Welcome to the Continuing Education for Mental Health Professionals Podcast. Today we are hosting our very first CEU Provider Spotlight Conversation. This is where we will learn more about CEU providers in our community and their journeys. My name is Natasha Moharter and I'm a licensed counselor and OCD specialist. I run the Facebook group CE for Mental Health Professionals. I am so excited because we are joined by our very special guests Danielle Henderson and Meghin Lisi with THRIVE. Training Hub for Anxiety and OCD Intervention and Education. We're honored to have them here sharing their wisdom and helping us learn about the wonderful new resources they've created to help others in the field. So just to get to know our spotlighted CEU providers a little bit more, we have Danielle Henderson. She has a doctorate degree in clinical psychology and over 16 years of clinical experience. She's an LPC in Pennsylvania and has specialized in treating OCD and anxiety disorders for over six years. She has several years of experience teaching therapists of all experience levels how to treat OCD and anxiety disorders using Exposure and Response Prevention therapy. In addition to this, Danielle has experience teaching several undergraduate courses, as well as teaching and training medical students. She has led consultation groups for licensed professionals and supervised pre-doctoral students. Danielle is also on the Women's Health Research Committee at a local university. She loves coffee, playing video games, hanging out with her family, and doing various arts and crafts projects. Another fun fact about Danielle is that, in another life, she made digital art for content creators on a streaming platform. Welcome, Danielle. We are so, so happy to have you here today.

Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

And let's go into introducing our next guest, Meghin Lisi. Meghin is a practicing licensed marriage and family therapist residing in New York, and she's the co-founder of THRIVE... Meghin has dedicated the most recent half of her career to specializing in the treatment of OCD and anxiety disorders using Exposure and Response Prevention therapy. As the co-founder of THRIVE., Meghin, along with her business partner, create training content, provide education and consultation services, as well as executing program development for other providers and practices looking to specialize in treating OCD and related disorders. Teaching has been a long standing passion of Meghin's within the mental health profession, and she has extensive experience providing education to pre-licensed and licensed clinicians, including time spent serving as an adjunct professor at the graduate level. Meghin has and continues to dedicate her career to serving stigmatized populations and ensuring clinicians are supported and given the best resources to carry out their work confidently and competently. Meghin, such a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks for having me.

I'm so looking forward to this conversation today. We got to meet briefly before, um, so just a kind of little quick fact about how we connected. Networking is important. I have the Facebook group, Continuing Education for Mental Health Professionals. I believe, Danielle, you joined that first and then we kind of connected on LinkedIn. And then Meghin and Danielle did a really, really fun video for Friday the 13th. And I loved it. I just laughed. I was in the car watching it and I was like, this is amazing. And so, um, Danielle had reached out. We set up a kind of meet and greet virtually like this. And, uh, it was just really clear at that point that you're just amazing colleagues to have in general, amazing CEU providers in the field, OCD specialists, as a fellow OCD specialist, I am so honored to be spotlighting you all as the first, member spotlight here. Can you share a little bit about your background? And what got you interested in becoming creators and CEU providers?

Yeah, that's great. Thank you. So both of us worked together, in the same company, where we were treating OCD, and we were also training other clinicians in how to do ERP or Exposure and Response Prevention for clients who have OCD. And training is something that both of us have been really, really passionate about. I come from a, teaching background, Meghin does as well, but I'll let her speak to that, and we're both really, really passionate about therapist education. So thinking of ways that we could incorporate that more into THRIVE...

Yeah, absolutely. And I'd say. You know, just personally, my mom is a teacher, or was a teacher, she's retired now. Kind of got the teaching genes all throughout my family. So it's ironic because I never wanted to be a classroom teacher, but once I got into the field, I realized that I didn't always want to just do direct clinical work, that there was like this area within our profession where we could provide education to other providers. And that really got me very excited and interested. So started being able to implement that in the corporate world. And that's how Danielle and I connected and then decided like, we want to be able to do this for ourselves. So we, um, we both have that teaching background and I also got to work in a CE program in a past life as well, which was fun.

It's incredible. So. Uh, very much interested in kind of like you said that teaching aspect, sharing knowledge, wisdom. Teaching isn't always easy. Teaching can come with its challenges, but I think you have to have a certain passion for it. I definitely have seen that from both of you, especially in the content you've already created and in your current endeavors.

Thank you. Yeah, yeah, it's really great when you get to take something you're passionate about and then actually apply and bring it to life, so to speak.

Yeah, for sure. I agree.

