1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,519 we like to use kind of a funnel system where we'll be, we'll use gifted campaigns 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,079 or less expensive collaborations. 3 00:00:08,659 --> 00:00:13,039 To see to almost, you know, test the waters with influencers in the sense 4 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,279 that, you know, does their, will their audience really find this, you know, 5 00:00:16,279 --> 00:00:19,289 we like them, we think they're a great fit, they're on brand, you know, love 6 00:00:19,309 --> 00:00:23,149 the style of their content, you know, and the, the last part of that equation 7 00:00:23,149 --> 00:00:24,659 is, will their audience resonate? 8 00:00:25,069 --> 00:00:32,659 And, you know, we like to take multiple smaller bets up front. 9 00:00:33,094 --> 00:00:36,064 And then start to double down as you understand what, you 10 00:00:36,064 --> 00:00:37,164 know, what really resonates. 11 00:00:42,169 --> 00:00:46,409 Welcome to the e commerce podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 12 00:00:46,429 --> 00:00:49,099 E commerce podcast is all about helping you deliver. 13 00:00:49,579 --> 00:00:50,499 E commerce. 14 00:00:50,649 --> 00:00:51,189 well. 15 00:00:51,459 --> 00:00:55,629 And to help us do just that today, I am chatting with my 16 00:00:55,639 --> 00:00:57,579 guest Vinod Varma from creator. 17 00:00:57,579 --> 00:01:01,569 co about influencer marketing. 18 00:01:01,719 --> 00:01:03,299 Yes, I am. 19 00:01:03,299 --> 00:01:06,039 And this is not the first time we've talked about influence marketing. 20 00:01:06,349 --> 00:01:09,039 No, but it is the first time we have talked about it on the e 21 00:01:09,059 --> 00:01:10,639 commerce podcast with the legend. 22 00:01:10,864 --> 00:01:11,554 That is Vinod. 23 00:01:11,614 --> 00:01:12,104 Oh yes. 24 00:01:12,124 --> 00:01:16,714 Now you can find our entire podcast archive for free on our 25 00:01:16,714 --> 00:01:18,224 website at ecommercepodcast. 26 00:01:18,224 --> 00:01:19,994 net if you want to check out other episodes. 27 00:01:20,314 --> 00:01:23,814 Plus if you sign up to our newsletter, uh, whilst you're there on the 28 00:01:23,814 --> 00:01:26,734 website, all of the show notes, all of the links, everything comes to 29 00:01:26,734 --> 00:01:28,944 your inbox automatically for free. 30 00:01:29,074 --> 00:01:29,904 with no drama. 31 00:01:30,004 --> 00:01:31,374 So make sure you signed up to that. 32 00:01:31,914 --> 00:01:34,944 Now are you struggling to grow your e commerce business? 33 00:01:34,944 --> 00:01:38,324 Do you feel like you're constantly spinning your wheels, trying to 34 00:01:38,324 --> 00:01:40,544 figure out what to focus on next? 35 00:01:40,544 --> 00:01:43,864 Well let me tell you, we have been there, I have been there especially, 36 00:01:43,884 --> 00:01:45,924 and I know how frustrating it can be. 37 00:01:46,644 --> 00:01:48,264 That's why we did Cohort. 38 00:01:48,334 --> 00:01:53,304 Oh, yes, the eCommerce Cohort, which is the proud sponsor of this show. 39 00:01:53,684 --> 00:01:58,004 Now eCommerce Cohort helps eCommerce businesses like yours deliver an 40 00:01:58,004 --> 00:02:01,104 exceptional customer experience that drives results and to help 41 00:02:01,104 --> 00:02:07,204 you get started, there is a free resource called eCommerce Cycles. 42 00:02:07,224 --> 00:02:11,194 It's a mini course which walks you through our proven framework for 43 00:02:11,204 --> 00:02:12,704 building a successful eCommerce business. 44 00:02:12,714 --> 00:02:14,214 eCommerce business. 45 00:02:14,674 --> 00:02:19,234 I'm going to show you the specific steps I take in my own eCom companies so that you 46 00:02:19,234 --> 00:02:24,654 can see exactly how to put these concepts into practice in your own website. 47 00:02:24,694 --> 00:02:26,904 Oh yes, and the good news, it's free. 48 00:02:27,074 --> 00:02:28,914 You don't even need an email address. 49 00:02:28,944 --> 00:02:32,374 Now you can just go watch it at eCommerceCycles. 50 00:02:32,704 --> 00:02:32,964 com. 51 00:02:32,964 --> 00:02:35,384 That's all one word, eCommerceCycles. 52 00:02:36,544 --> 00:02:37,054 com. 53 00:02:37,644 --> 00:02:42,224 Now, we get into it, it's probably worth saying that Vinod and I met 54 00:02:42,254 --> 00:02:45,974 at Subsummit, so big shout out to Subsummit, uh, if you haven't done 55 00:02:45,974 --> 00:02:47,334 so already, check it out, subsummit. 56 00:02:47,374 --> 00:02:47,594 com. 57 00:02:47,594 --> 00:02:50,414 And if you're not going in 2024, you probably should, uh, and 58 00:02:50,414 --> 00:02:51,334 we'll probably talk about that. 59 00:02:51,714 --> 00:02:55,314 Uh, now Vinod is the founder and CEO of creator. 60 00:02:55,604 --> 00:02:59,244 co, which is an insane domain name, Vinod, I'm not gonna lie, uh, a globally 61 00:02:59,254 --> 00:03:04,514 recognized influencer marketing platform that pushes the boundaries on how creators 62 00:03:04,514 --> 00:03:07,134 and brands collaborate, grow, and earn. 63 00:03:07,334 --> 00:03:12,514 He serves On the advisory board of the Influencer Academy and as a business 64 00:03:12,514 --> 00:03:17,494 mentor for League of Innovators, which just sounds very superhero y, doesn't it? 65 00:03:17,844 --> 00:03:21,364 Uh, Vinod, welcome to the show, man. 66 00:03:21,364 --> 00:03:22,064 Great to have you on. 67 00:03:22,064 --> 00:03:23,814 How are we doing today? 68 00:03:24,649 --> 00:03:25,449 Fantastic. 69 00:03:25,459 --> 00:03:26,329 Thanks for having me. 70 00:03:26,339 --> 00:03:27,959 Appreciate you, uh, bringing me on. 71 00:03:28,624 --> 00:03:29,294 Oh, no, it's great. 72 00:03:29,304 --> 00:03:34,334 Now it is fair to say, bud, that we met in the speakers lounge at Subsummits, the 73 00:03:34,334 --> 00:03:35,934 very posh speakers lounge, don't you know? 74 00:03:35,994 --> 00:03:36,594 Yeah, it's lovely. 75 00:03:40,039 --> 00:03:40,889 It was very posh. 76 00:03:41,469 --> 00:03:42,449 We just had a great time. 77 00:03:42,449 --> 00:03:43,099 We just chatted. 78 00:03:43,319 --> 00:03:44,459 We chatted for a while, didn't we? 79 00:03:44,459 --> 00:03:46,489 We just kept going and going and going it felt like. 80 00:03:47,339 --> 00:03:48,189 Did you enjoy the show? 81 00:03:48,189 --> 00:03:50,009 Did you, did you enjoy what was going on there? 82 00:03:50,729 --> 00:03:51,549 the show was great. 83 00:03:51,549 --> 00:03:55,519 Yeah, it was, uh, it was a great mix of, uh, a lot, a lot of, you 84 00:03:55,519 --> 00:04:00,919 know, entrepreneurial minded, uh, subscription box, uh, owners and, and 85 00:04:00,929 --> 00:04:04,819 those who are, who are running the ops for companies like, like that. 86 00:04:04,919 --> 00:04:09,029 Um, but yeah, I found it, I found it very, very fascinating to get a little bit more. 87 00:04:09,659 --> 00:04:12,989 Uh, in depth on that space, particularly, and how subscription 88 00:04:12,999 --> 00:04:16,909 boxes work, and how they're a little bit different from your standard, uh, 89 00:04:17,189 --> 00:04:20,529 e commerce company, or, or CPG brand. 90 00:04:21,224 --> 00:04:21,974 yeah, no, absolutely. 91 00:04:22,374 --> 00:04:23,234 I learned a lot, actually. 92 00:04:23,234 --> 00:04:26,434 I learned a ton from some of the speakers there at the conference, which was great. 93 00:04:26,434 --> 00:04:28,324 We've got some of them coming on the show, which is awesome. 94 00:04:28,814 --> 00:04:32,314 Uh, but yeah, I learned a lot, so, uh, great time at SubSummit, and the 95 00:04:32,314 --> 00:04:34,164 speakers lounge was nice, actually. 96 00:04:34,254 --> 00:04:35,634 Uh, yeah, nice sodas in there. 97 00:04:35,704 --> 00:04:36,144 It's awesome. 98 00:04:36,274 --> 00:04:36,564 Easy. 99 00:04:37,074 --> 00:04:40,094 Uh, so, tell us about Creator Co. 100 00:04:40,094 --> 00:04:41,654 What, what you guys do. 101 00:04:42,539 --> 00:04:46,479 Yeah, Creator, you know, when you peel everything back at the end of the day, 102 00:04:46,629 --> 00:04:51,239 we just make collaborating with brands and creators easier for the two parties. 103 00:04:51,619 --> 00:04:56,799 So, sort of like a marketplace, uh, that's, that's run by some, 104 00:04:56,869 --> 00:04:59,329 some pretty intuitive software that essentially makes... 105 00:04:59,834 --> 00:05:03,124 It easier for the brands to find the influencers they want and manage 106 00:05:03,154 --> 00:05:04,894 collaborations to the finish line. 107 00:05:05,314 --> 00:05:08,924 For creators, it gives essentially a marketplace of opportunities 108 00:05:08,924 --> 00:05:10,254 for them where they can find and. 109 00:05:10,694 --> 00:05:13,804 Sift through different opportunities that might appeal to them and then apply to 110 00:05:13,804 --> 00:05:18,274 join any and all that they, that they're interested in and that they qualify for. 111 00:05:18,984 --> 00:05:21,014 So how did you get started in that? 112 00:05:21,024 --> 00:05:24,334 Is that something you sort of went into by accident, or was it more by design? 