Sarah Perugia (she/her): Hello

and

welcome

to

the

whole

truth

leadership

stories

with

Sarah

Perugia,

I'm

delighted

to

say

that

in

every

episode

of

this

podcast,

I'll

be

speaking

to a

values

led

leader

who

will

share

their

vision,

their

mission,

their

purpose,

and,

of

course,

their

unique

leadership

story.

I'm

Sarah,

I'm

your

host.

I'm a

whole

person,

leadership

transformation

specialist,

executive

leadership

master

coach

and

keynote

speaker,

and

I'm

on a

mission.

My

mission

is to

help

leaders

and

teams

operate

at

their

best,

fulfill

their

potential

and

enjoy

the

journey

too.

I've

spent

20

years

helping

organizations

all

over

the

world,

helping

them

to

develop

their

top

talent

and

build

inclusive,

connected,

collaborative,

gender

equal

teams.

What

I've

noticed

over

the

last

two

decades

of

doing

this

amazing

job

is

how

much

we

benefit

from

hearing

other

people's

stories.

When

I

host

events,

I

often

hear

the

feedback

that

the

audience

listening

to

leaders,

share

their

personal

stories.

Share

their

mission,

their

vision,

their

passions,

but

also

their

vulnerability

and

their

challenges,

has

been

really

inspiring

and

energizing

and

educational

and

really

help

those

people

in

the

audience

find

their

vision,

their

mission,

their

passion,

and

understand

that

they're

not

alone

in

their

challenges.

So

that's

what

we're

hoping

to do

in

this

podcast,

to

share

that

energy

and

that

inspiration.

So if

you're

a

leader

or an

aspiring

leader,

and

you're

in

search

of

your

career

vision,

perhaps

you're

wondering

what

your

mission

is.

Perhaps

you're

looking

to

enhance

performance

or

find

your

unique

voice,

or

perhaps

uncover

the

joy

in

your

career

journey.

This

podcast

is

for

you.

Joanne

Kerr

is a

leader

with

25

years

experience

of

helping

organizations

find

their

purpose.

I

personally

can

attest

to

Jo's

wonderful,

warm

leadership

style

and

fantastic

storytelling

skills

from

the

fantastic

work

that

we've

done

together,

which

was

super

enjoyable.

In

this

podcast

I am

speaking

to

female

leaders

who

are

passionate,

who

are

purpose

driven,

who

are

on a

mission

to

make

a

change

in

the

world,

a

change

in

organizations.

And

who

better

than

a

leader

whose

job

title

is,

in

fact,

head

of

purpose

at

the

wonderful

brand

pie,

a

very

valued

client

of

mine.

Jo

does

incredible

work

on

purpose

and

why

it

matters,

and

I'm

so

excited

to

have

her

with

me

today

to

talk

about

it.

Welcome

Jo,

thank

you,

Sarah,

it's

absolutely

wonderful

to be

here.

Sarah Perugia (she/her): Thank

you.

Thank

you.

Jo,

well,

look

what

I

want

to

do.

First

of

all,

Jo is

start

off

by

you

telling

us a

little

bit

more

about

what

being

head

of

purpose

means.

Sure,

and

so

obviously

I

work

for

brand

pie,

who

we

are,

a

purpose

transformation

consultancy.

So we

tend

to

work

with

large

B to

B

corporate

organizations,

often

with

global

scale.

And

as

head

of

purpose,

my

role

really

is to

work

with

organizations,

particularly

in

the C

suite,

to

help

them

find

and

define

the

purpose

so

the

sort

of

why

they

exist

beyond

profit.

And

then

as an

organization,

we

bring

that

to

life

and

operationalised

purpose

through

brand,

through

culture,

through

all

the

other

facets

of

the

of

the

organization.

So I

think

there's

sort

of

couple

of

bits

to

what

I do.

One

is

obviously

client

work,

so

working

with

organizations

to

really

unlock

that

purpose

and

build

that

sense

of

clarity

in

the

organization.

But

on a

sort

of

separate

side

to

that,

I'm

also

working

a lot

with

academia

to to

really

prove

the

value

of

purpose

and

why

it

really

matters

is

sort

of a

strategic

tool

and

to

and

to

push

businesses

forward

and

to

really

see

them

have

the

impact

that

that

we

all

believe,

that

they

can

absolutely

have

in

the

world.

Sarah Perugia (she/her): What

fascinating

work,

Joe.

So my

next

question

is,

why

does

it

matter?

You

know,

organizations

are

have

very

little

time.

Often

the

resources

are

scarce.

