Wendy Green:

Hello and welcome to the Hey Boomer show.

Wendy Green:

The show for those of us who believe that we are never too old to set another goal or

Wendy Green:

dream a new dream.

Wendy Green:

My name is Wendy Green and I am your host for Hey, Boomer.

Wendy Green:

And today I'm coming to you live from Asheville, North Carolina.

Wendy Green:

I am here at my daughter's house.

Wendy Green:

And tonight, we are going to see the Carolina Youth Symphony, where her son will

Wendy Green:

be playing percussion.

Wendy Green:

So I am definitely looking forward to that.

Wendy Green:

With the Hey Boomer show.

Wendy Green:

I always want people to walk away from each episode feeling like they met someone whose

Wendy Green:

story they could relate to or someone who they feel inspired by or they have learned

Wendy Green:

something from.

Wendy Green:

And in today's episode, the inspiration and learnings will come from our conversation

Wendy Green:

about moving on from loss with Linda Rivero.

Wendy Green:

And as I was preparing for this episode, I was thinking about what I wanted to do to

Wendy Green:

frame the conversation.

Wendy Green:

And I found a short essay from writer Monique Minahan.

Wendy Green:

And she wrote this when she lost a partner, which is similar to what happened with Linda

Wendy Green:

and what led her into the work that she's doing today.

Wendy Green:

So Monique wrote.

Wendy Green:

"Grief taught me.

Wendy Green:

Loss expands before it shrinks.

Wendy Green:

The list of what I've lost is not just one line, but pages long.

Wendy Green:

Sometimes because I didn't just lose a human being I loved.

Wendy Green:

I lost the sound of their feet in the hallway.

Wendy Green:

The water running as they brush their teeth.

Wendy Green:

The sight of their face down the hall.

Wendy Green:

The sound of their voice on the phone.

Wendy Green:

The ability to reach out and touch them.

Wendy Green:

Everyone's list is unique and endless.

Wendy Green:

I try to honor the living by not turning away from their list of loss, by not telling

Wendy Green:

them what it should contain, by not comparing my list to theirs.

Wendy Green:

This grief.

Wendy Green:

She's like a mother to me.

Wendy Green:

She birthed me into an experience I never asked for and many times was not sure I would

Wendy Green:

survive. But together we make it through this life, stumbling and learning, mourning

Wendy Green:

and celebrating.

Wendy Green:

Each step, teaching us all we need to know about what it means to live, to love and to

Wendy Green:

lose." In this episode, we will talk about grief and loss, how it can be overwhelming

Wendy Green:

and feel debilitating at times.

Wendy Green:

And we'll talk about moving on from these debilitating feelings to that place where we

Wendy Green:

can feel alive again.

Wendy Green:

Be open to love again and find things to celebrate again.

Wendy Green:

Linda Rivero is a counselor and a coach and the founder of 55AndBolder.co , and she will

Wendy Green:

help us understand more about this process.

Wendy Green:

And I'm going to introduce you to her in just a few minutes.

Wendy Green:

But before I do, I want to mention our sponsor, Road Scholar.

Wendy Green:

Road Scholar is the not for profit leader in educational travel for boomers and beyond.

Wendy Green:

They have trips to all 50 states and over 100 countries.

Wendy Green:

You know, I love traveling with Road Scholar and in fact, this summer I have two trips

Wendy Green:

planned. In June, I'm going to Costa Rica.

Wendy Green:

And I think some of you are joining me on that trip.

Wendy Green:

And then in July, I am taking my youngest grandson on a Windjammer cruise off the coast

Wendy Green:

of Maine with Road Scholar.

Wendy Green:

We're very much looking forward to that.

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So I promise that you will love your experience of traveling with Road Scholar.

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Go to their website at RoadScholar.Org/HeyBoomer, to check out all

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of their amazing educational adventures.

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And the Hey Boomer podcast is brought to you entirely free.

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It is a labor of love and it really does take a lot of time and effort to bring you

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high quality shows every week.

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So I have to ask two favors to ask of you.

Wendy Green:

First. I would like you to share this episode with friends or family, people that

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you know who would benefit from hearing us talk about moving on from loss or that would

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benefit from any of the shows that we do on Hey, Boomer.

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If you're listening live, you can tag them in the comments and that will let them know

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that you think they should listen or watch the rerun.

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And if you are listening to it on the podcast, please go ahead and like the show

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first and then share it with your friends.

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And if you want to support the work I'm doing, please go to

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BuyMeaCoffee.com/HeyBoomer0413.

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and contribute any amount that you feel comfortable with.

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I appreciate you and I will recognize you on the show.

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I'll recognize you in the newsletter for your contributions unless you tell me you

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want to remain anonymous.

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So thank you so much for that.

Wendy Green:

And now let me tell you a little bit about Linda.

Wendy Green:

She is the founder of 55AndBolder, a company dedicated to inspiring and guiding women 55

Wendy Green:

and beyond who have suffered a deep loss to reignite the zest for living we all had in

Wendy Green:

our youth. Through her coaching and her SOAR course s o a r soar course, Linda

Wendy Green:

lovingly guides her clients to discover and embrace the passionate, purpose driven

Wendy Green:

direction that gives their lives renewed meaning and leaves them feeling fulfilled,

Wendy Green:

thrilled and fabulous.

