like like, I know for me, it was that core. There was that core that every time I would try to get close to it was kind of like an electric fence. And it would, it would send me shooting back because, um, you know, I had to learn that, that I, I got really frustrated, like, oh my goodness, why did it take me till my fifties to start to like, really see and work through this stuff? And, and the truth is I wasn't ready, you know, and so I didn't have the safety or the resources or the right help. Um, so I really respect people's limits if, if there's places we don't want to go yet, um, it's good that we maybe want to challenge ourselves a little bit, but getting curious as to why we can't go there quite yet, and maybe thinking about like, how we could resource ourselves so that we could, and then using techniques like titration where we we dip into it a little bit and we dip that out. But, but really respecting our limits that they're there for a reason. But we can respect our limits without having to be stuck by them. And but what that mean is, is a very you have to I hate to say you have to, um, I needed to, um, first learn how to recognize what was going on in, within myself so that I could respect those limits and that that wasn't an attunement. And that attunement to myself was actually difficult because there was so much on the inside that was, um, painful or difficult or, you know, in some cases actually kind of a little bit horrific and stuff like that. So, um, despite me like, you know, trying to jump into the deep end over and over and over and over again and it always, um, leading to overwhelm and reenactment and going backwards. Um, eventually I did kind of recognize what was being told to me, like, you know what? Just like, let's go. Let's go slower. Let's respect those limits. Let's let's respect that resistance. Let's respect that. Um, all of that, um, with with some accountability that like, you know, okay, we're going to we're going to continue to look at this because it's important, you know, and, and, um, it's interfering with my ability to do some of the things in life that I, that I want to do, such as have a quality relationship with myself. But I'm going to do it very slowly in a way that that respects those fears, that respects those limitations and reservations. I don't always do this. I, I try to, but every once in a while I forget and I try to go barreling in and it just like always blows up in my face. So it's just like, yes, yes, okay. We need to we need just like with other people. We need to respect their limits. You know, if somebody's saying no in a big way, um, you know, what happens if you don't respect that? And it always goes goes south, right?

00:17:12 Nazish: Absolutely. it's like so instead of just internal, it ripples outwards, like energy becomes rational when we are at war with ourselves, that frequency travels.

00:17:27 Kersima Vere: Yes. Yeah. And, you know, back to frequency with the, the energy thing, like, um, I've always thought of myself as an honest person and, um, I've always tried to act with kindness and compassion in the world and not judge. And it was, um, somewhat distressing to me to kind of realize that that even though I had been putting a smile on And even though I'd been acting for all intents and purposes, kind and nice to everybody around me, that because there was an existing, um, anger and, and conflict and, um, hurt and wounds that I had not yet healed, that that was also part of the message that, that I was putting out to people. And you know, that, um, by not being super honest with myself and truthfully, because I wasn't able to be, but, um, then that prevented me from actually being as honest with other people as I thought I was being. You know, I wasn't I wasn't misrepresenting myself, um, on purpose. But like, all of the, all of that, um, inner stuff that was, I thought, messy. And I was trying to get rid of, you know, I kept it to myself, which didn't really allow me, for the most part, to create authentic connections with other people and whether or not people knew what it was, they were picking up on me and regardless of how I act, I acted outward. I think they still did pick up that that kind of energy from me. And it it often worked to kind of like either repel or confuse people. Right. Um, I'm lucky because I, I've also been able to put forth a lot of positive energy into the world. That has brought a lot of really great things to me. But it's, uh, that's I'm a Gemini and I'm a person with a trauma history. So those dialectics that I have both there, you know, there's the sun and the moon, but my, my shadow side has, has, um, even if I put it out of sight, out of mind, or had it locked behind a curtain, it's still impacted my experiences in my life. But luckily, my my little sunshiny soul did as well.

00:19:39 Nazish: really true. your work emphasizes on, uh, non perspective healing. I'm curious what shifted when you stop trying to fix yourself and started practicing self trust instead.

00:19:54 Kersima Vere: Well, you know, it was interesting because I, I'd always kind of wanted somebody to come make it all better and for somebody to have all the answers, even though I was fiercely independent and really failed to take advice most of my life. But I had that secret desire like, oh, you know, gosh, I've been trying so hard my whole life. Couldn't couldn't somebody just have the answer on how to make this all better? And you know, what I really learned was like, no, nobody else can. But it's not that I can't, um, learn about things and hear about other people's opinions and, and really consider their advice, but it needs to be a collaboration with my internal world, with my values, my feelings, my experiences, my beliefs, and the actual circumstances and situation of my life. Right. Like, you know, when I'm when I'm, uh, coaching people who are trying to make, um, uh, improvements in their, um, diet or exercise. You know, it would be ridiculous for me to just lay out a plan that didn't consider, you know, whether or not they have kids, whether or not they they're working forty or sixty hours a day, you know, whether whether or not they have two working legs, you know, um, whether or not they, they like, um, spinach, you know, because if I tell you, yes, you should eat spinach every day, um, that's what you need to do to be to be healthy. And you hate spinach. Like you're going to try for a little while, and then you're going to you're going to stop, you're going to rebel. You're going to get frustrated. You're going to get mad. Why? Because the plan didn't work for you. And the things that you can get in spinach, you can get from other things. Right. So we we need to take that information we get from the world and discern it and then mix it with our own personal truths, our values and our own circumstances, so that we can create plans that are that are actually, like, um, realistic to our own situation.

