Jeff Baldassari: [00:00:00] So, you have to separate the craft from the operation of the craft. And you need both, obviously. You have to provide some kind of a service, no matter what your business model is. And in this case, it happens to be the practice of law. But what you have to understand and go beyond the craft is like, how does that work? How does it fit in? And how do I grow and expand that and also make it more fulfilling, more satisfying and then also creating that connection, to your clients, to your support staff, to your colleagues, because that's where the magic happens.

And also. It's where, the ease of, it makes your job fun and that's what does make it more fulfilling when you connect better with people.

​

MPS: Hey, law firm owners, welcome to the Your Practice Master podcast. I'm your host, MPS. And today, I'm excited to speak with Jeff Baldassari. He is a wealth of knowledge that's going to share [00:01:00] a lot of wonderful information with us today, even take us down on the journey of his book and how that relates to you as a law firm owner.

And so I'm super excited to get into this conversation. But Jeff, thank you for being on and joining us here with the pod.

Jeff Baldassari: Hey Michael, it's good to meet you over the podcast and I look forward to our conversation today, and exploring quite a few topics that are probably top.

MPS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah. Likewise. And one of the things we always do to kick things off with the pod to get to know the guests just a little bit better is an icebreaker. So, what is something that maybe not everybody knows about you?

Jeff Baldassari: Well, Not everybody knows about me. Well, I guess it would be my background. When I was 17 years old, I was ranked 11th in the country in racquetball. There you go. When I was a young man, I was, I was in a sport. I played a lot of sports, growing up. I never heard of racquetball until I was 15 years old. And I got involved with it.

And a couple of years later, I was doing okay. And, It was a short lived career because when I got to college, I played the campus champ and he couldn't score on me. So there really wasn't much where to go, much farther to go [00:02:00] with that. But for the moment in time I had my, my shiny star moment in racquetball.

It was a lot of fun though.

MPS: The question is, can someone play you now and you're still 11? Yeah. Do you still have it?

Jeff Baldassari: No, I have it, mentally. I know what to do. I can make you better. I can't. No, there's no way, I'm going to get back to that. But I did, have a pro that I spent a couple years in training with. It's just like any other sport. When you learn those little tricks, and if you master them, boy, your game just goes to a whole new level.

So, yeah, But that was a lot of fun. It was a great time of my life, and I enjoyed competing and playing in racquetball.

MPS: Cool. And you don't often hear racquetball as one of those things to say you were 11th in the country is pretty impressive. So, uh, that, that's, that's

Jeff Baldassari: But I'll be one of the few people in America that never plays pickleball because of my natural instinct that when you hit a ball, I will be the world's worst pickleball player ever. So, I don't, I won't take up that sport.

MPS: One of the few to not play.

Jeff Baldassari: I will be one of the few that not play pickleball. That's correct.

MPS: [00:03:00] That's it's, okay, that's okay. We just had a friend over the weekend. We went and play pickleball a few times.

It's fun to go out there and play. But hey, everyone's got their specialty, right? And that's okay. So look, I, you've got a fascinating journey. You've actually practiced law before, right?

That was the career path. But why don't you take us through the high level, because it is a fascinating journey of just your journey professionally, from a high point perspective.

Jeff Baldassari: I was an undergrad. I was an accounting major. I passed the CPA and I went on to law school or directly into law school. Then upon graduating, you know, I practiced law for just about seven years. The last five of which was with the national law firm BakerHostetler. And by the time I left Baker, my attorney count was the 16th largest United States.

It was a wonderful experience. I learned a lot. I love the practice of law. And also, the business of law, so I learned that. And I left law, left Baker to join two clients, wanting to serve as a board member for 15 years, and on a parallel track, I was CEO of a multi-site manufacturer of high end office [00:04:00] furniture.

So I've spent 21 years total of my career as a CEO in manufacturing. Five years consulting to Fortune 1000, the C-Suite of Fortune 1000 companies on spend optimization. And I've served on six boards in my career. I'll be joining the seventh board next week, in fact. but, it's been an interesting, yeah, It's been an interesting journey.

