there are no guarantees here.

It is truly, I've gotta trust God to come up with a plan to get people in

here that are actually going to pay me so that I can cover these expenses.

Like, that's a very different feeling.

And for me, there's a lot of anxiety around it because it's, like you said,

it's two completely different worlds.

What I thought was stress in the corporate environment, just did

not compare to making those big steps in the entrepreneurial space.

What happens when you combine faith?

Innovation and purpose in the boardroom and beyond.

Hmm

Today on Seek, go create the leadership journey.

We welcome Tamara Jackson, a faith-based leadership consultant, visionary founder

of Beacon Ship and CEO of Lead Reviver.

With a background in Fortune 500 executive leadership and a Heart for Spirit-led

transformation, Tamara equips faith-driven leaders to reimagine how they lead,

give, and engage in a digital world.

hmm.

AI powered sales strategy to spirit-led decision making, this conversation

explores how deep purpose can drive real impact across industries and generations.

Tamara, welcome to Seek Go create.

Tim, thank you so much.

I'm glad to be here.

You make me sound amazing, so thank you for that intro.

You are amazing and that's why you're here.

That's what this is all about.

It's just to shine the spotlight on amazing.

And

Hmm.

I'm forward to this conversation.

I love doing the research for people because I learn things about, you

know, what their dog's name is and, you know, the important stuff

The important stuff.

So, and then you get to learn about this guy that lives in an RV and

Very cool.

That's not for me.

Not for me, no.

Part of our journey is knowing what God wants us to do

yes.

And that's what we're gonna talk about here.

Hmm.

Tamara first though, let's dive into the deep end of the pool.

Mm-hmm.

And your first question is, would you rather answer, what do you do?

Or who are you?

Who am I?

So I am the daughter of Jimmy and Deborah.

I am a child of God.

I am the dog mom to Spencer.

My pride and joy, and I am a person that is passionate about the

intersection of faith and business.

growing up, I grew up in the church.

Nine years old, I got saved.

Some people call that fire insurance.

And I'll be honest, that's part of what kind of drew me in is

like I knew based on the sermons, that's not where I wanted to go.

So I gave my life to Christ and I spent a lot of time in church.

One of the big challenges for me, Tim, though, was it sounded like in order to

say yes to ministry and serving God that that answer was behind the pulpit or

teaching Sunday school or Bible study.

And I've done all of those things.

they're important and they're meaningful, but for me.

I just knew at a very young age that business was something

that I really enjoyed.

I wasn't sure growing up, I even looked back at, you know, some of my yearbooks.

I said, either I'll go up the corporate ladder or I'll run my own business.

As you've shared, I ended up doing both, but I knew from a very early age I

wanted to operate in the business space.

And when I was growing up, I didn't really see that that was a path.

It was like they're two separate worlds.

You serve God in church on Sunday, throughout the week you

may do missionary work, all of these things that serving God.

And then you go to work, you earn money so that you can so that you can give, right?

And as I started to grow up and be exposed to different people with different

ideas, I started to see that there were other people like me that wanted to

serve God, but they wanted to do it.

By being an actress or running a nonprofit that had an impact on

children or just all the gamut, right?

And as I discovered that there were more people like me, I wanted to

create a space so that those that are coming up, whether they are young, very

young, like I was in church, or maybe they're a teenager in their twenties

or thirties, they can realize that you can serve God in a business capacity.

So that's my short answer to who is Tam?

Well, the cool thing about that answer is that you open up a lot

of doors to some other things

Yeah.

and the other things, Tamara, it's, this is like a theme that we keep seeing.

I mean, I'm even thinking back to an interview that was with Mike Bearers,

like one of our second interviews, like early on in this podcast five

plus years ago, where we talked about that tension between full-time ministry

Yeah.

marketplace.

Yeah.

and, and I cannot for the life of me understand or figure out, maybe you've got

some insight on this, it is that so many.

Achievers, leaders, whatever, as if the only or the best way that they can serve

God standing behind the pulpit, full-time ministry or jumping on a plane and go

spending time in a hut in Africa, which there's nothing wrong with any of that,

Yeah.

but why is it that we feel that tug and pull?

where's that coming from?

Because I'll go ahead and be blunt here.

It's not biblical.

Agreed.

So where is it coming from?

Because you said you had it like almost right at the time you were saved.

Like it was something in culture or

Yeah.

world

Yeah.

and for me and others that I've talked to, it's exactly what you just said.

It's the conversations that were happening in church.

because the conversations were about ministry, missionary work, things of that

nature, and there were no conversations about serving God in the marketplace.

It wasn't like a blatant, you can't do this, but because it

wasn't a topic of conversation, it just felt like it didn't fit.

there were a few people in my church, my mom was one of them who decided,

listen, I actually, appreciate and recognize the value of the marketplace.

There were not a lot of people that held that viewpoint.

And so it was, for me, it was kind of, where most of the attention is focused.

So because most of the attention was focused on, serving in a pulpit or

doing ministry related activities, it just didn't add up for me.

And I've encountered so many others that that's exactly the

problem that they're running into.

And so I think it's about having examples that are doing it,

that are being vocal about.

How they are serving God in their marketplace, arena.

And then creating a space for that to be talked about.

Like now there are churches that have, life groups and things

that center around those topics.

But when I was growing up that did not exist.

There is Sunday school and there is Wednesday Bible study.

There was no path for I wanna be a faith-based entrepreneur.

And I think if we want people to recognize that they can use their gift

skills and talents in those capacities, to your point, it's not biblical.

You know, many of the people that we read about, we study and we

admire, they were in the marketplace.

But that wasn't highlighted for my experience growing up.

And I think that's what's important.

We need to do a better job of that.

I'm doing, I guess it's a study.

I'm immersing myself in the letters of Paul, the epistles.

I'm attempting to put myself into the place of the people receiving his letters.

Hmm.

I can understand the Bible was written to.