113 00:05:26,164 --> 00:05:29,634 Uh, starting a business seemed like a good idea at the time. 114 00:05:30,044 --> 00:05:35,134 Um, I mean, prior, prior to this, I was one of the buyers at Best 115 00:05:35,134 --> 00:05:38,264 Buy, uh, responsible for launching actually a lot of the wearables that 116 00:05:38,264 --> 00:05:39,464 you might be familiar with today. 117 00:05:39,464 --> 00:05:42,334 So I had been launching brands like Fitbit, the Apple 118 00:05:42,334 --> 00:05:44,224 iWatch, the Garmin Forerunner. 119 00:05:44,629 --> 00:05:48,459 Samsung Gear, um, and a number of other products as well through dash 120 00:05:48,479 --> 00:05:50,649 cams and, and some cameras as well. 121 00:05:51,029 --> 00:05:55,119 Um, wearables is really where I really kind of cut my teeth 122 00:05:55,119 --> 00:05:56,579 on, on the influencer space. 123 00:05:57,219 --> 00:06:02,989 And what we learned was just how difficult it really is to 124 00:06:03,259 --> 00:06:04,989 scale influencer campaigns. 125 00:06:05,559 --> 00:06:09,049 Um, you know, for everything from finding the influencers 126 00:06:09,139 --> 00:06:10,599 to, you know, managing them. 127 00:06:10,609 --> 00:06:14,699 Sometimes it's a little like herding cats when you get to a big enough campaign. 128 00:06:15,314 --> 00:06:18,844 Um, and that's just because, you know, they're people and they have schedules 129 00:06:18,844 --> 00:06:20,764 and this isn't programmatic advertising. 130 00:06:20,764 --> 00:06:23,334 So we, you know, we like to think we eliminate the pain points. 131 00:06:23,824 --> 00:06:28,684 of what is becoming more and more realized as a necessary 132 00:06:29,044 --> 00:06:30,434 marketing cog in your wheel. 133 00:06:31,409 --> 00:06:31,669 Yeah. 134 00:06:31,669 --> 00:06:35,099 I mean, it's, uh, it's one of those, and you're quite right to 135 00:06:35,099 --> 00:06:37,299 say that, um, right at the start. 136 00:06:37,299 --> 00:06:39,539 We've done, we've talked about influence marketing on an e commerce 137 00:06:39,539 --> 00:06:43,269 podcast before because it is such a big part of our marketing strategy now. 138 00:06:43,309 --> 00:06:43,639 Right. 139 00:06:44,429 --> 00:06:49,309 Um, And I, I was reading somewhere, I can't remember who said it, I was reading 140 00:06:49,309 --> 00:06:53,239 somewhere, um, the comment that every customer is a micro influencer in a lot 141 00:06:53,239 --> 00:06:56,189 of ways, because they're telling somebody, usually something about your brand. 142 00:06:56,849 --> 00:06:59,009 Um, so... 143 00:07:02,554 --> 00:07:07,324 What are, I guess, you know, you, you talked about how your software eliminates 144 00:07:07,334 --> 00:07:09,114 some of the pain points that people have. 145 00:07:09,124 --> 00:07:12,924 So, what are some of those pain points that we experience 146 00:07:12,924 --> 00:07:14,114 with influencer marketing? 147 00:07:14,214 --> 00:07:16,924 Not necessarily what, just what your software sells, but what are some of 148 00:07:16,924 --> 00:07:19,454 the common things that we're going to come up to, uh, come against when 149 00:07:19,454 --> 00:07:20,674 we're doing influencer marketing? 150 00:07:21,524 --> 00:07:25,794 I think there's a few pain points that most brands are experiencing, and we'll 151 00:07:25,794 --> 00:07:29,144 speak from, you know, because creators also have their pain points as well, 152 00:07:29,144 --> 00:07:32,704 so for the purpose of this answer, we'll, I'll stick to the brands for now. 153 00:07:33,234 --> 00:07:37,854 But brands, I mean, first and foremost, it's really trying to understand or 154 00:07:37,854 --> 00:07:42,234 create a strategy that complements It's the overall marketing strategy 155 00:07:42,254 --> 00:07:46,474 and or a specific goal you're looking to accomplish using influencers. 156 00:07:46,474 --> 00:07:51,344 And that could be anywhere from, from more UGC, more content for your product 157 00:07:51,344 --> 00:07:56,424 or your brand to, you know, building an ambassador program or affiliate program 158 00:07:56,464 --> 00:07:59,124 that contributes revenue to your top line. 159 00:07:59,524 --> 00:08:03,234 Um, and you know, you start to build a little bit of community around the brand. 160 00:08:03,624 --> 00:08:06,984 Um, so yeah, I think, you know, understanding your strategy first is 161 00:08:06,994 --> 00:08:11,264 something where brands, you know, it's not like SEO, where the goal is to be more 162 00:08:11,264 --> 00:08:13,464 prominent on, on the web and web searches. 163 00:08:13,754 --> 00:08:17,364 You know, that, that's, there's, there's a pretty good focus there and, and a 164 00:08:17,364 --> 00:08:19,154 lot of different ways to tackle it. 165 00:08:19,704 --> 00:08:25,584 With this, with influencer marketing, I think brands kind of go in maybe 166 00:08:25,584 --> 00:08:30,694 with misaligned expectations or, uh, and, and tailoring that, um, 167 00:08:31,164 --> 00:08:33,534 can really help identify where. 168 00:08:34,029 --> 00:08:38,889 to look for ROAS and where to identify ROI and how to move things along 169 00:08:38,899 --> 00:08:43,519 because there is an inevitable pivot, iterate, pivot, iterate process. 170 00:08:43,939 --> 00:08:46,479 Um, so yeah, strategy would be one. 171 00:08:46,509 --> 00:08:51,369 Finding the influencers, I think, is a very common pain point for brands that 172 00:08:51,839 --> 00:08:55,399 are more savvy in the space and understand the strategies that they need to create. 173 00:08:55,399 --> 00:08:57,729 I think finding influencers is probably their number one. 174 00:08:58,449 --> 00:08:59,039 Pain point. 175 00:08:59,449 --> 00:09:04,299 Um, we have a database of over 200 million creators with industry leading 176 00:09:04,299 --> 00:09:05,819 data, so it makes it really easy. 177 00:09:05,819 --> 00:09:10,839 But I think finding the creators, uh, being able to recruit them at 178 00:09:10,839 --> 00:09:14,839 scale, vet them, understand data points that go beyond the surface 179 00:09:14,839 --> 00:09:19,979 metrics and vanity metrics, that number two, managing creators. 180 00:09:20,089 --> 00:09:24,759 So, you know, they're, it's not something that's easily done in Excel. 181 00:09:24,759 --> 00:09:29,769 And although it's possible because I know brands and indiviuals that are doing it.. 182 00:09:29,769 --> 00:09:35,164 I think once you get to a certain size, size of campaign being, you know, anything 183 00:09:35,164 --> 00:09:41,274 over 10-15 influencers, uh, is going to be more and more difficult to manage 184 00:09:41,274 --> 00:09:45,354 without something a little bit more focused on that, on that pain point. 185 00:09:45,354 --> 00:09:48,254 So managing creators, and that would include paying them. 186 00:09:48,294 --> 00:09:51,804 So, you know, there's contract issues, you know, PayPal, 187 00:09:51,804 --> 00:09:53,774 global payments, all sorts of. 188 00:09:54,139 --> 00:09:56,289 Friction in that area as well. 189 00:09:56,289 --> 00:10:00,269 And Creator makes that a little bit smoother and does 190 00:10:00,269 --> 00:10:01,589 it all kind of in one platform. 191 00:10:01,609 --> 00:10:07,139 So I think strategy being one, finding the influencers, managing and paying 192 00:10:07,139 --> 00:10:11,009 them, uh, and then number four, the big one, which most brands usually 193 00:10:11,009 --> 00:10:13,119 start with is, is what is ROAS? 194 00:10:13,229 --> 00:10:14,349 Like how do you evaluate 195 00:10:14,384 --> 00:10:14,994 Yeah. 196 00:10:15,069 --> 00:10:17,949 And that kind of links back to the first question as well. 197 00:10:17,949 --> 00:10:20,419 What is the strategy that we're driving? 198 00:10:20,824 --> 00:10:21,134 Yeah, 199 00:10:21,189 --> 00:10:21,549 and what. 200 00:10:22,289 --> 00:10:25,699 You know, and what are the milestones you want to hit, or what are the KPIs 201 00:10:25,709 --> 00:10:27,629 that we want to, that we want to impact. 202 00:10:28,514 --> 00:10:30,074 what do people typically want to do? 203 00:10:30,074 --> 00:10:30,804 What do they do? 204 00:10:30,814 --> 00:10:34,064 What's the typical thing that people aim for with their influencer campaign? 205 00:10:34,939 --> 00:10:40,239 Most brands understand that it's, you know, A, paid ads performance 206 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,809 is not doing so hot, and with Google depreciating cookies next 207 00:10:44,809 --> 00:10:45,959 year, it's going to get worse. 208 00:10:46,349 --> 00:10:53,389 So brands that we work with are typically looking to find influencers to create 209 00:10:53,399 --> 00:10:57,709 more content for them, drive that organic awareness, build that trust. 210 00:10:58,379 --> 00:11:03,279 Um, and really poke through the noise, understanding that, you know, very rarely 211 00:11:03,279 --> 00:11:07,209 are, you know, our brands in a, in a siloed space, there's usually a lot of 212 00:11:07,209 --> 00:11:09,279 competition, especially in the CPG space. 213 00:11:09,899 --> 00:11:11,259 How do you break through that noise? 214 00:11:11,609 --> 00:11:15,859 And community is, you know, the number one, I would say, and, 215 00:11:15,879 --> 00:11:22,209 and probably the biggest and most underrated contribute, contribution 216 00:11:22,209 --> 00:11:25,469 that an influencer marketing campaign can bring, um, building community. 