00:00:00 Sana: This is belief, listeners. In fact, it's like a myth that is running through a lot of high performing workplaces. The belief that the harder someone pushes, the more valuable they are. The more hours they put in. The more loyal they look, the more pressure they absorb, the stronger they appear. I mean, yeah, on the surface it seems to work, right, listeners? I mean, targets get here. Deadlines. They're getting met. Promotions happen. Yeah. But then underneath that performance story, something else is happening. High achievers are burning out silently. Teams are operating in survival mode. And companies. I mean, unknowingly, they are building revenue engines that depend on human exhaustion. Now, let me quote something here. Listeners. Research from the World Health Organization and Taleb has repeatedly shown that burnout doesn't just affect well-being, it affects productivity, decision quality, and long term performance. Yet in many organizations, the myth still holds. Push harder and success will follow. But think about it what if that belief is actually one of the biggest hidden risks inside modern companies. My guest today in this episode has lived that tension from the inside.

00:01:42 Sana: So welcome back, dear listeners, to another very, very thought provoking, interesting episode on the Biz Blend podcast. I am your host, Sana. And let me share a bit about my guest with all of you. She spent years inside corporate life as the classic high performer. You know, the one who delivered, the one who worked harder than anyone else. The one who believed that the next level would unlock if she just, you know, pushed a little more. Until a defining moment changed the trajectory of her career. We'll discuss about that moment in the conversation listeners. But instead of chasing that particular moment or that output, she chose to build her own. Over the last seven years, Michelle has built revenue engines, scaled sales teams, served more than one thousand entrepreneurs and helped companies grow without burning their people out. And today, she teaches what she calls regulated high performance, disciplined execution, anchored in energy, autonomy, and clarity. So listeners, let's begin with this conversation and let's welcome our guest, Michelle. Michelle, welcome to this blend. And I'm really, really glad you are here.

00:03:04 Michelle Terpstra: Well, thank you so much. I was a wonderful introduction, and I'm really excited to talk about the myths behind high performance and how every leader and company has an opportunity to fix it so they can retain their top talent and still hit their targets. Absolutely.

00:03:19 Sana: I have a lot of questions in there, but I'm very sure our listeners will be so, so curious to know. Michelle, how did it all? I mean, I barely scratched the surface in the intro, but how did it all pan out for you when you had that particular realization, or maybe those moments of realization that, you know, this is not working out for you? You need to build your own path.

00:03:42 Michelle Terpstra: Yeah. So I think that there's been a couple of milestones in my life that have helped me further refine what high performance looks like and how someone can stay a high performer. And I should say there's a caveat here. I am not speaking to your average employee or your average person. I am talking to that top ten percent of high performers because they act, and they need things very differently than just the run of the mill, middle level performer. And so first, that's the first part that we need to talk about. And then outside of that, what happened to me is I always followed the traditional high performance method, which is hustle, hustle, hustle, take some kind of rest, like a vacation or a long weekend. And then you hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle again. And what I realized is that actually does not refresh or it does not refresh and it doesn't re-energize high performers. It may work for other types of performers, but not high performers. What happens is when we can't regulate our nervous system the same way that somebody else can. And so that rest period actually doesn't do what it's supposed to do. It's actually the contrary, which is agitating. So what happened is I did this for a long time, and then I had my own burnout. Um, I was working with a client. I loved the client. Everything was great. I act as a fractional CRO, but I was doing what I shouldn't be doing, which is the hustle, hustle, hustle, take a little rest, hustle, hustle. And when that engagement ended and it ended on great terms, super happy. Just fractional rolls always have an ending. And so when that when I was done with that client, I found myself on a couch for a month, a month. And Your audience doesn't know me, but I don't nap. I don't sit around. I am like every single moment of my day is scheduled. So it was really alerting to my husband, my family, my friends, and myself. And no matter how much I tried to push, I couldn't move. And that was a bit of the pivotal time where I had to sit back and say, you know what? This is not the best way to be a high performer. And what I did is similarly to in the United States, they just currently switched the food pyramid on its head, flipped it over. And so that's essentially what I did. And that's the best analogy I can give to high performance. And so anyway, that's my story. And I'm really excited to talk about what you can do as a high performer now to maintain that high performance without what I call self destruction.