Wendy Green:

She believes that creativity and creative pursuits are keys to recapturing happiness.

Wendy Green:

A serial entrepreneur.

Wendy Green:

Linda has had a colorful career path.

Wendy Green:

She has been a counselor and an educator of teens and adults, an official circus

Wendy Green:

photographer and a university professor of Italian and Spanish.

Wendy Green:

As a travel planner, Linda was thrilled to receive national press recognition for her

Wendy Green:

hundreds of individualized creative tours of the Italian countryside.

Wendy Green:

She was also proud to be honored at the embassy of Cameroon for her inspiring work

Wendy Green:

bringing American women to Senegal, West Africa, to work with local Senegalese women

Wendy Green:

on urgently needed projects.

Wendy Green:

And during the past nine years, Linda has fulfilled a lifelong dream, dedicating her

Wendy Green:

personal time to developing her singing and studying vocal improvisation with master

Wendy Green:

improvisers Bobby McFerrin and Rhiannon.

Wendy Green:

So with that, let me introduce you to Linda.

Wendy Green:

Hi, Linda.

Linda Rivero:

Hi, Wendy.

Linda Rivero:

I'm so happy to be here.

Linda Rivero:

Thank you.

Wendy Green:

Yes. And I have enjoyed our conversation so far.

Wendy Green:

So I'm excited to bring you to to the audience.

Wendy Green:

So if you would, give us a little background.

Wendy Green:

What what happened that has so devastated you and now reinvigorated you to start this

Wendy Green:

new business?

Linda Rivero:

Right. A great lead in to that answer is referencing the quote that you opened your

Linda Rivero:

show with, particularly the beginning.

Linda Rivero:

I remember my husband died ten years ago.

Linda Rivero:

And at the time that he died, we had been close for 53 years because we were were kids,

Linda Rivero:

young kids together.

Linda Rivero:

So that's a lot of years to lose, to lose a relationship.

Linda Rivero:

And what she was saying at the beginning of her quote was that it's not just the loss of

Linda Rivero:

your partner. I remember after a few months and I was like a deer in headlights.

Linda Rivero:

I was just not I couldn't do anything except eat and watch movies, which was not not

Linda Rivero:

terribly healthy. But it got me through.

Linda Rivero:

Right. But I remember realizing one day, it's not just that I lost my husband, my

Linda Rivero:

partner. You lose everything.

Linda Rivero:

You lose everything. I mean, everything is completely upside down.

Linda Rivero:

And I distinctly remember telling a close girlfriend and I remember writing it in a

Linda Rivero:

journal. I felt like a dinghy alone in the dead of night in the midst of a black ocean.

Linda Rivero:

That that's exactly how it felt.

Linda Rivero:

So it's.

Linda Rivero:

It's so much more than, like, losing.

Linda Rivero:

Losing. Losing the guy.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah. It yeah.

Linda Rivero:

It reverberates in ways that that I never expected and I don't think anybody expects

Linda Rivero:

that. And I really don't think there's frankly personally I don't think there's any

Linda Rivero:

way to prepare for for that kind of loss except the experience.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah. You just don't know until you're in it.

Wendy Green:

And so you you were struggling in that.

Wendy Green:

And and something inspired you to say, I need to help other people.

Linda Rivero:

Right. Well, the first thing I had to do was help myself because I was nowhere.

Linda Rivero:

And after months and months went by, I remember I realized one day that.

Linda Rivero:

Um. Oh, my God. Life really is finite.

Linda Rivero:

Of course, we all know this, but I never knew it until I really knew it.

Linda Rivero:

You know, when that last moment comes, you're out of time.

Linda Rivero:

The sand has run dry.

Linda Rivero:

That's it. No more opportunities.

Linda Rivero:

And I remember asking myself, what is it that I would would be distraught, dying

Linda Rivero:

without having tried?

Linda Rivero:

What do I need to do before I have no more time?

Linda Rivero:

And immediately I knew the answer.

Linda Rivero:

And for me, it was it was music.

Linda Rivero:

And I have a lot of music in my in my personal background, but singing in

Linda Rivero:

particular. And that's when I just said, okay, I'm going to do this.

Linda Rivero:

And I was in my 60 seconds.

Linda Rivero:

I mean, it's not so easy getting your voice back in your 60s, boy, because things change.

Linda Rivero:

But I found a wonderful turned out to be perfect for me vocal coach.

Linda Rivero:

And she she got me back and I worked hard at it.

Linda Rivero:

And then I became just enchanted with, with, with free style improvisation as opposed to,

Linda Rivero:

like, jazz improvisation, which people are more familiar with Ella Fitzgerald and who's,

Linda Rivero:

you know, the top of the top of skill.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah. But not it's not that it's more creating music on the spot.

Linda Rivero:

Like I didn't know where to start.

Linda Rivero:

And the master of that, of course, is Bobby McFerrin.

