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This is Time Signatures with Jim Irvin, a podcast and radio program presented by the Capitol Area Blues Society in Lansing, Michigan. Most any contemporary musical style can trace its roots back to the blues. Time Signatures explores the blues and its musical connections with captivating interviews, lively discussions, and news from the world of the blues. And now, here he is, your host, Jim Irvin.

Well, thank you so much, Parker, and welcome to Time Signatures. I'm your host, Jim Irvin, and our guest today is a Chicago native. So, you know, this is going to be a fun episode. He started singing around the age of five, and the bug to perform stuck with him throughout his youth. He began a singing career in his teens and pursued his dreams of doing what he loved to do, singing and entertaining. He has a couple of CDs out there, and we are pleased to have time to talk to him today. Christopher Henderson, welcome to Time Signatures, man. How you doing?

I'm doing good. Thank you so much for having me.

Well, I appreciate your time, man, and I want to dive right in here because there's so much to talk about. But I'd love for you to talk about your earliest memories of music.

Okay. Well, my earliest memories came from home. Growing up around a lot of blues lovers, jazz lovers in my family. My family migrated from Mississippi. My grandparents, my maternal grandparents and paternal grandparents, my great aunts and uncles. So I grew up around a lot of older relatives, and we always had, you know, parties and gatherings, and they would play the blues. Muddy Waters and B.B. king, Howlin Wolf, you name it. Everybody was playing my house. So I just kind of picked up from that, you know.

Sure.

The emotion of blues, how my family reacted to singing, the dancing, you know. So it started young at home.

Yeah, you know, I. That influence when I was growing up, you and I are cut from similar clothes because I was also exposed to a lot of the older music, going way back to the big band in the swing years. But how did that first generation of blues music influence you as you began to develop a taste for it?

Well, I just used to mimic the records and stuff, the songs that were being played. And so my mother, she realized that as a young boy that I could. I had a gift that it was just bigger than just singing along with the record. She like, oh, man. You know, my son can sing. He's very talented. Because I used to sound like a lot of artists, you know, so she would have me perform for the family. They would come over and I had to put on performances for my relatives. So that's how I really knew there's something that I can do, and I wanted to do it professionally.

There you go. Now the age of five, you got your first taste of singing around the house, as you just talked about. And you also got some impromptu opportunities to cash in, didn't you?

I did when I was about six. Sixteen is when I really start to gain an audience into singing, like, live in front of an audience with different musicians and stuff. I had went to a blues jam on the west side of Chicago. They used to have blues jams. And my mother volunteered me to go, her and my aunts. And they did. Had an intermission, and they asked, did anyone want to sing, you know, anybody know the blues, want to sing the blues? So my mother's like, yeah, my son, you know, they looked at me like this kid, you know, what's he going to. They thought I was going to rap or something like that, you know, but.

Right, right.

I took the microphone and, like, they say the rest is history. That the people, they were blown away by my talent. They didn't know that that was coming from a little kid, you know, so that was. And then I started to get paid for, you know, weekly. So that was, like, the first professional gig for me.

Now I want to step back and flesh that story out just a little bit, because I want to hear your story about your connection to then Chicago Alderman Wallace Davis.

Okay. How did.

How did that connection come to be?

I actually met him that day when I went, because it was his. It was at the Catfish Corner, which was his. His establishment, and he would have live blues there. So I was singing on the stage, and he came out of the restaurant, him and his wife, who since had passed. My condolences to him and their family. But him and his wife came out of the restaurant while I was singing, and he stopped the band, he stopped everything, the musicians, the people. He said, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Who is this little boy? You know? You mean, tell me this? A little boy out here singing and ask me my name and where I was from? He was in Odd, you know, he was like, oh, my God. You know, he just. And so he took a liking to me, and he kind of, like, mentored me a few years, because I'd done that for a few years. So that was the day that I met him. He came out of the restaurant, you know, seeing me in action. So he was. He was surprised. He called me the Michael Jackson of the blues, you know, then. But, yeah, that was a cool experience. Yep.

And what song did you sing that first time on stage, my first song

was Bobby Blue Bland. I'm a big Bobby blueband fan, especially during that time. And I sung I Paid a Fool. I did like a medley, then I did Further on up the Road. Those were the songs that I kind of did. Yeah.

Okay. Now, Chris, I love that you have such an eclectic taste in the blues. I always describe the blues as a buffet because there's so many little subsets involved in it. And quite frankly, I take the plate and I just put what I want on there. And that's what you need to do, you know.

Yeah.

After reading. After reading that article from 2020 in the Living Blues magazine, I've added a couple of names to my blues list and I want to thank you for that.

Okay.

Some of the. Some of the early blues influences that you had. Talk about your musical taste, if you would, please.

Well, yeah, throw some of them.

Throw some of them OG's in there, man, because.

Okay.

Keep them names out there.

