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I am Leah Frolick and I am mostly a flight instructor.

AV Nation what is going on?

And welcome back to the Pilot the Pilot podcast.

My name is Justin Seams and I am your host.

Today's episode is with Leah.

Leah is a CFI and you've probably seen her pop up on your Instagram for you page or homepage, explore page, whatever Instagram calls it.

I don't have TikTok should probably get on it might help out a little bit.

But anyways Leah comes on the podcast and she just talks about her journey, her love of aviation, how she has some doubts about if she could even do this in the beginning and how she overcame those doubts.

Avia Nation I really hope you enjoy this episode.

It was a lot of fun to record with her.

I really love her style, I love how she's going about filming for aviation and doing her content.

So check her out on Instagram, should be a link down below or you can find a tag that I do on Instagram as well.

But it's a great episode, I really hope you enjoy it.

Please, please, please.

We are 11 reviews away on Spotify for 1000 reviews, which is absolutely insane.

So please leave a review if you haven't already and if you already have, maybe leave another one if you're allowed to, I don't know but grab your dad's phone, grab your mom's phone and leave a review.

Preferably five stars but you know if you got some criticism let me know.

Maybe in an email, not in a review, but Heavy Nation.

I hope you're having a great day.

And without any further ado, here's Leah.

Leah, what's going on?

Welcome to the Pilot to Pilot podcast.

Thanks for having me.

We finally made it work.

Finally.

It's been a minute, but this is usually how it goes.

I mean, I'll.

I'll DM someone and like, six months later, it's like, all right, we're finally doing it.

Yeah.

I mean, you probably have two pilot schedules, and it's just, like, impossible.

It is not the easiest, that's for sure.

But I'm very intrigued about your story, especially how you started off by saying mostly a cfi.

So I look forward to getting any of that, kind of figuring out everything that you do in aviation.

But.

But I always want to start at the beginning.

I always want to start about the why.

So why did you even want to become a pilot in the first place?

You know, it's so crazy.

Pilot wasn't even on my radar at all.

I was always very much, like, on a path of, okay, fitness, physical therapy.

Like, that's what I'm doing.

And I was actually in the.

I was in a physical therapy program, and my mom had remarried a pilot, and so he had a plane, and he took me up and, like, I was hooked.

That was the instant I was hooked.

So I was like, whoa, this is crazy.

I was like, this is so fun.

And then, you know, my mom was like, why don't you do it?

And I was like, what?

And she's like, yeah, why don't you become a pilot?

You know?

And he was kind of in my ear, too, because that's been his passion.

And so he was sharing his passion and, you know, trying to get me to go and start pilot training.

So that's.

That's really how it happened.

And then, you know, I finished my program just for a backup plan, you know, in case the pilot stuff didn't work out.

But I really haven't looked back since I started training, and I was doing my physical therapy stuff in between, and then I just, you know, I was working in an office.

And, I mean, I do.

I do love helping people, genuinely, but it was like going into the office every day, and you don't get to see the sun, really, unless it's through a window.

And I was like, this is not.

This is not for me.

I can't do this anymore.

So, yeah, just like, full throttle, you know, I left that behind and just got right into all of the training and everything.

Isn't it crazy how things work?

Because, like, if it wasn't for him, there's probably no way you would have ever gone in a small airplane, ever taken flight, ever started recording yourself flying.

Like, this would have never happened if it wasn't just for kind of that one interaction.

I was like, you know, you could also be a pilot.

So kudos to him.

I mean, it's awesome for just being able to share it and be like, look, no, I think you'd be great at this.

Go for it.

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, I think about that sometimes, you know, I'd probably still be in a physical therapy office, which.

Nothing wrong with physical therapy.

It's an amazing.

It's amazing.

And I still do love, you know, that side of things, but that just wasn't fulfilling me, really.

It just wasn't enriching.

And so, yeah, he really came out of nowhere.

And for real, I didn't think it was even.

It wasn't even my realm.

I didn't even think it was a possibility.

Nobody in my family was flying.

I just wasn't around it.

But, yeah, it's been the best thing that has happened, for sure.

Talk about.

A lot of people think it's really hard to get into aviation, right?

They think they have to be really smart with math.

I think they just have to be this really, really smart person.

And you and I both know that we have probably either trained or flown with people that you're like, wow, they really shouldn't be pilots.

It's like, it's not that hard, right?

Obviously it takes some skill.

Obviously it takes some training and a lot of money, but anyone can truly do this.

Was there a period where you were just like, that's not for me.

Like, I can't be a pilot?

No.

I wouldn't say I never had a moment where I was like, I cannot be a pilot.

There were moments of doubt of more of like a confidence issue.

Can I.

Can I fly by myself?

Can I be a CFI and teach other people?

You know, do I have what it takes there?

I never really doubted myself in training as far as can I be a pilot?

But it was.

I had to work through some confidence issues for sure to get pretty comfortable with flying and being able to be like, yeah, I freaking got this airplane.

Like, if it's going down, I'm going to handle it, you know?

Or if a student tries to kill us, like, I got it, you know, anything like that.

Which students never try to kill their CFIs, right?

That's never Happened?

No, not intentionally anyways.

Well, hopefully, yeah, maybe.

You mentioned confidence.

Is there like a specific.

I can't talk.

Is there a specific story that you have at all or like a.

Just when you look back, is there like a specific moment where you're like, all right, this is where I truly just didn't think that I could do this or just lack the confidence, I should say.

Yeah, you know, let's see, I'm trying to think of like a specific moment.

I would say early on when I had gotten, let's see, I had gotten my private pilot license.

And after that, you know, and I always make this comment, people who have their private pilot license know nothing, you know?

You know nothing.

It's actually pretty crazy if you think about what it takes to get that license and then you're able to just go fly out in the world, you know?

Yeah, you're like, yeah, yeah, exactly.

So I think it was right after I got my license, you know, and I was like, okay, I need to like, go out there and I need to start flying.

And that's probably one of the first moments I've really started to doubt myself.

And I was like, I don't know, can I, can I do this?

Should I have my license?

A lot of self doubt kind of crept in there and I, I had to work through it.

