Narrator [00:00:04]:

Welcome to Supply Chain Now. The voice of global supply chain. Supply Chain Now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience. The people, the technologies, the best practices, and today's critical issues, the challenges and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on Supply Chain Now.

Scott W. Luton [00:00:33]:

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Luton and special guest host MJ Schoemaker here with you on Supply chain now. Welcome to today's show. MJ, how are you doing today?

MJ Schoemaker [00:00:45]:

I'm doing fantastically, Scott. Thanks so much for inviting me on your show.

Scott W. Luton [00:00:49]:

You bet. We've loved the conversations we've had in the past. This is gonna be another great one. And by the way, I love that colorful scarf that you are wearing. I gotta get one of them.

MJ Schoemaker [00:00:58]:

Thank you. It'll look great on you.

Scott W. Luton [00:01:01]:

Hey, next show we're going to have it. But on today's episode, we're continuing our highly, very well received ongoing series, supply chain leadership across Africa, which has been one aspect of our mission here at supply chain now for years. It's been incredibly rewarding to spotlight the sheer brilliance and leadership, innovation, supply chain management, a whole bunch more across the continent of Africa. And we've got a great show teed up here today as we're going to be gaining key takeaways from a big, big, big annual supply chain leadership event that's hosted each year in South Africa. MJ. Should be a great discussion, huh?

MJ Schoemaker [00:01:35]:

Absolutely. And just saying, we missed you, but we hope to see you soon again. I think, you know, the introduction video you gave us was amazing. It was really well welcomed by the audience.

Scott W. Luton [00:01:46]:

I really appreciate that. And I appreciate that opportunity. I really missed all the conversations and the presentations and the networking and the relationships that we enjoyed a couple years ago. But I tell you, I've seen some of the output from the conference. And I saw Sophia and Stella and many others, including Vanya here, which introduced in just a second, really deliver and make it happen. So hopefully we'll be back in 2025. But, MJ, I'll tell you, every time you come, you bring some big time rock and roll stars and global industry. And today we continue that trend, right?

MJ Schoemaker [00:02:21]:

Absolutely. And I think, you know, what's really great is that we're bringing the young folk in. We've got some good youngsters here that are really doing some amazing things. So it's going to be a very exciting conversation.

Scott W. Luton [00:02:32]:

It is. So with no further ado, I want to welcome in these two guests that will be joining us here today. Thato Moloi, area, head for contract logistics for Southern Africa and islands at mayor's. Thato, how you doing?

Thato Moloi [00:02:46]:

Hey, Scott. I'm good. And how are you doing?

Scott W. Luton [00:02:49]:

Wonderful. Great to see you. Great to meet you. I can't wait to dive in. And joining Thato is Vanya Jansen, managing director with Optigrow. Vanya, how you doing?

Vanya Jansen [00:02:59]:

Good. Good, Scott. Excited for the convos.

Scott W. Luton [00:03:02]:

We are too. We are too. I tell you, we've heard a lot about you and Thato both, and looking forward to sharing y'all's expertise with our audience. And by the way, folks, my special co host here, MJ Schoemaker. If you don't already know, she's been with us on a variety of past episodes. She serves as president of the board at SaFix, an organization doing excellent work helping folks to connect, learn, advance, innovate and network across Africa and really the globe. MJ, appreciate what you and Safix do.

MJ Schoemaker [00:03:32]:

Absolutely. I think, you know, safe really focuses on educating, elevating and empowering the supply chain community. And as we talk through this podcast, we're going to hear many things, as you said about the conference, which talks to those three elements.

Scott W. Luton [00:03:45]:

That is right, a conference that's been going on for how many years now, MJ?

MJ Schoemaker [00:03:48]:

46.

Scott W. Luton [00:03:49]:

It was our 46th man, 46 years. But more on that in a minute because this could have been the best one yet. But before we get there, MJ, Vanya and Thato, let's get to know our guests a little bit better. And I'll tell you, as I've learned a little bit in the pre show about each of our guests, it really makes me want to step up my activity and athletic extracurricular activities. Cause starting with Thato. Thato, your last marathon, which you're real passionate about running when you're not doing big things out in global supply chain. Your last marathon you ran was the Cape Town marathon in 2022. And if I'm not mistaken, you took a little time off, but you're about to jump back in and dive back into the marathon scene in a big way.

Scott W. Luton [00:04:32]:

Tell us more.

Thato Moloi [00:04:33]:

So, look, I've taken a bit of a break due to unforeseen circumstances, but I'm gearing up to jump in again. One of my dreams is to run the Comrades marathon, which is over 90 kilometer run down in Durban. So I'm looking forward to that. It's going to be quite exciting for me. It's quite a painful journey to get there. I qualified in 2022 to run in 2023, but didn't make it to the race. So the running joke in South Africa is every time you tell someone that you are a runner, the second question that follows is, have you done the comrades? So it's a monkey on my back that I need to actually deal with very, very soon. Yeah.

Scott W. Luton [00:05:11]:

Well, I tell you, I know you will. And your passion about running comes across. And 90, you do that in a single day. Is that right, Thato? Yes. Oh, man. I tell you, one choice. That is something. See, I'm exhibiting my marathon ignorance here.

Scott W. Luton [00:05:29]:

But, hey, when you run that race, we want you to come back and you can tell us all about it. And you'll have, as you put it, that monkey off your back. So you can, when you can answer that question, say, yes. I did, and I finished in first place. So Tada. That's what's gonna happen. Okay. All right.

Scott W. Luton [00:05:45]:

Great to have you here today, Vanya. You've got an interesting hobby that you do when you're not doing big things in industry, and I think it's something that more of the world is really embracing, and that's woodworking, but not just woodworking. We hear that you have actually built and like to build, like, functional furniture for your family and others out there. Tell us more about that.

Vanya Jansen [00:06:05]:

Yeah, Scott. So usually we're quite limited with the space that we have, and I like having functional things. That's why I find myself in the supply chain. So sort of using different types of wood, creating your own design allows you the flexibility that you need while giving the people that I love everything they want. So I've created various types of cabinets, tv stands. Murphy beds in South Africa is not big, but we have such limited space. The average space of a two bedroom unit is about 60 m². I've got no idea how much feet that is, but it's such limited space, and as a result, many of the kids in our family actually don't have space to play.