I believe it was written for us, but I don't,

Yeah.

written to us.

Yeah.

but anyway, and you know what, Paul was very clear.

You know, I've gone through, Thessalonians and he was very clear that he was working.

Absolutely.

He was working while he was doing all these things with these churches.

I do know this in my Bible school experience and other

experience, that you just feel like this is gonna be blunt, that

It's okay.

Just send me the check.

And we appreciate you, Tim.

You've got a different mindset.

Yeah,

you are always, you're going, going, going, but church world

is a little bit different.

is different.

here's a yellow vest.

Go work out in the parking lot and report to a 21-year-old

Hmm.

guy that's in charge of the parking lot.

That's how we're gonna use your skills.

And I'm going, nah,

It's so much more.

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I don't like, but I think a lot of that's changing

It is changing.

in here,

Yeah.

so when did that start changing for you?

What was some of the things that caused the change?

Yeah.

So for me it was changed environment.

the church that I grew up in was not the church that I

ended up learning these things.

I grew up in Richmond, Virginia, small.

City area, but not as progressive as some other cities.

it turns out that God would redirect me as I got into my early thirties.

I was still in a corporate environment and I came to Charlotte, North

Carolina for a business trip.

And during that trip there was something in me that was like, man,

this is a really beautiful city.

And I started, you know, thinking about the opportunity that could

be here and before I knew it.

I packed up and I was moving to Charlotte, North Carolina, and one of the blessings

that came out of it was that I got plugged into a church, the Park Ministries

here in Charlotte, North Carolina.

And in that spaces where I started to recognize that not everyone

saw things the same way and that there were different paths that you

could take in order to serve God.

And I, I had people actually a part of that church that affirmed and said, no,

those gift skills and talents that God is giving you, we actually need those.

So we're getting ready to do a 5K and we need your project management skill.

and so.

Seeing that the skills and the talents that I had could actually

help advance ministry, like being given the opportunity to do that

is what helped it start to click.

For me.

That, listen, these don't have to be two separate worlds.

I can leverage the things that God has given me to make a

difference for the kingdom.

So this is, I think we're mature here.

We could have this conversation.

Sure.

also a few variables that kick in with this.

is at times the male female,

Yes.

and then I'm gonna ask you a little bit about the culture.

And again, this is mature conversation, you know, the culture

of the church you grew up in and then the church you moved to.

Because, I also think some of that can be baked into, I'll be blunt, white

church or African American church and things like that, even though

Yeah.

did you go to what I think we'll call a multicultural church growing up?

or did everybody look like you.

everybody.

Yeah, that's, yeah.

You, you could, you could keep it 100 with me.

Everyone looked like me in my church.

It was also relatively small Pentecostal, by denomination.

And so there were a lot of rules about what to do and what not to do.

things felt very black and white, and I'm not saying that there certainly

aren't boundaries that we need to operate within, but things were very strict.

And so the culture, was one of, you know, this is the path to holiness.

This is the path to pleasing God.

And so most of the conversation really centered around that.

So I didn't really feel as though the rest of my life outside of.

Being in church and hopefully drawing others to Christ.

there just wasn't a lot of conversation around that.

Now, when I moved to Charlotte, the Church Park Ministries is

also a predominantly black church.

However, what I found is that there was an openness for a diversity

of viewpoints of cultures.

It was non-denominational, kind of feel.

Even though it technically is a Baptist church, it wasn't pushed that, everyone

has to do this or that, and everyone has to believe this certain way.

It was more about developing a relationship with Christ, and that's what

I really took away from that experience at the Park Ministries is Tam, what's

most important is that you need to build a true relationship with God.

And what does that look like?

For you and how is God calling you to use the gifts, talents, and experiences

that you've had to bring glory to him.

And that was just a different conversation, than the one

that I experienced growing up.

The good thing about that relationship, it's, and, and I'm just almost

restating what you said, is that we're not all gonna fit into that one

thing that everybody thinks we look.

That that's when, know, I'll, I'll throw a word in here that shouldn't

be divisive, but it is diversity.

Yeah.

'cause we were all created with a uniqueness and gifts and

talents and things like that.

And I think part of our journey,

Hmm.

Is to identify what those are.

Absolutely.

in God's kingdom is say, okay, God, what?

What'd you make me for?

Because I got some issues and I know I can irritate people and can ask

questions and nobody else will ask.

I can guarantee you that, Tamara,

But we need that.

I.

Absolutely, that's what I was gonna say.

A body of Christ and scripture talks about how the different parts of

the body serve different purposes.

Right.

And so if everyone was the same, I don't know where we would be.

We wouldn't be very effective in anything.

We would all think the same way.

And how dangerous would that be?

I think there's a reason that it's a community.

There are gonna be some things that you're really great at, Tim, that I

need your insight and perspective for.

And then there are going to be some things that, based on the experiences that I've

had that I'm gonna be able to share on.

And I think that is by design.

we weren't designed to operate in this cocoon and only have people around

us that think exactly the same way, have the same experiences growing up

and have the same gifts and talents.

that just wasn't the design.

So going from Richmond to Charlotte was obviously a significant,

Yeah.

change adjustment, expansion, whatever for what you were doing.

What are some other things, a couple of 'em that we need to know about

your journey that were significant along the way that have kind led

you to the place you are now?

Yeah,

of the high points or low points.

'cause some of mine were

it's a.

that I learned more from them than I do some of the good times.

That's so true.

So I would say the next one that would be important to to highlight

here would be something that happened not long after I moved to Charlotte.

So I moved here in 2009 and I was in the process of getting my master's

degree, which consumed a lot of my time along with my corporate career.

But I started getting this pull, this tug to be able to speak to women

in particular about their health.

And that was because I had gone on this journey of figuring out how.

To make exercise a habit, how to eat healthier.

And I realized that many of the women around me also struggled with this area.