I just had to force myself to go up and to work through it.

And it, it took a minute, honestly, to.

To get through that, but I would say that was probably my first really big moment of, of doubt.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How did you come over it?

How did you overcome it?

Was it just through trial and not surprise?

Was it just through you flying a lot?

Was it kind of just talk about what you did to overcome it?

Yeah, you know, I think it was a few things.

I definitely had to really.

It was more of like a mind game, I think I was playing with myself and I just had to kind of break it down within myself and be like, okay, what's the issue?

Why, why are you doubting yourself?

You did get your license.

You did really well in training.

You know, you're, you're onto this other training.

And I just thought about, okay, I think I'm just psyching myself out.

So it was a lot of mental back and forth, just like fighting with myself.

And then, you know, another thing is I've had some really great mentors.

And then of course, you know, my, my stepdad being one, you know, and it's, it's funny because he.

And I think this is very Common with more male pilots is a lot of them don't have that fear.

And if they do have that fear, they're not going to show.

I just hit that.

They're not going to show that they have that fear.

You know, it's kind of like, not.

I'm good.

You know, they're.

They are not going to show it.

And so when I came to him and I was all, hey, I'm kind of like, doubting myself a little bit.

And I think at first he was like, huh.

You know, because he was like, he would go out in anything, you know, when he was younger, and, you know, he grew up flying, so he kind of grew up around it.

And he just.

He had, like, no fear.

He still has no fear, I swear.

But at first it was weird for him to hear that from me.

And then, you know, he came around and he was like, yeah, okay.

I think it helped that my mom was like, okay, you guys are different.

You know, you grew around it.

She didn't.

You know, she's.

She's just doubting herself.

So anyways, he then was like, he just kind of worked with me and worked through that, and he was like, well, hey, let's go up together.

And you tell me, you know, what's kind of.

What's kind of what's stopping you?

What's.

What's getting in your head?

And so when we would go up together, you know, I would fly and, you know, everything was fine.

Everything was perfect.

I was fine.

There was never anything wrong or sketchy.

I wasn't flying bad.

It was literally just all in my head.

So, you know, it helped going up with him and him probably just, you know, reaffirming, hey, you're solid.

You're good.

You know, and then I think the biggest turning point for me was actually when I became a CFI and I had to be the one in charge.

I was no longer having these mentors or whatever.

It was flying with me or, you know, me flying alone and figuring out it was more, okay, you're in charge of two lives right now, yourself and the student, and, like, they can really screw it up for you, and you guys could go down.

So.

Forced me to just, like, abandon all of that, and it just.

It clicked.

And I was like, oh, shoot, I can do this.

Yeah.

I was like, yeah, what?

Why was I in my head so much?

Yeah.

So, yeah, that.

That really, I would say was the biggest turning moment for me is when I had to.

Was forced to get out of my comfort zone.

You know, I think There.

There's something to that, though.

I think I would rather have a private pilot that is a little bit hesitant, only because I think overconfidence is a real thing.

Like you talked about when you just get your license, when you're going out there, you're just like, I can do it.

I can do it.

I can do it.

You know, and you just like, if you don't have any kind of.

Just not, not.

I don't think doubt's the right word, but just like, hesitation.

And when I say hesitation, I mean, like, reaching out to people.

So, like, hey, I want to do this.

And then you go to your mentors.

So you did the good part of reaching out to your mentors, not trying to push through the fear on your own.

It's good to go talk to someone.

Talk to someone that you trust, talk to someone that you kind of see as a mentor and be like, hey, like, these are just kind of things.

I'm thinking, like, I have some confidence issues here.

Like, can I go up with you so we can do this?

And this is what you do when you're cfi, when you have someone that's getting ready to solo, right?

It's like, you're not just going to go send them loose.

You're going to be.

You're going to continue to work through their fears.

You can continue to help them and show them that one, you can do this.

You have the ability to do this.

And I.

We're going to work on it until you feel comfortable to do it.

And the second thing on that is watching your videos as a cfi, I would have never doubted that you were doubting your confidence.

You look very confident when you're in your videos, so you're doing great.

I am more confident now for sure.

But yeah, you know, it was a blessing in disguise to kind of go through those struggles because it's really helped me relate to my students a lot better.

And.

And you.

You are totally correct.

There are a lot of students that do kind of have that overconfidence issue, and they freak me out.

I'm like, you got it?

You know, and maybe they are.

Maybe it is pretending because they don't want to show that vulnerability.

But, like, a really big thing that I try to do with my students is show, like, I want them to feel comfortable.

Hey, I'm not judging you.

This is very normal to feel some type of way.

And like you said, you should.

You should have some type of, hey, something crazy could happen.

You know, I should be prepared.

I shouldn't just go up and be like, I'm good.

I can handle anything.

Nothing's gonna happen.

You know, and then that's, you know, when something happens.

So, yeah, that's.

It's definitely been a blessing to go through that.

I'm glad that went through that, and I'm glad that I'm over it, because it was also very annoying to just go through that, like, mental battle back and forth.

Absolutely.

I mean, yeah, it's something that you want to.

To get past eventually.

And I remember my mentor, he told me, he's like, hey, dude, how many hours you had?

I'm like, oh, like, 700.

He's like, dude, be careful, because 700 hours is where you start to feel like you're.

You can do anything and you really don't know anything.

I'm like, dude, I have 700 hours.

Like, I know a lot.

And sure enough, I just started flying freight after that, and I was like, I know nothing.

Okay.

He was right.

But that always stuck back of my mind.

It's like, all right, just be humble.

Just approach this with as much humility as you can and ask questions, and don't be afraid to reach out to people.

Now, there are some people you could ask, and they might make you feel stupid, but you just know that, and you just go ask the right person.

You just find out, like, all right, they're not the person to talk to.

I need to go find someone else.

Yeah.

I mean, oh, that's so real, you know, And I. I think being, like, when I was at my flight school, I was probably.

Actually, I think at the time, I think I was the only female CFI at my flight school.

And I remember kind of going through, like, some doubts and feeling like I cannot show that, you know, I'm feeling any type of way around these guys because, you know, they're all handling it, and then they're just gonna be like, oh, she's a girl.