I'm well rounded. It started. I used to collect records. My mother would give us allowance, so that started very, very young. I started collecting at like 12 years old. And I would collect like, blues from the 1920s, like Betsy Smith, Ma Rainey, King Oliver, you know, with jazz, all those people from like New Orleans and the South. I was really fascinated. And it was just something about that deep, deep blues, like from the 20s and the 30s, you know, you would thought that that's what I'll be doing now. But I'm very well rounded. But those people that inspire me the most, just because it was different to me and it was new to me, you know, at that time. So, yeah, like, those are the blues. I like Sister Rosetta. Just a lot of those type of people, you know, that I started to collect early on, you know.

Well, and I think that, you know, the. The older and. And by the way, Bessie Smith and Ma Rainey are two of the names that I added to my list. And I actually went and bought some CDs of them today, in fact, while I was preparing for the interview, because I wanted to rework it a little bit. But I have to tell you, I love the older stuff, but as I've heard so many times before, I believe it was Muddy Waters that might have said that you pick up the blues where you find it and you carry it a little bit further on down the road and you do your own thing with it. One of the things that I respect most about a lot of the blues artists today is that's exactly what y' all are doing it doesn't have to be in a cookie cutter box where you just have to do everything the same way, do you?

You're right about that. So, so, so true. And that's what I. I try to bring with my artistry and my blues, because I do traditional blues, I do soul blues, and I just put it all in the pot and I just give everybody a little bit of everything, you know, for everybody. Yeah, yeah.

See, and I like. I like a little bit of that soul blues, man. There's. There is something about it. And honestly, the longer that I'm in this, doing this program or I'm learning about the different aspects and the different subsets of the genre, I'm going to be honest, I. I just recently learned about soul blues.

Okay.

Because I'm familiar with Hill country blues, I'm familiar with Memphis blues, Chicago blues, blah, blah, blah, the list goes on. But there are so many different subsets, and each of these subsets bring something new to the table, don't they?

Absolutely. You're so correct. Like soul blues, you have Bobby Bland and B.B. king and those type of artists versus, you know, Muddy Waters and Howlin Wolf is. It's the same, but it's not the same because though, you know, it's different generations and they bring something new to it.

So, yeah, one of the things that I like about that is, you know, you get people like Bibi, who flows freely between the soul blues and some of the more traditional forms of the genre. And I think that you've got a lot of people, even in Chicago today. Toronzo Cannon, Mike Wheeler, John Primer. Yeah, they. They all. Even though they're Chicago blues, they bring a little twist, don't they?

Yes, absolutely. Yep. They put their signature signal, signatureize it. They put their own spin on it right there.

Time signatures, man. They put their signature on it.

There you go.

There's a gentleman over here in the southwest corner of the state of Michigan. He goes by the nickname of Mississippi Mick. His name is Mick Colossa, and he describes his version of the blues as free range blues. Because he's everywhere.

Okay, I like that. I like that.

He lived down in the Hill country area down near Clarksdale. If people give it a chance, there are so many different avenues that the blues can take you. Am I correct in that?

You're so correct, absolutely.

Now, obviously, at the time of this article's publication, we were dealing with the COVID pandemic.

Yes.

Chris, are you finding that things are kind of returning to a certain level of normalcy nowadays.

Yes, absolutely. Right before the pandemic, I had a lot of different opportunities to do shows and to go overseas, you know, and then right when it was going to happen, you know, the pandemic just dropped me flat on my face, you know. So I feel like now is the time that things are picking back up. Um, it's time to get on out there. So, yes, I do.

Good. I've talked to so many people. Of course, we all went through the COVID pandemic. We were all locked up for, you know, for the better part of a year or a little more. What did you do during that time? Because obviously at that time, you were kind of on a. On a trajectory upward, weren't you?

Yes, I just focused on the music. I drowned myself in the music. I did a lot of writing songs because I write a lot of. Mostly everything that I do, I write. I started to do that early on as well as a teen, writing different little songs and melodies. So I did a lot of writing during the pandemic. I did release my second project right at the tail end of the Pandemic. So a lot of those that project kind of came from the Pandemic. It was during that time.

Okay, now, I guess when you were writing during the pandemic, did you record at that time, during that. That period?

I did. Yes, I did. The song made no Sense. I did a cover, Ain't Nobody's Business. I did that during the pandemic, yes.

Okay. I was going to ask if that period of time had a bit of a sway on your music at that time and your writing, if some of that made its way into the album.

It did, yeah. The song, It don't make no Sense. That was really pertaining to the pandemic.

Okay, well, talk about that a little bit.

You know, it was a pandemic. And then I felt like during that time, it made it harder for people to, you know, live they, of course, everyday life, their livelihood. So it was just a part. It just didn't make sense to me. So that's why I named the song It don't make no Sense. You know, people are walking around. You have people struggling during that time on top of a pandemic. So it was just a lot of inflation. It was just a lot of everyday life hardships included with the pandemic. You know, that's basically what that speaks of.

And I. I remember that time so vividly because, number one, I'm in my late 50s. Number two, of course, I was mid-50s back then. Number two, I am also a type 2 diabetic.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. And there were a lot of people that had pre existing conditions such as that that were really scared. I mean, you know, for, for their lives.

Yes, absolutely.

