1 00:00:02,490 --> 00:00:10,310 Melinda Lee: Welcome, listeners, to the Speak and Flow podcast, the Legacy Growth Series. In our last episode, we talked all about presence. 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:15,370 Melinda Lee: And today, we are going to actually dive into what 3 00:00:15,510 --> 00:00:26,420 Melinda Lee: test presence. It's those high-stakes moments when conversations are getting heated. Those are the moments that either erode trust or break trust. 4 00:00:26,510 --> 00:00:38,279 Melinda Lee: So joining me today, she's an amazing entrepreneur, advisor, C-suite executive with over 25 years of experience helping companies, healthcare industry. 5 00:00:38,420 --> 00:00:54,770 Melinda Lee: early startups and also, large healthcare industry companies through, strategic messaging, partnerships, and go-to-market strategies. She has founded 2Doulas Birth, and also got acquired in 2017. 6 00:00:54,770 --> 00:01:03,709 Melinda Lee: She is a consultant and an advisor to healthcare companies, founder of Becca Gordon Consulting. Welcome, Becca. 7 00:01:03,930 --> 00:01:07,049 Becca Gordon: Thank you so much for having me, Melinda. So fun to be back. 8 00:01:07,050 --> 00:01:31,210 Melinda Lee: I know, this is the second time you're… I just really admire what you do and all your strategies, and so I'm so excited to dive in today to really break down what are the things that erode or build trust in these high-stakes moments. And so, there's… I will start off with this first question. There's a busy entrepreneur, CEO, or executive that has stopped to listen to this episode. 9 00:01:31,210 --> 00:01:39,489 Melinda Lee: And so, what would you hope would change in their life, when they actually take to heart everything you're about to teach them and talk about today? 10 00:01:40,230 --> 00:02:00,139 Becca Gordon: I hope that their confidence in their own abilities will grow, because I think that the big overarching message that I plan to share today is about authenticity, and sometimes that's the scariest thing to do as a leader, is to be vulnerable in a way where you're truly being authentic with the people who work with you, work for you. 11 00:02:00,140 --> 00:02:19,130 Becca Gordon: your clients, your board, etc. But I think when you strip everything else away, and you really go for it, and you speak from a place of truth and authenticity, it makes everything much easier. And you have to think less strategically. You can just be really truthful. Obviously, in… 12 00:02:19,370 --> 00:02:28,939 Becca Gordon: sometimes crafted ways, you know, and so my hope is that if there's a busy entrepreneur joining us, a busy CEO joining us today, that, you know, they get that… 13 00:02:29,090 --> 00:02:40,580 Becca Gordon: that permission to speak authentically from their own experience, and… and then listen, right? Because it's a two-way conversation when those high-stake moments happen. It doesn't… it isn't just about speaking, it's about listening. 14 00:02:40,580 --> 00:02:51,090 Melinda Lee: Yes, yes, yes, yes, and the connection. I love that. Thank you so much for bringing that to light. It's the permission to be authentic, and that is easier said than done. 15 00:02:51,410 --> 00:02:52,340 Melinda Lee: So let's dive in. 16 00:02:52,340 --> 00:02:53,050 Becca Gordon: It's scary. 17 00:02:53,050 --> 00:02:55,379 Melinda Lee: It is really scary, especially for leaders… 18 00:02:56,260 --> 00:03:17,070 Melinda Lee: Yep, especially for leaders who know, you know, they've had so much experience, and they've come from all the knowledge, and it's like, really? Can I show that I don't have it all together? And so, let's dive into that. And before we get into that, can you share with the audience, what you do, and what is exciting you, today about what you do? 19 00:03:17,270 --> 00:03:30,810 Becca Gordon: Yeah, so I primarily work with early-stage, seed, Series A, Series B, healthcare companies, mostly in digital health and, and med device, but a little bit across the map, and… 20 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:37,999 Becca Gordon: I've been just really excited to work on some of these kind of EQ soft skills things. 21 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:38,679 Melinda Lee: with the CEO. 22 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,499 Becca Gordon: that I work with, and present them in a way that 23 00:03:42,600 --> 00:04:01,110 Becca Gordon: is authentic to me, which is that these soft skills actually are sort of the core strategic skills that you need to be successful, because markets are going to change, the people that you're interacting with are going to change, the landscape and environment is changing so rapidly with AI coming into healthcare and everybody trying to figure out 24 00:04:01,110 --> 00:04:10,930 Becca Gordon: how to work with that, and legislative changes, certainly, in this industry are really significant. You know, a new administration comes in, these things change, and it changes again, and 25 00:04:10,930 --> 00:04:11,840 Becca Gordon: So… 26 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:26,680 Becca Gordon: I think the core that makes a company successful, makes a leader successful, is the ability to really understand, like, what it is they're doing, why they're doing it, and then how to communicate that to others. 27 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:27,180 Melinda Lee: I think that's… 28 00:04:27,180 --> 00:04:29,669 Becca Gordon: really the kind of the core of the work that I'm doing right now. 29 00:04:29,670 --> 00:04:30,270 Melinda Lee: It feels really. 30 00:04:30,270 --> 00:04:32,449 Becca Gordon: It's authentic to me, so it's really pleasing. 31 00:04:32,450 --> 00:04:35,700 Melinda Lee: Oh my gosh, and that's why you're here in this conversation. 32 00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:36,060 Becca Gordon: Yeah. 33 00:04:36,060 --> 00:04:41,619 Melinda Lee: Yes, I agree with you, because a lot of what traditionally has been thought of as a soft skill. 34 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:53,790 Melinda Lee: it's soft because it may be not measurable. It can be actually measured. It's actually more of a… something that can translate to growth and actual metrics for the company. 35 00:04:53,790 --> 00:05:05,590 Melinda Lee: And so let's start off with talking about these high-stakes moments, when it's so critical, the lot's on the line, what are… as a leadership team. 36 00:05:06,230 --> 00:05:12,590 Melinda Lee: What are the things that, you see that people or leaders are doing that would erode trust? 