Absolutely. So next question, what have been your favorite parts of this journey into content creation and training? Yeah. So we're both really creative people and that's something that's been fun, whether it's, creating materials, creating flyers and different kind of, materials like that has been really great. And then also being able to make something that's completely ours. So being able to learn from past experiences, what we like, what we didn't like, and just being able to make something that we feel really proud of and we know is good content.

Yeah, and I think part of that is just getting the ability to connect with other clinicians creatively as well and work directly with the therapist more and play a role in this profession that's different than, like I said, just direct clinical care as much as we both value that and we both actively practice as clinicians. We also wanted to be able to get our hands into things that was us. It was for us by us. And we're able to provide that to other people in our own style. But the creativity piece is probably one of our favorites across the board because we get to make something from nothing that is entirely our two brains that come together, which is super fun.

I think it's important, when you are content creators to have that passion and that interest in creativity, because it can make some of those other things like tech stacks and, advertising and marketing like a little bit easier.

Yes.

It does sound like, and this is something that I've done as well in my content creation journey is I when I attend other professional trainings, I write notes and I have actually a form that says, this is what I really liked. Definitely add this. This didn't work so well. Let's kind of leave that out or, Oh, maybe I've done that in the past. Let's kind of rewrite that a little bit. Oh, that didn't land as well as I'd hoped this landed really well. Let's kind of adjust. And so it sounds like you both kind of use that skill as well.

Yeah, definitely. I'd say we definitely try to apply similar types of strategies. And then the other thing that we're really interested in and we try to bring about in our work is catering to different learning styles within our course content, right? Because we know not everybody learns the same. So that's some ways that we've really been able to get creative to write, like, you know, how can we make sure we're trying to hit on as many learning styles as possible with our content?

And getting that feedback directly from the providers that we work with and train is a big piece of that. So we're really open to viewing this as an ongoing journey where we are going to keep learning and modifying and changing for the better. Just hearing from the clinicians directly about what worked, what didn't work, like that's a really helpful piece for us because then we implement those changes and make things bigger and better as time goes on.

One of the things that I've seen in exploring your websites and profiles and the content you have created is that it seems like your creativity really shines through. I love the colors. I love the different graphics. Even when I saw your YouTube video, I was hooked. It was so fun. It was so genuine and so real. And I was like, yes, we need info and content like this out on the world. Specifically for OCD. Yes. And others as well, but it was just, it's really neat to see that shine through and to really get to see kind of your personalities and your creative styles and that.

Thanks.

Thank you for noticing. The colors and things like you said, those are our favorite color schemes, like we're doing everything that feels good to us, but, yeah, there's a lot of back and forth on the creativity piece in the background, which is fun.

Yes. There's a saying that I heard one time and it said, you don't have to be an expert to be a contributor, right? And so sometimes I think that when, you know, I didn't as a, as a therapist, I didn't take any business courses or marketing courses or things like this graphic design, but I love this stuff, right? But it's kind of stuff that we learn as we put it into practice. You have to kind of shift your mind in some ways.

Yes, we've had lots of conversations around that about how we're not really taught, we're not told how to market ourselves, how to make money. It's just kind of like, figure it out, good luck and learn on your own. And that can be hard. So it's nice. I think, we have the two of us to bounce ideas off of, but then also getting to network and connect with other people and see what's working, what's not working.

Absolutely. And you get to showcase your stuff, right? Just because we didn't, you know, we weren't experts in marketing or things like that. We didn't take, our degrees are not in that necessarily. Doesn't mean that we can't shine through in those colors and the graphics it's super representative of our own styles and it's really neat. We need representation, so, cool. So next question, what have been your least favorite parts about this journey into content creation and CEU providing?

I will answer hands down tech. Um, there have been so many things that I've learned that, I never thought I was going to have to learn times or like earlier today, I was editing a video and my computer just decided it was going to shut off and not save any of the edits I've made. So I think tech hands down has been the least favorite part of the journey.

Yeah. I will second that every single day of my existence, because I agree on, I got to hand it to Danielle, she is like the tech guru in this working relationship and is awesome and picks up on things that my brain just can't and doesn't. So that's where it's like the teamwork makes the dream work here as well. Also I want to say like the delays in things we have these ideas and expectations of like things are going to get done by a certain day, a certain time, different timelines. And there's always some sort of barrier, like Danielle had mentioned even this morning, that something just happens and comes up and you get kind of derailed. So being able to, learn to be adaptable and adjust has been a good lesson for us as well, but the delays, yeah, that kind of gets me a little bit on top of the tech piece for sure.

