and your listening to digital business, your way. Welcome to our special limited series. Launch style stories. In this series, we're diving deep into the true stories behind launching what it's like to find your way, the hard way. And what happens when you finally discover a launch style that fits. You'll hear from entrepreneurs who've been through well, some miserable experiences. Those who are still figuring it out. And those who found their groove and finally feel like they're thriving. Because launching isn't one size fits all and there's not only one way to do it. And I believe it doesn't have to feel like denying yourself to make money or just feel exhausting and something that you have to get through. This series is all about exploring what works, what doesn't And how you can cut through the guesswork quicker to find your way and your style sooner. So settle in because these stories might just change the way you look at launching and your business.

we're all about relationship building in the community building and also in the sales process. I really prioritize having deeper relationships and really pouring into the people in my world and having fewer people maybe. But the people that are there. really want to be there. And the people that are on my email list are consciously thinking about becoming buyers and they're emailing, you know, replying saying, Oh, this sounds great. Can't wait till doors open.

Today on Launch Style Stories, I'm joined by Natalie Koussa, a podcast guest strategist who helps coaches and online experts become the first choice name in their niche by landing guest spots on the podcast their future clients already Natalie has used podcast guesting not just for visibility, but as a powerful launch strategy One that builds deep relationships, attracts highly engaged buyers and leads to consistent sales without the burnout of traditional launches. But here's, what's really interesting. She doesn't launch all of her offers the same way. In this conversation, Natalie and I break down how she approaches launching her done for you. Podcast booking service versus her group program, how she tailors her sales strategy to different types of buyers and why the way people buy has shifted. If you ever felt like launch formulas don't quite fit, or you're looking for a way to sell that feels more natural. Well, this episode is for you. Let's listen in.

Hello, hello everybody and thank you for coming back and to you Natalie for being here with me. I'm so excited to have you here because you have not only become a lovely friend and these little interwebs that we play in But I've really like well I've leaned on your experience and all the knowledge that you have around this concept of using podcasting to Not just for like visibility, but actually for launching and for selling the programs, and I think that that is I mean I find it to be fun, right? Because there's a lot of pressure to pre create assets and to get all like your little ducks in a row. But I think there's something magic about just like hitting record, going live with somebody, just showing up and answering questions. And I kind of enjoy that about this podcast stuff. So when you and I were talking, um, on, on the back end about how podcasting can be used for launching, I was like, Can we record this? Can we talk about this? So thank you very much for being

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, yeah, cause it's um, you know, you're famous for getting entrepreneurs booked on their dream podcast and actually turning listeners into leads. And then you also mentioned how there is a difference between growing your list and actually getting people into the program. And I was like, I liked that intersection because again, that is the difference between growing your community and actually getting sales. Right? And everything that we do here in my little community is we actually talk about the sales part. Because there's nothing wrong with having and loving on your community, but we are a business and we need to make it sustainable. So we have to move that into the sales portion. Yeah?

Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the things that you and I really have in common is that we're all about relationship building in the community building and also in the sales process. So, I don't know how big your community is. Mine is really small compared to the revenue of my business. And it's because I really prioritize having deeper relationships and really pouring into the people in my world and having fewer people maybe. But the people that are there. really want to be there. And the people that are on my email list are consciously thinking about becoming buyers and they're emailing, you know, replying saying, Oh, this sounds great. Can't wait till doors open. Or it's not for me this time, but you know, I'm, I'm kind of looking at this for next year or, you know, there's a kind of relationship there in the sales process that I think if you. Build your community in ways that aren't as relationship focused as guesting on people's podcasts or, you know, actually having conversations with people. I think it can be, it just, when you're speaking on podcasts, it sets a tone for who you are and people come into your community already feeling like they know you. Because they do, because they've heard your voice, they've heard how you tell stories, they've learned some of your concepts, you know, they get, after they've spent that kind of half hour with you, they really get to know you. So they're coming in really warm and really wanting to be there and really informed and kind of really discerning about how they're spending their time and who they're hanging out with. So, and I think that's, you know, that's exactly the way that you grow your community and how you teach sales as well.

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And in that, that has been like a big part of that ethos, right? Because it's fun and it lets people lean on their own discernment, right? Versus like having any sort of like corrosion or force around, you know, I'm manipulating you and you must do these things because I'm churning you through this, you know, mechanical funnel that is so detached from me as a human that, you know, you're just, doing these things in like this autocratic way. Right. And instead, it's like, you're listening in on my conversations and we're here talking about these sayings and I know that like I'm in your earbuds and you're nodding away and you're like, yeah, that's right. You know, or you're like, actually, I don't agree. I'm sending you an email and letting you know that, you know, and, and I love that. You know, I love, that's why I have a very open forum. That's like, ask me anything. Like it's on, it's on every single link. It's on every single place on my website. I'm like, I want to know what these things are that are going through your head, you know, and, and that has that, kind of place where it's like, what else can I make for you? What else can we talk about? You know, what else can we do? And, and it lets that, creation aspect be very, um, well, I guess that's why it's called co creation, right? It lets it kind of be that very, almost like co conspirator.