37 00:05:12,740 --> 00:05:14,840 Melinda Lee: In this type of conversation. 38 00:05:15,230 --> 00:05:31,360 Becca Gordon: I think there's a few. I think one is not having the right people in the room, so I think it's really critical as a leader to understand which members of your leadership team, maybe you're lucky and it's all of them, but which members of your leadership team are right for which types of conversations, because. 39 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,799 Becca Gordon: We're very talented leaders in certain… 40 00:05:35,820 --> 00:05:52,590 Becca Gordon: organizations that I've worked with that are wonderful at what they do, manage their team successfully, all the metrics, analytics, deliverable, everything is excellent, but when it comes to their communication skills or ability to be in those high-stakes situations and conversations, maybe that's not their strong suit. 41 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,949 Becca Gordon: Eventually, that's probably a ceiling for them, right? Or something they're gonna have to grow in if they're gonna. 42 00:05:57,310 --> 00:05:58,909 Becca Gordon: in their career, but I think as the. 43 00:05:58,910 --> 00:05:59,330 Melinda Lee: CEO. 44 00:05:59,330 --> 00:06:04,760 Becca Gordon: As the leader of a team, it's really important to have the right people in the room and understand the temperament. 45 00:06:04,870 --> 00:06:05,679 Becca Gordon: Of your. 46 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:06,100 Melinda Lee: partnership. 47 00:06:06,100 --> 00:06:13,219 Becca Gordon: team, understand who you have available to you. Part of being a leader is selecting, kind of, who's in the conversation, where and when you can, right? 48 00:06:13,630 --> 00:06:24,429 Becca Gordon: member is going to ask to speak to everybody, or sometimes you have a customer service issue that has to go to a customer service leader, or what have you, but I think where you can, kind of cultivating who's in the room is really important. 49 00:06:24,430 --> 00:06:38,309 Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah, having that forethought and the planning to do that. And so even when you have these leaders that are in there, and I think that when we are thinking about the leadership team and those that are eroding trust, they might be 50 00:06:38,750 --> 00:06:55,739 Melinda Lee: not communicating well, or they might be fumbling on their words, or… or closed off. Like, I also think about, on the opposite side, some of these leaders that are so smart, because a lot of them are in there for a reason, there's a gamut. They can also be 51 00:06:55,890 --> 00:06:57,470 Melinda Lee: Talking too much. 52 00:06:57,940 --> 00:06:58,670 Becca Gordon: Totally. 53 00:06:58,670 --> 00:06:59,930 Melinda Lee: Have you found that? 54 00:06:59,930 --> 00:07:01,309 Becca Gordon: Absolutely. I think 55 00:07:01,790 --> 00:07:09,259 Becca Gordon: It's a balance, right, where it's really important if you are having multiple individuals from your team in a conversation. 56 00:07:09,260 --> 00:07:09,790 Melinda Lee: station. 57 00:07:09,790 --> 00:07:13,210 Becca Gordon: That you're demonstrating respect among your team, right? 58 00:07:13,650 --> 00:07:18,090 Becca Gordon: And what that requires is a pretty high level of emotional intelligence for those. 59 00:07:18,090 --> 00:07:18,530 Melinda Lee: as leaders. 60 00:07:18,530 --> 00:07:20,200 Becca Gordon: They're in that conversation, because. 61 00:07:20,690 --> 00:07:30,240 Becca Gordon: It's knowing when to speak about their area of expertise, but it's also knowing when to show, respect to their teammates. 62 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:30,670 Melinda Lee: and dear. 63 00:07:30,670 --> 00:07:43,360 Becca Gordon: you know, maybe turn the floor over to somebody else and say, I appreciate you asking me that question. It's really not my area of expertise within this organization. That set of topics is handled by this person. You know, they could. 64 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:43,690 Melinda Lee: Right. 65 00:07:43,690 --> 00:07:51,049 Becca Gordon: to that than I can, right? And so the way that the leadership team speaks about one another and speaks to one another 66 00:07:51,410 --> 00:07:53,500 Becca Gordon: It becomes really visible to the. 67 00:07:53,900 --> 00:07:56,519 Becca Gordon: board member, this outside person that's coming in, right? 68 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:57,130 Melinda Lee: Thank you. 69 00:07:57,130 --> 00:08:00,600 Becca Gordon: that respect, even if you don't always agree, you don't have to. 70 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:01,000 Melinda Lee: Agree. 71 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:09,610 Becca Gordon: on the strategy that someone is bringing up, but you do have to show them a level of real tremendous respect. 72 00:08:09,610 --> 00:08:10,030 Melinda Lee: Right. 73 00:08:10,030 --> 00:08:11,199 Becca Gordon: That's really important. 74 00:08:11,570 --> 00:08:20,170 Melinda Lee: Right, because a lot of times we're in the room, and it's, an important conversation, and then we want to be right, and… 75 00:08:20,170 --> 00:08:21,510 Becca Gordon: And we want to be heard. 76 00:08:21,510 --> 00:08:23,400 Melinda Lee: And we want to be heard! 77 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:23,860 Becca Gordon: Yes. 78 00:08:23,860 --> 00:08:43,520 Melinda Lee: Yes, and so that could come at the cost of maybe even disagreeing with your partner or your teammate in front of a client, because you want to be heard. But then, as you're saying, from the client's perspective or from the audience perspective, it really doesn't look good. It doesn't build a good, solid reputation of. 79 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:48,209 Becca Gordon: Yeah, I'm a really strong believer in, like, the person who's the closest with that client is the person. 