Vanya Jansen [00:06:47]:

So I'm embarking on this journey to figure out how do I make Murphy beds to be a thing in South Africa so that my family. Family has more space to actually do the things that they enjoy while actually having a functional living space.

Scott W. Luton [00:07:01]:

Love that. I love the hobby itself. I think it's fascinating, but I love how you have embraced a noble mission around it. Right as you look to give families more space by building and providing more Murphy beds. What is your favorite wood to build stuff with?

Vanya Jansen [00:07:16]:

So it's ash at the moment. So I've used some Oregon, which is a nice, heavy hardwood, but it gives me enough flexibility to actually do the curves. And I've just started now to do some routing, which is fantastic, potentially dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. So still learning to get that expertise.

MJ Schoemaker [00:07:38]:

Better hold on to those fingers, I think, Scott.

Scott W. Luton [00:07:41]:

That's right. That's right, MJ, no doubt. And we'll have to get some pictures. We have to get some pictures of Thato crossing the finish line in first place, pictures of Vanya and some of these Murphy beds and other furniture that you've been building. And we'll share that in a future episode for sure. Now, MJ, that brings us to you. Now, last time you're with us, you had a really big cycling initiative where you're raising tons of money for a great nonprofit. And those activities have continued as you've recently tackled a cycling and climbing competition.

Scott W. Luton [00:08:14]:

Is that right, MJ?

MJ Schoemaker [00:08:15]:

Yeah. So the last one was the Cape cycle tour. We were raising money for breast cancer. So that was the 109 km around the peninsula of Cape Town. This time it was more for myself, really. I went with 14 ladies and we went to the Alps and we cycled 250, climbed 4800 meters over five days. So I think my body felt that. But it was a fun achievement.

MJ Schoemaker [00:08:40]:

So maybe I can cycle with tartar over the finish line.

Scott W. Luton [00:08:45]:

Hey, I'm confident you can. It's funny, when you said Alps, I was like, oh, that's beautiful. And you described all the strenuous activities. I'm like, oh, maybe next year. But to do those things, I'm sure you got to train year round, which, you know, Todo was talking kind of about earlier. So appreciate what you do. And sometimes you got to do it for yourself to kind of be prepared so you can tackle that next big initiative for others. So love that.

Scott W. Luton [00:09:07]:

As always, MJ, thanks for being here. Appreciate what y'all do. Okay, so now we're going to get into lots of stuff about supply chain, lots of stuff about the safe annual conference, the 46th Sapix annual conference. Some of the things that you want to take away that you may have missed by not being there. And I want to start, though, with some context. Context is so important in this fast moving world. So, Todd, I want to start with you in your role there with Maersk. Could you share a little bit about your background on what you do for one of the world's largest shipping companies?

Thato Moloi [00:09:37]:

So I head up contract logistics on the warehousing and distribution side for southern Africa and the islands. It's fairly new within Maersk as a vertical before this, I mean, I'm still new into the business. This is my 20, well, the 23 days in my new job. Previously to this, I was the managing director for a company called Nebula Logistics, formerly known as biology Logistics. So, yeah, and they still spend most of my career within the warehousing and distribution space. Three Pl, looking after quite a large share of your blue chip businesses that are trading within the south african borders.

Scott W. Luton [00:10:20]:

So you just mentioned most, and congrats on your relatively new role, by the way. I'm sure you do big things as if it were a marathon or something. I'm sure you do big things with Maersk. And you mentioned you've spent most of your career in that warehousing, distribution logistics space. What's one thing, Thato, that you just love about getting stuff done in that portion, that critical portion of global supply chain?

Thato Moloi [00:10:42]:

I think what excites me is, I think it'll come out in most of our conversations as we move across, is in supply chain. You can't look at things in silos, the collaboration, having to work with multiple stakeholders. How do you integrate across suppliers to achieve a single course? If you look at the whole product lifecycle, from manufacturing all the way to your end customer, it's highly seldom that you find one entity, organization that can actually execute that entire supply chain vertical, whereas you actually need to have components in there that all speak to one another to actually deliver a common cause and make, ultimately, the end consumer happy. So, for me, it's that collaboration, when I tend to thrive within that space where you bring in different components together to make it work. So that's the thrill for me.

Scott W. Luton [00:11:33]:

Love it, Thato. You know, I've heard it put, and I've stole this shamelessly since I first heard it. That global supply chain is the ultimate team sport. And I love that. And I love that, as you described it. Right, breaking down those silos. MJ, I'll give you a chance to comment on what you heard there, because that's as he described it in that mission that unites, you know, the whole ecosystem to deliver for customers and to get business done and to make the world better. I mean, I really think that may sound dramatic for some.

Scott W. Luton [00:12:00]:

I really believe that's what global supply chain does in some of the ways your thoughts are, MJ, and what Thato shared.

MJ Schoemaker [00:12:05]:

Absolutely. And I think, you know, the logistic chain, you know, they're usually the last grape that has been squeezed. So everybody is running from the marketing, the demand, right through to the production, and then the customer wants something. Logistics is the last one who has to run when all the other other elements have nothing delivered as they should. So I think Tarto has an exciting road ahead of him. I think there's going to be some challenges, some fun, but I know Tarto can do it because he loves challenges. That's why he's standing there. And I absolutely agree.

MJ Schoemaker [00:12:35]:

When you have contract logistics, you have to talk to each other. I think the days are over where we competing against each other or trying to break each other down, getting the best price. It's about what works for you both and what is the win that you can get out to serve the customer.

Scott W. Luton [00:12:49]:

Well said, mJ. And I'm gonna steal that phrase. The last grape to get squeezed. All right, so, Vanya, switching gears here. Congrats again as you've recently opened your own consulting firm, optigrow. Can't wait to see the big things you do there. Hey, tell us briefly about your area of expertise and kind of where you focus that consulting work.

Vanya Jansen [00:13:08]:

Thanks, Scott. So I've got a background that spreads from manufacturing logistics similar to Thato. I also spent some time bala world. My previous position was heading up Wyazing as well for one of the biggest brands in Esei. And what I realized is that I need to share more of what I've learned over the last few years, predominantly in transformational change within that supply chain. And how best do we bring in a bit of industrial psychology into the supply chain? So, my background is actually industrial psychology, but like many of us, we find ourselves working within the supply chain because of the way that we are wired. You know, we want to solve problems. We love the sense of urgency, and we love dealing with challenges.