Yeah, I love that word. Yeah.

that, that little insideness to it. Yes. Yes.

it is that discerning clients get brilliant results. You know, you really see. So I think about this a lot that we've all noticed a shift in, in biobehavior from, you know, from, COVID and everyone was just at home and had tons of, not everyone, but lots of us had tons of time and, you know, kind of all we were thinking about shifting careers. So we wanted to learn something, you know, just conditions in so many ways were ripe for the online business space. And now. We're in a very different space. People have been burned. People have wasted a lot of money. People haven't got the results thought they were going to get, you know, all of that kind of stuff. And I think there's so much chat about, Oh, it's harder to sell or revenue is dipping or, you know, there's so much of that kind of feeling in the online space. But what the flip side of that is my my revenue is has steadily increased over this time I think it's because yeah, it doesn't surprise me at all I think it's because the way that we both sell and the way that we both build relationships Really speaks to a more discerning kind of buyer so by the time they've listened to you on a podcast or been in your community or read your incredible emails and really kind of got a sense of Not just who you are, but But also what are the concepts that you're going to teach? Who are your other clients? What are the kind of results that your other clients are getting? So therefore, what kind of results can they expect? They come in prepared, they come in confident, they come in ready to get to work. And I'm seeing people, I mean, 2025 hasn't happened yet, so who knows, but in 2024, My clients were getting better results than ever because they were those kind of clients were like, okay i'm not just You know i'm not investing in 10 different things at the same time and i'm spread too thin And I have no real idea what my strategy is. I'm just gonna try a few things like no I I know what my strategy is. I'm investing in this thing only or you know a couple of manageable things And i'm going all in and i'm getting the work done, you know, and then kind of really creating those results. So to me This shift in buyer behavior Has it made things more challenging? Yeah, potentially depending how you were selling originally, but has it also created the potential for deeper relationships and better results? Absolutely

Yeah, exactly. Right. Because that's what's called market sophistication and buyer sophistication, right? And I did an episode in season one about this. If anybody wants to go back and dig into the geekdom of those words, but that kind of place where it's like, this is your opportunity to really differentiate yourself and to really stand out and to understand that this is a natural progression of an area of growth. Right. This is normal. This is not a panic. This is not one of those chicken little the sky is falling situations. You know, this is what you want to see whenever you are in an industry that is actually starting to stabilize and is actually going to have some longevity and be there. Before it moves up again and moves up again, right? Because I mean, we're, we're creeping up on the 30 billion and then we're going to get to the 120 billion. You know, this industry isn't something that is, going away. It is something that is progressing, right? So this, this is normal. And instead of people being like, Oh gosh, I want to learn this and I want to learn that and I don't know what else to do. And I'm just so excited, right? That those were more like impulse buy behaviors. Right, you know, whenever you go into a new store and you're like, Oh, I just don't know what else this is and you're like, I'll take this and this and this and this and this. Instead it's like, okay, I've been here before. I know what I'm doing. I'm gonna be a little bit more strategic about what I'm putting into my cart, right? And the cart isn't just your website. The cart is the entire internet. So that's why it feels a little bit different for everybody. Yeah, because it's like the internet is one giant store and everybody's picking from the aisles which are the different ones of us deciding like which ones are actually going to make it in the cart and which ones are we browsing for this time and what's a one day and what's a not for me, right? You know because it's actually a beautiful thing when someone knows that it's not for them. Because it's going to lead to greater customer satisfaction. It's going to lead to greater loyalty, right? And just because they've decided it's not for you now doesn't mean they're not Recommending you to someone who they they're like, oh gosh, this isn't for me, but it is perfect for somebody else Right. You know, and, and that, that, that, that's a great thing. and it's not completely the topic we're talking about, but how can I not, how can I not clear that up for anybody listening?

That's a great little detail, I loved it. I've learned something today anyway, so that's great.

