1 00:00:00,250 --> 00:00:02,583 Welcome to the VP Life Podcast, the show 2 00:00:02,583 --> 00:00:04,041 where we bring you actionable health 3 00:00:04,041 --> 00:00:05,375 advice from leading minds. 4 00:00:06,291 --> 00:00:07,250 I'm your host, Rob. 5 00:00:07,875 --> 00:00:09,833 My guest today is Cheryl Dunn, Managing 6 00:00:09,833 --> 00:00:11,500 Director and the founder of Nationwide 7 00:00:11,500 --> 00:00:14,000 Pathology, a UCAS-accredited private 8 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,291 laboratory she launched back in 2011 9 00:00:16,291 --> 00:00:17,625 after more than 30 years 10 00:00:17,625 --> 00:00:18,500 in the field of pathology. 11 00:00:19,708 --> 00:00:22,250 Expect to learn why private health care 12 00:00:22,250 --> 00:00:24,166 and blood testing are growing rapidly in 13 00:00:24,166 --> 00:00:26,666 the UK and where the NHS is currently 14 00:00:26,666 --> 00:00:29,500 falling short, how modern pathology labs 15 00:00:29,500 --> 00:00:31,916 operate behind the scenes, from advanced 16 00:00:31,916 --> 00:00:33,916 analyzers to emerging technologies like 17 00:00:33,916 --> 00:00:36,750 AI, and how accessible, preventative 18 00:00:36,750 --> 00:00:39,375 testing can help identify health issues 19 00:00:39,375 --> 00:00:41,666 early and improve long-term outcomes. 20 00:00:42,291 --> 00:00:43,208 Now, on to the 21 00:00:43,208 --> 00:00:44,791 conversation with Cheryl Dunn. 22 00:00:45,125 --> 00:00:45,875 Good afternoon, Cheryl, 23 00:00:45,875 --> 00:00:46,791 and welcome to the podcast. 24 00:00:47,125 --> 00:00:48,250 This is going to be an 25 00:00:48,250 --> 00:00:50,041 interesting show today. 26 00:00:50,041 --> 00:00:51,250 It's something that's 27 00:00:51,250 --> 00:00:53,000 definitely new for us in any case. 28 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,291 Of course, we talked about diagnostics 29 00:00:55,291 --> 00:00:58,791 and biomarkers and blood work a fair 30 00:00:58,791 --> 00:01:00,375 amount in the past, but we've never 31 00:01:00,375 --> 00:01:03,625 really, I suppose, taken a dive of any 32 00:01:03,625 --> 00:01:07,000 depth into what your side of the industry 33 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,750 is like and what makes it tick and why 34 00:01:09,750 --> 00:01:11,916 private health care, I suppose, is 35 00:01:11,916 --> 00:01:13,125 growing at the rate that it is. 36 00:01:13,791 --> 00:01:15,625 So, yeah, this is a conversation I'm 37 00:01:15,625 --> 00:01:20,291 excited to share with the listeners and 38 00:01:20,291 --> 00:01:21,625 your audience as well. 39 00:01:22,250 --> 00:01:25,125 In any case, before we dive into what 40 00:01:25,125 --> 00:01:27,666 makes a pathology service tick, would you 41 00:01:27,666 --> 00:01:30,291 mind introducing yourself, who you are, 42 00:01:30,291 --> 00:01:31,833 what you do, all that good stuff? 43 00:01:32,458 --> 00:01:34,208 Yeah, my name is Cheryl Dunn. 44 00:01:34,833 --> 00:01:38,750 I am a biomedical scientist by trade and 45 00:01:38,750 --> 00:01:41,333 have been for quite a long time, worked 46 00:01:41,333 --> 00:01:44,875 in the NHS and the private industry for 47 00:01:44,875 --> 00:01:46,875 40 plus years, which 48 00:01:46,875 --> 00:01:48,500 is a bit scary nowadays. 49 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,500 So, yeah, so I started Nationwide Volley 50 00:01:53,500 --> 00:01:59,125 in 2011 and I'm currently MD and 51 00:01:59,125 --> 00:02:01,958 laboratory director of that company. 52 00:02:03,375 --> 00:02:06,541 And it's an interesting 53 00:02:06,541 --> 00:02:08,916 industry to be in, definitely. 54 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,625 It's exciting and I still enjoy it. 55 00:02:13,625 --> 00:02:16,833 I know a lot of people look to retire at 56 00:02:16,833 --> 00:02:19,750 points in their life, but I've got no 57 00:02:19,750 --> 00:02:22,166 intention of doing that because it still 58 00:02:22,166 --> 00:02:24,875 really interests me being able to deliver 59 00:02:24,875 --> 00:02:26,083 a pathology service 60 00:02:26,083 --> 00:02:29,000 to people who need it. 61 00:02:29,833 --> 00:02:31,000 Yeah, no, you know what they say? 62 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,625 You don't get old because you don't stop 63 00:02:34,625 --> 00:02:36,000 playing because you get old, you get old 64 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:36,958 because you stop playing. 65 00:02:36,958 --> 00:02:37,625 And I think that rings 66 00:02:37,625 --> 00:02:39,583 true for any profession. 67 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,041 I think the moment you retire, 68 00:02:44,500 --> 00:02:48,708 all the wheels fall off, don't they? 69 00:02:48,708 --> 00:02:50,416 And I think if you keep yourself going 70 00:02:50,416 --> 00:02:52,666 and going, then you're more likely to 71 00:02:52,666 --> 00:02:55,000 sort of age effectively, although that's 72 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,041 probably a different conversation. 73 00:02:57,291 --> 00:02:58,208 What got you into 74 00:02:58,208 --> 00:02:59,958 biomedical science to begin with? 75 00:03:00,875 --> 00:03:02,791 What was your initial sort 76 00:03:02,791 --> 00:03:04,708 of call, I suppose, there? 77 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,833 So originally I actually decided what I 78 00:03:07,833 --> 00:03:09,083 wanted to do when I was at school. 79 00:03:09,625 --> 00:03:14,208 I always loved science, lived in the city 80 00:03:14,208 --> 00:03:18,625 of Birmingham at the time when things by 81 00:03:18,625 --> 00:03:19,791 nudge weren't really 82 00:03:19,791 --> 00:03:23,041 available to me to go to university. 83 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:29,583 My actual family friend was in those days 84 00:03:29,583 --> 00:03:31,416 a medical laboratory scientific officer 85 00:03:31,416 --> 00:03:33,166 in Wales, and she used to take me in the 86 00:03:33,166 --> 00:03:34,208 holidays to the lab. 87 00:03:35,166 --> 00:03:37,291 And I just was really interested in it. 88 00:03:37,500 --> 00:03:40,750 So at the age of 14, I wrote to all the 89 00:03:40,750 --> 00:03:43,666 hospitals and said, when I do my 90 00:03:43,666 --> 00:03:46,125 O-levels, can you give me a job? 91 00:03:47,250 --> 00:03:50,500 And the day in my O-levels came out, I 92 00:03:50,500 --> 00:03:52,916 had some letters come through the post. 93 00:03:53,916 --> 00:03:54,708 That said, would you like 94 00:03:54,708 --> 00:03:55,541 to come from an interview? 95 00:03:56,916 --> 00:03:59,791 So that's really how I started. 96 00:04:00,250 --> 00:04:01,500 I've never done anything 97 00:04:01,500 --> 00:04:03,125 different from that day. 98 00:04:04,375 --> 00:04:05,416 And I definitely 99 00:04:05,416 --> 00:04:07,416 formerly chose the right career. 100 00:04:08,541 --> 00:04:09,041 Fair enough. 101 00:04:09,041 --> 00:04:10,125 Well, I suppose that's 102 00:04:10,125 --> 00:04:12,000 quite fortuitous, one might say. 103 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,750 OK, so let's dive into it. 104 00:04:15,833 --> 00:04:17,916 And maybe a bit of an odd place to start 105 00:04:17,916 --> 00:04:20,875 talking, to start off with. 106 00:04:21,250 --> 00:04:22,666 But how did you get 107 00:04:22,666 --> 00:04:24,500 nationwide off the ground? 108 00:04:25,083 --> 00:04:25,666 You mentioned you 109 00:04:25,666 --> 00:04:27,375 started the company in 2011. 110 00:04:28,125 --> 00:04:30,916 Now, color me curious, but I suppose how 111 00:04:30,916 --> 00:04:32,666 does one start a pathology lab? 112 00:04:32,666 --> 00:04:34,625 I mean, there are plenty of us who've got 113 00:04:34,625 --> 00:04:36,833 centrifuges, microscopes and stains 114 00:04:36,833 --> 00:04:38,000 floating around sort of 115 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,000 under the kitchen sink at home. 116 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,291 Maybe that's just me 117 00:04:41,291 --> 00:04:42,750 actually, come to think of it. 118 00:04:43,166 --> 00:04:45,916 But yeah, how did you sort of go from 119 00:04:45,916 --> 00:04:47,500 this private sector? 120 00:04:47,500 --> 00:04:50,333 I think you were in the NHS as well to 121 00:04:50,333 --> 00:04:52,208 then getting nationwide off the ground. 122 00:04:52,458 --> 00:04:54,625 I reckon it's probably quite the endeavor 123 00:04:54,625 --> 00:04:56,125 to begin with at least. 124 00:04:56,958 --> 00:04:57,625 Yeah, definitely. 125 00:04:58,833 --> 00:05:00,000 As I say, I've always 126 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:00,916 been really passionate. 127 00:05:01,208 --> 00:05:04,083 I worked in managed private lab for 20 128 00:05:04,083 --> 00:05:05,750 years and worked with him after the NHS. 129 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,791 And when it's not your company, I wasn't 130 00:05:10,791 --> 00:05:11,708 going in the direction 131 00:05:11,708 --> 00:05:14,750 that I thought we could go in. 132 00:05:15,833 --> 00:05:16,708 And that's difficult when 133 00:05:16,708 --> 00:05:17,708 you're not your own boss. 134 00:05:18,708 --> 00:05:21,458 So there were lots of conversations and a 135 00:05:21,458 --> 00:05:23,375 lot of people said to me, you should be 136 00:05:23,375 --> 00:05:24,416 doing this on your own. 137 00:05:24,416 --> 00:05:25,750 You've got some really good ideas. 138 00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:27,833 But financially, to set 139 00:05:27,833 --> 00:05:29,583 up a lab is very difficult. 140 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,875 So as a family, we took a real risk. 141 00:05:34,166 --> 00:05:36,250 We basically put everything on the line 142 00:05:36,250 --> 00:05:38,375 and thought, if we're going to go for 143 00:05:38,375 --> 00:05:41,875 this and do the things that we want to 144 00:05:41,875 --> 00:05:44,041 do, then we'll do it. 145 00:05:44,250 --> 00:05:46,208 And really, I've set up the lab with 146 00:05:46,208 --> 00:05:49,375 machinery from some companies that I've 147 00:05:49,375 --> 00:05:50,625 been involved with over the years. 148 00:05:51,458 --> 00:05:55,125 They took a risk on what I believed in 149 00:05:55,125 --> 00:05:58,458 and sat in a room with a load of 150 00:05:58,458 --> 00:06:00,041 equipment on my own and 151 00:06:00,041 --> 00:06:01,708 waited for the phone to ring. 152 00:06:01,958 --> 00:06:03,458 And that's where we started. 153 00:06:04,666 --> 00:06:06,083 And we just went from 154 00:06:06,083 --> 00:06:06,833 strength to strength. 155 00:06:07,291 --> 00:06:09,666 I think I knew the industry very well. 156 00:06:09,958 --> 00:06:14,416 So when what people wanted and we've 157 00:06:14,416 --> 00:06:18,000 developed into the company we are now, 158 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,875 it's still very family. 159 00:06:22,166 --> 00:06:25,333 We try to treat all our stuff 160 00:06:25,333 --> 00:06:26,708 like it's a family environment. 161 00:06:27,541 --> 00:06:29,041 We haven't sold out to anyone. 162 00:06:29,583 --> 00:06:31,708 My husband and I are the sole directors. 163 00:06:33,166 --> 00:06:36,625 And we get excited 164 00:06:36,625 --> 00:06:38,250 about what we can deliver. 165 00:06:38,541 --> 00:06:39,375 We've moved. 166 00:06:40,125 --> 00:06:42,125 This is our third move and hopefully our 167 00:06:42,125 --> 00:06:44,500 final move to the premises right now. 168 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,000 And it is difficult. 169 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:47,750 It's difficult whatever 170 00:06:47,750 --> 00:06:50,125 business you start up in. 171 00:06:50,375 --> 00:06:52,041 I think you just have to really believe 172 00:06:52,041 --> 00:06:56,958 in what you're delivering to keep going. 173 00:06:57,291 --> 00:06:58,333 But, you know, there are late 174 00:06:58,333 --> 00:07:00,000 nights or still late nights. 