So they didn't want to be out. They didn't want to be anywhere near anybody. And I remember coming home with grocery bags. I had. At the time, I. We had eight people living here, all three of my kids. I had a nephew, I had a gentleman that I was renting a room to. My husband was here. I mean, eight people in this house. Okay. And I was the guy that was going out doing the shopping. And I remember coming home and wiping the bags off on the porch with. With wipes just to make sure that, you know, I wasn't bringing stuff into the house. But it just. It feels good that we're past that and, and it's nice to be back out there among the public and being able to go to concerts and all kinds of stuff.

Yes, it is. That was a depression I did. I kind of fell into a depressed because I didn't get a chance to promote my album like I wanted to. I couldn't go out and do shows. I couldn't. It was like a standstill. So I kind of. I wouldn't say regret, but I wish I would have waited to release it so I can do more with it.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well. And you know, and the thing is, I think depression was a big part of that time. I'm a very social person and I have become considerably less social than I am than I have been in the past.

Okay.

And I think a lot of it is due to the. To the COVID pandemic and all that.

But I agree.

I want to flip the page here, Chris, and I want to talk about something else. How is your collection of Living Blues magazines going?

It's going good. I got. Oh, man. I got them packed away now, but they're going well. I'm still collecting them. I. I think my oldest One is from 1990 or 89, I believe.

I'm going to tell you you need to look on ebay. And I'm going to tell you why, because I found one. Of course, you. I'm sure you've heard about the 1969 Ann Arbor Blues Festival.

I did, yes.

Okay. I've got the albums, I have the CDs. I. I actually have a couple and I wish I could put my hands on them right now because I'd show it to you, but I have the Living Blues magazine that has all the pictures from that event.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, and I found it on ebay and it was like seven bucks, eight bucks, something like that. So if you want to get some of that older stuff, go check it out.

Okay. Most definitely.

Chris, we have to talk about what you've been doing lately, man. Are you working on any more stuff on the music front? Do you have a new album in the works or a tour coming up? What's going on?

A couple of things coming up. I did want to plug my latest release, a re release actually of a performance, a live performance that I did of a few years ago. Chris Henderson live at Mo's Tavern. You can order@elasticstage.com so this is the album.

Is that vinyl?

Yes, it is.

Christopher Henderson, you got vinyl?

I got vinyl.

You know, you know, I gotta listen. On April 8th last year I had no vinyl.

Okay.

On today, April 3rd, not even a year later, I have over 400 pieces of vinyl and more than half of it is blues.

Really?

Trust me when I. Trust me when I tell you, my friend, I will be pre ordering that tomorrow, I promise you.

Okay? Yes. So yeah, tomorrow you can pre order@elasticstage.com and then it will be available April 28th. So this is the vinyl.

Beautiful, man. That is so cool.

Now, now this is a 20 inch vinyl. It's double sided. It's 8 minutes on each side. And the reason why I'm releasing it is because Moe's Tavern was going back to the pandemic. They shut down due to the pandemic.

Okay.

And the owner passed of COVID 19.

Oh man.

And she was a beautiful lady. She gave me a platform to, to showcase blues. And I did a show February 16, 2018. And this is what this vinyl is.

Wow.

So you can pre order.

No, no, I was gonna say. And how much is this?

So the vinyl is 29.99 for the U.S. okay. And then overseas is 27.99.

Okay, all right, very good. And we will definitely put a link up in the information section of this episode so that people can go in there and they can get that episode or that, that album and, and ordered for their own.

Now, Chris, this is my first vinyl release. So I'm, I'm. And I love vinyl. I have quite a collection as well. So I'm just excited about it. I'm excited.

Yeah.

I don't know what it is about vinyl. I've got this illness, I think.

Look, see, that's how I was growing up, you know, collecting and going to the record shop, spend all my money on vinyl.

But you know, as I. As I was reading that article, Chris, you brought me back to the days when I was 11, 12 years old, and I'd run down to this little corner store called Harry's Amusements. It was about six blocks from our house, seven blocks from our house. And I would run down there. And this is back when a 45 was like a buck and a half.

Okay.

I got my first album of Elvis Presley. And I can't remember the name of it, but I have a copy of it over there.

Okay.

And I bought that from Lucky's Amusements over on the west side of town when I was at my grandmother's bakery that she was working at.

Okay.

I don't know why I ever got away from it, but I have to tell you, I've got a. I have a vintage PL518 Pioneer over here. I know this is geek talk for some of you. It's an incredible direct drive turntable that has been totally refurbished from 1978.

Oh, wow.

It's almost 50 years old. Well, it's. No, no, it's not my original. This is what I just picked up within the last year.

Okay. Okay.

And so, I mean, I, I got a nice piece of equipment to listen to my, my stuff on.

Okay.

Using an Ortofon stylus, which is high dollar, but it's okay. Telling you the quality and listening to the, to the clicks and the pops and the white noise and you know that, that whole thing about pulling the thing out of the. The vinyl out of the sleeve, right?

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Now, Chris, here's your moment to shine, man. Where can people go to find out more about you? Maybe pick up that album, some merchandise, or even book you for a gig.