So what that looked like for me was starting a small workout and bible study

community at my church, at the Park ministries that gave the flexibility

to meet on Saturdays in the gym.

We did a brief workout and then we transitioned to Bible study

specifically talking about, wellness from a biblical perspective.

And that's when I started.

I'd, I'd say that was kind of the.

First step into how do I combine these two things?

Because that grew into a business where I was actually offering training

classes, physical fitness training classes, but we were also studying the

word of God, you know, how does God, want us to think about our temples?

So that was kind of the first four way into combining those two worlds.

It was my first step into entrepreneurship.

So I officially became an entrepreneur, entrepreneur in 2013.

and I like to say.

Tim, that that journey has been a, an up and down one.

You talked about some of the, the low experiences have been the ones

that have taught you the most.

And the same is true for me.

You know, I went into entrepreneurship as many people do, wanting to make a

difference, wanting to help people.

it wasn't really about the money, but what I quickly realized is that really sticking

to the principles of money management and being a good steward also impacted how

effective I was at running a business.

So some of the things that I took for granted in the corporate world, like.

There was a lot of things that I had the benefit of, right?

They had their own brand.

I didn't have to create my own, they had their own website.

I didn't have to figure that out.

Like there were all of these things that were kind of done for you and

baked in, and it was really about you bringing your talent to the job.

I quickly learned that as a business owner, I actually have to know

all these things myself, right?

And so there was a journey of learning and discovering and making what I like

to call a lot of expensive mistakes.

The things were starting to kind of go in the right direction.

I was starting to get, some traction and I was like, okay, I finally figured it out.

We moved into our own facility here in Charlotte, North Carolina.

this is 2019.

Summer 2019.

it was a highlight I thought of my entrepreneurial journey because I thought

this is the thing that I've always wanted to be able to have my own space to be able

to not have to worry about, you know, any rules of, you know, talking about God.

I could do that whenever I wanted.

It's my own place.

I don't have to worry about like getting on a calendar to hold our

classes like ultimate freedom.

But what I did not realize is that 2020 would bring what it did, right?

So I had signed a three year lease on a facility that I could not go in.

talk about rollercoaster moments.

I went from on top of the world June, 2019 to feeling down in the dumps.

by March when I realized.

That what I thought was a two week hiatus was actually gonna be months.

So that was definitely a valley experience for me.

Now, I could keep going.

I got so much that I can say, but I wanna take a breath there

to see if you have any thought?

so, here's what I'm going to say.

That's gonna sound harsh.

Hmm.

So Covid was your fault because you said you figured it all

I thought I did.

right after you announced to the world,

Yeah,

and everyone I have finally figured it out,

yeah,

A worldwide pandemic happens.

yeah.

I thought 2008 was like that for me.

I mean, we had real estate companies and

Mm.

we're doing pretty darn good.

I like where we're at, God, I got this.

You can go take care of somebody else.

Yeah.

So that was 2008

Mm-hmm.

I'm really joking, but

Yeah.

we're laughing at a situation that's not laughable

It's tough.

so here's what I want you to compare.

Hmm.

I think I heard you on one of your podcasts, I think on, beacon Ship.

Yes,

of it,

that's right.

I heard you talk about one of the scriptures that's important

to you, and it was in Proverbs and it was the trust in the Lord.

I can't quote scripture

Mm-hmm

Trust in the Lord.

so I want you to compare here for the next 10 seconds or 10 minutes or whatever.

is the difference?

Between trusting in the Lord when you work in a corporate setting

hmm.

versus trusting in the Lord when you are all of a sudden hanging out over

there, signing a three year list.

When a worldwide pandemic's about to happen, compare the two.

'cause sometimes people don't understand if they get a

paycheck every two weeks, they

It's very different.

and, and then sometimes we don't appreciate that level of, don't wanna

say comfort, but there's a lot going

Yeah.

So talk about those two.

'cause you've lived them both.

Yeah, no, it's night and day difference, Tim.

because there's, there's, yes, you are trusting God, at least I'll say

for me, I'm trusting God for God.

I need to be able to pull together this presentation.

I need you to go in here with me because I'm about to make this pitch

and I need you to prepare my heart.

I need you to prepare, you know, the, the executives so that

they'll be ready to receive it.

God, I need you to, to walk with me as I'm launching this project.

And so I was definitely trusting God, but I was also, as you said,

getting paid on the first and the 15th, like clockwork, right?

and so there's a difference between that and signing a lease for a building and

being responsible for making payments, whether you are operating or not.

This is, there are no guarantees here.

It is truly, I've gotta trust God to come up with a plan to get people in

here that are actually going to pay me so that I can cover these expenses.

Like, that's a very different feeling.

And for me, there's a lot of anxiety around it because it's, like you said,

it's two completely different worlds.

What I thought was stress in the corporate environment, just did

not compare to making those big steps in the entrepreneurial space.

Now, I will say for me, Tim, I like to make sure that I, am clear about this.

At that time, I was still in corporate, so I was trying to straddle, and so a lot of

people will be able to identify with me.

It's like, Hey, I wanna hold on to this corporate career.

Transparently this corporate paycheck and all the benefits that come along with it.

But I also feel like God is calling me to do something else.

And so I was trying to hold both of these things down.

some of my corporate pay was getting eaten up by this, this three

year lease that I've now signed.

I grew to know Jesus so much more and so much deeper the more that I started

to, embrace, that entrepreneurial world.

Yeah.

it can get so, complex.

Now, I grew up, when I got saved, when I say grew up, it was my late

twenties, but I was in and around what, many term Pentecostal, but it

also had a prosperity gospel flavor

mm-hmm.

it, which fed my business, greed lands.

And so I started looking at God, this is the God we've had to work through this.

Me and God started looking at him as sort of an ATM machine, that if something

got bad for me, God, you need to fix this 'cause I'm on your team now.

Yeah.

and I think sometimes that can work its way into entrepreneurship.