217 00:11:25,809 --> 00:11:27,409 We know that, you know. 218 00:11:27,839 --> 00:11:31,959 Coke and Pepsi are nothing more than cola, but it's the community 219 00:11:32,229 --> 00:11:33,619 they've built around them 220 00:11:33,649 --> 00:11:33,979 Yeah. 221 00:11:34,459 --> 00:11:36,369 Makes them you a billion more brands. 222 00:11:36,659 --> 00:11:41,339 And same with Nike, it's not just a running shoe, it's the community, right? 223 00:11:41,554 --> 00:11:41,914 Yeah. 224 00:11:42,729 --> 00:11:46,949 It's those things that separate brands from the pack, and, you know, that should 225 00:11:46,949 --> 00:11:50,839 inspire a lot of founders and challenger brands, because it's definitely possible. 226 00:11:51,149 --> 00:11:52,899 Um, it's just, it's just... 227 00:11:53,259 --> 00:11:57,159 Done differently now and, and you know, you wanna go where, where your 228 00:11:57,159 --> 00:12:01,649 customer's attention are and I believe that that's on social media today. 229 00:12:03,274 --> 00:12:07,814 One of the things, talking about community Vinod, that you said that I, um, when 230 00:12:07,814 --> 00:12:11,964 we met up at, uh, SubSummit, um, it was in my notes here, and I thought 231 00:12:11,964 --> 00:12:13,054 it was a really interesting phrase. 232 00:12:13,054 --> 00:12:17,334 You said, um, There are parts of community that people ignore. 233 00:12:17,334 --> 00:12:21,094 They see influencers transactional rather than nurture them as 234 00:12:21,489 --> 00:12:24,049 Community, which is always better. 235 00:12:24,669 --> 00:12:30,459 What did you mean by that as we're talking a little bit about community here? 236 00:12:30,779 --> 00:12:32,619 It just reminded me and I thought this is going to be a really 237 00:12:32,619 --> 00:12:34,159 interesting thing to dive into. 238 00:12:34,159 --> 00:12:36,159 So let's dig into that. 239 00:12:36,819 --> 00:12:38,499 Yeah, because Can you repeat that for me? 240 00:12:39,039 --> 00:12:39,609 There was a bit of, 241 00:12:39,749 --> 00:12:42,689 So, um, there are parts of the community that people ignore. 242 00:12:42,709 --> 00:12:46,929 So they see influence as transactional rather than nurture them as 243 00:12:46,959 --> 00:12:48,839 community, which is always better. 244 00:12:49,869 --> 00:12:50,229 yeah. 245 00:12:50,229 --> 00:12:50,559 So. 246 00:12:51,404 --> 00:12:56,274 A lot of, you know, programmatic advertising is transactional and a lot 247 00:12:56,274 --> 00:13:00,994 of marketers have been, have been groomed to operate in that, you know, you give 248 00:13:00,994 --> 00:13:05,614 me, I give you, or, you know, I put money in and I get some impression counter 249 00:13:05,614 --> 00:13:10,754 reach or engagements and that's fine for, for programmatic advertising ads, 250 00:13:10,774 --> 00:13:14,984 banner ads, potentially even a little bit of, you know, PR as well, but with 251 00:13:15,014 --> 00:13:20,154 influencers, because there's a real human there nurturing the relationship and 252 00:13:20,154 --> 00:13:25,579 actually Thank Inviting that individual to be part of your brand versus just 253 00:13:25,579 --> 00:13:28,919 someone who's going to create content and post about it and forget about you. 254 00:13:29,239 --> 00:13:33,079 That can make a huge difference in the way influencers respond to your brand 255 00:13:33,079 --> 00:13:36,759 and the way they think about your brand after the collaboration has transpired. 256 00:13:37,239 --> 00:13:42,449 So, putting a focus on really treating these individuals like, you know, 257 00:13:42,459 --> 00:13:44,329 like, like they're fans, right? 258 00:13:44,339 --> 00:13:48,069 Like they're fans, like they want to contribute, making them feel, uh, 259 00:13:48,089 --> 00:13:49,509 like they're a part of the brand. 260 00:13:50,099 --> 00:13:55,319 is, is gonna, is gonna really impact the, the overall reach and 261 00:13:55,329 --> 00:13:57,229 impact of the campaign itself. 262 00:13:57,799 --> 00:14:03,029 Um, just given the human nature of, of relationships and partnerships in general. 263 00:14:03,319 --> 00:14:06,919 Um, we've all been in partnerships where we probably feel it's lopsided or not 264 00:14:06,919 --> 00:14:10,869 as valued as maybe some other people or the, or the partnership in general. 265 00:14:10,869 --> 00:14:13,189 And I think for influencers, it's no different. 266 00:14:13,729 --> 00:14:17,549 Being able to, you know, feeling valued, feeling heard, those are 267 00:14:17,549 --> 00:14:20,799 all things that just like, you know, just like a team, really, just 268 00:14:20,799 --> 00:14:22,689 like an extension of your own team. 269 00:14:22,699 --> 00:14:26,889 You wouldn't shun ideas, you know, ideally if you're, if you're a good 270 00:14:26,889 --> 00:14:29,609 leader, you're looking for ideas everywhere within your company. 271 00:14:30,149 --> 00:14:34,309 And I think that's becoming more and more apparent with influencer marketing, 272 00:14:34,319 --> 00:14:36,109 you know, you have fantastic brands. 273 00:14:36,714 --> 00:14:41,574 Um, like Lego that, you know, they build community around their brand and use 274 00:14:41,574 --> 00:14:46,274 it as a, as a feeding source for new ideas and innovation, um, as well as 275 00:14:46,284 --> 00:14:49,904 a lot of, a lot of other Fortune 500s are understanding the power of that and 276 00:14:50,364 --> 00:14:54,624 culturing that community around their brand to use as a sounding board, to use 277 00:14:54,624 --> 00:15:01,784 as a PR amplifier, to use, um, as a way to get, you know, boots on the ground without 278 00:15:01,784 --> 00:15:03,464 officially having boots on the ground. 279 00:15:04,169 --> 00:15:05,619 yeah, that's powerful stuff. 280 00:15:05,899 --> 00:15:08,639 I really like the idea, when you said it I thought this was a 281 00:15:08,639 --> 00:15:11,709 really interesting comment in the sense that I think you're right. 282 00:15:11,729 --> 00:15:15,169 Many of us that have done influence of marketing have just seen it as another 283 00:15:15,169 --> 00:15:20,429 transactional channel, like okay, I need my return on investment here, you, this 284 00:15:20,429 --> 00:15:21,709 is what I want you to do, go and do it. 285 00:15:21,709 --> 00:15:23,929 If you, if you, if I like what you do, I'll give you money. 286 00:15:23,939 --> 00:15:26,279 If I don't, we're going to have an argument kind of a thing. 287 00:15:26,989 --> 00:15:31,509 Um, and yeah, the, the, this concept, this idea of actually 288 00:15:31,509 --> 00:15:33,339 that's, that's what everybody does. 289 00:15:33,339 --> 00:15:35,549 Why don't you to be a little bit different, build community. 290 00:15:35,609 --> 00:15:44,384 And in that sense you build, um, You build that loyalty, don't you? 291 00:15:44,384 --> 00:15:51,844 You build that sense of a tribe, um, with people that, sorry, go on, uh, it just 292 00:15:52,014 --> 00:15:53,454 No, you're totally right. 293 00:15:53,454 --> 00:15:54,984 Yeah, the loyalty, the fandom. 294 00:15:55,454 --> 00:15:59,584 Um, yeah, that can carry you a long way. 295 00:15:59,584 --> 00:16:02,264 And that is what differentiates you at the end of the day. 296 00:16:02,264 --> 00:16:05,144 It's those group of people that are unwavering and, you know, 297 00:16:05,144 --> 00:16:06,894 live and breathe your brand value. 298 00:16:08,199 --> 00:16:09,049 Yeah, totally. 299 00:16:09,479 --> 00:16:13,259 So you said, uh, again, from my notes, Vinod, uh, just referring back to our 300 00:16:13,259 --> 00:16:18,839 conversation, uh, in Dallas, find the right influencers, invite them to try 301 00:16:18,839 --> 00:16:22,699 the product and personalize it, invite them to be part of something bigger, 302 00:16:23,549 --> 00:16:29,779 um, and get their feedback, uh, was, seemed to be the, the sort of the 303 00:16:29,779 --> 00:16:32,799 strategy, uh, in a very simple nutshell. 304 00:16:32,809 --> 00:16:35,449 I appreciate this is probably slightly more nuanced than that. 305 00:16:35,889 --> 00:16:37,029 Um, but this was. 306 00:16:37,704 --> 00:16:40,824 Um, this was sort of all part of that, it all sort of tied in, that actually 307 00:16:40,844 --> 00:16:44,374 it don't see influencer marketing as just another transactional outcome, 308 00:16:44,684 --> 00:16:46,084 build a tribe with these people. 309 00:16:46,244 --> 00:16:47,624 Uh, yes, you are paying them. 310 00:16:48,134 --> 00:16:51,944 Um, but it's this kind of, it's the, the way I think about it, it's the old 311 00:16:51,944 --> 00:16:55,374 school way we used to run companies years ago, you know, well, I'm paying 312 00:16:55,374 --> 00:16:56,704 you, you will do what I tell you. 313 00:16:57,174 --> 00:16:58,544 That doesn't go well now, does it? 314 00:17:00,404 --> 00:17:01,694 it doesn't work today. 315 00:17:02,064 --> 00:17:03,634 Um, yeah, and that's it. 316 00:17:03,634 --> 00:17:06,694 I think, you know, yeah, I mean, yeah, that's, that's 317 00:17:06,694 --> 00:17:08,214 definitely a simplified version. 318 00:17:08,214 --> 00:17:12,119 But I think at the end of the day, Taking that approach and I'll speak for 319 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,009 more challenger brands that are maybe introducing products into market or have 320 00:17:16,039 --> 00:17:17,959 recently introduced products in market. 