175 00:07:00,250 --> 00:07:03,625 People think, you know, you have this 176 00:07:03,625 --> 00:07:06,375 fantastic life when you've got a business 177 00:07:06,375 --> 00:07:08,791 that is doing well and actually the 178 00:07:08,791 --> 00:07:11,500 effort that goes in behind the scenes is 179 00:07:11,500 --> 00:07:13,291 a lot more than people realize. 180 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,000 People don't, whoever in business don't 181 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,083 have holidays, they might go on holidays. 182 00:07:19,125 --> 00:07:20,458 They ultimately think about 183 00:07:20,458 --> 00:07:22,625 work or do work constantly. 184 00:07:23,500 --> 00:07:24,791 And I'm happy with that. 185 00:07:24,791 --> 00:07:26,458 So I think we're doing the right thing 186 00:07:26,458 --> 00:07:30,458 and I get great enjoyment in seeing the 187 00:07:30,458 --> 00:07:33,375 people we help through offering the 188 00:07:33,375 --> 00:07:34,416 service that we offer. 189 00:07:35,708 --> 00:07:36,000 Yeah. 190 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,833 No, I think your first business is always 191 00:07:38,833 --> 00:07:40,750 about fundamentally learning business as 192 00:07:40,750 --> 00:07:41,708 much as it is sort of 193 00:07:41,708 --> 00:07:42,541 delivering the product. 194 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,958 Just to speak to what you've just said. 195 00:07:46,291 --> 00:07:50,000 And yeah, it's a labor of 196 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:50,916 love at the end of the day. 197 00:07:51,125 --> 00:07:52,375 You can't sort of go into 198 00:07:52,375 --> 00:07:54,375 entrepreneurship and 199 00:07:54,375 --> 00:07:55,500 expect it to be easy. 200 00:07:56,375 --> 00:07:58,250 And as you've no doubt sort of picked up 201 00:07:58,250 --> 00:08:01,708 along the way, I think business is 202 00:08:01,708 --> 00:08:06,541 fundamentally the game of solving both 203 00:08:06,541 --> 00:08:08,375 your problems and other people's problems 204 00:08:08,375 --> 00:08:10,625 as they arrive and as they arise. 205 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,375 It's kind of a combination of creating a 206 00:08:13,375 --> 00:08:14,583 really good product and a really good 207 00:08:14,583 --> 00:08:16,333 service, figuring out how to sell it and 208 00:08:16,333 --> 00:08:18,125 then putting up fires on the back end. 209 00:08:20,208 --> 00:08:23,250 In any case, when you sort of in the 210 00:08:23,250 --> 00:08:25,125 early days, were you sort of running 211 00:08:25,125 --> 00:08:27,000 most, were you doing most analytical? 212 00:08:27,416 --> 00:08:29,666 Can were you running the labs and on and 213 00:08:29,666 --> 00:08:30,666 all of that side of it? 214 00:08:30,666 --> 00:08:30,875 Yeah. 215 00:08:31,041 --> 00:08:33,291 So I did all of the testing in the 216 00:08:33,291 --> 00:08:36,000 beginning and all of the admin work. 217 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,333 And, you know, eventually as we got 218 00:08:39,333 --> 00:08:41,708 busier and busier, we brought people in 219 00:08:41,708 --> 00:08:43,291 to help all those sides. 220 00:08:44,375 --> 00:08:45,875 Obviously, you need someone to answer the 221 00:08:45,875 --> 00:08:47,291 phone or you can put resorts. 222 00:08:48,666 --> 00:08:52,291 So we just grew organically, customer 223 00:08:52,291 --> 00:08:53,625 wise and staff wise. 224 00:08:54,500 --> 00:08:56,083 And we've got some staff that have been 225 00:08:56,083 --> 00:08:57,916 with us for nearly the 226 00:08:57,916 --> 00:08:59,916 duration of that time. 227 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,250 And it helps that I was on the ground. 228 00:09:05,250 --> 00:09:07,708 I know how it started and I can do 229 00:09:07,708 --> 00:09:09,666 everything that I expect 230 00:09:09,666 --> 00:09:11,000 everyone else to do now. 231 00:09:11,958 --> 00:09:13,916 And, you know, we've got children 232 00:09:13,916 --> 00:09:16,375 involved who are now part of the business 233 00:09:16,375 --> 00:09:17,333 and they all work 234 00:09:17,333 --> 00:09:18,541 their way from the bottom. 235 00:09:18,833 --> 00:09:21,083 So we all sort of learn everything. 236 00:09:21,791 --> 00:09:23,166 So you don't, you know, how long 237 00:09:23,166 --> 00:09:25,083 something takes and you know what you're 238 00:09:25,083 --> 00:09:26,416 expecting somebody to do. 239 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:27,666 Yeah. 240 00:09:27,875 --> 00:09:28,833 That's amazing. 241 00:09:29,333 --> 00:09:31,791 And I can just speak to the quality of 242 00:09:31,791 --> 00:09:32,541 the staff that you have. 243 00:09:32,541 --> 00:09:34,583 Not that this is an ad, especially, but 244 00:09:34,583 --> 00:09:36,041 you really do have amazing staff. 245 00:09:37,041 --> 00:09:37,958 You mentioned recently 246 00:09:37,958 --> 00:09:38,958 that you've moved again. 247 00:09:39,166 --> 00:09:40,166 Is this sort of a final 248 00:09:40,166 --> 00:09:42,083 and that being a final move? 249 00:09:42,541 --> 00:09:43,333 Is that just sort of 250 00:09:43,333 --> 00:09:45,041 from a point of expansion? 251 00:09:45,416 --> 00:09:47,083 Have you got new units in? 252 00:09:47,791 --> 00:09:49,000 Is that sort of the 253 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:50,000 reason for the move or? 254 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,958 So basically we've grown to labs, 255 00:09:54,416 --> 00:10:00,500 Dinto and an opportunity came up actually 256 00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:03,000 where we live at the moment 257 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,375 where there was an empty bar. 258 00:10:05,583 --> 00:10:07,208 And to make life easier, 259 00:10:08,291 --> 00:10:10,583 we thought we might as well convert this 260 00:10:10,583 --> 00:10:13,375 building into a purpose built lab, which 261 00:10:13,375 --> 00:10:16,708 meant that we could have windows where we 262 00:10:16,708 --> 00:10:19,375 wanted them and we could look after our 263 00:10:19,375 --> 00:10:20,958 staff better, give 264 00:10:20,958 --> 00:10:22,500 them a better environment. 265 00:10:23,166 --> 00:10:25,833 It's also four times the size of the lab 266 00:10:25,833 --> 00:10:27,541 we move from the space. 267 00:10:28,625 --> 00:10:30,000 And we thought we'd have loads of room, 268 00:10:30,250 --> 00:10:32,666 but actually nine months later, it's 269 00:10:32,666 --> 00:10:33,833 absolutely jump packed. 270 00:10:34,041 --> 00:10:34,333 Right. 271 00:10:34,583 --> 00:10:36,250 Be looking for more space. 272 00:10:36,583 --> 00:10:37,583 But I think it is a 273 00:10:37,583 --> 00:10:39,291 permanent site where we are. 274 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,333 We're in an ideal location right in the 275 00:10:42,333 --> 00:10:43,166 middle of the country. 276 00:10:43,916 --> 00:10:46,333 M1, M6, Cogdoor. 277 00:10:46,958 --> 00:10:48,291 We've got a train line to 278 00:10:48,291 --> 00:10:50,000 London that's 55 minutes. 279 00:10:51,541 --> 00:10:54,541 So we're well sat actually that we don't 280 00:10:54,541 --> 00:10:58,458 get those snarls of samples trying to get 281 00:10:58,458 --> 00:11:00,875 to us, even though we're not in London or 282 00:11:00,875 --> 00:11:02,958 not in this big city. 283 00:11:03,708 --> 00:11:05,625 It works really well for us. 284 00:11:06,625 --> 00:11:07,000 Fair enough. 285 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,916 Yeah, I suppose having a background in 286 00:11:10,916 --> 00:11:13,000 biomedical science has 287 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,083 definitely helped you. 288 00:11:15,125 --> 00:11:16,416 Do you think that that 289 00:11:16,416 --> 00:11:19,000 training sort of, I suppose, 290 00:11:20,083 --> 00:11:22,375 really, I suppose it did actually help 291 00:11:22,375 --> 00:11:23,208 you get established. 292 00:11:23,416 --> 00:11:26,291 Is this something that someone would, 293 00:11:26,833 --> 00:11:27,875 without your background, could 294 00:11:27,875 --> 00:11:28,916 potentially get into as 295 00:11:28,916 --> 00:11:30,333 well, setting up a pathology lab? 296 00:11:31,625 --> 00:11:33,166 Or do you think you need that technical 297 00:11:33,166 --> 00:11:34,791 experience if you maybe don't have a 298 00:11:34,791 --> 00:11:37,000 technical partner off the bat to help? 299 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,125 I think you definitely do need a 300 00:11:39,125 --> 00:11:41,916 technical experience in the field, 301 00:11:41,916 --> 00:11:44,708 whether that's you implore somebody to do 302 00:11:44,708 --> 00:11:46,708 that part of it or not. 303 00:11:46,958 --> 00:11:49,208 But I think it helps. 304 00:11:49,208 --> 00:11:51,666 I think there are some labs that set up 305 00:11:51,666 --> 00:11:53,750 in Covid and Covid was a test. 306 00:11:54,666 --> 00:11:57,500 And that's one test, one lot for this 307 00:11:57,500 --> 00:11:59,958 control, one lot of results that can 308 00:11:59,958 --> 00:12:01,083 possibly go wrong or 309 00:12:01,083 --> 00:12:02,000 there's issues with it. 310 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,375 When you're actually into the rounds of 311 00:12:05,375 --> 00:12:08,166 having a private pathology lab, there are 312 00:12:08,166 --> 00:12:09,916 hundreds of tests you are doing. 313 00:12:10,708 --> 00:12:12,125 And that's a lot 314 00:12:12,125 --> 00:12:15,458 different to doing one test. 315 00:12:15,458 --> 00:12:17,208 And I think people find that in Covid, 316 00:12:17,208 --> 00:12:18,666 they set up labs to 317 00:12:18,666 --> 00:12:19,916 just do Covid testing. 318 00:12:20,666 --> 00:12:21,416 And then they'll all 319 00:12:21,416 --> 00:12:22,625 delve into this market. 320 00:12:22,875 --> 00:12:24,708 And I think some of them have struggled a 321 00:12:24,708 --> 00:12:26,125 little bit with that concept. 322 00:12:27,416 --> 00:12:29,791 One, because there's a lot of machinery 323 00:12:29,791 --> 00:12:30,916 you need to do these 324 00:12:30,916 --> 00:12:33,000 tests, which is expensive. 325 00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:37,833 You have to have partners that are ready 326 00:12:37,833 --> 00:12:39,666 to put that amount of equipment and 327 00:12:39,666 --> 00:12:41,541 you've got to have the work and volume as 328 00:12:41,541 --> 00:12:43,208 well to cover those costs. 329 00:12:44,083 --> 00:12:46,208 And the quality side is 330 00:12:46,208 --> 00:12:48,083 very difficult as well. 331 00:12:48,083 --> 00:12:50,000 It's expensive and it's very laborious 332 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,000 and it's very technical. 333 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,875 So you need somebody very experienced to 334 00:12:53,875 --> 00:12:57,750 be able to help you with that quality 335 00:12:57,750 --> 00:13:00,416 side of it in your UCAS accreditation. 336 00:13:01,666 --> 00:13:04,166 Yeah, no, that's a perfect segue 337 00:13:04,166 --> 00:13:05,625 actually, because the next thing I wanted 338 00:13:05,625 --> 00:13:08,916 to talk about was UCAS accreditation. 339 00:13:09,791 --> 00:13:10,916 But before we get there, 340 00:13:10,916 --> 00:13:12,000 though, you mentioned Covid. 341 00:13:13,250 --> 00:13:15,166 Maybe the last question I'll ask here, 342 00:13:15,166 --> 00:13:18,083 just regarding the start up here 343 00:13:18,083 --> 00:13:19,625 regarding nationwide. 344 00:13:20,041 --> 00:13:21,250 But how did you sort 345 00:13:21,250 --> 00:13:24,916 of move through Covid? 346 00:13:25,416 --> 00:13:27,833 I assume it had a positive effect on the 347 00:13:27,833 --> 00:13:29,166 business at that time and space. 348 00:13:29,416 --> 00:13:29,875 Definitely. 349 00:13:29,875 --> 00:13:30,875 It was very difficult. 350 00:13:31,208 --> 00:13:33,833 We were all at the point where we didn't 351 00:13:33,833 --> 00:13:34,750 know what was going to happen. 352 00:13:35,041 --> 00:13:38,166 I personally thought we 353 00:13:38,166 --> 00:13:39,750 could all die from this flu. 354 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,708 At the very beginning, it was very scary. 