Okay, well, you can find me on Facebook, Chris D. Henderson. That's my artist page. So all of my upcoming shows, live performances, anything that's new and updated with me, you can find it there. Chris D. Henderson on Facebook, as well as Christopher Henderson on Instagram. You can book me@chrishendersonbookingmail.com you can pick up the vinyl pre order, like I said, starts tomorrow. ElasticStage.com and you can. It'll be available April 28, elasticstage.com same website, and you can order it from there. I will have hard copies next month, so if anyone would like to reach out to me and have them sign and I can send them out, they can have that option as well. I am releasing a new single called Heartbreak Blues. Blues Heartbreak. And that will be released later this month. April.

Very cool. So you got a lot going on, man.

Oh yeah, man. Hey, I try not to let the grass grow under my feet. I try to keep it moving.

Good thing to do, man.

Yeah.

Christopher Henderson, it has been a pleasure my friend. Thank you so much for joining me today on Time Signatures and I genuinely look forward to meeting up with you down the road.

Most definitely. Thank you so much. I appreciate for all all that you do for blues artists and what you do giving us a platform and you'll contribute to the blues. Much appreciated. And hey, I'm looking forward to see meeting you one day.

Yes, sir. Well, thank you so much. That means a lot. And before we wrap up here, I want to remind you that it takes an estimated 5,000 music streams to raise the equivalent of a $20 CD. Now I couldn't believe that either, but I've made it my policy to buy music from the artist first. And then and only then I will stream from the various platforms. I mean if we want live music out there, we owe it to them to spend our hard earned cash and supporting their music and merchandise. Trust me when I tell you they will thank you every single time. And thank you for your consideration, folks. And that concludes this edition of Time Signatures. Once again, my thanks to our guest Chris Henderson, but also to you. For without you, none of this would be possible. Jim Irvin reminding you Keeping the blues alive is everyone's responsibility. But preserving the history of the blues, one story at a time, that's my mission. Until next time. So long everybody.

This has been Time Signatures with Jim Irvin presented by the Capital Area Blues society in Lansing, Michigan. For more information on CABS, visit capitalareablues.org you can find this episode and past episodes@lccconnect.org the Time Signature's theme song, Michigan Roads is used by permission and was written by Root Doctor featuring Freddie Cunningham. Until next time, keep on keeping the blues alive. Examining the issues and topics that affect our lives from the local level to the world stage. Listen to the programs of LCC connect anytime@lccconnect.org LCC Connect, voices, vibes, Vision.

The stage is alive and well at Lansing Community College. Each year, the downtown campus comes to life with more than 30 performances and at Dart Auditorium, the Black Box Theater and LCC's outdoor amphitheater. These productions are more than entertainment. They're part of the learning experience. Students in LCC's performing arts program gain hands on experience both on stage and behind the scenes. Developing confidence, creativity and collaboration from powerful plays to lively concerts. LCC's performances celebrate local talent and the vibrant spirit of the arts in our community. All performances are free. Find out what's next at LCC. Edu ShowInfo.

Hi, I'm Greg Ladig and I host a show called Stars on Sports with Assistant Athletic Director Steven Cutter here on LCC Connect. It's all about Lansing Community College Athletic Department. You can always find out more about Stars on Sports and listen on demand@lccconnect.org Calm down your world. Well, I'll have a real good time.

Aloha.

I'm Ben Hassinger, Michigan's ukulele ambassador and founder of Mighty UKgate, a celebration of the diminutive yet dynamic ukulele. This year we'll be kicking things off with a special FundRaiser on Saturday, April 11th at the SIR Pizza Old Town Pub. The day begins with our monthly morning meeting of laugh, the Lansing Area Ukulele Group, followed by concerts, group strums, open mic, a silent auction and plenty of ukulele fun. Scheduled performers include the Ukulele Kings, Vinyl Resting Place, the PT Strummers and others to be announced. We'll also be recording the mighty UK Day 16 theme song for a viral video release. Join us for this celebration of strumming and singing Saturday, April 11 at the SIR Pizza Old Town Park. Proceeds from the Mighty UK Day benefit the nonprofit Music is the foundation. For more information and advanced tickets, visit mightyyukday.com that's mightyyukeday.com

returning to school can be a challenge. If you're a recent high school grad, a new Michigan Reconnect participant at lcc, or a GED holder, we want to help you succeed with extra support in reading, writing and math. LCC's Coalition for College and Career Readiness presents College Connect, a four week no cost initiative created to prepare students with the tools needed to succeed at lcc. College Connect begins in July, but seating is limited. To find deadline and enrollment information, visit lcc. Edu cc, LCC Connect Voices Vibes Vision

