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Well, I am Glenn the Geek from Ocala, Florida.

And I'm Karen Chattan from Gardnerville, Nevada.

And you are listening to Horses in the Morning on the Horse radio network for March 11th, episode 3644.

Good Morning, Horse World.

When your start times on Saturday and your finish times on Sunday, and it doesn't get much better than best conditioned.

And completing the challenge is the challenge.

You're an endurance rider.

That's right.

It is endurance day here on Horses in the Morning.

We have Karen back with us.

Karen, what do you have planned for today's show?

Well, today we are going to be talking about packing stuff in your saddle pack.

Then we will be interviewing both Lisa Snyder, who is the AERC hall of Fame person for 2024, and then we will be interviewing Gunner Frank, who is the owner and writer of the hall of Fame horse named Trinity.

And there's only one each year at the convention, one hall of Fame horse and one hall of Fame person.

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

Well, that's great.

And you just did get back from the AERC convention in Reno, right?

Yes, Reno Sparks at the Nugget.

And it appeared to have a really great turnout.

The vendors, everybody was busy.

There was a great big tax sale, which was kind of cool.

I brought a bunch of stuff.

Did you sell a bunch of stuff?

I sold a bunch of stuff and then I ordered a bunch of stuff.

Did you come home with less money or more money?

More money.

Oh, good.

Yay.

Which means you didn't hit the casino either.

No, I didn't have time.

You know.

Well, it's been.

It's so fun when you go and we haven't had the convention in Reno for a couple of years and you just see everybody, you know, from all across the different regions.

And I.

My voice ran out as you know how that goes.

Talking a lot for hours and hours and hours at a time.

But it's a lot of fun seeing everybody.

We had a relationship.

Everybody knows Everybody knows Karen.

So when she goes to the convention, everybody knows Karen.

It's like when I go to a podcasting convention, they all descend.

My voice is gone after three days.

It's that way for Karen because she just knows everything because she's written with everybody I know.

Yeah.

You can't walk around you end up talking with everybody.

I mean, even just take a restroom break.

And everybody's just, you know, talk, talk, talk.

It's.

It's a lot of fun.

Everybody gets to catch up and see each other.

You talk to some listeners, I'm assuming, at some point.

I did.

Yeah.

That's always fun, too.

Yeah, that's great.

So.

So was there any big highlights from the convention that stand out for you?

No, just.

I think it was nice.

Everybody, I think, was having a good time.

We were all happy to be there and see each other.

We.

They did pay tribute at the national banquet banquet Saturday night.

We had two icons of the sport recently passed away, Kathy Arnold and Becky Hart.

And did you know Kathy and Becky?

Yes, yes, because they've.

They've been around literally for ever and ever.

And so it's, It's.

It's sad to see them go, which is unfortunate.

So.

But they did a good job with the tribute, which was nice.

And then they did the awards hall of Fame person, like I mentioned earlier, was Lisa Snyder.

Hall of Fame horse was Trinity, owned by Gunner Frank.

And the Partners award was given to Dave Rape and White Cloud.

What's the Partners Award?

And we've interviewed a few of them over the years.

It's.

They give the award for people that exemplify a partnership with their horse.

One of the things I recently purchased was a Spot X tracker.

A couple weeks ago, I took Jovi out for a ride.

And now I'm kind of wishing I had the old lazy Joby back, the one before he got fit and conditioned and did all those rides last year.

And so he was feeling a little bit too good.

And about three and a half miles out, I don't know what happened.

He zigged and I zagged or.

Or whether he went stage ride.

And I just didn't go with it, just stayed.

And.

Then I decided, you know, I'm looking at my stirrup, maybe I should let go before I have no choice.

So I let go.

And he decided he was going to take the trail back, but he was.

And it was a nice warm day.

Decided it was better to go back by himself than have to carry you.

He thought, yeah, is fine.

I bet I can get back faster than I've ever gone before.

And he did.

I followed his tracks all the way back.

He.

I.

There were no trot tracks.

He was not trotting.

No.

But, yeah, I was fine.

I got up running right after him.

I was like, God darn it, I shouldn't have let go of the reins.

But I didn't get.

Want to get a rope burn, you know.

So fortunately he was nice enough.

Along the way he left me a water bottle and then another mile later a nut bar.

So, you know, we made.

To make sure you were fed and watered on the way.