Vanya Jansen [00:13:59]:

So within this space, I'm looking at one on one coaching, leadership development, particularly looking at resilience and agile capabilities, and then also how does one fit or optimize your people, your processes, and your systems? I know it might sound so cliche, but, I mean, we speak about it, we want it, but it's not easy to take all these concepts and create a roadmap that makes it easy for us to achieve it, let alone see the returns on the triple bottom line. So that's the space that I want to engage a bit more with, especially with leaders and executives. I think I have a very tough time just dealing with operations as it is, dealing with the amount of disruptions that they are, let alone trying to figure out how do we plan or plot this journey into the future. And I want to be the trusted partner, really, in terms of how do we do this together. How do we change the thinking and have a paradigm shift?

Scott W. Luton [00:14:59]:

Really love that. And your passion that comes across there as you were describing what you do and how you're going to help organizations. And going back to the first 1st part of your response, MJ, bringing you in here, we do love solving problems. We love solving problems. I think that is a big common element in folks that make supply chain happen. And I'll tell you, Amanda tells me all the time she's behind the scenes. Her and Josh were making production happen. Thank you all for what you do.

Scott W. Luton [00:15:23]:

But sometimes, Amanda, as we have our work discussions, she just wants to tell me the problem. She has to stop me. Scott, I don't need a solution. Stop solutioning right now. I just want to tell you about it. And it's just kind of how we're dispositioned like that, I think in many ways. MJ, your thoughts?

MJ Schoemaker [00:15:38]:

Yeah, I think one of the things that we often ask the leadership, you know, tell us what the problem statement is, and then you hear a very long story. And in the end, I think that would be your role, Vanya, is to actually put it in one sentence, what the issue is or what the challenge is. And leadership are stretched at the moment. They have to be agile. There's a lot of change going on. And the soft skills are often underestimated because normally panic breaks out and supply chain people are very hands on. So we just run and we just go solve the problem without having the proper conversation and thinking about how does that fit with the strategy, which actually also changes all the time. Because your strategy is actually not even five years old.

MJ Schoemaker [00:16:14]:

It can't be because everything is changing so much. So definitely the soft skills, I think, and getting leadership to understand that. How important is the side of empathy, understanding, because everyone's under pressure. Yes. I think all supply chain people are engineers somewhere along the line, whether they studied it or not. And we just love it. We just jump in there and solve things.

Scott W. Luton [00:16:36]:

Excellent point. And as much as I've learned in my career from the formal engineers that you find out across industry, I've learned equally as much, if not a bit more, from the informal engineers that you're kind of referring to, the MJ that come from the school of hard knocks. Right. All right, a lot of good stuff here. Thato, Vanya and MJ, I want to dive into big conference. The 46th annual Safix Annual Conference 2024 was held just about a month and some change ago, right? Maybe a couple months. By the time we publish this interview, I've seen, having attended it in person in 2023, powerful experience. And of course, 2024, I've seen, I've had some conversations with attendees and it really delivered.

Scott W. Luton [00:17:20]:

It could have been the best conference yet. MJ is kind of what I'm hearing. So I want to take this opportunity with Thato, Vanya and MJ to get each of you all to share a couple of your favorite lessons learned from this year's conference. Right, and Thato, I want to start with you. What do you point to as you think about your experience from the conference this year.

Thato Moloi [00:17:41]:

When you think about CePEX and firstly the content, then speed, shade, it's quite broad and we spoil it for choice in terms of where do you want to focus. You're covering all the way from planning all the way down to execution, continuous improvement, but all centered around supply chain. But for me, one of the things that I've been proud of over the past two years is the collaboration, particularly with Transnet and the National Logistics Crisis Committee that have joined us for the past two years to actually give us feedback on the work that they're doing. And if you think about the rail, port and road crisis that we're experiencing, and I mean, it's undermining growth in South Africa, but the level of attention and reinforcement that's going into resolving these issues that we're experiencing is being led by Mkolisi Gojo. And the president sits with them every six weeks to get feedback around the activities that they're doing. But if you look at the progress that they've done last year they came in, they told us what their plans were, what they intend on doing, how are they going to deal with the leadership issues, structural issues within Transnet, the longstanding issues from the locomotive point of view, the maintenance issues, aging infrastructure, cable theft, everything that's impacting logistics within South Africa, the congested corridors, port delays, etcetera, and seeing them that a year later, there's been progress. And the fundamental thing that I took away from that is the collaboration they'd have had with business, business and government coming together to actually find a common purpose, to actually solve our problems from a supply chain point of view. So for me, that's number one take out and probably the biggest thing that I've taken away from this year's conference and last year, the agent interventions and plans that they've started executing on and allowing private players to also come into their space and invest where they don't have the capacity.

Thato Moloi [00:19:40]:

So the big word for me there is collaboration. And we're not going to get anything done or anything resolved, or the country or the continent is not going to grow if business and government don't work together. And we need to collaborate. So for me, there is number one. And the second thing is also to collaboration and seeing a, the progress that's happening around the african continental free trade area agreements that's been in play and how, country to country, there's been some momentum, engagements are actually happening. So we're seeing countries collaborate, but it's also allowing businesses to actually collaborate on the ground. So collaboration, again, being a key factor there. But the second point that also stands out for me in the conference, the number of times when I spoke to people and in the engagements is around integrations.

Thato Moloi [00:20:31]:

And it goes back to my earlier point around, in order for supply chains to actually work, the technology, the people in the process need to work in Hamun, how does your TMS, if you're in the transportation space, integrate with your warehouse management system? How do you bring in the demand management systems into play? And all of this has to be seamless, and it needs to be well orchestrated in order to service the customer. Customers don't want to hear about, well, it failed in the distribution space or it failed in the warehousing. How do you have a well orchestrated supply chain? And it boils down to integrations and how do you orchestrate your supply chain? So those are the two big takeaways for me.

Scott W. Luton [00:21:13]:

Excellent, Thato, and really quick. And I'm going to bring you in here, MJ, to comment on what you heard. I heard there, Thato, customers don't want to hear about what could be and what can be. They want to hear about what it is and what can get done, especially in a proven manner. And you'd mentioned integration is so important. All these technologies play nice in the sandbox, right? That's got to happen wonderfully, hearing about the progress with free trade, more and more opportunities as free trade agreement continues to proliferate across the continent. But I want to go back to the first point you made, MjDeh, which I think is a beautiful thing that the rest of the world needs, too. And that's when government, the public sector and the private sector can come together, right, to get stuff done, whether it's infrastructure or plenty of other needs, and we'll see how this plays out.

