You got questions going out of your mind. Someone with answers. Now that's hard to find. Like the what and the why and the how stuff works. Or just where to go to avoid all the jerks. She's Gear Abbey. Gear Abbey. Gear Abbey Advice that doesn't suck. Gear Abby. Hello there, my outdoorsy friends, and welcome to Gear Abbey. I'm

Chante Salibair, an outdoor enthusiast, educator, and writer who's not afraid to tackle the controversial, weird, obscure, and taboo topics that other outdoor podcasts refuse to touch. I've been at the summit of Mount Kilimanjaro, have flown ass over tea kettle while mountain biking in Moab, have hiked the first thousand miles of the PCT multiple times while writing a guidebook, and once rocked, once walked. I did rock it, though. Roughly 60 miles on a three day mission to stumble into every single brewery in California's Ventura county is Gear Abby, the podcast where I channel all that experience and more into answering your burning questions about our relationships with outdoor products, people, places and pastimes. Now, the answers depend on the topic at hand and just how spicy I'm feeling that day. But you can count on a grab bag of personal anecdotes, hands on research, and conversations with fellow Gear nerds. Because remember, my outdoor loving pals, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice. All right, so you know how this works. You're going to send questions to myrockfightmail.com and I'm going to pick my favorites to answer here on the show. But before we get started, I want to introduce my partner in gear, the producer of Gear Abby, and our official question slinger, Colin True.

Thanks, Shantae. I. I'd like to put. Okay, I like Question Slinger. That's a good moniker. And also partnering gear that kind of shortens to Pig Pig. I'm not sure I'm as okay with that, but. Question Slinger, thumbs up.

Yeah, I don't know if I'm ready to give you kind of like a Spider man reference yet. Spider Man 5. I want you to sort of earn that place on the podcast.

So you're saying you're gonna call me Pig? Is that what you're basically alluding to there?

That'll do, Pig. That'll do.

Come on, man. All right, here we go. Attention Gear Abbey listeners. This is your producer and partner in gear, Colin True speaking. And I wanted to let you know that that sound you just heard, the one that sounded like this, that's your indication that there is a footnote available for you on the Gear Abbey episode companion article over on Rockflight. Co. Go check it out to get even more from every episode of Gear Abbey.

All right, well, do you have the first question ready for me?

I do, but the real question here is, are you actually ready for the first ever question in Gear Abby? There's never going to be another one. This is the only first question there's ever going to be.

Wow. I. I feel like is. Is the first question actually just you and I asking each other. Are you ready for the first question?

Buckle up, listeners. Here we go. Are you ready for the first question?

It's basically the podcast version of Pong, where you and I just bat the same question back and forth.

Little like, pop, pop sound effect and forth.

ColeCOV A tight 30 minutes, if you recall.

ColeCOvision. Email us@myrockfightmail.com if you're old enough to.

Develop corns on your feet, which I am apparently.

Poor Gear Abby.

Oh, man. Already suffering. I need to ask myself some questions, maybe.

All right. Are you ready for the first question?

I actually am.

All right, here we go. Dear Gear Abby, what are the best places to poop on a hike? What are the worst places to poop on a hike? Signed, your mom. Is that like your. Is that really your mom?

I am going to guess that yes. In fact, that is my actual mom. She knew about the podcast Gear Grandma. No, she's not. I don't have any children unless she's grandmother to my cat, Gear Mom.

That doesn't work.

Gear Mom. Gear Mom. She. I think she'd say yes. She'd be all right with that. My mom likes a shout out, you know, I mean, honestly, you know, thanks a lot, Mom. If that was you sending in that question, because you are the one who had to deal with both my literal and metaphoric shit, you know, long before I ever did. So I appreciate you and this question. Well, all right, let's start with a little. I think. I mean, honestly, this is the perfect question. Colin, you know this.

Yes.

You know, you know it is. It's the perfect starter question. Anyone who's listened to any of the Rock Fight episodes I've been on knows I will talk about poop. I will find a way to. This is going to. Now I'm feeling like I shouldn't say this. Slide it into any conversation.