That's right, he did.

So then I called my husband who went out on the quad and there was Jovi at the trailhead waiting, waiting, waiting for me going, where's my mom?

Why isn't she here?

And so he called Jovi and Jovi came right over to him.

And then he pony me out and pony Jovi out.

And my.

One of the neighbors had seen the horse go running by and went out on their side by side and picked me up so I didn't have to run the whole three and a half miles back.

But I got, I got right back on him, turned around and went out and he was fine.

Nothing happened as far as.

Seems like he just ducked out.

Yeah, he just ducked out.

I don't know.

He's feeling extra good, a little extra frisky.

So I decided he's probably wondering why you fell off.

What's wrong with you.

He was.

And see, that's the thing.

I figured it out.

I had not come off a horse for 23 years.

Really?

Time I had come off the riding.

You do?

Yes.

All the writing and all the different horses.

Wow, that's amazing when you think about it.

It's been 23 years since I came off a horse like that, so.

So is the Spot X, is that like a Garmin inreach?

Yes, it is.

And it's got the little keyboard on it.

And the reason I got it is.

Because it's a satellite thing.

Yes, off of the satellite thing.

So it's independent of the cell service.

Because where you ride, there ain't none.

Exactly.

There's a lot of places where there isn't any, especially on rides.

And when I drive and travel and my husband can use it on his bike rides where he goes regularly, there is no cell service.

And it's kind of neat because I can send and receive text mails, emails, or use the SOS feature if I need it.

Hopefully I don't.

I bet you he's falling off his bike more than you falling off a horse.

Possibly, yes.

I don't know.

Yeah, I'm not.

Not in a big habit of doing that.

Well, I'm glad you're okay.

I'm getting older and you should have.

Had one of those 10 years ago, to be honest.

I know it and need to get.

Them as a sponsor now, because I never heard of Spot X, I've only ever heard of the Garmin innovation, okay.

Because the Spot is what they use on Tevis as the trackers, the Spot brand.

So we'll see.

Hopefully.

I'm going to a ride this Saturday, weather permitting, because we do have some big storms coming with snow and rain, and so I'm going to be able to test it out on an actual ride.

There we go.

Which is cool.

I can send updates to people in my contact list so they can click on the link and then follow me on the map.

So that that ties us right into your endurance tip of the day, which is what you carry along on the horse and the saddle pack and on the horse.

And I know now we're going to add to that list the SpotX tracker.

So we are.

So what?

Exactly.

So what we're talking about today is the things that when you're on a ride that you keep with you.

And I know this is something that, you know, new riders always have to probably carry too, or not enough.

But you have done this for a million miles, so what do you carry?

Right?

So the essentials for the horse would be stuff like electrolytes, a hoof pick, a spare hoof boot, a first aid kit, which also I'll mention when I get to the rider section because it can double for both a sponge or a scoop when cooling this weekend because it's going to probably be snowing and raining.

I would put a rump rug, also my horse at the start.

Navigation and communications.

Most of us carry our cell phones now, so it's good idea to have a waterproof case, an extra little battery in case you're out there on a long, long day and your battery goes down on your cell phone, which some of them do.

Having that little extra battery that you can plug in is great.

And then you can also use that to recharge your gps or like I'm gonna have a whistle is a handy thing to have so you can call for help or in some cases, if you see a rider ahead of you and they take a wrong turn, you can get their attention.

So those things are handy.

Now onto the things for the rider.

You want to have some toilet paper, water, electrolyte drinks and snacks for you, sunscreen and make sure they're in a.

Place when your horse is jogging without you that they fall out.

So something to eat on the way?

Yes, yes.

Like, gee, thanks, Jovi.

Yeah, that was, yeah, the thoughtful of him.

You want to have some Sunscreen, lip balm, insect repellent.

Depending on where you're riding, I probably won't need it this weekend.

Where it's going to be snowing?

No, you'll probably be okay.

But a lot of the year you do.

It's handy to have some lightweight rain gear or a windbreaker, a multi tool or a knife, and again, a small first aid kit with stuff like antiseptic band aids, gauze or vet wrap and a bandana and some extra string or clips like carabiner clips, stuff you can attach things to or do some repairs if something happens to break.

Now, I want to talk to you about packing, but what kind of packs do you use?

I've been using the trugrit packs for a few years.

And are they front or back?

They have both.