Linda Rivero:

For those who are familiar with it and a colleague of his, a singer he's been working

Linda Rivero:

with for like 45 years.

Linda Rivero:

Her name is Rhiannon, not the young Rhiannon.

Linda Rivero:

It's a different man.

Linda Rivero:

And I started working with I started working with her, going to workshops and traveling

Linda Rivero:

all over the place, following her around, and I finally auditioned for and got into her

Linda Rivero:

what she calls her master class.

Linda Rivero:

That went on for a year.

Linda Rivero:

And so I really got into it seriously and loved it.

Linda Rivero:

And now, even now I'm still doing groups of their small groups.

Linda Rivero:

But I'm I keep the skill going.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah. You know, somewhat.

Linda Rivero:

So it's good.

Linda Rivero:

And it just brought me back to life.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah. And that and then after that, I started as I was doing that, I started

Linda Rivero:

thinking, you know. It's there's when I look back, there was essentially a system.

Linda Rivero:

I didn't know it, but.

Linda Rivero:

I could see a system in this, you know?

Linda Rivero:

And that's when I started thinking, well, why don't I help other people?

Linda Rivero:

Because it can be really, really tricky finding your way through when you feel you're

Linda Rivero:

ready to find your way through.

Linda Rivero:

Which is different from being in the thick of grief.

Wendy Green:

Right. And so it sounds like the first thing that helped you start to find your way back

Wendy Green:

or through I think through is a better word than think.

Linda Rivero:

Through is a better word.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah.

Wendy Green:

So was was asking yourself that question.

Wendy Green:

What would I what would I miss if I died now?

Wendy Green:

What would I have not what I have left unfinished.

Linda Rivero:

Right? Exactly.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah, exactly. It's a very motivating question.

Linda Rivero:

When you're ready to ask it.

Wendy Green:

Yeah. And you asked it while you were still in the depths of despair?

Linda Rivero:

Yes, I was.

Linda Rivero:

But I knew.

Linda Rivero:

I knew. At the simultaneously with the with the depths was this little light

Linda Rivero:

of realization that time ends.

Linda Rivero:

It ends one day it's ends.

Linda Rivero:

It's over.

Linda Rivero:

And I think that little, little opening just got a little bit bigger and a little bit

Linda Rivero:

bigger as I focused on it more.

Linda Rivero:

And then follow through.

Wendy Green:

So. So I was thinking about this, you know, before we came on.

Wendy Green:

And and I think when you've been in a long term relationship, part of your definition of

Wendy Green:

yourself is as part of that relationship.

Wendy Green:

Right. And all of a sudden that's taken away from you.

Wendy Green:

Was this question part of how you found who you were separate from that relationship, or

Wendy Green:

are there other things that you would.

Wendy Green:

So to recommend.

Linda Rivero:

Ah, well, that's an interesting question.

Linda Rivero:

I always I loved my husband very deeply.

Linda Rivero:

At at the same time, I always felt separate.

Linda Rivero:

I never felt like I was swallowed up in the relationship.

Linda Rivero:

I just wasn't me.

Linda Rivero:

So. I never.

Linda Rivero:

I don't know. I didn't feel it.

Linda Rivero:

But what did happen when he died is that.

Linda Rivero:

Though he was my foundation, I always remembered that he was my anchor.

Linda Rivero:

I had no more anchor.

Linda Rivero:

Hence the dinghy in the middle of the ocean.

Linda Rivero:

So I'm not sure if I'm going.

Wendy Green:

I'm thinking, you know, like when when you are out with as a couple, you know, this is

Wendy Green:

my husband right now.

Wendy Green:

You're the wife. You're you know, you're in a partnership.

Wendy Green:

Yes. And and now you're out.

Wendy Green:

If you're even going out and you're like, who are you?

Wendy Green:

You know? Well, I'm Linda, but.

Wendy Green:

Right. I'm no longer a wife, you know, And yeah, I'm not working now because I'm so

Wendy Green:

depressed. I don't know what to be doing with myself.

Wendy Green:

So I guess that was really what I was thinking about, like, who are you?

Wendy Green:

How do you figure that out again?

Linda Rivero:

For me, the the the path to figuring it out again was what I described.

Linda Rivero:

It was the realization that I have to do whatever it is I have to do.

Linda Rivero:

I'm not even sure what it is and focusing on that and getting an answer and following

Linda Rivero:

through and that that led to more that led to 55 and Boulder that it it just opened up

Linda Rivero:

more and more as as I allowed that in.

Wendy Green:

Okay, So you have a system.

Wendy Green:

Is that the source or is that.

Wendy Green:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wendy Green:

Can you tell me more about that?

Linda Rivero:

Well, the Yes, sir, is.

Linda Rivero:

The fact quote the little sub the fast path to uncovering what's next after your loved

Linda Rivero:

one is gone. So it is a six week course and it's a it's the entry level course.

Linda Rivero:

S stands for set your intentions for major components.

Linda Rivero:

O obliterate your obstacles.

Linda Rivero:

So we talk about what's in your way because there's always stuff in your way.

Linda Rivero:

And the strategy for dealing with that and getting it out of your way.