Scott W. Luton [00:22:00]:

But I look at the space race, the global space race, and in so many ways, that's exactly what this current generation of space exploration, so it sees it's the government and the public and the private sector coming together. And I'm hoping that we can achieve far more right than if it was just one of those entities driving success. We'll see if global supply chain can learn from the space race. But MJ, quite a list of takeaways there from Thato, from the conference. Your thoughts?

MJ Schoemaker [00:22:30]:

Yeah, so definitely, you know, the progress of the government. So a year before last they came. Well, last year they came and they showed us a dashboard that looked like ICU. They actually called it ICU. And everybody was in, was almost dying there. So all their KPI's looked really terrible. And we all challenged them and said, okay, you have to come back next year and you got to be out of ICU. And a year later they're coming back and they're saying they have had over 30% improvement across the areas of ports, rail, electricity.

MJ Schoemaker [00:23:00]:

So you've heard of load shedding. I know it does happen in the states as well. We haven't had any for 100 days. I keep saying it's because some of us have solar panels on our roof, but I'm sure there's a combination of elements there. So absolutely encouraging. You know, we just had the elections, and our government, you know, they lost the majority, and they are now in a coalition, which I think is an example to the rest of the world, where they actually went together with the opposition, says we're going to work together. And that's very much in line with, you know, public and private working together. So I'm actually very proud of South Africa that they've actually managed to get that.

MJ Schoemaker [00:23:35]:

And I'm very excited about what they're going to bring next. So I absolutely agree with tart, and hopefully it makes your new job easier. Thato, if the ports are working.

Thato Moloi [00:23:46]:

100%.

Scott W. Luton [00:23:47]:

That'S exciting, a lot of what you shared there, but in particular, I kind of focused in on that, that hundred days of since the last load shedding, if I heard you right. Is that right, MJ? I heard you right.

MJ Schoemaker [00:23:57]:

That's correct.

Scott W. Luton [00:23:58]:

Yes, that is. So if I think about, you know, the years we've done this series, probably three, maybe just over three, you know, with you and Jenny froome and plenty of others. Claire, of course, who's also out there with us helping to make things happen. Claire Fincham. We could oftentimes barely get through a 92nd recording session without being, you know, having generators come on or something. And so that's big news. And so to hear about all the other progress for me, as kind of not a local citizen. Right.

Scott W. Luton [00:24:26]:

And being able to kind of do check ins from interview to interview, that signals great progress. So hopefully we can continue to see that. It's wonderful. Okay, Vanya, man, Thato and MJ set quite the bar. So from your perspective of key takeaways from the conference, what did you see there? That really excited Giovanni.

Vanya Jansen [00:24:45]:

So there was quite a few themes. The first one was really around the role that standardization can play in allowing us really to interchange quite a lot of the functions that we do within the supply chain. Looking at processes, your production systems, people, as an example. Because we've been dealt with so many blows. I mean, me personally, I had one of my warehouses more than 60,000 m² down for almost three months because it was flooded 2 meters of water. So how do you continue doing business, really? And what can you stand advantage versus what you can't? The second thing was the role of AI versus the critical skills of the execution specialist. How do you differentiate these two elements, and how do you optimize both of them within? Because there's space for both. It's no longer that competition or it's the and word that we're using.

Vanya Jansen [00:25:43]:

What was also interesting was looking at the younger generation coming in and the need for a more sustainable supply chain. But again, it's at the expense of what. And that is what we need to ask ourselves, what is it that we're trying to drive? How do we incorporate? Again, there's this inclusion, it's dealing with multiple things, the interdependency of things. That has become quite a big theme for me in the last sapphics. And then what was nice was also just getting a bit of affirmation from the role of women in the supply chain. It's been a challenge. And then also understanding how do we actually become those barriers, or how do we prevent from being those barriers of entry for other women that follows us. So it was quite a jam packed session.

Vanya Jansen [00:26:34]:

I mean, I have loads of notes. It was quite fun going and just understanding. Again, how does one apply these different themes? But again, one can see them coming out in all your different discussions that you're having. It's topical items that we are dealing with in the boardroom.

Scott W. Luton [00:26:51]:

Vanya. Oh gosh, where do we start here? MJ? This is good stuff. We're having this conversation right now with the backdrop of a global technology outage. Right? And I think there are going to be such powerful lessons learned just from the last week that you're kind of speaking to, including new ways of finding resilience, new ways of eliminating the blind spots that we will always have. And when it comes to really understanding just how fragile our organizations, our operations, our supply chains, our technology apparatus can be and the role of standardization, you know, what's old is new again. It's as relevant as it ever has been. So I love that call out, I love your call out about basically the technology and the execution specialists and how that we've got to eliminate the or and amplify the power of the. And there.

Scott W. Luton [00:27:43]:

Well said, vanya. And then one final note, women in supply chain, we got to keep working hard to provide opportunities for all, not just for bringing folks into global supply chain from all walks of life, but providing advancement opportunities for all. We got a lot more work to do there. But I'll point to an interesting research piece that our friends at Village Reach have recently. I think they released it at the conference.

MJ Schoemaker [00:28:06]:

They did.

Scott W. Luton [00:28:07]:

Yeah. It dives into some really powerful data and key takeaways, especially as it relates to women supply chain folks. You can learn more@villagereach.org dot we'll see if we can include the link to that directly on this episode page. MJ Man, Thato and Vanya are bringing it here today. We could do a mini series based on just their last two responses. What did you hear there, MJ?

MJ Schoemaker [00:28:29]:

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think Vanya, I was actually on the panel of that women in supply chain session, and I, one of the questions I asked, because every year when I'm on the panel, you know, a lot of the women say they want mentors. And I asked at the beginning of the session, how many of you have mentors? And almost everybody put their hand up, which says to me that anything's possible. That means it was worth it to always have these sessions. It was worth it to have the right conversation because they've all gone out, because we always said to them, you have to help yourself as well. So they all went out and they found a mentor. So very pleased about that AI. Wow, that's a big one.