I like mine on the front so it's easy to access all the stuff that's in them.

Gotcha.

Okay.

And then I carry my water bottles on the back.

Do you have a certain way you pack everything specifically?

Yes, I do.

So my packing tips are balance the weight evenly on each side of your saddle pack.

That way if your horse decides to go back to the trailhead without you, it doesn't cause the saddle to list over to one side.

Oh, that's true.

I didn't think about that.

Yeah.

So you want it balanced.

You want to pack items tightly to prevent things from bouncing.

Keep things that you frequently use and easy to reach spots.

You can use waterproof bags or baggies for sensitive items like your, you know, your toilet paper or your first aid kit.

So if you are riding in the rain and snow that those things stay protected.

Test your saddle pack on practice rides and make sure you don't overload it.

Do you use water bottles or do you use a bladder?

What do you use?

Yes, I use water bottles.

And on my saddle, on the back, I actually have the water bottle holders that.

The same kind they use on a bicycle that are mounted.

Okay.

And then.

And then that way they don't bounce.

The only thing is the horse, it can shake them out every so often or.

Yeah, because those things aren't super tight.

I mean, that even happens when you're riding your bike and hit a bump, so.

Right, right.

But it's very handy because they don't bounce.

You know, I like to keep things from bouncing because it can bother you and can bother your horse.

How do you have it mounted?

Do you have it mounted to the saddle somehow?

Do you have them screwed in?

What do you do?

Yes, because my saddle's carbon Fiber.

Okay, so you have a mountain mounted.

Yeah, exactly.

Yes.

And then on the front, it's attached with straps.

And then I buy the rubber bungee by.

You can buy it by the yard or like in a pack of three yards or six yards almost anywhere.

Walmart, Amazon.

And it.

It's like the size of a shoelace, but it's elastic.

Okay.

Like bungee.

And I use that on.

I put that on the saddle and then put it around the pack, and that keeps it from bouncing at all, which is really nice.

So it's won't bounce even if you take stuff out.

Like, if you fill it up with, you know, some snacks or other things that you use up during the ride, the bungee still keeps the pack snug, even with less stuff in it, so it's not bouncing and bothering you or the horse.

Okay, that's terrific.

All right, very good.

And you know something that, that you have below those packs that helps keep you in the saddle is the stirrups.

And we're going to be talking to Kristen at the Distance Depot about stirrups today, also a little bit about all the tariffs going on and what's happening with the prices of all the horse stuff that we're going to be talking about throughout the year.

Kristen, what is the most popular stirrup on the trail today?

Well, we have quite a few popular stirrups.

I would say some of the nicest stirrups that we offer are the cloud stirrups.

They're made in Canada with top grain leather.

They have the nice wide footbed with a super cushy cushion where your foot goes.

It's one of the widest footbeds on the market because of the size of this stirrup and the materials used.

The high grade leather, it also has a high grade aluminum, which contains titanium.

So it gives the stirrups more strength than just your regular aluminum stirrup.

But because of that, like I say, these stirrups are heavy.

The stirrups without a cage weigh about three and a half pounds.

And then when you get that cage on there, it adds about another pound, so they're about four and a half pounds.

I gotta tell you, the ones with the cage look like something out of the medieval times that the knights would wear.

Right.

Or something.

I know they do a little.

A little like Mad Max.

Yeah, exactly.

But these, you know, the fei riders have to have a cage.

Even if they have a heel, they're required to ride with a cage.

And if you're a lightweight rider, these cloud stirrups are Perfect because the extra weight, you know, can sometimes help these lightweight riders make their weight category.

So that being said, there's that stirrup.

And then unfortunately, the easy care stirrups that we all knew and loved for many, many years have been discontinued.

So we do have some options from a company called Shenandoah.

And we have the aluminum trail stirrup and also a plastic stirrup, which on these stirrups we can change out the top bars.

Now, those cloud stirrups do come in different top top bar sizes as well, which means whatever size stirrup leather, if you ride in an English saddle and you need like one and a half inch top bar, they're offered in that width.

So you can also order it.

You know, if you're stirrup, biothane stirrup leather essentially is two, two and a half inches or you have a western fender, you're going to need a 3 inch top bar typically.

So we can change out those top bars on the all of the brands except for that cloud stirrup, you have to order that particular stirrup in the size you need.

The others, we change out the top bar and you can change it out down the line.