You know, she.

Girls shouldn't be flying, because this is why.

You know what I mean?

And I definitely.

Some of it was in my head for sure, because I have some.

Actually, most of my mentors are amazing, supportive men.

Amazing.

But I definitely did have some men that were boys.

I don't know what you want to call it.

That would kind of make me feel inferior for kind of feeling that way.

And so I kind of just bottled that up.

And then, yeah, I would.

I would go to my mentors, and luckily I had them, honestly.

But I think it's a. I think it's a Real thing.

I remember talking to one female CFI that I worked with later down the road, and there was something janky going on with the airplane.

And I was like, dude, I was like, this is not normal.

Like, the sound of it is not normal.

You feel this, like, grinding, and you hear this grinding, and you're like, like, that's not normal.

And I remember talking to her about it, and she was all, yeah.

She was like, but if we don't go up, you know, all those guys in there that have been going up in this janky airplane with this sound, they're totally going to give us crap.

And I was kind of like, who cares?

You know, I was at a point where I was like, screw that.

They can judge me.

They can do whatever.

I'm not going up in that plane.

And then we found out that the.

What was it?

The.

It was grinding the.

In the propeller hub.

I don't know why I'm blinking.

On.

On what?

The alternator belt.

Yeah.

The gears there were grinding and shaving off metal pieces, and that's what we were hearing.

And the mechanic was like, yeah, don't go up in this.

Yeah.

So it was like.

It was good to get to that point where I was like, screw it.

But it.

It took some time.

Definitely trust your instincts, right?

There might be a time where you make the wrong call, but at the end of the day, if you don't feel safe flying it, if you don't feel safe going up.

And that's also how you learn.

You know, you learn by recognizing sounds, by feeling vibrations, kind of listening to the aircraft.

And if you think something's wrong, just go talk to the mechanic.

The mechanic will be like, oh, that's actually okay.

This can do this.

But you really want to look out for this noise instead of, you know, they have a kind of like the insider's knowledge or the insider trick.

And every plane is different, too.

Right.

But just.

Just.

It's important that you feel comfortable enough and confident enough to make those decisions.

And definitely don't let some boys, as you said, make you feel like that you are inferior because you can do this as well.

And you're probably doing it better than them.

And they're probably turning around like, oh, my gosh, I am inferior.

I don't deserve to be.

Yeah, right.

No, no, Yeah.

I do like what you said, though, about.

About being humble.

I truly do feel like the best pilots I have ever met, the most skilled pilots, the most advanced in their training, everything.

They are so humble, you know?

And I will you know, I had a student one time, and, you know, he was doing really good.

He was excelling.

And I don't know if I made the mistake of giving him too much praise, but I was like, you're doing really good.

You're catching on really good.

And then I don't know if it went to his head or what it, what it did, but he kind of, you know, he started not overly confident, and then he got to that point, and now he's kind of going through the world in that way.

And, you know, and I'm like, don't do that.

You know, and all other pilots that I've met, they're just like, you know, I'm the.

I don't want to cuss on your podcast, you know, Crap.

Yeah, they are the ones that are usually like, you know, the, not the best pilots and are making some really questionable calls, you know, but, yeah, the best pilots I have met that are doing the coolest things are so, so humble.

Yeah.

So I, I, I know that I always want to maintain that, you know, and I don't think that I'm out here better than the boys or whatever it is, but, but I will always try to make the safe call, for sure.

We're all just trying to be the best pilots we can, right?

We're all just trying to learn.

We're all just trying to honestly go home at the end of the day, see our loved ones before flight.

I'm like, look, I don't want to fill out paperwork and I want to see my kid when I go home.

So, like, let's just make sure we can do that and follow us, appease and be good to go.

Yeah, for sure.

It's funny when you talk about praising your, your student kind of similar story to me, but not.

I didn't take it to the point where I got, like, overconfident, but anytime I got praise, we would do something again and I would totally mess it up.

So my flight check is like, I'm just never going to tell.

You did a good job.

Please don't.

Yeah, just tell me how bad I am and that works.

And maybe I played football my whole life and in a college and it's all kind of.

Coaches are kind of negative sometimes.

So maybe I thrive off of people being negative so it works out.

That's hilarious.

You're like, I need that negative feedback.

You know, Some students do, though.

I have noticed that some need that, like, negative feedback.

It's pretty funny.

It makes them just work harder.

Yeah, criticism.

It works Sometimes criticism.

But if you tell me I'm doing good, it's like, dang it, all right, I suck.

Can you please be an ass?

And I will respond better.

Yeah.

Let's go back to your training.

For someone that had.

I mean, you had your stepfather, but for someone that didn't really have any experience in deviation, were you overwhelmed with the idea of, like, how do I start training?

How do I go to the flight school?

Was he like, look, you're going to go to this day, you're going to meet my buddy here.

He's going to be your cf.

Yeah.

I was so fortunate that I had him because I. I did not know where to start.

You know, when I went from the moment of taking the flight with him and then talking to him and my mom and then being like, you should do it, and deciding to do it, I was like, okay, what do I do?

You know?

And.

And I wouldn't have known.

Honestly, I wouldn't have known.

I would have had to get on Google and where do I start?

But luckily, yes, he was like, okay, go get your medical.

And then this is where you schedule it.

And then you're going to go to this flight school.

I will go in with you to make sure it's a good cfi, you know, and so that was nice.

And so, yeah, I guess you could say you kind of held my hand in the beginning, through it on, okay, this is where you start.

This is how you do it.

And then from there, you know, he just let me go.

And it was up to the CFIs in the flight school.

But I wouldn't have known.

I wouldn't have known, like, hey, I need to go get a medical.

I need to find a flight school.

What type of flight school?

141.

Like, what's the difference?

You know, those types of things.

What do I need to look for in a flight school?

What do I need to look for in a C5?

All those things I would have not known.

Yeah.

So much so.

I definitely feel for the students that come in and they're like, I want to fly, but I know nothing.

What do you recommend to someone that comes to you like that?