Oh, dear God.

Oh, boy.

I gotta check the counter. How far into the first episode are we? Okay, keep going.

All right, well, we know I like talking about poop, but I highly doubt that everybody wants to listen to me talking about it too much. But I will say these poop questions, I have a feeling we're probably going to get them quite often because this is the number one thing I teach outdoor skills. And when people take my classes, they ask constantly about pooping outdoors. Actually, I was on the Colorado trail and we ran into a group of teenage boys and their parents bought us breakfast. And the boys, the very first question they asked me, well, like, how do you poop outside? It's like, well, you squat and then you make a poo. Yeah, but we'll get there one day. For now we're going to talk about best and worst places to poop outside. So in order to do that, I feel like we have to dig into the idea of leave no trace. So if you are familiar with a set of etiquette guidelines for being a good steward of the outdoors while you're out there, you probably already know that you need to first go on a good long journey to make sure you're at least 200ft from the trail. Water sources, camp, you know, anything like that. And the Internet tells me when I Googled it that 200ft is roughly quote, 70 adult steps, which honestly sounds like a self help guide for gen zers. So if you need that, I could write that book next. You need that, don't you, Colin?

I do. I would like that book.

I mean, you're not a Gen Z er, but I'm still going to write 70 adult steps for you. You'll have your own version of it.

I think that's like burned into my mind now. I'm going to be counting my steps from now on whenever I go to poop outside.

Please do 70.

70.

So you know, okay, so basically from an lnt Leave no trace perspective, the worst place to poop would be within 200ft or 70 adult steps from any of those things I mentioned. Right. Okay, so the best place would be outside of that. Blah, blah, blah. Boring. Okay, we're going to get a. We're going to go a bit deeper, a little more esoteric, because for me it turns out the worst place to poop outside is 95% of the time the place that I'm going to pick. So it's that place where you think you're hidden from the trail, but as soon as my shorts are around my ankles and I'm like bearing down, I see people come into view through the trees and they just. My little nascent poop just goes like right back, right back in and it begins the digestion cycle all over again. Um, I'm really good at that. I'm really good at thinking. I'm walking in a straight line away from a trail and what I'm really doing is somehow paralleling the trail. And yeah, I also can't tell you the number of times that I have almost fallen into my own poop aisle because I chose like a too steep slope upon which to lay my wares. So recommendation to all people. Flat. Flat is a little better for pooping. Although I do think there's something to be said for an uphill grip. So you know, if you're going to choose to poo on a slope, aim your butt downhill. That is the very important key piece of advice here. I've also chosen many times to use a tree to brace against and I only to end up with SAP on a lot of places, including my buns. But Colin, I'm sure you're not shocked by this. I have some least favorite poop spots of all time.

For someone who's as happy about talking about poop, you seem exceedingly bad at it.

Hey, listen, it comes out every time. Okay, that's not clearly not the first example.

You gave it shot right back up there.

I've since learned from my folly. Okay. I get enough fiber. Okay. I'm doing fine. It's the embarrassment factor that I'm not great at. I'm working on it. I've had a long time now to perfect this art.

You have pooped outside way more than I have, so I should not make fun.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Know your place, Colin.

Seriously? Yeah. That's good advice by Krabby.

Well, here. And yeah, I'll. I'll give you. I'll give you my two least favorite poop spots of all time. Because I know you're dying to hear.

I certainly am.

First was the time I got what I believe was giardia. During a thru hike. Yep. After a few days I, you know, I thought I'd been through the worst of it. So I got back on trail only to feel the urge return very suddenly. Just a few minutes up from the trailhead, which was a slope. You know, I was up a slope basically filled with nothing more than a few. Just stout little bushes. Yeah. And it was pretty impressive how quickly I got behind one of those. Made myself as small as possible. I was like, I am a woodland creature. I'm a woodland creature. And the second worst was probably during my very first backpacking trip where I wandered what felt like 500 miles away from camp. It was probably like 5ft but I chose a beefy fallen log as my wooden throne. I was like, this is it. This is the place to go. I settled in, and then I was interrupted by this sound. Colin. Which was a bear sniffing around behind me.