So if you change stirrups, saddles, pardon me, you can change out your top bar to match whatever stirrup leather you need at that point.

And then the Shenandoah has cages available as well.

Yes.

Yep.

So we can put on a cage for you.

You can order the cages yourself and put them on.

If you're handy or know someone handy that has a rivet gun, they're simply put on with rivets and held on there permanently.

So offer some protection.

And you can add the cages in your fun colors.

We have reflect cages too.

So if you ride at night or worried about being in the dark and need some reflection, we offer the reflect material on the cage, too.

And of course, we have stirrup leathers and traditional English stirrups.

We do offer the shock absorbing top bar.

So on the stirrup, the Shenandoah and the tough one, plastic stirrups, you can opt to have us put on that shock absorbing top bar that used to come on the easy care cage.

So that's nice for your knees and your back over many miles.

So as price points go, the Shenandoah are more affordable.

Oh, yes.

Much more affordable.

Yeah.

The cloud stirrups run in the $300 range.

200, $340 essentially without cages and 340 with the cages.

When you buy the Shenandoahs, they run anywhere from, you know, $77 to $45.

So, yeah.

Much more affordable in the plastic and aluminum.

Have you been happy with the durability of the Shenandoahs?

Yes, we have had good feedback and they seem quite strong.

We haven't had any complaints as far as hearing about any breaking or anything like that.

So.

Yeah.

And they also have a wider footbed, not quite as the cloud, but still give you that support for your foot over those many miles with a comfy footbed.

Well, that's terrific.

And if you just go to the Distance Depot.com and search for stirrups, you're going to find the stirrup page.

We'll put a link to it in our show notes as well.

I want to talk to you about something.

Obviously with all the tariffs coming in and everything, I assume we're not expecting the prices to go down because a lot of this stuff comes from a country other than ours.

Yeah, unfortunately, we would love to buy made in the USA products and do whenever possible.

So many of these products are made in China and the cloud strips come from Canada.

So it's not great either right now.

So your encouragement would be buy before the prices go up.

If you're, if you're going to look, I would say if you're looking at anything that you need to buy this year, if you're planning on buying something this year, buy it now.

It's not going to get cheaper.

No, I don't see that happening.

Yeah.

Especially if it's a larger purchase like a saddle or something that's made outside the country, not made in the United States.

Get that now.

Don't wait.

Because again, I don't think it's getting cheaper.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah.

And you know, this is the first time I've encouraged people to do that in the history of this show.

But I think it's the first time we've been in this situation.

So for sure.

And you can do that at the distance depot.com Our first guest this morning is Lisa Snyder.

She has nearly 17,000 miles and a 91% completion rate.

She has completed the Teviston.

That's pretty good.

It is.

It absolutely is.

Yes.

She has served as vice president of AERC and been on the AERC board for like 10 years of service.

She served on numerous committees and she was just inducted to the AARC hall of Fame for 2024.

Good morning, Lisa.

We want to say congratulations to you on being Award the 2024 AERC hall of Fame person.

Yay.

Thank you so much.

I was so shocked and very, very honored that's terrific.

So thank you so much for agreeing to talk to us this morning.

And we want to talk.

We'll get started talking about your family history in the sport.

Your family has a long history with.

I know, at least three generations.

So tell us about that.

So my parents first got us riding by going to rental stables when I was a little kid.

Probably started riding at age 4 or 5 and we had a rental stable nearby and we would go there every weekend and I loved it.

I would just beg them to let me stay so I could sleep in the stalls with the horses.

I was a real horse crazy kid.

So that unfortunately came to an end when the Reynolds stable got mowed down to put in a drive in theater.

And I cried, I was so upset.

But we found other places to ride and soon got my first horse.

We were at a show barn, so that's pretty much all we knew.

But it was really expensive to go to horse shows and I thought, you know, why are we spending all this money?

And I get to ride for like five minutes, sometimes less.

And I told my parents I want to go ride for a lot longer.

So we move stables and got hooked up with a trail riding group and the owner of the stable did the Tevis and my parents got completely hooked.

We got a couple more horses and started doing a bunch of trail riding.

So one summer we went from through the Malibu mountains, from Topanga all the way to PCH Pacific coast highway where there was an ice cream store and they had a hitching post out back next to a creek.