yeah, you know, cause it, it's, that, that is that, that beautiful progression. And, and this is where I tell everybody, it's like, we have to go back to, to those, Foundations of business are the same foundations. They're actually the same strategies. The difference is the tactics. It's how we're applying those individual parts that make us, us right. And that, that's why I created this whole style series. And it's like, you know, we're right now we're doing the launch one, but we also have the offer one in the sales one, because it's like, I know I want to get myself out there. I know I want to get it out there in an evergreen way. I know I want to get it out there in an on off way. What are all my options? So in the same way that as a buyer, they get to go into this big store of the internet and pick and choose what they have in their cart as the creator, as the sellers, we can also walk in and be like, Oh gosh, I have all these options. What do I want to pick and choose and put into my cart? And so often, we either don't know that that's out there, or we kind of get lost in, in, in the flashy, you know, kiosk display at the end of the aisle that's like, If you want the, the cleanest, whitest shirt in the world, buy just this one detergent. Right? That's the same way that people advertise their programs. If you want this result, then you have to follow my program, and you have to follow it exactly. And it's like, well, hang on. What kind of audience do I have? Is it the same? Am I building the same kind of business? Do I want to run a business like that? Do we have the same kind of offer suite? You know, there's all these little pieces that go into it that decide that determine your own outcomes. But also, is it really going to be what fits you? And instead it's like, let's appreciate the parts about it that are good, but let's also leave the parts that don't work for us. And let's pick some of the others that do work for us. Right? And, you know, and that's some of that you have discovered as you have done your, um, like your society and also your, um, like, like the program that you open and close. You've done both. You've had like, I don't want to call it a membership if you don't call it a membership, but like you had the speakeasy part, and then you also have the, like you have a done for you, you have a DIY, like you have all of these different ones. Have you found yourself trying different launch methods depending on the offer? Or have you found yourself trying different launch methods as you wanted to try different things for like your particular season of business?

Both. I love this question. Tony says, yeah, I love it. So, I, so I sell my Done For You service, that's where I book out a podcast tour for people, very differently to the Speakeasy, which is my group program, so that's DIY. the Speakeasy is, Until now it's been launched like very kind of strictly open close And only now it's going to evergreen and it's going to have launches. I'm going to do kind of a layered thing So that's my experiment for 2025 that it's going to be evergreen and and the kind of launch thing The done for you. Yeah, um, and I think it will really work for my personality and also for my audience So we can totally dive into kind of why why i'm trialing it and you know My my thinking behind that if you'd like to but then my done for you That's just open all the time, you know, and then when I get fully booked people join the waitlist and they kind of can book in advance But what I found is That they're very different I don't want to say levels of business owner, but they they have a different level of business It's a better way to say it. So they're coming to the decision in a very different way. So people The typical buyer journey for my done for you is they hear me speak on a podcast that's by far The majority of the people that come and work with me done for you hear me on a podcast They sign up for my private podcast, which is my opt in at the end. They listen to one episode and then they Open, you know, maybe one or two emails in the book of sales call. So it's a really, really fast buyer journey. And I think part of that is because the service is so dialed in because they get to know me, hearing me on a podcast. So they very quickly get a sense of whether I'm for them or not. And, you know, kind of here's some of my concepts and how the actual process will work. But also there are a level of experience where they can make these very quick buying decisions because they're not just hearing me on a podcast and thinking, Oh, a podcast tour will be cool. Let me try that. No, they're listening because they already have podcast guesting on there, you know, in their visibility strategy for the year. So now they're just picking between people and then, you know, who will I choose to book out a podcast tour? So that by agenda can be really fast. Um, you know, I guess,

right? They're, they're seeking out the option that works for them and they might not have known about you, but they're like, Oh my God, this sounds perfect. Like the, this sounds like the exact cleanest way. Let me validate her by listening to more, by reading a couple emails, by hearing what she says when she's not guesting. Right. You know, like what does she say? Kind of behind closed doors, you know, by listening to the private version. And then it's like, yep, dope. I'm in.

that's the done for you. And then the speakeasy, which is a group program. So DIY really, people have very, very different, they have a different buying style and they have very different questions. So people that are coming into the speakeasy, they, some people still buy very quickly. some people join my email list and they buy. Watch a few launches go by and then join when they're ready And I think the distinction is that when you're in an earlier stage of business And there are there are people inside the speakeasy that aren't like that There aren't any super early people. Most people within the speakeasy are at 50k a year And upwards and some much higher than that. So it's not that they're beginners But it is that when you're at the kind of 50 to 100 and you know a bit above 100 Annual revenue you are still at the stage where you're experimental And you're thinking okay cool. So i've tried this kind of visibility or tried this kind of sales process and I loved it. Let me go deeper into that. Or typically what my people say is, I've already spoken on a few podcasts. I've signed a few clients from podcasts, and now is the time to go all in. Now I want your help to really refine my strategy, to really go through my talking points so that when I'm on a podcast, I'm making the most of every single opportunity and I'm creating those bigger opportunities. So there's a different motivation, I think, which then leads to a kind of different Buyer behavior in in that journey.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, rightly so, because it's not just like the kind of offer, right? Because in the sense of, you know, evergreen, open, closed versus, like, always open, but, different pathways for your agency side. That's obviously a capacity issue, right? Because the agency has that, has that limited capacity because you were so hands on, right? So that's going to naturally reach a peak unless you expand agency, which obviously has a whole other realm of business burdens that it's like, Hmm, is that even a road I ever even want to consider? Nope. Okay, cool. This wait list, you know, has, um, it works. Let's do it. Let's keep doing it this way, right? Whereas the DIY side, it's like, okay, that is something that is, um, we'll use the word simpler, simpler to scale. Yeah, so now it's more, do I have the personal energy and capacity to, to scale it? You know, at what point do, can I hold this place for them versus I'm needed in the agency side? You know, it's like, where am I having the community manager over here? Or do they hold two hats because they also work in the agency side. Right. So it's like looking at your back end business structure and you're like, at what, what needs my attention? Cause everything in business has, has these trade offs. Sometimes it's budget. Sometimes it's capacity, like meeting energy. Sometimes it is just straight up money, you know? And it's like, where am I going to feed this attention? And what am I going to do? Right. So there is that, model element for, you know, this idea of always on, always off, um, you know, kind of open close situation for the, for those binary launch experiences, but I would say more importantly, because that we can be more flex with on the back end is that audience behavior, right? It's like, what do we do? Like, how long is someone going to wait? Like how long, like when they're in, they're in, right? Like, you know, where do we want to hold space for them? And it's like, maybe the container that we thought of just isn't the right kind of container, right? So like if, if we think about the DIY side and you're going, okay, well I did this open close, but maybe I can have more of like this evergreen style because you've had people who've probably had to wait lists and it's like, okay, well could my conversion rate have been different? Then it's like, maybe I needed to just change the container in order to make my launch style. Has that ever been, probably not in those words, cause those are my weird words, um, you know, like been that kind of thinking that you've gone down?