Why

should

they

spend

time

thinking

about

this

idea

of

purpose?

It's

really,

really

good

question,

and a

really

important

question.

I

think

everyone.

I

mean,

most

businesses

would

say

they

have

a

purpose.

Today,

we've

seen

that

change

a

lot,

particularly

over

the

last

five

years,

we've

been

tracking

CEOs

with

our

sort

of

annual

CEO

purpose

survey.

So

now

it's

fairly

well

understood

as a

thing,

but

actually,

in

terms

of

what

it

really

means

and

how

it

can

work,

is, I

think,

less

understood.

I

think

there's

a

number

of

reasons.

One

is

that

I

think

we

think

we

think

of

businesses

often

as

these

sort

of

physical

structures

and

buildings

and

things

like

that.

But

actually,

really

it's

a

collection

of

people

coming

together

to do

things,

you

know,

positively,

negatively,

however,

and

purpose

can

be a

really

strong

galvanizing

tool.

And I

think

to

give

that

clarity

for

an

organization,

I

think

we're

all

we've

all

been

through

a lot

of

change

in

the

last

few

years,

actually,

knowing

why

you

get

up in

the

morning

and

being

part

of an

organization

and

thinking

innovatively

and

sort

of,

you

know,

that

sort

of

basic

transaction

of I

go to

work

for

some

money

in

exchange

doesn't

really

cut

it

from

a

cultural

point

of

view

anymore,

and

neither

does

the

expectation,

I

think,

on on

organizations.

So,

you

know,

I

think

they're

under

a lot

more

pressure

to do

things

in

the

world,

to

attract

the

right

sort

of

talent.

All

of

these

things

are

really

important

and

and I

think,

separate

to

that,

I've

been

on a

bit

of a

mission

with

with

colleagues

in

university

and

Griffith

and

Australia,

to to

sort

of go

that

it's

not,

you

know,

you

can't,

you

don't,

I

guess

the

challenge

is,

you

don't

sort

of

say,

No,

we

don't

get

profit

if we

have

purpose.

Actually,

they're

they're

really

complimentary

things.

And

actually

what

we've

looked

at is

organizations

that

have

purpose

actually

perform

more

strongly

than

those

that

don't.

So I

think

that's

really

part

of

what

I'm

trying

to

do,

is to

show

that

both

can

work

really

strongly

together.

Mm,

Sarah Perugia (she/her): that

resonates

really

strongly

with

me,

Joe,

you

know,

as

you

know,

I'm a

positive

psychology

trained

coach,

and

there's

so

much

data

that

supports

the

idea

that

as

human

beings,

in

order

to

thrive

and

flourish

and

fulfill

our

potential,

we

absolutely

need

a

sense

of

purpose.

We

need

a so

what

and

and I

see

that

organizations

and

teams

that

are

purpose

driven

not

only

attract

top

talent,

but

they

retain

and

develop

that

talent

as

well.

So

absolutely,

that's

fascinating

to

hear

about

it

from

a

really

macro

perspective

in

terms

of

the

whole

organization,

because

obviously,

I'm

usually

working

with

teams

and

individuals.

Absolutely

fascinating.

Thank

you.

Jo,

well,

you've

mentioned

your

work

with

Griffith

University.

Tell

us a

little

bit

more

about

the

research

that

you're

part

of

there.

Sure.

So

we've

been

working

with

Griffith

University,

who

are

based

in

Brisbane,

Australia,

so

other

side

of

the

world,

and I

knew

Professor

Nick

barter

from

from

a

long

time

ago

through

from

a

work

context,

but

he's

been

there

heading

up

their

MBA

program

for a

while,

and

we

reconnected

actually

around

purpose,

and

really

started

to

talk

about

what

what

was

possible.

And I

think

it

was

just

a

really

interesting

match

between

the

work

that

we're

doing

with

clients.

I

think

they

obviously

gave

him

exposure

to a

lot

of

kind

of

real

world

and

particularly

European

and

and

US

centric

work.

He's

obviously

in

Australia,

and

then

what

it's

given

us is

access

to

some

really

smart

thinking

and

some

sort

of

particularly

sort

of

academic

but

also

statistical

resource

and

ability

to to

look

at

things

quite

differently.

So

we've

done

a

number

of

things

together.

One

of

them

was a

recent

review

of

the

FTSE

350

so

the

FTSE

100

and

and

250

here

in

the

UK,

looking

at

those

with

purpose

and

with

those

without.

And

we

found

a lot

of

great

things.

But

one

was

that

those

that

connected

their

purpose,

you

know,

what

they

did

to

what

the

world

needed

was

really,

really

strong

and

really

powerful.