Did you have anything like that?

'cause you said you used the words, we often use God called you.

Yeah.

felt like that was what God wanted you to do to sign that lease

and to set up that business.

And then all of a sudden you're looking at the paper, you're

looking at everything shut down.

I'm sure you can't get together and let's all get in a group

setting and hug each other

No.

a pandemic's going on and work out together and stuff like that.

No, that's not gonna happen.

were you at any time thinking, oh, God's gonna bail me out, or, God, this

is your issue, you better handle it.

Or any, anything like that?

Yeah.

I think for me, Tim, I kind of went back and forth.

There were times where I was like, God, I need you to come through for me.

I mean, I remember distinctly going through a very specific Bible plan where

I was seeking God for rent and all the things, that I needed because I didn't

know how I was gonna cover these things.

but then there were also moments where I was like, God, did I miss something?

Like, was I really supposed to do this?

Was I really supposed to sign this lease?

and there were moments, of course, at least for me, Tim, that as I was making,

the decisions, there were moments where I was kind of like, I'm not really sure.

And so then that became, well man, maybe that was your sign.

Maybe that was your indication that you shouldn't have done this.

So I went back and forth between.

You messed this up, you made a mistake, and God, no, but I think

you did call me to this, so I need you to help me out here.

and so for me it was kind of a back and forth, but what I will say it did do

that I took away from that experience that I was not as diligent with going

into that is it took me to my knees.

It got me to a place of I need to talk to God on a regular basis about this

because I know regardless of how I got here, I know I don't have the answers.

So the only person that I think can help me in this situation is God.

Like this wasn't a call your mom and bail you out.

This wasn't a get alone.

And, all the problems are solved.

I needed God to come through for me.

And so it drew me closer to him because at least in that moment,

I recognized that I needed him.

Yeah, and, and it's interesting, I can tell that you probably from an early age

would be what we would determine what we would probably call a high achiever.

I'm guessing you probably did well in school.

Yeah.

that you organized stuff and people probably followed

you and things like that.

Yeah.

That happens sometimes.

so my observation is that sometimes we will, I don't want to

describe you as cocky or arrogant.

I could describe myself.

We kind of get to this place where, all right, God, you know what?

with you.

I'm on your team, but you could go help, those that are, trying to barely

squeeze a nickel outta their paycheck.

Yeah.

I, I'm, I've got all this, and my journey has been, and I

don't even know if I'm there yet

Hmm.

I don't want to even be so cocky to even say, but total submission, not semi

Hmm.

And that's what I heard

Yeah.

you were on the team,

Oh yeah.

you also were still, felt like you could handle some of it on your own.

Absolutely.

statement?

Absolutely.

A hundred percent right.

and for me, Tim, it was, that wasn't the end of it.

Like there was things that continued to unfold to, I believe, get me to a

place where I could recognize like.

You have nothing under control.

Like it's, it's literally unpredictable.

I think we tend to want to believe that life is predictable I trust that if I

sit down in this chair that it's gonna hold me up and I'm not gonna fall down.

So there, there are things like that that kinda lull us to a belief that

tomorrow is going to be the same as today.

But as things unfolded for me in the years that followed, 2019 was just the

beginning, it became clear, more and more like, man, like you can see the future.

You don't know what's going to happen.

And because you can't, you are vulnerable.

And so you really need to surrender to the one that does know what's

going to happen tomorrow and two years from now and 20 years from now.

So how do we know, or how have you maybe developed?

and I, and I don't, I don't think either one of us wanna present

ourselves as we have arrived and we

Oh no, absolutely not.

are you now better

Hmm.

at knowing that his plans or your plans and that your plans are his plans?

how do you connecting that better than you did say, in 2019 and 20?

Yeah.

Or, or have you learned that?

I mean, I, hope I have, but

Yeah.

how would you respond to that?

So what I would say is that I'm learning that I would not say that I

have a hundred percent figured it out.

but what I can say, Tim, is that the experiences helped to make it really

clear to me that I needed to slow down.

I needed to slow down because I would look at things and I would

assume, and I've heard others do it as well, I think it's pretty common.

Well, that's a sign that I should move in this direction, or I

should not move in that direction.

Maybe that's a block and I shouldn't move forward.

And what I have learned is that I wouldn't be so quick to assume that it's a sign.

One of the best things that I could do to really get clear on what

God wants me to do is to pause.

Like just literally give yourself the space to really process the decision

that is in front of you, to gather information about, what the options are.

what is there that's out there that can tell you a little bit more about this.

Other than just your knowledge, who else can you talk to to get more insight?

Like, I just realized that a lot of the decisions that ended up.

In retrospect, not being great decisions were, because I did not slow

down and I did not do my research.

So those are some things that are really crystal clear to me right now.

I can't say that I always get that right, Tim, but that's, those are the things

that I now try to really, really do.

Maybe I need to give myself 24 hours before I say anything about this.

And sometimes stem, sometimes people get frustrated with me because sometimes it's

not 24 hours, sometimes it's two weeks.

I know now that what I am looking for is a sense of peace.

That the path that I am going down is the path that God is calling me to.

And I have done, to, use a business term, I have done a degree of due diligence.

I think sometimes we just quickly jump to something and we don't give

ourselves the space to really slow down and think through and pray through

the decisions that we're making.

And that's what I would say that I've learned to do now, that

I would not have done in 2019.

transparently, even some of the years that followed, I would kind of pray over

what I was doing, not stop, take the decision to God should I be doing this?

Gathering the information on the options.

I just wasn't doing that.

And part of it for me, Tim, kind of goes back to the experience

that I described as a kid.

I heard people say you should pray about it.

and I knew that, but what exactly does that mean and what exactly does that

look like when I'm making a decision?

I didn't have a good reference point for that.

And so I felt like if I prayed and there wasn't this, no tam, you

shouldn't do that, then that must be a green light to move forward.