355 00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:49,708 And even though as labs do PCR testing, 356 00:13:49,708 --> 00:13:51,250 that is done, it wasn't 357 00:13:51,250 --> 00:13:52,750 used on a real team basis. 358 00:13:53,625 --> 00:13:55,833 So to be able to facilitate the amount of 359 00:13:55,833 --> 00:14:00,291 testing we did was quite 360 00:14:00,291 --> 00:14:02,750 challenging at the time. 361 00:14:03,291 --> 00:14:05,541 It was really exciting to be in that 362 00:14:05,541 --> 00:14:08,666 world of biomedical science at the time. 363 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,125 We didn't know what was positive or what 364 00:14:12,125 --> 00:14:13,416 was negative necessarily. 365 00:14:13,916 --> 00:14:16,625 We did some of the first Covid testing. 366 00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:18,291 We obviously helped in 367 00:14:18,291 --> 00:14:19,791 that chest, our points. 368 00:14:20,791 --> 00:14:24,291 We did by the end of Covid, we were doing 369 00:14:24,291 --> 00:14:26,416 15,000 Covid tests a day 370 00:14:26,416 --> 00:14:29,500 and sent 15,000 kits out. 371 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:32,625 So it was a big learning curve. 372 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,500 We had to think on the hoof, there were 373 00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:37,875 lots of talks with the government and 374 00:14:37,875 --> 00:14:38,583 other scientists 375 00:14:38,583 --> 00:14:41,833 about how we approach it. 376 00:14:43,083 --> 00:14:45,083 Financially, it was obviously very good 377 00:14:45,083 --> 00:14:47,250 for the labs that did big testing. 378 00:14:47,625 --> 00:14:49,208 And that's probably allowed us to 379 00:14:49,208 --> 00:14:52,291 reinvest into a lot more testing post 380 00:14:52,291 --> 00:14:55,291 Covid, which is the exciting bit. 381 00:14:55,291 --> 00:14:57,875 Because as I said before, to bring new 382 00:14:57,875 --> 00:15:01,333 tests is their expensive bits and pieces. 383 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,083 And you need the capital behind you to be 384 00:15:04,083 --> 00:15:05,791 able to facilitate that testing. 385 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,375 Well, there's always a silver lining. 386 00:15:09,583 --> 00:15:11,500 So in any case, 387 00:15:13,083 --> 00:15:15,208 working in the supplement industry, which 388 00:15:15,208 --> 00:15:16,666 is sort of the background 389 00:15:16,666 --> 00:15:18,541 over here behind the podcast, 390 00:15:19,625 --> 00:15:21,666 I'm fairly familiar with 391 00:15:21,666 --> 00:15:24,000 testing of various sorts. 392 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,041 And I know if you want your products to 393 00:15:28,041 --> 00:15:30,583 stand out in the market and to have any 394 00:15:30,583 --> 00:15:32,875 chance of being taken seriously, they 395 00:15:32,875 --> 00:15:37,000 need to be tested by a UCAS accredited 396 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,958 lab, something you mentioned earlier. 397 00:15:39,458 --> 00:15:41,500 Now, obviously, a 398 00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:42,458 different sort of testing. 399 00:15:43,125 --> 00:15:44,833 But for the audience, would you mind 400 00:15:44,833 --> 00:15:47,375 breaking down what UCAS accreditation is 401 00:15:47,375 --> 00:15:49,041 and then maybe why it's 402 00:15:49,041 --> 00:15:51,541 important to have that as a lab? 403 00:15:52,333 --> 00:15:55,458 UCAS accreditation probably underpins 404 00:15:55,458 --> 00:15:58,208 quality of results you are delivering. 405 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,083 It's changed over the years. 406 00:16:03,458 --> 00:16:06,416 UCAS accreditation some years ago, it 407 00:16:06,416 --> 00:16:08,791 used to be called something 408 00:16:08,791 --> 00:16:11,125 else and they accredited a lab. 409 00:16:11,833 --> 00:16:12,791 Whereas now UCAS 410 00:16:12,791 --> 00:16:16,000 accreditation is on each individual test. 411 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,250 So they come in and they inspect us, but 412 00:16:20,250 --> 00:16:22,000 they go through every part of the 413 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,750 business from recruitment to your 414 00:16:23,750 --> 00:16:27,416 website, to terms and conditions, to them 415 00:16:27,416 --> 00:16:30,125 drilling down to each individual test. 416 00:16:31,125 --> 00:16:33,750 And those individual tests are assessed 417 00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:41,416 on a strict regime according to an 418 00:16:41,416 --> 00:16:44,541 accreditation schedule 419 00:16:44,541 --> 00:16:46,000 that you have to fulfill. 420 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,625 But part of that is that we carry out 421 00:16:50,625 --> 00:16:53,416 internal quality control every day, maybe 422 00:16:53,416 --> 00:16:55,583 testing sometimes twice a day on tests we 423 00:16:55,583 --> 00:16:58,541 do to make sure we're achieving a set 424 00:16:58,541 --> 00:17:01,208 result that we know from an own sample. 425 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,833 And we also take part in 426 00:17:03,833 --> 00:17:05,708 external quality insurance. 427 00:17:06,083 --> 00:17:10,291 So you are it's a blind testing when you 428 00:17:10,291 --> 00:17:13,541 get samples sent to your lab, you test 429 00:17:13,541 --> 00:17:18,791 them, send back and then you all compared 430 00:17:18,791 --> 00:17:21,708 to your peers really. 431 00:17:22,125 --> 00:17:24,583 So there are certainly labs take part to 432 00:17:24,583 --> 00:17:27,708 do, for example, he would go and test and 433 00:17:27,708 --> 00:17:29,541 everyone's compared against each other. 434 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,833 And also you compared against methods 435 00:17:31,833 --> 00:17:34,375 because every method or every different 436 00:17:34,375 --> 00:17:35,208 manufacturer has 437 00:17:35,208 --> 00:17:37,458 slightly different variables. 438 00:17:38,375 --> 00:17:40,416 So you can see whether you're achieving 439 00:17:40,416 --> 00:17:42,375 the same result as all the other Siemens 440 00:17:42,375 --> 00:17:44,166 users in the country. 441 00:17:45,375 --> 00:17:47,416 So internally, it's really good for 442 00:17:47,416 --> 00:17:50,250 quality because you can see instantly 443 00:17:50,250 --> 00:17:52,166 there's something going on with the test 444 00:17:52,166 --> 00:17:55,000 and that might not be at lab level. 445 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,458 That might be a manufacturer level if 446 00:17:57,458 --> 00:18:00,916 they get in old resorts or things are 447 00:18:00,916 --> 00:18:03,666 quite where they'd expect them to be. 448 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,541 So we do that for every test we do. 449 00:18:08,583 --> 00:18:12,166 You have to have specialist people who 450 00:18:12,166 --> 00:18:14,000 can inspect those particular tests and 451 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,416 that's quite challenging for them. 452 00:18:15,416 --> 00:18:17,291 It's a hard job for them to get round all 453 00:18:17,291 --> 00:18:21,291 these labs, and inspect all of 454 00:18:21,291 --> 00:18:22,416 the tests that they're doing. 455 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,083 And that's why sometimes the schedule of 456 00:18:25,083 --> 00:18:28,000 accreditation for labs doesn't cover 457 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,750 every test because sometimes it can take 458 00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:31,625 you two years to get a test on that 459 00:18:31,625 --> 00:18:34,208 schedule, which is quite challenging. 460 00:18:34,666 --> 00:18:37,708 But it's because we've got that medical 461 00:18:37,708 --> 00:18:41,750 level of UCAS accreditation in our lab, 462 00:18:42,166 --> 00:18:45,916 it underpins to our clients that actually 463 00:18:45,916 --> 00:18:49,000 we follow the same protocols for all of 464 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,333 the tests we're doing in-house. 465 00:18:52,291 --> 00:18:53,250 And we follow the same 466 00:18:53,250 --> 00:18:55,416 procedures, so it gives them... 467 00:18:59,125 --> 00:18:59,500 We're sure. 468 00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:02,125 We're sure that we are doing everything 469 00:19:02,125 --> 00:19:03,750 to the best of our 470 00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:05,750 ability of that sample. 471 00:19:06,333 --> 00:19:07,500 But obviously it's difficult. 472 00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:09,458 We're not hospitals, so we haven't got 473 00:19:09,458 --> 00:19:11,083 patients on wards for us. 474 00:19:11,291 --> 00:19:13,375 Our work comes in like careers or post. 475 00:19:14,291 --> 00:19:16,041 So you don't always know what sample, 476 00:19:16,375 --> 00:19:17,333 what's happened to that 477 00:19:17,333 --> 00:19:19,625 sample, wherever it is. 478 00:19:20,083 --> 00:19:20,958 It could be taken 479 00:19:20,958 --> 00:19:22,000 anywhere in the country. 480 00:19:23,458 --> 00:19:25,625 But we do our best to be able to say, 481 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,375 right, on that sample, on that day, this 482 00:19:28,375 --> 00:19:29,750 is the test result we've 483 00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:31,041 achieved, and this is... 484 00:19:32,333 --> 00:19:34,875 We've got all this underlying quality 485 00:19:34,875 --> 00:19:38,000 control that we put in place to say that 486 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:38,750 that's what we've 487 00:19:38,750 --> 00:19:39,750 achieved on that sample. 488 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,333 There is some due diligence required by 489 00:19:44,333 --> 00:19:45,875 the customer, the physician, the 490 00:19:45,875 --> 00:19:48,000 phlebotomist, etc., to make sure that 491 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,875 samples and specimens are obviously 492 00:19:51,875 --> 00:19:53,583 labeled accordingly. 493 00:19:53,875 --> 00:19:56,166 So you can then make a calculated 494 00:19:56,166 --> 00:19:58,125 decision on whether that sample is still 495 00:19:58,125 --> 00:20:00,333 viable when it arrives at the lab. 496 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,208 I think ultimately what this 497 00:20:03,208 --> 00:20:05,416 accreditation seems to provide is just 498 00:20:05,416 --> 00:20:07,500 consistency with regards to test 499 00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:10,375 specificity and sensitivity across just 500 00:20:10,375 --> 00:20:11,875 all, as you mentioned, 501 00:20:12,125 --> 00:20:14,166 labs and machines and units. 502 00:20:14,583 --> 00:20:17,750 And so, I mean, that's the fact that 503 00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:19,000 you've got it obviously just speaks 504 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,625 volumes to the type of 505 00:20:20,625 --> 00:20:21,458 service that you're running. 506 00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:22,875 So that's incredible. 507 00:20:24,375 --> 00:20:27,333 Joe, I'd love to switch gears a bit and 508 00:20:27,333 --> 00:20:30,083 then I suppose talk about maybe what 509 00:20:30,083 --> 00:20:32,708 makes Nationwide a little 510 00:20:32,708 --> 00:20:33,666 different from the norm. 511 00:20:34,250 --> 00:20:38,500 Now, starting off, how's your lab set up 512 00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:39,333 in terms of equipment? 513 00:20:40,291 --> 00:20:41,708 I reckon you've probably got a little 514 00:20:41,708 --> 00:20:43,500 more than I do stored under the kitchen 515 00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:44,458 sink and in the room closet. 516 00:20:45,291 --> 00:20:46,000 Yes, definitely. 517 00:20:46,250 --> 00:20:49,500 We've got a massive amount of equipment. 