Yeah, so it's it's more that i've been thinking that My and the longer you have an offer the more you get to know your ideal clients and who's a brilliant fit for it And the more you can really just hone in on on those people So that's been been the process over the last two three years that i've had the speakeasy and My people are really ambitious, they're deep thinkers, and they're also kind of free spirits, like, they are not the kind of people, so, you know, the, that the kind of very hands off evergreen process that you were talking about before, and it's all kind of quite mechanical and there are deadlines and, you know, my people, They're just like, no, I'm not, that's not how I want to buy, you know, that, that just does not feel good to them at all. So even if it was exactly the same offer, even if they were going to get exactly the same results, have the same experience inside the offer, it's just not a buying process that would bring them into the offer. My people really want to make their decisions ahead of time. In launching, one of the things that I really have learned the hard way is that it's all about pre launch. It's all about, and not in a hypey, Oh my God, this is going to be so amazing. Let's do three masterclasses and two challenges and not in that kind of way.

for eternity. Mm

let me design this prelaunch so that by the time doors open, they know the concepts that are inside. They know exactly who this is for and what success they can expect. They know the feeling of it. They know what the curriculum is like, you know, all of that kind of stuff. And they've had every single hesitation. Yeah, but is this for me? Essentially, you know, that's what we're answering all the time in sales. Like it looks great. But will it work for me because da da da da da, whatever their particular situation is.

Mm hmm.

Yeah, we're all special. We are answering that question in a million different ways, isn't it? And I found that when I've had a longer pre launch, I can write all the emails that actually answer those questions and I can meet people where they are so that by the time doors open, they're like, great. I can't wait. I'm in. Let's go. What my community anywhere don't want people doing is making the decision in that week or so when doors are open. So I tend to have a longer pre launch and I can hold the energy of a pre launch so much more easily as well. Like my capacity to kind of be present and not feel pressured and all of that is so much higher in pre launch. And then for launch, a week or so. Feels plenty for me, even if I've got everything done in advance, even if you know that I'm not actually working on the launch in when doors are open a week or so gives enough, I focus on overcoming hesitations when the doors are actually open, and there's only so many hesitations that people have, you know, so a week or so is plenty, and then they're making their decisions in pre launch, and they feel during the launch. Like I have people coming in sometimes saying. I knew I was going to join but I was loving your email so I just waited to the last day to join because I wanted emails and you know but so the vibe of it is very like I know I'm in I you know I'm going to join instead of I think sometimes when you when you have a shorter pre launch and people have to connect the dots a lot more for themselves. And then by the time doors are open, there's that deadline doors are closing on Wednesday, you know, whether or not you've, you've got extra kind of pressure tactics going, people are really aware of that. So there's a kind of layer of, like pressure to their thinking, whereas I want my people to make their decisions for a place of feeling really peaceful and really just at ease and Yeah, cool. This is going to be great for me. And do investment decisions sometimes feel edgy? Yes, of course. We're never going to change that. And I actually don't think that's a bad thing, but I think that's very different to feeling, Oh my God, I've got to make a decision because it, it closes in 24 hours and I don't know whether now's the right time and da da da da. Yeah.