Linda Rivero:

A Accelerate your progress using the science of your brain, meaning neuroplasticity, and

Linda Rivero:

how we can actually engage our brain to make real changes and ah,

Linda Rivero:

Rejoice in your results.

Linda Rivero:

Begin to feel the the, the feedback, you know, sort of the energy feedback and changes

Linda Rivero:

in your life as you move through the process so hence soar.

Wendy Green:

I love the acronym because it really does kind of get you up into that vibrant feeling

Wendy Green:

again.

Linda Rivero:

Yes, exactly it does.

Wendy Green:

So is this a group workshop or is this individual.

Linda Rivero:

It's a group class.

Linda Rivero:

And then with a lot of interaction from me and and then goes into a more extended group

Linda Rivero:

program and private private coaching.

Linda Rivero:

Okay.

Wendy Green:

All right. Well, super important work.

Wendy Green:

So what are some of the.

Wendy Green:

Go ahead.

Linda Rivero:

No, I just had a thought.

Linda Rivero:

Uh, I think it's important to note that.

Linda Rivero:

Uh, that it's.

Linda Rivero:

We can't wait for things to be perfect to start moving.

Linda Rivero:

I think when we start to get those little whispers, I'm really I'm a big believer in

Linda Rivero:

the importance of intuition.

Linda Rivero:

When we start to get a little whisper, it's so important to hear it and to pay attention

Linda Rivero:

to it and move along.

Linda Rivero:

Not expecting grief to be gone.

Linda Rivero:

I don't think it's ever gone.

Linda Rivero:

But we learn to live with it and it certainly changes and it diminishes in in the

Linda Rivero:

sense that it doesn't occupy.

Linda Rivero:

Our whole life anymore.

Linda Rivero:

But it has it has its place and it's sort of like a partner.

Linda Rivero:

You just we just kind of keep going.

Linda Rivero:

Um, but, but to not wait for a perfect moment.

Linda Rivero:

Well, okay, I'm ready now.

Linda Rivero:

I'm. I think I'm ready to start painting again.

Linda Rivero:

Well, then just pick up a paintbrush and see what happens is.

Linda Rivero:

Is, you know, take whatever little pieces you can get and build on those.

Wendy Green:

Yeah, because you mentioned before, when people are ready, they have to be ready to

Wendy Green:

move on. Yeah.

Linda Rivero:

How do you know it's not right?

Linda Rivero:

It's not an all or nothing thing.

Linda Rivero:

And again, I think yeah, it's it's so it's such a gray area and it's so individual.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah. So it's, it's, it is hard to define but I think that the.

Linda Rivero:

I dare say the universal.

Linda Rivero:

Peace of knowing when you're ready is when you just get those little whispers.

Linda Rivero:

You just have little sense of little is something else, and then maybe it's gone.

Linda Rivero:

But then it comes again.

Linda Rivero:

There's something else.

Linda Rivero:

And you start hearing it and listening and following along.

Linda Rivero:

Also breadcrumbs.

Wendy Green:

Like breadcrumbs. But it sounds like also finding ways to support yourself when you

Wendy Green:

hear that because we have so many fears and self doubts, right?

Wendy Green:

So how can how can friends and family and people like you support folks that are just

Wendy Green:

starting to hear that little whisper, but they're like, I don't know.

Linda Rivero:

Right. You know, I think with with loss, I think.

Linda Rivero:

It's what?

Linda Rivero:

What. What has.

Linda Rivero:

I withdrew.

Linda Rivero:

That's what I did.

Linda Rivero:

I mean, that was what I did.

Linda Rivero:

And I only I spoke to my children and maybe one really close friend.

Linda Rivero:

Um, but people are different and some people are have much stronger need for social

Linda Rivero:

engagement when they're down.

Linda Rivero:

And unfortunately, what I've heard many times is that they lose friends.

Linda Rivero:

People stop calling, people stop coming over, and it's because they don't know what

Linda Rivero:

to say.

Linda Rivero:

People have no idea what to say and they think, Well, I'll give her time.

Linda Rivero:

Well, I'll leave her alone. Meanwhile, she may really need to see you.

Linda Rivero:

Uh, I, I for me, I think it's so important to get to.

Linda Rivero:

To have contact with people who understand.

Linda Rivero:

In my case, I had a bereavement counselor, and I was in a bereavement group, and I'm not

Linda Rivero:

much of a group joiner, but I had.

Linda Rivero:

I had to do something and it made all the difference and enabled me to move forward,

Linda Rivero:

not only because people understood, but there's a lot of a lot of understanding and

Linda Rivero:

there's laughter.

Linda Rivero:

You know, we're all in this.

Linda Rivero:

And it does have its funny moments, especially when you're able to share it and

Linda Rivero:

feel the trust of people who have been where you are.

Linda Rivero:

That's a whole different experience from sharing it with with a friend who may love

Linda Rivero:

you but doesn't know how to navigate it.

Wendy Green:

Yeah, because that is hard for a lot of people to know what to say.

Wendy Green:

And and I, you know, I have found and been.

Wendy Green:

Coached that sometimes you don't have to say anything just to be there.