MJ Schoemaker [00:29:04]:

And the AI, I would call it jungle, you know, what data can you use? What data can you not use? I'm sure, you know, Scott, there's more and more issues about false data, incorrect data. You have to be so careful. And then, yes, when everything shuts down, what do you do? Not to give my age away, but I remember saying to my team when I was working in corporate, I said, what if we can't send an invoice? What if the invoice doesn't print out? And we need to send the shipment. What are we going to do? And we actually put it together in Excel and then, you know, would make it like that instead. I said, we just need a backup plan. And I think after Covid, especially now after this it era, if you want to call it or blip, I think we're getting woken up all the time to say, be careful, don't rely too much. Don't be too one sided on what you're looking at. Make sure that you can do both.

Scott W. Luton [00:29:56]:

We are. We're getting woken up all the time. Awakenings, it seems like, by the hour. Goodness gracious. But hey, that's how we get better, right? Of course, we don't want to have a global technology outage. We want to prevent those if we can. But if they're going to happen, we've got to learn from them and put these learnings into practice, which is kind of a theme that all three of y'all in different ways have spoken to here today. Okay, I want to go back to Yvonne.

Thato Moloi [00:30:23]:

Yeah, can I just add. I just want to add something that Vanya said around sustainability, and it's become a big learning for me as well, around sustainability, that it's probably the one space that we don't want to compete in. This is definitely an area where we need to have shared learnings. If there are any ideas that people have around how do we do things better from an environmental point of view, we have to share those solutions. We cannot compete on things that can actually save. That can save humanity. It doesn't make sense for me when we go to conference, when you go to Cepex, we want people to share openly around, what are you doing to close the loop on your supply chain? That cannot be a competitive advantage. It is definitely something that you share, and we all have to do what's responsible for the planet.

Thato Moloi [00:31:13]:

It's an important conversation, and I think business needs to look at this completely different. You know, you can't work in isolation when it comes to these important topics.

Scott W. Luton [00:31:23]:

Well said, Thato. And, you know, bringing it here to the states with hurricane season, you know, if I'm not mistaken that we've already had one of the most powerful storms this early in the season that a lot of folks will attribute to climate change and warmer weather and warmer waters. And on a slightly less serious note, I was reading this yesterday, not to make light of anything, but I think this is interesting, is shark activity. Because of warmer ocean waters, we're seeing shark activity rising historically here, at least in beaches around the states. If we got to solve climate change for anything. Let's solve it for that. Right. But anyway, Thato, great point, well received and we've got a lot of work to do.

Scott W. Luton [00:32:05]:

But hey, global supply chain is uniquely positioned to make it happen, I believe. Vanya, I want to go back to going back to the conference, you, I believe received. MJ. She received the award for best presenter. Am I getting that verbiage right? MJ?

MJ Schoemaker [00:32:20]:

Yes, that's correct.

Scott W. Luton [00:32:21]:

This presentation, does that come with a new cadillac? MJ?

MJ Schoemaker [00:32:25]:

No, it comes with a really nice looking trophy next year, the Cadillac.

Scott W. Luton [00:32:36]:

High praise and a formal reward. And that's right, Thato, that message you shared that really resonated with folks and I actually was pulling up, was going through the, at least the PowerPoint behind your message, really enjoyed it, very practical. I think you touched on how you're a real practical thinker and that comes across in that message. But share if you would, Vanya, a couple of key points from your presentation.

Vanya Jansen [00:33:00]:

I think the thing is what's going to differentiate us going forward and make sure that we win that strategy is really how resilient our organizations and how agile are they to gain the opportunities we are seeing. Similar in South Africa, we are having really bad weather. It's impacting. We have floods constantly. There's many challenges that are facing us. The poverty is increasing, unemployment is increasing. So we know these things are getting worse. That's making life for organizations actually a bit more tough.

Vanya Jansen [00:33:32]:

And part of that is how do we differentiate and take some of our inward capabilities and use that as a competitive advantage? And over there I'm really speaking about how are we optimizing our leadership style? Are we using leaders to really set us apart and to be that breed apartheid in winning the strategy? And it's no longer about what your preference is as a leader. You know, I'm a transformational leader. I like delivering practical solutions. But in reality, when you are dealing with some of the crisis that we deal with, I need to learn that empathy is going to supersede the result of the business at that particular time. Alternatively, if we're going through a crisis and shareholders need to understand what is going on, I need to be able to communicate in a succinct way to satisfy and to calm them and to calm the consumers and everyone else you're collaborating with on how we're going to deal with these crises. So it's really not around what's your preferred leadership style anymore? But how do you go about interchanging and understanding what is the demand that is required from you as a leader in a specific situation. And it's somewhat different to situational leadership. It's really, you need to be authentic in how you approach this, and that authenticity needs to come through in those specific skills that one can be taught.

Vanya Jansen [00:35:03]:

And as a young person, I always thought that leaders were born and not made. And the more that I study, I've realized that leaders can be made. There are specific skills and traits and capabilities that we can actually teach them. So a lot of the studies that I've done is understanding, what is that? What type of development do we do, and how do we help these leaders become mature? Because the more self aware leaders are, the easier they can interchange between these scenarios. And that takes a lot of introspection. The second part is really the impact that leaders have on the organization's culture. I mean, we are that saying, how many times, you know, your organizational culture eats strategy for breakfast. I mean, we say it, we said we say it, but how many times are we proving it? And if you want to build resilient and agile capabilities within your business, there are tangible things that one needs to do, you know? And part of the discussion was really unpacking and trying to conceptualize what are the things that organizations need to do to get from where I am today to where I want to be in the future.

Vanya Jansen [00:36:18]:

So that was really the four comments, or the four areas that I particularly looked into and delved a bit deeper into.

Scott W. Luton [00:36:25]:

Vanya, I loved it. And just from the little snippets you shared, no wonder your message resonated with so many folks. The power, just a little snippet of many things you shared. The power of authentic, empathetic leadership can never be overstated. And I love your belief, which sounds like it's rooted in research and data, that leaders can certainly be made, that they don't have to be born. You may not have, folks may not have the charisma of a Nelson Mandela or John F. Kennedy or whatever, and that's okay, because leaders, they come in all sorts of different packages. But there's certain traits you can certainly learn, such as being much more empathetic.