And we had some friends bring the horses hay and water and we went inside and had our ice cream and then rode back and finished in the moonlight and I was hooked.

That was a phenomenal experience that I'll never forget.

So we probably did 40 miles that day.

So I thought, if I can do that, I can do 50.

But my parents got first crack to the horses, so they started doing endurance rides and I was the crew.

And pretty soon I figured out it's a whole lot more fun to ride.

So I started saving up for my horse and I was babysitting and I had a paper route and I exercised people's horses for them and saved up a good amount of money and bought my first horse.

So my parents at this time now were into doing Tevis and so I was crewing all over the place.

And in those days you could crew wherever you could get to.

So I was also a runner.

So I would run in four or five miles from where I could park to the Trail to give them water.

So I'd pop up somewhere and give them water and run back out with an empty bucket and go on to the next spot.

So, you know, I, I really grew up crewing and I know what it takes to make a good crew and I appreciate a good crew.

And so I didn't really do 100 until my first probably was 1988.

I was in my 20s and that was my first 100 was Tevis.

So that's, that was really my big start in endurance.

Wow.

And I see your mother top 10, Tevis twice.

Your second place.

Okay, top 10.

And your father also has run the western states run and the world championship Riot and Thai.

So you come from quite a family of athletes.

Yeah, you know, my parents were tough competitors and my dad and I would go and work the trail, he called it.

We run portions of it and we really memorize that trail.

He knew every inch of it, so he completed three times.

And when you run it, you have a completely different perspective than when you ride it.

And I believe that really helps me as a rider because I understand the pacing aspect of it better.

So if anybody's gonna start riding and they want to do the longer distances, I encourage them to at least get out and, and do a 5K.

So you have an idea what the pacing is like.

And one of the biggest mistakes.

Yeah, one of the biggest mistakes people make is they go too fast too soon.

Well, if you train at an 8 minute mile pace as a runner and you go out and do your first mile at a five minute mile pace, it's going to get ugly fast.

So the, the running background really helped.

He was an ultra marathoner before that was a thing actually.

Yes, you're right.

Yeah.

So the very first runner at Tevis was a guy whose horse didn't vet in and he said, you know, I'm not going to just sit here all weekend, I'm going to go run.

So he ran the trail with the horses.

I didn't know that's how it started.

Yeah, yeah.

It took off after that and pretty soon it grew so big they had to separate it because the horses and the, the runners were just, it was too congested on the trail.

Now most of the riders I know would go, why would I run it when I have a horse?

So you know, that's true.

Karen, you have never run it, right?

No, no, I'll do a short ride in tie, but that's it.

But that still uses a horse, so.

Right, that's it.

And Lisa, your daughter also has ridden, correct?

Yeah.

My daughter Amy has about 2,500 endurance miles and she competed all throughout high school, which was hard because even in those days it's hard to miss a day of high school.

There's just so much homework and stuff that goes into it.

So we chose our races wisely and when she got to Arizona State, the first thing she did was establish an equestrian team.

And so the three of us would ride together.

It was a lot of fun and we had a lot of.

Made a lot of good memories in those days.

That was great.

Oh, that's so cool.

So what do you believe was the key to your success?

Like in, in regards to choosing an endurance horse?

One of the things Yvette early on told me was study confirmation so you can figure out if a horse is going to hold up to the rigors of endurance.

So I did that and I really paid attention to feet because the old saying goes, no feet, no horse.

And I made a bunch of mistakes early on and ended up selling some of the horses that I bought initially because they just weren't cut out for it.

Breeding isn't enough.

So we had two horses from the same breeder who were fantastic.

I went and got a third and she hated it.

She wanted to be a show horse, dink around in the show ring for five minutes and be done.

And so we really believe that the horse has to want to do it.

If they don't, you need to find them a good match, a better match.

So Lisa, give us some training tips that you swear by for a hundred mile ride.

Well, I kind of touched on one, and that is to, to race as you train.

You can't go out cantering and expect to canter 10 miles when you've only ever cantered a horse for maybe a mile.

It's not fair the horse and, and no good is going to come of it.

So pace as you train and get to know what the horse's comfort level is.

Most horses get comfortable doing longer trots as you do them in training and with carrying thrown in as the terrain and their level of fitness dictates.

And you also want to figure out how well the horse takes care of himself, how much management you have to do.

So a lot of times I would stop at a creek and just get off and wait there till the horse could kind of just settle down and drink.