And but, you know, the practice of law has always been a part of me. Whether it's the way you approach problems and challenges and opportunities, the way you analyze them, the way you consider them, think them, you know, the questions you ask as you're trying to seek out what is the real challenge or the problem, how do we overcome it, that has never left me.

I always enjoyed it. And I think, it'll always stay with me the remainder of my career.

MPS: That's terrific. And I think, you offer a different perspective that we don't normally get to see on this pod, which is the perspective of big law in the corporate world and the corporate side of things, because we work with a lot of smaller law firms. So i'm curious, first and foremost, is [00:05:00] there a parallel between the two worlds, or do you believe they live in two completely opposite worlds?

Jeff Baldassari: It depends on what lens you look through. Yes, there are a lot of parallels. There is a lot of commonality. yes, There are some vast differences. But the commonality, I'd love to focus on for today's conversation, but I think the biggest thing that it comes down to is discipline. And looking at the things they don't teach you in law school, the book that I recently that I published, just recently, but I actually wrote it when I was practicing law, 30 years ago.

It's entitled From Associate to Ambassador. And it's about becoming something bigger than just a partner in a law firm, and how does one achieve that outcome. And what it boiled down to in the end, and we can get into some of the details is, it's those skills, and expertise, and disciplines, and values, they don't teach you in law school.

It's not about the substance of law. It's about the business portion of law. And 80% of what's in my [00:06:00] book could apply to any profession. And it boils down to those soft skills, those people skills that make a difference, how you manage, you know, motivate, inspire, and influence people. That's what it boils down to and that transcends from a small law firm of you know, 1-10 attorneys to, again, a thousand plus attorneys, you know, nationwide or internationally.

You have to master those skills that are all surround people, to be successful in your career.

MPS: Yeah, and those are important skills. And I definitely want to dive into that. I think, that's a very good parallel, to really not even just law to your point, really just to any business. And you also said something and you said it just so naturally, but I think it's something that a lot of law firm owners struggle with is that the fact that you fell in love and got fascinated with the business side of law too.

And so, many law firms have a hard time making that transition, from being a practitioner of law to [00:07:00] viewing their law firm as a business. So, Did you always have that mindset that it was a business? Or did you go in with a different mindset, and where did that change?

Jeff Baldassari: I did look at law as a business from day one. I, you know, I have being a business undergrad. I was trained that way. My father was a very successful businessman in his career. And so, I approached law that way. So, you know, You have to separate the craft from the operation of the craft. And you need both, obviously.

You have to provide some kind of a service, no matter what your business model is. And in this case, it happens to be the practice of law. But what you have to understand and go beyond the craft is like, how does that work? How does it fit in? And how do I grow and expand that? And also, make it more fulfilling, you know, more satisfying. And then also, creating that connection you know, to your clients, to your support staff, to your colleagues, because that's where the magic happens.

And also, the ease of, you know, it makes your job fun. And that's what does make it more fulfilling when you connect better [00:08:00] with people. One of the quotes I put in, actually at the beginning of my book, my father had shared with me, probably when I was in my 30s, early 30s. And he said, everything in life is easy, until people get involved.

And I didn't appreciate the importance of that statement until living it you know, for 30 years after hearing it. And that is, You know, you can put everything, anything you want down on paper, but that's not how life works. You know, When people start to get involved, it complicates things.

And again, that's where your ability to connect with people is so critical. So you know how to manage them. You know how to motivate them. You know how to inspire them, or you know how to influence them. And you also have to separate yourself from, as an attorney. Whether you're in a solo practitioner or a small firm, pull yourself apart for a second, from the craft of law, and look at as the operating this business, how am I going to make myself more significant, more relevant to my clients, within the community, to attract more clients, and to make a difference. And also, again, to be [00:09:00] fulfilled and be more profitable in this process. That's where you have to stand back observe it from a different perspective.

MPS: Let me be the first to tell you if you haven't been told, you are a unicorn in the legal space, to be able to walk in viewing it as a business. That is very much the rarity that we hear, which is great because it offers you a different perspective right out of the gate. Which also probably armed you to be more successful right out of the gate, not necessarily in the practice of law, but on the business side of law, which is awesome. And probably led to some doors opening because of it.

I want to pull on some of the strings from the book, because as you mentioned, you've got the book that just recently came out. And we were talking about this pre show. And I think, this is important because it lays the foundation a bit. Why'd you choose to write this book?