Scott W. Luton [00:37:04]:

And that comes with lots of practice and intent. Excellent stuff, Anya. And I bet if folks reached out to you, I bet you'd be willing to share more of the message if they would like. Bonnie, does that work for you?

Vanya Jansen [00:37:15]:

Most definitely.

Scott W. Luton [00:37:17]:

Okay, speaking of leadership, this is a great segue, because I want to switch back over to MJ and Thato. So, MJ, you've served as president of Safix for quite some time, helped so many people, so many organizations. I've seen it firsthand. It's great to see you in person last year. Enjoyed our time together as I saw you in action. Share one of your favorite aspects of your servant leadership.

MJ Schoemaker [00:37:39]:

MJ that's a great question, Scott. And I always said, you know, I think Vanya, you even mentioned it yourself as well, is that, you know, you always want to give back somehow. So when you see things are working and you've had a successful career and you've done things and you feel why can't others do it like that or why can't they be successful? And being the president of Sapex, I think Zappix has, I mean, we went through Covid time, we couldn't have our conferences two years in a row. So that was tough because as you can imagine, the conference is something that drives us organization and financially as well as serving our community. And we had to be very creative. We had to actually work as a business, which I think a lot of associations don't do. They don't look at it as a business. So you have to look at your costs, you have to look at what is your pillar that is bringing in your money versus the other things that are sort of nice to have.

MJ Schoemaker [00:38:28]:

So it was actually a fun time because it was like running a business instead of an association, which was, it was challenging. But I had a really good board. I even have an even better board now. I think everyone brings their little bit in and we have just shuffled up the board a little bit, which means we're also going to shuffle up a sapik. It was really a great opportunity to be creative, to try new things and to give back, hopefully, you know, and I think we did quite well. We're back. I thought we were going to go broke, but we're not. We're here, we're alive and kicking.

MJ Schoemaker [00:39:01]:

So I'm very happy about that. You know, I'm very honest, transparent, and I think that's also what Vanya was talking to. Right? So leadership needs to be honest, they need to be transparent and they need to be agile, not in just how they run the business, but how they actually treat their staff, how they manage their staff and be transparent. If you have to cut costs and the horrible side of that has to happen, then it has to happen and rationalize that. But on the other hand, you can also get the rest of the organization moving with you. So, yeah, and I think just, you know, touching back on the conference, you know, we had a lot of global public health people. You saw that when you were there in 2023, Scott. And again, anything's possible.

MJ Schoemaker [00:39:40]:

Drones delivering medication. I mean, how amazing is that? Getting to rural areas where people normally have to spend a lot of time traveling? It's just fantastic. So it makes it all worth it, really.

Scott W. Luton [00:39:53]:

Undoubtedly. And the first part of your response there, MJ, as you were describing transparency and being frank and all that stuff, many other things, it reminded me, all that comes together and it builds more trust. And when you have trust amongst a team, amongst an organization or an association amongst an industry, right, you can really move mountains. And that's a good thing because we've got lots of mountains to move. So, MJ, really appreciate what you've been doing and the sheer outcomes as you've navigated the highest of the highs and lowest of the lows that any association, organization gets through. And Tata, I'll tell you, switching gears here, you're leaning into a variety of new challenges, man. You've got an appetite for change. You're leaning into a new era in your marathon competitions.

Scott W. Luton [00:40:37]:

I love that you're leaning into a new big time role with one of the world's largest shipping companies, Maersk. Right. And congrats. As you are president elect of, say, Pix. And you're feeding from the fire hose and getting stuff done. So what's a couple of things that you want, that you want to accomplish in this role as president elect of Sapix? Thanks.

Thato Moloi [00:41:00]:

But I think it's important that at first, I acknowledge MJ here. I think I've been very privileged to serve on the board under her leadership as president. I mean, she led probably at the most difficult time for the organization. Post Covid, we couldn't have a conference that's our main event in the calendar. And having to make tough decisions, you know, leading a fairly new, some new board member, having to lead and transform that organization to what it looks like today, making tough decisions and having to really go into the details, which was completely different to how the board was structured previously. So I've been very fortunate to watch that and learn from her. And I still have her in the driving seat so I can learn some more before I actually take over the reins. But it's been, yeah, it's been great.

Thato Moloi [00:41:49]:

And thanks, MJ, for everything you've done for the organization. So, look, I'm very passionate about Africa. I'm passionate about its transformation. I'm passionate about the industrialization of Africa. And I think supply chains are the backbone to deliver that growth and without it, we're actually not going to achieve any of it. So hence why I actually put my hand up and I believe it is. CepEx is the biggest supply chain platform within the continent. I think it can get bigger than what it is.

Thato Moloi [00:42:20]:

I see Cepex as an integrator of people from a professional point of view, bringing in even young professionals that are new into the industry, bringing the government, bringing business, bringing the overall community, and also bringing in our stakeholders from an education point of view like the universities. And that's the call it ecosystem that supply chain needs to kind of orchestrate or to be orchestrated in order to deliver that growth that I'm speaking to. How do we get there? I think we definitely have to grow our membership. We need more members. We need to capture them young as they're coming in, bridge that gap between the skills that business is looking for in order to drive that growth. But we need education to also listen to what business is actually asking for in terms of skills. And sometimes there's a disconnect in terms of what business is saying. These are the skills that we need.

Thato Moloi [00:43:13]:

And education has got their own mandate that they trying to deliver against. We need to bring those stakeholders together and I think CepEx is well positioned to have discussions in an open, free manner with no obligations of any sort. So I think we can provide that platform. So we have to bring young people in, young professionals in. We have to bring all those other stakeholders in. We have to grow our partnerships. You know, we've got the likes of staff that we've worked with. We've got smart procurement that we've worked with.

Thato Moloi [00:43:43]:

We working closely with the Botswana organization to deliver another conference in Botswana in partnership with them. So we have to grow. We have to have more relationships, such as the relationships we have with the likes of SuSaf and smart procurement. We don't have to, you know, if there's other supply chain organizations that exist, we need to partner with them as well. You know, it's about having a common cause. And obviously, like, the networking is probably the most important thing that we can foster. So we have to continue creating a yemenite, an environment where people can come and connect and share ideas. And that's how we're going to.

Thato Moloi [00:44:22]:

Sepex is going to grow and that's the space that I believe it can contribute to the growth.