Yeah, which is fake, right? That that's it's it's false scarcity and it drives me nuts. And you know, and like and as you were describing your audience, it's like they can smell that, you know, they don't want that kind. They don't want that detachment. Instead, they want that that connection, right? And so what you've done is you've blended speed, but also with, um, like, like an expansive container. Right, because, so this is something that, that we were talking about offline that we can bring into here where. you know, you've, you've recognized through trial and error, you have recognized where your energy levels need to be higher and where they dip. Right. And then that's something that we pull out in your launch style. It's like we help you figure that out without having to go through the trial and error of like an on launch and offline. But it's like, you know that you can hold that space and you have that capacity in the pre launch. So that way, during that launch, you can lean into more of those automated processes. You know, you can, like, have that kind of, set system that's, like, mechanical in the good way, right, where, where we're using those automations to kind of be like, this is open, this is closed, this is where I need to step in, in the human element, because I have had that connection, I've had that space, I've done all of this, this work during my pre launch time, versus whenever people feel like they have to do, like, you know, this, Two week or 30 day time in prelaunch and that's all they get and then they have to do a 10 day or 14 day Cart open. Oh, no. Wait. I was only supposed to do seven day. Oh gosh. What am I doing now? Kind of panic, you know cart open situation and then they're still holding that live energy and then it's like oh I didn't hit my sales. So maybe I need to write another email and hold this. Oh wait now my program starting tomorrow Right, you know and instead it's it's like wait, where is this blend? Where is this mix? where can I lean on things that I can recycle and Where I can I can like use over and over again because my humans need me at this point And then I can take a bit of a breather at this point you know that this part can be that little more rinse and repeat because I am Pouring into them over here instead Right, and for different audiences, and sometimes for different offers, but for the most part it's for different audiences, you have recognized that that's in that pre launch, because your people, they want that fast action with the taster. Right, so you have given that to them during that pre launch part, so that way the launch part is just that bam, bam, bam, bam. It's like, I'm digging the emails, which is the only reason why I haven't bought, but don't worry, I'm here.

Just meant to compliment but yeah.

Yeah, right, which also means, hey, these are cool, I can use these again. right? It's like, so I'm not having to retweak them every time. I'm not having to write them live in the moment. Every time these are resonating, these are hitting, I'm definitely going to debrief and evaluate, you know, I'm not just going to sit on my laurels, but you know, this is, this is where I can be like this sequence, this sequence works because I'm live energy pouring into them over here. We're having these connections, we're talking to people. And I'm curious for you. Are you meta? Like, are you having podcast experiences with them? Are you finding they prefer live video? Are you like DM talking? Like what are those like connections? Is it everything in prelaunch? Is it tailored? Like what, what do you play with there? Okay.

use podcast guesting as my lead gen and you know my way of community building and my way =of meeting other people's audiences and inviting them in so that's Podcast guesting is my main way that I do that. Yeah, I pop up on social, I do a few other things, but podcast guesting works so well for me that that's really where I pull my energy into. So then when people come in from podcast guesting, the, I've changed recently, actually. So it used to be that I kept it super, super simple and it was podcast guesting and then email. That was it. There was very little else. And then, and that worked really well because both of those plays my strengths. I write really good emails. I'm a decent podcast guest. Um, so, you know, they, they really, I suppose, because both are relationship builders in a bit of a deeper way, you know, you have that they're both more long form. Yeah. And I'm intimate. Yeah. So that was how I used to do it. That worked really well. Um, and then over time I've layered in extra connection points. So I think of them as like trust touch points. That's what I call them. So every kind of layer is another opportunity for you to meet people where they are and meet them how they want to. the launch. So first I laid in my private podcast, um, which worked so well. The conversion rate for my private podcast is amazing. It's, um, I can't remember the exact number off the top of my head, but even with a very few number of people going through it, it makes like a really disproportionate amount

So is this a second one from, cause you mentioned a private podcast for the agency side. So is this also one on the

It's the same one. It's exactly the same one that people can see. Yeah. So it shares some of my concepts and it talks about the results that you can expect, and kind of different results for different business models and all that kind of thing. I've actually got a new private podcast. It's going to flip slightly. And the new private podcast is called Tap into trust, how to bring a hundred people into your community on repeat by speaking on podcasts. So it's going to be a lot, actually it's, it reflects a lot of the kinds of things that we're talking about, but you know, changes in buyer behavior and why long form content and intimate content and world building content, you know, meets people where they are. So that was the first layer that I put in. And then only pretty recently actually i've started playing around with doing my like micro trainings that are on demand and live master classes and really kind of Showcasing my teaching style and that has had an incredible impact on the group program because I think it's just that extra level of There are some people out in these online streets that are incredible marketers, but they're much stronger marketers than they are teachers or coaches or, you know, and that's fine in lots of ways. Like that's just their strengths. So hopefully they've got a business model that kind of supports that being their strength. That's not my strength. I'm, I'm better in reverse. I'm more confident within my group program. I prefer smaller spaces. I really like going deep with people. You know, I really know every single person inside the speakeasy. Okay. I know their business model. I know who they are. You know, I really kind of connect with them on that level. So I think for me, layering in different kinds of experiencing how I teach and experiencing what it's like to be in a group is really helpful because the The more in depth we go, the stronger I get. So people kind of get to see actually me at my best. Whereas for lots of people, them at their best is a big masterclass or a bit, you know, uh, I, you know, Instagram where, where it's all kind of quite fast moving. And that's incredible, but that's just not my strength. So the more that I lean into my strength and launching, the better it's doing and the better people are responding.