Jeff Baldassari: Because I wanted to be a corner office partner when I grew up. And I still haven't grown up. you know, I was with a big national firm, lots of things going on, you know, you're a young professional, and I [00:10:00] wanted to become a corner office partner. It was that simple. I wanted to be one of those guys or gals in the corner office. To me, there was some status. It was a different level of partner. But I served at the thing like, what makes them different?

In the Cleveland office, we had about attorneys, I would say, roughly. And so 28 or 32 of them, I think we had 7 or 8 floors, I can't remember now how many exactly there were, but 28 to 32 of them were corner office partners.

Well, What set them apart? You know, What made them special you know, over all the other partners? And you know, I just started taking notes through observation. And you know, it wasn't where they went to law school, it wasn't their practice of law, but it was their connection to people, in the end. And I started just again, looking and writing down in detail, what those attributes and skills and behaviors were, and they just aggregated.

And then ultimately, I had this big pile of observations. And then I just decided to write a book from that. And I did actually write the first draft of the book back in 1993. You can imagine pre internet, you know, the internet [00:11:00] existed, but not as a research tool. And I had a couple publishers who were interested in publishing it, but I didn't like the format they wanted to go about it. So I literally said, thanks, but no thanks, set it aside. And brought it back out last year to do a quick update, rewrite.

A lot of it was timeless, and that's the other thing that's key. A lot of the things that are in my book are the things I observed. We can talk a little bit about those details. They're timeless. been going on for a hundred years. They're going to be going on for the next hundred years, because they're people oriented. They don't have a shelf life to them. They don't go out of style. They are not replaced with technology or by technology.

They might be accelerated by technology, where the ease to doing them you know, increases, but the ability to do it will not disappear, the importance will not dissipate either. That's why I did it.

And I tell you, it's been a compass for me in my career. Like, Again, 80% of what's in this book, you could take anywhere. I mean, Probably, the most important thing would be networking because when you learn how to master to be a true networker, that's when your career takes off. [00:12:00] Because you start attracting, you have the right mindset, you're sending out the right vibes, and you're attracting the right clientele, and for people, as well. And it really makes a difference in your career, not only for yourself, but for those around you, that you, connect with and touch in your career.

MPS: I think, you're spot on with that. And I appreciate you sharing, what led to the inspiration of writing the book. You mentioned one of the big key topics was becoming a master networker. Talk about that a little bit. What can someone do? What, can a law firm owner do in that regard, to really become a master networker and why does that matter?

Jeff Baldassari: You have to be, I don't care what you do for a living, you must master networking, period. And so thing I learned later in my career, I wish I would have learned when I was 25 years old when I started networking. I will never forget the first time I went networking when I practiced law. I literally went, it was in Cleveland, it was at the University Club, it was the Ohio Venture Association, and Venture Capitalist Association. And I went to this luncheon. And the partner just said, go over to that table, sit down with those [00:13:00] folks, tell them what to do, you know, didn't give me much direction. And that was my pushed into the deep end of the pool as to how to network.

And so, not the best training, but it opened my eyes to this is how you find clients. But what I wish I knew then, which I learned years later is, when you're networking, it's not about you. You have to make it about your audience. You start all your conversations off with, how can I help you? You want to listen to the other person.

So, Michael, I wouldn't, if I started telling you, I'm, you know, I'm Jeff, I'm a solo I know, practitioner for law. My expertise is you know, labor law, whatever it may be. And I do this, This is what sets me apart in the labor law area. You're going to run. Because if you're not in the market for labor law attorneys, what do you care?

But if I started the conversation, Michael, tell me a little bit about yourself and tell me how I can help you? How I can make some introductions for you? Everyone loves to talk about themselves. Let the other person tell you about themselves, what they're looking for, and then start being a facilitator to make introductions.

Because most business [00:14:00] is generated not from that first introduction, even that second introduction. It's those third and fourth connections where things happen. But if you start to become known as a facilitator of connecting people, then people are going to come to you. As soon as you're done telling me your story and tell me who you'd like to meet, and I tell you, Hey, Michael, I got three people. I can introduce you to, I'll electronically introduce you today. Just give me a couple of sentences about yourself and what you do. I'll make an introduction and you take it from there.