321 00:17:18,499 --> 00:17:24,479 You know, I, you know, I'm totally aware of both sides and, and what, uh, 322 00:17:24,519 --> 00:17:26,479 you know, a slim budget looks like. 323 00:17:26,479 --> 00:17:31,419 So you don't need to spend a ton of money, but you do need to invest the 324 00:17:31,419 --> 00:17:34,609 time and the thinking and the thought process and what this community looks 325 00:17:34,609 --> 00:17:36,119 like, who are going to bring it to them. 326 00:17:36,579 --> 00:17:39,489 Uh, you know, and gifting products for smaller influencers 327 00:17:39,509 --> 00:17:41,389 is, is, is totally fine. 328 00:17:41,839 --> 00:17:46,889 There is a win win where the brand is, is getting some cool content and trusted 329 00:17:46,889 --> 00:17:50,719 exposure, assuming the influencer likes the brand and the product, and the 330 00:17:50,719 --> 00:17:54,819 influencer gets to flex their creative muscle, gets to earn a little bit of 331 00:17:54,819 --> 00:17:58,559 clout showcasing a new brand that maybe other people haven't heard of yet. 332 00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:01,129 Um, so there's, there's a good, you know... 333 00:18:01,544 --> 00:18:05,764 There's a good symbiotic relationship there, and if you can nurture that and 334 00:18:05,764 --> 00:18:10,344 grow, uh, and you can grow together, well, as the brand gets more exposure 335 00:18:10,344 --> 00:18:15,964 and grows and, and camaraderie, then that influencer gets to grow their own clout 336 00:18:15,994 --> 00:18:19,794 because they're seen as being partnered with that brand, and vice versa, that 337 00:18:19,794 --> 00:18:24,124 influencer grows and grows their following and earns more trust, and, uh, then that 338 00:18:24,124 --> 00:18:26,134 brand is also piggybacking off that. 339 00:18:26,134 --> 00:18:29,184 So that's kind of what I'm, You know, trying to, trying to show is there 340 00:18:29,184 --> 00:18:32,714 is a symbiotic relationship and the more influencers you can bring into 341 00:18:32,714 --> 00:18:36,764 your community and nurture, um, the impact of those relationships, 342 00:18:38,104 --> 00:18:39,844 uh, is really exponential. 343 00:18:42,094 --> 00:18:46,324 So, uh, just going back to one of the things you said then, I guess one of 344 00:18:46,324 --> 00:18:49,424 the first questions in my head is if I'm looking to do influencer marketing, 345 00:18:49,444 --> 00:18:53,224 unless maybe I'm already involved in influencer marketing, Vinod, um, and 346 00:18:53,224 --> 00:18:58,384 I'm looking to grow, yeah, looking to grow the amount of influencers we have. 347 00:18:59,159 --> 00:19:02,629 What's a, how do I, how do I know what a good number is? 348 00:19:02,639 --> 00:19:04,939 Should I have 10 influencers working with me? 349 00:19:04,939 --> 00:19:06,249 Should I have 3, 000? 350 00:19:06,249 --> 00:19:09,079 Is it, is it more budget driven? 351 00:19:09,079 --> 00:19:11,069 I mean, how do I know whether I'm on the right track? 352 00:19:11,904 --> 00:19:18,034 You know, there, it's, it's, uh, that's almost like saying, how do 353 00:19:18,034 --> 00:19:19,564 I know I'm painting a good picture? 354 00:19:19,994 --> 00:19:24,364 And so there isn't, you know, it's a little subjective. 355 00:19:24,364 --> 00:19:26,454 There isn't a defined answer for that. 356 00:19:26,504 --> 00:19:31,389 I would say, you know, By virtue of reach and impressions, the more that you 357 00:19:31,389 --> 00:19:34,789 have, the more, you know, reach you'll have, the more content you'll have, so 358 00:19:35,029 --> 00:19:37,039 there's advantage in the volume for sure. 359 00:19:37,499 --> 00:19:43,099 Um, but the 80 20 rule applies to this too, where you'll see that, you know, 360 00:19:43,159 --> 00:19:46,999 it is 20% of your influencers that end up driving 80% of the results. 361 00:19:47,429 --> 00:19:51,839 What I would, you know, we like to use kind of a funnel system where 362 00:19:51,939 --> 00:19:57,639 we'll be, we'll use gifted campaigns or less expensive collaborations. 363 00:19:58,219 --> 00:20:02,599 To see to almost, you know, test the waters with influencers in the sense 364 00:20:02,599 --> 00:20:05,839 that, you know, does their, will their audience really find this, you know, 365 00:20:05,839 --> 00:20:08,849 we like them, we think they're a great fit, they're on brand, you know, love 366 00:20:08,869 --> 00:20:12,709 the style of their content, you know, and the, the last part of that equation 367 00:20:12,709 --> 00:20:14,219 is, will their audience resonate? 368 00:20:14,629 --> 00:20:22,219 And, you know, we like to take multiple smaller bets up front. 369 00:20:22,654 --> 00:20:25,624 And then start to double down as you understand what, you 370 00:20:25,624 --> 00:20:26,724 know, what really resonates. 371 00:20:26,744 --> 00:20:28,244 Is it a style of content? 372 00:20:28,284 --> 00:20:28,764 Okay. 373 00:20:28,764 --> 00:20:32,764 Is it a certain, you know, caption, hashtag, CTA that's getting the reach? 374 00:20:33,244 --> 00:20:35,244 Uh, or click through that you're looking for? 375 00:20:35,244 --> 00:20:36,314 Let's double down there. 376 00:20:36,664 --> 00:20:39,954 Uh, or is it, no, it's, it's the audience and we found an audience. 377 00:20:39,964 --> 00:20:43,204 So now we need to go find influencers that, that speak to a similar 378 00:20:43,204 --> 00:20:44,604 audience and you take that path. 379 00:20:44,604 --> 00:20:47,714 So there's, there's three different reasons that we observe. 380 00:20:47,924 --> 00:20:49,584 That make a successful campaign. 381 00:20:49,584 --> 00:20:52,584 One is the content itself, which could include the visuals, the 382 00:20:52,584 --> 00:20:55,504 video, captions, hashtags, CTAs. 383 00:20:56,934 --> 00:20:59,194 The other is the influencer themselves 384 00:21:00,339 --> 00:21:00,679 yeah, 385 00:21:00,854 --> 00:21:03,544 you know, speak to a brand, how people resonate with them. 386 00:21:03,574 --> 00:21:06,374 And then third is the audience of the influencers. 387 00:21:06,744 --> 00:21:10,144 And yes, the two, the latter two are definitely. 388 00:21:10,484 --> 00:21:12,954 Correlated, but there is a distinction between the two. 389 00:21:12,954 --> 00:21:17,114 You can have different influencers who speak to a similar audience. 390 00:21:17,659 --> 00:21:19,732 yeah, yeah, yeah, that's very true. 391 00:21:19,732 --> 00:21:23,339 And I, that's very, very helpful. 392 00:21:25,919 --> 00:21:29,659 So, one of the things again we talked about in SubSummit was scaling with 393 00:21:29,659 --> 00:21:32,059 your top 20 30% of influencers. 394 00:21:32,079 --> 00:21:35,649 So, you do your lot of smaller bets, you're figuring stuff out, what's 395 00:21:35,649 --> 00:21:38,929 working, what's the audience, you know, your, your, what content's working, what 396 00:21:38,929 --> 00:21:41,949 influencers are working, what audiences are working, you start to figure that out. 397 00:21:42,609 --> 00:21:47,029 And then you scale that, don't you, you sort of push those, um, you, 398 00:21:47,189 --> 00:21:50,439 you push those sort of areas as far as you can take them, I suppose. 399 00:21:51,954 --> 00:21:52,704 Yeah, exactly. 400 00:21:52,704 --> 00:21:55,834 And, and, you know, there you'd be surprised where these results come from. 401 00:21:55,834 --> 00:22:00,614 We're, we're working with a billion dollar brand right now in the beauty space and 402 00:22:00,614 --> 00:22:05,944 their best performing influencer who is driving sales has 3, 500 followers. 403 00:22:08,859 --> 00:22:09,379 How does that 404 00:22:09,379 --> 00:22:10,179 even work? 405 00:22:11,814 --> 00:22:15,204 you know, I, I, I think they're just trusted individuals. 406 00:22:15,334 --> 00:22:19,464 I think that, you know, those followers that they've cultivated really, 407 00:22:19,464 --> 00:22:20,664 really believe what they're saying 408 00:22:22,584 --> 00:22:26,404 That's really impressive, yeah, so that's an important point because it's 409 00:22:26,414 --> 00:22:30,484 not about the size of the Instagram followers, is it, on the account, it's, 410 00:22:30,484 --> 00:22:31,684 there's a whole lot more to it than that. 411 00:22:32,134 --> 00:22:34,984 But is that billion dollar brand who's using that influence, just three and a 412 00:22:34,984 --> 00:22:40,424 half thousand followers, is, is he or she, I'm not going to presume, I know 413 00:22:40,424 --> 00:22:46,134 what gender, but, um, do they promote just to their three and a half thousand 414 00:22:46,134 --> 00:22:50,929 followers, or is that brand then using The content that they create because 415 00:22:50,929 --> 00:22:54,619 it's, it's so good in like their ads. 416 00:22:54,659 --> 00:22:58,759 And is that why, you know, there's a massive scale in, in performance? 417 00:22:59,544 --> 00:23:03,554 So short answer is, is yes and no. 418 00:23:03,574 --> 00:23:06,924 So, so they are selling more organically. 419 00:23:06,924 --> 00:23:08,974 So we have this set up through running through an affiliate 420 00:23:08,974 --> 00:23:12,404 integration so we can track all the organic sales from the influencer. 