80 00:08:48,210 --> 00:08:48,729 Melinda Lee: Yeah, that should… 81 00:08:48,730 --> 00:09:06,849 Becca Gordon: be leading the conversation. If it's a board member, the person who's the closest with that board member should be the person who's introing the conversation, and they're pulling in their teammates and bringing them in on their areas of expertise and to add color, but to have kind of one person in that team designated to sort of be the narrator and be the person who is 82 00:09:06,850 --> 00:09:10,960 Becca Gordon: Is the fulcrum for your team, and having that person be the one who has 83 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:12,839 Becca Gordon: The closest relationship to that. 84 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:13,320 Melinda Lee: outside. 85 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:14,550 Becca Gordon: individual, I think, is. 86 00:09:14,550 --> 00:09:14,979 Melinda Lee: Oh my god. 87 00:09:14,980 --> 00:09:18,649 Becca Gordon: And then the other piece is listening, right? Because every. 88 00:09:18,650 --> 00:09:19,040 Melinda Lee: conversation. 89 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:20,799 Becca Gordon: It has two sides, and… 90 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:21,150 Melinda Lee: Jesus. 91 00:09:21,150 --> 00:09:39,869 Becca Gordon: I think when we're in high-stakes situations, we want to be right, and we want to be heard, and sometimes we forget that 90% of what is really needed in those higher-stakes situations is to hear what the other person is saying. And so a lot of times, if there's something going awry, and that's why there's a high-stakes conversation happening, right? 92 00:09:40,450 --> 00:09:43,120 Becca Gordon: That other person wants to be heard, and they don't… 93 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:43,589 Melinda Lee: I just wanted. 94 00:09:43,590 --> 00:09:57,100 Becca Gordon: heard, and they want to be validated, and it doesn't really have a lot to do with the content of what you would say in response. It's more the feeling that you're giving that client who's upset, or that board member who needs more color, or, you know, whatever else is going on. 95 00:09:58,170 --> 00:10:00,090 Becca Gordon: You know, what they really want is… 96 00:10:00,220 --> 00:10:20,060 Becca Gordon: the board member wants to feel heard with their ideas, the client wants to feel heard with their complaint, right? And so, obviously, your response to that is important, but it's really secondary to the first part, which is making sure that person feels heard. And it's hard sometimes, because you could be in a room with maybe one or two representatives from the client, one board member, and, like, four team members or more, right? 97 00:10:20,490 --> 00:10:29,729 Becca Gordon: And so, to get everybody on the same page, to be like, okay, we really need to listen and ask questions of this person that we're meeting with before we dive into our solution building, I think is really. 98 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:39,779 Melinda Lee: Yeah, what would you say to someone that traditionally likes to speak and puts in their opinion? How would I know if I am talking too much? 99 00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:45,940 Becca Gordon: So, I have 3 strategies. I am that person. I really am a super Type A, like, Virgo person. 100 00:10:45,940 --> 00:10:46,349 Melinda Lee: and I. 101 00:10:46,350 --> 00:10:49,930 Becca Gordon: I love to be right, and I love to have information to share, and it absolutely. 102 00:10:49,930 --> 00:10:50,390 Melinda Lee: Yes! 103 00:10:50,390 --> 00:10:55,519 Becca Gordon: in a meeting where I don't get to speak, right? So I have a couple tactics that work really well for me. 104 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:56,230 Melinda Lee: That is cool. 105 00:10:56,230 --> 00:10:58,189 Becca Gordon: myself on mute, so I actually have. 106 00:10:58,190 --> 00:10:58,769 Melinda Lee: and do something. 107 00:10:58,770 --> 00:11:02,300 Becca Gordon: Right, if it' virtual meeting, I'll keep myself on mute, because. 108 00:11:02,300 --> 00:11:02,680 Melinda Lee: then… 109 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:05,349 Becca Gordon: I actually have to do something to participate, right? 110 00:11:05,940 --> 00:11:24,510 Becca Gordon: And then other ways, like, tangible ways that I help myself pause, and I've seen work for my clients, is, like, to have a drink. So, like, right now, I have my water, I could have a coffee, and so someone says something, and before I'm allowed to respond to it, I have to, like, take a sip of my water, take a sip of my coffee. It's like that moment of pause. 111 00:11:24,510 --> 00:11:24,880 Melinda Lee: before. 112 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:42,490 Becca Gordon: speaking. And then the other thing that works great for me, and I do in almost every meeting, is I actually take physical notes. And so, I have to be listening to the other people in the conversation, and not just kind of thinking of what I'm going to be saying next. And I'll take notes on everything that the other person is saying. 113 00:11:42,490 --> 00:11:43,149 Melinda Lee: Like, really… 114 00:11:43,150 --> 00:11:51,669 Becca Gordon: Pay attention to what they're doing, and that gives me something to do with my hands, my brain, my heart, while they're speaking, and not just jump in with… 115 00:11:52,130 --> 00:11:56,920 Melinda Lee: I love that. I love that you're using your hands, your eyes, your heart, you're using. 116 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:58,919 Becca Gordon: Yeah, it has to be, like, really somatic, right? 117 00:11:58,920 --> 00:11:59,610 Melinda Lee: And so maybe it'. 118 00:11:59,610 --> 00:12:06,580 Becca Gordon: maybe note-taking isn't the only thing that works, but that really, really works for me. And then it also is helpful because then I can refer back to those notes and be like. 119 00:12:06,580 --> 00:12:07,360 Melinda Lee: Right. 120 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:24,660 Becca Gordon: you know, I was thinking about the part where you were sharing, you know, about how we let you down in this particular area, you know, of service, and, you know, these are some ideas I have about ways that we can rectify that moving forward, right? So it also demonstrates listening, where you're like, actually, I heard what you said. 121 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:44,390 Melinda Lee: Yeah, I love that. I love that. So using more parts of us, and… and so these are high-stakes conversations, and you're saying that the most important thing is listening and, giving other people a chance to feel heard. And so what would happen… what do you suggest someone should do if 122 00:12:44,550 --> 00:12:54,409 Melinda Lee: someone asked me a question, and I don't know how to answer the question. Earlier, you mentioned just to be authentic, like, tell me more about 123 00:12:54,590 --> 00:13:01,770 Melinda Lee: what I can do, especially if this is an important conversation, and I want to be… I want to do well. Yeah. 124 00:13:01,770 --> 00:13:10,159 Becca Gordon: I think there's a couple pieces, right? So, it depends a little bit on what's being asked of you, right? And if you don't know the answer. 