Right. Because you are that magic part. It's like, where is it that I can really bring that energy that I can bring that flair and that style, but it also shows people what it's like to work with me, you know? So, so it's like, what is this container look like? What are they going to experience and how can they have some of that now? You know, because then they know what it's going to be like inside the container. Right? Because we don't want them to have that whiplash effect and be like, wait, who is it? Wait, what did I buy? Who is this person? Refund. Refund. Like, hang on. What's going on? Right? And instead it's like, oh my gosh, this is so fun. I'm learning so much from her. And that's the true variation of, oh, if I'm learning this much now, what much more am I going to get later? Right? It's one of the biggest things I teach people is to actually sell with the how. Do not hold that back. Because the key is actually the now what? Because that's what creates that loyalty and that longevity. Because if they're getting some of that taste or some of that how with you now, then they're like, oh my gosh, if I can get this win, if I can do this, now what's gonna happen? Now what's next because there's always another how there's always a deeper right and a more and a more and a more and like You and I we both work with more experienced entrepreneurs, you know, we're not like yes people who are newer they're always welcome to come to us, but the people that that we Typically work with and that you know, we are aiming for I guess you'd say are more in that, you know mid Right? They've been around a while. They've tried a lot of things. They have that experiences under their belt, and so they're a bit more honed in on what they're looking for. Right? And so they're like, I need something different or I'm after this. You're the one that's gonna help me do that. And and so they're they're seeing that. Okay, we're not just a shiny post. Oh, we're not just a sound bite. Oh, we're not just at this because they're getting all of those. And you have found that by doing this, like trial and error with you. Yeah.

I think the more experience you get, the more you understand that the, like the, the benefits and the real success don't just come from understanding the framework or even understanding why you're doing it in those ways. It comes from The nuance of somebody being able to tweak the framework to fix, you know, to meet where you are. Um, and that's, you know, that's exactly, I mean, you do it so explicitly in all of your work. I do it more implicitly. So within the speakeasy, of course there's a framework. Of course it takes people through, you know, here's how to find the right podcast. Here's how to pitch. Here's how to show up as a brilliant guest. You know, here are the messages. messaging points that, you know, that will help you tell brilliant stories and help you move people closer to you, but they're never just, it's not one and done. It's not just churning out carbon copies of, okay, tick, tick, tick. I've done ABC. Like, of course it's not that. And I think more seasoned entrepreneurs really understand that they're not looking for the secret thing or the, uh, you know, the one thing that's going to change their trajectory. They really understand that. At its heart, entrepreneurship is about getting your messaging right about knowing how to get in front of the right people about having a sales process that works, you know, it's all the fundamentals that when you tweak one, it lifts everything. And so that's what people are looking for. And I think that's what we can reflect in the sales process as well.

Yeah. And, and that's, that's been a lot of, um, it, it's a lot of fun. Like that's part of that, uh, micro action strategy that I talk about. I bring those elements into all of the programs that I do. Right. Where it's cause entrepreneurship is experimenting. It's what we do. And that's a lot of that stretchiness and the thing that we need to get comfortable with. Probably more than anything, right? It's like, we're, we're always figuring it out, you know, where we're always trying to see what it is, but how can I figure it out quicker? You know, like, like what, what's the thing where it's like, oh my gosh, if I just slightly turn this dial, then it just like hits all these other things, you know, and, and so I'm curious, like, cause we talked a lot about how you do the launching, but since you're helping people with their launching with it, right, using this as like a prelaunch style. What have you seen in like hesitations and when they've done that little stretch when they've turned that little dial and they've given it a go? Like what have you seen inside of your program where they're like, oh my gosh, now that I've tried this, like, I wasn't sure, but I wanted to go all in. Like I had this feeling. Now I've seen it out there in the world. I'm so glad I've done it. Like I've made these little tweaks. I've done these little changes and now this has been like really amazing.