518 00:20:50,083 --> 00:20:52,416 We try and do as much as we can in-house 519 00:20:52,416 --> 00:20:54,416 and if we don't, if we've got a demand 520 00:20:54,416 --> 00:21:00,000 for it, we get some equipment in that we 521 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,000 can do those tests on. 522 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,375 Obviously, every test is done on 523 00:21:04,375 --> 00:21:05,166 different equipment. 524 00:21:05,375 --> 00:21:09,083 Our core equipment is Siemens Atelica 525 00:21:09,083 --> 00:21:11,458 analyzers and we do 526 00:21:11,458 --> 00:21:12,916 our routine biochemistry, 527 00:21:13,958 --> 00:21:15,750 our immunology on 528 00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:19,000 those mainline machines. 529 00:21:20,291 --> 00:21:22,166 That's quite an automated system. 530 00:21:22,375 --> 00:21:25,208 We've got a new bit of equipment, which 531 00:21:25,208 --> 00:21:27,833 is a track system that joins all those 532 00:21:27,833 --> 00:21:30,208 analyzers together, which 533 00:21:30,208 --> 00:21:31,666 makes us more efficient. 534 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,000 But there are lots of companies that 535 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:40,000 we've got equipment for in the lab. 536 00:21:40,375 --> 00:21:43,500 We've got LCMS, we've got PCR machines, 537 00:21:43,958 --> 00:21:47,083 we've got electrophoresis machines, 538 00:21:47,833 --> 00:21:49,458 hematology analyzers, 539 00:21:51,208 --> 00:21:55,541 and certain analyzers 540 00:21:55,541 --> 00:21:56,000 do different things. 541 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,958 We've got an immuno light that 542 00:21:57,958 --> 00:22:00,333 we've run allergy testing on. 543 00:22:00,708 --> 00:22:03,583 We also do IgE and IgG allergy. 544 00:22:05,375 --> 00:22:09,166 There's a lot of equipment and hopefully 545 00:22:09,166 --> 00:22:11,125 our website will be updated soon and 546 00:22:11,125 --> 00:22:13,208 people will see the pictures of the new 547 00:22:13,208 --> 00:22:15,000 lab and see actually what 548 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,416 it looks like inside of them. 549 00:22:17,333 --> 00:22:19,583 I suppose all your machines are 550 00:22:19,583 --> 00:22:20,458 constantly calibrated. 551 00:22:20,750 --> 00:22:24,041 Does this account for drift within your 552 00:22:24,041 --> 00:22:25,166 mass spec machines and 553 00:22:25,166 --> 00:22:26,166 things like that as well? 554 00:22:27,541 --> 00:22:29,875 Everything is calibrated, everything is 555 00:22:29,875 --> 00:22:32,833 close to controlled every day and 556 00:22:32,833 --> 00:22:33,958 sometimes twice a day. 557 00:22:34,125 --> 00:22:38,000 Sometimes we do the morning and we do an 558 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,000 afternoon callers to control and run on 559 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,000 our most common tests. 560 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,916 Okay, that's impressive to say the least. 561 00:22:48,041 --> 00:22:48,666 And to be honest, it 562 00:22:48,666 --> 00:22:49,958 sounds like my idea of heaven. 563 00:22:50,791 --> 00:22:52,458 Maybe a bit of a technical question, but 564 00:22:52,458 --> 00:22:55,000 are you doing any sort of ultra sensitive 565 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,541 hormone testing using 566 00:22:56,541 --> 00:23:00,000 LCMS, MS, anything like that? 567 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,291 Obviously you get different sort of 568 00:23:02,291 --> 00:23:03,875 assays or test types of 569 00:23:03,875 --> 00:23:06,333 audience looking at hormones. 570 00:23:06,583 --> 00:23:08,458 Maybe as an example, you get ultra 571 00:23:08,458 --> 00:23:10,625 sensitive estradiol, for example, versus 572 00:23:10,625 --> 00:23:13,166 just an immune based assay. 573 00:23:14,208 --> 00:23:17,541 Are you looking at these ultra sensitive? 574 00:23:17,541 --> 00:23:18,291 Are you offering these 575 00:23:18,291 --> 00:23:19,666 ultra sensitive tests yet? 576 00:23:20,125 --> 00:23:22,458 Or are they more just 577 00:23:22,458 --> 00:23:23,000 sort of run of the mill? 578 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,541 We 579 00:23:24,541 --> 00:23:25,625 will be. 580 00:23:25,625 --> 00:23:29,833 We've just invested in LCMS because we 581 00:23:29,833 --> 00:23:35,083 recognize that hormones, testosterone and 582 00:23:35,083 --> 00:23:36,916 estradiols are much 583 00:23:36,916 --> 00:23:38,416 more accurate on LCMS. 584 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,166 And that's something we've just put in 585 00:23:41,166 --> 00:23:44,291 and we'll be launching in the next month 586 00:23:44,291 --> 00:23:47,875 also to offer our menopause clinics and 587 00:23:47,875 --> 00:23:49,625 our testosterone and plasma therapy 588 00:23:49,625 --> 00:23:53,000 clinics a more accurate way of testing. 589 00:23:54,125 --> 00:23:55,333 And that's something that I'm really 590 00:23:55,333 --> 00:23:56,000 interested in at the moment. 591 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:56,958 Oh, 592 00:23:57,416 --> 00:23:59,333 also nice music to my ears because yeah, 593 00:23:59,333 --> 00:24:02,541 working with the old client and yeah, the 594 00:24:02,541 --> 00:24:04,750 moment they have, they're on any form of 595 00:24:04,750 --> 00:24:08,000 HRT, obviously those sort of, yeah, let's 596 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,000 call them traditional sort of tests tend 597 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,041 to be less reliable. 598 00:24:11,458 --> 00:24:13,458 So I'm really glad to hear that because 599 00:24:13,458 --> 00:24:15,541 yeah, that is definitely USP. 600 00:24:15,541 --> 00:24:16,208 I can't think of many 601 00:24:16,208 --> 00:24:17,458 labs who offer that. 602 00:24:18,666 --> 00:24:20,000 So that's exciting to hear. 603 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:20,958 Right. 604 00:24:22,208 --> 00:24:25,833 So recently I went to my GP to get some 605 00:24:25,833 --> 00:24:28,000 blood thrown and believe it or not, I 606 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,333 actually managed to get 607 00:24:29,333 --> 00:24:30,500 them to run serum copper, 608 00:24:31,541 --> 00:24:32,458 which surprised me. 609 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,625 Normally, that's a bit of a juggling act. 610 00:24:35,875 --> 00:24:37,625 And yeah, I got cross 611 00:24:37,625 --> 00:24:39,000 question for an hour beforehand. 612 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,125 But yeah, all came back except the 613 00:24:43,125 --> 00:24:44,666 copper, which I was told would 614 00:24:44,666 --> 00:24:46,208 take a few weeks to get done. 615 00:24:47,041 --> 00:24:49,000 That that's kind of stumped me to be a 616 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,333 bit honest, I must admit as I believe you 617 00:24:51,333 --> 00:24:52,833 correct me if I'm wrong, I think most 618 00:24:52,833 --> 00:24:54,458 minerals are just sort of analyzed 619 00:24:54,458 --> 00:24:58,000 through atomic absorption spectroscopy. 620 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,625 Again, I'm probably just very naive here, 621 00:25:01,625 --> 00:25:05,000 but that strikes me as a bit strange that 622 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,583 as sort of a government based institution 623 00:25:07,583 --> 00:25:10,125 doesn't have sort of regular 624 00:25:10,125 --> 00:25:13,000 access to this sort of kit. 625 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,666 Anyway, I suppose an actual question 626 00:25:15,666 --> 00:25:16,791 which sort of goes back 627 00:25:16,791 --> 00:25:18,041 to when I asked previously, 628 00:25:19,250 --> 00:25:21,125 how does a private lab like yours differ 629 00:25:21,125 --> 00:25:25,750 from a traditional NHS setup and yeah, 630 00:25:26,041 --> 00:25:28,458 what you've already discussed or well, 631 00:25:28,458 --> 00:25:30,500 I've mentioned off likely fairly limited. 632 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:36,708 I think NHS pathways are different. 633 00:25:37,250 --> 00:25:40,125 And I think you've encountered that when 634 00:25:40,125 --> 00:25:41,750 you go to GP and you want particular 635 00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:44,291 tests that isn't in an NHS pathway or you 636 00:25:44,291 --> 00:25:47,000 don't fit the criteria for that test. 637 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,041 So a lot of NHS labs don't have that 638 00:25:50,041 --> 00:25:51,750 specialized testing and they're not often 639 00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:53,666 used referral labs for that. 640 00:25:54,250 --> 00:25:57,041 How we differ is we try to off all of 641 00:25:57,041 --> 00:25:58,166 that and do what roof. 642 00:25:59,125 --> 00:26:02,458 So we will do vitamins and minerals on a 643 00:26:02,458 --> 00:26:03,458 sample we do we send 644 00:26:03,458 --> 00:26:04,833 very little work out. 645 00:26:05,208 --> 00:26:07,000 We like to keep control of our samples. 646 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,291 So for example, if you go to a doctor and 647 00:26:11,291 --> 00:26:13,875 you ask for they suspect you've got a 648 00:26:13,875 --> 00:26:15,750 thyroid issue, they might just send it 649 00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:16,833 off for a T-sage because 650 00:26:16,833 --> 00:26:18,541 that's all there to do. 651 00:26:19,125 --> 00:26:21,500 Whereas we will do a whole thyroid panel, 652 00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:23,791 which actually gives a better picture. 653 00:26:24,041 --> 00:26:25,958 And if there is a result that is 654 00:26:25,958 --> 00:26:29,375 different, then the GP or the private 655 00:26:29,375 --> 00:26:31,166 doctor has that in front of them straight 656 00:26:31,166 --> 00:26:33,000 away instead of sending the patient back 657 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,000 for another blood test. 658 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,333 So we try to do more comprehensive 659 00:26:37,333 --> 00:26:38,708 testing that gives a 660 00:26:38,708 --> 00:26:40,583 bigger picture, I think. 661 00:26:41,958 --> 00:26:45,666 And in order to be able to do that as a 662 00:26:45,666 --> 00:26:47,333 private lab, you have to have that 663 00:26:47,333 --> 00:26:49,958 testing equipment in the house and you 664 00:26:49,958 --> 00:26:51,250 don't question what 665 00:26:51,250 --> 00:26:52,000 you're being requested to do. 666 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:57,666 So I would decide whether it's relevant, 667 00:26:57,666 --> 00:27:00,500 clinical relevant to do certain tests on 668 00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:02,541 the sample that comes into us whereas NHS 669 00:27:02,541 --> 00:27:05,708 labs have to ask that question, why are 670 00:27:05,708 --> 00:27:08,083 we doing this test on this patient that's 671 00:27:08,083 --> 00:27:09,000 costing the NHS money? 672 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:10,083 Yeah, 673 00:27:11,125 --> 00:27:13,208 no, I suppose that's a bigger issue 674 00:27:13,208 --> 00:27:15,416 potentially talking about NHS guidelines 675 00:27:15,416 --> 00:27:16,291 and why they will and 676 00:27:16,291 --> 00:27:17,250 won't do certain tests. 677 00:27:17,875 --> 00:27:20,625 But I think thyroid testing is 678 00:27:20,625 --> 00:27:24,000 completely, it's a mess. 679 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,125 I mean, I'm sure you can speak to this 680 00:27:26,125 --> 00:27:28,000 too, but looking at someone's T-sage and 681 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,291 just sort of hoping that your cover all 682 00:27:30,291 --> 00:27:32,125 bases just by looking at one signaling 683 00:27:32,125 --> 00:27:34,625 molecule is definitely not enough. 