125 00:13:10,900 --> 00:13:15,159 Becca Gordon: know the answer, don't have a clue, and somebody else on your team might. 126 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:15,740 Melinda Lee: I think it's… 127 00:13:15,740 --> 00:13:20,069 Becca Gordon: completely appropriate to, like, turn the floor over to that person. Thank you so. 128 00:13:20,070 --> 00:13:20,419 Melinda Lee: Thanks so much for your. 129 00:13:20,420 --> 00:13:28,040 Becca Gordon: answering that question. The person on our team with the most expertise on that matter is X, so I'm going to hand it over to Melinda to… 130 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:28,460 Melinda Lee: Answer your. 131 00:13:28,460 --> 00:13:33,279 Becca Gordon: question, right? And that just, again, demonstrates respect, it demonstrates humbleness, like, so many. 132 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:33,880 Melinda Lee: be good quality. 133 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:34,900 Becca Gordon: qualities without you. 134 00:13:34,900 --> 00:13:35,660 Melinda Lee: Like, teamwork. 135 00:13:35,660 --> 00:13:36,280 Becca Gordon: answer. 136 00:13:36,430 --> 00:13:38,649 Melinda Lee: Right, and teamwork, yep, yep. 137 00:13:38,650 --> 00:13:43,409 Becca Gordon: One, sometimes we think we don't know the answer, but we actually do know the answer. 138 00:13:43,410 --> 00:13:43,960 Melinda Lee: Yeah, I'm reaching. 139 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:53,189 Becca Gordon: just aren't confident enough to say it. So I think those are kind of different situations, right? And if we don't feel empowered by our CEO to say it, or we're worried 140 00:13:53,550 --> 00:13:55,199 Becca Gordon: What our board member is going to say. 141 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:55,609 Melinda Lee: They hear. 142 00:13:55,610 --> 00:14:02,940 Becca Gordon: or our investor is going to say if they hear what we said, but we do know the answer to a question. That's a little more dicey to me, right? And I think. 143 00:14:02,940 --> 00:14:03,360 Melinda Lee: kidnapped. 144 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,049 Becca Gordon: The best thing to do is that pause. 145 00:14:06,510 --> 00:14:10,570 Becca Gordon: When you… they ask you a question, you feel like you have to really respond right away. 146 00:14:10,570 --> 00:14:11,330 Melinda Lee: I think it's perfect. 147 00:14:11,330 --> 00:14:13,640 Becca Gordon: It's perfectly reasonable to say something like. 148 00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:19,620 Becca Gordon: Thank you so much for answering, you know, asking me that question. I'm actually thinking of the answer as we sit here. 149 00:14:19,620 --> 00:14:20,069 Melinda Lee: And these are… 150 00:14:20,070 --> 00:14:22,119 Becca Gordon: Awesome things that are coming to mind. 151 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:22,610 Melinda Lee: Awesome. 152 00:14:22,610 --> 00:14:26,180 Becca Gordon: So, I'd really love to formulate my thoughts a little bit further. 153 00:14:26,180 --> 00:14:26,750 Melinda Lee: I don't feel like. 154 00:14:26,750 --> 00:14:33,559 Becca Gordon: I can come up with the best possible answer for you in this setting, would it be okay if I got back with you within the next week or two? 155 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:34,219 Melinda Lee: And I can pull… 156 00:14:34,220 --> 00:14:39,830 Becca Gordon: some analytics and look into that particular thing further, right? So, I think there's a way to say. 157 00:14:40,010 --> 00:14:41,760 Becca Gordon: These are some thoughts I'm having, this is where. 158 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,680 Melinda Lee: Marina's going… 159 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:49,489 Becca Gordon: not clueless on this topic, but also, like, I want to make sure to give you the best possible answer that I. 160 00:14:49,490 --> 00:14:50,710 Melinda Lee: again, and I can't do that. 161 00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:52,660 Becca Gordon: that in 20 seconds, okay? 162 00:14:52,660 --> 00:15:03,920 Melinda Lee: I love it. I mean, and I think that that, for me as a listener, I admire that. I respect that. I, you know, I'd prefer that you wait and pause and… and… 163 00:15:04,020 --> 00:15:15,529 Melinda Lee: take the time to think about your answer, and then share what you honestly are thinking about what's coming up, and then also, if you have more, you know, opportunity to go get data, more accurate data, I would like that. 164 00:15:15,530 --> 00:15:17,709 Becca Gordon: And talk to more people, right? Like, let me talk to more people. 165 00:15:17,710 --> 00:15:18,099 Melinda Lee: That's all about it. 166 00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:21,159 Becca Gordon: And find out what they think, and, you know, consolidate any. 167 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:21,590 Melinda Lee: Yeah, sure. 168 00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:22,430 Becca Gordon: I'm. 169 00:15:22,430 --> 00:15:22,820 Melinda Lee: Yeah, awesome! 170 00:15:22,820 --> 00:15:34,689 Becca Gordon: I've been known to be the person in these conversations that I'll say one thing as a potential solution, we'll be going down this pathway, and then I'll realize, you know, something… I'll come up with a different answer, right? 171 00:15:34,690 --> 00:15:35,090 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 172 00:15:35,090 --> 00:15:37,610 Becca Gordon: It's totally reasonable to say. 173 00:15:37,610 --> 00:15:37,970 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 174 00:15:37,970 --> 00:15:38,430 Becca Gordon: In the moment. 175 00:15:38,430 --> 00:15:39,510 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 176 00:15:39,510 --> 00:15:43,290 Becca Gordon: sitting here talking, I'm actually wondering, and phrasing it as a question is a great tip. 177 00:15:43,290 --> 00:15:44,869 Melinda Lee: Right, right, right. I'm actually wondering… 178 00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:48,829 Becca Gordon: if it would make more sense, or it would make sense to also explore. 