00:06:23 Sana: Of course, of course. And I really appreciate that you shared it because it kind of similar to what I experienced. Maybe to not that degree, but yes. And the worst part is I keep on keep on saying in many of the conversations out there, I mean, because burnout is such a word that has been tossed around so many times, you know, to some, I think to a large to a huge extent. Now, people are not giving its importance. You know, it's similar to something like, you know, how work life balance kind of gets, um, uh, it's, it's reception. You know, now people are saying there is no work life balance. There's work life harmony. But then still, I think there are major, major organizations. And I think especially it kind of, uh, this, this shift has been, um, triggered or maybe I should say motivated, you know, post Covid when there has been always this debate between, uh, the return to office and the work from home because now people, you know, who those who are able to understand that, you know, there is an option where I can have flexible working hours where I can actually, um, not, you know, blend, but kind of harmonize my professional and my personal lives. There's definitely an option out there. And it's it's a huge debate. It's a huge ongoing debate. Uh, but, but moving on, Michel. Um, I think our listeners would be so curious to understand, especially when it comes to high performance. What is the biggest myth, you know, that ambitious professionals they are still buying into today?

00:07:52 Michelle Terpstra: Yeah. And first of all, I agree with you on the work life balance versus harmony. Harmony is absolutely where it's going. And I also agree that Covid definitely sparked it. But what also is sparking it, which I want to bring up, which is really important, is our next generation of employees. So the Gen Zers, um, like the millennials are resetting what the foundation and expectations are for the workplace. And they actually will tolerate lots less than millennials. So there is a general generation that is demanding a different environment, which most people are maybe kind of worried about, but I'm not because I see so much opportunity and I just understand how high performers work. So one of the biggest myths around high performance is what I had said before, which is the hustle, rest, hustle cycle actually helps people, um, re-energize and perform. The other thing that is a huge myth, um, is, and I kind of laugh when I say this because it's funny, but if you think about a lot of workplace culture, they, they try to say, come into the office, we have snacks, a massage chair, and we do super cool company events, right? And I'm like, oh, that's great. You know who that's great for your middle level performer or people right out of college, because what happens is the snacks are never going to be to standard for what a high performer wants. They're always on a specialty diet. They're always trying to refine themselves. So they're not going to eat your snacks too. Is a massage chair. In the middle of the day is absolute torture for a high performer. We can't shut off like that in the middle of the day. It's disruptive. We won't relax. We're going to get more agitated. Three is the company. Events are super fun, don't get me wrong. Like I love a good party. However, the high performers are responsible for the culture. So what happens is that these events, they're not relaxing for someone. They're fun, not relaxing because they're performative. And leaders depend on the high performers to bring the vibe, to bring the energy, to bring everyone together. So it's just performative. It's not allowing anyone to reset, reset, or refresh. So that is the secondary myth that I think is really important to bring up because companies and the recruiting strategy always say, we have snacks and massage chair cool events. And I'm like, great, then you know who you're attracting people right out of college and middle level performers.

00:10:23 Sana: That is actually true. That is actually true. And yeah, it's kind of makes sense because, you know, it feels like those sudden requests or that one or two days, you know, for example, Monday to Friday, you hustle, hustle, hustle two days, you can't even get out of your bed. You know, it's like the sudden jolt, sudden shock that your body, your, your mind is getting because now you are in a state of like a stop. And then that rhythm, it completely kind of breaks and then it kind of, you know, manifests into those, you know, emotional reactions or agitation. Um, sometimes, you know, we, we tend to, I mean, high performers tend to overreact to something. So it kind of breaks the rhythm into it. And, and of course, you know, the, the, the points that you mentioned, I mean, especially it kind of, you know, feels like quote unquote attractions just because you want to make you look workplace very, um, fun and trendy and end. Colorful. Yeah. It doesn't work for everyone.