684 00:27:34,625 --> 00:27:37,666 And I suppose that sort of speaks to a 685 00:27:37,666 --> 00:27:40,458 reason why an individual should look to 686 00:27:40,458 --> 00:27:43,666 go private with testing to begin with, 687 00:27:44,166 --> 00:27:46,250 especially if there's maybe a bit more of 688 00:27:46,250 --> 00:27:48,166 a complex medical condition or they are 689 00:27:48,166 --> 00:27:50,250 struggling to get the answers that they 690 00:27:50,250 --> 00:27:52,000 need out of their GP. 691 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,500 Hopefully something we can come back to a 692 00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:57,083 little later on in the conversation. 693 00:27:59,125 --> 00:28:01,583 Anyway, last time I checked, which was 694 00:28:01,583 --> 00:28:03,833 when I had some caffeine in me, we were 695 00:28:03,833 --> 00:28:07,833 in 2025 and we are slowly, well, not 696 00:28:07,833 --> 00:28:10,000 slowly actually, we're fast moving into 697 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,083 this sort of area of well, everything 698 00:28:13,083 --> 00:28:14,000 artificial intelligence. 699 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,000 Now, 700 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,041 there are various companies popping out 701 00:28:18,041 --> 00:28:19,791 the woodwork here that are starting to 702 00:28:19,791 --> 00:28:23,000 sort of amalgamate sort of, I suppose, 703 00:28:23,583 --> 00:28:24,000 quote unquote 704 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,000 traditional testing with AI. 705 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,500 The clearly scan in the States being a 706 00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:30,625 perfect example of this, which is 707 00:28:30,625 --> 00:28:34,833 starting to utilize CTN geography along 708 00:28:34,833 --> 00:28:39,375 with these AI engines to create, well, 709 00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:44,583 results that look at calcium deposits in 710 00:28:44,583 --> 00:28:47,208 the body with far more accuracy than 711 00:28:47,208 --> 00:28:50,208 maybe just CTN geography by itself or 712 00:28:50,208 --> 00:28:52,666 traditional CAC 713 00:28:52,666 --> 00:28:53,958 school, something like that. 714 00:28:55,375 --> 00:28:57,750 Have you thought about AI at all? 715 00:28:58,041 --> 00:28:59,000 And are you looking to sort of 716 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,000 potentially integrate it 717 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,208 into your services yet? 718 00:29:01,208 --> 00:29:03,333 Or is that something that's maybe a 719 00:29:03,333 --> 00:29:04,000 couple of years down 720 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:04,708 the line for you guys? 721 00:29:05,333 --> 00:29:10,416 I think for me, it's about the testing we 722 00:29:10,416 --> 00:29:12,291 do and the quality of testing to do. 723 00:29:12,583 --> 00:29:12,916 I think the 724 00:29:12,916 --> 00:29:16,750 interpretation of it may come in. 725 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,958 I'm not 100% confident it 726 00:29:18,958 --> 00:29:20,625 will work for everybody. 727 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,333 And that's the risk. 728 00:29:23,333 --> 00:29:25,500 I think it is, knowing it's probably 729 00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:27,708 someone, you know, good to me, that will 730 00:29:27,708 --> 00:29:31,166 look into that and say, actually, you 731 00:29:31,166 --> 00:29:32,791 know, this is going to come in. 732 00:29:32,791 --> 00:29:34,416 And I know there are companies out there 733 00:29:34,416 --> 00:29:35,666 experimenting with it. 734 00:29:35,666 --> 00:29:39,166 I don't know how that evolves when you're 735 00:29:39,166 --> 00:29:41,375 safe from the patient, whether people 736 00:29:41,375 --> 00:29:43,833 have done comparisons of what something 737 00:29:43,833 --> 00:29:47,791 AI would clinically diagnose 738 00:29:47,791 --> 00:29:49,000 compared to a normal doctor. 739 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,875 And I think we just need to be. 740 00:29:52,125 --> 00:29:54,125 It is out there and it will come. 741 00:29:54,666 --> 00:29:55,916 But where we are with it 742 00:29:55,916 --> 00:29:57,625 at the moment, I don't know. 743 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,000 For me, the important bit is us getting 744 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,958 the latest technology and the best test 745 00:30:02,958 --> 00:30:06,083 results we can out there to enable 746 00:30:06,083 --> 00:30:07,583 somebody to be able to do 747 00:30:07,583 --> 00:30:09,000 a diagnosis on a patient. 748 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:09,666 On 749 00:30:09,666 --> 00:30:12,000 the back end, yes, I suppose it's the 750 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:12,833 case of it ain't broke. 751 00:30:12,833 --> 00:30:13,666 Don't fix it, really. 752 00:30:15,083 --> 00:30:15,416 Fair enough. 753 00:30:15,833 --> 00:30:18,250 Well, of course, it's, as you mentioned, 754 00:30:18,250 --> 00:30:19,875 it's the future and it's something I'm 755 00:30:19,875 --> 00:30:21,708 definitely excited to see develop. 756 00:30:23,041 --> 00:30:25,875 In any case, I'd like to pivot again into 757 00:30:25,875 --> 00:30:26,750 something else that maybe 758 00:30:26,750 --> 00:30:28,916 I'm a little more clued up on. 759 00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:30,791 And that's the preventative 760 00:30:30,791 --> 00:30:32,000 care side of the equation. 761 00:30:32,333 --> 00:30:36,041 Now, part of what I do with the clients 762 00:30:36,041 --> 00:30:38,375 that I work with is obviously 763 00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:40,958 has a lot to do with testing. 764 00:30:41,333 --> 00:30:46,333 Now, in the past, I've tried to work with 765 00:30:46,333 --> 00:30:49,625 maybe clients, PCP, their primary care 766 00:30:49,625 --> 00:30:51,750 physician, to help them keep the costs 767 00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:53,500 down and get the testing done like that. 768 00:30:53,791 --> 00:30:55,250 But it's never worked. 769 00:30:55,250 --> 00:30:55,916 It's always painful. 770 00:30:56,416 --> 00:30:57,000 It's back and forth. 771 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,875 And now I rely predominantly 772 00:31:00,875 --> 00:31:03,250 on labs such as yourselves. 773 00:31:04,250 --> 00:31:06,125 From your point of view, though, why do 774 00:31:06,125 --> 00:31:08,666 you think more people are looking to 775 00:31:08,666 --> 00:31:10,666 optimize their, who are looking to 776 00:31:10,666 --> 00:31:11,416 optimize their health? 777 00:31:11,916 --> 00:31:12,291 Excuse me. 778 00:31:12,583 --> 00:31:15,583 I'll start on to turn to private labs and 779 00:31:15,583 --> 00:31:19,333 to help them keep track of the testing 780 00:31:19,333 --> 00:31:20,000 that they're choosing to run. 781 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,125 I think people are more aware of their 782 00:31:24,125 --> 00:31:25,833 health in general now. 783 00:31:26,375 --> 00:31:28,708 And I think COVID has taught the general 784 00:31:28,708 --> 00:31:31,583 public that actually there is a lab out 785 00:31:31,583 --> 00:31:32,458 there and there is 786 00:31:32,458 --> 00:31:35,166 access to private testing. 787 00:31:35,166 --> 00:31:36,791 I think that's changed a lot. 788 00:31:37,416 --> 00:31:40,500 I think telemedicine is important. 789 00:31:40,833 --> 00:31:42,083 People don't have to 790 00:31:42,083 --> 00:31:44,000 go somewhere to do it. 791 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:49,541 But the NHS is fantastic and it does what 792 00:31:49,541 --> 00:31:52,333 it does for acute care really well. 793 00:31:53,625 --> 00:31:54,791 We all want to be healthy. 794 00:31:55,125 --> 00:31:57,416 I think that is the way that 795 00:31:57,416 --> 00:31:59,375 we all want to live longer. 796 00:31:59,375 --> 00:32:00,125 We all want to have 797 00:32:00,125 --> 00:32:01,000 better quality of life. 798 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,500 And I think we're all more aware of our 799 00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:05,875 health and what we can 800 00:32:05,875 --> 00:32:07,208 do to help that process. 801 00:32:08,250 --> 00:32:11,333 And I think that's where the private 802 00:32:11,333 --> 00:32:15,500 pathology market will expand massively. 803 00:32:16,208 --> 00:32:19,250 Because people take supplements, they 804 00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:21,250 want to live longer. 805 00:32:21,875 --> 00:32:23,375 They're looking at things. 806 00:32:23,375 --> 00:32:24,916 They're looking at different biomarkers 807 00:32:24,916 --> 00:32:26,000 than you would in the NHS. 808 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,583 And monitoring their health, I think. 809 00:32:30,250 --> 00:32:32,333 And I think it's important that private 810 00:32:32,333 --> 00:32:34,625 labs offer that service because I don't 811 00:32:34,625 --> 00:32:35,666 necessarily think the NHS 812 00:32:35,666 --> 00:32:37,416 should offer that service. 813 00:32:37,916 --> 00:32:40,041 We're trying to get cost 814 00:32:40,041 --> 00:32:42,083 down, bring things in house. 815 00:32:42,458 --> 00:32:44,375 And the more we do with that testing, the 816 00:32:44,375 --> 00:32:45,000 cheaper it will become. 817 00:32:45,041 --> 00:32:48,541 Because instead of doing one test, 818 00:32:49,583 --> 00:32:50,041 you'll suddenly... 819 00:32:51,458 --> 00:32:53,708 test kits tend to come in a batch of 100. 820 00:32:53,958 --> 00:32:56,791 So if you're doing one and it goes off in 821 00:32:56,791 --> 00:32:59,375 30 days, you incur the 822 00:32:59,375 --> 00:33:01,458 whole cost of that test kit. 823 00:33:01,875 --> 00:33:02,916 If you could do 100, 824 00:33:03,583 --> 00:33:05,375 you're splitting that cost down. 825 00:33:05,875 --> 00:33:07,833 And what we do at Major Microbiology, we 826 00:33:07,833 --> 00:33:10,625 really try and pass that cost reduction 827 00:33:10,625 --> 00:33:13,458 on as soon as we've got demand or it's 828 00:33:13,458 --> 00:33:15,000 costing us less to do. 829 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,083 Because there's no poor offering to test 830 00:33:19,083 --> 00:33:20,541 that's going to cost a thousand pound 831 00:33:20,541 --> 00:33:24,458 because no one's going to do it and it 832 00:33:24,458 --> 00:33:26,291 becomes inaccessible to people. 833 00:33:26,291 --> 00:33:27,875 But if you can offer something for 20, 834 00:33:28,291 --> 00:33:30,166 because you're doing probably not be, 835 00:33:30,166 --> 00:33:31,583 then it makes more sense. 836 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,291 That makes perfect sense. 837 00:33:34,666 --> 00:33:37,750 And it's definitely a business model I 838 00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:39,958 can get behind, especially again, when 839 00:33:39,958 --> 00:33:41,791 working with clients and sort of 840 00:33:41,791 --> 00:33:44,791 oftentimes you will try and get them to 841 00:33:44,791 --> 00:33:46,416 run a few different tests at all at once. 842 00:33:46,666 --> 00:33:47,500 And yeah, those bills 843 00:33:47,500 --> 00:33:49,458 really do add up very quickly. 844 00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:51,000 So that's awesome to hear. 845 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,083 So I suppose a lot of companies in this 846 00:33:54,083 --> 00:33:57,458 space have launched or starting to sort 847 00:33:57,458 --> 00:33:58,375 of build out these 848 00:33:58,375 --> 00:33:59,625 direct to consumer models. 849 00:34:00,458 --> 00:34:01,916 This obviously has its pros and cons. 850 00:34:02,875 --> 00:34:05,875 I would have thought with your clinical 851 00:34:05,875 --> 00:34:07,500 support team, that's maybe it's something 852 00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:09,000 that you would start to look at offering. 