421 00:23:12,849 --> 00:23:17,409 And they're leading the pack, there is no promotional spend 422 00:23:17,409 --> 00:23:21,499 coming from this brand, there is no amplification, so it is 100% organic. 423 00:23:22,179 --> 00:23:25,649 Does the brand, at the same time, also has the rights to do 424 00:23:25,649 --> 00:23:26,959 as they wish with that content? 425 00:23:26,969 --> 00:23:30,909 Turn it into an ad, put it on their social, emails, newsletters, etc.? 426 00:23:31,129 --> 00:23:34,419 Uh, we don't have visibility into that, so, so I'm just talking about 427 00:23:34,419 --> 00:23:38,739 what we are connected into, so, uh, yeah, it's, it's coming purely organic. 428 00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:42,779 Um, yeah, so you can't really, you can't always tell, uh, you can't 429 00:23:42,779 --> 00:23:44,439 always correlate size to performance. 430 00:23:46,009 --> 00:23:47,019 That's really interesting. 431 00:23:48,054 --> 00:23:49,424 As most, as most males would agree. 432 00:23:55,139 --> 00:23:56,949 Let's talk about that on a different podcast. 433 00:23:57,349 --> 00:23:57,719 Um, 434 00:23:58,384 --> 00:23:58,464 That's it. 435 00:23:58,644 --> 00:23:58,734 That's 436 00:24:02,399 --> 00:24:03,549 I dare say we'd have quite a 437 00:24:03,714 --> 00:24:04,754 my 100 hour show. 438 00:24:05,169 --> 00:24:08,869 Yeah, I love that, I love that. 439 00:24:09,459 --> 00:24:09,719 So... 440 00:24:10,649 --> 00:24:14,649 Let's, um, talk about maybe then some of the, the, the 441 00:24:14,649 --> 00:24:15,729 companies that are listening. 442 00:24:15,739 --> 00:24:17,869 Let's, let's stay, let's start with a startup, right? 443 00:24:17,869 --> 00:24:21,359 So I'm, I'm starting out, I'm selling a product online. 444 00:24:21,689 --> 00:24:25,289 Should I think about influencer marketing straight away? 445 00:24:25,289 --> 00:24:28,039 Is it something that I need a certain budget for? 446 00:24:28,349 --> 00:24:30,889 And so I think about later, should I do Facebook first 447 00:24:30,889 --> 00:24:31,969 and then influencer marketing? 448 00:24:32,139 --> 00:24:34,889 I appreciate there's no straightforward answer to this, but I'm just going 449 00:24:34,889 --> 00:24:37,919 to throw that out there, um, and, and let you have your opinion. 450 00:24:38,654 --> 00:24:43,474 Yeah, you know, and, and we've had a chance to, to learn truthfully 451 00:24:43,474 --> 00:24:44,394 the hard way through this. 452 00:24:44,584 --> 00:24:48,944 If you're launching a new brand, what we would say from an influencer marketing 453 00:24:48,944 --> 00:24:53,954 space is, you know, the budget that you need does not need to be astronomical, but 454 00:24:53,974 --> 00:24:59,674 it definitely should, you should prepare to, to, to instigate a fair transaction. 455 00:24:59,674 --> 00:25:05,009 By that I mean, Typically, one of the fair, you know, the most common approach 456 00:25:05,009 --> 00:25:09,989 would be to align the size of their following and engagement with what we're 457 00:25:09,989 --> 00:25:13,579 offering them, whether it's a combination of cash and product or just product. 458 00:25:13,619 --> 00:25:17,239 So, for example, an influencer with 10, 000 followers is typically 459 00:25:17,239 --> 00:25:19,719 getting paid 150 to 200 a post. 460 00:25:20,109 --> 00:25:22,649 So, if we're going to target those influencers and ask them to 461 00:25:22,649 --> 00:25:25,929 collaborate, make sure we're sending that influencer at least enough 462 00:25:25,989 --> 00:25:27,979 product that covers that retail value. 463 00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:31,349 Um, before you get started... 464 00:25:31,764 --> 00:25:37,254 Our team at CreatorCo will always look at a brand's website, a brand's social media. 465 00:25:37,604 --> 00:25:43,674 The truth is, is, and, and, in my opinion, most, most marketers and full serve 466 00:25:43,674 --> 00:25:47,954 agencies are probably doing the same and hopefully giving the same, same advice. 467 00:25:47,994 --> 00:25:53,474 But when you start spending on marketing, whether that's influencers or programmatic 468 00:25:53,474 --> 00:25:57,404 or PR or whatever, you want to give yourself the best chance of success. 469 00:25:57,684 --> 00:26:00,664 And what I mean by that is... 470 00:26:01,439 --> 00:26:03,329 The ad creative can be phenomenal. 471 00:26:03,389 --> 00:26:05,169 It can be targeting the perfect audience. 472 00:26:05,179 --> 00:26:07,109 You can be getting fantastic click through. 473 00:26:07,549 --> 00:26:12,609 Um, but if, you know, if that ad leads to a website that's subpar or 474 00:26:12,619 --> 00:26:17,199 has no reviews or has no UGC user generated content and people can't see 475 00:26:17,199 --> 00:26:21,809 other people using it, it's going to sacrifice conversion rate significantly, 476 00:26:21,839 --> 00:26:25,889 probably by, you know, probably by half, um, if it's not optimized. 477 00:26:25,919 --> 00:26:28,559 And that's the thing with influencer marketing. 478 00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:32,524 If you think of the path to purchase with An influencer, they post on social 479 00:26:32,524 --> 00:26:35,084 media, the first thing a consumer does... 480 00:26:35,499 --> 00:26:40,089 is they go to the Instagram or the TikTok of that said brand and then 481 00:26:40,089 --> 00:26:43,759 from there to the website and to the website to convert unless their 482 00:26:43,759 --> 00:26:46,979 Instagram is shoppable, in which case that's being more and more adopted. 483 00:26:48,069 --> 00:26:51,519 But when you think of the path to purchase, it's not just influence 484 00:26:51,519 --> 00:26:53,469 or buy right here and away you go. 485 00:26:53,689 --> 00:26:56,289 You are going to the brand to discover more. 486 00:26:56,479 --> 00:26:59,379 Especially if you're on that, you know, let's call it 29. 487 00:26:59,379 --> 00:27:04,579 99 price point, I would say sub 29 is impulse and you have a better chance 488 00:27:04,579 --> 00:27:06,589 of a quick in the moment purchase. 489 00:27:07,049 --> 00:27:10,689 But over 30, especially in today's economy, I think 490 00:27:10,699 --> 00:27:13,989 customers are, you know, great. 491 00:27:13,999 --> 00:27:18,129 They're getting exposed to the brand through an ad or an influencer. 492 00:27:18,129 --> 00:27:22,859 But they're not, uh, you know, if you're not set up to complete that 493 00:27:22,859 --> 00:27:27,569 path to purchase and to have a strong landing page, Then I think 494 00:27:27,599 --> 00:27:28,869 you're, you're wasting dollars. 495 00:27:28,869 --> 00:27:31,489 So for brands, I would say, make sure your website is in order. 496 00:27:31,489 --> 00:27:34,649 Make sure your social media is at least groomed well. 497 00:27:34,909 --> 00:27:37,569 It doesn't have to have hundreds of photos, but it does need to 498 00:27:37,569 --> 00:27:39,179 show you're off to a good start. 499 00:27:39,579 --> 00:27:43,609 Um, and then start with gifted campaigns and roll slowly. 500 00:27:43,619 --> 00:27:49,629 There's not, you know, what, what we've found is you lose leverage if 501 00:27:49,639 --> 00:27:52,319 that's your first influencer campaign. 502 00:27:52,329 --> 00:27:55,099 And, and what I mean by that is the influencer knows. 503 00:27:55,579 --> 00:27:58,799 They are the value in the equation here, and they hold all the leverage. 504 00:27:59,429 --> 00:28:03,199 Versus if an influencer sees that you collaborated with, okay, 10 or 15 505 00:28:03,259 --> 00:28:07,429 other influencers, they're more likely to know that, you know, to have faith 506 00:28:07,449 --> 00:28:10,499 that you know what you're doing, you've worked with other influencers, you 507 00:28:10,499 --> 00:28:14,559 know, they're not risking as much with their name, uh, associated with it, 508 00:28:14,599 --> 00:28:17,819 knowing that other influencers are, are collaborating with them as well. 509 00:28:17,819 --> 00:28:21,199 So, um, yeah, making sure your social media, your website. 510 00:28:21,644 --> 00:28:26,064 Um, is appealing to the audience and that will also help you attract 511 00:28:26,064 --> 00:28:27,564 more influencers at the same time. 512 00:28:28,004 --> 00:28:29,424 yeah, no, there's great stuff. 513 00:28:29,764 --> 00:28:32,694 Just explain what you mean by gifted campaigns for those that might not know. 514 00:28:33,464 --> 00:28:37,474 Yeah, gifted, so product in exchange for, for posts or, or content. 515 00:28:38,354 --> 00:28:39,604 Okay, So it's as simple as that. 516 00:28:40,234 --> 00:28:42,574 no, monetary, no, no fiat exchange. 517 00:28:42,634 --> 00:28:43,914 Um, just, yeah, gifts. 518 00:28:44,224 --> 00:28:47,714 I'll give you, uh, you know, a swag bundle or, or, you know, our, our new. 519 00:28:48,504 --> 00:28:52,314 Shoes, our new, you know, our new chocolate bars, you know, 520 00:28:52,394 --> 00:28:54,274 a whole lot built in exchange. 