I'm sure you get DMs all the time, like, hey, I want to be a pilot just like you.

What's like, your go to?

Like, ba, ba ba.

Like your go to answer.

What do you say?

Oh, man.

I mean, it's never a short answer, unfortunately.

Yeah.

Because everyone's different, right?

Yeah, I. I wish there was just like, you know, one site Well, I could always be like, oh, go to aopa, you know, plug aopa.

But I know we got it.

Yeah, we can't do it.

Sorry, you guys.

I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

I'm just kidding.

I love him.

Please don't fire me.

Okay.

So anyways, yeah, no, I. I just kind of try to tell him, okay, you have to consider, you know, do you want 141?

You want 61?

Do you need a more flexible schedule or do you need like a routine?

Boom, boom, boom, get me through.

You know what?

How are you going to pay for it?

Some people are, like, getting loans.

Some people are fortunate and they have all the money in the world.

And, you know, and some people, most people are paying as they go, you know, and that's, that's the roughest.

So I kind of have them consider that, you know, okay, this is what you're going to get with.

If you go this route versus this route.

And then, you know, those.

I would say that's probably the main thing that I tell them because I know that once they get their foot into a flight school, that they can kind of take it from there.

You know, there has been times where people have been like, you know, I'm trying to pick a flight school.

What should I look for in a flight school?

And I'm like, oh, man, that's like a whole other topic.

Yeah, like, I can't tell you what flight school to go to.

Like, I don't know if you're a 141 person, a 61 person.

Like, I don't know if you can fly.

Serious, you have the money for that?

Go do it.

If not, go, go fly.

152.

I don't know, like, I can't.

Right, Right.

My recommendations is always get a first class medical to rule out the fact if you want to do this for a career to make sure you can do it and then also go take an intro flight.

Because what if you don't like it?

What if you start throwing up everywhere and you're like, all right, I tried.

I don't want to do that.

Well, that's true.

I didn't think of the intro flight thing.

I think I'm used to people being like, I've gone up.

I want to train.

How do I do it?

But yes, if no one has ever gone up, oh, my gosh, take an intro flight.

Please take an intro.

Let you fly.

They will literally be like, all right, you're playing.

You're like, what?

Some CFIs might make.

Let you do the takeoff too.

You know, they're on the rudders.

You're just pulling back.

It's like, it's a very valuable 45 minutes or 30 minute flight.

So highly recommend it.

Totally.

And you know, I would add to that because I think some intro flights are in like the morning or in the evening, you know, and it's all nice and smooth and you're like, man, this is amazing.

Take your intro flight in the middle of the day when it's hot and maybe some winds.

It doesn't have to be crazy winds.

Get the thunderstorms.

15 knots.

Go right through a thunderstorm.

No, but seriously, I mean, that's.

I think what a lot of people don't realize is, you know, you might go up when it's really, really nice, or you go up with a friend, you know, and they have their ppl and they're like, they know when it's nice.

They're gonna take you up when it's nice.

Right?

And then you go out and you start your training and it's in the afternoon and you got the thermals and you got the winds and all these things and you're getting just rocked and you're like, I didn't know that this was a thing.

And then they start getting sick, things like that.

So that I would say would be a really good recommendation.

Like, agreed.

That's more of what piloting is.

You're gonna have more bumpy days than smooth days.

Oh, 100.

And everyone loves a sunset flight, right?

Like, I go to my wife right now and she'd be like, I want to be a pilot too.

It's like, all right, well, let me take you up a couple days later.

Like, I don't want to do this.

Yeah, there's a thunderstorm.

Let me take you up.

Yeah, let's.

Let's do that.

Yeah.

IFR pop up.

Ifr, please.

I know.

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When you first decided to be a pilot, was this a full on career?

Was this I'm going to be an airline pilot or was your kind of idea just to see where it goes and see where it takes you?

Yeah, when I decided to be a pilot I was like, okay, I'm going airlines.

You know, that was the, I think when you start that's really the only path you think of.

Truly, unless you know someone in aviation that's like, you have this, you can do this, you can do this, you can do this.

So yeah, that was it.

When I decided to start training, I was like, okay, I'm going airlines.

As I've, you know, grown the social media and flown and got more experience and met amazing people, you know, I've realized there is a whole aviation world out there full of all these different career paths.

And so, you know, I mean the airlines is still very, very appealing to me because of cool, you can make this money and once you put in this many years, you're basically making that money and not doing anything and then you can have your side hustle, you know, which I'm all about.

You know, I'm not one person who can like do the same thing every day.

Like I have to do something, whether it's creative or whatever, I have to do something else.

So that's still very, very appealing to me.

But I, I wouldn't say that I know for sure what I'm going to do.

Yeah, I think it's healthy though because I think if you're just set on one option, you're going to say no to so many opportunities that might take you off the path that you want to go on.

So I think you should usually say yes to most opportunities you have in aviation and if it's safe.

Right.

Like, should I make sure the planes are going to fall the sky?

Ask some people if it's a good job.

Ask mentorship.

Because if you get in a bad spot with bad chief pilot, you know, could kind of ruin your love for aviation.

But I think just listening to the opportunities and not being afraid to take them, I started flying, I Thought I was me, a CFI that was going to the regionals.

I thought I was going to go to the majors.

I did aerial survey.

I flew single pilot freight, I flew fractional, and now I'm at the airlines.

So my path is not a very traditional path.

There are different ways to do it.

And the only reason why that happened was because I just kept an open mind.

My buddies are like, hey, I am actually starting at the zero survey place.

Like, oh, that sounds cool.

Let me try that.

So I left CFI training and I went to, I got a job and went to do that and kind of fell in love with general general aviation.

And then I realized that maybe the majors was the place to be.

And like you said, flying an airline, as an airline pilot, the more time off you get, the more money you make.

And I mean, those aren't always together, but when you get senior, you can make more money and not do much.

And that is very appealing to me.

It's also nice, the fact that you can kind of drop your schedule and really not make any money.

But it lets me do this more.

So I can make money off this.

I can supplement it with creativity or I can kind of make my own schedule and I can either decide to make money or not make money and stay home.

So it kind of works out, right?