853 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,666 I'd love to chat about your support team 854 00:34:11,666 --> 00:34:12,750 in a second, by the way. 855 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,500 Is this sort of something that you're 856 00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:18,375 considering this sort of, yeah, this DTC 857 00:34:18,375 --> 00:34:21,958 model or you primarily just still looking 858 00:34:21,958 --> 00:34:22,875 to work through practitioners? 859 00:34:23,583 --> 00:34:24,791 We try and work through 860 00:34:24,791 --> 00:34:26,208 practitioners when we can. 861 00:34:27,458 --> 00:34:29,083 One of the reasons is we don't want to 862 00:34:29,083 --> 00:34:31,041 compete with our own customers. 863 00:34:31,791 --> 00:34:35,041 I know some labs are happy that they are 864 00:34:35,041 --> 00:34:36,000 offered to the general public. 865 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,958 We did in COVID, obviously, because we 866 00:34:40,958 --> 00:34:43,625 had to offer to the public in COVID. 867 00:34:44,625 --> 00:34:46,000 I think it helps. 868 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,875 I think there are a lot of private GPs 869 00:34:47,875 --> 00:34:50,791 and telemedicine companies that can help 870 00:34:50,791 --> 00:34:52,000 people and we can help facilitate that testing. 871 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,375 But I really do like having that 872 00:34:55,375 --> 00:34:59,125 relationship with our GPs and it might be 873 00:34:59,125 --> 00:35:01,125 physios, it might be people who work in 874 00:35:01,125 --> 00:35:04,125 the gym, but we like having, helping them 875 00:35:04,125 --> 00:35:07,625 provide a service to their customers or 876 00:35:07,625 --> 00:35:09,416 their group of people as well. 877 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,083 It's not about individual consumer 878 00:35:13,083 --> 00:35:14,958 testing for us because I think there are 879 00:35:14,958 --> 00:35:16,000 other platforms that do that quite well. 880 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,333 Menopause and Test Australia 881 00:35:20,333 --> 00:35:22,625 are classic examples of that. 882 00:35:23,125 --> 00:35:26,500 There are companies that have thousands 883 00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:28,541 of clients on there. 884 00:35:28,541 --> 00:35:32,333 They're books and we just deal with the 885 00:35:32,333 --> 00:35:34,458 GPs, that run all the 886 00:35:34,458 --> 00:35:36,083 physios and the people. 887 00:35:36,875 --> 00:35:39,125 So I think where we can, we try to deal 888 00:35:39,125 --> 00:35:42,000 business to business rather than DTC. 889 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,500 Yeah, that makes complete sense. 890 00:35:46,083 --> 00:35:49,041 I suppose it's kind of the old adage, you 891 00:35:49,041 --> 00:35:50,583 sort of stick to a warehouse focus on 892 00:35:50,583 --> 00:35:52,250 what you do well and then let everybody 893 00:35:52,250 --> 00:35:54,375 else sort of, I suppose, 894 00:35:54,375 --> 00:35:55,708 pick up a slack on the backend. 895 00:35:56,958 --> 00:35:58,708 Just out of interest, are you supporting 896 00:35:58,708 --> 00:36:02,041 any of these sort of platforms on the 897 00:36:02,041 --> 00:36:04,000 backend with their testing services? 898 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,250 Yeah, there's a lot of the online 899 00:36:08,250 --> 00:36:11,833 companies that we do the testing for and 900 00:36:11,833 --> 00:36:14,625 we facilitate, which is different to a 901 00:36:14,625 --> 00:36:16,291 lot of other labs, we facilitate through 902 00:36:16,291 --> 00:36:17,541 Botany, which was a 903 00:36:17,541 --> 00:36:20,250 big hole in the market. 904 00:36:20,583 --> 00:36:22,750 So if you're doing online consultation 905 00:36:22,750 --> 00:36:25,125 and you need to go and have your blood 906 00:36:25,125 --> 00:36:28,833 taken, it was very difficult to find 907 00:36:28,833 --> 00:36:30,000 somewhere that can do that. 908 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,416 And we facilitate that 909 00:36:32,416 --> 00:36:33,458 for all our customers. 910 00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:35,291 That's an add-on service we do. 911 00:36:36,291 --> 00:36:37,833 So we've got from Botany clinics all 912 00:36:37,833 --> 00:36:40,041 around the country that CQC registered 913 00:36:40,041 --> 00:36:47,708 and we have patient's bonus that are 914 00:36:47,708 --> 00:36:50,041 referred by their clinics and we put 915 00:36:50,041 --> 00:36:53,166 their postcode on and try and facilitate 916 00:36:53,166 --> 00:36:55,125 that from Botany, whether that's with a 917 00:36:55,125 --> 00:36:56,708 clinic based from Botany or 918 00:36:56,708 --> 00:36:58,000 whether it's a mobile service. 919 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,666 So we've worked very hard since we first 920 00:37:01,666 --> 00:37:04,708 began really offering a free botany 921 00:37:04,708 --> 00:37:05,875 service across the country. 922 00:37:06,791 --> 00:37:09,750 We've streamlined that and I think that's 923 00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:12,958 a very good add-on for our customers and 924 00:37:12,958 --> 00:37:15,833 a lot of people use this because we offer 925 00:37:15,833 --> 00:37:17,000 that service and we do it very well. 926 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:17,958 Yeah, 927 00:37:18,625 --> 00:37:19,541 you definitely do. 928 00:37:19,541 --> 00:37:21,333 And again, I mean, it's something I've 929 00:37:21,333 --> 00:37:22,958 used as well with the 930 00:37:22,958 --> 00:37:24,041 clients I work with. 931 00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:27,916 And it is required because unlike, 932 00:37:29,708 --> 00:37:31,125 yeah, I suppose I'm the exception to the 933 00:37:31,125 --> 00:37:32,750 rule, but very few people are willing to 934 00:37:32,750 --> 00:37:34,500 flip optimize themselves like I am. 935 00:37:34,750 --> 00:37:37,333 So it's a case of do as I say, as I do, 936 00:37:37,333 --> 00:37:39,666 of course, but needs must sometimes, 937 00:37:40,458 --> 00:37:42,458 needs must occasionally. 938 00:37:43,083 --> 00:37:44,208 So yeah, I'm thrilled as 939 00:37:44,208 --> 00:37:45,000 a service that you offer. 940 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,500 Okay, the other thing that you do really 941 00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:51,000 well is you've got this sort of back end 942 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,041 clinical support structure that does help 943 00:37:55,041 --> 00:37:58,041 when helping to interpret results. 944 00:37:59,750 --> 00:38:00,625 How did and when did 945 00:38:00,625 --> 00:38:01,500 that sort of developed? 946 00:38:01,791 --> 00:38:03,875 Was that sort of something that was sort 947 00:38:03,875 --> 00:38:06,541 of introduced straight off the bat or has 948 00:38:06,541 --> 00:38:08,125 that something you've introduced over the 949 00:38:08,125 --> 00:38:09,208 years to sort of help? 950 00:38:09,416 --> 00:38:13,000 Well, I suppose the practitioners you 951 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,708 work with in the odd sort of direct 952 00:38:14,708 --> 00:38:16,250 institutions, you know, you can help them 953 00:38:16,250 --> 00:38:18,375 to understand the labs that they're 954 00:38:18,375 --> 00:38:20,000 trying to run and interpret. 955 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,125 Yeah, I mean, I think it evolved. 956 00:38:23,375 --> 00:38:27,250 It was always there from the beginning, 957 00:38:27,250 --> 00:38:29,708 but on a very small scale. 958 00:38:30,250 --> 00:38:32,916 UCAS 15189 accreditations 959 00:38:32,916 --> 00:38:35,041 and medical accreditations. 960 00:38:35,250 --> 00:38:38,125 So it gives you it does require you to 961 00:38:38,125 --> 00:38:39,250 have consultant back 962 00:38:39,250 --> 00:38:41,000 up for clinical advice. 963 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,000 We've got three, that's part of the 964 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,666 standard for that accreditation. 965 00:38:47,833 --> 00:38:50,250 So it means that we can give advice, we 966 00:38:50,250 --> 00:38:52,000 can interpret some results. 967 00:38:52,583 --> 00:38:54,625 We can say whether you've got a current 968 00:38:54,625 --> 00:38:57,666 infection or we assume you've got a past 969 00:38:57,666 --> 00:38:59,000 infection based on the results we get. 970 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,041 But also for in-depth things, especially 971 00:39:03,041 --> 00:39:04,791 from microbiology and 972 00:39:04,791 --> 00:39:06,500 some just disease results. 973 00:39:07,125 --> 00:39:09,041 We've got consultant back up that can 974 00:39:09,041 --> 00:39:13,583 talk to our GPs and reassure them or 975 00:39:13,583 --> 00:39:14,416 suggest for the 976 00:39:14,416 --> 00:39:16,000 testing that they may need. 977 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,791 And that's an important part now, as we 978 00:39:19,791 --> 00:39:21,291 discussed earlier, the more and more 979 00:39:21,291 --> 00:39:25,375 people using private pathology labs. 980 00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:27,458 Obviously in hospital, we 981 00:39:27,458 --> 00:39:29,208 have instant access to doctors. 982 00:39:29,666 --> 00:39:31,500 But I think it's something that we are 983 00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:34,375 proud of that we can offer 984 00:39:34,375 --> 00:39:36,041 that service to all our clients. 985 00:39:37,041 --> 00:39:39,041 And it's really important because it 986 00:39:39,041 --> 00:39:42,000 gives them reassurance in cases that they 987 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,500 can pick up the phone 988 00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:45,166 and speak to people. 989 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,541 What we also do is, as I say, we don't 990 00:39:50,541 --> 00:39:53,500 operate a call centre for such, radical 991 00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:56,958 people and people have access to me and 992 00:39:56,958 --> 00:40:01,000 director level at any time, night or day, 993 00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:04,416 to speak to us if they're unsure about 994 00:40:04,416 --> 00:40:05,833 what testing they should be doing, 995 00:40:06,041 --> 00:40:07,000 whether they're unsure about the source. 996 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,333 And I think that's very different. 997 00:40:09,541 --> 00:40:10,375 It makes us unique 998 00:40:10,375 --> 00:40:13,708 really in the vulture world. 999 00:40:13,916 --> 00:40:15,250 And I think that's something that would 1000 00:40:15,250 --> 00:40:18,250 be very precious about keeping that we 1001 00:40:18,250 --> 00:40:20,083 are a very bespoke tailor 1002 00:40:20,083 --> 00:40:21,625 made service for our clients. 1003 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,166 And I think we can do that well, probably 1004 00:40:24,166 --> 00:40:26,500 because we don't sound to the general 1005 00:40:26,500 --> 00:40:28,000 public as well, because we're not 1006 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,458 overloading with individual cases. 1007 00:40:31,958 --> 00:40:33,541 We can still deal with those individual 1008 00:40:33,541 --> 00:40:35,333 cases, but we're doing them through one 1009 00:40:35,333 --> 00:40:38,000 forum rather than each individual person. 1010 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,458 Yeah, that just speaks volumes again to 1011 00:40:41,458 --> 00:40:42,625 the type of service that 1012 00:40:42,625 --> 00:40:43,708 you are you're offering. 