this is Amy Wagonar from the Historical Society of Michigan with a Michigan History moment. They were German prisoners of war. They had survived combat in North Africa and Europe, but they died in Michigan. During the Second World War. Michigan hosted about 6,000 enemy prisoners of war, mostly Germans and Italians, as part of a national system that processed 425,000 prisoners in all. Prisoners of war started coming to Michigan in mid-1943. They lived in Michigan's system of 32 base and sub camps and worked voluntarily at jobs that were deemed not war related. That included farm labor and working in food processing factories. In 1944, prisoners of war composed one third of Michigan's agricultural labor force. They were paid for their work and scrip redeemable at the camp canteens. One of the prisoners of war camps was Camp Blissfield, located in southeastern Michigan's Lenawee county near the Ohio state line. The war was over with the prisoners awaiting repatriation to Germany. On the afternoon of October 31, 1945, 24 prisoners piled into an army truck for the ride back to camp. From the Raymond Beck farm, the truck approached a railroad crossing a half mile from camp. The truck driver never saw the oncoming New York Central Railroad passenger train. It slammed into the truck at full speed. 16 German prisoners and their American guard were killed. The driver was injured but survived. An investigation found that weeds and tree branches had hidden the oncoming train from his view. The prisoners had planned a Halloween party for that evening. Back at camp, their homemade masks and costumes went unworn and few of them could eat the special meal that the cooks had prepared. The bodies were sent for burial to the main Michigan camp, Camp Custer, near Battle Creek. Three funeral services took place on November 3rd, one Lutheran, one Catholic, and one for the men who had declared themselves non religious. Funeral services took place on Sunday, November 4th at Camp Blissfield. Local clergymen officiated and one of the prisoners, who was a musician, played a violin solo of Ave Maria. The German's senior officer then called the men to attention and read the names of the dead. Then an eight man firing party fired three volleys. Nearby, work stopped at the Great Lakes Sugar Company where American and German workers alike paused for a minute of silence. The German soldiers still rest in the Camp Custer Cemetery where mourning ceremonies are conducted every November. This Michigan history moment was brought to you by michiganhistorymagazine.org.

Featuring the faculty, staff, students and others that helped to make Lansing's premier college what it is today. LCC Connect Mid Michigan's connection to Lansing Community College. To find out more about our featured programs or to listen on demand, Visit us@lccconnect.org

LCC Connect Voices vibes Vision.

Lansing Community College Performing Arts presents 1984 by George Orwell Adapted for the stage by Nick Hearn. Winston Smith has been imprisoned for committing thought crimes against Big Brother. As part of his RE education, he is forced to relive key moments from his past, reenacting his mistakes alongside other thought criminals so that all may learn from his failure, especially his greatest crime of all, falling in Love with Julia George Orwell's 1984 remains a powerful and chilling vision of life under totalitarianism set against a world of surveillance, control and fear. Featured in LCC's Dart Auditorium April 10th through the 12th and April 17th and 18th. All performances are free to attend. Visit LCC.edu showinfo for showtime details.

Feeling froggy? Well leap into 20 plus podcasts at LCC Connect Art Happens Here, the podcast

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I'm your host Bruce Mackley. Listen to this program and many others on demand@lccconnect.org. What is dedication?

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LCC Connect Voices vibes Vision

it's time for Stars on Sports, a podcast radio

show dedicated to sharing stories about our athletic program at lcc. Past and present.

Lansing Community College athletics has a strong tradition.

25 National Championships over 190 all Americans 19 MCCAA all sports trophies Tarzan Sports

want to introduce you to individuals that have contributed to our program success and give you the backstory on what it takes to develop it.

We'll also dive into and break down the topics and issues facing athletic departments across the nation. And right here at lcc, this is Stars on Sports.

I'll have a real good time. Hello and welcome to another episode of Stars on Sports. I'm joined today by our A Team Assistant Athletic Director Steven Cutter and our producer, Dadalion Lowry. And gentlemen. You know, it seems like in the past we've talked about words that I've asked you, is it positive or negative? And I think I found another one today that I think fits that mold. And I like to see which direction we go with it. And it's actually a word. I'm not even sure I really know the total. The definition of it or get it confused with some other words. And it's ego. And we deal with egos in sports. And like many things we've talked about, it can be good or it can be bad. And I think the word ego has a negative kind of tone to it. But having said that, in sports, you know, and you and I have had a lot of conversations, you need an ego to be. And again, I'd like to talk a little bit about difference between confidence and ego. But what do you think of ego? Positive or negative or.

The best artists create the best work when they do it for themselves.

He's feeling philosophical.

Can you say that again, please?

The best artists create the best work when they do it for themselves. We all have egos. It's part of the muscle between our ears. And sometimes they can run wild and sometimes people can keep them in check. But as you like to. A word you like to use, balance it is.

That's the key word. Moderation. Everything. Moderation.

It's somewhere in there.

That is a great quote. I'm glad you started with that because about doing for themselves. But I want the dallian to chime. We didn't let Dadalion chime in early last week.

Well, that's all right. I'm fine with that because I don't have an overinflated ego, and I'm good with that. But me too, as far as ego goes, it goes so many different ways. I guess I think of instantly of the many times because of my music background. Very often I talk to people and they talk about a singer in a band that they don't like because he's got such or she's got such a big ego. And I go, yes, but it takes that ego to do what they're doing, and they kind of need that to front that band. That having been said, I'm not somebody that I necessarily feel like I have a big ego, but it's not to say that I don't. It kind of relates to confidence. You know, confidence and ego kind of go hand in hand.

Very much so they do.