00:11:26 Michelle Terpstra: It doesn't. It does not. So what does work, though? And what you're what you're talking about right now is actually really important. So you grind Monday through Friday, and then you try to use your weekends to hit the reset. But most high performers, you know, they are, they have just as busy social calendars, unfortunately, as they do professionally. And so what I believe in, and it's very simple, but it is super powerful. And companies need to respect and encourage. This is high performers need to be fueled daily, daily. They cannot run on empty. If you think about like if you think about people who use intermittent fasting, for example, right? So maybe they don't eat for they only eat dinner, or they only eat breakfast, or they eat every other day, like all of these different things out there, that fasting mentality. It's similar to the way that companies expect high performers to work. So Monday through Friday, we're not going to give you anything except for work. You have to follow my rules. You have to be here when I tell you, and you need to hit these numbers in the way that I tell you. And the problem with that is that's fine. Like I said, for someone straight out of college or a middle level performer, but high performers take it to an entirely different level. And the thing is, you never need to tell a high performer to work. You never need to set metrics for them. You never need to tell them they're accountable because they will do that themselves. And so what they need is they need to be able to fuel themselves daily so they don't go into a fasting stage of and they can't fill other people's cups if their cup is empty. So, for example, something could be this simple. This simple means you have a very specific morning routine. For example, you get up and you go to the gym. You spend a little time with your family, then you get ready and you're ready to work. Like, it could be seriously that simple that so many companies are like, be in the office at seven thirty two a m or eight forty five. And what that does is it doesn't allow just that slight flexibility and freedom for their high performers to fuel before they go do most of the work for the company. Oh.

00:13:44 Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah.

00:13:45 Sana: I've actually observed this. I mean, very, very particularly in, in one of my friend, like, um, it kind of, it broke down his entire, um, rhythm and it resulted kind of this, you know, um, this lack of interest, um, that lack of, uh, getting valued for the contributions for the work that, you know, he was doing, um, towards this company. And it's not just that he stopped working, but I think that, you know, that internal alignment, that care. It kind of started to, uh, reduce, which was very much evident in the way he actually, I observed him very carefully on something that he very openly shared with me that he kind of, you know, absolutely makes sense.

00:14:36 Michelle Terpstra: Yeah. You are doing a, you're doing a great job connecting the dots for the listeners with your stories because that is so true. Something very specific that you just said is that he started to disconnect. So what happens is that we set up safety barriers to protect ourselves. And so the first symptom that you're headed down that path is actually disconnection. And I've seen it time and time again. So if a company doesn't catch it, as soon as the disconnection starts happening, it is a matter of time before that person is moving on to another company or starting their own company because they can't find a good match.

00:15:14 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah. And, um.

00:15:17 Sana: Also, Michel, um, let's talk about the rules. You know the systems. Now I just want don't want to portray that, you know, high performers or they are like, you know, these rebels, but then when high performers, they start realizing that rules, you know, like the unspoken expectations, the politics, the systems, when they realize that these rules are not making, uh, safe places in there. Do you think that most people double down on performance or do they start questioning the structure itself?

00:15:56 Michelle Terpstra: That's a really good question. And actually, fortunately and unfortunately, most high performers operate by their own set of rules. And it is basically impossible for those rules to be ever be shifted. So, for example, in an interview process, cultural questions are really important when you're hiring a high performer because they will not bend. And if you don't bend and accommodate, it's just a matter of time before that person leaves. So that's, um, that's one point to it. And then also, um, I strongly believe that very small concessions by leaders, CEOs and founders, if they're willing to have those conversations, will create a perfect and wonderful environment for their high performers if they're just willing to listen. Because at the end of the day, one high performer, and this is my own rough stat, will do the work and produce the outcomes for three average people. So it is incredibly important. Small concessions are made for those rules for those high performers, and I know how it might come across is like, oh great, my high performers get different rules than everybody else, but they're, they're, um, really simple and easy ways that it doesn't break down culture. Um, that you can still accommodate what people need and quite frankly, um, what most high performers want is what everybody wants. So what small concessions can you make? So for example, flex time on arrival time, if you're an in-office culture. Okay. Just like a one hour window. And if you've ever worked in an office, you know, that first hour that an office is open is basically people just chatting with each other and having coffee. So is it really a huge concession to have the flexibility in that hour of arrival?

00:17:52 Sana: You know, something that you mentioned, and I'm very sure our listeners have this thing in mind. So let's as a manager, if I'm, you know, bending the rules or giving that flexibility for my high performers, high performing team members, but then it's kind of evident that I am not adhering, not adhering, but, you know, maintaining those flexibilities when it comes to my, uh, middle or the average performers in there. It doesn't, it kind of create a bias in there. Michelle. Doesn't it? Yeah.