179 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:49,390 Melinda Lee: Right. 180 00:15:49,390 --> 00:15:50,489 Becca Gordon: Y or Z, right? 181 00:15:50,490 --> 00:15:51,440 Melinda Lee: Right, right. 182 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:56,500 Becca Gordon: When you phrase something as a question, if someone asks you a question, you can direct a question back to them, you know? 183 00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:56,829 Melinda Lee: I'd love. 184 00:15:56,830 --> 00:16:06,619 Becca Gordon: to give you more information about that. Could you clarify for me what exactly it is that you're wanting, A, B, or C, right? And then that gives you more color, it also gives you more time to kind of. 185 00:16:06,620 --> 00:16:07,190 Melinda Lee: think about. 186 00:16:07,190 --> 00:16:08,849 Becca Gordon: How it is that you want to respond. 187 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:25,190 Melinda Lee: I love it, yeah, and I think that it's also important to bring people into the conversation, too, when you can. Then… then you become, like, a joint collaboration, brainstorming, and so that's a good strategy, too. 188 00:16:25,190 --> 00:16:25,900 Becca Gordon: Yeah, four breaks. 189 00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:26,420 Melinda Lee: do that. 190 00:16:26,420 --> 00:16:27,629 Becca Gordon: better than one, and you. 191 00:16:27,630 --> 00:16:28,200 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 192 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,259 Becca Gordon: You have people on your team that can… 193 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,179 Becca Gordon: You know, that have good ideas to share. 194 00:16:33,180 --> 00:16:44,730 Melinda Lee: Yeah, because the alternative is, like, making up something, and then they find out that it's not correct. That wouldn't be terrible. That will break your trust… break trust so quickly. 195 00:16:44,730 --> 00:16:47,160 Becca Gordon: I think that when someone asks a pointed question, they necessarily. 196 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:47,660 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 197 00:16:47,660 --> 00:16:50,069 Becca Gordon: want an immediate answer. 198 00:16:50,070 --> 00:16:50,619 Melinda Lee: Yes, they do. 199 00:16:50,620 --> 00:16:51,110 Becca Gordon: I've definitely. 200 00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:51,760 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 201 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,519 Becca Gordon: board members, I've known invest… I've known people who. 202 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:54,880 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 203 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,490 Becca Gordon: I really want that answer right now. 204 00:16:56,490 --> 00:16:57,010 Melinda Lee: Right. 205 00:16:57,010 --> 00:17:01,160 Becca Gordon: Maybe you're picking up on that energy of, like, they want you to know the answer, right? 206 00:17:01,780 --> 00:17:07,580 Becca Gordon: Even in that situation, I think it's better if you're not clear about how you want to respond to take that 207 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,500 Becca Gordon: than it is to. 208 00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:10,300 Melinda Lee: Mmm. 209 00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:13,319 Becca Gordon: Respond because you're feeling that pressure from the other person. 210 00:17:13,329 --> 00:17:13,779 Melinda Lee: Right. 211 00:17:13,780 --> 00:17:14,450 Becca Gordon: month. 212 00:17:14,450 --> 00:17:32,230 Melinda Lee: Yeah, and then also, we also want to go into it prepared, trying to think of all the questions as much as possible, and answers to those questions, but then once you get in there, and they ask you a question that you hadn't even thought about, then at that point, yeah, just be authentic. 213 00:17:32,420 --> 00:17:34,869 Melinda Lee: It's not like you didn't go into it prepared. 214 00:17:34,980 --> 00:17:36,170 Melinda Lee: It's not here. 215 00:17:36,170 --> 00:17:37,690 Becca Gordon: I've been prepared for one meal 216 00:17:38,060 --> 00:17:40,299 Becca Gordon: And the meeting is something completely different. 217 00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:47,649 Melinda Lee: Something different. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so sometimes it is, like, when they're… you're in this… 218 00:17:47,830 --> 00:18:05,670 Melinda Lee: high-pressure situation, our minds are racing, and, you know, like you said, we may not know the answer, or maybe we forget that we are confident enough to answer those questions. Like, it's just more of a confident mindset thing. Like, what advice would you give someone 219 00:18:05,730 --> 00:18:08,710 Melinda Lee: Just to help them feel more grounded and confident. 220 00:18:09,850 --> 00:18:10,990 Becca Gordon: Slow down. 221 00:18:11,740 --> 00:18:21,610 Becca Gordon: So again, all these techniques, whether it's note-taking or water sipping or something else, a grounding technique that I really like is just a quick, my feet are on the floor, and just. 222 00:18:21,610 --> 00:18:24,589 Melinda Lee: Like, the bottom of the feet on the floor, right? Yeah. 223 00:18:24,590 --> 00:18:25,620 Becca Gordon: in-person meeting. 224 00:18:25,620 --> 00:18:26,320 Melinda Lee: and I can. 225 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,049 Becca Gordon: you know, do all of my muting myself tricks that I would do if I were 226 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,219 Becca Gordon: You know, just please. 227 00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:32,760 Melinda Lee: Seeing my feet. 228 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:38,209 Becca Gordon: on the floor, and hey, the soles of my feet are on the floor, right? And even just having that moment of grounding. 229 00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:45,409 Becca Gordon: No matter how you respond after that, it's going to give the cadence of what you say, the tone of what you say. 230 00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:48,039 Becca Gordon: A different vibration, right? 