Scott W. Luton [00:44:28]:

I speak to Thato. I love it. I love it. I want to go back. You shared a bunch of great nuggets there. I want to go back to your phrase integrator of people. That is so important on so many different levels. Think about all the different things that the global supply chain industry delivers right across the globe.

Scott W. Luton [00:44:45]:

So many different things. But perhaps chief amongst them is we deliver opportunities, right? And we've got to make more and more folks aware of those opportunities. So I'll tell you, MJ, Tonyou and Thato, the leadership of Sapiens is bright. I can't wait to see the new heights that the organization continues to rise to and appreciate what both of you all do. So as we start to wind down, man, I really wish we had a couple more hours. There's so much good stuff here. But I want to focus in on, you know, this episode here is part of our long running supply chain leadership across Africa series here on supply chain now, where we aim to amplify, we aim to dispel and fill in the blind spot that so many folks have, where as it relates to so many incredible things that's taking place across the continent. You know, we've touched on free trade, we've touched on drones, we've touched on the growing supply chain community and leadership and training and people.

Scott W. Luton [00:45:41]:

We've touched on so many different aspects of noble missions. It's exciting. Entrepreneurism, Vanya is a great example of that is alive and well. It's going to be the transformation that Thato spoke of, of what's going on across the continent. Well, we want to spotlight all that and then some. But all of that begs the question. I'm a tough question. It's not a fair question, but I'm going to ask anyway.

Scott W. Luton [00:46:03]:

What's one thing that each of you all believe that the rest of the world really needs to know about the supply chain industry and leadership community across the african continent. I want to start with you, Vanya.

Vanya Jansen [00:46:15]:

So I think right now, I mean, the time is now. There is political will for change. The need has arisen, and it inspires so many of us to do that. Collaboration. Amintatha mentioned the word collaborate. There is no better time than today. And we can see that we speak about sustainability. Like Thato also mentioned, there's so many opportunities that has been made available.

Vanya Jansen [00:46:43]:

I see working in the different industries and with many retailers, how much they are sharing so that we can improve, you know, understanding the difference of where do we compete and where do we become allies. And that is creating so much opportunities for us within this continent.

Scott W. Luton [00:47:01]:

The time is now, and the opportunities for what we'll call allyship are immense. If we're willing to really lean into that conversation and be confident enough and be vulnerable enough, because some of those conversations, to find those right alliances do take a certain sense of vulnerability. Love your response. The time certainly is now. Thato, how about you? What's one thing the rest of the world needs to really know about the supply chain industry and leadership community across Africa?

Thato Moloi [00:47:33]:

Yeah, I think I live in Echo. What is saying Africa is ready for business? I'll reflect on a statement from Kolisikoch, who leads the National Logistics Crisis committee. And we as business tend to point the finger to government and say, what are you guys doing? What are you doing? And he actually flipped it and said, look, we're all in the same boat. What are you doing as professionals? What do you have to offer? What are you doing today as you walk out that of this car? What are you going to do in order to turn the situation? As soon as he said that, I think a lot of people in the room woke up and realized that we all have to pull together. And I think the continent is ready. We've got the skill sets where we are today. If you're speaking technology, we've got the skill sets to implement complex solutions, whether it be demand management or transport management or warehouse management systems. We've got the skills locally, we've got the right developers, people that can actually integrate these systems.

Thato Moloi [00:48:35]:

We've got the right intel from a process point of view. So the environment is nurtured enough, ripe enough for it to actually prosper from here. I think if you look at all the elements that you need in order to drive growth, we've got all the ingredients, it's all there. I mean, those excuses around, no, we don't have the right technology skills, we don't have this and that. It cannot be true. I mean, this day and age, you never gonna implement a new logistic solution without technology. I mean, all customers, all brands that are active in Africa, in South Africa, all of them, every warehouse that they opening, minimum requirements is a technology platform. So the gap is not as big as people make it out to be.

Thato Moloi [00:49:20]:

The environment is ready.

Scott W. Luton [00:49:21]:

I love it. Africa is ready for business. Thato declares. I love that. And hey, every part of the world has plenty of opportunities, right? And we all have room for continuous improvement, right? But Africa is ready for business. I love that. And I love the progress each of you all were speaking about earlier with whether it's related to infrastructure, whether it's related to the load shedding in particular, that's big, that's a big gain. Whether it's related to the skill sets and the workforce efforts that continue to build the free trade progress that's been made amongst all the various countries across the african continent.

Scott W. Luton [00:49:54]:

Very, very exciting. One last thing, MJ, before I come to you. My dear friend Mark Preston told me something long ago because Thato was talking about finger pointing, right? And the dangers of finger pointing. Mark told me one time that whenever you point fingers, you got three more pointing back at you. And that's always stuck with me in so many ways. So be careful when it comes to pointing those fingers. All right, MJ, Vanya and Thato, what would you add to all of that? MJ?

MJ Schoemaker [00:50:22]:

Well, I think, I think, you know, I said in the beginning of this podcast, we have some young people sitting here and giving us their insights and giving us a sense of where the african continent is going. And we have to remember the african continent is mostly young people, we have a very young population. If you look at Europe, you know, there's a skills shortage because everyone's retiring. Well, no one's retiring on the african continent. We're all young. You know, if you go across to any of the african countries, you will not find a telephone attached to a wall. Everybody has a cell phone. So the whole infrastructure, the way it has been set up and the mindset of the people is, you know, if something's not working for me, I'm going to find an idea and I'm going to to make it happen.

MJ Schoemaker [00:51:05]:

So I think there's a great attitude across the continent of Africa, we have young people that are just dying to get going, you know, infrastructure, you heard there's a lot of good things happening, and that's not just in South Africa, but it's across the continent as well. I think the african continent is very competitive. We have all our natural resources, which a lot of other countries do not have. I think the one thing that the african continent does need to do is to translate those raw materials into product instead of sending them out and then bringing them back in again. But that's an opportunity, that's a cost. Why are we exporting raw materials, having them put together somewhere else and coming back as a product? Why don't we make it? And that's a huge opportunity. So Africa is here to stay. I think I said that in one of your other podcasts, Africa is here to stay.

MJ Schoemaker [00:51:51]:

And I think investment must come in before we get investments potentially that we don't want on the continent. I think Europeans especially, I think I would love to invite them. I know that they're coming in. They're flowing in here to invest in this content because there's money to be made, and that's why people will come. They want to make the money. And as long as we use the local people, I'm happy about that.