And I've learned that, that is not necessarily so.

Well, and this is, I know you mentioned kind of the culture that you grew up in,

but were there many people that were wired the way you were wired or did you look at

yourself as like going, not that you're better than them or anything like that,

but you were the one that got things done?

Yeah, I was different.

Yeah,

definitely different.

and I could sort of relate to that.

All right.

I'm, not done with that topic, but I'm gonna layer in something and I want

to ask, what would you say is or are your superpower, your superpowers?

Hmm.

and maybe I'll ask you another, what were you created for?

what did God say?

Tamara is going to be blank.

This is how we're gonna wire her.

Hmm.

So when I think about that question, Tim, I actually think

about, my experiences with others.

for a long time I didn't know the answer to that question.

I was trying to figure it out, to a degree in the business, space.

Like, okay, I'm good at a lot of different things and, and I don't know if you

know, you or anyone that's watching or listening to us can identify with that.

I'm one of those people.

I'm not a jack of all trades, but I literally know a lot about a lot of

things, don't know everything, right?

The challenge with that is.

That when you're good at a lot of things, you have a lot of options.

So then you start thinking, well, gosh, what is it that I am supposed to do?

And part of solving the answer to that came actually in the corporate space

from a manager that I was working for.

And he said, you know, Tamara, I need you to stop thinking

about a job title or a role.

I need you to focus on the things that you are good at.

And when he shared that with me, I was like.

Oh, so it's not about like getting this certain title.

It's about what am I good at and how can I deploy that for

the benefit of the business?

And that was the first time that I actually had the opportunity

to design my own role.

But it was so fun for me because for the first time I could really stop and

think about, okay, what are the things that I can bring not focus on like

this certain promotional pathway or anything like that, but what can I bring

to this business to make it better?

And that's when I started to realize, okay, the organization

and the process piece, that's just naturally how my brain works.

I know that that's not the case for everyone.

So that's something that I can bring to any space.

It doesn't matter what we're talking about.

I automatically will see.

Okay.

Here's how we can put a process in place to help move this initiative forward

and not make it this big overwhelming task that could never be completed.

I can think about how to convert that into little steps.

so that's one of the things that I am here to do.

the other piece of it is to get people ignited and excited about

what God has called them to do.

There is something, and I, it's weird to me, Tim, because I am an introvert

by nature, but over time, through different experiences, God has kind of.

Pulled out this blend.

So now I kind of vacillate between introversion and extroversion, at

least how people perceive it, right?

Because I can go into an environment and I can bring energy and I can get

people excited through speaking and training and things of that nature, and

get them to see that God is with them and they can accomplish the things that

maybe they thought they couldn't do.

So bringing those two things together for me means empowerment.

What I believe that I am here to do is to empower people to reach their goals,

and sometimes that's in a motivational, inspirational capacity, and sometimes it's

in a very practical capacity of here's the goal that we have, let's break it down

into steps, and let's make sure that you have the accountability to make sure that

you're on the path to reach that goal.

So, as I'm listening to you here, Tamara, one of the reasons I'm spinning a little

bit is that you and I, look different.

sound different, different backgrounds, different cultures, but some things

that the Lord has spoken to you.

I'm gonna share in just a little bit, we'll keep people

waiting for a second here, but

Okay.

I wanna add something and I'll pose it in the form of a question I have a

theory about, and you may either help me back this theory up or blow it up.

We'll see,

Okay.

my guess is that you are incredibly decisive

Hmm.

when you see something, if you don't know the answer, you know the direction.

Hmm.

And you're probably pretty quick and can move forward.

Thanks.

would that be correct?

In other

That would be fair.

I bet you don't sit back and go, you know, I wonder what we

should do with this organization.

let's just,

No, not by design, no.

right.

So then my, my follow up question, and this is, I'm gonna tie it back

to what you talked about earlier.

I'm gonna bring some stuff together here, and this is gonna be extremely

valuable for least one person listening, hopefully a lot more.

Hmm

The Lord spoke to me after 2008 when we went through financial collapse,

downfall, bankruptcy, homelessness,

hmm.

He said that he was going to use me in the way he created me, I needed to

pause exact words you used earlier.

And just make sure that he and I are locked arms on the same page

Get a little bit ahead of things

Oh yeah.

that I was so decisive and I know the answer and my wife will tell me.

she goes, I don't know that I dislike what you're saying.

She goes, it's your tone that bothers me.

You just sound like you know it all.

And in my mind I'm thinking I do,

Yeah.

I got it figured out.

I. So Tamara, we, I think that's part of the way we are created.

I think there are people listening in there that way too.

They're going, gosh, yeah, but why do I keep messing up?

So let's talk about how we pause because the Lord has spoken it to you and

Yep.

How, with that skill, with that superpower, how do we not allow

that superpower to be our kryptonite that is getting us all messed up?

'cause we think we can be real decisive and people follow us

because we're, look at them, man.

They're just Tamara's, just making decisions left and right.

Look how good she is at it.

Yeah.

How do we do that?

Yeah.

the word that's gonna come, up here, Tim, is intentionality.

If we just go on autopilot, I'm gonna do exactly what you just described,

and I've done it for most of my life.

I mean, that's the reality for most of my life.

I looked at something, reasoned through it, made a decision, and then prayed

that God would be with me as I execute.

Right?

that's the reality of how my natural bent is to operate.

And It is only through enough failure and expensive mistakes that God

has gotten me to a place of Tam.

I know that you have these skills and you have these abilities,

but I need you to pause.

It is only through those setbacks that I have learned it.

So now what does that look like?

For me, it means starting my day.

with prayer and, often with Bible study and I'm literally studying leaders in

the Bible and how they made decisions.

Like those are the types of things that I'm doing right now because I'm like,

I literally am at a space to where I'm having to learn how to reprogram my

brain to operate a different way, right?

So it's literally prayer bible study.

how do I make better decisions?