Oh, my God.

Yeah. So if you're wondering whether it's possible to run with your pants around your ankles, I can tell you from experience that it is. Yeah. Not well, but you can.

But wow.

Yeah.

That's an amazing story.

Yeah. But your mom, slash, my mom also asked about the best places to poop. So I do not want to leave her or the poop hanging. So if I have to dig a cat hole, here's the thing. Like my number one requirement, other than all the leave no trace business, is just to find a good view. Like a view that will help me relax, a view that will help my sphincter relax, you know, so much so that I can actually. Colin. Remember specific poo spots from the Pacific Crest Trail.

Wow. No kidding.

Yep. It's my special skill. I have a photographic memory. Not of the poop itself, but of the view.

Seems like a missed opportunity.

I do know a friend who would take photos of her poo spots. Not the poo again. There's a line we don't cross here. But would take a picture of all her poo spots on the trail so she can look back and remember them later.

This might be a joke gender difference because I would take a picture of my poo and send it to my buddy.

That tracks. That really does track. Oh, man. Anyway. Yeah, so. So best spot. Best spot is absolutely somewhere you can. Somewhere photo worthy is what I would say.

Love that. I do have a question, you know, because you opened the response to your mom with the leave no trace protocols, right?

Yes.

And a lot of, you know, the cat holes, not as. Not as preferred as wag bags and things like that. A lot. A lot of. A lot of thought into the ins and outs and goings on of how to poop, how and where to poop out. Well, that was intentional. Of where and how to poop outdoors. But I imagine when one does have giardia. Yeah. You just. There's. That's all out the window.

It's all out.

It's all out. Yeah. You're just spraying down wherever you are. As long as it's not inside your tent.

Yeah. I mean, you don't want to be doing it everywhere. Colin. That is. That's the whole point, is that you want to. You don't. You don't. But yeah, I've got So many unfortunate stories about. About not giardia, but just eating. Like on the pct. You get really hungry out there.

Yeah.

And just eating too much and too much. Like I ate on the pct. I was about two months or like a month and a half in, and I got to a place that had burgers. I had not eaten red meat since, I don't know, probably a decade prior. And I also can't have gluten because my body has no idea how to digest it. And so what did I do is I got a cheeseburger and I ate it and it was glorious. And then I ordered a second. Um. So, yeah, yeah, it wasn't a good 24 hours after that, I'll tell you that much.

Well, we're off to a hell of a start here on Gear Abbey.

Yes, that's right. Yeah. Answering your burning questions about your burning butthole. Wow. With that, Colin, I think that maybe we should move along and try something else. You have another question for me?

Oh, I do.

Thank God.

Dear, dear Gear Abby, I'm pretty new to trail running and I'm still trying to figure out what kind of gear I should buy. One of my biggest questions is about running vests. I keep seeing all of these Tiktoks and Instagram posts making fun of people who wear running vests on shorter runs, and I just don't want to look any stupider out there than I already do when I'm running. So far, I haven't run more than a 10k on trail so far. Is it a dumb idea to start wearing a vest as I work up to a half marathon? Should I carry a handheld instead? Signed, Jason R. From Tahoe.

Oh, man. Buddy, what makes you think you look stupid out there? I mean, to be fair, I also look stupid when I'm running, so. Man. Jason R. From Tahoe. Sir, first, my very first piece of advice to you is stay off tick tock and just go join a run group or something so you can hang out with actual runners in person. I promise you, it's much better for you. And second, buddy, no one who is actually on the trail gives a shit what other people are doing or wearing or look like because honestly, they're too busy enjoying themselves and. Or trying not to die. And as a trail runner, I speak from experience, so I really don't care what anybody else looks like, what they're carrying, what they're doing, unless they're trying to cause harm to my body. I mean, gear choices, as you're going to discover, as you Listen to this podcast are highly personal. So what works for a TikTok influencer or some judgy ass hat is not necessarily going to be right for you. So first, sir, I would say what made you start thinking about wanting to wear a running vest? Like, was it because you saw other people doing it online or offline and thought you should, or was there something more specific that you were thinking the vest might address? So I want to help you chew on this a bit more. So let's talk about the purpose of the running vest. Colin and Jason are, which is. Colin, do you have any guesses what a running vest is for?