Absolutely. It's funny in, in my content creation during, I have really enjoyed the, like the graphic part of it and kind of setting up websites and things like that. And I have learned, I have ADHD and, I do extensive research on tech. And so I have to be careful not to be like, What does all the reviews say? And who says this? And that one seems like the best, but let me try all the free trials. And then it's like, I actually really like that part, but then starting it, I'm like, yeah, I haven't set up, but that's a little bit scary and intimidating to actually go do it now. So how do you keep going even when they're tech kind of challenges? What kind of keeps you both moving forward and working as a team?

Yeah, that's a great question. Because at least for me, I had very similar struggles, Natasha, in terms of like, I'm going to read every single review, cause I want to make sure I'm choosing the good one. Right. Meghin, you probably saw this. I don't know if we explicitly talked about it, but a little bit of, decision paralysis, I was like, I don't know which one to choose. And then you get overwhelmed and you kind of leave it alone for a minute. So something that I found helpful is I'm like, okay, I think I like, take a day away from it and then regroup and see how I feel and then get back into it. And then I think just the two of us being able to hold each other accountable too, because, you know, a part of me is like, if I was out on my own, it would be, a little easier for me to be like, oh, I'll just keep, pushing it down the street. But now there's somebody else where it's like, okay, we got to be accountable. We have to do this.

Yep, definitely. I think that us being in a partnership makes that a lot easier for me personally, because the accountability piece is huge. Knowing that you're not just doing this for yourself, you're doing this with and for somebody else, and vice versa, and You know, there's that inevitable like little nudge every day where you're like, you don't want to disappoint the other person either. And that helps to kind of hold yourself to a certain standard, but also being able to bounce off of each other when things get hard and there are roadblocks and the problem solving aspect of that instead of just being isolated is like a really huge part of this as well that I found very beneficial. So I think if I were doing this solo, I might've even given up at this point, which sounds kind of sad, but, we've pushed through some big barriers so far in a short period of time and it's resulted in nothing but positive things so far.

I think it's so neat to hear that. I tend to be somebody that kind of likes to work more independently. But it just reminds us that, you know, people, we, as humans, we're very social beings, right? And that accountability partner stuff, that bouncing ideas off one another, there's so much that can come from that. So much cool stuff. One of the things that really stood out to me in our initial conversation, our initial, visit, Was just how much you both connected. You seem like you have a good connection, good colleague partnership, right. And maybe even friendship. And so there's kind of that, like, you can be real.

Exactly.

Along those lines, our viewers won't know this, but we had a tech snafu prior to this, and so here we are on Zoom, but we move forward and we keep going even when there's tech stuff, right? So, and, you both were so gracious in, helping me navigate some of that today, as I learn this, as I step into this realm of video recording and things like that, that you have already embarked in. Kind of a question I didn't send you all before, but something that I noticed when I was preparing the interview questions was that you both had said, let me go back to it really quickly. So, I said, what interests you about kind of having this conversation. You both said, building connections, both of you, building connections, building connections, anything that you would like to share a little bit more about that and if not no pressure, but I thought that that was, I was like, We're in tune. You are on the same wavelength here, even in separate form submissions.

I've really enjoyed recently, getting into different spaces, getting to connect with other therapists who are doing similar things, different things, and even if it's just like, hey, let's just chat for, you know, 10, 15 minutes about what we're up to and what we want to do. I find those really important and meaningful because sometimes it can feel, especially in this world, like when you're not attached to a corporation anymore, right. It can feel a little bit like you're on an island. So I think just being connected and, you know, who knows, you, might be able to help each other because that's what it's all about, right? Being able to empower each other and really lift each other up.

Yeah, the collaboration is definitely super important because that's the only way that we can learn and continue to grow as professionals and also personally. Getting to, I mean, with, with the tech, this is a good piece of the tech connect with people that are in totally different parts of the country or even the world and people we would never even cross paths with we're able to just hop on Zoom or another platform and have these conversations and see what other people are up to and what skills they're amplifying or, in the reverse, like where other people feel stuck and burnt out and being able to even inspire in those cases. So there's a selfish element of like, Oh, I want to keep learning and I want to keep hearing what other people are doing and how can we help each other versus how can we connect with the clinicians that might be feeling super low, which we all have probably been in that position at different points in our career. Doubting ourselves and our skills and our abilities and just getting like a little bit of a light at the end of the tunnel through some conversations with people, I want to be able to supply that because I've gotten that from other providers at different points in time. And without that, like Danielle said, we feel like we're out on the island sometimes. So that collaboration and just human connection, like that's super, super vital to our functioning and then us being able to be successful business people as well.