Yeah.

And that's, that's what's been so appealing is, is that part of, of the airlines.

But, you know, I, I do like that you say you, you, you know, I thought I was going to do this, this, this, you know, the.

You do your training, you become a CF hours.

Right.

Time build and then you start at the airlines.

Right.

Just.

That's how you do it.

Yeah.

And I think that is like the traditional route, but there's nothing wrong with that route.

It's a great.

Nothing.

Yeah, yeah, nothing wrong with that.

I will say I have, you know, I became a cfi, but I started, I started my Instagram solely just to be able to connect to other aviation people, you know, other people in the world because, like, social media makes the world, you know, this small.

So I was like, okay, I just want to meet people.

And then it, it blew up.

My intention was never to build a presence or anything, but what I will say is it has created opportunities for me to meet other people and kind of do these other side jobs and flying instead of just, you know, and I've gotten flack for this from other flight schools and things.

Not where I'm at now, but they're like, ah, you're not.

Why aren't you coming in every day, flying your eight hours and get through and get to the airlines?

It's like, yeah, I mean, I guess that's the quickest way to get to the airlines, but there's so much to experience and, and see.

And it's really made me fall in love with aviation even more.

So I've just been enjoying the process and enjoying being a CFI and enjoying doing these side things and meeting all these people.

And so I've.

I think it's really valuable for some people to kind of look at like, hey, there's more than just become a CFI time build.

Your students are hours.

You know, I.

That's a whole other thing we could talk about.

I don't like that.

But like, get out there, meet the people, do these other things, like say yes to other things, just like you said, you know?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I mean, it's hard not to get caught up in like, I gotta get hours, I gotta get hours.

But you're eventually going to get burned out.

It might not be in cfi.

It may be.

And when you become a regional pilot, maybe further down the line, as you're going to be a major pilot and what it can do, it can kind of harden you towards, you know, aviation again and make you never want to do it again.

And you're just going to fly 121.

And so many pilots that I fly with don't fly general aviation.

This could be the last time you ever fly small planes, which is kind of crazy to think about because it's just like wrapped in your mind like that's all you can fly right now.

But there's so many pilots that just fly their 737.

They're 330, they're 380, 780, whatever it is.

And they don't do anything else.

Yeah.

So enjoy it while you can.

So it's a good way to look at it.

Yeah, totally.

I didn't think about that.

I've always been like, if I fly airlines, I'm 100% buying an airplane.

Like, I have to be able.

I have to be able to keep general aviation.

I feel like that's where truly the love of aviation is.

That's where everybody falls in love with it initially, you know, and yeah, the bigger, faster airplanes, so fun, so cool.

But after doing them for a while, you know, it's like, okay, I'm used to this.

And then people go back to that, you know, whatever little general aviation airplane, and they're like, I love aviation again.

You know, I think that's really where like the love of aviation lies is in the general aviation, small planes.

Agreed.

Yeah.

You also start like the burnout starts hitting and the last thing you want to do after you just flew for seven days is want to go back and fly another airplane.

And then on the unfortunate side of being a pilot is eventually you're going to run into someone, you know, either dying an accident or getting, getting really hurt in an accident, and you just kind of think it's unsafe.

And there are times when it can be unsafe.

Right.

But it's up to you as the pilot in command to make those decisions.

And if you come at it in a humble way that we talked about and not afraid to cancel flight, no pressure things, and hopefully everything will turn out right.

But there is kind of the being afraid that that could happen to you.

And I have a family, you know, you got people look out for and sometimes going to single engine propeller and there's or even a turbine, you're kind of like, ah, maybe I won't do it today.

Yeah, you know, that's, that's so funny.

As a CFI who's mainly just flying a single engine propeller, it's funny to talk to, you know, people like you or other people in airlines that are flying, you know, the 737s or whatever.

So they have these multi engines, you know, turbine, and they're like, I will never get in a single engine prop again.

It's so unsafe.

And I'm like, man, I never really thought of it like that.

You get comfortable with everything that, you know, those big airplanes give you those big jets and then you're like, single engine propeller.

That's so unsafe.

Yeah, so it is, it is funny to, to think about that.

And it's like, yeah, but we spent like what, like 1500 hours doing it.

I know, right?

But it totally makes sense.

And yes, I, I totally agree with you.

Like being able to be pic and say, nope, not comfortable with that, or, you know, I'm just gonna keep it safe.

I have a family.

All these things, things like that.

Nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely nothing.

Yeah, yeah, no, nothing at all.

Let's talk a little bit about Instagram.

What made you.

I mean, you kind of mentioned a little bit.

You kind of want to make sure that you're loving what you're doing.

Right?

You want the creative outlet and you don't want to enter the rat race and do eight hours every single day.

So talk about why you started the Instagram and I guess a later question, but I'll ask it now.

Was there any kind of hesitancy of the flight school that you're at when you started it, or kind of putting this information out there on the Internet?

Because we all know some people get weird with videos and aviation.

So I'm really interested to see kind of when it started, how it started and what the reaction was like, yeah.

So I actually started recording back when I was training.

So I would just, I would record when I was training for.

I think it was like, I think it was when I was starting my commercial or maybe it was my CFI training.

Anyways, that's how I started it.

And I solely started it to meet other aviation people in the world, in the country, you know, I.

This little town of Idaho.

And I'm like, there's gotta be more people, right?

And so that's, that's initially why I started it.

And then once I became a cfi, you know, I was like, well, let's see if I can, you know, record me and the student as flying and see how that turns out, you know.

And I remember recording the first one and going through it and I was like, oh, man, it's so cool, you know.

And so I posted that and I think it was like my first CFI video and it kind of just like blew up and I was like, whoa.

People really like this?

They're really relating to it, you know, I think it was nice for people, maybe other student pilots or low time pilots to.

I don't know if you hear my dog.

I did.

It's all good.

It's all good.

You know, I was like, you're little steps right now.

Yeah, no, you can.

They were locked up, but let's see where I was at.

Sorry, I lost my train of thought.

Oh, when I posted that first CFI video, people started to relate to.

They're like, oh, man, this is so motivating.