Once I've done that, now you do want to hear my story, and you want to reciprocate. Now, not every single person is going to want to reciprocate, but most will. And when I've added value to your career in your life, you're going to try to find a way to reciprocate and do the same for me. So you may not be able to do it that moment. But maybe later, three months from now, six months from now, you're going to be talking to somebody, and they're going to bring up a labor law issue. and they're going to, And you say, Hey, I know a guy, I never practiced labor law, but I just use it for example. you know, Jeff's really good at labor law. Do you know Jeff? No, let me introduce you to him and you can learn more about what he does. And you [00:15:00] can speak highly of me. But if you start the conversation with networking with, tell me about yourself, tell me how I can help you. That's when the magic happens. And then that's how you, add value.

You're building relationships. You're not networking. You're building relationships. And when you build relationships, you create value and people will reciprocate. And the last part I'll add to this is, is attorneys, you got to get out of your bubble. Don't go to a networking event filled with a room full of attorneys. They ain't buying from you. And you are certainly not going to help your competition. I'm not saying to never, never go to those events. Because you want to have awareness of what's going on in the market. Also, you may have to do referrals. You may want referrals to come to you. But that should not be, people don't like to leave their comfort zones. So they want to go in a room full of attorneys.

Well, Go where the clients are. You can go do the attorney thing, as well. That's important. I'm not saying, it's essential, but not sufficient. So let's make that distinction. But where you need to go is where are the clients? So maybe you should go to [00:16:00] some private equity meetings, or, you know, if you're a transactional you know, attorney, or you can go to a local business or a chamber of commerce.

And again, just start facilitating at, you know, building relationships with others that are outside the practice of law. That I think will make you an incredible facilitator. You'll be building relationships. And that's how you should properly network. It'll exponentially grow your career in a very compressed amount of time.

MPS: No, I think that's great. And if I were to draw a couple conclusions there, it would be leading with value first and giving people the opportunity to talk about themselves and what they enjoy and what they're looking for and want to get out of something. And I agree with you from a networking perspective of trying to find new clients, you got to get out of your bubble.

We do believe in the power of connecting with other like minded law firm owners from a business perspective. And learning grow your business right and connecting and staying in tune in touch with what's happening in the legal space. But I'm with you there. And so, Networking was a big part [00:17:00] of that.

Talk to me a little bit more. So, there any other big takeaways you were going through, you know, how to become that corner office partner that you created in the book?

Jeff Baldassari: Mentorship. That's the second part. And mentorship does not have to come within your own, organization. So if you are a solopreneur, you know, a solopractitioner, that's fine. And obviously, there's no opportunity for mentorship within the firm. However, you can find mentorship easily outside the firm.

And again, this can come from your networking, where you meet a professional because that accelerates your learning. So, if you could learn something today and not have to learn it 10 years from now or 20 years from now, that puts you obviously farther ahead. And also, you can avoid making the mistakes of your, of your predecessors.

We learn more from the mistakes we make than the successes we achieve. And if others have achieved success, that's great. You can mimic, you know, Success leaves clues and you can mimic successful behavior. However, if I was mentoring you, Michael, and said, Hey, don't do this, you're going to [00:18:00] bang your head on the wall, it's going to hurt. You can listen to me and not do what I'm recommending. Or you could ignore me and go, I know better than Jeff, I'm going to do it, then you're going to bang your head. It's going to hurt. And you didn't have to go through that, but you chose to do that.

Just like I sure I did multiple times in my career, when I was younger. But through mentorship, you can avoid those pains. And also, they slow you down. And if you can accelerate stuff and again, learn those tricks to trade, you know, learn how to bypass certain things, but also, you know, it's the lessons learned from the actions. And why do we do it this way? Why is it done this way?

And also, what I do see happen more often than not in today's world is technology, is removing the personal connections. So people have laid the turn to their email, to their texting, and communicate in that manner, or even on a Zoom call.