There's so much meaning and purpose behind it. And we also know kind of, again, going into the skill set of business owner and content creator and marketer, right? Networking is one of the most beneficial kind of aspects or avenues for that. And so getting to talk with people, getting to connect, getting to kind of learn about them and not just, I think, a therapist sometimes, you know, In my humble biased opinion, what I've seen is that we're like, we're here to help. We don't want to go feel salesy. Right. And yet we gotta pay our bills. We do need money to, and we create cool stuff. Why can't we get paid for the amazing work that we do with the expertise that we bring, all the education that we have and the continued learning that we continue to put into it. Right. And so there's, there's that networking piece can be, it doesn't have to be salesy. It can very much be. with the purpose of benefiting one another and lifting each other up.

Right. Yeah. So building more like connection and authentic relationships with people as opposed to, you know, like exactly that salesy pitch.

There's something special about this field doing the business sales stuff, because at least most clinicians that I interact with and have over the years, what they're doing, they genuinely believe in and there's a purpose driving it versus past life, I've been in the sales world before and it's an icky role to me to play to have to push something because a corporation is telling you to, and you don't even have a full understanding or a belief in the product that you're putting out there. So when it comes to the mental health profession, it's like, we do what we really love and enjoy. We're serving a population of people, of clients in particular, that have a great need that are greatly stigmatized. And we want to spread that knowledge to as many providers as we can, because there will never not be enough work to go around. So I don't like the idea of this, like competitive nature. Like if we're doing similar things as other people, like we got to come out on top of the other one. No, those are the people we want to connect with. And we want to be able to build up alongside us continuing to pour into our own work as well.

That that's, really near and dear to my heart as well. And I think that was another thing that stood out to me in our initial meeting and networking kind of virtual zoom meeting. was that, you both are very genuine and there's not this sense of competition. It's this, hey, let's get to know each other so we can see how we kind of fit into each other's pictures, right? What, like you said, Meghin, there's so much work to go around, like, everybody can have clients and everybody can have other CEU providing attendees, right? It's fine. It's good. So I think it can create kind of that safety also, especially when, you know, therapists aren't necessarily always trained in this to how to market and network and things like that, and to not feel that they're in competition that feel like, hey, like, there's only good that can come out of this. Let's let's really build one another up. Something else really quick that stood out to me through this and through kind of figuring out what do we do and what do we provide and then what do other people that we're not going to work, what do they work with and what do they provide. So I really like to focus on the ERP implementation exposure work. Like figuring out how do you not just learn it, but get in and start doing it, maybe because that's where I, keep working on personally as well. Like I can set up all the tech stuff, but then you got to hit record. You all have a couple of really cool trainings that you have developed. You are currently approved through the NBCC, the National Board for Certified Counselors for live trainings. You went through the certification process that is hashtag goals for so many CEU providers. Can you tell us a little bit about that process, what that was like for you and then what you're using, the NBCC certification to provide?

Sure. Yeah. So we both decided that we wanted to be able to provide CEs and we picked NBCC because from your group was actually really helpful for this. So kind of looking around, they seemed like, the least challenging to get involved with. We took a look at the application process. We saw that we had to have a 60 day, notice period for them and that kind of fell right around Halloween. So we use that to really pick what we wanted to do our topic on. So we got our application materials together. There were a few places where the language was a little confusing or convoluted your Facebook group was incredibly helpful for that. And that's something that I hope I can give back to as well. If people have questions about that application, because there were a couple of questions I was like, what does that even mean? Who is this for?

You have been very active in the Facebook group. I've really appreciated that. And it was really neat because you were actually one of the first, NBCC providers to kind of post in there that, Hey, we got, approved. And so it was like, this is so cool. We got to see you asking about questions and then the approval process. It's doable. It is doable. There's some steps, right? There's some stuff you have to kind of go through.

Yeah, there, there are definitely steps. The rep that I worked with was really helpful in terms of, you know, like, here's what you need to fix. He gave me the examples that they give you a toolbox to look at that has all the different information materials use that because there were some things I missed the first time around. Yeah, we got approved a lot faster than we, I think we were both expecting, which was really cool. I think it was only like a few weeks when they tell you, you know, give them like 60 days. And I was like, Oh, this is awesome. So honestly it was not, as bad or as challenging as we thought it was going to be, which was a nice twist to the story. Definitely doable. If you're thinking about it. Do the single program application.