Hydration, Carrying stuff. The stuff you need on your run. It's essentials. It's for essentials.

Yeah. Basically it's just, it's there to hold things so that you might want on your person while you're running. So that's a running vest. It's pretty simple. I mean, holy shit, if that is not the most simple, perfect description of what these things do, it's just like holding stuff, right? So, okay, here's the question you need to ask yourself and then answer is, do you want to have stuff on your person while you're running? And if so, you may want to consider a vest. So a handheld is really going to carry just a few things. I can cram my, my wallet in there, I can cram my chapstick in there and keys, and that is about it for any normal human sized handheld. So if you're using like an Alex Honnold sized handheld, that's going to be different. But for mere mortals it's not going to carry too much. So if you decide you want other stuff with you, you can consider the vest. So they have different, you know, capacities. Just like a hiking or backpacking pack. When I first started using one, I got the Osprey Dyna 15. It was the largest capacity I could find because my intention was essentially to take it on a 15 mile run deep in the backcountry up in the Sierra. I wanted to have my 10 essentials with me. You know, all the things that will theoretically help me stay alive out there and enough food to feed a family of five. At least, at least lest I, you know, trip, break a leg, starve to death out there. Which is of course my, you know, common fear whenever I go trail running in the backcountry. Just absolute visions of, of, of death and dismemberment whenever I try. I don't know why, it gets relaxing when I'm done, but there's something about the actual trail running that sparks the fear of God within me. So I am so careful when I trail run. I'm like basically just, I'm basically just fast walking.

Are you actually running?

That's a good question. No, because. Because the first time I went trail running it was up near Tahoe. My friends and I were staying at a, like a fire lookout and, and I was like, I'm going to go trail running up here. And I was just going to go on like a two mile trail run. You know, it's forest, there's a lot of duff, kind of chill. And I biffed it like 10 minutes into the run. I just went down so hard into a bunch of pine needles, my knee like split open. Now there's pine SAP and pine needles sticking in the wound. I absolutely just like licked my wounds, hung my tail and walked back like a sad dog.

It is a skill. Trail running running and trail running is its own thing that you do have to learn how to do.

So though it is, it is. Maybe we'll talk about it someday. That's a good question, is how the hell do you do that thing? But if you're already there and you want to carry some stuff, I got some more, got some more ideas for you. Good thing. I had, by the way, in my trail running vest which I had with me that day, I had a first aid kit. So hey, hey, I mean it didn't help that much but you know, I felt good for having it at least. But anyway, I mean the. So, so I have that 15 liter one right where I'm carrying, you know, a buffet dinner for seven. And it turns out that was a bit too much PA for most of my runs. And so I, you know, I eventually added an ultimate direction, Ultravesta, which is a much more lightweight. It's about half the capacity of my Osprey. And, and it's, it's so light that I barely ever notice I have this thing on, which means honestly I'm more likely to bring it on longer runs closer to home when I want to carry like extra food layers. Maybe it might rain out that first aid kit for when I'm apparently going to bloody myself my phone, you know, stuff like that. You get the drift. So my personal formula is this, my Tahoe running friend is I use a handheld when I'm just dragging my carcass around the neighborhood or on short local trails and I switch to a vest when I want more carrying capacity since I absolutely can't stand the feel of running With a waist pack or a fanny pack on, it's like slapping against your butt cheeks. It just. I do not enjoy that. Yeah, that's for my downtime. I wish y' all could see poor Colin, like, silent laughing in his little recording booth right now. I'm sorry, buddy. Sorry to my mom.