And that's really important because then they figure out, you know, this crazy lady is going to keep riding me for God knows how long.

I better eat and drink and take care of myself.

Right, right.

Yeah.

Some horses need a little time to just chill out at the water, look around a little bit and relax, and then they drink really good.

So what was your toughest ride and why?

I think my first toughest was my toughest because it was my first hundred and my dad was supposed to take me through, and he got pulled at the first vet check, so I had to do everything myself.

And when you have another rider riding with you, there's not only the camaraderie between you, but also the horses.

So that was a little tough psychologically for me, especially riding in the dark.

And I encountered a bear on the trail that scared the heck out of me and the horse.

So while it was a good story to tell, it's not so fun racing down a trail in the dark, being chased by a bear.

So you think, was that your.

Was that your scariest animal encounter, that ride?

Which is ironic that it was one of your early ones.

Yes, it was.

It was, yeah.

Well, bear chasing you, that would be everybody's scariest animal encounter, I think.

Oh, my gosh, you're in the dark and you hear this massive crush crashing through the underbrush, and you think it's, you know, a Tyrannosaurus rex or whatever.

That sounds like something ginormous.

So we got out of there pretty quick.

It is amazing how when you're in the woods at night, a squirrel sounds like it might be a bear.

You know, it's like.

Oh, gosh, no kidding.

Well, let's sort of switch over here real quick to talking about some of the things you've seen during your tenure on the AERC board.

So what is one of the biggest changes you've seen over the years?

Well, there's two I'd like to point at, and the first one is we used to have as a completion criteria, sound at the walk with a pulse of 72, and that got changed to sound at the trot fit to continue with a pulse at 64 for the 50s.

That was huge.

People learned they had to pace better.

They couldn't just race in at the finish if their horse was tired and just wanting to get done because they had to recover.

So that was one.

And the other big one was the way the limited distance rides were looked at.

When I first started, they were considered training rides.

There was no placing, there was no best condition, and sometimes they got nothing except, like a certificate as a completion award.

So that really switched up when it became obvious that more riders could do the 25 to 35 mile distance than the longer distances.

And the other thing that became obvious was they're supporting the longer distances.

So we wanted to put things on an equal footing.

They became placed rides.

So being my last name starts with an S, I wouldn't be 40th if I came across the line and finished first.

And also there was the best condition up for grab.

So there was a bit of a change of focus of the first 10.

Instead of just saying, oh yeah, I raced in and got second place, it was more like, well, I got best condition.

That was the big deal.

Right.

And so what role change do you think has had the most impact?

Was it the post criteria and fit to continue?

It really was because it changed how people thought about pacing and they consider pacing much more.

And there was more of a focus on.

Gotcha.

And we did away with the respirations.

Even though we still call it PNRs, most rides anymore don't count respirations.

I remember rides when I started, they still did that.

And I remember my friend's horse getting held up because her respiration was just slightly over her horse's pulse, which was like 36.

And she got held up for that.

And now that's not a, you know, now that's been done away with long ago.

So I understand, you know how like you said, things have changed with people coming in racing and it's, you know, changed the sport for the better.

Just like with the on the limited distance, they had to, they have to come in now and their time doesn't stop and their placings don't occur until they meet the pulse criteria.

Exactly.

That was huge.

And a lot of vets would point out at the pre ride meeting, hey, guys, don't bother racing in because if your horse doesn't recover, somebody who comes in 10 minutes after you, who's able to recover because they pace better, they'll place ahead of you.

And that was a big wake up call.

Exactly.

And so what do you see as the biggest challenges facing our sport?

I think the loss of trails is the big one.

It's the old saying, use it or lose it.

And the mountain biking community has grown enormously and we have to be able to share the trails.

We have to have a horse presence.

Otherwise the equestrian aspect of the trails is going to go by the wayside and that really scares me.

So we need more people to get out on the trails, to do trail work, to keep them open and make it known that, you know, this is an equestrian area.

Exactly.

And it gets harder and harder with dealing with all the Government agencies and getting permits and a place to have the base camp in a lot of areas is becoming a challenge.

With all the growth, you know, especially in California, the whole state has really lost a lot of rides over the last, you know, decade, decade and a half.

You know, we only have two hundreds left in the whole state now.

And one of the biggies, especially I'm in the Los Angeles area, but we have a massive amount of development going on.