And I'm using ai, I'm using chat, GPT and all these great

tools to help me to do that.

But then the other piece of it is like literally, okay,

there's a decision to make.

I needed to create with God's help, a process that I needed to follow

because I am process oriented.

And it has helped me because now I see it as well.

I need to make sure that I move through these phases before I get to a point

where I say, this is the direction that I am going in as a person.

Or this is direction that we're going in as an organization and

that has been a game changer for me.

It doesn't mean that I've made perfect decisions, but it has helped me to

make, at least based on where I am in that moment, the best decision

because I have slowed down enough.

To go through the steps and the phases of that process.

So for me, that is what has worked.

I'm sure that everyone is going to be a little bit different, but because it,

for me, I see it as, okay, God knows that this is the way that I'm built.

He knows I'm very process oriented.

So he gave me something that could work with my brain in that

capacity of, okay, here's the process that you need to follow.

And as I have shared it with some other people, they were like,

oh, that makes perfect sense.

and many times people tell me, Tim, oh, I do that.

I just didn't have a name for it.

But now that you've shared it with me, now I can actually do it more consistently.

Because without a process, without steps, we can do it sometimes, and

in other times, we can push it aside.

Especially I will say for me, when I feel like I'm under pressure and I need to

do something quickly, either because of something internal that's telling me that.

Or there's external pressures, then that's when I tend to skip things because I feel

like I've gotta have an answer right now, or I've gotta have an answer tomorrow.

Right.

And I've even learned, you know, it's, again, like I shared earlier,

sometimes it's unpopular, but I will put something on ice in a heartbeat.

Now I don't have an answer.

We're going to have to wait.

And if you need to move on, because I don't have a decision for you

right now, totally understand it.

Not gonna hold it against you.

But pressure is not, to me, it, it's not an indication that that's

the direction I need to go in.

I'm looking for peace.

And so for me, now, pressure is an automatic mm. That doesn't

feel right for me because it, it just doesn't feel in alignment.

And so that's what I would say from my experience, that's the only way that

I've been able to undo, and I'm still in the process of undoing that behavior.

Yeah, there's so many things about what you just said.

There's one that really jumped out.

I'm about to get to that, but definitely intentionality.

Definitely pause, be quiet, be still.

I'm very similar.

If I don't do that first thing, my day can kind of start taking over my

energy level and things will start going out to all of the other things.

not to over pack.

I used to myself, and that's the

me too.

on multitasking.

Oh yeah,

don't think multitasking is.

I don't think we are supposed to do it.

no.

I think that's Babylonian.

I don't

Hmm.

kingdom.

That's good.

I really want to try to stay in this kingdom.

I can't find an example of where Jesus got in a hurry and he

Hmm

in a rush.

So if the most important

hmm.

That's good.

mission in the history of Earth didn't get in a rush, why does Tim

think that my little project where

That's good.

but the thing that jumped out at me about what you said Tamara, was that

you use AI for your Bible study.

I do.

been doing that a lot too.

And you know, there's some Christians listening in

Oh, they already turned us off.

They say, oh, nevermind.

Game over.

that is the mark of the beast.

And lemme, I wanna say why I am liking it and then I'm gonna

let you say a little bit more

Sure.

I have recently come to realize for most of the 30 years of my walking, attempting

to walk with the Lord and studying from teachers, preachers, pastors, and

also trying to do my own study, I have been listening to men in my situation

that were not biblically accurate.

Ooh.

And you know what?

I'm not throwing them under the bus or anything

Yeah,

I want biblical accuracy.

And you know what I could get from chat GPTI can have it with a prompt

search, the Aramaic, the Hebrew, the

Hmm.

the English versions of the Bible.

And I could have it say, I wanna know,

Hmm.

is this biblically accurate?

Is this in the Bible?

And I could remove the personality or the guy standing up on stage

that seems so, like he knows so much stuff and all of that.

I enjoy that immensely.

Oh, yes.

tell me a little bit more about your Bible

really, that's really cool.

I'm gonna take that.

that's a great tip for me.

I will tell you that as a business owner, I had been using AI since, a little bit

earlier than many people actually started using AI in 2021, and I was using it for

marketing, because I stumbled on a tool.

And I was like, oh my gosh, this puts together a really great copy and it's

saving me hours and hours of time.

So when chat GPT and all of these other platforms kind of took the center

stage, it wasn't completely foreign to me because I knew the power of it.

And I can't even remember Tim, what caused me to take this step.

But I remember, struggling with a decision that I needed to make and

I was like, man, it would be really great if there was a way that I

could have a Bible study on this.

And so what I had kind of been trained to do, which many people

may have, is to go to Google.

And I started Googling, the topic and looking for articles, and I found some

stuff and I was like, nah, I don't think this is really what I need.

And for some reason, maybe because I had been using chat GPT for so

many other things, I said, well.

Can you help me put together a Bible study on this topic and

give me some different options of biblical leaders that I could study?

And lo and behold, in a matter of seconds it spit out, okay, well

you've got this example, this example, this example, this example.

I was like, wow, I am onto something, right?

So then once I got that, I said, well, hey, can you put together a Bible study?

Give me the scripture references and give me some reflection questions

so that I can really make sure that I'm processing what I am reading.

Again, in a matter of seconds, here's your study on Moses.

Here's your, here's the scripture text.

Then I could go to my bible, my concordance, all of that

and actually do the study.

So I wasn't depending on chat GBT to give me the, the, the details.

Go do my study and then I come back and, and look at these reflection questions.

sometimes I would write my answers more often than not,

maybe 'cause of how I am built.

I would speak my answers into my voice recorder so that I would have them.

sometimes I would even share my reflections with chat GBT.

And then it would give me these amazing insights on, oh my gosh, you know,

here's what you learned from this.

And I'm like.

What This is amazing.

So it it, it's like, it's my own Bible study companion.