521 00:28:54,274 --> 00:28:57,234 We'd love for you to, uh, to talk about it with your audience if you like. 522 00:28:58,644 --> 00:29:01,464 And that's a good place to start, isn't it, with the gifted campaigns, 523 00:29:01,464 --> 00:29:04,184 because there are plenty of influencers out there that are also trying to 524 00:29:04,184 --> 00:29:07,244 get started on the influencer journey 525 00:29:07,244 --> 00:29:07,324 Yeah, 526 00:29:07,324 --> 00:29:07,654 aren't they? 527 00:29:08,324 --> 00:29:09,654 And that kind of thing works quite well. 528 00:29:09,664 --> 00:29:11,774 Right, going back again to the symbiotic relationship. 529 00:29:12,464 --> 00:29:14,354 Um, and they'll help you grow. 530 00:29:14,354 --> 00:29:18,264 You help them grow and together you'll, you'll hopefully figure something out. 531 00:29:18,934 --> 00:29:23,224 What sort of, um, so we've got to start, you know, if I'm starting 532 00:29:23,224 --> 00:29:24,754 up, I can, I can understand that. 533 00:29:24,924 --> 00:29:28,244 Uh, I can try that and I can allocate some kind of budget 534 00:29:28,254 --> 00:29:29,734 towards influencer marketing. 535 00:29:30,314 --> 00:29:33,304 Realistically, what do I need to be thinking about? 536 00:29:33,354 --> 00:29:37,324 Even, I mean, even with gifted campaigns, I still need to be thinking about 537 00:29:37,324 --> 00:29:39,074 some kind of value, don't I, to that. 538 00:29:40,289 --> 00:29:45,299 Yeah, uh, so there's a few ways that you can do it. 539 00:29:46,319 --> 00:29:50,469 One, I mean, obviously everybody loves cash, so that would be, 540 00:29:50,509 --> 00:29:51,949 you know, the first and foremost. 541 00:29:51,949 --> 00:29:56,089 I think the other way is also bringing them in to become an ambassador for you. 542 00:29:56,089 --> 00:30:00,669 So if you, if they really align with your values, and I always use that 543 00:30:00,669 --> 00:30:04,289 before I say this, before I would recommend anyone bringing them in 544 00:30:04,379 --> 00:30:06,349 to, you know, your brand family. 545 00:30:06,819 --> 00:30:09,479 Um, but if they align with your values, you know, inviting them 546 00:30:09,529 --> 00:30:12,559 to be part of an ambassador program where they can now have. 547 00:30:12,969 --> 00:30:16,539 A piece of what they're driving for you, that's another way 548 00:30:16,539 --> 00:30:17,979 that you can compensate them. 549 00:30:18,339 --> 00:30:20,869 Um, and you know, it's, it's on performance. 550 00:30:20,869 --> 00:30:25,309 So for the brand, you know, you understand that you're gonna, you have a CPA anyways. 551 00:30:25,709 --> 00:30:29,969 Um, does it make sense to, to give a little bit more to an influencer 552 00:30:29,979 --> 00:30:32,659 who can not only drive conversion, but you'll get, be getting content. 553 00:30:32,659 --> 00:30:33,669 There's a trust factor. 554 00:30:34,049 --> 00:30:37,579 There's a whole other, uh, there's a whole other slew of benefits that come 555 00:30:37,579 --> 00:30:39,319 with an influencer versus just an app. 556 00:30:40,019 --> 00:30:46,974 Um, so yeah, cash, gifts, um, Exclusive events, you know, influencers love to 557 00:30:47,324 --> 00:30:51,974 be able to experience things that, that us normal folk can't or don't have that. 558 00:30:52,639 --> 00:30:52,649 hmm. 559 00:30:52,659 --> 00:30:52,969 Sure. 560 00:30:54,534 --> 00:30:59,604 So, yeah, you know, exclusive events, cash, gifts, ambassador programs, 561 00:30:59,604 --> 00:31:03,754 those are probably the most common ways to, to reward your influencers. 562 00:31:04,344 --> 00:31:08,494 Um, and then making them feel valued in, in ways that, you know. 563 00:31:09,809 --> 00:31:12,809 They might not be used to with other brands, you know, if brands are just 564 00:31:12,809 --> 00:31:16,689 giving them cash and product, well, how do you make them feel special? 565 00:31:17,049 --> 00:31:20,849 Even inviting them to, you know, a founder's webinar to understand, you 566 00:31:20,849 --> 00:31:24,429 know, what the, what the direction of the company is getting, you know, do they want 567 00:31:24,429 --> 00:31:28,579 to come to a, a share, like, you know, if it's a larger company and there's a 568 00:31:28,579 --> 00:31:32,819 lot of shareholders inviting the, the influencers to participate in those. 569 00:31:33,114 --> 00:31:38,354 larger meetings or those, uh, town halls, um, and really making them feel, you know, 570 00:31:38,394 --> 00:31:43,314 embracing them, making them feel part of the brand is, is a way you can give them 571 00:31:43,364 --> 00:31:46,124 kind of that extrinsic value, I guess. 572 00:31:47,199 --> 00:31:48,069 It's a great idea. 573 00:31:48,179 --> 00:31:52,699 And that way, so when you talk about doing events, um, we don't necessarily 574 00:31:52,729 --> 00:31:55,319 need to go and run a hotel in New York and bring everybody over. 575 00:31:55,319 --> 00:31:59,039 You're actually just a founder's webinar is, is, is, is a good idea. 576 00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:00,209 You can do this, you know. 577 00:32:01,034 --> 00:32:04,854 how it started, you know, asking for their feedback, asking for their opinion. 578 00:32:04,894 --> 00:32:08,134 You know, if there's, if there's one thing I've learned over the years 579 00:32:08,134 --> 00:32:10,984 is how to get someone to lean in on something is ask their opinion. 580 00:32:11,584 --> 00:32:16,974 Uh, they, you know, people, you know, will influencers included will, will really 581 00:32:16,974 --> 00:32:19,084 lean in and tell you what they think. 582 00:32:19,084 --> 00:32:24,584 And if you're truly listening, you can probably pick up a way to, to, to nurture 583 00:32:24,584 --> 00:32:25,994 that relationship for the long run. 584 00:32:26,594 --> 00:32:28,234 yeah, no, fair play, fair play. 585 00:32:28,994 --> 00:32:34,454 What sort of, um, products work well with influencer marketing? 586 00:32:34,994 --> 00:32:38,914 In one hand I can, I've seen influencer marketing work well for clothing, 587 00:32:38,924 --> 00:32:43,584 or supplement brands, but can you get influencer marketing to work 588 00:32:43,584 --> 00:32:48,164 well for, I don't know, a couch? 589 00:32:48,624 --> 00:32:51,624 Do you know what I mean, it's, it's, um, what, what, what do you see there? 590 00:32:52,334 --> 00:32:52,734 Yeah. 591 00:32:52,764 --> 00:32:56,854 Ikea does a ton of influencer marketing, a lot of furniture companies, you 592 00:32:56,854 --> 00:33:02,024 know, with, with that type of, so the brands that perform well with 593 00:33:02,024 --> 00:33:05,844 influencer marketing are, are, are definitely, you know, in the CPG space. 594 00:33:06,394 --> 00:33:11,304 We do really well with health and wellness, food and beverage, uh, fashion. 595 00:33:11,434 --> 00:33:13,264 Pets is a big emerging category. 596 00:33:13,264 --> 00:33:16,704 You don't need to necessarily pay the pets, so there's a big advantage there. 597 00:33:18,544 --> 00:33:20,434 Yeah, Pets Beauty is another one. 598 00:33:20,444 --> 00:33:24,224 Lots of beauty brands emerging that, that have fantastic products and, 599 00:33:24,234 --> 00:33:27,084 and they're trending in the direction consumers want to go in terms of. 600 00:33:27,524 --> 00:33:31,044 B Corp certified or PETA certified, you know, cruelty free and, 601 00:33:31,584 --> 00:33:33,564 um, all organic, that stuff. 602 00:33:33,564 --> 00:33:36,614 So, brands like that do really, really well on social media. 603 00:33:37,654 --> 00:33:41,514 Think demonstrable, I guess, so the more demonstrable they are, typically 604 00:33:41,514 --> 00:33:43,434 they do well with influencer content. 605 00:33:44,884 --> 00:33:48,964 There are tons of brands like Article and Ikea, that, Article's 606 00:33:49,134 --> 00:33:49,974 a furniture store, of Europe. 607 00:33:52,214 --> 00:33:56,644 I, that does furniture restoration, like, pardon me, I can't remember the name, 608 00:33:57,034 --> 00:34:03,484 but there was a big case study where they had a 387% ROAS by having in, you know, 609 00:34:03,514 --> 00:34:08,424 influencers, um, talk about the, you know, these, it's basically a secondary 610 00:34:08,424 --> 00:34:10,184 marketplace for refurbished furniture. 611 00:34:10,704 --> 00:34:14,664 And that campaign I think generated over a million dollars 612 00:34:14,664 --> 00:34:16,214 and it was a gifted campaign. 613 00:34:16,644 --> 00:34:19,264 Uh, but what they found was the influencers. 614 00:34:19,744 --> 00:34:23,474 You know, we're truly aligned with that thrifting lifestyle, and they were, you 615 00:34:23,474 --> 00:34:25,094 know, they were passionate about it. 616 00:34:25,094 --> 00:34:27,874 They were, you know, they were really on board with that 617 00:34:27,884 --> 00:34:30,054 movement, um, and it worked great. 