231 00:18:48,110 --> 00:18:48,860 Melinda Lee: Yay. 232 00:18:48,990 --> 00:19:02,040 Melinda Lee: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And sometimes I even advise my clients to wiggle their toes, to… to feel that, so that they have more… I'm here. I'm here, I feel supported by the ground. 233 00:19:02,340 --> 00:19:06,359 Melinda Lee: It is so important, because it's a different energy, because then you're not… 234 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:17,520 Melinda Lee: somewhere else, like your thoughts… because what happens is when people are, not confident, their thoughts are all over the place, like, oh my gosh, am I saying the right thing? Oh my gosh, what are they thinking? 235 00:19:18,190 --> 00:19:24,999 Becca Gordon: I think another thing I've noticed with leadership teams is that there's a lot of preparation that goes in for each individual person in the group. 236 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:25,460 Melinda Lee: with the. 237 00:19:25,460 --> 00:19:28,300 Becca Gordon: best leadership teams prepare as a group. And so… 238 00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:28,760 Melinda Lee: they're. 239 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:43,949 Becca Gordon: be some sort of pre-meeting that involves almost a practice run, right? Of, like, hey, the person that's closest to the problem or the closest to the situation will brief everybody and will come up… we'll paint the picture of, this is what I think the meeting is. Obviously. 240 00:19:43,950 --> 00:19:44,729 Melinda Lee: May or may not use. 241 00:19:44,730 --> 00:19:53,069 Becca Gordon: exactly that. And then there will be a conversation of, okay, this is the person who's going to lead the meeting. When it comes to this topic, I'm going to hand it over to that person. 242 00:19:53,810 --> 00:19:59,250 Becca Gordon: And obviously, things may go a little differently than that in the meeting if the client or the board member or whoever it is that you're. 243 00:19:59,250 --> 00:19:59,780 Melinda Lee: meeting. 244 00:19:59,780 --> 00:20:05,909 Becca Gordon: if takes it in a different direction, but I think having that group preparation is really important, and I've. 245 00:20:05,910 --> 00:20:06,700 Melinda Lee: seen sometimes. 246 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:18,779 Becca Gordon: in busy organizations, the time is spent, you know, bringing in charts and data and, you know, things from each department, rather than coming together as a group and being like, this is the main purpose of this meeting, this is. 247 00:20:18,780 --> 00:20:19,380 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 248 00:20:19,380 --> 00:20:20,439 Becca Gordon: out of it. These. 249 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:21,020 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 250 00:20:21,020 --> 00:20:22,739 Becca Gordon: ways that we want to handle. 251 00:20:22,740 --> 00:20:23,100 Melinda Lee: Right. 252 00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:30,029 Becca Gordon: strategically what comes up in the meeting, right? Right, right. And so, in the best situations, you have the time to do that, and you take the. 253 00:20:30,030 --> 00:20:30,830 Melinda Lee: time to prepare. 254 00:20:30,830 --> 00:20:32,250 Becca Gordon: In that way, as a group. 255 00:20:32,590 --> 00:20:56,880 Melinda Lee: Oh, yeah, I love that. It's so true, because it makes me think about all the times that we, even for us individually, when we're preparing for a presentation, we're looking at all the data, and trying to prepare all the script word for word, and then we just really forget, what is it that we're trying to… what is the purpose of my presentation? And so, like, having that forethought and planning as a team, what is the purpose of the presentation? Where's the direction that we're going? What is… 256 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:10,530 Melinda Lee: what are we trying to convey as a whole versus the individual parts, right? The individual parts and roles and tasks is important, but then coming back together to identify what is the purpose of the entire team as a whole, collectively. 257 00:21:10,530 --> 00:21:14,490 Becca Gordon: Exactly, and hopefully that is an environment for safe feedback, too, where if someone. 258 00:21:14,490 --> 00:21:14,960 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 259 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,929 Becca Gordon: is, like, talking too much, or too afraid to talk, or doesn't. 260 00:21:17,930 --> 00:21:18,360 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 261 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:22,280 Becca Gordon: say, or says something off-color, whatever it is, right? That… 262 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:22,700 Melinda Lee: Right. 263 00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:45,180 Becca Gordon: the rest of the group has built trust with that person over time, and has a way of saying, hey, you know, I really loved, you know, this compliment sandwich, right? Like, I really loved how, you know, confident you were to speak, and, you know, I really appreciate some of what you said about X, Y, or Z, and I don't know if you realize this, but, you know, we're going to have an hour-long meeting with this person, and what you said just took 40 minutes, so is there a way that, you know, you can consolidate some of those ideas? 264 00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:49,209 Becca Gordon: More so that when we get to this part of the conversation, your part takes 265 00:21:49,290 --> 00:21:51,540 Becca Gordon: You know, 8 minutes instead of 40. 266 00:21:51,540 --> 00:22:05,379 Melinda Lee: And as a leadership team, what do you think would be possible when they start to prepare for their presentations like this, versus just everybody go practice their individual components, versus what you just mentioned? 267 00:22:05,650 --> 00:22:08,469 Becca Gordon: Yeah, I think what's possible is, 268 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,700 Becca Gordon: Well, maybe I… I don't know if I'm understanding your question completely. 269 00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:14,140 Melinda Lee: What are the outcomes that you think that… 270 00:22:14,140 --> 00:22:18,359 Becca Gordon: The outcomes is that the team has a more cohesive approach, and that. 271 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:18,770 Melinda Lee: indeed. 