And what I tell people is, for me, the blessing of it is no matter

what I am up against, I can leverage it to help me, like through a

biblical lens, navigate that season.

And there's nothing against traditional bible study books and things of that

nature, but many of the ones that I've encountered at least, it, it tends to

kind of lean on the spiritual component.

And it doesn't help me with the practical of, I need to make a decision about, I've

had a blow up with someone on my team.

How do I navigate this?

Gimme an example of somebody in scripture that's had to deal with this.

I need that kind of bible study because that's the life that I'm living.

And for me, it just has been a game changer because now I feel like.

I can find help for anything that I am up against.

Not necessarily counting on it to be a hundred percent accurate all

the time because I know that that's something that comes up a lot.

But it's given me a direction to go in so that I'm not starting from a blank page.

And for me, that's tremendously valuable.

I, boy, I don't, I don't wanna go down this rabbit hole, but this

conversation fascinates me because I've been doing the same thing.

Tamara, I created a prompt.

That allowed me rank biblically accurate teachers and preachers.

Oh wow.

and I started it because I started realizing that some things I'm

studying now, some things that I thought I knew at 61 years old.

It's like, Ooh, that wasn't right.

Where did I learn that?

Oh, I learned it from him or that

Yeah.

And again, try not to throw anybody under the bus.

Right,

but so I wrote the prompt and I said, okay, if I wanted to

gauge biblical accuracy, I'm not looking for denominational,

I'm not looking for systems.

I'm not looking for dogmas.

Hmm.

looking for popularity.

Let's make a list of people.

Hmm.

And then I said, okay, how about such and such?

I put a name in and it basically tiered it for me.

Tier one, tier two, tier

Wow.

I had a lot of false teachers.

Wow.

most of my teaching has come from tier three.

My bible school that I went

Hmm

the guy that runs it, he's tier three down at there.

hmm.

Clean the clean house of some of that stuff.

Yeah.

fascinating.

And I'm doing a lot of stuff now to immerse myself into

that first century culture.

And let me tell you that chat, GPT can help with that too,

Wow.

Josephus, you can study historical accounts, and you can also say

what was going on with Paul when he was writing this letter from COR

Yeah.

And anyway, so I,

Love it.

love that.

Love it.

But want us to pause 'cause we could go down the path there.

I've heard you use the term wealth transfer

Mm-hmm.

and I gotta be honest with you, Tamara,

Yep.

know if we're that,

Yep.

well

Yeah.

connected to say, Tam.

Tamara, you've used the word wealth transfer and coming from

a prosperity gospel background,

Yeah.

term I believe has been somewhat misused.

Hmm.

then I've heard you describe it

Hmm.

So tell me more about what you talk about when you're talking about what transfer.

Yeah, so I'll be honest, Tim, and everyone that's listening, it wasn't

something that was on my radar until I personally experienced it.

one of those rollercoaster experiences was my mom being diagnosed with

stage four breast cancer in 2022.

when that happened, I made the decision to leave Charlotte, North Carolina,

move back to Richmond, Virginia and be there to take care of her.

I wanted to make sure that she had, the support to go through chemo.

She wanted to keep working.

Which is crazy to me, but, she did.

so I wanted to support her through that process.

Well, unfortunately things started to decline and then we started to have

conversations about an inheritance.

And Tim, I had never, literally never in my life, ever even bothered to think that

there was anything, because in my mind, I was remembering my experience growing up.

You know, my mom worked a really demanding job.

She worked a lot of hours.

She didn't get paid that well, and she eventually went back to school, started a

new career path, and things turned around.

But in my brain, that meant nothing for me.

But now all of a sudden we were having these conversations about.

Here's what your inheritance is gonna look like.

I was completely blindsided.

And then as I realized and started to do some real research, I realized, oh my

gosh, there are all of these boomers that are out here that, have had similar paths.

Like my mom.

They, you know, things started to come together for them financially.

They were able to save and invest.

And they are now at a point where they're having to make decisions about

what they're going to do with that.

And that's what we call the Great Wealth Transfer.

And for some people, like my mom, it's, Hey, I want to be

a blessing to my children.

For other people, it's, I want to, give at least a portion

of that to a certain charity.

For others, it's going to mean, Hey, this business that I've spent all

these years, growing and nurturing, someone needs to take it over.

Who is that next person gonna be?

Who's my successor?

So when I think about the Great Wealth Transfer, I think about all

of this influence, these investments, this income, these businesses that

are going to be changing hands over the next couple of decades.

And the question is, am I prepared?

Am I prepared to be able to steward this transfer effectively?

Hmm.

And the reason I love that, 'cause it, I, it originally I went, Ooh, well transfer.

'cause it used to be in, in some of the

Yeah.

went to is that old evil

Yeah.

have all that money.

God's going to take it from them and give it to

Yep.

but you're talking about this natural progression and it is huge.

Yeah.

$84 trillion.

so what has that been like for you?

What can you, obviously, you may not wanna give details,

Yeah.

tell me some, things that have been a blessing and some things that may

have been a little bit of a burden

Yeah.

Well, I was quite honestly ill prepared.

when I have conversations with my financial advisor and he takes me

back to once my mother unfortunately transitioned off the sea.

He, like, you were completely paralyzed.

And I, I heard him say it and I was like.

That sounds so bad, but when I reflect it was the truth.

I was like, oh my gosh, I have these resources that I've never had in my life.

I have no idea what I'm supposed to do, how I'm supposed to do it.

And thankfully, I was able to find someone that had a kingdom perspective

on that and was able to help me navigate.

But I was scared to death because I didn't want to, blow this opportunity

that my mom and God had given me.

I wanted to be a good steward.

But at the same time, I didn't have any background or experience in it.

so for me, that kickstarted a journey of, okay, how do I learn how to

steward these resources effectively?

How do I make decisions about money?