Yeah. So for people that are at that experimental stage of launching, and to be honest, I think everyone is. I think even when you look at the huge industry leaders, if you follow their launches, they did change, you know, some aspects launch to launch, even though there is a repetition We're all, as you said, entrepreneurship is about being experimental. And. Even if you find something that works incredibly for you you can't stand still because the market shifts and other people start doing what you're doing because they see it's working well so then it becomes normal. You know, there's all of these, everything shifts around you, doesn't it? So you can never stand still in entrepreneurship. You've always got to be pushing the boundaries and experimenting and trying something new. So when people come to me and they want to layer in podcast guesting into launching, typically The kinds of hesitations they have are, will this be strong enough so that I can lean back from social? That's like a really common one. That social isn't meeting my people where they are, it's, it's not growing anymore, it's not working for lead generation, it's not even really working for nurturing anymore, so I need an alternative for And for that, I mean, spoiler, yes, podcast guesting works incredibly well for that. Because if you think about it, you're literally Every single time you speak on a podcast, you are getting personally introduced to that host's community. And that host has been, like, hosting a podcast is not an easy thing to do. It takes time, energy, money, you know, people, podcast hosts, Pour into their community and you end up with this very trusting relationship between the host and their community. That's why if you look at the stats, you know, podcast listeners are so loyal. They want to listen to the same show at the same time, or even if it's not the same time, in the same kind of habit, you know, they'll have a particular show they love listening to at the gym, another show they love listening to and they're folding the laundry or walking the dog. You know, it's all kind of very, we, We listen to podcasts in a very intimate way. They fit into our lives in a really intimate way. So when you speak on podcasts and you get personally introduced to their listeners, there's that transfer of trust that happens immediately. The host is basically saying, Hey, meet this person. I think they're cool. You will too. You know, I, I met my husband by getting set up. One of, one of our mutual friends said, do you want to be my friend? I think you'd really get on. And you know, it's, it's exactly the same thing. It's kind of similar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. so, so there's that, so there's always this real strength of relationship that happens. The other thing about podcast and this can be really helpful with launching is in those moments where you're tweaking your messaging and you're kind of thinking, you know, Last time, this particular messaging worked really well. This pillar didn't work so well. How do I tweak it? When you're speaking on podcasts, it's in conversation. So it never comes out the same twice. Anyway, you don't want to be a robot. It's not about learning your talking points and off you go. It's not a lecture. It's a conversation with the host. So it gives you this really supportive um, really, um, kind of open space to just play with your messaging and every single time you speak about it, even if you're like the actual messaging is dialed in the stories that you tell will come out slightly differently, or the, you know, the, the questions that the host asks will help you think about it in a slightly different way. So every single time you speak on a podcast, you're developing your messaging.

Yeah, which is, it has that, ability then to like cascade into other areas. Right? And it grows that confidence too, because you're like, Oh, well, that, that was, how did I even just say that? I really liked that, you know, and it has, it has kind of those little fun things or it's like, Oh, okay. That, that was a little wonky or that didn't work really well. I need to, you know, kind of try that again, or I need to see, you know, how, how that was. and, and, and I liked that. I liked that.

That's right.

It. So as, we're talking about, like a lot of the parts on your launch style is talking about how you want to actually go into the, the selling of it. Right. But as you and I know, because we've done this before, and as hopefully most of the listeners know. Launching is just another word for promoting. So that actually does include the promotional part in the beginning, the pre launch, right? It includes the brand awareness building that you're doing all the time around it, right? And it includes the actual selling portion. So we use this term launch to really mean a very, long period of time. Yeah. So something that will happen inside of your launch dial is people like you will come in and you'll guest coach and you'll have like wonderful times with my humans. But if there was like a tip that you had for those who are listening right now, maybe it's around, um, like the timing, like, when do you even do this? What, what's the most important thing? Or if it's like, I'm still not sure this hesitation, like, what is something that you would love to leave people with? Around, you know, using this tactic cause they're like, Oh gosh, this sounds, this sounds fun, you know, but now

fun.

how, right? Like it sounds fun, but also a little intimidating. Like how, you know, what would you love to tell them?

Great. So I'll give the perfect answer and then I'll give the, and if that doesn't work, you can do it this way.

The reality answer.

Yeah, sure, yeah. Let's start with Perfect.

Yeah.

So, if you've launched a few times before and you have a sense of how long typically people, like the buying journey is. So, what's the gap between somebody joining your email list and then joining your offer? We want to know that time frame. If you know that timeframe, you want to be speaking on podcasts four to six weeks before that, just so they have time to, so obviously you record, you pitch, then there's going to be a little gap, then you're going to record, then there'll be a little gap, and then it'll come out. What I have found is that if you just say to hosts, Hey, I've, you know, I'm opening doors for, for my offer on whatever date, they're typically so happy to bump your episode, if they can, you know, if it's doable within their schedule, they'll just Bring your episode forward. So always ask, you know with an open mind let them say no if it's not going to work But so you want to be speaking on the podcast four to six weeks before that moment where you want people joining Your list but then it will say as well That what I see is that if somebody joins your list from hearing you on a podcast They have a much shorter biojourney So I mean, I'll give you the figures from I'm a real geek. So if you want stats, I'll give you the stats from from my business because I've actually just been looking at this. So if somebody finds me from social media, it typically takes 100 days for them to then work with me. Whereas if they find me on a podcast it takes 30 days. On average. So it's like three times faster. Yeah. So all I have to say, don't discount it. Don't, you know, if the timings that I've just given you thinking, Oh my God, you know, that's never going to work. Just pitch a couple of podcasts. Have a, you know, just get started with it. And then you can go all in on a full podcast tour for the next launch. So that's the perfect way. The imperfect way is guesting is evergreen. That's one of the like real, real benefits of it. And one of the real benefits of being a guest is once you've recorded that episode and it's out there working as magic, you can promote that episode whenever you like. So it doesn't have to be a fresh episode to get fresh people listening to it. You can just wait until that moment where, you know, six weeks before or whatever, and you can start re promoting that episode. Podcasts that you've spoken on so you kind of create a secondary podcast without having to do new episodes So that's why I recommend it can be so much easier than people think it is