00:21:52 Nazish: Absolutely. You know, if someone wanted to begin reconnecting with their own energy in a grounded way, not spiritual bypassing and not pressure, where would you gently suggest they should start?

00:22:08 Kersima Vere: Um, well, you know, for for those of us that have spent a life not connected to our body, doing some little grounding exercises can can really be helpful for that. But I with a caution that, you know, like depending on what your history has been, you might want some support as you reconnect to your body because there might be things that are, um, trauma is stored in the body. So that can be be kind of difficult, but a real gentle way that worked for me and has is just like pausing once a day, you know? And I joke sometimes this is best done in the bathroom, but, um, just pausing for a second for me. I like to close my eyes, and I just, I just check. I just do a scan. Okay? Like, how am I feeling physically? How am I feeling emotionally? What's going on in my mind? Do I have racing thoughts? Um, am I feeling anxious? What? So I just take I just take stock, you know, it takes all of, you know, a minute tops, to, to pay attention to what is going on inside my internal world. And it that did grow the awareness of that, the ability to be with that, the ability to go deeper in, in noticing what was there grew with practice. But I remember just basically kind of closing my eyes and I'm almost in the beginning, when I was in that place, I almost always felt a struggle. I almost always connected to this version of me was trying so hard and who was so tired, you know, and and there was a that's I used the word struggle, but I guess it was kind of like a pain, like, you know, this is so hard. And in that moment, I chose I chose to put a hand on my heart and just to say, yeah, you know what, charisma? I know, I know, you're trying hard. I know this is hard. I hear you and I love you, you know, and that. Excuse me? That was where I started with unconditional love. And to begin with, I probably only did that once a day. Now it's something that I actually do throughout the day because it allows me to make really informed choices. Right? You know, like, um, I had these two appointments this morning. I didn't sleep very well. So this morning I had to check in with myself. Do I need to reschedule these appointments or am I up to keeping them? So I was able to make an informed choice and I was like, no, I, I can keep them, but I'm going to put aside some time for, um, self-care after this because I have more commitments later, but it allows me to really check in. When is it good or when is it in my best interest to, um, follow through on the commitments I've made and when do I maybe need to adjust? Right. Um, maybe I had planned, like last night. I wanted to have a Cobb salad because I have all the ingredients. Right? But I also had therapy yesterday, and by the time I was done that I was wiped. I was just wiped, and I really didn't have it in me. So, um, that was a wonderful intention I had for myself, but I, I listened to myself. I adjusted to the fact that I was just exhausted, you know, and I heated up some leftovers and allowed myself to kind of lay on the couch and and rest. But like that, that is where that that little step of of self-awareness, of meeting ourselves, where we're at, knowing what's going on that allows us like first is the awareness, then kind of is a pause, and then we can make a choice. And honestly, like when we make the salad probably would have been healthier for me, right? However, like that, I have learned now to, um, to meet myself where I'm at. It's just like the salad is not better for me if I have to ignore how tired I am and how depleted I feel, and all the rest of that it may on the appearance, the on the surface, it may appear to be the best choice for me, but in that moment, no, no, it wasn't actually doing something simpler was what was the best choice for me, if that makes sense.

00:25:59 Nazish: It does. It does make absolute sense. So charisma for people who want to connect with you and, you know, learn, explore your books and learn more about your work. Where can they do so?

00:26:12 Kersima Vere: Oh please come visit me at Towards Wellness. And if you do, fill out the form and just say hello, there's a there's a contact form. It's got a lot of different options. You could my newsletter is I don't send it out very often. So you won't get spammed with a lot of kinds of things because I'm just don't believe in all of that. But, um, towards wellness, you'll you'll see about the coaching, about me, about the books. You know, eventually I might have my own podcast and it'll link you to my socials if you want ever want to reach out. I always respond to anybody who, um. Who messages me.

00:26:50 Nazish: Wonderful. I will make sure to include all these details into the show notes so that a lot of people can reach out to you. Thank you so much for joining us on all our room.

00:27:03 Kersima Vere: Thank you. It's been great. These conversations just light me up inside.

00:27:08 Nazish: So likewise, and dear listeners, if today's conversation resonated with you as well, take a moment after this episode. Place your hand on your heart and ask yourself not what needs fixing, but what needs listening. Until next time, stay gentle with your energy.