And I wasn't even sure the difference in the definition of confidence and ego. But I did find it. Confidence is inner certainty and trusting your abilities, where ego is a sense of self important, driven by the need for external validations, which I think is very interesting. Important and superiority. But again, good segues. Yes. Dalian, I agree with you. I don't. I. I think people do struggle with those that do have big edos, but I think the one that do it best have it, but keep it in check. You know, humility, like the opposite word I kind of think of. And, you know, that's a word I really like that. I think leaders have to be humble or demonstrate humility. So I think the ego part is just keeping it in check. But to your point, the best athlete, the best musician, the best in any field, probably their ego is probably what's helped get them there because of their identity of excelling in that particular spectrum that they excel in. And to your quote. Yeah, I mean, we talk about, like, especially in sports, how a lot of kids play because their parents want them to play. But if you're all in on something, you have to do it for yourself. And why that quote is huge in my mind is because the best one do have that inner self. And I think that that balance of confidence and ego.

Well, I think when you're talking about that though, then, you know, based on the definitions that you've given, it's almost like it kind of goes more into confidence in that manner. Because you said that ego requires the external validation. Is that the definition that was part

of this particular definition?

Especially since there's so many different definitions of ego.

Right, right. But where it fits in is it's a sense of yourself. It's your identity. And you know, we're going to talk about. We had a nice podcast in our office yesterday on identity that we're. We're going to take that word and just do a whole podcast on it. But where ego fits in sports is self belief, desire to be the best. And it does. It's kind of fed by the confidence in your own ability. And, you know, ego can be what drives someone to say, give me the ball, put me on the mound at the end of the game, let me be the goalie. You know, we talk about, you know, we talked about performance under pressure in previous ones, and it's still the external

validation thing that comes in. But you'll see with high performers or people that are more comfortable in pressure situations, they already have that belief system in themselves, and they're going to get that external validation because they perform well, when the building's on fire. So it's not necessarily a searching for happens because they're doing well with whatever it might be.

And we'll get to that. Because I also think again, the external validation is what leads to overused ego. But because it can, you're right, it can feel greatness or get in the way of it. And it is a motivator. It's refusing to settle, it's refusing to lose. And the other word I think ego gets confused with is arrogance. And that's again what we've talked about. I think the Dalian, when someone is arrogant, that's when they kind of put people off.

So would you say that Muhammad Ali had a big ego or was he arrogant?

I would say both because he excelled because of his ego. But he was a little arrogant. I mean, I liked him, but he put people off because he complained I'm the greatest in the world.

So it's not necessarily the ego people have a problem with, it's the arrogance, right?

Yeah, but I think ego leads to too much ego is when it becomes arrogant.

They're similar. It's arrogance is the display of superiority or self importance characterized by overbearing pride and contempt for others.

It's that just came up with that

right off the overriding belief system that somewhat turns.

Yeah. And ego. You need ego. Back to what we've talked about to say I belong here, I'm capable of doing it. I'm going to prove them wrong. So.

So what great sports person that's played sports that's been labeled as a great ambassador for sports doesn't have what we're talking about right now?

Yeah, I would. I don't think none.

You can't name any because Michael Jordan. It's a prerequisite for that.

It is. I mean they have an ego, but I think I my own because sportsmanship is so important to me. The ones that have the biggest ego but keep it in check are my favorite student athletes or my favorite athlete. The ones. And I like Muhammad Ali too. But the ones that come across as arrogant and don't keep their ego in check are the ones that I probably disassociate a little bit. And I think to your point, it does turn people that if their ego gets to arrogance, it does turn people off.

But it's kind of like Charles Barkley, what he used to say, I'm not a role model.

Well, I would disagree.

Do you remember that?

I do. And I like Charles Barker.

He was a basketball player, you know, and so it Kind of lines into that. I think that the people that have accomplished extreme success aren't necessarily so worried about what other people are thinking about their ego.

And we're talking about us seeing people with ego. I also want to hit on, you know, dealing with kids with egos on your team. And again, I think it's a positive thing because our best players have, I think, been proven to have them. You know, it can help them be bold. It can help them be a little more fearless. It helps with identity, which, again, we're not going to go into somewhat delusional. Somewhat. I mean. I mean, yeah, because it's. It's almost to the. It's. It's actually a word I'm starting to like even more because, as you know, one of my favorite things is go to the line, touch the line. If you go over the line, you're hurting yourselves. If you go under the line, you're hurting yourself. And ego is that. Is that. Say is a great word that if you go. If you don't have enough ego, you're not getting to the line. If you have too much ego, it's probably hurting you. But you have to get to touch that line to be successful, to train like a pro, you know, and even in handling adversity and failure. And I think that's where ego gets confused a little bit, is I think the ones that have a healthy ego use it as fuel. The ones that don't, it becomes an excuse. They become defensive. But I think as we deal with student athletes, as coaches and administrators, we gotta help them use it to push them forward. And if we don't keep it in check, then it becomes a negative for our team. So let's talk about the negative part a bit. A little bit, because I just hit on it a little bit. And again, the Dalian you hit on, like, when we sit back and see someone with a big ego. But when we're dealing with kids with ego, they're probably usually selfish. They. They blame others.

They're focused on themselves.

They are focused on them, which, again, to your quote, though, which is really hard.