I love that. I love that. Yeah. And one of the techniques that, I personally use, and that I actually started using because of guest coaching and teaching, is like not just sending people to a specific like freebie, but I actually use a specific page where I can play with the freebies that are showcased. Right. So I call it my connection page and, and I have like a little QR code for it, but that also is like a way to help make it a bit more evergreen, right? So, so maybe you're like, oh, okay, well, well, we talked about this one and I gave this link, but now I feel really awkward because maybe I'm not showcasing that one, or maybe the URL has changed or, or, oh gosh, do I go back to the host and do I give them a, you know, ask them to change my links and all the things and, or do I, you know, try to go into my. My, my internet world and fix it. And I don't know what to do. Right? You know, and it's like, okay, well, what are ways where we can actually make it streamlined? You know, what are the ways that we can actually make it? So knowing your numbers, finding your data, realizing that this is a before thing, right? Because we're, we're talking about building brand awareness all the time with it being evergreen. Right? And that's another. It's like, where are these places where we can, make this work for you. Instead of us trying to juggle more things and, and thinking, how do we do this right? What do we do? And it's like, okay, well what if I had this one page and then I can play with the things otherwise, right? And, and those kinds of, of things are, um, fun little ways, you know, that, that we get to play with with it.

It makes life so much easier. And a little tip for that page, because I teach the same thing and I do the same thing, is have it as simple as you can, as memorable as you can. Especially if you're sharing it on podcasts, not everybody that's listening is going to be bothered to go into the show notes and click and you know, all that. So, What you should do if you want to make it really simple is just have so for me nataliekoussa. com you know whatever your website is slash and then just use one word and have that word as something your people want because it kind of sparks like oh yeah that you know I actually want to click that so mine is nataliecusa. com slash visible that's the one I've, I've shared that on pretty much every single podcast I've ever spoken on. And of course it changes. And of course, when, you know, I might've been promoting something a bit different two years ago, of course, then than I am now. But if people, this is the speaking on podcasts and building relationships, create so much leeway when you, when you're not in that transactional, okay, here's a Facebook ad. Now I'm promising you this specific thing. And then, you know, da, da, da, da, da. And people can feel that it's very, okay. automated and transactional. It's the absolute opposite of speaking on podcasts when they get to know you and then they get to the landing page and you said it was a private podcast about X, Y, Z, but actually it's a private podcast about the new thing. They're like, cool, they're doing something new. Let me sign up. You know, it's going to take the pressure out of it. Creates a bit more humanity, you know, and a bit of bit of like understanding that things change and we develop and we want to share something different.

exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yes. And, and that, and that is the beauty of it is that our businesses evolve and they're not pivots. It's not done. You know, burning everything to the ground. It is a natural evolution of growing and experimenting with what we do, you know, and hopefully for you listening, that hearing how, you know, Natalie has found their, their style. It shows you how important that it is to find what works for you and what works for your audience. You know, and that, that beautiful intersection of knowing those things. And if you've been feeling stuck, you know, like, um, you know, I just feel like I keep going back and forth and I'm not really sure what to do anymore. Well, that is exactly what your launch style was made for and I would love to have you in that program. so it is Traciepatterson. com slash your launch style and um, The spots are open and we will be there and there will be more to this limited series But in the meantime, we hope to see you again soon. And thank you so much natalie for being there

Thank you, Tracie. It's been a fab conversation.

Thank you for joining Thank you for joining me on this episode of Launch Style Stories, and I hope it sparked something for you. If you've been listening and thinking, oh, I need to find my way to launch without burning out second guessing or forcing myself into someone else's formula, well, that's exactly what your launch style is here to help with. Inside the program, we cut the trial and error and help you create a launch approach that fits your strengths, your business, and your energy. So selling never feels like an uphill battle again. Head to Tracie Patterson. com slash YLS to learn more and join us. And if you loved this series. Let me know, share your biggest takeaway, DM me, or leave a review. It helps more business owners like you find the show. I'll see you inside your launch style.