1013 00:40:44,166 --> 00:40:45,791 And I think it does ultimately just 1014 00:40:45,791 --> 00:40:48,916 result in better patient outcomes too, 1015 00:40:48,916 --> 00:40:50,958 because you have multiple sorts of points 1016 00:40:50,958 --> 00:40:53,000 of interpretation on the test. 1017 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,333 And then you can sort of come to sort of 1018 00:40:55,333 --> 00:40:57,750 a common consensus as to maybe what the 1019 00:40:57,750 --> 00:41:00,916 issue is and instead of maybe a 1020 00:41:00,916 --> 00:41:04,500 misinterpretation on the physicians part 1021 00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:06,083 if they maybe don't understand the 1022 00:41:06,083 --> 00:41:07,625 nuances of that specific lab. 1023 00:41:08,375 --> 00:41:09,583 So I think that is well, I 1024 00:41:09,583 --> 00:41:11,000 know that's really helpful. 1025 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,916 In any case, 1026 00:41:14,541 --> 00:41:15,541 Cheryl, you've been amazing. 1027 00:41:16,125 --> 00:41:16,833 And I know we're 1028 00:41:16,833 --> 00:41:17,833 starting to run up on time. 1029 00:41:18,291 --> 00:41:19,708 Would you be open to just running through 1030 00:41:19,708 --> 00:41:22,208 a few sort of rapid ish fire questions, a 1031 00:41:22,208 --> 00:41:24,833 lightning round, as you might say, 1032 00:41:25,500 --> 00:41:26,625 they're never that rapid. 1033 00:41:26,916 --> 00:41:28,416 But yeah, sort of just a 1034 00:41:28,416 --> 00:41:29,625 nice question to end off with. 1035 00:41:30,291 --> 00:41:31,000 Yeah, that's fine. 1036 00:41:31,541 --> 00:41:31,791 Cool. 1037 00:41:32,250 --> 00:41:32,458 Awesome. 1038 00:41:33,041 --> 00:41:33,250 Okay. 1039 00:41:35,333 --> 00:41:37,083 Test in your opinion that you reckon 1040 00:41:37,083 --> 00:41:40,333 everybody should run maybe on 1041 00:41:40,333 --> 00:41:42,125 a quarterly to a yearly basis. 1042 00:41:43,500 --> 00:41:45,125 Definitely hemoglobin A1c 1043 00:41:45,125 --> 00:41:46,916 is to pick up pre-diabetics. 1044 00:41:46,916 --> 00:41:49,125 That is a big thing that can actually be 1045 00:41:49,125 --> 00:41:52,125 reversed really easily if it's called a 1046 00:41:52,125 --> 00:41:54,208 life thyroid function. 1047 00:41:54,541 --> 00:41:56,708 I think it's really important to test. 1048 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,666 Your general well man, well woman checks. 1049 00:42:01,083 --> 00:42:02,083 There are lots of 1050 00:42:02,083 --> 00:42:04,250 diseases that can be addressed. 1051 00:42:06,125 --> 00:42:09,250 Fairly simply that you might not pick up 1052 00:42:09,250 --> 00:42:12,416 and GPs don't do that preventative well 1053 00:42:12,416 --> 00:42:14,333 man, well woman check every year. 1054 00:42:14,750 --> 00:42:17,250 If you're under a certain age as well, 1055 00:42:17,250 --> 00:42:17,958 you know, we've 1056 00:42:17,958 --> 00:42:19,500 picked up things actually. 1057 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,125 And the lab team when we've wanted to 1058 00:42:23,125 --> 00:42:26,208 validate tests or use people as controls 1059 00:42:26,208 --> 00:42:28,333 and we've picked up definitely thyroid 1060 00:42:28,333 --> 00:42:31,125 issues, autoimmune type diseases. 1061 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,708 That is now people have been treated as 1062 00:42:34,708 --> 00:42:36,333 giving them a better quality of life. 1063 00:42:36,833 --> 00:42:38,541 I think it's really important to test and 1064 00:42:38,541 --> 00:42:40,333 really important to trend as well. 1065 00:42:40,791 --> 00:42:44,500 So what might be normal for you might 1066 00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:46,041 alter slightly but might 1067 00:42:46,041 --> 00:42:48,000 still be in that normal range. 1068 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,833 Most of those normal ranges are for 90% 1069 00:42:50,166 --> 00:42:53,041 of the population, but your normal range 1070 00:42:53,041 --> 00:42:54,166 might be slightly different. 1071 00:42:54,500 --> 00:42:57,166 Your testosterone might run at a certain 1072 00:42:57,166 --> 00:42:59,958 level and that might be 1073 00:42:59,958 --> 00:43:01,291 normal for everyone else. 1074 00:43:01,291 --> 00:43:03,291 But you know if that drops but still in a 1075 00:43:03,291 --> 00:43:05,333 normal range and that affects your 1076 00:43:05,333 --> 00:43:07,791 lifestyle or your well being. 1077 00:43:08,541 --> 00:43:10,791 So I think it is important to check 1078 00:43:10,791 --> 00:43:14,375 annually, six monthly annually for that. 1079 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,500 And that's what we do for 1080 00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:19,083 our sports clients as well. 1081 00:43:19,541 --> 00:43:20,625 You know, we're really 1082 00:43:20,625 --> 00:43:22,166 involved in sports medicine. 1083 00:43:23,041 --> 00:43:25,333 It's really important for them, these 1084 00:43:25,333 --> 00:43:28,583 athletes to have regular testing because 1085 00:43:28,583 --> 00:43:33,458 they are pushed to the 1086 00:43:33,458 --> 00:43:34,916 extremes of their bodily. 1087 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:37,708 So we do a lot of trending 1088 00:43:37,708 --> 00:43:39,416 for our sports clubs as well. 1089 00:43:40,250 --> 00:43:41,291 How about trending you mean? 1090 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:42,666 Trend your so we 1091 00:43:42,666 --> 00:43:44,166 compare results at the time. 1092 00:43:44,458 --> 00:43:45,000 Oh, okay. 1093 00:43:45,458 --> 00:43:45,875 All right. 1094 00:43:45,875 --> 00:43:46,250 Got you. 1095 00:43:46,791 --> 00:43:47,833 And what sort of markers generally 1096 00:43:47,833 --> 00:43:49,250 speaking there are you looking at for 1097 00:43:49,250 --> 00:43:50,791 sort of professional sports teams? 1098 00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:54,250 I assume it's a lot of hormones, a lot of 1099 00:43:54,250 --> 00:43:56,833 liver enzymes, a lot of inflammation 1100 00:43:56,833 --> 00:43:59,500 markers, obviously keeping an eye on 1101 00:43:59,500 --> 00:44:00,083 those metabolic 1102 00:44:00,083 --> 00:44:01,750 parameters you spoke on earlier. 1103 00:44:02,916 --> 00:44:05,000 Is it just sort of an extension of this 1104 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,291 sort of the well man well woman test or 1105 00:44:07,291 --> 00:44:09,250 are you looking for something sort of 1106 00:44:09,250 --> 00:44:10,666 ultra specific with those tests? 1107 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:11,583 We do that. 1108 00:44:11,875 --> 00:44:14,958 I think I think sports medicine actually 1109 00:44:14,958 --> 00:44:17,041 has gone down the roof of nutrition and 1110 00:44:17,041 --> 00:44:18,875 it's very important to them. 1111 00:44:19,416 --> 00:44:21,958 And they obviously have supplements for 1112 00:44:21,958 --> 00:44:24,291 certain things they have to be certain 1113 00:44:24,291 --> 00:44:26,500 biomarkers have to be high levels in the 1114 00:44:26,500 --> 00:44:28,541 lead athletes because their bodies are 1115 00:44:28,541 --> 00:44:30,333 under such extreme pressure. 1116 00:44:31,541 --> 00:44:32,583 And also they get ill. 1117 00:44:33,291 --> 00:44:35,125 They're ill like any of us, you know, 1118 00:44:35,125 --> 00:44:37,375 some of these sports players is a lot of 1119 00:44:37,375 --> 00:44:38,875 guided fever, those sort of things. 1120 00:44:39,250 --> 00:44:40,833 So there's, there's a 1121 00:44:40,833 --> 00:44:42,750 lot of testing in sports. 1122 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,458 And I think they tailor made their 1123 00:44:44,458 --> 00:44:47,208 nutrition as well, depending on the 1124 00:44:47,208 --> 00:44:49,166 biomarkers they get, you know, their 1125 00:44:49,166 --> 00:44:51,416 vitamin D's are at a certain level, their 1126 00:44:51,416 --> 00:44:52,625 ferritin level has to 1127 00:44:52,625 --> 00:44:53,333 be at a certain level. 1128 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,208 We test copper and zinc, in a lot of 1129 00:44:56,208 --> 00:44:58,000 sports players, we test a lot of vitamins 1130 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,208 as well, which is really interesting. 1131 00:45:00,416 --> 00:45:01,958 So the sports side of 1132 00:45:01,958 --> 00:45:03,750 it is very specific. 1133 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,125 And on our, we offer a trending platform 1134 00:45:09,125 --> 00:45:12,500 as well that with regular blood tests can 1135 00:45:12,500 --> 00:45:13,625 actually look at there. 1136 00:45:14,083 --> 00:45:16,750 There was also the time which is, which 1137 00:45:16,750 --> 00:45:18,375 is interesting, because 1138 00:45:18,375 --> 00:45:20,000 it impacts performance. 1139 00:45:21,166 --> 00:45:23,291 Yeah, that's, that's, that's impressive. 1140 00:45:23,583 --> 00:45:24,833 And I sort of love the fact that you 1141 00:45:24,833 --> 00:45:28,041 brought up nutrients, I think that aside 1142 00:45:28,041 --> 00:45:29,541 from the sort of the metabolic markers 1143 00:45:29,541 --> 00:45:32,166 nutrients are one of the most overlooked 1144 00:45:32,166 --> 00:45:34,833 markers or biomarkers that 1145 00:45:34,833 --> 00:45:36,000 people should be checking. 1146 00:45:36,500 --> 00:45:38,041 Bit of a selfish question, maybe, are you 1147 00:45:38,041 --> 00:45:40,375 looking at sort of whole serum nutrients 1148 00:45:40,375 --> 00:45:43,375 or do you do red blood cell as well, sort 1149 00:45:43,375 --> 00:45:44,125 of across the range? 1150 00:45:44,666 --> 00:45:46,541 Yeah, we do both depending on what the 1151 00:45:46,541 --> 00:45:47,666 climate, so we could 1152 00:45:47,666 --> 00:45:49,291 do a red cell or serum. 1153 00:45:50,375 --> 00:45:51,375 Okay, perfect. 1154 00:45:52,458 --> 00:45:54,000 Well, that was not a rapid fire question. 1155 00:45:54,333 --> 00:45:54,833 Hopefully the next one. 1156 00:45:55,083 --> 00:45:57,541 No, that was completely my fault. 1157 00:45:57,541 --> 00:46:00,125 I just went off on tangents, sort of, 1158 00:46:00,125 --> 00:46:01,458 yeah, get me going and 1159 00:46:01,458 --> 00:46:02,500 we'll be here till Christmas. 1160 00:46:03,083 --> 00:46:05,583 Okay, next one, and I'll try not to 1161 00:46:05,583 --> 00:46:06,458 interrupt too much, but 1162 00:46:06,458 --> 00:46:07,416 I'll probably fail miserably. 1163 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,291 What's the biggest myth 1164 00:46:09,291 --> 00:46:10,458 about private blood testing? 1165 00:46:11,291 --> 00:46:13,041 The myth that it's expensive. 1166 00:46:13,625 --> 00:46:15,541 I think I think people 1167 00:46:15,541 --> 00:46:17,500 think it's not reachable. 1168 00:46:18,125 --> 00:46:20,875 And it definitely is and it's got more 1169 00:46:20,875 --> 00:46:24,750 that way as I highlighted before we are 1170 00:46:24,750 --> 00:46:27,083 not afraid at the nationwide pathology of 1171 00:46:27,083 --> 00:46:29,000 bringing test prices down. 1172 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,750 If I can bring it in the house and do it 1173 00:46:30,750 --> 00:46:33,750 cheaper, I'd much rather do that with a 1174 00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:36,083 quicker turnaround, cheaper test, which 1175 00:46:36,083 --> 00:46:38,833 makes it accessible to people who 1176 00:46:38,833 --> 00:46:40,000 wouldn't think that 1177 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,291 they have access to that. 1178 00:46:41,708 --> 00:46:42,833 To start with, yeah. 1179 00:46:43,291 --> 00:46:44,916 Okay, a follow up on that one. 1180 00:46:44,916 --> 00:46:45,750 How can patients save 1181 00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:46,625 money on private testing? 1182 00:46:47,208 --> 00:46:48,250 I think if they went to 1183 00:46:48,250 --> 00:46:52,708 reputable private GPs, I think, Dr. 1184 00:46:52,708 --> 00:46:55,000 Google isn't an ideal thing because you 1185 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,291 can put lots of things into Google that 1186 00:46:58,291 --> 00:47:01,291 bring up very, very expensive tests. 