00:18:24 Michelle Terpstra: So it's a really great question. So this is how I recommend approaching it and how I've led very large teams doing the same thing. First of all, the manager needs to advocate for what their team needs. That is their job to manage up. So if they can't manage up, quite frankly, they're not a good manager and they need some coaching themselves. So that's number one. Number two is you can make it really easy company policy around goal setting and achievement. So for example, a high performers most of the time is hitting their goals, right. So it's really easy to give them small concessions if you're middle, if your middle tier or your brand new employees want the same concessions, set goals for them in order to receive that same incentive.

00:19:12 Speaker 7: Yeah, I didn't make sense. That's why it's not just.

00:19:16 Sana: Black and white. It's such a nuanced in there with those. Yeah, it may look like that. There's a biasness, but then there's definitely the other side of the coin we address.

00:19:29 Michelle Terpstra: Yes, there is. And you just have to be. I think part of this is people do things that it's always been done this way or it shoulds or it's this or it's that. And you know, we have to break away from that, that we're living in an age of AI, for example, where frankly, everything is changing every day. So we can't expect to run businesses the same way from a people perspective, just as much as we can expect to run it the same way from a technology perspective. Yeah.

00:20:03 Sana: I think another very strong aspect that you advocate for is, um, the burnout thing. And most, most people think that it's always been an individual issue, a personal issue. It may affect your health. It may affect your mental health. It. It will just affect your work or it will be restricted to you only. But you frame it as a business risk. So how does a traditional, you know, grind harder hustle model of performance? It actually become a revenue risk for companies?

00:20:37 Michelle Terpstra: Yes. I'm so glad you asked that question because this is my favorite thing to tie it back to because I'm a chief revenue officer. So I care about ROI and hitting goals while maintaining the human side of business. And so this is a really crucial piece of the puzzle. This is what happens when you burn out your high performers. If you don't listen to what I'm saying, I will guarantee you it's going to happen. Like I don't even have it might it will. Um, I'm just that confident because I've seen it so much. So how does it impact revenue? Let's take for example, that you have your top performing sales rep who's absolutely Crushing it. Okay. Bringing in three times as much as everybody else. And there's usually is that disparity in sales teams. And that person like your friend starts to go towards burnout. What do they do that we discussed earlier? They start to disconnect. Well, when you start to disconnect as a in sales, guess what happens? It means you don't manage your pipeline correctly. It means you start canceling follow up meetings. It means you don't give two pieces anymore and you're late on your turnaround for proposal for proposals. You aren't spending time nurturing relationships. You aren't going to events after work to find more people. So what happens is quietly, your high performer is like literally dying a slow death behind the scenes. And meanwhile, the companies just push, push, push. That person cannot be pushed by a company, period. High performers. You cannot tell them to do more intrinsically. They already do as much as they possibly can. So that seller is also now starting to look for a new job or thinking if they can buy a business or something. So not only are they disconnecting from their daily activities and performance requirements, they're also spending time most of the time on the clock looking for another job. So what happens? You're going to lose revenue. Sales. You will be dramatically impacted. So that is one example. The other example is what happens when that person does quit. It is so expensive to recruit, interview and hire. And if you keep churning your top performers and having to replace them, you are burning unnecessary cash. And you're also taxing all of your leaders within your organization by replacing people instead of keeping people there, because that matters and makes sense. So everyone can focus on growth and not replacing their high performers.

00:23:11 Sana: So logically, I mean, this is something that I have also witnessed. I mean, uh, okay, let me bring in a kind of, you know, something to support this because if in case they don't agree with this concept, you know, when it comes to operations research, um, a single point dependency, you know, when a system relies too heavily on one critical component. I mean, look at it. I mean, you are putting the performance of the entire team on your high performance. And when they are not able to perform, they're just assuming something is wrong with them. And you keep on pushing harder and harder till the point that the entire their tenacity kind of breaks down. And if that component fails, then the system becomes unstable. And I think, I think this this tends to happen. Many companies out there, many teams out there.