618 00:34:30,054 --> 00:34:33,854 What I would say is it's probably difficult to scale a campaign with 619 00:34:33,884 --> 00:34:37,504 couches, understanding the logistics involved to getting somebody a couch, or 620 00:34:37,504 --> 00:34:41,629 the prices involved, and, you know, the pricing's one thing, because you just You 621 00:34:41,629 --> 00:34:45,299 can find larger influencers to warrant, you know, who have the reach to warrant 622 00:34:45,299 --> 00:34:49,559 that gift, um, but the logistics, so it's probably a little bit slower and a little 623 00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:54,519 bit more difficult to do, but I would, you know, where I would, for, for a brand 624 00:34:54,519 --> 00:34:59,559 like that, that's probably also getting a lot of their awareness and click through, 625 00:34:59,829 --> 00:35:04,489 uh, through different articles, through PR publications and probably some paid 626 00:35:04,499 --> 00:35:09,009 ads as well, leveraging the influencer for their organic content or working with 627 00:35:09,009 --> 00:35:11,489 the influencer for their organic content. 628 00:35:12,544 --> 00:35:16,934 Um, is one thing, but then leveraging that content through the different 629 00:35:16,944 --> 00:35:22,334 funnels, uh, in, uh, in marketing, that's where you can really start to take 630 00:35:22,334 --> 00:35:25,974 advantage of the ROI because typically you'll find that that influencer's 631 00:35:26,004 --> 00:35:28,964 content will drive better click through, will drive better engagement, 632 00:35:28,984 --> 00:35:29,564 Um, um, um, um, 633 00:35:29,794 --> 00:35:31,484 uh, and ultimately better conversion. 634 00:35:31,484 --> 00:35:37,044 So it's, it's the effect of, of that content being used multiple times 635 00:35:37,534 --> 00:35:42,719 and how consumers When, you know, if they relate or if they know who that 636 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:47,999 influencer is, that, that automatically kind of drops a bit of that trust 637 00:35:48,009 --> 00:35:49,379 barrier that's inherently there. 638 00:35:49,844 --> 00:35:50,264 yeah. 639 00:35:50,874 --> 00:35:53,834 One of the things that as you're talking, one of the things that I'm thinking, 640 00:35:53,924 --> 00:35:58,244 you know, it is, is, um, I, a little known fact, I mean, I have talked 641 00:35:58,244 --> 00:36:01,704 about this on EP before, but one of the things that I like to do, in fact, I 642 00:36:01,704 --> 00:36:04,854 was doing this very thing this morning. 643 00:36:05,124 --> 00:36:06,624 I was in my wood workshop 644 00:36:07,524 --> 00:36:09,394 and I, I just love to do wood. 645 00:36:09,394 --> 00:36:10,534 I just love to make furniture. 646 00:36:10,654 --> 00:36:13,344 Um, uh, usually I had a scrap wood, but sometimes I had a 647 00:36:13,344 --> 00:36:14,604 really nice expensive wood. 648 00:36:16,124 --> 00:36:21,594 I'm thinking about a lot of the tools that I own, um, or have purchased recently, 649 00:36:21,674 --> 00:36:26,894 I've purchased because I have seen somebody use them on a video which tells 650 00:36:26,894 --> 00:36:29,564 me how to do what I want to do, right? 651 00:36:29,964 --> 00:36:33,564 So it's not just people that I follow on Instagram going, Hey, buy this, you 652 00:36:33,564 --> 00:36:35,674 know, because it's a really cool tool. 653 00:36:36,154 --> 00:36:40,744 Um, What works really well is to see that in context. 654 00:36:40,924 --> 00:36:41,514 Do you see what I mean? 655 00:36:41,514 --> 00:36:44,564 And so I go and I get inspired by the projects and think, Oh, that 656 00:36:44,564 --> 00:36:48,104 tool is going to help me do that particular type of joinery or whatever. 657 00:36:48,534 --> 00:36:50,964 Therefore, I will go and find a way to buy that. 658 00:36:51,064 --> 00:36:58,339 And, um, That is a, is a combination, uh, where there is some kind of instruction 659 00:36:58,339 --> 00:37:02,169 or some kind of inspirational content, some kind of how to around it, um, 660 00:37:02,879 --> 00:37:07,479 like with beauty products, like how to do this particular style of makeup. 661 00:37:07,829 --> 00:37:11,829 And here's the one that I, do you know what I mean, this, have you found that 662 00:37:11,829 --> 00:37:14,909 when you mix things like that, I know this is getting a bit granular now, isn't it, 663 00:37:14,909 --> 00:37:19,689 but do you find that mixing things like with the how to, um, and the product. 664 00:37:21,064 --> 00:37:24,444 Creates a much better outcome than just showing the product, or is it 665 00:37:24,444 --> 00:37:26,264 just woodworkers are a bit weird? 666 00:37:27,519 --> 00:37:33,399 No, I think the how to always performs, I won't say always, but typically performs 667 00:37:33,399 --> 00:37:35,249 better, especially mid to lower funnel. 668 00:37:35,639 --> 00:37:39,149 I think there's a place for that awareness play, right? 669 00:37:41,784 --> 00:37:44,764 If they don't, you know, they might not even know they're interested until that 670 00:37:44,764 --> 00:37:49,994 awareness play exists, but I think the how to is proof in the pudding, um, so yeah, 671 00:37:49,994 --> 00:37:53,914 the how to content, you know, especially when you're working with things that are 672 00:37:54,154 --> 00:37:59,454 of utility, like tools, uh, you know, one could argue even makeup fits in that 673 00:37:59,454 --> 00:38:04,964 category as well, um, that, yeah, anytime you can show the how to, that's going to 674 00:38:04,964 --> 00:38:09,014 be a lot more powerful, and if brands, you know, Typically, an influencer will 675 00:38:09,054 --> 00:38:12,424 ask for a little bit more, knowing that the video might be longer, need to be 676 00:38:12,424 --> 00:38:14,474 more polished, and things like that. 677 00:38:14,474 --> 00:38:16,684 But yeah, definitely, definitely performs better when you can 678 00:38:16,684 --> 00:38:18,184 do a how to or a tutorial. 679 00:38:18,534 --> 00:38:22,684 Um, and it comes off a little bit more, um, organic, I would 680 00:38:22,684 --> 00:38:24,284 say, from a consumer basing. 681 00:38:24,284 --> 00:38:29,454 An example would be from, like, a cooking brand, like, um, oh my god, 682 00:38:29,504 --> 00:38:32,104 I'm drawing all the blanks on the big case studies that I usually 683 00:38:32,104 --> 00:38:33,104 have at the tip of my tongue. 684 00:38:33,844 --> 00:38:34,004 hmm. 685 00:38:34,509 --> 00:38:39,669 Big cooking brands would give kitchenware, you know, pots, pans, kitchen 686 00:38:39,669 --> 00:38:42,389 utensils, cooking utensils to chefs. 687 00:38:42,659 --> 00:38:48,349 Well, you know, the feature of the chef's content is always the food. 688 00:38:48,349 --> 00:38:52,159 Like the recipe, the food, you know, baking, all of that stuff. 689 00:38:53,219 --> 00:38:57,589 But they're building that fabulous finished product or 690 00:38:57,589 --> 00:39:00,069 meal using the tools from this. 691 00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:03,119 So they're, they're doing those subtle drops of, of. 692 00:39:03,644 --> 00:39:07,754 You know, hey, I'm a chef, I make fantastic food, and this is the brand that 693 00:39:07,754 --> 00:39:09,604 I trust in my kitchen when I'm cooking. 694 00:39:10,764 --> 00:39:13,224 Yeah, Hexclad have done that with Gordon Ramsay, haven't they? 695 00:39:13,674 --> 00:39:15,584 The the pans Gordon Ramsay used. 696 00:39:16,099 --> 00:39:18,229 And he just says, Oh, these pans are brilliant. 697 00:39:18,229 --> 00:39:20,189 And then you'll see him cooking the most amazing food. 698 00:39:20,189 --> 00:39:20,779 And you think, well, 699 00:39:20,844 --> 00:39:21,104 yeah, 700 00:39:21,729 --> 00:39:23,579 if I get those pans, I can cook that. 701 00:39:23,589 --> 00:39:24,479 Not realizing, 702 00:39:24,924 --> 00:39:25,184 yeah, 703 00:39:27,209 --> 00:39:31,019 because what you're not buying with the pans is his 30, 40 years experience. 704 00:39:31,019 --> 00:39:33,099 You're just not, it's just not, it's not coming with them. 705 00:39:33,099 --> 00:39:33,509 I'm sorry. 706 00:39:34,139 --> 00:39:36,789 Uh, you're still going to be a crap cook, even though you've got 707 00:39:36,799 --> 00:39:37,969 the best pans in the world, right? 708 00:39:38,439 --> 00:39:39,279 But I get what you mean. 709 00:39:39,279 --> 00:39:40,289 And I think that. 710 00:39:40,689 --> 00:39:44,099 Uh, that's interesting, isn't it, because your product becomes slightly more 711 00:39:44,109 --> 00:39:48,109 background, but there's a, there's a definite association with something there, 712 00:39:48,659 --> 00:39:52,689 um, which again is that, you know, it's all, is it on Netflix now, the whole, 713 00:39:52,789 --> 00:39:57,159 uh, Air Jordan thing, uh, you know, with Nike and, and that kind of thing. 714 00:39:57,159 --> 00:40:02,469 So, uh, that kind of story, isn't it really, um, and again, I, I assume 715 00:40:02,469 --> 00:40:05,169 an influencer marketing that has its place, uh, and there are different 716 00:40:05,169 --> 00:40:07,919 levels, I guess, of, of, like you say, top of the funnel, middle of 717 00:40:07,919 --> 00:40:08,809 the funnel, bottom of the funnel. 718 00:40:10,934 --> 00:40:12,494 Where do you think the industry is going? 719 00:40:12,624 --> 00:40:16,124 But where do you think, uh, influence and marketing's, cause it seems to 720 00:40:16,134 --> 00:40:20,664 have come of an age in the sense that it seems a lot more established. 721 00:40:20,724 --> 00:40:23,084 We kind of know the rules a lot better. 722 00:40:23,654 --> 00:40:26,994 And there's companies like yourself now, which have, you know, great companies 723 00:40:26,994 --> 00:40:30,504 in the middle of this, making the whole thing a lot easier, adding a little 724 00:40:30,504 --> 00:40:34,854 bit of sensibility to what was, you know, uh, free for all at one point. 