Wendy Green:

Yeah. You know, be okay with the silence.

Linda Rivero:

Right. I agree.

Linda Rivero:

And that is also hard for some people to do.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah, they may love the idea and want to, but I feel so weird and I feel like I should

Linda Rivero:

help. And it's hard.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah. You know, we don't live in a society that that teaches us how to be silent and and

Linda Rivero:

happy with it. Yeah.

Linda Rivero:

You know, we're very. Go, go, go, go.

Linda Rivero:

Right.

Wendy Green:

I see a couple of our listeners say that when they were dealing with grief and hard

Wendy Green:

feelings, they wrote.

Wendy Green:

They wrote poems.

Wendy Green:

They wrote. Yes.

Wendy Green:

That they shared things on grief websites.

Wendy Green:

Writing can be a very healing activity.

Linda Rivero:

And that goes right into creativity.

Linda Rivero:

Mhm. I mean it's a major artery for energy and getting, getting to, getting into another

Linda Rivero:

place. Writing is super.

Linda Rivero:

Of course. It's very, very, very powerful.

Linda Rivero:

And if, if, if, if writing resonates with you, boy.

Linda Rivero:

Keep going. Just write and write and write.

Linda Rivero:

For me, it was music.

Linda Rivero:

But it comes. What is it about?

Wendy Green:

But what is it about creativity?

Wendy Green:

You know, I know when my father died, my.

Wendy Green:

My mother will always say she's not creative, but she decided to learn how to

Wendy Green:

play the ukulele.

Wendy Green:

So what is it about creativity that seems to have such a positive impact on us when we're

Wendy Green:

grieving?

Linda Rivero:

For one thing, creative activity.

Linda Rivero:

It takes us outside of ourselves.

Linda Rivero:

It we're focusing on something else and it tunes us into another piece other than the

Linda Rivero:

intellectual, the rote that's going on that we're struggling with.

Linda Rivero:

He's lost. He's gone.

Linda Rivero:

He's gone. He's gone. He's gone.

Linda Rivero:

He's gone. You know, it removes us.

Linda Rivero:

If you're writing it, you know, it comes out on the page.

Linda Rivero:

If if I'm focusing on my on developing my voice, I'm focusing on developing my voice.

Linda Rivero:

And all that energy goes there.

Linda Rivero:

You know, if it's if it's watercolors, it's water, it's whatever it is, you know, it can

Linda Rivero:

be it can be fashion design, whatever you like.

Linda Rivero:

But but if let's say it's fashion design for someone in that category because they know

Linda Rivero:

someone for whom that that's the case And, you know, she she got to the point where she

Linda Rivero:

could look online and just look for designers that she loved and look look at

Linda Rivero:

stuff and take out her pad and start drawing on her colors.

Linda Rivero:

And it's all the same source.

Linda Rivero:

It's just different expressions in different people.

Linda Rivero:

But it's magical that removes us from ourselves and it also gives us a sense of

Linda Rivero:

power.

Wendy Green:

Oh, tell me more about that.

Linda Rivero:

Well, a sense of control.

Linda Rivero:

If a woman is writing a lot, it there's this it's energy shift that it gets out and

Linda Rivero:

and it's in front of you.

Linda Rivero:

And then the words are there whether you read them or you don't.

Linda Rivero:

It's it's there.

Linda Rivero:

And there's a power in that.

Linda Rivero:

And if I'm if I'm recording myself even, you know, marginally better, it's it's I know I

Linda Rivero:

did it and I know I sound better than I did last time, etcetera.

Linda Rivero:

And it applies to any.

Wendy Green:

So what about people that are self-critical and they're like, I have no talent.

Wendy Green:

I have no, I'm not creative, you know, What do you how do you deal with them?

Linda Rivero:

But, you know, the first thing that comes to my mind is meditation.

Linda Rivero:

To get quiet because I.

Linda Rivero:

I don't believe that.

Linda Rivero:

I think everybody has it maybe to very.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah. To varying degrees, perhaps.

Linda Rivero:

But your mother.

Linda Rivero:

I'm not creative but she picked up.

Linda Rivero:

Why are ukulele.

Linda Rivero:

Why didn't you know?

Linda Rivero:

But there you go.

Linda Rivero:

Case in point, I think we do all have that.

Linda Rivero:

But if we're unable to allow that possibility, then that gets into

Linda Rivero:

perfectionism and our expectations.

Linda Rivero:

And well, if I don't write like Byron, I can't write.

Linda Rivero:

You know, and it's a problem.

Linda Rivero:

It really it is a.

Wendy Green:

Problem, right?

Linda Rivero:

It stops us.

Linda Rivero:

And and of course, that is that's high anxiety about what we think we should be

Linda Rivero:

capable of, not expression and not allowing ourselves the luxury of just opening up.

Linda Rivero:

And that's why I said meditation, because it, you know, it does bring down the the

Linda Rivero:

energy to a manageable, quiet, quiet level.

Wendy Green:

And you just used an important word you said should.

Wendy Green:

And I would imagine as you were coming out of this loss, a lot of people were shooting

Wendy Green:

on you. You know, you should be better by now, Linda.