00:24:07 Michelle Terpstra: Yes. I think that you're bringing up a great point. You would absolutely never want the company to be held to be held like that by just a few top performers. However, every company needs to protect their high performers. And so actually, I'm going to give you an example. So I was currently working with a very large enterprise company. And what I did for them, they had forty two field reps and territory managers, and all forty two have never used a CRM, and they never had a sales process, and they were all operating underneath their own set of rules. Now, as you can imagine, a large enterprise company without all of those things in place, that starts to become a struggle and an issue with revenue. After some time. So they hired me to come in to redo the sales process and train the sales team. And part of my process when I do that through all of my trainings, is I'm able to analyze rep performance and rep potential. So I tear them into three tiers. Tier one is your high performers. Tier two is are the ones that need the most coaching, but show the most high potential to impact the bottom line. And then the bottom tier is unfortunately who you should let go. Because in my evaluation, there's not a lot of hope and they're dragging down the team. So the people that need the most focus is actually the middle tier. The top tier. If you just let the top tier performers have some concessions and allow them to fuel daily, they'll go do the thing and they will rock it. But that middle tier is so mission critical. That's where the coaching hours need to be. That is where the support needs to be. And the reason why is you have a potential to make them a high performer, which will actually impact the bottom line more than trying to squeeze out another ounce from someone who is already a high performer.

00:26:03 Sana: That was exactly. I was actually coming to life. But because there is so much potential, I mean, it's like this shock absorber that is the shock absorber. And if you're investing time into coaching, training, mentoring, maybe, you know, assigning them buddies, having one on ones with them, they have that potential. I mean, you as a manager, you know that they have the potential. You may have the support systems out there to identify, you know, these people, these models have the highest potential. You just need a little, uh, guidance to get to that desired, uh, point.

00:26:44 Michelle Terpstra: Yes, exactly. And so, and that also helps your, your leaders who, it helps your leaders know who to focus on, not to just build them up as humans and performers, but for the success of the company.

00:26:56 Sana: Okay. Awesome. And Michelle, before we wrap up, um, a bit kind of, uh, um, event, which is good, that is. Sure. And intensities are exactly what create elite almost. So let's say if you look at the industry, it's like, um, okay, tech startups from final sports, high stress environments that often produce exceptional results. So is burnout really the problem? Or it's simply that we have to pay a high. We have to pay the price of high ambitions. It's like a sacrifice.

00:27:40 Michelle Terpstra: You know? Would you mind repeating the question? I had a hard time hearing the beginning.

00:27:44 Sana: Oh, okay. Like we've seen a few. So from a perspective of, you know, burnout. So I'm kind of playing the devil's advocate here that many people would say in strong environments, high pressure environments, you know, let's say if we look at industries like finance, sports, let's look at sales only. If you are not pushing more and more. These are highly stressful job roles. So to have exceptional, great results, you kind of have to sacrifice. You know, maybe your health, your time, you have to put more and more, invest more and more time into it. And it's kind of the burnout is kind of the, the price of high ambition. So do you think that it is the price to pay for or is it really the problem in there?

00:28:35 Michelle Terpstra: Oh, I love this question. I actually have the chills right now because it's such a profound question. So there it's a mixed answer. It's a mixed answer. So high performers, what they're really, really good at is the eighty over twenty rule, which means they do a fantastic job at realizing that out of everything they do, what twenty percent of they do, of what they do on a daily basis, weekly, monthly, yearly actually drives results. So activity does not equal results. Activity makes CEOs, founders, leaders feel really good about their team because they can measure all the things they're doing right. But I would argue that those that understand the eighty twenty rule, which means let's say you grind for like three months at a new sales job, okay? And then you go back and you look at all of your data and your insights and you're like, wow, I spent an enormous amount of time cold calling with not one response. But when I spend three hours on LinkedIn, I booked appointments. So why the heck am I cold calling? Oh, I'm cold calling because my manager says I need to make X amount of cold calls. Oh that's interesting. Well, that is a ridiculous use of your time because you've just analyzed your data. So wouldn't it be better to just go spend all of your time on LinkedIn? So it is an activity myth that activity drives results. It's also a myth that time drives results. And let me explain with the time. It does not mean you get to work two hours a day and make a million dollars. Okay, I don't want to say that because that would be ridiculous, right? But most high performers cap out after six active hours of working a day. Okay, now they what they can do in six hours. It takes a middle performer or someone new, probably ten or twelve hours to do the double the amount of time. And the thing that's really important here is that if we focus on outcome and goals, then we don't. As high performers, the twelve fifteen hour days are usually not needed. Now, are there times where they are? Absolutely. I have worked my fair share of around the clock to get where I am. However, you have to be careful because if that's what is, if twelve to fifteen hour days is what's needed to make you successful in your role or successful as a business owner. How long can you sustain that for? And is it actually did you actually structure it correctly? So I would go back to their go to market plan and be like, you missed something here because you can't run a business where you require everyone to work fifteen hours a day. So we need to take a step back. And that's what I do as a chief revenue officer. And I say, hey, let's reevaluate the go to market strategy. Let's reevaluate people. Let's reevaluate cash flow and cash burn and see how we can solve this. Because in the long play and not just in the next ninety days, what do you want? A lot of activity to show your investors and your board? Or do you want sustainable maximum growth? That is the question.