272 00:22:18,770 --> 00:22:21,189 Becca Gordon: They seem more prepared, not. 273 00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:21,670 Melinda Lee: Because they… 274 00:22:21,670 --> 00:22:29,649 Becca Gordon: have more charts and more analytics to provide. I mean, those things exist, and they're useful, but because they have a plan, and they're. 275 00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:44,519 Becca Gordon: And a felt sense that the other person in the conversation has of, you know, this is orderly, this is prepared for, they cared about me enough to think about this conversation beforehand, they respect one another, they're in alignment, right? 276 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:44,850 Melinda Lee: Thank you. 277 00:22:44,850 --> 00:23:00,369 Becca Gordon: there's nothing worse than going into a meeting across a leadership team, and one person thinking that the primary purpose of the meeting is A, and somebody thinking the primary purpose of the meeting is B on the same team, and having that sort of polarity in that 278 00:23:00,790 --> 00:23:05,290 Becca Gordon: It really can create a lot of distrust and, like, brokenness with the person. 279 00:23:05,780 --> 00:23:06,779 Becca Gordon: to, just in. 280 00:23:06,780 --> 00:23:07,270 Melinda Lee: Right. 281 00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:17,189 Becca Gordon: as a human being, if you're seeing two people kind of go in two different directions, and they're meant to be on the same team providing service to you, or, you know, an organization that you're working for. 282 00:23:17,190 --> 00:23:39,539 Melinda Lee: Right, right, right. And it's so true. And so what about if it's a whole company? Because now we're talking about a team that can be, yeah, build that reputation with the client. And if you think about when companies build a culture of communication, not just as a soft skill, but as a standard with clear outcomes and, 283 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:45,890 Melinda Lee: clear standards for connection to clients. What is the impact of that for companies? 284 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,669 Melinda Lee: When they could do it across the leadership team and all the staff. 285 00:23:49,910 --> 00:24:02,399 Becca Gordon: It's tremendous, because there's a lot of research to back me up here. At the end of the day, people spend their money not with a company that provides the best product. I mean, providing a great product is important, don't get me wrong. 286 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:02,920 Melinda Lee: people. 287 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:08,139 Becca Gordon: People will choose the second best product if it's provided by people that they trust. 288 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:17,980 Becca Gordon: Every single time across the board. And so, you know, my specialty and the work that I've done, both internal to organizations, working with organizations, is really about that relationship management piece. 289 00:24:17,980 --> 00:24:18,920 Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah. 290 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:36,869 Becca Gordon: if you can get a cohesive strategy, training, and, you know, metrics that align with your plans for communication across your team to external bodies, and then, you know, setting aside the internal piece, because I think that's really important, too. I think that 291 00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:49,360 Becca Gordon: Your growth trajectory is markedly different, because the customers that you have feel seen, feel heard, feel taken care of across the organization, feel like your organization has a plan, right? 292 00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:50,050 Melinda Lee: Mine's one. 293 00:24:50,050 --> 00:24:50,830 Becca Gordon: another are, like. 294 00:24:50,830 --> 00:24:51,330 Melinda Lee: We're talking. 295 00:24:51,330 --> 00:25:04,949 Becca Gordon: execute something together, right? And people who are new to your organization and prospective clients are getting messaging that's in alignment from the different touchpoints that they have, whether it's, like, your marketing team, your sales. 296 00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:05,480 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 297 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:05,850 Becca Gordon: and… 298 00:25:05,850 --> 00:25:06,310 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 299 00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:09,910 Becca Gordon: People that they're speaking to on the back end about putting their package together, right? 300 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:14,829 Melinda Lee: Sounds good, I love it, I love it. And you, your two doula's birth was acquired. 301 00:25:15,010 --> 00:25:23,709 Melinda Lee: In 2017, you founded it, and it got acquired, and what do you think would be the through line? What do you think are some of the key indicators of success? How did you do that? 302 00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:24,670 Melinda Lee: So curious. 303 00:25:24,670 --> 00:25:27,070 Becca Gordon: That's probably, like, a whole hour-long conversation. 304 00:25:27,070 --> 00:25:28,060 Melinda Lee: I can't… 305 00:25:28,060 --> 00:25:29,270 Becca Gordon: In and of itself. 306 00:25:29,270 --> 00:25:29,870 Melinda Lee: I can carry… 307 00:25:29,870 --> 00:25:33,159 Becca Gordon: There were things that I did intentionally that were really useful, like. 308 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,769 Melinda Lee: Okay, let's share those, yeah. 309 00:25:34,770 --> 00:25:38,219 Becca Gordon: Like, identifying a product in a niche market that didn't exist. 310 00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:38,720 Melinda Lee: that needed. 311 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:39,649 Becca Gordon: To exist, that there was. 312 00:25:39,650 --> 00:25:40,160 Melinda Lee: Yay. 313 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:41,020 Becca Gordon: for. 314 00:25:41,020 --> 00:25:41,649 Melinda Lee: But then there were also. 315 00:25:41,800 --> 00:26:05,410 Becca Gordon: things that I lucked into, like, I didn't have a name for the company, I founded it with a co-founder, and we called it To Doula's Birth out of just it being practical, but actually, because of keywords and SEO, which were kind of just coming up in 2012 when we were founded, naming it 2Doula's Birth actually had, like, a huge impact in terms of our capabilities to grassroots market, because of, like, having doula and birth in the name. 316 00:26:05,410 --> 00:26:06,450 Melinda Lee: Yay. Right? 