It's really cool to see, you know, that this is a possibility for me.

Or, you know, people were like, oh, I've been struggling with this part of my training.

This really, really helps.

And so I was like, oh, this is really cool.

I can, can.

I can make a difference.

And it kind of went back to.

I've always really loved to help people.

And so I was like, oh, this is amazing.

And so I just kind of went from there and started really putting my energy into creating these CFI videos.

And it.

And it wasn't like I had them pre planned.

I'll literally just put the camera up and forget it's there and just instruct my student.

And if something in that training session turns out cool, I'll, like, put it on the.

You know, Instagram, social media, whatever it is.

On the other hand, I have had students who are, like, so focused on the camera, and I'm like, okay, we have to take this down.

You cannot be.

No, no, no.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm all, engine failure.

They're like, what?

Just looking at the camera.

No.

Yeah.

You're like, does my hair look good?

So, yeah, there was some of that.

But for the most part, people are.

My students have been pretty good about.

Okay, just forget about.

It's there.

We're training.

This is a normal training session.

And then I've been pretty fortunate with schools actually being okay with it.

The very first flight school I was at, you know, I don't know if I even asked permission.

I think I just, like, put it up.

But, you know, guy was chill, and he was, like.

Didn't really care, you know, and so it was more me just making sure the students were okay.

I don't film every single student.

Sometimes because of that, they're distracted, or sometimes it's a privacy issue, things like that.

And I'm like, that's totally fine.

Like, I'm here to instruct you first.

You know, it's just.

It's cool to be able to record it when I can.

And then, you know, other flight schools that I.

When I started to really build, I guess you could say, a presence on.

On social media.

It's always so dumb to say that, but I'm like, I'm such a prison.

The one thing I do hate is when people are like, you're famous.

And I was like, come on, don't do that.

That feels weird.

Don't do that.

Like social anxiety.

It's like, I don't want to see anyone.

Exactly.

I'm like, hi, to the garment booth at oshk.

Yeah.

Were you at oshkosh?

I was, Yeah.

I was there for three days.

Yeah.

Oh, dang.

We missed each other.

I was hiding.

Yeah, you were.

You were hiding.

So when I would.

When I switched to another flight school and I guess had more of a following, then I did bring it up in the interview, and I was all, hey, this is something that's kind of fun that I like to do.

Are you guys okay with it?

And luckily, you know, every flight school I've been at has been totally fine with it.

And now, I think now, especially since it's becoming more popular it wasn't as popular when I started, but now that it is, I think people are getting used to it and they're like, yeah, fine.

You know, as long as it's safe is the biggest thing.

Please don't make us look bad, too.

Yeah, this flight school sucks.

No, I'm just kidding.

Please don't make us look good.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

No, I guess my next question was, when you do record something, do you actually go back and watch the whole thing or do you just kind of count on your memory?

Be like, all right, well, there was two or three good moments that might be good clips or you actually watching the whole thing?

Yeah, that's funny that you even thought to ask that.

I usually will remember.

Oh, that might have been a good little clip.

Because I'm like, I don't want to watch this whole freaking thing, you know?

You know?

Or I'll wait and I'll.

I'll kind of remember our first flight training and.

Yeah, there's a lot of moments in flight training that maybe people that aren't flying training yet don't realize that it is silence and, you know, you are just paying attention.

And it's not something that someone's going to post because it's boring to watch, but it's very much flight training.

You guys are both focused.

I'm not posting that.

So, yeah, there are a lot of moments like that.

Yeah, that.

That I know.

Okay, I'm gonna just, like, skip past this and go to where maybe we were talking about a maneuver, teaching a maneuver, or, you know, oh, that was a really good landing.

Or something like that.

I can kind of pinpoint.

Okay, I'm gonna go to, like, this section.

I will never.

I don't think I have the patience to sit down and, like, watch the whole thing, so.

Missing the content.

You never know.

I know.

That's true.

I know.

Sometimes I probably should.

Do you watch everything?

No.

I send this to an editor, and I will never watch it again.

No way.

You do.

So if there's any issues with it, it's not my fault.

It's my editor's fault.

He's watching this right now, like, what the heck, dude?

Throw me to the bus.

He's great.

Nick's the man.

I appreciate him, but.

Yeah, I just kind of just trust it, which maybe will get me in trouble one day, but, you know, it is.

I, I.

For the first four or five years, I edited this forever.

And then I got another editor, Kevin, and he did it for me for a while.

He started flying too much and then.

Or not flying too much, but his flying career started taking off.

No pun intended.

And then.

Yeah, I know.

Rude.

No, Kevin's great.

And then I reached out to my other buddy and I just put on Instagram.

I was like, hey, does anyone have any experience editing?

And he's like, I do.

I was like, sweet, you're hired.

That's actually a really good idea.

Yeah, I never thought about.

I know, I know.

I should.

Honestly, I do like some of the editing.

But, yeah, sometimes it's like I don't have time.

I feel like I have so much content that I have not gone through.

And, I mean, sometimes they'll be like, oh, gosh, I haven't posted in weeks.

And it's not because I don't have content, but it's like, I don't have time to sit down and edit as much as I actually do like to edit.

Right.

So.

So I think for anyone that's just getting started with content, and don't go higher right away, you need to figure out the story you want to tell or how you want to be perceived, and you need to figure out what you want.

And then you can go to an editor and you can show them, this is what I want.

And then don't be like me.

Make sure you watch it.

Make sure it's good.

Don't just blindly trust someone.

But, you know it works out.

You, like, pissed them off that day and they ed you and made you, like, look stupid.

Yeah.

And you're like, maybe it'd be good for clicks.

I don't know.

Maybe.

Hey, maybe.

Can you give me a day in the life of what it looks like to be a cfi?

Yeah, the day in the life.

So it's kind of dependent, I would say, on the flight school that you're at.

Kind of how they like things done.

I would say that at the flight school that I'm at right now, and I really, really enjoy it, they are very, very big on ground school.

And, you know, in the past, it would kind of look like people.

Other flight schools would be like, the, like, don't waste your time on ground school.

It's wasting their money.