Now, when you have an opportunity to give and it's more than a hundred dollars,

how do you decide whether you're gonna support this cause or this cause?

it's kind of crazy when I think about it, it's like there's this whole other

set of questions and this whole other culture that I quite honestly never

knew existed because I wasn't exposed to anyone that lived that type of life.

I wasn't really taught like, here's how you do it.

Like.

Literally, I was having this conversation months before my

mother was transitioning off the scene, and it wasn't my main focus.

My main focus was being there for her.

So I had to learn and am still learning, and that's one of the reasons why

I interview people that can help me kind of get my mindset right on this.

I'm having to learn, okay, how do I need to think about this?

Because my thinking has to be in alignment before my behavior

is going to be in alignment.

Yeah, there's so much there.

And what's interesting is I earlier talked about how

you are and you're wired to, and it sounds like you were hit with a situation

that you were undecisive, you didn't

I didn't know

It was like, it took,

that's true.

of that away.

So that, and I think that's healthy for us at times.

'cause sometimes it's like, this is the Lord saying this is an opportunity.

People don't understand.

You try to write a big check.

And big is relative, by

Yeah.

try to write a big check to a few ministries or churches or

something like that and see what kind of issues that causes.

Absolutely.

like a whole different category to get into.

So anyway, that's really good.

And I know that that's an audience that you're now serving.

Yeah.

me, I've got a couple quick questions as we wrap up here, the first one

is tell me who all you serve and

Mm-hmm.

this is a kind of a promotion time for you.

Tell us all that you have to serve them.

We'll include all that we can down in notes, but just give, you know, you've

got podcast and all of these things.

So go ahead and tell us that now and then we've got one more

question I wanna wrap up with.

Thank you for the opportunity to share.

So, first what I would say is the way that I service through the Beacon Show Podcast.

we bring on faith-based leaders in all capacities.

some serve in ministry, some serve in the marketplace, and we showcase these

leaders because what I have found is many people want to know the path.

So how do I get from where I am and this idea that I believe that God has given me

to really being able to make a difference?

And that show is really geared towards the next generation of leaders.

So I think about those that are, 40 and under.

I celebrated 51 years on the planet this year.

so it's really for those that are coming up now.

Have a desire to make a difference and just really want that virtual mentor

that can walk them through the process.

The second piece that I'll highlight, is called the Beacon of Excellence Scorecard.

So this is a scorecard that I have put together as I have been learning

about how to make good decisions when you're investing in people and causes.

It's a mix of some things that I learned in my underwriting background

back in corporate, and conversations that I've had with people that write

big checks much bigger than mine.

and so the scorecard is designed to help those that are looking for

donors and investors understand what people are looking for, because many

times we're hoping for something, we're believing for something, but we

don't know how to position ourselves.

So the Beacon of Excellence Scorecard is designed to answer that question.

You can take it for free on our website.

And then the last piece of the puzzle that I serve with Beacon Chip is

organizations that are helping to train the next generation of leaders.

So, for example, right now I'm working with, the Charlotte,

redemptive entrepreneurship lab here in Charlotte, North Carolina.

We have a group of seven founders that are learning how to put together their

pitch deck so that they can actually speak to their venture from a kingdom

perspective and be able to attract the donors and the investors that have

the ability to sow into their venture.

So we wanna help them really be able to tell the story, which believe it or

not, is not always an easy thing to do.

you know, This is a support that you're looking for, but how do

I package that in a way that people can get it when sometimes

I only have five minutes to do so?

So I'm honored to be able to partner with organizations, that are often

nonprofit incubators and accelerators to help their founders put all those pieces

together so they can be equipped to speak to their venture with confidence.

So those are the three things that I would highlight that, I'm really excited about

doing in the beacon chip world right now.

Very good.

We'll include some links down to the podcast and also to the

website so people can click there.

Tamara, my final question, this is what I'm gonna call

my exclamation point question.

you mentioned that you really minister to people that are under 40

Mm-hmm.

that are probably going along the path that you were going along.

Yeah.

path that I was going along.

I'm gonna give you just, and this needs to come with a punch 'cause we're,

we're going pretty late here, but I'm gonna give you a few seconds, half,

you know, half a minute, whatever.

I want you to speak directly to them.

I want you to either encourage or uplift or correct whatever the

Holy Spirit's telling you to do.

I want you to speak directly to them and tell them whatever message you

believe they need to hear right now.

So the 40 and unders quick decision makers that are of these things we've talked

about that are heading down that path.

Alright, go.

Well, I'm honored to have this opportunity to speak into your life right now.

The first thing that I want you to know is that you are not alone.

There are so many other people that have that burning desire in their

heart to make a difference that you do.

And there's a reason that that burning desire is there.

God has equipped you and called you to make an impact in the world.

The key is that you have to avoid getting ahead of God.

So I wanna encourage you to really press in.

You may know some of the pieces, but there's so much that you do not know.

I wanna encourage you to spend time with God.

Don't make assumptions, don't make quick decisions.

Really seek him about what he's calling you to do All things in his

timing is my encouragement to you.

Oh, that is excellent.

Tamara Jackson, she's a beacon.

We've enjoyed, shining some light during this conversation and

it's been really cool for me to talk to someone who's like me.

Yeah.

I hate to say looking in a mirror or something like that.

I almost like a little therapy type thing here.

I dunno if I'm liking it or not.

I'm a little bit squirmy here in my seat.

but, I've enjoyed this.

everybody go check out all the stuff that Tamara has and connect with her.

And, and this is an important message, this message of achievers, really,

really locking arms and trusting.

And God.

And so I encourage you to take all of this to heart.

I appreciate her personal message that she just shared there at the end.

We're seek got new episodes every Monday.

We're on YouTube, we're on all the podcast platforms.

Things are rocking along.

I was looking at some of the numbers on YouTube this morning

and we are growing over there.

So thank

Praise God.

of that and uh, We will see everyone next week on Seek Go Create.