Wendy Green:

You should jump. Come on, Linda, Buck yourself up.

Wendy Green:

And, uh. Yeah.

Wendy Green:

What what what are some of the shoulds that you heard and how do you deal with those?

Linda Rivero:

Uh, my mother was remarkable, and she was a great mom in many ways.

Linda Rivero:

However, this kind of understanding was not her strong suit.

Linda Rivero:

And maybe a couple of years after, after my husband died, we were talking about that.

Linda Rivero:

And she said.

Linda Rivero:

Boy, you really you were really down there.

Linda Rivero:

And I said, Well, yeah.

Linda Rivero:

And I said, Well, it was a very deep loss.

Linda Rivero:

You said, Yeah, but you went overboard.

Linda Rivero:

I mean that's really. Yeah, I know you don't say that, but she did.

Linda Rivero:

I mean, this is the one thing about my mother and it's negative, but she.

Linda Rivero:

She had a lot of your mother.

Linda Rivero:

We love. Yeah, I love my mother, too.

Linda Rivero:

And she's gone. But I miss her and I love her.

Linda Rivero:

But that just.

Linda Rivero:

Well, that hurt because it was my mother.

Linda Rivero:

But I just tried to change the channel and just, you know, call a good friend who

Linda Rivero:

wasn't going to say something like that and kind of counterbalance it.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah. And people, you know, if people are nobody was ever intrusive with me about that

Linda Rivero:

because I don't I don't because they weren't I don't really allow that kind of thing.

Linda Rivero:

But it that can certainly happen if you have friends that you love.

Linda Rivero:

But sometimes they kind of overstep and if possible to to just have the wherewithal to

Linda Rivero:

say back off.

Linda Rivero:

Just back off.

Wendy Green:

Yeah. And I think we do it to ourselves.

Wendy Green:

You know, we might look out a year or two and say, I should be over this by now, you

Wendy Green:

know? But like you said, you never.

Linda Rivero:

Totally you never you're never totally over it.

Linda Rivero:

Someone was referring to to it yesterday as, as I'm I want to be done with grief.

Linda Rivero:

And my response to that is, well, look, good luck with that.

Linda Rivero:

But you never get really done with it.

Linda Rivero:

But it does morph, It changes.

Linda Rivero:

And, uh, here's a very interesting case in point that completely astonished me.

Linda Rivero:

My husband died ten years ago, and we his sons and my son, the three boys and I went

Linda Rivero:

down to the Outer Banks in North Carolina to do this little ritual that he requested when

Linda Rivero:

he died. So we did that, and that was ten years ago.

Linda Rivero:

And this year was the 10th anniversary.

Linda Rivero:

And I gathered the boys and I said, I'd like to repeat that.

Linda Rivero:

And they said, okay.

Linda Rivero:

So we went down and repeated.

Linda Rivero:

I mean, it was a happy thing, but we repeated it.

Linda Rivero:

And to my complete astonishment, it was closure for me.

Linda Rivero:

I couldn't believe it.

Linda Rivero:

I thought I was there.

Linda Rivero:

I thought I was done.

Linda Rivero:

But but apparently not.

Linda Rivero:

And it was doing that that made me realize he's really gone.

Linda Rivero:

I mean, he's seriously not coming back.

Linda Rivero:

And it it was so surprising.

Linda Rivero:

It was so surprising that that was still in there to be to be resolved after all that.

Wendy Green:

Time.

Linda Rivero:

After all that time and all that activity.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah. I mean, I do stuff, you know.

Wendy Green:

Right. You do stuff and you work with people and.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Linda Rivero:

And it was surprising and it.

Linda Rivero:

It feels good, but it doesn't mean I forgot him.

Linda Rivero:

I think about him every day, you know?

Linda Rivero:

Right. Right. And I'm sorry.

Linda Rivero:

He's. I mean, I wish he were here.

Linda Rivero:

There's still times, and I guess enough already.

Linda Rivero:

Where are you? Enough of this game.

Linda Rivero:

But it's. It's.

Linda Rivero:

It's done. It's over.

Linda Rivero:

And it happens in life.

Wendy Green:

It does. It does.

Wendy Green:

I've had a few comments here about loss in the family of siblings, children.

Wendy Green:

Those are not the kinds of clients that you work with.

Wendy Green:

Is that.

Linda Rivero:

Right? No, I really work primarily with people who have lost a partner.

Linda Rivero:

Um. And I think that and we've said this in our own conversations, but there are

Linda Rivero:

certainly similarities in loss.

Linda Rivero:

But I think there are also differences in dealing with the loss of the loss of God

Linda Rivero:

knows what the loss of a child, which I truly cannot I can't I don't feel equipped to

Linda Rivero:

address that. I have no experience in that.

Linda Rivero:

And if someone were to come with me and and present that, I would I would help that

Linda Rivero:

person find the, you know, the right, the right support system.

Linda Rivero:

It's not so.

Wendy Green:

And I appreciate that about you, Linda.

Wendy Green:

So, I mean, you have you have a background, you are trained therapist, counselor and a

Wendy Green:

trained coach.