Now, obviously you and I are on both ends of the country. can't get together in a room unless we meet in Kansas City, I guess, you know, something like that. However, the best thing [00:19:00] you can do is meet with someone face-to-face. There's something special about that. Whenever it's possible, sit down with somebody. There's some kind of a bond, I can't explain it. I'm not a psychologist, but there's something special about being in a room with somebody. If you can't, Zoom would be you know, next best. Third best would be a phone call. The last thing is, writing.

I mean, because There's so many ways of writing, can be misinterpreted, you know, and so on. You know, You can't convey the message the same way you can't show the body language, the tonality, it's all missing. you know. You could be an incredible writer, but still, it's not the same as sitting down and meeting with someone. So, you know, Those are the things I'd say.

MPS: You're right. so. It's interesting on that topic. I had a deal in a previous business that we were trying to get pushed over the edge, and the people I was working with on this deal were out in Manchester, England. And I remember, I was on vacation. And I got an email from them saying, Hey, you know, we really want to get things finalized, get next steps going.

And I had a choice to make. I [00:20:00] could have you know, met with him virtually or I could hop on the plane and go finalize the deal. And there is absolutely something to just hopping on the plane and going to finalize the deal, right? You get to experience what that person's really like.

You get to meet them face-to-face. There's just something to it. And I've heard this before in several podcasts, but when you have the opportunity, getting on the plane, figuratively, whatever the form of transportation may be, and going to actually shake someone's hand in person, there's more weight to that, and there's more power to that. And I couldn't agree with that more. so I'm, totally on board with, that advice.

I am curious from a mentorship perspective, because mentorship really in anything, but especially in the practice of law could be mentorship in the form of practice of law, or mentorship in the form of life and business.

in that direction, do you have a preference? Are you looking, Are you hoping that someone finds a mentor for both, one in the same, or one of those areas?

Jeff Baldassari: Find multiple [00:21:00] mentors. You know, just comes down to who can give you the best personal advice, life advice, who can give you the best practice advice, who can give you the best business advice. That's unlikely to be the same one individual to do everything. But also, it's great to have a couple mentors, even if they're in the same space, because it gets confirmation of, okay, both Jeff and Joe told me don't do this, I'll bang my head on the wall, it's going to hurt. Then maybe you're going to start believing it. and you know, it also it builds confidence in the advice you're getting.

I think also, just one last thing about being in person. If you think about being an attorney, you're an extension of your client. And I think it's very important for clients or potential clients to see you in person, to see how tall you are, what are your mannerisms like? Because do I want that guy or gal representing me? And, I'd be proud to be with that person, you know, that, and the professionalism, that's very, very important.

But I think, you know, And again, a mentor can help that out. It can help [00:22:00] tremendously in that regard, as well as to teach and sculpt, your, we're going to talk about that, your mannerisms and how do you conduct yourself as an attorney, not from an ethical standpoint. you know, You obviously have to learn that you know, in the practice of law. you know, How do you conduct yourself? When you walk in a room, you know, do you have a presence? Do people take note that, you know, all of a sudden, you know, Michael's walked in the room or Jeff's walked in the room, how do you gain that connection just from your physical presence? Are you going to be walking and turn into a, you know, a potted plant in the corner? You know, Nobody's going to hire that guy or gal. you know, Or if you're awkward, when no one's perfect. But again, you can get better at these things in practice. But I would agree, I would say, find multiple mentors.

They could be redundant, or separate, or all the above. I think, one mentor alone is not enough. Life is too complex. So you need more than one.

MPS: Yes. I agree with you. Having a mentor, a coach in different facets and areas of life is good. And it diversifies the different points of feedback you get to, and it's more specialized.

[00:23:00] So, look, there's a lot of great material you just went through. and, a lot of very valuable information that I think, whether it's a young lawyer that's just starting out or even a law firm owner in a small firm or even someone working in big law. I think to your point, it's applicable across the board. So I very much appreciate you sharing that information. I'm curious, What's got you fired up and excited today?

Could be personal, could be business, could be both?

Jeff Baldassari: I think, it's the continual learning. Just because you have a title, I've been fortunate enough in my career to be a CEO for more than two decades, but I never stopped learning. You know, I can learn from anyone. I can teach a lot and I can learn a lot.

And what gets me excited is, there's a book I just started reading about relationships called How to Be the Adult in The Relationship. Well, That could apply in your personal life and your professional life. I just ordered, I haven't started reading yet, The New CEO.