Which is really a hard thing in a team environment. When you want a team that has high belief systems and high belief systems in themselves, but then you also want a team that's selfless and is willing to give to others as much as they give to themselves. So you have to really work on

that, and you do. And I think the one thing, that part of the thing that leads to ego is there hasn't been that accountability partner that we've talked about in the past, that no one's held them in check because, like one of the quotes I've heard that it sticks with me is when a coach told me is I'd rather put out a fire than start a fire. And what they meant by that is I'd rather try and reel someone in that has a lot of motivation than trying to get somebody to do something that they're not motivated to. To do. And I think that's true with ego. I'd rather reel someone in with a high ego than try and get someone that doesn't have an ego to get where they want to be. And again, we know it's a muscle too, that you can train and teach them and help build their confidence to have an ego. But I truly believe those with the highest ego have not been checked, haven't been held accountable, haven't been called out on their actions. And I think it's pretty prevalent in sport because of highlight reels. And, you know, we put so much emphasis on their identity through their success as a student athlete. So It's a catch 22 that we're feeding into their ego and we're not reeling it in. Especially some of the most successful student athletes that have been successful at a young age that their athleticism has paved their way and they're not. They haven't been held accountable in some of the other things that they should be, such as being a good teammate.

I think history shows us with some of the best athletes at the collegiate level, professional level, they weren't necessarily the best teammates until they ran into coaches that were able to teach them how the importance of that and that they could actually get further than just climbing the mountain on their own.

And someone checked them in. And I believe Michael Jordan had that same thing where Phil, he wasn't a great teammate at the beginning of his pro career, but Phil Jackson gets a lot of credit for helping with that and building a team. Because, great point. You can't. Even though your quote says you do it for yourself, but you can't do it without others. Again, a lot of research about the importance of social interaction and how important having that is to be successful in life now. So, and I. That's where I believe ego get the negative connotation is because it gets in the way of that. If you have a large ego, I think it can impact your relationships with your team or with your community per se. So it is up to the coach or adult or someone to help keep that ego check. And again, so in the end it's, it's really about managing it and keeping it in check. And some of the ways to, to do that is focus on the team. Again we do give individual credit, but I think, you know, some of those, they've received too much individual credit. Being coachable is I think is important reminding, you know, that the growth mindset, I think of a fixed mindset a little bit with ego because they almost think they're too good, they're better, they don't need to hustle or they rely on their athleticism to again the one that aren't that have gone unchecked with their ego. That, that is, those are characteristics that it's gone too far. You know, the great one I like is compete with yourself. I mean again, I think egos also are led to by getting validation for the result. Where it's more like we've talked about is being better than yesterday. Compete with yourself. You know, compete for yourself. You know, I think that can help keep an ego in check.

And that's also a more challenging thing to do to compete with yourself than it is to compete with others. Mainly because like with the ego it's, it really is like really important for things like self esteem and confidence, that kind of stuff. And when, when you're competing with yourself, you're somewhat, you know, ripping that band aid off all the time. And that's not as great as competing with somebody else and beating them, you know, consistently. So that's why it becomes harder for athletes and stuff to compete with themselves on a daily basis. That doesn't mean that they can't do it. I mean plenty are trained to do it, but it's, it's easier to compete with somebody else than it is yourself.

Yeah, it's more visible, more tangible. I agree, that's a nice perspective and very important because we do always, I believe we need a scoreboard of some sort to measure how good we're getting. But we usually look at the external one instead of the internal one. And there's, there's a lot of ways in sports, you know, like an example of doing 12 push ups instead of 10 push up the one day or the other. But they, I think the key to keeping ego from negative is separating it from, from your identity. And I think that's where again an eagle on check goes. That becomes their identity. They become not Steven Cutter, but baseball coach or a star athlete. People have identified them as a basketball player or a cross country runner and not that particular person. And then we've seen that be too much pressure for some people, you know, to handle and difficult to deal with. We're almost feeding into it. And our society does feed into it, because back to being a role model, they are maybe not considered role models, but indirectly, people are looking up to them and want to be like them. So especially in the student athletes. So any change of thought on if it's positive or negative, I'm only going

to bring this up because usually, like you, you tell me after the podcast that you wish I'd brought it up. But I was thinking the most. And this is a fictional character, but a probably good approach or thought process of ego and play would be. And I was trying to look it up, but Charlie Sheen's character, Wild thing.

Major League.

Yeah, Major league. There you go. And that.

Great movie.

The process of actually seeing an ego still in play, you know what I'm saying? Where he was very selfish in the beginning, blamed other people for his problems, and then transformed. By the time he was done, he had ego in check, but it was still a part of his character.

Great example. I got a better one, though, Ted Lasso. Because if we're gonna mention shows, I mean. But seriously, I, you know, I would travel this weekend to watch our cross country team win the national championship.

In the snow.

In the snow. It was a blizzard. So Fort Dodge, Iowa, got a lot of snow this weekend.

I assume you're going to talk about the character of Jamie.