Remember the beginning when you said that? You said how spicy you are. Sounds like you're pretty spicy today.

Spicy? We're talking about fanny pack butt slapping. I'm sure Jason R. From Tahoe didn't think that was coming.

I picked the must fanny bag at Deja Vu Love Boutique.

Hey, I did say people could send me any. Any kinds of questions, so. So anyway. All right, so let's wrap this up here at the end of the day. I think it's pretty simple. Like, figure out what do you want to carry on your runs, then figure out the most comfortable way to carry that stuff. Tune out all of the superficial idiots on social media and just do your thing. Do your thing, buddy. If you need a little inspiration to commit to your new life as Vestman, I'll tell you this. One of my number one favorite ways to fuel on a long run is via tater tots. Yeah, that's right. Sweet, sweet carbs. Specifically, sweet potato tots. Oh, yeah, And I suppose I could just, you know, shove them in my sports bra or something, but, man, there is nothing like running free in a vest, just bulging with potato products and popping them in my mouth all willy nilly as I move through time and space like, it is a beautiful experience. And if anybody wants to judge me for it, they could just go suck on expired goose for the rest of eternity. All right, well, Colin, we're gonna keep marching this along here like the efficient machine that we clearly are, fueled by sweet potato tater tots. Lob another one at me.

All right, dear Gear Abby, I'll keep this quick. I know you're a writer. What's your favorite outdoor book of all time? And don't say it's wild. Signed, Salty Haterade. All right, good name.

Okay, first of all, Rude Wild is a great book, and I will defend its honor anytime. Haterade. Colin, you're not allowed to comment on that.

That's true. It's probably a popular choice, I think, is what Haterade is alluding to.

That's fine. You know what? Not all popular things are bad.

Popular things are popular for a reason.

Like what you like.

This is a little more of a hipster podcast, though.

Is it? Is it because I have bangs now? Did you Notice I have sparkles in my bangs today.

Is that from this weekend?

It is. I went on an adventure weekend. It was a women's adventure weekend where women were doing all these badass things like rock climbing and mountain biking and everything. And at the end of one of the nights, somebody came in and put their stuff silk. They're apparently silk sparkles. So I bring in the thunder with my bang. So that's what makes this a hipster podcast, is that I've got sparkle bangs, but also because I believe that we can. Maybe it's. There's nothing more punk rock, perhaps, than defending wild, but this. They're not asking me to defend wild. They've actually asked me not to talk about it or mention it, so.

Well, then it be more punk rock for you to say, well, I am going to talk about it.

Well, hater aid. All right, What I am going to do, though, I am going to defy convention a little bit here. I'm going to give haterade two answers to this. So even though you did not ask me for two answers to this, I'm going to do it because this is my show and I'm going to do what I want. Yeah. Plus, I'm an absolute book nerd and I will take any excuse to wax poetic about things between two pages, so. Or two covers. There's many pages. All the books I read, I want to be clear about have many pages. Okay.

Big fan of the two page books.

I think one of those hardcover children's books is really what I aim for. I read a lot. Yeah. All right. So here's my two part answer to this. So first, my favorite book that I've read outdoors. So I'm taking that in a different direction. This is the precursor. It's a tie between Travels with Charlie by John Steinbeck and welcome to the Goddamn Ice Cube by Blair Braverman. Yeah. So.

So you just smuggled a third book in, basically what you're saying that's my.

Life is smuggling a third book in. My mom. My mom was at my house once and she looked at my bookshelves and then she looked at the piles of books next to my bookshelf and then in my bedroom and things. And she's like, you need to get rid of some of these. I'm like, go home. Go to your home books.

Go write me more poo questions.

No, Please do. But let's go back. I want to go back. Have you. First of all, have you read Travels with Charlie or welcome to the Goddamn Ice Cube?

I have not.