Yeah, do it. Don't don't do what I do. And like, I put that mental block up of like, not even wanting to approach it in the first place, because it does feel a little daunting, but once you get the ball rolling, it's going to work out. And honestly, that was probably one of the easier steps than other things that we have to conquer and overcome in the business portion of things. So don't hesitate to do it if it's something that you care about and something that you want to get involved with.

That encouragement is so, so important because so many of us, right? We're like, that's new and daunting and it's national and it's NBCC and like, whoa, hold on. So just like you said, kind of going into it, Danielle, you mentioned the CE provider toolbox that you can access on the NBCC website and that I've honestly, I've used that to create my learning objectives for my CEU trainings. I used it to do the, because I, I have hashtag goals of NBCC approval. And, so I created my CEU certificate based off of that. So it was really, really helpful. And it was neat to hear your, your experience going through this, that it was, it wasn't just a, yeah, I sent off my money and then they deny me. I think that can be kind of intimidating as well for providers.

Yes, definitely. That was very refreshing because we were both expecting it was going to come back with edits and then hopefully get approved. So it was very nice that it didn't turn out the other way where it was like we took your money and you're not getting it. And good luck.

So we have several members of our community that are feeling burnt out and want to cut down on clinical work and, or add an additional income stream for financial stability. For someone just starting out on their CEU provider journey, what would you say are like one to three most important steps to take to begin the process?

I think first there's a little bit of a mental barrier or hurdle sometimes that we need to work through as therapists because there's a lot of, I think, "should" expectations about, you know, we "should" be doing clinical work. We "should" be taking clients at a very low fee, right? There's all these "shoulds" about what need to happen in our profession. So I think kind of getting over some of those and recognizing that it's okay to try to branch out and do other things. It's okay to step back or step down from clinical work if it's something that isn't serving you to the degree that you're doing it. So I think mental barrier, we need to work through first. And then after that, find out what you could talk about for an hour. Find out what you're passionate about, what's something that's in your niche or your wheelhouse, and maybe think about starting there. So don't do a CE on something you're totally unfamiliar with, right? Like, stick in your wheelhouse, make it easier for yourself for the first go around, and then do your research in terms of where you want to be in terms of APA, NBCC, you know, state CEs, right? Research and figure out what would be the best starting point, what makes sense for your audience.

And I think starting with one, you know, instead of jumping into I have to do all of this at once, find the one specialty topic, find the one application that you want to pursue and start building those blocks from there and it'll continue to morph into its own thing over time, but as long as you're doing something that you genuinely enjoy, there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing other things in this field. You start to second guess yourself and like, why did I sign up to be a therapist if I'm feeling burnt out if I'm at a certain number in my caseload or whatever the case may be, but everybody has a different threshold. We also have other skills. We're not just clinicians. We're whatever we want to be. And if there's other things that we learn that we enjoy when we're developing within the profession, then we should be watering that and seeing where it grows to instead of ignoring it and trying to fit a mold of something that might not feel like a long term item in our list of tasks that we have to do as professionals. So I think I started gaining some flexibility around what my career would look like once I had the opportunity to start nourishing some other skills that I knew that I enjoyed. And then it took my own advocacy to say like, no, I, I need to do this for myself, even if there's risk or it feels scary because I need to see what it can turn into before just ignoring it. And, putting my head down and continuing to do the same thing over and over again.

Absolutely. I think it's so important for us to kind of, again, going back to that, that conversation and topic of, you know, therapists are, we're kind of technicians, right? We're doers. And so, but what happens when we can't have "butt in seat" hours, and that's how our income is generated. So sometimes providing CEUs, even through recorded trainings or live events can be an additional way you can record it repurpose the content, and then you have money while you sleep money, right? Where it's like you wake up and you have a registration, you're like, wow, I didn't even have to sit somewhere for that money to come my way. And that can be so refreshing and so beneficial because it fuels our continued work. It fuels, like you said, we therapists are in this field a lot of times, because we care, right? Because we want to make an impact because we want to do good things. And when we have financial resource, it allows us to continue to do that. And we know that when people struggle with financial resources, it changes our brains, right? It decreases our creative abilities. And so being able to support that and kind of becoming a patron of our own art to fund it, and then allowing that to grow, it can be really, really important. So next question here, you have an upcoming live CEU training. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Yes. So our CE event is taking place on November the 1st. And so right around Halloween, which is you know, we're trying, we have been thinking about kind of theming our CEs around different holidays and times of the year. So, our first CE is going to focus on Harm OCD and we're going to talk about how to treat it. With ERP, we're going to equip therapists with the foundational knowledge in terms of, you know, recognizing, diagnosing, how to treat it, and then incorporating values into ERP work, which is something that Meghin and I are really passionate about, and I know you are as well.