725 00:40:35,454 --> 00:40:38,154 Um, but where do you, where do you see it all going? 726 00:40:39,664 --> 00:40:43,134 I, I would sum it up like this. 727 00:40:43,164 --> 00:40:48,104 I think that creators are more and more becoming their own storefront. 728 00:40:48,764 --> 00:40:53,534 And I think companies like Amazon are realizing it, which is why 729 00:40:53,534 --> 00:40:56,734 they've set up specific influencer storefronts on their platform. 730 00:40:57,234 --> 00:40:57,664 Um. 731 00:40:58,059 --> 00:41:01,399 But the way I see it is, with the depreciation of ads, with the 732 00:41:01,399 --> 00:41:06,289 emergence of D2C, we already know we're significantly behind in live 733 00:41:06,289 --> 00:41:08,469 shopping, um, compared to Asia. 734 00:41:08,934 --> 00:41:09,274 Mm, 735 00:41:09,499 --> 00:41:13,939 All of the trends that we're seeing in Asia, if they hold to be true over 736 00:41:13,939 --> 00:41:21,359 here, um, and I think it's just a matter of time, I think that influencers 737 00:41:21,409 --> 00:41:23,739 will eventually start to understand. 738 00:41:23,739 --> 00:41:30,209 I own the, the, the, the DTC space and I feel like people will be looking at 739 00:41:30,209 --> 00:41:36,949 certain influencers as almost storefronts, um, what are the products that they use, 740 00:41:36,949 --> 00:41:40,879 they recommend, they stand behind, you know, their vetted products, there's 741 00:41:40,879 --> 00:41:44,179 a trust factor there, the influencer's entertaining for a number of other 742 00:41:44,179 --> 00:41:49,869 reasons potentially, um, and it's just more dynamic of a brand, of a, of a 743 00:41:50,089 --> 00:41:53,419 way to shop and, and, and probably. 744 00:41:53,924 --> 00:41:59,754 Um, a little bit more personalized in the sense that, you know, buying online 745 00:41:59,814 --> 00:42:04,574 from a brand is one thing and it can make you feel some sort of way, but 746 00:42:05,024 --> 00:42:09,274 when you're buying from an influencer who's connected to the brand, who's 747 00:42:09,274 --> 00:42:13,034 used the product, who, you know, might be compared, you know, you might roll 748 00:42:13,164 --> 00:42:17,444 into an influencer storefront and they might have, you know, Bose, Beats. 749 00:42:17,899 --> 00:42:22,799 Sony and some other headphone brand that they all recommend and they're different 750 00:42:22,799 --> 00:42:24,419 price points, but for different reasons. 751 00:42:24,449 --> 00:42:26,299 There's a huge trust factor in that, right? 752 00:42:26,299 --> 00:42:27,129 And guess what? 753 00:42:27,129 --> 00:42:31,139 If you're the customer that's spending 200 plus on headphones, then, you know, 754 00:42:31,139 --> 00:42:34,639 you're not really worried about two or three of the other reviews there. 755 00:42:34,639 --> 00:42:37,629 You're going to like, okay, this person knows what they're talking about. 756 00:42:37,629 --> 00:42:40,529 There's an assortment of products that they recommend and that's 757 00:42:40,529 --> 00:42:43,339 the one, you know, that's closest to the budget I'm looking for, 758 00:42:43,339 --> 00:42:44,639 the quality that I'm looking for. 759 00:42:45,734 --> 00:42:46,424 Buy that one. 760 00:42:46,444 --> 00:42:49,274 You know, every time you buy from like, the brands are never going to say, our 761 00:42:49,274 --> 00:42:51,114 product's okay compared to those guys. 762 00:42:51,154 --> 00:42:52,544 They're, you know, you know what I mean? 763 00:42:52,954 --> 00:42:56,984 Their brand is never going to say anything bad about themselves or necessarily 764 00:42:56,984 --> 00:42:58,494 even questionable about themselves. 765 00:42:58,494 --> 00:43:03,844 Whereas an influencer, um, hopefully they're honest and forthcoming and that 766 00:43:03,964 --> 00:43:07,364 instills a level of trust because I think consumers know that no product 767 00:43:07,364 --> 00:43:09,004 is going to be necessarily perfect. 768 00:43:09,584 --> 00:43:14,384 Mm, yeah, very, yeah, really good, really interesting stuff. 769 00:43:14,414 --> 00:43:20,864 Vinod, listen, I'm aware of time, I'm aware that, uh, you know, people have 770 00:43:21,604 --> 00:43:22,824 been probably enjoying what you're saying. 771 00:43:22,824 --> 00:43:27,204 So if they do want to find out more about Creator Co, more about you, want to 772 00:43:27,204 --> 00:43:28,584 connect, what's the best way to do that? 773 00:43:29,614 --> 00:43:31,244 Uh, visit us, www. 774 00:43:31,254 --> 00:43:31,644 creator. 775 00:43:31,844 --> 00:43:36,334 co, you can also find me on LinkedIn, Vinod Varma, um, or shoot 776 00:43:36,334 --> 00:43:37,824 me an email, vinod@creator.co co. 777 00:43:40,404 --> 00:43:43,514 How did you get that domain by the way, was that, um, was that 778 00:43:43,514 --> 00:43:46,094 something you stumbled across or was that an intentional, I had to 779 00:43:46,094 --> 00:43:48,634 go and mortgage my right kidney and buy it kind of a purchase? 780 00:43:49,274 --> 00:43:54,984 A little bit of a right kidney purchase, um, we, we thought it was, we thought 781 00:43:54,984 --> 00:43:57,044 it was, That's exactly what we needed 782 00:43:57,424 --> 00:43:57,774 Yeah. 783 00:43:58,424 --> 00:44:02,364 and, uh, and made the move to buy it and luckily we have some fantastic 784 00:44:02,364 --> 00:44:06,124 advisors on our board who actually knew the individuals who are 785 00:44:06,124 --> 00:44:10,334 brokering the domain and probably got, uh, got a favorable deal. 786 00:44:10,394 --> 00:44:11,614 So a little lucky. 787 00:44:12,284 --> 00:44:12,584 good. 788 00:44:12,954 --> 00:44:19,314 We will of course link to all of those links in our show notes, um, which will 789 00:44:19,314 --> 00:44:21,854 be available on the website or if you sign up to the email, they're going to 790 00:44:21,864 --> 00:44:24,984 be winging their way to you as always. 791 00:44:25,024 --> 00:44:28,514 But Vinod, listen, great to catch up again man, great to talk about this topic, super 792 00:44:28,514 --> 00:44:31,974 inspiring stuff and, uh, just love it. 793 00:44:31,974 --> 00:44:33,224 Love what you guys are doing at Creative Co. 794 00:44:33,884 --> 00:44:36,884 And, um, yeah, let's, uh, let's do it again soon my friend. 795 00:44:37,664 --> 00:44:38,714 Let's definitely do it again. 796 00:44:38,714 --> 00:44:39,564 I appreciate your time. 797 00:44:39,564 --> 00:44:41,124 Thank you for having me on the show. 798 00:44:41,174 --> 00:44:42,304 Appreciate you very much. 799 00:44:42,869 --> 00:44:43,609 Ah, it's been great. 800 00:44:43,729 --> 00:44:44,399 It's been great. 801 00:44:44,639 --> 00:44:46,379 What a great conversation. 802 00:44:46,399 --> 00:44:49,019 Huge thanks again to Vinod for joining me today. 803 00:44:49,279 --> 00:44:53,439 Also, a big shout out to today's show sponsor, the e commerce cohort. 804 00:44:53,809 --> 00:44:57,989 Remember to check out the free training at ecommercecycles. 805 00:44:58,669 --> 00:44:59,089 com. 806 00:44:59,449 --> 00:45:02,559 Also, be sure to follow the e commerce podcast wherever you get 807 00:45:02,559 --> 00:45:05,799 your podcasts from because we've got yet more great conversations lined 808 00:45:05,799 --> 00:45:07,789 up and I don't want you to miss. 809 00:45:08,089 --> 00:45:12,759 Any of them, not a jot, nor a tittle, as we like to say. 810 00:45:14,369 --> 00:45:18,239 And in case, by the way, no one has told you yet today, you are awesome, dear 811 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:19,889 listener, yes you are, created awesome. 812 00:45:20,189 --> 00:45:23,239 It's just a burden you have to bear, Vinod has to bear it, I've got to 813 00:45:23,249 --> 00:45:25,629 bear it, and you have got to bear it. 814 00:45:25,904 --> 00:45:26,724 As well. 815 00:45:27,054 --> 00:45:29,624 Now, the e commerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 816 00:45:29,624 --> 00:45:33,664 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 817 00:45:33,924 --> 00:45:37,604 The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Estella 818 00:45:37,604 --> 00:45:38,824 Robin, and Tanya Hutsuliak. 819 00:45:38,844 --> 00:45:41,254 Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson. 820 00:45:41,674 --> 00:45:45,204 And as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or show 821 00:45:45,284 --> 00:45:46,634 notes, head over to the website. 822 00:45:48,259 --> 00:45:48,869 ecommercepodcast. 823 00:45:49,299 --> 00:45:49,719 net. 824 00:45:49,809 --> 00:45:51,599 That's ecommercepodcast. 825 00:45:51,629 --> 00:45:54,229 net where, like I say, you can sign up for the newsletter. 826 00:45:54,669 --> 00:45:56,609 But that's it from me, that's it from Vinod. 827 00:45:56,639 --> 00:45:58,389 Thank you so much for joining us. 828 00:45:58,629 --> 00:46:01,589 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. 829 00:46:01,769 --> 00:46:02,519 We'll see you next time. 830 00:46:02,939 --> 00:46:03,379 Bye for now 831 00:46:03,429 --> 00:46:04,009 Thanks everyone. 832 00:46:04,119 --> 00:46:04,554 Thanks, Matt. 833 00:46:04,614 --> 00:46:04,864 See ya.