1187 00:47:01,833 --> 00:47:03,875 Whereas if they go to somebody, not 1188 00:47:03,875 --> 00:47:06,291 necessarily a private GP, but that 1189 00:47:06,291 --> 00:47:08,583 somebody who's experienced in nutrition 1190 00:47:08,583 --> 00:47:12,208 or physios or some people who 1191 00:47:12,208 --> 00:47:13,500 are really interested in that. 1192 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,291 I think then they can direct them to 1193 00:47:16,291 --> 00:47:17,708 testing that is relevant 1194 00:47:17,708 --> 00:47:22,250 and not overly expensive. 1195 00:47:23,875 --> 00:47:25,375 Obviously, some of these tests that 1196 00:47:25,375 --> 00:47:28,333 appear in the papers every Sunday are 1197 00:47:28,333 --> 00:47:30,500 actually trying to test and they don't 1198 00:47:30,500 --> 00:47:33,333 hit some university in America and 1199 00:47:33,333 --> 00:47:34,708 they're actually not available. 1200 00:47:36,583 --> 00:47:38,250 But I think there's a lot of people out 1201 00:47:38,250 --> 00:47:40,916 there that can direct people to cost 1202 00:47:40,916 --> 00:47:42,666 effective private testing. 1203 00:47:43,625 --> 00:47:44,875 Yeah, I think there's definitely an 1204 00:47:44,875 --> 00:47:46,833 element of Dunning-Kruger, that cognitive 1205 00:47:46,833 --> 00:47:49,375 bias where people with maybe a low 1206 00:47:49,375 --> 00:47:51,875 competence in a specific area tend to 1207 00:47:51,875 --> 00:47:53,625 overestimate their ability 1208 00:47:53,625 --> 00:47:55,375 or knowledge in that domain. 1209 00:47:55,791 --> 00:47:57,625 And then they get onto Google and then 1210 00:47:57,625 --> 00:48:02,541 all of a sudden they go wild on a DTC 1211 00:48:02,541 --> 00:48:05,333 platform and rake up a 3,000 quid bill 1212 00:48:05,333 --> 00:48:07,416 when in reality all they need to do is 1213 00:48:07,416 --> 00:48:08,666 check a few simple markers. 1214 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,208 Yeah, those are 1215 00:48:12,208 --> 00:48:15,000 definitely sage words of advice. 1216 00:48:15,750 --> 00:48:19,250 And I think as well what is relevant is 1217 00:48:19,250 --> 00:48:21,416 sometimes people want a lot of testing 1218 00:48:21,416 --> 00:48:23,625 and if they go through some of our 1219 00:48:23,625 --> 00:48:26,541 clients, if they send that to us, 1220 00:48:26,541 --> 00:48:29,041 individual testing, you have to have an 1221 00:48:29,041 --> 00:48:30,000 individual price for a test. 1222 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,041 But if you're doing a big group of 1223 00:48:33,041 --> 00:48:36,666 biomarkers, we can offer different 1224 00:48:36,666 --> 00:48:39,625 profiles and more cost effective profiles 1225 00:48:39,625 --> 00:48:41,416 and we can actually group those together. 1226 00:48:41,791 --> 00:48:43,541 And we have actually launched for a lot 1227 00:48:43,541 --> 00:48:46,208 of our clients, some tired all the time 1228 00:48:46,208 --> 00:48:47,291 profiles and some 1229 00:48:47,291 --> 00:48:49,000 well-man, some well-woman. 1230 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,625 That if you go on a platform and request 1231 00:48:53,625 --> 00:48:55,416 each of those tests individually, it 1232 00:48:55,416 --> 00:48:57,333 becomes hundreds of pounds when actually 1233 00:48:57,333 --> 00:48:59,958 we can make a much more cost effective 1234 00:48:59,958 --> 00:49:02,083 way of doing some set profiles. 1235 00:49:02,666 --> 00:49:04,000 So that's how we like to work. 1236 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,625 We like to be able to offer people the 1237 00:49:06,625 --> 00:49:08,458 best price for the most comprehensive 1238 00:49:08,458 --> 00:49:09,708 testing that we can 1239 00:49:09,708 --> 00:49:10,708 with the quickest way. 1240 00:49:11,708 --> 00:49:13,500 That sort of economy of scale thing sort 1241 00:49:13,500 --> 00:49:15,958 of starts ranking up in 1242 00:49:15,958 --> 00:49:17,000 your favour as the consumer. 1243 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,041 Okay, next one. 1244 00:49:19,375 --> 00:49:22,041 What do you find is the biggest trend in 1245 00:49:22,041 --> 00:49:23,041 private healthcare at the moment? 1246 00:49:24,041 --> 00:49:25,250 To say I think 1247 00:49:25,250 --> 00:49:27,958 hormone testing is very big. 1248 00:49:27,958 --> 00:49:28,875 I think testosterone 1249 00:49:28,875 --> 00:49:33,000 will be the next big market. 1250 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,333 We are obviously women's menopause 1251 00:49:36,333 --> 00:49:38,583 clinics are very well-known now. 1252 00:49:38,583 --> 00:49:39,000 They're very publicised. 1253 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,500 People know about them. 1254 00:49:41,500 --> 00:49:46,500 I think there is a myth behind men saying 1255 00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:47,250 they have a problem. 1256 00:49:47,500 --> 00:49:50,000 And I think generally as a lab, we have 1257 00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,583 seen men to testosterone results drop 1258 00:49:52,583 --> 00:49:55,500 dramatically over the last few years. 1259 00:49:55,500 --> 00:49:57,916 And I think really that is, you know, we 1260 00:49:57,916 --> 00:50:00,416 can get rid of the kudos of men having 1261 00:50:00,416 --> 00:50:04,041 low testosterone and make men talk about 1262 00:50:04,041 --> 00:50:05,000 it more or more symptoms. 1263 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,583 And I definitely think that's something 1264 00:50:07,583 --> 00:50:08,541 we should be testing. 1265 00:50:09,583 --> 00:50:10,541 Yeah, that's interesting. 1266 00:50:10,833 --> 00:50:11,750 I was going to I 1267 00:50:11,750 --> 00:50:12,541 would have said longevity. 1268 00:50:12,916 --> 00:50:14,125 I think that's possibly the next 1269 00:50:14,125 --> 00:50:15,333 burgeoning market as well. 1270 00:50:16,208 --> 00:50:17,958 I think a lot of people are starting to 1271 00:50:17,958 --> 00:50:20,500 become very sort of aware of their 1272 00:50:20,500 --> 00:50:21,916 mortality and that there's 1273 00:50:21,916 --> 00:50:23,416 something you can do about it. 1274 00:50:23,416 --> 00:50:25,333 And obviously, there are a lot of markers 1275 00:50:25,333 --> 00:50:27,500 associated, quote unquote, with one's 1276 00:50:27,500 --> 00:50:29,500 longevity that can be where this data 1277 00:50:29,500 --> 00:50:30,625 that can be extrapolated. 1278 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:33,750 And there's data that can be 1279 00:50:33,750 --> 00:50:35,041 extrapolated from those tests. 1280 00:50:35,041 --> 00:50:37,291 But no, I mean, that's an 1281 00:50:37,291 --> 00:50:38,916 interesting take for sure. 1282 00:50:39,500 --> 00:50:41,500 And I suppose the last question of the 1283 00:50:41,500 --> 00:50:43,208 day, where do you think the private 1284 00:50:43,208 --> 00:50:45,625 health care system is headed in the UK? 1285 00:50:46,583 --> 00:50:49,250 I think more and more people use private 1286 00:50:49,250 --> 00:50:51,708 health care, one because 1287 00:50:51,708 --> 00:50:53,458 the NHS is overstretched. 1288 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,750 And also, there are lots of new tests and 1289 00:50:57,750 --> 00:51:00,375 new things we're finding out. 1290 00:51:00,666 --> 00:51:01,333 We're learning. 1291 00:51:01,333 --> 00:51:05,125 There's a lot in cancer care and tests we 1292 00:51:05,125 --> 00:51:08,833 can do that prevent it or recognizing 1293 00:51:08,833 --> 00:51:09,916 cancer before it 1294 00:51:09,916 --> 00:51:11,375 actually becomes symptomatic. 1295 00:51:11,958 --> 00:51:15,208 And I think the private market is in that 1296 00:51:15,208 --> 00:51:16,708 field at the moment. 1297 00:51:17,541 --> 00:51:19,708 But also, I just think, as you say, 1298 00:51:19,708 --> 00:51:21,666 people are looking at longevity and are 1299 00:51:21,666 --> 00:51:22,000 more aware of the health. 1300 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,833 And I definitely think that middle age, 1301 00:51:24,833 --> 00:51:27,833 or you can, the younger person wants to 1302 00:51:27,833 --> 00:51:30,500 know if there's anything they can do and 1303 00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:34,000 whether losing weight affects whether you 1304 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,500 become too diabetic in the future. 1305 00:51:36,500 --> 00:51:38,666 And I think none of us want to sit at 1306 00:51:38,666 --> 00:51:40,208 home and not do anything. 1307 00:51:40,208 --> 00:51:41,333 We're not 60 now. 1308 00:51:41,333 --> 00:51:42,375 We'll sit in a chair and 1309 00:51:42,375 --> 00:51:43,958 never go out or do anything. 1310 00:51:44,291 --> 00:51:45,875 We're all fit and active. 1311 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,000 We all want to carry on 1312 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:49,583 anything forever, really. 1313 00:51:49,583 --> 00:51:51,208 So the more we can do it, the more 1314 00:51:51,208 --> 00:51:54,000 accessible private health 1315 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,166 care is, the better for us all. 1316 00:51:57,125 --> 00:51:59,000 And it will help the NHS in the long term 1317 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,958 that we're not sat in hospital with 1318 00:52:00,958 --> 00:52:02,458 similar problems that we perhaps could 1319 00:52:02,458 --> 00:52:04,041 have solved before bed. 1320 00:52:04,958 --> 00:52:06,000 Yeah, it's all about 1321 00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:07,166 prevention at the end of the day. 1322 00:52:07,875 --> 00:52:08,875 Cheryl, you've been a 1323 00:52:08,875 --> 00:52:09,500 star and a treasure. 1324 00:52:10,125 --> 00:52:12,291 Where is the best place to point people? 1325 00:52:12,291 --> 00:52:14,208 Should they want to learn more about the 1326 00:52:14,208 --> 00:52:16,541 work you do nationwide and where can they 1327 00:52:16,541 --> 00:52:17,791 maybe connect with you online? 1328 00:52:17,791 --> 00:52:19,416 What's your preferred social platform? 1329 00:52:19,416 --> 00:52:20,166 All that good stuff. 1330 00:52:20,458 --> 00:52:21,666 I think LinkedIn is 1331 00:52:21,666 --> 00:52:23,625 our most today platform. 1332 00:52:24,333 --> 00:52:25,916 We've got a really good page on there. 1333 00:52:25,916 --> 00:52:28,000 We put new things all the time. 1334 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:29,541 New tests we're doing. 1335 00:52:29,958 --> 00:52:30,916 We're bringing in house. 1336 00:52:31,541 --> 00:52:32,708 Our turnaround time. 1337 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,083 Our website is being 1338 00:52:36,083 --> 00:52:37,083 updated at the moment. 1339 00:52:37,250 --> 00:52:38,875 They can go to our website and they can 1340 00:52:38,875 --> 00:52:40,083 just call us anytime. 1341 00:52:40,958 --> 00:52:46,208 We're open six days a week till 10 in the 1342 00:52:46,208 --> 00:52:47,750 evening from half seven in the morning. 1343 00:52:48,666 --> 00:52:52,000 And our team are on hand to answer any 1344 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,500 questions or help anybody with any 1345 00:52:54,500 --> 00:52:57,625 questions that they want to ask. 1346 00:52:59,000 --> 00:52:59,125 Perfect. 1347 00:52:59,375 --> 00:53:01,041 And that website, you're all being 1348 00:53:01,041 --> 00:53:02,750 nationwide pathology.ca.uk. 1349 00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:03,375 Is that correct? 1350 00:53:03,666 --> 00:53:04,166 That's correct. 1351 00:53:04,833 --> 00:53:05,125 Perfect. 1352 00:53:05,416 --> 00:53:05,583 Awesome. 1353 00:53:06,166 --> 00:53:07,791 Well, thank you very much for your time. 1354 00:53:07,791 --> 00:53:09,166 This has been an amazing conversation. 1355 00:53:09,750 --> 00:53:11,083 And hopefully we can do another one at 1356 00:53:11,083 --> 00:53:11,791 some point in the future. 1357 00:53:12,250 --> 00:53:12,541 Okay. 1358 00:53:12,750 --> 00:53:14,041 Thank you, Rob.