Scott W. Luton [00:52:13]:

Oh, man. I'm ready to run through the wall behind me after last of y'all's responses, all three of y'all's responses there. And just to call something out, the manufacturing space is one of my favorite things to talk about, to investigate, to interview folks around. It's where I spent a good chunk of my career in the manufacturing space. And I completely echo what all three of you all, but especially MJ, you've kind of spiked the football, brought that point home. The opportunity to build manufacturing creates wealth in any part of the world. And the opportunities that countries across Africa have to build and transform their economies and continue to fuel innovation and progress and transformation. Bye.

Scott W. Luton [00:52:52]:

Growing its manufacturing base. Oh, the opportunities. Oh, the opportunities. So, with all of that said, we'll have to talk more about that next episode. What I want to do as we start to wrap is I want to make sure folks know how to connect with all three of y'all. I bet you'll have folks reach out. Want to connect with you on LinkedIn. Want to learn more about your presentations, about your leadership plans, a lot, about your supply chain prowess and more.

Scott W. Luton [00:53:14]:

So I want to start with Thato Moloi, area head for contract logistics for southern Africa and islands at Maersk. How can folks connect with you? Thato?

Thato Moloi [00:53:24]:

So the easiest way to connect with me, definitely through LinkedIn. If you just search Thatom Loyi, I'm sure I will definitely pop up there. So if you can just drop me a private message and I will definitely respond.

Scott W. Luton [00:53:37]:

Awesome. It's just that easy. And congrats again on president elect for Safix. Looking forward to talking a lot more with you in the months ahead of and then moving over and really enjoyed. By the way, Thato, your perspective here. Don't worry, when you knock out that marathon, reach back out. We got to see proof where it didn't happen. Okay, Fania Jansen, managing director with opt to grow.

Scott W. Luton [00:54:02]:

Congrats again on your new venture. I look forward to seeing the heights you go. How can folks connect with you? Fania?

Vanya Jansen [00:54:08]:

Thanks. Great. So also LinkedIn, Vanya Jansen, you'll find me on LinkedIn. Alternatively, you can pop me a mail. It's vanyaptigrowconsult co dot Z.

Scott W. Luton [00:54:23]:

It's just that easy, folks. And again, if y'all want to learn more about the well received popular presentation that Vanya made at the Safix conference, reach out to her, and that'd be a great conversation. Vanya, really appreciate what you shared here today.

Vanya Jansen [00:54:37]:

Thanks.

Scott W. Luton [00:54:37]:

And MJ, you get the final question. Of course. We want to make sure folks know how to connect with you and all the cool things you're up to. But as you think through our whole conversation here today, we covered a lot of ground and it really is invigorating. I found to be invigorating what all three of you all shared here today. What was one of your favorite takeaways, one of your favorite parts of today's conversation, MJ?

MJ Schoemaker [00:55:00]:

Well, what kept popping in my head was multi dimensional operations. So this was a theme, actually, that we had at the conference. And we had an exec summit on the side as well, where we talked about how operations can't work without all the other elements. And it's exactly what Thato spoke to. You know, we can't work in silos. We need finance, we need marketing, we need sales. We need all of them to come together and work together as one team to drive success. So, and it sounds, you know, this came up in the seventies, I think, multidimensional.

MJ Schoemaker [00:55:29]:

And we sort of refreshing it because we're saying we're not doing it and working in a horizontal way across. Of course, everybody has their job to do, but don't have KPI's that are in contradiction to the next department, right? So I have to produce as much as I can, but the department next to what can't sell it, and they're stuck with the inventory, you know, and we know that inventory is something that is not big on the agenda anymore because now it's not just in time, it's just in case because we have so much disruption. But if you have that multidimensional operation, you'll have that transparency, you'll have the right conversations, and you'll also have the right leadership. By default, that will happen.

Scott W. Luton [00:56:05]:

Love that. What a great thought to wrap up on. You got to break down those silos, folks. Go become a silo buster. To put in layman's terms, eloquence that MJ was sharing there. Love that. MJ Schoemaker, president of the board at Safix, really appreciate you not just being here today, but much more importantly, all the action oriented leadership that you've contributed, not just to sapiens, but to global supply chain industry for years now. I really appreciate you being here, MJ Schoemaker.

MJ Schoemaker [00:56:36]:

Thank you. Thank you Scott, thanks for inviting me. And, yeah, I'm also on LinkedIn like everybody else, also, you know, work in a similar space as Vanya. More on the people, process, technology. So reach out, Vanya. You and I might even end up working together. You never know. So, our last ship.

MJ Schoemaker [00:56:52]:

There you go. So. But thank you, Scott, for inviting us here. I think it's been a great conversation, and I'm really looking forward to seeing Thato's comrades medal, but not just that, to see how. How all those mass containers are going to be floating across the ocean without any delays. And Vanya, really wishing you plenty of success. I think you've really hit the nail on the head when it comes to the soften side of leadership and how you run an organization in such a way that everyone pulls on the same rope. And that's really what we need in times of change.

Scott W. Luton [00:57:24]:

That is right. Well said, MJ. Really appreciate you helping us to facilitate today's conversation. Big thanks to MJ and Thato and Vanya for all being here. And on that note, folks, hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I have. I got my 18 pages of notes here today. And, you know, Africa is certainly ready for business. As Thato said earlier, the time is now.

Scott W. Luton [00:57:48]:

Or as MJ said, Africa's coming. It's already here, and the sky's the limit. Maybe the outer space is a limit, I'll tell you, with what's going on across Africa. But regardless, folks, here's a challenge. Again, hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I have. But take one thing that Thato or MJ or Vanya shared here today and put it into practice, right? Share it with the team. Your team's ready to change how business is done and the fact that's what it's going to take in the months and years ahead. And it's all about deeds, not words, right? Don't talk about it.

Scott W. Luton [00:58:20]:

Let's do it. So with all that said on behalf of the supply chain now, team Scott Luton challenging you do good, give forward, be the change that's needed, and we'll see you next time right back here at Supply Chain Now. Thanks, everybody.

Narrator [00:58:33]:

Thanks for being a part of our Supply Chain Now community. Check out all of our programming at supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain Now.