Okay. Well, read them. Okay. So I read Charlie while I was on the pct and I finished it up at a place called vbr. That is Vermilion Valley Resort. It's a rustic mountain resort that's super hiker friendly place. You could run a real big tab there if you want. And it was during a rainstorm, like we were in this monsoonal flow. And I had rented this old, like crusty, dusty, rusty rv and I bought a box of wine from the general store at the resort. And I just sat there and I like plowed through the second half of this book. So very visceral memory there from what I do remember before I got too drunk. And then I read Ice Cube, the other book, while I was on the Colorado trail. And honestly, hearing how miserable Northern Norway was for the author, Blair Braverman just made me feel so much better about like the shit weather we were having on the ct. So it was, it was great. I was like, thank you. Your misery is so much worse than mine. But we're not talking about books that made me feel better about myself. You're asking about Haterade, my favorite outdoor book. So I gotta say it's, you know, it's like asking me to pick my favorite potato product. So you may think it's sweet potato tater tots right now, but you don't know. Tomorrow it could be crinkle cuts. So we'll say for today I'm gonna go with the Last Season by Eric Blem, which scratches about a thousand different itches for me.

So.

Have you read this one, Colin?

No.

Oh, buddy. Okay, this is a good one. Okay, so it's a. It's a book club coming soon. I know that, you know, T shirt slogan, don't give me new ideas.

Girabi's book club.

Jbc. Nope, we don't like acronyms. All right, so anyway, the last season, it's essentially the author's quest to figure out what happened to this guy, long time backcountry ranger Randy Morgenson, who disappeared while he was on duty at the Bench Lake Ranger station in Kings Canyon National Park. And it's this little. It's. It's not one of the cabins, actually. It's a little like seasonal tent they put up. And it's kind of duck. It's hidden in the trees. I was looking for it last summer. You could just see a tiny corner of it. But the book, in this book, you have it all. You've got fantastic descriptions of the Sierra, back country. If that's your thing. It's my thing, quite possibly my favorite place on earth. You gotta look at what it's really like for rangers in the backcountry. You've gotta delve into this more, you know, emotional, esoteric sides of why we go out to these places and go deep out there. And then you have this full on mystery like, where the hell is this guy? So, yeah, I cannot recommend it enough for anybody who likes any of those things. And of course, I could read something that changes my mind next week. I have no idea. But for now, the Last Season by Eric Blem. But Colin, are you ready? I am going to channel our pal Haterade and ask you, do you have a favorite outdoor book? And don't say Into Thin Air or Into the Wild.

Can I say wild?

Yeah, yeah. Hayrid didn't tell you you couldn't.

Into Thin Air is a good one. Into the Wild's good as well.

But you're not allowed to say either of them.

I'm not. I'm not. If I were going to take one from that camp that I might say I would. The Perfect Storm, I think is in that same vein as those two. I enjoyed that book. I have to throw some love to Born to Run, because I did at the time, at the time when it came out and the whole barefoot running thing. And it actually helped me change how I run. And so I was part of that era. I enjoyed that.

Were you out there in your barefoot?

I had my five fingers. I had a five fingers moment. I did. But we have talked about my favorite outdoor book and it's a walk in the woods.

Oh, that's right. We did talk about that on the rock fight.

I love that book.

All right, old man.

My favorite book, though is Night Shift by Stephen King. So it's his first collection of short stories, which I love. I love a short story.

I was gonna say you're getting real off topic here, but honestly, that's a great book. Love it. I wouldn't read it outdoors because I'd be scared shitless, so.

Right. Not a good idea.

You know what is a good idea? Colin?

Another question.

One last question.

Oh, we had the last question.

You get one last question to ask me today. One last chance to hear wisdom. My fount of wisdom. Bubble forth.

All right, last question of the first episode of Gear. Abbey. Should I ask you if you're ready for the last episode of the first episode. The last question of the first episode.

Only if you're ready for the last question of the first episode.

Is that a T shirt slogan? I Don't think so. All right. Dear Gear Abby is using biodegradable soap. Actually Leave no Trace sign. Prodigy.

Ooh, prodigy. This is a great question, actually, and one where I think my answer might kind of piss some people off.

This would be a good one.