It's wasting their time.

Just go and fly.

And I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, exactly.

And then I started to realize, well, this is like, not the way, you know.

And so my day, typically in a cfi looks like, okay, we go in, we're going to sit down, we're going to do some ground, we're going to brief on what we're doing.

That Day what the maneuvers look like, you know, and usually if I've taught the maneuvers already and I'm like, okay, we're gonna do this maneuver.

Run me through what it looks like before we get up there.

And you're like, wait, what is it again?

And I have to teach you in there.

So it's a lot of that running through that, or they'll run me through it and I'll make sure it's correct.

And then, you know, once we brief and we're established and we're both on the same page, okay, this is, is what we're doing that day and we get in the airplane, you know, obviously pre flight, all that go out fly, you know, probably it's, it's usually like a 1.5-ish, you know, flight session.

Pretty much the max that their brain can handle, you know, because as you know, flight training is just so much task saturation in the beginning.

So we'll do that.

Then we'll park, come back and debrief a little bit.

You know, just on maybe what I saw that they need to work on on or what they did really, really good on.

And then obviously if they have any questions, we go through that.

If it's someone closer to like a check ride or in the very, very beginning where they don't know anything, we do spend time on.

Okay, let's go through the acs.

This is how you're going to get tested because these are the knowledge areas that we really need to go through.

So I will introduce that to them.

Unless they're like, hey, I have a program that I'm doing at home.

Then I'm like, cool, keep doing that.

But if you have questions, let me know.

So I really make sure they have like the basic ground knowledge.

And then of course, during checkride, it's a lot more ground prep.

Like, okay, I'm going to pretend to be the DPE and I'm going to ask you these crazy questions, you know, so that's typically what it looks like.

And then, yeah, they, they go.

And then it's the next student and it's kind of over again.

That's, I would say the, the day in the life of a cfi, you know, very glamorous.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty good.

Pretty.

It's like red carpet everything, right?

Yeah, exactly.

What would you say is something that surprised you about being a cfi?

And you can say one good thing and one bad thing.

One good thing.

We'll start with good thing.

That surprised me I guess would just be how probably the connections that you build with your students.

You know, I figured, you know, you're training all these different students.

There's no way you can, you know, have friendships or whatever with them, but you do.

You really start to build these really good friendships and connections, and even when they go down the road, they can always come back to you, and you kind of.

Of become a mentor to them.

And that's really, really cool.

And I never really thought of that, even though I had went through training, and of course, that's how I treated my cfi.

But that's been really cool.

And just the reward of seeing them go from, you know, not knowing a lot and then just being able to handle everything in the airplane and they're passing their checkride, you know, and they feel so great, and it just makes.

Makes you feel so good.

Like, I'm so proud of you.

Right.

I would say that that's like the best and then the worst other than.

Well, let's see.

That's not shocking.

You're expected to almost die every day.

I would say a shocking thing would probably be the amount of.

Of pressure you can feel from either a flight school or a student or a student's parent about, hey, we need to cancel today because of a thunderstorm or something like that.

You know, I've been at flight schools where they're like, why aren't you out there?

And I'm like, you.

The.

Do you see the thunderstorm out there?

You know, something like that?

Or the student.

Yeah, exactly.

Or the student being like, oh, I really want to fly.

I just want to get my.

My license.

And I'm like, ye, for sure.

But we can't, because the plane is down, or we can't because, you know, It's.

It's gusting 30, and you have two hours of experience, and that's just me flying out there, you know, something like that.

Yeah, exactly.

So I would say that would probably be the biggest thing, is just feeling all the external pressures from those areas.

And as a cfi, it is.

It really is up to you to make that safety call.

And you can't let schools or students or parents or whatever it is, you know, sway you to make a bad call.

Yeah.

And I didn't realize how much responsibility and pressure that that would be.

Yeah.

And that is something you're gonna face your whole career, so you're gonna get pressure from everyone.

One, when you start moving up and you start flying cargo or you start flying for people, you're always gonna have the pressure of making sure you do the fight, and people will push you as far as they possibly can.

And I always say, learning how to say no is one of the most important things you'll ever do in this career.

Now, there is obviously a time you can say no, and obviously time where maybe you shouldn't say no because it is safe.

You just, like we talked about earlier, don't have the confidence to do it.

But that leads to another conversation that you can have with either your mentor or even your.

Your chief pilot, if you trust them.

I want to obviously go up to someone that you don't trust and tell them some concerns, because they'll be like, why did I hire you?

So, yeah, you're always gonna have that pressure.

There's always pressure in aviation, which is just.

I mean, pressure in everything, right?

You want to be the best.

You want to make sure you do it.

Pilots want to make sure they complete the job, complete the task.

And you feel bad if you.

If you let someone down or kind of don't want to do the job.

So.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I've.

I've definitely heard some stories from people higher up about that pressure that you can feel then.

And I think it.

I think it was my.

My stepdad who was like, you know, who may feel this.

You know, he flew.

He flew a lot of, like, private jets, things like that.

And, you know, he would feel it from his clients.

Hey, I need to get there.

And he's like, no.

And they're like, well, you're fired.

He's like, well, I'm not gonna die for it, you know, so it's.

It's good to know that that's a real thing.

And, you know, you should say no.

If.

Just like you said, if it is a real situation where you shouldn't say no, or.

Yeah, if it's a confidence issue.

But absolutely.

Trying to think of the next question.

I was trying to look for my rapid fire section because someone just called me out on my last.

On a Spotify comment, like, why don't you do rapid fire anymore?

It's like, I don't know.

That's a great.

That's so funny.

I was thinking, was it yesterday?

I was like, I wonder if he's gonna do rapid fire.

I'm trying to find them again.

Apparently, I'm logged out of my Evernote, so I don't have the ability to do it right this second.

But if you see me looking down, because I'm trying to figure this out, I don't know why?

This is a terrible.

I can't get out of the screen.

It's just like playing this, like, Evernote.

What are we doing here?

I can't hit continue.

Oh, man.

Please don't ask me about technology.

If Evernote's listening to this podcast, I need to leave.

All right.