My heart!

So we're going to have, you know, traditional kind of like lecture didactic style and then we're also going to incorporate some experiential exercises into our CE as well.

Yep, and I'll toss in there that it is from 3 to 4:30 Eastern on the 1st.

It sounds like it is an event that no one should miss. This is a, there's some interesting aspects within harm OCD, right? And if we don't know how to identify it, we could be completely treating it incorrectly and ineffectively and unethically and like, Hmm. None of us are here to do that. We worked our butts off for our education and for our license. You all can help them kind of prevent some liability challenges. They can learn some fun stuff and it's an hour and a half.

It is. Yes. So 1. 5 NBCC credits.

Okay, so with regards to this upcoming live CEU training we're talking about harm ocd. How did you come up with the topic?

I'll let you take that one, Meghin.

Yeah, so like we were talking about earlier, we were looking at the time of year that we were targeting and we both were like, oh, that's gonna be right around Halloween time. It would be kind of cool to theme the subtype of OCD that we want to present about and get into some detail on as we may or may not know. For anybody listening, there are Endless subtypes or themes of OCD. So it's not like it just presents as contamination or it just presents as organization. There's a whole, one various world of OCD symptoms that most average people probably don't even have awareness of. So harm OCD is one of those subtypes and we felt it matched pretty well with the time of year. We were like, let's do some deep dive into harm OCD and like Danielle had mentioned to assessment and diagnosis of and then diving into the treatment of and it'll be a good time of year to kind of talk about that theme a little bit in the way that it presents and then bringing again, the values into that treatment, which is one of the most important pieces as well. So we're excited to introduce that for the Halloween theme time of year, and we'll try to be consistent and doing some fun things like that and bringing, I guess, a little bit of a lightness to something that is very dark and challenging for people to experience firsthand. And hopefully we'll shed some more awareness on it as well.

I think it's really neat because you're using environmental cues. You're using other kinds of primers to get people ready for the topic and the content and things like that. So neat. So last couple questions before we get ready to wrap up. Can you tell us where to find you? What is your website? And, are you on social media?

Our website is https://thrivehubfortraining.com. We are on LinkedIn and we are on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. So you can kind of find us all over the place.

And you all have an email list as well that we can join and that, is on your website.

It is, yeah. It's on a few of the pages. Probably the easiest place is on the homepage. Just scroll to the bottom and you can join into our THRIVE. Community.

Wonderful. So, again, it has just been such an honor, a privilege and a pleasure to have you both here today. I so appreciate your time, your willingness to help me learn some tech stuff as well, to come in and have this conversation about CEU content creation, that provider journey. Is there anything else that would be helpful that you would want to share with other providers that are interested in this journey that maybe we haven't talked about yet?

Yeah, I would just say speaking to the event we want to encourage any clinicians who are interested in learning more about OCD to join. You don't have to be an expert in OCD to attend this CE event you also don't have to be an expert in any of the specific subtypes you're going to take something away from it and it'll shed a lot of light on the disorder in general so we hope that anybody feels comfortable any pre-licensed and licensed clinicians can join.

And it's a very reasonable price for the content and the training that you all are providing, plus the NBCC CEUs. I think that it's very, very reasonable and again, you are both OCD specialists. You've been doing this for a long time. You have experience training others. You were saying, Danielle, one thing that's really important to both of you is to incorporate other learning styles. And so, it just really sounds like it could be a really beneficial event. I hope you have so much success with it. We will be linking the CEU website and, all of their social media pages below. And so please feel free to follow them, interact with them, and definitely consider attending this training. It's going to be on a really important topic. A lot of clinicians I think can be, challenged by the theme and the subtype of Harm OCD if you don't know what you're looking for, it can feel like what am I doing and who just walked into my office. And it doesn't have to be scary. It's really cool that you are both putting out this kind of content and we need more info out there about OCD, in general, and so it's just really neat. Thank you again, both of you, so much for your time, for being willing to be our first, spotlighted members. I look forward to our continued collaboration and work together. Please feel free to everyone follow Danielle and Meghin, go check out THRIVE. Training Hub. It is a really incredible resource and there's so much time and work that's put into it and it is so quality. You won't walk away disappointed. Thank you so much.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks, Natasha!