Yeah, maybe. You know, you know how controversial soap is. Very, very, very. Especially to through hikers and dirty, dirty pigs. Not pig like you pig. Different kind of pig. Please leave that snort in there first. I'm gonna, you know, encourage everybody to take a moment, we're gonna take a deep breath together and consider the concept of Leave no Trace or lnt, as I will probably abbreviate it here a few times. That's twice now in one episode we've mentioned Leave no Trace. For me, when I think about lnt, the heart of it is essentially like a Successories poster. Do you remember Those from the 90s?

These are the like, you can do it kind of things with a cat hanging from the tree.

Yeah, there's like a lightning bolt and it's like, oh, achievement or something.

Yes, yes. I had several of those, I believe that I got like in a stocking stuffer at some point for Christmas. Like a little small one.

They're too big to put in a stocking.

No, they had small. They had like desk size ones too.

Oh, just like tiny for mini successes.

That's right.

You can't.

You're not going to trust you to go really big. So we're going to give you this tiny one.

We want to be realistic with you, Colin.

We're setting some realistic goals for you, kid.

You know, it's good. It's good to under, like under expect and then you can over deliver.

That's right.

Have you done that yet?

No.

Over delivered? No. You're working on it though. I see it.

I'm trying, I'm trying.

We'll build a podcast empire together. All right, so imagine this. So Leave no Trace accessories poster in my mind is a picture of a beach. Like the surf is just gently lapping. There's some imprints of a human foot and it reads, take only photographs, leave only memories. So in less poster friendly form, though, I think, honestly, LNT has kind of evolved into this trail policing where it's less about how you yourself act out there and more about shaming people for how they act out there. You know, we've even seen Instagrams pop up over the years, things like that. But there is honestly nothing that annoys me more than preachiness instead of actual education. So actually, a couple summers ago. I like to side tangent here. It's related, but. But a couple summers ago, I got to sort of see this in action. I was hanging out at the shore of Upper Cathedral Lake, which is in Yosemite National Park. Beautiful lake. I was out with a couple other people I'd met. I was doing a long trail and all of our tents were sort of tucked back in the woods where there's some really good camping and we're just hanging out by the lakeshore. But there were. There was this group of sort of younger women on their first backpacking trip. And I knew they were nervous. I'd met them the night before and they were kind of like nervous hikers. And their tents were right, like butt up against the water, like they were like playing mermaid or something. They were right there. And so I just, I just walked over to say hi since I'd met them earlier. And one of them did. She didn't even say hi. She just immediately went into guilt mode. She's like, please don't yell at us. I realize we're probably not supposed to be here and do you want us to move? And I was like, hey, I'm not the trail police. And I kind of gave them my best gear. Abbey, big sister of the mountains, talk and like, hey, if you want to know, here's some good practices for the future, right? Like, here's an inviting conversation we can have about how not to like, fuck up the view for everyone and how not to screw it up for all the animals that want to come drink here tonight. Yada, yada, yada. Anyway, like not 10 minutes later, Colin, some guy just is wandering through camp. He's got his backpack on and he looks at me and he just like yells directly at me, huh, the 100 mile, 100 foot rule, I guess.

Oh, Jesus Christ.