Wendy Green:

And and you're bringing yourself your whole self to this, having lived it and experienced

Wendy Green:

it. And I think that makes you an even more empathetic guide for the clients that you

Wendy Green:

get.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah, Thank you.

Linda Rivero:

I do feel strongly about that.

Linda Rivero:

And the more I do it, the more strongly I feel about how important it is that to have

Linda Rivero:

my story.

Linda Rivero:

Because I really can hear someone else's story.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah. And and work with that understanding.

Wendy Green:

And connect with them on that level and connect that way.

Wendy Green:

Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy Green:

So soar is the entry level.

Wendy Green:

What goes beyond that?

Linda Rivero:

Well, we go from from a six week to a six month.

Linda Rivero:

And it's the same material.

Linda Rivero:

But of course, we go deeper.

Linda Rivero:

You know, it's like it's like the proverbial onion.

Linda Rivero:

We can do the first layer, but it's not going to erase everything that's underneath.

Linda Rivero:

And so then we go back, but we go deeper and it's more talk.

Linda Rivero:

It's different exercises.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah, yeah.

Linda Rivero:

A deeper dive.

Wendy Green:

And, you know, I was just thinking about the ritual that you and your sons all experienced

Wendy Green:

once when he died.

Wendy Green:

And now, ten years later.

Wendy Green:

Do you talk about rituals with your clients?

Wendy Green:

Finding a ritual for saying goodbye?

Linda Rivero:

Yes. I mean, some people connect with that, some don't.

Linda Rivero:

You know, it doesn't resonate and that's fine.

Linda Rivero:

But, you know, rituals have been around since forever, since human life.

Linda Rivero:

And there's a reason, you know, they they ground us.

Linda Rivero:

They ground us, and they place us in time and in our lives.

Linda Rivero:

You know, a wedding is a ritual, you know, a confirmation, a baptism, a briss, whatever it

Linda Rivero:

is. There are reasons.

Linda Rivero:

And I think that creating our own family rituals and particularly around death and

Linda Rivero:

some some cultures have those built in and others really don't.

Linda Rivero:

So. If you create your own, that's good.

Wendy Green:

Yeah, because I think it can be really helpful.

Wendy Green:

I'm not a death expert either, but, you know, I feel like it it.

Wendy Green:

It makes it more easy to talk about, right?

Wendy Green:

As you said, people don't know what to say.

Wendy Green:

They don't know how to address you.

Wendy Green:

You don't know how to talk to them about it.

Wendy Green:

If you form some kind of ritual, some clothes, like a funeral is a ritual, too.

Linda Rivero:

Right. Right.

Wendy Green:

But some way to say goodbye and to get closure.

Wendy Green:

I think it makes it.

Wendy Green:

It normalizes it a little bit.

Linda Rivero:

Yes. Yes.

Linda Rivero:

The the funeral, of course, is a ritual.

Linda Rivero:

The thing with the funerals is that it's so soon after the loss.

Linda Rivero:

Right. It's it's coming back a month later, three months later, six months later.

Linda Rivero:

And but you can do that in, you know, in with your with your children or if if that's

Linda Rivero:

the kind of relationship ship that you have or with your whoever is close to you, you

Linda Rivero:

know, with your closest friend, with your sister, with your however that works in

Linda Rivero:

someone's life. But yeah, I agree.

Linda Rivero:

I think it is important.

Linda Rivero:

And and I realized it was more important than I even realized this this time when we

Linda Rivero:

redid this ritual after ten years and I realized the impact it had on me.

Wendy Green:

Yeah. Well, something else you can add to your class.

Linda Rivero:

Right, right.

Wendy Green:

Right. I'll ask you someone, any of the listeners that might be dealing with a loss

Wendy Green:

like this or know there's one coming up.

Wendy Green:

Are there are there a couple of takeaways that you can leave with people to help them

Wendy Green:

start to move on from a loss?

Linda Rivero:

The we.

Linda Rivero:

The first again, the first thing that comes to my mind is something we hear all the time.

Linda Rivero:

So it's overused, it's hackneyed.

Linda Rivero:

We hear it, but it's true.

Linda Rivero:

Which is taking care of yourself.

Linda Rivero:

Which is really hard to do.

Wendy Green:

Really hard to do. When you feel so down, you feel awful.

Linda Rivero:

Or if you're around the clock care taker, which I experienced and I'm actually

Linda Rivero:

experiencing it again with with someone else.

Linda Rivero:

Not a partner though, a very close friend.

Linda Rivero:

Um, it's, it's exhausting.

Linda Rivero:

And it, it saps, it saps everything.

Linda Rivero:

It, it not only saps our energy, like we aren't sleeping enough or we're not sleeping

Linda Rivero:

well, but it saps our focus on, just on, on, on just getting quiet.

Linda Rivero:

I'm getting centered.

Linda Rivero:

So, you know, it's the same.

Linda Rivero:

I feel apologetic saying self care because it's so canned, but it's canned for a reason.

Linda Rivero:

It it it works and it and it's it's necessary.

Linda Rivero:

I don't think you can move on without starting to listen to yourself.