So again, what are the news? What are the latest trends? What are the obstacles, you know, professionals are overcoming? But I think that, you have to maintain some level [00:24:00] of business curiosity. You will never have it all figured out. Life is fluid. Life is dynamic. Business is fluid. Businesses dynamic. What worked yesterday may or may not work tomorrow.

There are certain things, you know, when it comes to dealing with people that are timeless. However, to learn better techniques, and to make yourself more efficient in achieving the outcome you want to achieve, or, you know, whether that be connecting with the person, making a difference, whatever it may be, it's always good to hear, again, this is kind of an indirect way of mentorship, because by reading or watching YouTube videos, whatever it may be,

MPS: Yeah,

Jeff Baldassari: you're going to listen to other people's experiences and how they tackle the problem similar to yours. Or how they capture an opportunity that you may or may not have considered, it's in front of you.

So, you need to keep that continuous business curiosity and to get better. You just want to keep getting better than you were yesterday. I think, that to me is what drives me every day.

MPS: think, that's wonderful feedback. And I think, you bring up a good point in the, continuous [00:25:00] learning, and making sure that you're always open and receptive.

We just recently partnered with a client on a workflow system for law. And he was talking about this system. And he's like, Yeah, when someone gets to the point and says, you know, I've got it, you know, I've got this dial and I've got it. He's like, They don't , they don't, It's something That's a sign that there's a lot more to come. And so, it's one of those things, you just always have to be open and receptive to new ideas, to feedback, and to continuous learning.

so Jeff, you've written this book. You've provided a, bunch of tremendous value to the audience today. Where can people grab a copy of this book?

Jeff Baldassari: Well, I have a website for my book. It's by the title, It's, www. FromAssociateToAmbassador.com. And everything you need to know about the book is there. So, a little background about myself, about the book, you know, what's the synopsis of the book. As well as, you can join the newsletter, [00:26:00] where every couple of weeks, you get a snippet of the book. And you can order the book from the website, So, you know, FromAssociateToAmbassador.com

And, you know, just, Again, it came from aggregating and observing, what the quarter partners, what values, skills, and expertise they possess. You know, They got them to where they were in their careers, and that's what the book's all about. And it was a fun journey.

And what's neat about the book is, it's interactive. So it's more of a workbook than just a passive reading this long narrative. You know, so there's, I think, it's about just under 200 pages long. And what I'll do, I'll have a point you know, to make, and I'll have a handful of three different quotes that'll support that point. And I'll have a short paragraph about the point I'm trying to make.

And then, it'll ask you to reflect, or to take action, to start mastering that skill, or to think back, when was the last time I did this, or what happened when I did that skill? And what was the outcome. And so, By having that, what you want to do when this book is over, you want to embed these [00:27:00] ideas and skills into your own personal daily behavior or your own DNA.

Because at the end, that's how you become a better professional. And so that's why, when I did the rewrite, over the last year, and then when it came out before publishing, was to make it so the takeaway would be more impactful, than just passively reading and only retaining a small amount. When you have to sit there and write down, on every page, something, that'll really, you know, again, embed that into your daily behavior or into your DNA.

MPS: That's excellent. I love that you developed a book in that way. I like workbook, style books. I, think, you're able to take, retain, and implement more with workbook style books. So I think, that's great. Well, Law firm owners listening, they're, you heard it. right. Make sure, you go grab a copy of the book.

Jeff was kind enough to share a ton of valuable insights today, something that everyone could pull from. And to the law firm owners, thank you for investing your time and listening. this is your first time listening or watching, depending on where you're doing that, make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button, turn those bell [00:28:00] notifications on, so you don't miss any episodes like this.

And we love producing this. This is your way of saying thank you. That's all we ask for in return. And then in addition, show Jeff some love down in the comments. I just know if you have any questions and just show them some love.

But Jeff, I just want to thank you, personally, for investing your time and providing some value to the audience today.

Jeff Baldassari: Hey, thanks, Michael. I enjoyed the conversation and the questions. and I hope, it helps a couple other people out in your listeners. It helps make their career a little bit better, and their practice a little bit more successful.

MPS: No doubt, it will. All right, Jeff, that's the pod.