Anyways, it looks like it's not going to work, but right now, if you had a kind of a Magic 8 ball and you could predict kind of anything that you.

You would get this job, you get that job, what would you think, or what would be your perf path right now for what you want out of aviation?

Oh, that's such a hard question, man.

I don't know.

It's hard because I would say a perfect path would be a aviation career that, you know, popped up out of nowhere, and they're all, hey, we got this opportunity, and it is rewarding, fulfilling, pays well, you know.

Right, right, right.

Pays well.

And I know I gotta buy my plane somehow and, you know, gives a great schedule, but to be honest, that's such.

That's a hard question.

That's a stumper.

Honestly, it is.

That's what I'm here for.

It's hard to predict.

I have clicked, all right?

I finally found them, and I've clicked a million.

Sorry if you were distracted by me being distracted by clicking these, but distracted by check.

Yeah.

But yes, it is.

Is a hard question, because I think it's important to always be open to what's going on.

I think it's good to have goals, but don't be afraid to take a different opportunity or take a different path to get to that goal.

Because who's to say you start saying yes stuff, you don't end up at the original goal, you just skip the other two steps.

Could happen.

Totally.

Totally.

Another question before we get to rapid fire is if you had kids, your kids or friends, kids, whatever, you know, they find your videos in 50 years.

Right.

Who knows however they're watching it?

But what would you want to be remembered by?

Or what would you want them to, like, kind of say and be inspired by your content and what you're doing?

I guess I would want them to maybe see that I was making a difference, maybe see that I was inspiring or motivational for people that needed it.

Yeah, I would like that to come across.

It would be cool for them to be like, wow, I can.

I can really see how you probably motivated a lot of people who maybe have been struggling in that area, something like that.

I think that would be the most rewarding thing to hear for them.

And then that my hair looked good.

I'm just kidding.

I love it.

You're like, dang.

I have my hair.

That's crazy.

That's really funny.

I have found my rapid fire questions.

We are doing them.

Let me know when you're ready to go.

Let's do it.

All right.

No pauses, no anything.

First thing comes your mind.

Are you ready?

I think so.

The answer is yes.

What's your favorite airplane ever made?

Oh, no, this is too hard right now.

The Marquette S211.

Just because I flew it.

What about a corporate jet?

Oh, this is really hard to do.

Fast.

We're gonna say The King Air 350.

All right.

What about an airliner?

Airliner, like company?

No, just like, yeah, don't sing a lot of company because then you won't get hired by them.

But let's just do.

Let's do like 737.

757.

A380.

Whatever.

You kind of your ideal airplane to five were going to the airlines.

Okay.

Well, I have no clue because I've never flown them, but I'm going to say the A380.

All right.

There you go.

What's the ugliest airplane you've ever seen?

Ugliest airplane.

Yeah.

If you don't have one, the answer is the pio.

They are not.

I don't know.

Piaggios are really ugly.

And the shorts is really ugly.

If you haven't seen the shorts, you should look it up when we're done and record your reaction.

It's pretty bad.

Okay, I'm going to.

What's something you wish you knew before you became an airplane or.

Wow.

Before you became a pilot?

All right, let me say that again.

I do want to become an airplane.

Yes.

What's something you wish you knew before becoming a pilot?

These are hard to do.

Rapid.

I'm not good at rapid.

A lot of pressure.

Something that I wish I knew before becoming a pilot is how expensive it is.

Who in the industry would you like to meet most?

Oh, gosh, I'm so lucky that I've met a lot of people that I've wanted to meet in this industry.

Aviation industry.

Yeah.

Someone that's famous and die.

Like Amelia Earhart.

It could be someone.

Oh, come on.

I didn't know it was like that.

Someone who died.

Amelia Earhart for sure.

Yeah.

Yes.

There we go.

Okay.

What's your favorite thing about aviation?

The.

Just the freedom.

Literally the freedom.

Favorite airport you've ever landed at.

Has to be right now, it's actually no.

I would say Kavanaugh Bay.

Least favorite airport.

Oh, no.

They're going to hate me if I say that sucks.

Yeah, it's.

Sorry.

Only because it's kind of boring.

I would say probably say Pendleton.

Okay, what ifr?

Vfr?

Oh, depends on what mood I'm in for.

If I want to challenge ifr.

If I want to just be bop around.

Bfr.

Favorite airport Food.

Airport food.

Cookie.

All right, would you rather fly over the mountains, the beach, or city?

Ooh, how about mountains and beach?

Okay, fair enough.

Long trips or short trips?

So I'll rephrase it as as many touch and goes as you can do in an hour or hour and a half flight, or the longest kind of flight you can do in a 172.

Longest in a 1 72.

I do 1 million touches.

What's the hardest checkride you've ever taken?

CFI.

Biggest regret in your career so far if you have one.

Trusting the wrong people.

Biggest win in your career.

Trusting the right people.

What's the hardest flight you've ever flown?

Flying.

Dodging a thunderstorm.

What's your favorite flight you've ever flown?

Kavanaugh.

Kavanaugh Bay.

Landing at Kavanaugh Bay.

And last one, would you do.

Would you recommend 141 or 61?

I know you get this question all the time.

What's your go to?

I would say 61.

All right.

There you go.

Well, that's all I have for the podcast.

I appreciate you coming on.

Thank you so much.

I think it's gonna be very beneficial.

Love your Instagram.

If you want to go and plug your Instagram and what you're doing so people can follow you if they don't already.

Here's your time.

Yeah.

Instagram is Leo in flight.

I think Leo underscore in flight and mostly CFI stuff, but I'll sprinkle some random other aviation experiences in there.

Perfect.

Well, thank you so much for going on.

I appreciate it.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

It was good meeting you.

Yeah, likewise.

That's a wrap on today's podcast.

Thank you so much for listening.

Like I said earlier, please leave us review on Spotify as we are 11 away from 1,000 reviews, which is insane.

Absolutely insane.

1,000 people taking.

Well, technically, 989 people have taken the time out of their day to leave a review, so really cool.

I really appreciate it.

Wouldn't be here without any of you guys.

So thank you so much.

I hope everyone's having a great day.

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