Linda Rivero:

And how can you start to hear that little whisper that I was talking about earlier if

Linda Rivero:

you never get quiet.

Linda Rivero:

And how can you get quiet if you never sleep or you never take a moment for yourself or

Linda Rivero:

you never take a hot bath or whatever works for you or meditate.

Linda Rivero:

And maybe it's possible.

Linda Rivero:

Maybe it's not. Maybe you're too agitated to meditate, but whatever it is, taking a walk.

Linda Rivero:

In anything by the water, by the flowers, whatever it is.

Linda Rivero:

But you need to know what it is and do it.

Linda Rivero:

And it can be really hard.

Linda Rivero:

Sometimes you just really don't want to.

Linda Rivero:

I don't want to take the stupid bath.

Linda Rivero:

I don't want to run the I don't want to do it.

Linda Rivero:

But. It might be better if you did, you know.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah.

Wendy Green:

Yeah. So self care and and then start.

Wendy Green:

I think the other thing is to start to trust that little voice that's talking about

Wendy Green:

creative. Try it.

Wendy Green:

Try it.

Linda Rivero:

Right, right, right.

Linda Rivero:

That little voice, that saying anything, I mean, you know.

Linda Rivero:

Well, call that person or.

Linda Rivero:

Go to that. Try that group.

Linda Rivero:

Connect with those people.

Linda Rivero:

You know, it's always little intuition doesn't hit us over the head.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah, it will.

Linda Rivero:

It'll be there if we're if we're attuned to the existence of it and we believe in it and

Linda Rivero:

we rely on it because it's us.

Linda Rivero:

It's what's in us.

Linda Rivero:

Right. It's.

Linda Rivero:

Yeah.

Wendy Green:

Well, I appreciate.

Wendy Green:

What you shared with us today and what you are sharing with others.

Wendy Green:

So let me show people how they can reach out to you.

Wendy Green:

You know, people we never know when we're dealing going to have to deal with.

Linda Rivero:

Something like this. Right.

Linda Rivero:

Thank you. Thank you.

Wendy Green:

Yeah. So you can email Linda at Rivero, Rivero Linda at gmail.com

Wendy Green:

and you can check out her website which is the number 55 and Boulder Co not comm but

Wendy Green:

CO and you'll find all kinds of resources there and articles.

Wendy Green:

You know what Linda's all about.

Wendy Green:

You'll get more ideas about Linda at 55 and Boulder CO.

Linda Rivero:

Yes thank you Wendy and also have a little.

Wendy Green:

You have your. Giveaway.

Wendy Green:

Yes. Tell us about the giveaway.

Linda Rivero:

It's really hard to anyway, rather than do this chaotic on screen thing, it's seven

Linda Rivero:

Soothing secrets to Happiness for the mature Woman in Transition and their seven Soothing

Linda Rivero:

secrets. Ways to start moving forward as as you were just asking me that that are

Linda Rivero:

comforting, that feel good and are doable to start going forward and at 55 in boulder.co

Linda Rivero:

they'll there's a little spot you know they'll be able to put in their name there

Linda Rivero:

and I'll be happy to share that I think it's I think it's good I think it's worthwhile.

Wendy Green:

Right. Well I appreciate that.

Wendy Green:

Linda. Thank you.

Linda Rivero:

Thank you. Thank you.

Linda Rivero:

Wendy. Yeah.

Wendy Green:

So before I let you all go, I want you to remember, please to share this episode with

Wendy Green:

your friends and family.

Wendy Green:

It really does help to grow the show the more that you share it and if you like the

Wendy Green:

content of what we're doing, you can support the work by going to the website, buy me a

Wendy Green:

coffee.com and then you would say slash hey Boomer 0413 and you can support any amount

Wendy Green:

that you feel good about.

Wendy Green:

I would greatly appreciate that.

Wendy Green:

And also make sure that you check out Road Scholar.

Wendy Green:

Just just go and have fun and look at their site.

Wendy Green:

Road Road Scholar.

Wendy Green:

Org slash.

Wendy Green:

Hey Boomer. And it's important that you add the slash hey Boomer so that they know that

Wendy Green:

you heard about them from the hey boomer show.

Wendy Green:

And next week.

Wendy Green:

Next week we take another turn.

Wendy Green:

And my guest is a woman named Julie Noonan.

Wendy Green:

And Julie has been an organizational change leader.

Wendy Green:

And just about the time the pandemic shut us down, she decided to go out on her own as a

Wendy Green:

consultant and she became a certified executive coach.

Wendy Green:

And she primarily works with owners of small businesses.

Wendy Green:

So Julie and I are going to talk about some of the emotional fallout that companies feel

Wendy Green:

or that individuals feel when they are separating from the small business that they

Wendy Green:

grew and nurtured for many, many years.

Wendy Green:

So join us for that.

Wendy Green:

That should be interesting.

Wendy Green:

And I'd like to leave you all with the belief that we can all live with curiosity,

Wendy Green:

live with relevance, and live with courage.

Wendy Green:

And remember that you are never too old to set another goal or dream a new dream.

Wendy Green:

My name is Wendy Green and this has been.