I said, what? Mostly just out of like incredul, like incredulation. Is that a word? I was incredulous. I said, why, thank you. Yeah, I'd like to make up new words. All right, so this guy just yell like yells full bore at me, fuck the 100 foot rule, I guess, huh? And I just said what? Like I said, I was just shocked. So what? You know, and my three companions were all from outside of the United States. Like, what's happening? Is this how Americans act on trail? I'm like, well, sometimes in any. And he repeats himself, right? He's like, yeah. And then he kind of adds a sense about how we're too close to the water. And I was like, hey, bro, our Tents are in there. And I point over to the. Where the trees are quite a distance away. He looks at me, he looks back at the trees, walks in a little bit like he didn't believe me, sees the tents, walks back out, and he just says, whatever, and walks away. It's like, okay, dude, people are allowed to sit next to the water. Anyway, point being, we're going to get back to the topic at hand here for Prodigy. For me, Leave no Trace is less about being a D bag to other people in the hopes that they'll improve their outdoor behavior, and more about thinking about how you want to be in relation to these places and the people and the plants and all that jazz that are also in those places. So to get to Prodigy's actual question, which is, is using biodegradable soap actually good? Leave no Trace practice. Here's the thing, you know, we're getting tricked by a word here a little bit is the biodegradable bit actually happens best in soil where the bacteria are going to help break it down. Even biodegradable soap, that's. That. That's receptive to those bacteria. And water, even, that alters the water chemistry. So it's generally not a good thing for the flora and fauna living in there. And you're. You're basically introducing a foreign substance that wasn't there before, and it's going to linger. Things that biodegrade can often take months. You know, if. If they're pitched as being biodegradable. And a lot of people don't realize that they can actually take months, some of them take years. And really, anything can biodegrade over time. So it's a bit of, like, in my mind, it's like a tiny bit of greenwashing, if I'm being honest.

So, you know, Dr. Bronner's is a bunch of bullshit. Is that.

What's Dr. Bronner's? I mean, if you read all of the words on that packaging, eventually somewhere he's like, but, you know.

Just pack your Pert plus, it's fine.

Yeah, Pert Plus. Wow. That is like that throwback reference 80s. It is shampoo. But, yeah, I think. I really do think a lot of people look at soaps labeled as, like, safe for backcountry use, and they assume they can use it in water very specifically, because think, what are people doing with soap? They're using it with water, they're washing dishes, they're washing their bodies. Who knows what? And so they feel like, oh, I could just put the soap back in the water source. I can bathe in the water. Like you can't do that, man. You're polluting the water if you do that. Putting something in there, it doesn't belong there, kind of screws up the biome for everything that does belong in there. So for me personally, I tend to forego soap in the backcountry. I mean a, Because I am just an absolute dirty, feral marmot girl. But also because I just don't feel great about leaving soap film on things, including the ground. And that's not going to make it into our successories poster. The successories poster is not, you know, take only photographs, leave only soap film. So when I do, I mean it's. There's, there's probably someone who would like that poster. It's not me, it's Dr. Bronner himself. But when I do use soap, which is usually to clean my butt when I'm using a bidet after a poo, we're gonna bring it back to poop full circle. I love it. I carry a tiny, tiny, like a teeny tiny amount of Dr. Bronner's. It's in a teeny tiny dropper bottle. I think I got it from Lightsmith or Garage Grown Gear or something like that. Like the tiniest of dropper bottles and I use an even tinier amount. One drop is all you need. That stuff is super potent. If you've ever used it, you know how much it suds up and you can never get the suds to go away. One drop before I rinse the soapy water, you want to kind of concentrate it all in one spot. You don't want to actually scatter it. No matter what you were taught in Scouts back in the day about just like flinging your food scraps everywhere. Because all that's doing is creating this kind of like scattered buffet of things for the animals. So. So just kind of keep it concentrated so it's not just this big ass buffet of scents. And yeah, I don't use soap to clean my dishes on trail. I don't do that till I get into town. Like I just lick my dishes clean. I put water and swoop it around and drink it. I'm dehydrated as hell out there every day, so I could use the extra water. And I don't use soap really to clean anything other than my butthole. It's just a splash of water and a bandana are fine for me. You know, out there sweating. I'm just constantly recycling my own filth anyway. So you know, I'm pretty feral out there, and I'm fine with it. You know, whether or not that's fine with other people and anyone around me is a different story, but I don't really care. That's it for this episode of Gear Abby. Until next time, send your burning questions, but not your burning buttholes about your relationships with outdoor products, people, places and pastimes to us over@myrockfightmail.com and I will do my best to answer them, or I'll find someone else who can. Today's episode was produced by David Karstad and Colin True, our resident pig. Art direction was provided by Sarah Gensert. And I'm Chante Salibair here, Abby. And remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice.