Why do so many people feel lonely, even though we've never been more connected?

Welcome to the Lonely Chapter, a podcast for people who are doing okay on the surface, but quietly unsure how to live well.

Today's episode is with Nini Fritz, a connection and wellbeing facilitator exploring one of the quiet tensions of modern life, the gap between being seen online and being known in real life.

In this conversation, we talk about the big city loneliness, the dopamine loop of social media, and why having lots of interactions isn't the same as having real connection.

We also explore what actually helps people rebuild community again.

From intentional office spaces to learning how to be more at home with yourself, this conversation is about attention, belonging, and what it really means to feel connected.

If this resonates, please do follow or subscribe where you're listening.

It helps these conversations reach the people who might need them.

Let's get into it, Ninny.

Considering that this podcast is called the Lonely Chapter, where better place to start?

Why do you think people are feeling so lonely in this world?

That is a very good question.

I wish I had a solution for it, but at least I do think I have an answer.

And based on my assumption and research in the field, it's because of the rise of social media.

We're so connected in the online world that we have like thousands of Instagram followers, LinkedIn connections, YouTube subscribers, which makes us think that we're super connected.

But then once we have that reality check in and actually that's those 3am friends, it's like, who would you call when you actually have a problem?

The numbers significantly dropped, like for males even more than for females, but the amount of actual strong real life friends is significantly low.

And it's like this perceived misconception of what we think we have available in our lives in terms of relationships compared to, you know, the shocking reality of what's actually left under the bottom line, makes us feel extremely lonely.

Plus, also like all these online connections are rather superficial instead of actually filling our need for depth and meaning.

So yeah, it's quantity over quality and it actually doesn't leave us as fulfilled as like a handful of good friends.

It's interesting for something that's so like say it's you're connected in a way to these thousands, sometimes more people and people can still feel so lonely with it, with that and just disconnected.

And I suppose comparison comes into it too, which we'll get into in a moment.

But can an online connection ever be like a true connection, do you think?

I Generally think it can for sure.

I think the beauty of these online connection is that sometimes when, let's say we live in a small town and we have a very niche specific interest and we can't really find like minded people in our local community, the online world opens like a whole new world for us to actually connect with the people that we truly want to connect with in terms of shared interests and not just closest proximity.

But I think deep down it just comes back to intention.

Like what is the main reason you're reaching out to people online?

Is it for validation?

Is it for likes and followers or is it for genuine connections and shared interests?

And I think that makes a difference, I suppose.

Yes, it's the intention exactly.

That is how you connect with that person.

Are you just looking at them, checking that they're liking all your stuff and not really talking to them or are you jumping on a video call every week because they're the other side of the world and that's the only way you can keep up with what they're doing.

Yeah, because like consumption and engagement doesn't necessarily form connection.

And it's like you can like someone's story or you can watch someone's story but then it's not like an exchange, it's just like an acknowledgement of each other's existence.

So you know that person's been there, seen that and like in the milest way is interacting with your life.

But it's not an exchange, it's not like a two dimensional street or conversation.

It's just a one sided acknowledgment which gives our brain like a signal of like dopamine and like I'm being validated, I met her, but it's just not the same as a real life hug or a smile or a genuine compliment.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, we've like been tricked to chase that dopamine in the engagement.

And the number of likes and is the number of views going up?

Is the number of likes going up and yeah, almost being tricked into trying to use that to replace connection, surely.

And it's like if all these people are liking my stuff then I must matter, then I must be important.

Um, and it actually is also like neuroscientifically proven that every single like and social media, every single, you know, push notification, someone engaging with our content sends out the same amount of dopamine and endorphine to our brain as someone smiling at us.

So it basically not just under the bottom line tells us that we're craving Connection.

We're craving this validation and being seen by others.

And because we just have like this quicker access to it in terms of quantity.

Once we put a picture out there and like 100 people liking it, honestly, we generate like, how much time does it take to generate like a hundred genuine smiles from strangers on the street?

Probably forever.

So our brain is just primed to go, like the easy way to dopamine and those feel good hormones.

So we're gravitating towards the online world for this quicker rush, but it's just not as fulfilling.

It's kind of like going for junk food instead of this nourishing soul food because we're just hungry.

We got to get something in our system that fills our current need.

But it's not necessarily like the sustainable, like long term nourishing healing that we deeply, deeply crave.

We're going for that quick fix rather than the, the long, the right, the.

Right humans are still being humans.

Let's talk about the real world.

So when we look at big cities, so I live in London, you're the other side of the world.

But when we look at these big cities, what is big city loneliness?

I've seen you speak about that.

Yeah, yeah.

Big city loneliness is in itself almost like.

What's the word?

Like a contradiction in itself because, you know, we're surrounded by millions of people, so you would think it's much easier to connect with a lot of people, but it's almost becoming like, overwhelming.

You're exposed to so much stimulation to like hundreds of people when you're rushing to work in the metro, in a rush hour at work, wherever you are, that you're actually not going for depth.

Like, you just have a lot of like weak ties and you know, like on the rush connections, but they're not actually meaningful connections.

Like, there's a lack of eye contact, there's a lack of like warmth, affection, actually knowing your neighbors.

I've recently heard that apparently only like 5% in big cities actually know their neighbors.

Like, we don't know their faces, we don't know their names because it's often like very fast paced, especially in this very globalized world.

Like living in big cities.

Like, you tend to live in a global melting pot, which also means people might just be there for like a short time, not like a long time.

They just come for great work opportunities, but they're not necessarily really here to settle.

So it's more like short term connections because you work in close proximity or you go to the same gym.

But yeah, people are so busy as young professionals living in big cities.

And then the quantity of people in your environment doesn't necessarily make up for the quality.

And then it's quite a similar effect than the social media that we think we have all these connections available and then we actually end up feeling lonelier because we look around trying to lock eyes and we don't need a single pair of eyes to connect deeper.

And then we again feel this.

This.

Yeah, this gap between perceived connections around us and actual absolute connections in our lives.

It's so interesting because, like you say, it sounds like it shouldn't be possible because we're surrounded by all these people.

And you go to, especially in the uk, you go to like the rural areas.

You walk past anyone and it's eye contact and a hello and a smile.

Yeah.

And as a Londoner, you're like, this is, this is strange.

But then when they come to London, it's like everyone's head down in their phones on their way to the next meeting.

Yeah.

Like, don't look at me.

If you look at me, I'm gonna think you're weird.

That's.

Yeah, that's almost what it's like.

Yeah.

It's like you're trying to avoid it, not to be perceived as a grief.

I think as a woman, it's probably easier to get away with it, but as a man, especially like when you're, you know, not in your 20s anymore, let's put it that way, like it might come across the wrong way if you're just trying to make like genuine human connection and a share moment of eye contact with someone.

Yeah.

Certainly difficult.

And I do think another factor in cities like London or here in Sydney as well is that the costs of living are so extremely high that people actually live in one better.

It's like very small apartments.

So even if you want to nurture a connection or relationship, just inviting people over to your home, which is like a fast route to create like this deeper connection and like deepening a relationship by inviting someone into your home, into your place, like into your private setting, that's a, you know, that's a fast track to connecting deeper.

And because people actually don't have the capacity nor like the financial means to afford like big apartments, that is another component that we don't get to act on really.

So you either like meeting outside in restaurants, which adds up, so people definitely save money on eating out or maybe just for like an after work with your colleagues, but you're pretty much seeing them all day and that doesn't mean you're connecting because you actually like each other.

It might just be because it's convenient not to schedule anything extra instead of traveling halfway across the city to catch up with that one friend that you actually share a good conversation with.

How do we start to fix this then?

So we've spoken about the social media aspect, the online world.

Yeah, we're talking about the real world and especially cities.

But also there will be people not in cities who do feel lonely as well.

Yeah.

What's the answer?

There's obviously not one simple answer, otherwise we'd have done it.

But luckily I do feel like there's a movement at the moment that's coming towards us.

I feel like every hype is followed by like a craving for less.

You know, it's like you, you climb up higher and higher and higher.

It's like more social media, bigger cities, like more fast paced and eventually you just want to slow down.

It's like take me back to the roots.

So there's actually a bunch of initiatives popping up.

Like the offline club for instance started in Amsterdam which was like a huge initiative to create more intentional and fun offline events that bring people together by actually locking their phones at the entrance so they're not allowed to use phones.

And they have different setups.

They can do like silent reading nights, but then also connection games, board games, anything that just gets people to get either connect with themselves or with each other.

And that actually had created a very positive ripple effect into other cities as well.

They're now having community managers and I think in London, in Munich and Lisbon.

That's definitely one thing.

Then there's also, it's massive in Sydney but I do think it's also pretty popular in other cities.

Run clubs are the new nightclubs.

Yeah, last year or so they've popped up everywhere.

Yeah, like honestly like people here are joking that nightlife is death.

And like people especially like Jen said, they don't go out anymore.

Like strawberry matcha are now the vodka, vodka soda, the 2000 and tens and that's like a great way for people to, to mingle organically like with that fresh, just woken up energy before you give your all at work and then you know, you come home after work and it just being a bit depleted and you only have let's say 20% left in the tank.

The idea is really to, to socialize before work when you have like your freshest energy, ideally after coffee.

So there's lots of like intentional community events that actually drift away from drinking.

So I do feel like alcohol is a little less popular than it used to be and more genuine organic connections.

Morning raves.

Anything that gets people to connect before they even go to work is definitely a big thing to bring people together in the real world.

And then there's also great initiatives that actually use the perks of social media or the online world to get people together in real life.

Like one of them, for instance, is time left.

So there's a great initiative where basically you sign up to the app or to the platform and you fill out like a short personality test and then they met you with a group of, I think it's five strangers on a Wednesday evening.

They send you location for a restaurant and then five strangers meet up in a restaurant and you have a vague schedule or agenda of games to play or topics to talk about.

So it's not like awkward silence.

But yeah, using the power of social media and it's not black or white, it's just a matter of how are we using it to then actually bring people together that otherwise would not have met.

I mean, same counts for online dating.

There's nothing wrong about it, but if you just go for quantity instead of actually going for quality and genuinely meeting someone, it's.

It's losing its purpose.

But yeah, they're definitely like great initiatives of using the power of social media and getting people together in the offline world and yeah, creating more communities.

I think really community and intention, especially in big cities, it's.

That's what makes the major difference, I think in person.

Communities is something that's going to be more and more popular in the next few years.

Everything you said is, I agree with.

I think there's a slight step away from being online as much and people want to try and be more purposeful.

And it comes back to that word that you said earlier, intention.

Like it's how you're using it.

So.

Yep.

What mindset are you using when you go into that social media app?

Are you going to find someone and chat to them?

Are you just going to scroll for an hour and waste time that you can't even remember what video you watched two minutes ago?

Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, I definitely think that's a good thing.

And hopefully with yourself and the more people who are speaking about it, it will become more and more popular.

If someone is feeling lonely right now, you've obviously said a couple with like the run clubs and stuff like that and a couple of those apps.

What are some of the easiest ways for people to go out and meet.

People that's a good question because I think it's very subjective.

There's no one fits all solution.

I do think we're all unique in our own colorful and wonderful ways.

So I think it's definitely a different approach for extroverts compared to introverts.

Like extroverts, they supercharge their energy by surrounding their self in a social environment.

And introverts actually they need their me time to or like very intentional time with very few like minded people.

So they definitely have a different approach than the extros who just want to go out and meet everyone.

But yeah, it depends on the city.

I would say meetup is still a big thing.

So that's an online community where you can basically find communities for literally everything.

Like meetup is if you want to go hiking, if you want to do a pub crawl, if you want to do yoga night, like people share those events and then everyone can just tag along.

So be proactive.

I think that's one of the things like look out for the local community platform and then yeah, just be well aware.

Like I, I speak out of my own experience.

I would say I'm definitely much more of an extrovert.

But when I moved back to Sydney last year after being out for five years, honestly it's tough being a new one.

Like it does require a lot of activation energy to have a lot of day ones with people.

Um, and it can be very like frustrating if you, especially if you're new to cities, like you just want to go back to your comfort zones.

Like you're, you're always, you just moved to a new place.

It's like you're probably always just one click away from booking a flight or booking a train ticket back to your comfort zone where like people know your name.

You don't have to crack the same jokes over and over again.

So like you have your standing, like you walk in and they just, you know, you share history with people but don't let it hold you back from showing up.

Like connections have to be nurtured.

Like I think we live in this fast paced, one click, instant gratification society that we expected.

Everything is available in the snap of a finger.

Like we want something online, we buy it on Amazon, we want to watch a movie, we don't have to go to Blockbuster.

Like we can just, you know, click on it on Netflix.

Like we just have to instant gratification around us.

And it works in so many different ways in our digital environment, but it does not work for deep connections and relationships in Our lives, like they have to be nurtured and we have to consistently show up and nurture them.

And I think if you move to a new city, it always comes a bit with a sorting out phase.

Like in the beginning it's about quantity.

Like you just show up to as many different community events of whatever vaguely ticks the box.

Like anything that sounds interesting, like, can be a surf club, can be a meditation group, can be a business group.

Like anything that vaguely resonates with one part of your personality bubbles and then you go and then you figure it after if you enjoyed that, if you want to go back or you don't, but you have to go to figure it out.

And then sometimes it's not like an instant.

Hell, yes, maybe you have to go again and then you have to go a third time and eventually you get your foot in the door, you become like a familiar face and people let you in.

But don't underestimate how challenging that could be.

So that's definitely one thing.

Like don't give up too early because no, it's, yeah, it takes a little bit of time to crack through the wall, but once you're in, you're in.

And then you're so grateful and you're going to be so proud of yourself that you didn't give up and that you consistently showed up.

Because there is going to be a turning point and also depends whether it's like whether winter or summer.

Like literally people change their personalities.

Community life is a whole different life.

People are out and about.

If the weather is sunny and warm and people just want to hang out in the park, like there's much more going on.

So invest in those relationships and yeah, don't, don't give up too early.

People think they have to fit into whatever everyone else is doing as well.

So like if it is a drinking culture place, I've got to go to the pub.

I don't really like drinking, but I'll sort of do it.

Maybe I'll meet someone and then maybe they'll like what I like.

So we're actually now in a place where if you've got a very niche thing and you like Warhammer or you like whatever else is, you're really into reading specific books, whatever it is, you can go online and find people.

If you like chess, you go to a chess club, you can go to these places where your passion is everyone else's passion and you're finding all these people with this shared, like thing that you love.

And especially for introverts, when you speak to an introvert or someone who maybe struggles to communicate as easily as some other people.

They are quite quiet and reserved until you find that one thing.

Yeah.

That they love and then they just.

Talk and they love it.

So I think if you can, if you can use that as an introvert, find whatever you love and try and go and meet other people that love that as well.

Like find your spark.

Yeah.

I also think honestly, it's like a beautiful way to reconnect with yourself.

Like if you move to a new city or even if you just want to reinvent yourself in a place you've always been living in.

Yeah.

I feel like the more you move or the more you change your environments, like you said, soon, sooner or later you're going to come to the realization that everywhere you go, there you are.

It's like you can't change the settings and environments.

But in the, in the end you always hang out with yourself.

So if you want it or not, sooner or later you're going to be forced to actually work on that relationship with yourself because you are all you ever have.

You know, if you live in Australia, Bali or Europe, you're the only constant in your life.

So I think it's a beautiful way to make sure that you know at least that one person you're in control of and you're always going to hang out with.

Make sure it's a great relationship.

Like make sure that you even enjoy your own company.

And if you find yourself in communities or events where it's like, I'm not vibing with anyone here, make sure you're your own best friend is like, at least I got myself to hang out with and then create like intentional me time moments.

I do genuinely think that magic happens when you choose yourself.

Like you can meet the greatest people completely unintentionally by just doing something purely for the joy of it.

Like if you go to a museum because you're interested in that, but you don't have any friends who are, you know, who share the same interest, you might make great friends there.

Like it's, it's not that you, you always have to have your buddy to do things with.

Like, if you don't have anyone, do it yourself and trust the magic of life that eventually you know, by being in your most authentic and aligned energy, you're going to attract like minded and like vibing people who share the same interests, who see you in your, your brightest light and feel magnetically drawn to that and they might become your people.

Yeah, that's That's a really important point.

Def.

Like, definitely one thing I've noticed from moving countries a few times, and the other thing that I also find in a way, like, fascinating and beautiful is like, for me personally, was, like, a move in my 30s.

I just turned, like, 31 when I moved back to Sydney.

And, yeah, it's definitely like, a whole different thing to, you know, build a new life from scratch.

If you're like a young professional working compared to being in your mid-20s or being a backpacker, and you just meet people by chance, like, in a hostel or in a pub crawl, you work in a cafe.

It's like, it's a whole different lifestyle, but people connect in a different way when their lives are busier.

Like, you don't just, like, you know, throw your energy around and your time because you have so much of it, you definitely become much more selective who you invest in, who you spend your time with and who you give your energy to.

So it goes both ways.

So I think it's a.

It's a beautiful way to set your life up intentionally, like, to really design your life based on who you are today.

If you move to a new city and, like, do more things that align with that version of who you are at this point of your life compared to just doing the things that you've always been doing.

Because, you know, that's the restaurant I've always been going to, or, like, that's the gym I've always been going to.

You just do it by default.

But you.

You don't really question if that's still serving you.

Like, the world around you keeps on changing.

Like, is that really still the best pizza?

Or, of course, like, if you have a connection with the people working there.

Or it's like, you know, it's like your second living room.

Who cares if, like, the place next door, like, as a margarita pizza, it's just like, 2% better.

Like, that doesn't matter, but in the sense of, like, you know, reinvent yourself, never stop exploring and build your life intentionally in a way that feels very true to yourself.

And I think then you also feel less lonely because you're feeling more fulfilled from the inside.

You said about comfort zone.

Yeah.

You mentioned about if you move to somewhere, maybe it's very tempting to run back to that comfort zone that, you know that.

That previous life almost.

Yeah.

And whether you've moved to a new city or you're trying to reinvent yourself in the current one, it can be very scary to put yourself out into those new situations.

Of course, yeah.

What is the importance of stepping outside of that comfort zone and embracing it?

Effy?

Very good.

I love that question.

That's a very good one.

Because it's too easy not to do it.

I think it's ingrained in our human nature that our brain is lazy by default.

We're just primed to save as much brain capacity and energy as we possibly can.

And anything stretching our comfort zone feels like effort, and our brain does not like effort.

But there's definitely a beauty in this weebly wobbly in between zone.

So it's not necessarily grow get out of your comfort zone.

And then, you know, you get there and you learn something new.

There are actually like four stages.

So it's this first stage after the comfort zone is where you most likely to go back.

It's like, well, you know, you feel like very insecure and you still have the opportunity.

Like you just one foot out, but like, you can still go back.

You know, it's like you just, you just started driving, like moving away from your city, but you may be like 50km away, so you could still turn the car around.

It's like, I'm not that far away yet.

But eventually you go further and further.

And then you realize like, oh, now that's the very awkward zone.

You're facing all these new challenges.

Like, you're too far away from turning around, but you're also kind of not quite there yet to build up that new life.

And that's like the most unpleasant stage to be in.

It's like you feel overwhelmed.

Like, lots of new things to learn.

Like you feel like you're juggling like so many balls at the same time and you can't barely keep one ball up in the air.

But eventually it's like that's just growing your capacity.

And I feel like you then rise to the occasion.

Like there's.

There's this saying, it's like you don't know how strong you are until you have to be.

And I think that's really what stretching our comfort zone does to us, that we're like forced to question things the way we've always been doing that.

And we've been like pushed into the cold water and we have to figure it out.

Like it's too late to turn around.

And then we're surprised ourselves by like, how much power we have, how much, you know, drive and energy we have to make things happen.

But we need that little push outside our comfort zone.

And it doesn't happen by convenience.

Like, just think about how Many people reinvented themselves after they've been fired from a job.

It's like they would have never quit, but because they were forced to do it, they suddenly had to take action because it's like you can no longer keep on doing things the way you've been doing them before, so you're forced to take action.

Or people after a breakup might sound like the worst thing that has ever happened to them, but what happens most of the time, at some point, you're going to look back and be like, that's the best thing that could have happened to me.

Because you grow from it.

Like, you reinvent yourself and you just activate this strength inside of you that's dormant, that's laying inside.

You always have it.

Like, you always have the capacity.

It's always inside of you, but it's not being activated if you don't need it.

Yeah.

Yes.

It's.

The name of this podcast is the Lonely Chapter.

It's what you've described there, essentially, is that that as you start to go on this journey of self development or stepping outside your comfort zone is discomfort.

And, yeah, you want to turn around.

You really want to just go back to that daily life that you know and you know what's going to happen at this time, and then it's going to be, then I go meet that person, and then I just chill for the evening.

I watch Netflix.

That's fine.

Yeah.

But, yeah, it's.

It's.

It's so interesting.

And as you step out of that comfort zone, your comfort zone grows to meet you as well.

Yeah.

It's not like you're eternally in that discomfort.

You step into that discomfort until it's comfortable.

Yeah.

And your comfort zone expands that little bit there.

And then you can take the next step.

Okay, what's the next step of discomfort?

And you grow.

And then you look back at that comfort zone now and how far it's come.

Yeah.

Just have that look behind you.

It's like, yeah, I've done all those things.

And, and this gradual increase, like, in the beginning, it seems like a mission impossible.

And then, like, slowly but surely, you stretch it by just like 1% or 2%.

And then gradually you look back and like, whoa, I've actually done that.

And it doesn't seem big in the moment because you're just taking, like, one more step.

But if you look back on, like, the broader picture, like, whoa, I've really come a long way.

And I've also definitely noticed that the more often you do it, it's like training a muscle at the gym.

It's like you just catch yourself coming back to, like, a similar stage, maybe in a whole different situation, but then you're like, oh, I've been in that awkward stage before where I was.

Just felt like, I'm overwhelmed.

I don't know what to do.

And then you just kind of ground yourself back into that feeling of, like, it's just a phase.

Like, life is dynamic.

It won't stay like that forever.

And then it's still not pleasant in the moment, but it feels like less overwhelming to know that eventually you're gonna get out.

Like, it's okay that sometimes you don't know the path yet.

But this is quote from Rumi saying, like the path, it will reveal itself as you walk the path.

And that's been one of the.

At least, like, for my.

My 2025 last year, it's been one of the most guiding principles that I think humans just crave this certainty.

And we always want to know the next step.

And then we'll be put in our destination at Google Maps in, like, a thousand kilometers.

We want to know each and every single turn along the way.

Yeah, but if we drive a car in the dark, we only need to see the next 200 meters.

It's perfectly fine if we don't know, you know, the whole route ahead of us.

Like, just trust that eventually you're gonna get to the destination, and you'll figure out the next turn as you get there.

But you don't need to know step ten as you're just doing step number three.

And that's okay.

But that takes a fair share of life experience and stretching that comfort zone to get comfortable in this discomfort.

And then you get even to your next stage where you're too concerned that you're not stressed out about something that would have stressed you out a lot when you weren't at that stage yet.

It's like, come on, is this, like, a stressful situation?

And you find yourself just being so calm that you get concerned about your calmness, because suddenly that's out of your comfort zone now to, like, not.

Not stress about it.

So humans are.

Yeah, funny breed.

Yeah.

Absol.

How has Covid changed?

This is.

It's.

It's obviously changed how we work a lot.

We work online from home a lot.

So people aren't going to the offices as often.

They're not in those.

Even those banal conversations by the water cooler or whatever it is.

Yeah, yeah.

It's still human interaction that we're missing out On Yeah.

So how has that changed it and do we need to change anything back do you think?

I think it's not like a proper black and white.

I think we're circling back to what we said earlier.

It still comes back to intention.

There's different ways of working remotely.

So you can sit alone in your cave or in your basement at home and just have no human connection at all like throughout the whole day or week.

And then of course you become very lonely and isolated and human beings are social creatures by, by nature.

Like we actually do need that otherwise like we die from, from isolation.

But then also this whole flexibility with remote work actually allows us to choose our co workers.

Like you can just meet up with your friends for co working day.

Like I used to do a lot like vacations with friends where we go to like Spain or at friends like coming visit me in Bali and we just sit in a co working space together or sit at the kitchen table together.

And you actually consciously choose so you want to surround yourself with as long as we're both getting the work done.

And then you share a lunch break together, you share coffee break together.

And yeah, I think if the culture, company culture is set up intentionally for remote first company it can actually make you feel more connected because they proactively doing something to make their people feel connected and they don't just expect it to happen organically like in a normal office setting.

Sometimes people don't do enough for culture because they think like you know, coffee kitchen and a ping pong table is enough to create cultures.

Like it would just happen because people work together.

But then how often do people actually use the ping pong table and you know, how often do your coffee break times actually overlap?

Not all the time.

So yeah then it might just never happen.

But if you set that up intentionally have like weekly check ins weekly like happy hours where we talk about everything but work.

If you have like non work related slack channels for instance where people are free like to you know, share everything they they do in their lives like their pet, their hobby, their micro wins of the day that are non work related, it can actually boost the level of connection compared to just expecting it to happen.

Because also you then can connect with someone who might not be in your department or like not working on your floor because everyone's online, everyone's on the slack channel.

But not everyone necessarily crosses path like face to face or you would never know that Suzy from accounting is like also into whatever dirt bike riding because that conversation just wouldn't come up.

Everyone's working in their silos in their own little boxes and departments.

And the online world actually allows you to connect based on shared interest because it's bit more transparent but it comes back to, you know, what the company culture actually does to, to nurture that side.

And I think in a non work related context there's certainly a lot of like mental health issues and like, you know, like not so happy things coming out of COVID But I also do think that it actually could have also helped us, depending on how we're using it, to really deepening the connections with the people in their lives.

Because suddenly you don't just hang out because you go to the pub.

You have to make, you have to make a proactive effort to call someone and like check in how they're doing.

Or sometimes you were only allowed to see like one person.

So you have a lot of like one on one connections and not just like, well, while watching football in a pub together.

But we're not actually talking.

It's like oh, suddenly you go for a walk in nature or you do like very earthy, like very grounding things, not those big flashy, entertaining things that actually distract you from the connection.

It's like you're.

The only reason you're meeting up is to connect, like to have a conversation, to do something.

Yeah.

It's forced us to reintroduce that one on one time and that reconnection.

Yeah, yeah.

And like invite someone to your home because you cannot necessarily hang out in public places.

So it was very grounding in the sense of taking away like the flashiness and you know, this like extravagant, luxurious life, like going to fancy restaurants or exciting travels.

It's like really like coming back to default settings like walk in nature, a cup of coffee at home, baking bread, you know, like.

Well, I asked that question the other day.

I was speaking to a friend about all those people who were baking bread in Covid.

How many of them still are?

Yeah, I suppose off the back of that is yes, Covid reintroduced those things for us.

But I wonder how many people are actually continuing to do those and how many have sort of fallen back into the status quo of life.

Do you have a number for it?

I'd be curious to know.

No, I don't know how we find.

It, but shout out to our listeners who's still baking bread in 2026 and.

You tell me about your personal mission then about.

Yeah.

Why connection is so important to you.

So you're sharing this message of humans need to connect.

Why is it that it's so important.

I've always been a people's person.

Honestly.

I just love humans.

I really, I really do.

And, yeah, I think the quality of connections in our lives is actually the number one indicator of how happy and fulfilled we are.

And that's the only thing that truly matters in life is, like, how much have you loved and how much have you been loved in your life?

And I think that's something that we almost get to forget in this completely overly digital, digitalized world.

You have like, eye contact, good conversations, meaningful connections, like 3am friends.

It's.

It's a term, 3am friends that you can call any time and you're.

You need someone to get you out of jail or like, you know, come pick you up in a hospital.

And that's what truly, truly matters.

So, yeah, I intentionally wrote my master thesis on that topic.

It's about fubbing.

That's phone snubbing.

When touchscreen make us lose touch was the cheesy tagline about hanging on our phones instead of actually having meaningful connections with each other and looking each other in the eye.

And then, no surprise, I figured that it's way more harmful to a human connection than we would expect.

It's the norm that we basically put a phone on the table at a dinner conversation, but every time it lights up, we're being distracted from the conversation we're having.

And it's almost like there's always like a third person with us in the room.

And you feel like you never really have someone's fullest attention, which then makes us less likely to open up, to trust someone, to.

To go deeper.

So that kind of frustrated me as, like, I. I do like a lot of things about this online world, but I don't want it to take away that human connection, which I think is the most precious thing there is.

So in the beginning, I started raising awareness and giving talks about fubbing, and I was like, stop the fob.

But then I'm like, it's not really in my nature to just talk about the problem without actually providing a solution.

I'm an enthusiast by nature.

I love to look on the bright side.

So I was just trying to figure out, like, what can I do to make real humans and real human connection more interesting than social media?

Like, what can I invent that gets people off their phones and almost forget they have a phone because they just get so excited about this whole flashy human thing right in front of them?

So, yeah, I thought everyone enjoys a good conversation, but not everyone has the right questions.

Or is like a good conversationalist.

Like, some people don't like small talk.

Other people, like, feel nervous or stuck or don't come up with the right words.

So I'm like, maybe you just have to create some, some sparky, like, sparking conversation starters to get people out of the shell and to get excited about having a great conversation by just igniting the spark and giving them a little, like, starting support to get the conversation going.

So, yeah, that's how I came up with the idea of inventing Iconnect, which is a digital detox game that is a set of 180 colorful questions to get people off their phones and reconnect with each other.

And not just a game, but actually creating events with it around the world that connect people from offline dinners to speed dating events, to even use it, like for family, Family dinners, road trips, anything where people get together and yeah, just connect them in a meaningful way.

Because even if you just meet a stranger for five minutes, but the second you know their favorite ice cream flavor, it's instantly going to make you feel so much more connected than knowing their job.

They're like, where they don't have a spark in their eyes.

I think that's an indicator of, like, how connected you are.

Like, people are scared to have those conversations because you go in and you know they're going to ask what your job is.

And you're like, I'm having the same conversation I had with that person over there.

I'm asking them the same questions because I can't think of anything else on the spot.

Yeah.

And that's draining.

Yeah.

Is.

It's like, that's why people avoid networking events and community events.

Because, like, I can't be bothered having another small talk.

A conversation.

Like, and depending on what phase you're in, honestly, like, sometimes it's like, please don't ask me about my visa.

That's like something that is like, I'm not doing anything illegal.

But it was more like, oh, it's like already consuming so much brain capacity for me to figure that out.

Like, please, let's not talk about this when I'm just here to mingle and chat.

Like, if a person asks a wrong question or a question that clearly, like, drains your energy instead of giving you more energy.

Like, you can be such a vibe killer.

So Iconnect is.

Is this an.

Is it through like an app or something?

Or is it a.

It's a box.

Cards.

Yeah.

So it's a physical card game.

Yeah.

Nice.

Like, different colors.

We have like six different colors and they all have like a WI fi bar on the back of the car.

So the higher the WI fi bar, the deeper is the level of the question and the stronger is the connection.

So you sort them by level, start easing and you roll the dice.

Yeah, it's like there's many ways to play it.

I did create like an instruction card to give it a bit of a gamified character that you roll the dice and then the number on the dice defines the connection level.

But honestly, in the end, it's just about getting people to have a chat, to talk with each other.

Digital small talk.

So as long as you play the cards like there's.

There's no way to win or lose, let's put it that way.

Yeah, I think it's a really important thing to do and it looks great.

Have a proper look at it and find, find out where I can get them.

But iconic game.com iconnectgame.com cool.

Well, I'll link that below and make sure anyone listening now wants to scroll down.

But yeah, I've spoken to people on this podcast who I spoke to a guy very early on in the podcast called Chris who was doing a similar thing and he, he was working on more family connections and close friends, getting them to go to events where they would sit down one on one and it be led by him or someone else.

Yeah.

To have conversations around a certain topic and to ask questions because how often do we.

Some.

Some families are closer than others.

Yeah.

Some families don't know their parents stories or their grand stories.

So just to sit down with that person and ask them what life was like for them growing up.

Yeah.

And to hear some of that, it just deepens that connection.

So I think, yeah, it's a really good idea.

One of the other things that you also work to bring to people is the TGIM mindset.

Can you explain that?

Yeah, TGIM is you slag for the corporate world.

So it's basically thank God it's Monday.

And yeah.

Just reinventing or hopefully reinventing or revolutionizing might be a better word for it.

The way that people show up to work instead of seeing it as like that training thing that's like I'm dragging myself to work.

It's about intentionally.

And I feel like honestly that's my word of the podcast.

Just intentionally.

It really comes back to intention.

Creating more.

Yeah, just more like uplifting and positive work environments where people get excited to go to work and actually feel like more seen and recognized.

Not just for what they do, but actually for who they are.

And then based on that, by feeling seen like more holistically and being seen as like human being, not just the human doing at work, they actually become more energetic, more radiant.

They show up as their best self because they don't feel like they have to hide any parts of themselves.

And therefore they have way more space and energy and capacity to be creative, to come up with like creative problem solutions, to have more energy, to be less likely to be burned out, they're more enthusiastic in sales calls.

Like, they're more connected to their team.

And therefore, of course, they're very, very much less likely to look for another job or work for another team.

So there's so many benefits that come out of, you know, looking after your people and making sure that they're holistically empowered to be their best selves at work and not just measured by performance, but actually understand that in the end it's like happy people who make happy profits and not in the sense of like toxic positivity or, you know, like fake happiness that people just run around with fake smiles and pretending they live in a fluffy furry unicorn wonderland.

That's, that's not the point.

But in like really creating ways to make people seen more fully and recognize for their individual strength and nurture that.

So then why would you leave a company that actually, you know, like, supports not just your job, but your overall life and you spend two thirds of your waking hours at your job?

Like, isn't that the best thing you can do to work for a company who genuinely cares and wants to see you win in life?

Like when you want to give your best and your all for that company to make sure, like, you're the best possible employee that they have.

Because yeah, connection and relationship, again, is a two way, two way street.

If they take care of you, you want to show up as the best version of yourself and support them and happily put in those extra hours.

Yeah.

Changing that culture of work.

Like you say, if you're there a lot of the time of your life you're working and so many people don't enjoy the work they do or they don't.

And it goes back to those conversations.

The most common question we ask when we meet someone new is what do you do?

And if it's not something you enjoy, that's a draining question in itself.

Yeah, absolutely.

So you're, yeah, you're just feeding that as well.

But I also wanted to add to that.

It's like not about, it's not always about you know, doing that one job that takes every box and you feel like, oh, it's so aligned with my passion and, and who I am.

But it's more about how you're being treated at work.

You know, are you being appreciated?

Are you being, you know, like, are you celebrated for your wins?

Are you being praise, like there's so much more and eventually the job that you're doing becomes secondary.

No, accounting might still not be the most exciting thing in the world, but if you have like cool erg groups where you feel like, oh, we're connecting on like like minded interests or you know, like sub communities within your company, it's like it just becomes a side effect.

You're still getting your job done and like hopefully you're getting it, you're doing it well.

But then it becomes less about the actual job and more about the culture and the environment you're doing it in.

Yeah, yeah.

Are they making it fun?

Are they making it different?

Are they making it social and enjoyable for you to be there?

Essentially?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Tell me about the three core pillars that you use.

Yeah.

So when you're bringing so holistic well being to these teams or workplaces, what are the three core pillars?

Yeah, so it's basically like an equation for holistic happiness and life.

So one is about living fuller, that it's about intentionally designing your life based on like different areas and really finding out like what ignites your spark, what fulfills you.

And then second one basically covers the whole first part of our conversation is connecting deeper.

Because again like connections and quality relationships in our lives are such an important indicator performance and our overall happiness in life and how, you know, can we create, can, can we connect better?

How can we connect on a deeper level with ourselves and with the people around us?

Of course.

And then the third pillar is be happier.

So I do generally believe and know that we have the whole toolkit inside of us and sometimes it's just about tweaking a few things or shifting a few like mindsets where we're standing in our own way to realize that potential that we have inside of us, to see things from a more like positive perspective or you know, see challenges as opportunities or basically just change the way we look at things and then things basically change, if that makes sense.

So these are like the three core pillars to like more holistic fulfillment in that sense.

I feel like happiness is always associated with like everything has to go well and everything has to go, has to be great.

But it's more like the journey to get There and the, like, the intrinsic fulfillment, like, there can still be things happening in your life that don't make you happy, but you can still feel fulfilled in that sense.

Like, for instance, grief when you lose someone.

Like, there's always a flip side to it of feeling a sense of either belonging or togetherness or like, that share grief makes you feel more connected to the people around you or strengthens, like, the family bonds and stuff.

So.

Yeah.

And then it's the.

It's a difficult question to answer, isn't it?

Like, what.

What is happiness?

And I was speaking to Dakota Meyer, who's a Medal of Honor recipient in the US Last week, and he was saying that we've mistaken happiness for an emotion when it's a choice.

Yeah.

Ooh, that's the one.

Yeah.

He.

He said, whatever's happening, obviously there's going to be times that stuff is sad.

But yeah, you also have that choice in a lot of situations.

And you mentioned mindset there as well.

Yeah.

So I think a lot of it is how we.

The story we tell ourselves in our mind is.

Yeah.

So much more important than what's actually happening big time.

Yeah.

If you can look at what's happening logically and try and work out exactly what's causing you.

It's like with anger, we say, that person made me angry.

It's like, yeah.

Did they.

Or did your perception of their actions make you angry?

Yeah, exactly.

It's a really interesting, like, just take that extra step back and go.

Yeah.

The words we use and the way we think about things is really interesting.

Absolutely.

And even, like, anger is like, of course, it's not like a happy emotion, that sense, but it's an energizing emotion.

Like how often one most.

You know, it's like when we're angry, it's like we get so much strength when, like, we run faster or like, like occasionally go to boxing classes and you just, like, you feel more empowered to let something out if you sit.

Not just to use it in a violent way.

That's not what I mean.

But, like, it's.

It's energizing in that sense.

Like, you're furious, but then you.

You feel energized.

And if you repurpose that energy to something that's good, you know, like put that energy in a business or like after a breakup, it's like you're hitting the gym and you work out hard because you're feeling all that anger.

And then eventually, you know, it's like you.

You're changing your body, you're Feeling more confident then that anger is, like, used in a way that it's serving you.

But road rage serves no purpose.

Like, hating on strangers on the street is, like, no one's benefiting from that.

And in the end, like, I think negativity is like, a gift that nobody wants.

It just comes back to you.

Like, you're trying to give it away, but, like, nobody wants it.

And in the end, you stuck with it and you feel actually worse about yourself.

Yeah.

And not to say you should suppress that, but, like, step out and, like, zoom out of the emotion and try to figure out if there's not, like, a better way you could use that energy.

I'm big on, like, energy management, and I just don't like the idea of, like, it's the most precious currency we have, and, like, let it go to waste.

If there's something you could potentially do about it in a way that still feels authentic to yourself, like, don't suppress it.

That's the worst thing you could do.

But looking at anger, I think it's something that we're taught to avoid, or it's a bad feeling to have.

It's a really useful thing because a.

It's telling you that something might be wrong, someone might have done something.

So you can sort of investigate that and work out is it useful.

And, like, you say it gives you that energy.

So, yeah, it's how you channel that afterwards.

And I think a lot of people think that anger is beating someone up on the spot or whatever it is.

Yeah.

It's like, well, maybe that's one way, but, yeah, you can channel it way better.

Yeah.

So it's.

It's all about what happens after the moment.

Yeah.

Or sometimes it can also help you to understand what you actually want.

Like, if you get jealous and that makes you angry, it's like, oh, apparently I really care about this person.

And it's just a reminder to act on your anger.

And it's like, I don't know, beat someone up who's hitting on the girl that you like or guy that you like, but more like, oh, maybe zoom out and figure out, like, why is that triggering me?

Like, what.

You know, where can I change the narrative that kind of like, domino.

Domino blocks, and it's like, where do I have to put up that domino stone in.

In a chain to, like, reverse that effect?

Like, why is that triggering me?

And once you find it, change the narrative and then you change, like, the whole trajectory.

Is that the word trajectory?

Yeah.

Complicated word of the.

Of the process.

Yeah.

Just Touch on traveling.

So you've spoken about being in a new city quite a lot, and obviously you've done quite a lot of traveling yourself.

For someone maybe listening who hasn't traveled that much or just goes on a summer holiday every now and then and sits on a beach, what are the benefits that you found personally from traveling?

I think, yeah, one of the things definitely is what I said it before on a podcast, but you really, truly get to know yourself because places and change and faces, they constantly changing around you.

So you have no constant.

Like, there's no stability around you.

So in the end, you basically left with building that stability inside of you to make sure that you built this beautiful in a garden that's your home that you can always come back to, even, you know, if the landscape around you changes.

I think that's the view is the most beautiful and the craziest thing that sometimes, you know, you have to travel all the way to the other end of the world just to find yourself and say, whoa.

It really took me, like, all these plane flights to just come home to myself.

And then finally, I've had a lot of friends who then moved back to their hometowns.

Like, all right, of course I've seen it all headed off.

Now I'm gravitating back towards where I left off.

But then it's also the people you meet.

Like, I think that's.

That's the beauty.

You get exposed to so many different cultures, like, different food, different, like, traditions of, like, how people are doing life.

New holidays, like, lifted in global melting pots from Amsterdam, Sydney, Bali is like, I basically feel like I celebrated every holiday on the moon.

Chinese New Year, Mexican Independence Day, Swedish Midsummer.

I don't know.

Like, you just, you know, have so many international friends.

I was like, oh, Canadian Thanksgiving.

I like anything.

You just find a reason to celebrate.

And yeah, I think number three is that community mindset about, like, the power of, like, really, you know, building those little communities and actually realizing that building in your life or traveling around the world.

Like, you.

You gravitate towards similar patterns.

Like, you find, like, similar archetypes of people in every world.

Every world.

Like, you build, like, similar routines of having, like, that one coffee place that you always go to.

Or, like, you.

You just build, like, new little morning or evening routines based on the environments you live in.

Plus, like, also the fact that you just have friends for a lifetime, that's major, major perk of traveling a lot.

Like, you're gonna spend.

You're gonna save, like, a lifetime of hotel costs.

Because I have like places like friends all over the world that you, you know, can call home.

And then of course, also if you live like an attractive part of the world and people are gonna come and visit you, and that really rapidly strengthens the bond because that's what I wanted to say.

Your friends become your family.

So when you're far away from home, like, it really is like a super glueful connection.

Yeah.

To celebrate Christmas with your friends or, you know, important milestones that you would normally celebrate with your families, like, your, your friends just become so much more important.

So, yeah, so many perks of going out and exploring the world.

And also that was it.

That was the last thing I wanted to say is like realizing how much is nature and how much is nurture.

Like, why some of the things you, you've been doing all of your life because everyone around you was doing it.

But once you travel and you just expand your horizon and you're like, oh, but do I actually enjoy doing it or is it just because, you know, everyone around me is doing it?

It's like, I don't know, if you grow up in a, in a vegan town and no one is eating any dairy products, you think you might not like that.

But then you go out into the world and it's like, oh, actually like people in Nepal ate meat and I really like this meat.

Or I know even for different values, like, you know, like coming from a western world, money and status and, you know, your job title always seemed to matter so much.

Because I come from like a more like, yeah, academic and materialistic, not to say upbringing.

But it's just a German culture.

We're efficient.

And then the first time I lived abroad was in Mexico.

And in the beginning it's like I didn't understand how people could generally be happy selling tacos like on the side of the street and like, not make a fortune and like, you know, just, just make enough to sustain, like support our families and stuff.

I'm like, surely you can't be happy because you don't make a lot of money.

I was like, oh, but maybe, you know, that's not the one thing, the only indicator for happiness, how much money you make.

And like, that's something that just clicked.

I'm like, oh, so you can be happy without all that money?

Yes.

Like, that was definitely just.

Yeah, yeah.

A lot of lessons to be learned.

Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you recently, you spoke about your write up at university and sort of phones and touch friends and being out of touch.

You recently went Full circle.

Didn't you, or I say recently, maybe last year you went back to your old university and you gave a lecture on what you'd sort of spoken about.

What was that like for you?

Very, very wholesome moment.

Honestly, I think most importantly, because I genuinely love to inspire people to like live their life in authentic and unique ways.

I've done like a mix of workshops like Digital Detox, but then also blending it with the bucket list workshop and yeah, just basically being the lecturer that I wish I had when I was at uni, that it's okay to live an unconventional lifestyle, that it's not just this one blueprint and success path to happiness or like path to success, but you can really define success on your own terms.

And yeah, it was just very, very like validating and wholesome to feel like that.

That's been acknowledged by like a major state university to have that as a guest lecturer and inspiring speaker to teach something to the students that is not like the classic, you know, work for one of the top five consulting firm companies.

So yeah, it's just very reassuring that it's perfectly fine to live a life true to yourself and yeah, just use that to inspire others to, to find what, what's their unique spark.

There's again, like.

Doesn't mean everyone has to travel or like move away from the country they're born in.

But if that's something that makes you curious, if that's like, you know, this silent whisper inside of you and at one point just becomes louder and louder and it turns into a raw.

And you just cannot ignore that.

It's like act on it, like, don't suppress it just because no one around you is doing that.

It's like sometimes you need that little weirdo alien from the other side of the world telling you that it's okay to live a life that others do not understand.

And it doesn't mean you failed, it's just that you chose a non conventional way.

But it's nothing like right or wrong about it as long as you feel like that's very me, you know, like you still, you know, like have food on the table and a roof over your head.

Yeah, I think it's great.

I think, yeah, I've taken a lot away from the conversation that that word intention has been a running theme throughout it.

But yeah, it was a drinking game.

We'd be drunk by now.

I drink every time.

Say intention.

Yeah, the, the importance of it throughout all of the stuff that you do.

And yeah, everything you step into, whether it's Online, in real life, the importance of connection.

It's been really interesting.

I've learned so much.

So the way that I finish my interviews is I ask you to leave a question for the listener.

So if the listener now was to go away and start their own conversation with someone else, whether that's a family member, friend, stranger.

I suppose with your game you've got plenty of options for this, but what question would you ask them?

Or would you have them ask?

All right, I do have an answer for that.

And of course, who am I to inventor conversation sparking game and not use one of those questions?

So the answer to the question that is the question I have is, if you had.

If you had a law that everyone in the world needed to follow, what would it be?

So you're not answering that, but the next guest in your podcast gonna answer that?

Yeah.

So they can go away and ask it.

Sometimes I do go back and answer some of them as episodes.

So maybe you'll hear me answer it in.

In the future.

But I have to have a think about it.

If I had to say something off the spot.

Yeah.

I'm actually curious.

I'd say they'd have to.

It'd be something to do with mindset.

Something like we've spoken about today.

Yeah.

Something.

They have to have a more positive outlook than negative.

So if you split it down the middle 50%, they have to be in the one side more or something like that.

I don't know.

Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, definitely something mindset.

It's a good idea.

Yeah.

Or everyone has to get out into nature once a week.

Ooh, reset.

Do a nature reset.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think there's a lot of different.

Different answers.

It says a lot about you and what need value.

I think that's why I love this question so much now.

It's like basically creating a world where people more like you.

So I think I probably say something about, like, compliment a stranger, like say nice thing to a stranger once a day, like be kinder.

Something like that.

Or follow your dreams.

You know, if everyone was forced by law to go for their dreams, I mean, surely we probably won't have anyone working on a conveyor belt like maintenance jobs.

But overall, I think that would be very interesting to see how the world would look like if people actually acted on what they really wanted to do and followed us back instead of giving up on that or being afraid of failure because they're forced to do it.

Yeah, absolutely.

Ninny, thank you so much for joining me today.

Thank you for having me.

I've really enjoyed it.

If people want to keep up to date with what you're doing, the messages that you're trying to spread, where can they find you?

Yeah, I would say find me on LinkedIn.

It's Mimi Fritz.

That's your best shot.

And then my homepage is the Work Happiness Project dot com.

I'm sure you can put that in the show notes as well.

Yeah.

Or email me.

Always happy to hear if whatever I shared today resonated with you on some level.

So, yeah, just go out there, create ripples of positivity and you just never know whose life you're going to touch.

Absolutely awesome.

Yeah, I'll link it all below so anyone listening can just scroll down.

But from me to the listener, if you have enjoyed this episode, please do share it with someone you think.

Find some value from it if you haven't already.

Wherever you're listening or watching, please do follow or subscribe to the show as it really helps the show grow.

And on Instagram, you can tag us in the conversation at Lonely Chapter Podcast.

But lastly, from me, thank you for listening, stay curious and I will see you in the next one.