317 00:26:06,450 --> 00:26:08,640 Becca Gordon: And we just lucked into that, right? So I think… 318 00:26:09,180 --> 00:26:13,640 Becca Gordon: As a leader, there's a luck piece involved in taking any company to acquisition. 319 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:13,990 Melinda Lee: especially. 320 00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:21,459 Becca Gordon: If you don't originally have the backing of a large company or a large investor, and you're doing it from a, you know, grassroots growth model. 321 00:26:21,460 --> 00:26:21,810 Melinda Lee: Mmm. 322 00:26:21,810 --> 00:26:28,639 Becca Gordon: And then there's also things intentionally, right? And I think the key pieces for me are product and people, right? 323 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:29,390 Melinda Lee: And so… 324 00:26:29,390 --> 00:26:32,469 Becca Gordon: You have the right people, and you have the right product. 325 00:26:33,070 --> 00:26:39,029 Becca Gordon: you're a lot of steps ahead, and if one of those things is off, that's so core and fundamental to all these. 326 00:26:39,930 --> 00:26:42,029 Becca Gordon: We're talking about moving forward, really. 327 00:26:42,030 --> 00:26:52,289 Melinda Lee: So it sounds like you had the right product. Like you said, it was a niche, and it was needed in the market, you had the right word, the SEO, and then what about the people? How did you… what was your success in building the people? 328 00:26:52,740 --> 00:26:56,070 Becca Gordon: I think that that part was very intentional as well. 329 00:26:56,070 --> 00:26:56,570 Melinda Lee: and my. 330 00:26:56,570 --> 00:27:04,170 Becca Gordon: and I decided from a very early stage that the only people that we were going to work with, hire, refer to, have teaching our classes. 331 00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:14,700 Becca Gordon: Have in people's homes, have at their births, you know, because we had this whole, kind of, holistic care model that involved childbirth education classes and doula referral services and a lot of other things, community things. 332 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:31,210 Becca Gordon: And our commitment was, if we wouldn't want to see that person when we were in labor, if we would want to have that person, you know, walk into the room when we had a 3-week-old baby, then we're not going to work with them. And sometimes maybe there were people that we missed out on, because we just didn't resonate with that individual. 333 00:27:31,530 --> 00:27:35,250 Becca Gordon: You know, that might not be 100%… a batting 100, right, to do. 334 00:27:35,250 --> 00:27:35,730 Melinda Lee: Isn't me? 335 00:27:36,060 --> 00:27:45,549 Becca Gordon: But that was the way that we were like, you know, the way that we're going to have the right people for this organization on our team is that these have to be people that we would want to work with if we were our clients. 336 00:27:45,550 --> 00:27:48,490 Melinda Lee: it's reverse. Well, it worked! 337 00:27:48,490 --> 00:27:49,459 Becca Gordon: Yeah, it's good! 338 00:27:49,460 --> 00:27:54,759 Melinda Lee: Congratulations! Congratulations on your success, that's amazing, and… 339 00:27:54,760 --> 00:28:19,349 Melinda Lee: Oh, thank you so much. I learned so much today. I think you're, you know, just being authentic in those high-stakes moments. You shared so many tips about how to stay confident, how to prepare for the meetings, and what this all means for leadership teams and for companies that are really being thoughtful in the way that they communicate, and what that's perceived like to the clients. And so, really appreciate your time today, Becca. 340 00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:26,989 Melinda Lee: And, if there's someone that, you know, needs your help, they're listening right now, how can they get ahold of you? 341 00:28:27,210 --> 00:28:39,230 Becca Gordon: So, they can get ahold of me through my email, which is Beccafgordon at gmail.com. At this point, with my consulting practice, I was sharing with you pre-call, I do Zoom marketing, it's all word of mouth, so… 342 00:28:39,230 --> 00:28:39,640 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 343 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,660 Becca Gordon: Feel free to send me an email, and. 344 00:28:41,660 --> 00:28:47,770 Melinda Lee: Yeah, I mean, you're amazing, and so people refer you, and so congratulations. 345 00:28:48,010 --> 00:28:49,370 Becca Gordon: Thank you so much, I'm really. 346 00:28:49,370 --> 00:28:49,850 Melinda Lee: Yeah. 347 00:28:49,850 --> 00:28:51,970 Becca Gordon: I love having these conversations, I feel like 348 00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:59,140 Becca Gordon: my career where I really want to be mentoring and helping others as much as I'm, you know, doing things in my own practice. 349 00:28:59,140 --> 00:29:01,220 Melinda Lee: Well, yeah, and I always admire you, because I… 350 00:29:01,220 --> 00:29:01,760 Becca Gordon: opportunity. 351 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:13,269 Melinda Lee: No, you got… you have so much insight, you have so many insights with regard to operations, go-to-market strategies, but then you have this authenticity about you that I really admire, so thank you so much for being here. 352 00:29:13,610 --> 00:29:14,949 Becca Gordon: Thank you so much. This is fun. 353 00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:39,899 Melinda Lee: Yes, thank you, and thank you, listeners. I trust that you got your takeaway for today. Go implement them, and remember, anytime you have a chance to communicate, you are also connecting and sharing to make a positive difference in the world. If you've enjoyed this session, this episode, join me for the next one. In our next episode, we're going to talk about how to build your company and scale it without losing the 354 00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:41,310 Melinda Lee: Culture that built it. 355 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,149 Melinda Lee: Until next time, take care. Bye-bye.