Those

that

had

quite

a

succinct

purpose

of

about

16

words

or

less

actually

outperformed

those

with

long

waffly,

you

know,

sort

of

more

challenging

purpose,

which

I

think

was

fascinating

but

not

unsurprising.

I

guess

people

can

remember

things

that

are

succinct

and

powerful.

And

what

we

found

is

that

those

with

purpose

outperformed

those

that

didn't

on

return

on

assets

and

return

on on

equity.

So

when

you

take

out

size

and

scale

of

the

organization,

all

of

the

ones

with

purpose

generally

were

more

efficient.

So I

think

what

they

were

doing

was

extracting

more

value

from

from

their

organization.

And I

think

again,

that

comes

back

to

people

largely

so

that

sense

of

clarity

and

direction,

if

your

entire

organization

knows

where

you're

going

and

knows

that

it's

having

a

bigger

impact

on

the

world

around

you,

then

I

think,

you

know,

that's

where

some

of

those

efficiency

gains

and

that

sort

of

sense

of

momentum

and

direction

can

come

from.

So

that's

kind

of

just

one

of

the

reports.

But

you

know,

we've

been

doing,

you

know,

we've

got a

lot

more

lined

up

with

them.

And I

think

it's

just

a

really

nice

way

of,

kind

of

using

our

complementary

skills

as

well.

They

think

differently,

you

know,

that

sort

of

academic

lens

on

things

we

sort

of

thinking

differently

about,

sort

of

real

world

business

challenges

that

we're

sensing

on a

day

to

day

basis.

So

it's

just

a

really

perfect

partnership

for

us.

Sarah Perugia (she/her): How

amazing

I

really.

Love

that

expression

what

the

world

needs.

You

might

have

come

across

something

called

ikigai,

a

Japanese

concept.

It

really

that

popped

into

my

head

as

you

were

talking,

Jo, I

was

thinking,

Well,

yeah,

it's

all

about

actually

true

meaning

on a

deeper

level

in

our

lives,

isn't

it?

Ikigai

is

used

a lot

in a

sort

of

personal

context,

but

we

use

it

from

a

business

context

as

well.

So,

you

know,

it's,

to

me,

it's

sort

of a

roll

up of

the

same

sort

of

exercise.

And,

you

know,

we

sort

of

say,

you

help,

some

of

the

words

might

change

a

little

bit.

It

was

like,

What

Does

the

world

really

need?

What

are

we

best

placed

to do

that

can

deliver

that?

What

are

we

passionate

about?

All

of

those

same

things

I

think

can

apply

to an

organization.

And I

think

the

difference

for

me

is,

and

where

I

think

people

start

to

really

get

it is

when

you

have

a

purpose

that's

bigger,

and,

you

know,

that

sort

of

50,000

foot

view

and

opens

up

the

opportunity

to

what

you

can

do in

the

world.

It

creates

a

really

great

space

for

innovation.

I

think

people

can

think

bigger.

You

know,

it's

not

about

the

day

to

day

transaction.

It's

not

about

selling

more

widgets.

It's

about,

how

do we

do

this

differently

to

actually,

you

know,

change,

actually

the

business.

And

you

sort

of

see,

when

we

run

operationalization

of

purpose

sessions,

people

go,

Oh,

actually,

why

are

we

doing

that?

What

don't

we

want

to

do?

It

helps

to

sort

of

refine

not

just

what

you

want

to do

in

the

future,

but

what

you

should

perhaps

back

away

from

doing

now.

And I

think

it

can

really

help

with

that

sense

of

momentum

in an

organization

and

innovative

thinking.

Sarah Perugia (she/her): Jo

building

on

that,

I'd

love

you

to

expand

a bit

on

what

you

observe

when

you

go

through

this

process

with

a

team,

with

an

organization,

and

you

help

them

with

this

incredible

mission

of

finding

their

purpose.

What

do

you

see?

You

know,

on a

micro

level,

what

do

you

see

in

terms

of

people's

facial

expressions

and

behavior,

but

also,

what

impact

do

you

see

on

the

wider

business

when

they

found

this

purpose?

Yeah,

I

mean,

I

think

it's

a

really

interesting

thing.

I

never

talk

about

creating

a

purpose.

I

normally

talk

about

uncovering

it,

because

I

think

it's,

it's

normally

there,

what's

normally

buried

in,

in

the

people

that

you're

dealing

with,

but

also

the

organization

itself.

And I

think

every

business

generally

starts

out

back

at

the

very

beginning

to

solve

a

problem,

a

problem

of

society,

or a