00:31:48 Sana: And I think that's what regulated performance is trying to create. It's like a sweet spot somewhere in the middle. And you keep you kind of look backwards. You kind of evaluate backwards activity versus the time, time versus, um, the efforts, efforts versus the output, like, you know, keep not keep on evaluating all the time, but at least you kind of be mindful in evaluating like, you know, whether the six hours or maybe the twelve hours of activity that you're doing, is it actually bearing the fruits in there? Or is it just, you know, mindless with no output, no result in there?

00:32:24 Michelle Terpstra: Exactly. So that's all I'm asking people to do is please just pay attention. And if that activity doesn't result in the result that you want, then is it the amount of wasted time or is it the strategy? And for me, that is one of the most fun problems for me to solve is what's happening within this organization from a sales perspective, marketing perspective, customer success, all of the revenue arms, the revenue engines, like how can we fix this? How can we have you reduce the churn of your employees, have them create better outcomes and allow them to have regulated high performance? And I will also say this goes to every founder and CEO that I know. I am speaking right at you. You need to do this too, because a burned out CEO or a founder is not going to make the best decisions for the organization. And I admire your ambition, and I see you and I have worked with you so many times. It's like I can read your mind. And please just reevaluate the strategy and make the necessary changes.

00:33:29 Speaker 8: Of course. Of course.

00:33:30 Sana: Brilliant. Uh, Michel, before we conclude this powerful conversation. Really thought provoking. I must say, um, of course, if our listeners, they would like to reach out to you, what's the best way?

00:33:43 Michelle Terpstra: Perfect. Yes. So I have a podcast that's called Revenue Rascals. So my first request is to go listen to some episodes, and I would love to hear how they help you. You can make, um, reviews or comments. You can also email me at hello Michel dot com. I read every single email that comes to that inbox and I would love to hear your feedback. You can go to revenue dot com for more information and to find the podcast on your favorite place. And the second thing is, is I have an upcoming workshop, a two part series in April and May. You can go to our revenue rascals dot com forward slash High-Performance workshop. And because you're a listener of Biz Blend, you can use promo code Biz Blend for fifty percent off.

00:34:28 Sana: Ben restlessness isn't it? So yeah, what I'll do is I'll have all the links mentioned in the show notes. So go check out this list, listen to Michelle's podcast Revenue Rascals, and also check out our workshop. I put all the details, find them attached mentioned in the show notes along with this episode on whichever platform you're tuning into right now. And, um, Michelle, thank you so much. Because, um, what, what I personally realized here is that I'm very sure the listeners, my listeners will agree with mean that performance isn't just about effort, it's about clarity, systems, and sustainability. And I think that maybe, maybe the real question companies need to ask is not how hard are people are working, but is the way we are working actually designed to sustain success for long term or not?

00:35:26 Michelle Terpstra: Yes, absolutely.

00:35:27 Speaker 9: I think that's a great summary.

00:35:30 Sana: Awesome. So thank you so much for tuning in to this episode. Michelle. Thank you once again for such a thought provoking, such a power packed episode. Thank you. Thank you so much.

00:35:40 Speaker 9: Thank you.

00:35:43 Sana: And until next time, this is Anna. And if you enjoy conversations that go beneath the surface of business like this one, do follow this blend. And until next time, stay curious. Join us for the next conversation. This is Anna signing off. Thank you and take care.