Jamie is. But Roy too. But Jamie is the main one throughout the three season that they change from being all about him and wanting the ball and wanting to score. And you see that dad had an important, important role of, you need the goals, you need the goals. And, you know, Ted really worked on him, you know, you know, like one of the lines he said, and I can't remember when they're, you know, you're one in a million, Jamie, but on this team, I need you to be one of 11, you know, and his talent is astronomically high, but we need him to fit on this team to be successful. But it comes down again, checking it. And Ted tried to check it. The manager on Major League worked on checking wild things. And the one that don't are the ones that don't become successful. So ego isn't good or bad. It's more just how we manage. If, you know a controlled one is good, an unchecked one leads to chaos. So, you know, the best athlete, they walk that line. They're confident, not cocky. They know they're great, but they know there's More to do. And again, it comes back with humility and conviction, and let it be your edge, not your enemy. So I think it is a positive word. I think we, as society, we think of it as a negative word. But I think in sports, it's a necessity to be great, but it's also something you have to manage. Because one of my favorite paradoxes, the strength to the extreme becomes a weakness. And that is true for your ego. Balance. Right. Anything else on ego? Cut.

No.

Any good quote then? You started with a great one. Man out of the just blue with

an artist can only handle one at a time, so balance.

So. Oh, good stuff. And then we get no bowling examples today. That's okay. We'll save that for next week. So usually we. We. We record this on the day after you have bowling, so.

Well, I know I. Well, I did bowl.

And your ego didn't get in the way.

It's bruised.

Yeah, yeah, pretty much. I mean, we were pretty much at the bottom of the pile, so, you know, I mean, seventh place or something like that, I think.

Oh, we got where you're at today. Not. Let's get that.

That was the first half of the season, too, so. Yeah, we did not win the first half of the season championship.

I think that happened last year, too. And you really.

I know.

Yeah.

Yeah, we're notorious for that, actually. It's not intentional. It really is not.

Okay, so let's wrap this up with our food question. I was listening to a podcast on Thanksgiving today, and the podcast mentioned that 60%, I think, of Americans don't like certain traditional Thanksgiving dishes. And I think that's. And 30% are moving away from Turkey as their main dish. Pork is number two now, which is interesting to me. So there you go. There you go. Some Thanksgiving facts on stars on sports. So, I mean, I saw you shake your head about turkey. That wasn't going to be the question I asked. So yams. But that is. Yams is your least favorite or.

I don't know. I was just throwing it out there. Okay, you didn't ask the question yet, so I've got.

I'm gonna ask, what is your least favorite Thanksgiving dish? I'll go first. Cranberry sauce, hands down. And then another one, which then leads to our.

Another question.

Is like, the dish that my family always bring. My wife is famous for green bean casserole. I hate it. Sorry, honey. But my kids love it. But that's another one I wouldn't eat. But that's the one she'll take whenever we Go place. Cause everyone else loves it, so. But cranberry sauce is my number one. I won't even touch it.

Now you're talking about the stuff that comes out of the. Can you just plop it out?

Any of that red stuff?

I'll be honest with you. Thanksgiving is one of my least favorite holidays when it comes to food. I am a notoriously picky eater, and I really do not like any Thanksgiving food whatsoever.

Wow.

I will easily, you know, if I have other options on the table. Like if somebody, like, brought tacos, for instance, I would take tacos. I really don't care for turkey that much. I will eat it, but I don't care for it. And I'm pretty sure I'm safe to do this because I don't think my mom's gonna listen to this.

What? I'm gonna mention it.

She. Since I was a kid, used to make this cranberry sauce, and I used to like it quite a bit when I was a kid. As I've grown older, though, I don't care for it. So every year, I have to make sure I eat a little bit of it or just tell her eventually, I don't like this anymore, and it's not so bad that I can't eat it. It's not like that kind of a food. But, yeah, I really don't care for Thanksgiving food at all.

Okay.

I think more and more people are kind of going towards that belief, according to this podcast. And we'll talk about turkey in our next one, though. But because he had a. I've never

done the fried turkey. Has anybody done that?

I have not. Yeah.

Is that any better?

It's better.

Yeah, it's better.

We'll talk about that next week.

All right.

We'll talk about turkey. What about you, Cutter?

I think I go back to, you know, to Dallian's. Making me feel better about my pickiness and food. You know, I'm picky, feeling better about myself, but, you know, once.

Helping your ego a little.

Yeah, well played.

We talk about moms, and my mom is notorious for making these, you know, squash and all, you know, and it just, like, that's. Yeah. But I've let her know it's terrible.

I'll be honest, I didn't even think of the squash. Squash is definitely the worst food out of.

I would. I don't mind, like, acorn squash with a lot of brown sugar, but you gotta have sugar.

It's like you're eating baby food.

Yeah, I agree.

Yes.

Yeah. I wouldn't wash one behind my I was worried you were gonna say yams. I actually like sweet potatoes, but I don't eat them a lot. But good stuff. Again, I don't know how we get going on that thing, but we're gonna do it again next week and until that time Go Stars. Stars on Sports is recorded live at the WLNZ Studios. Engineering and production assistants are provided by Dadalion Lowry and you can listen to the episode and other episodes of Stars on Sports on the main@lccconnect.org to find more information about our athletic program, visit lccstars.com thanks for listening. Be sure to join us next time. For more Stars on Sports.

Go Stars.

I'll have a real good time.

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