So like you said, you're right on the base camp areas.

You know, finding a place to park 100 rigs with trail access has really become difficult.

So we've lost a lot of rides.

And so now there's a lot of enthusiasm behind working on the trails because people realize those trail hours that we log are counted and looked at by the officials, not only like in Congress, but also the Forest Service, the Park Service, all of them.

So that's a big deal, you know.

And I think even on.

I think on the east coast, it's probably worse than it is on the west coast right now because we're just.

We're losing, you know, land like crazy.

There's two bills in Florida legislature right now that would give the state control of zoning and take it away from counties and local municipalities.

So.

And they would.

Which would eliminate all the farm preservation groups in the country, including here in Ocala.

So.

And would.

Would change the density of housing and everything and would allow those farm preservation lands to be sold off.

I.

Yeah, that.

None of that helps us horse people.

Right?

That's so right.

And it's a little bit scary, I think about.

I think it's a lot scary.

Yeah.

Future generations having the trail access to train.

Well, Lisa, thank you so much for joining us.

What, are you going to plan on keeping on riding, or are you in the hall of fame now?

You're going to retire and put your feet up?

Oh, heck no.

I'm going to ride till I.

Till I can't.

And my.

My big goal right now is to get decade team on my two youngest horses.

And we have Karen to thank for that award.

There were 41 horses and riders who got Dec.18 just this past year that were recognized at the ERC convention.

So thank you, Karen.

I love that award.

Yeah.

Oh, thank you.

Well, Lisa, thank you so much for joining us.

We really appreciate it.

And congratulations again.

Not too many people get to be in a hall of fame of any kind, so congratulations and well done.

Thank you so much.

It was truly an honor.

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And up next is our guest Gunner Frank, whose horse trinity is the 2024 AERC hall of Fame horse.

Good morning, Gunner.

We just want to say a great big congratulations to you and your horse Trinity for being honored with the AARC hall of Fame for 2024.

Thank you very much.

I want to go over real quick a little bit of your accomplishments.

You have 13 ride seasons so far.

Trinity has completed 10 one day hundreds.

He has 87 first place finishes, 85 best conditions 7,255 miles.

He's been in Arabian Horse association champion, regional champions, heavyweight national champions.

He's 19 years old.

So tell us about Trinity.

How did you get him and what qualities did he possess that made you decide to choose him?

What happened was I was on the race with my other horse, his name is Nobody.

And from there, hold on, the vet check, a lady named Michelle saw me take care of my horse and she selected me and she said, I'm gonna give you a horse.

Me and my wife, we received Trinity as a gift.

And when we got Trinity, he was in pretty beaten up shape.

You know, he been with horses that been biting and kicking him.

So he had sores all over.

He had a little pot belly, little sway back or very skinny back.

When we got him, he showed everything good and I immediately start training him and he never opened a gate before.

So that was a process and condition.

And took him to a race and he took fifth place the first race and he didn't show any signs of tiredness or anything.

And from there he just been better and better.

He is a smart horse.

He protect himself.

So if get tired, he will slow down and protect himself.

Fantastic horse on the trail.

He sometimes little stubborn doing things, but we never had any problems.

So what are some of his strongest strengths?

Like is he a really good hill horse?

Yeah, he know where the competition is and sometimes he take advantage of that.

For example, if could be in three or four place, he know how many horses is ahead of him and we could be far back, you know.

And if he decide that he gonna win, he will pass him even if I try to slow him down.

So when he decided to go, he goes.

It's actually amazing how he figured that out.

And you also know where the finish line is often.

Okay.

Our last guest, we had asked her about choosing a horse and one of the first things she mentioned was about looking for good feet.

You know what they say?

No.

You know, no foot, no horse.

So what do you have to say about Trinity's feet and his confirmation and that sort of thing?

We spend when we're looking at a horse, including Trinity, we bring them to a professional veterinarian to do X rays and check their legs and feet.

We did that with Trinity even he was given to us.

The veterinarian passed him.

His feet is not heavy.

Not very good little pancake looking feet, but the angles, everything was good.

So with my wife, she's a expert trimmer.

She do better than most professional and she take care of his lower heels and things.

So we spend more money sometimes pre veterinarian check on the horses than we spend on the horse.

Congratulations again.

It's quite an achievement to have a horse make it to the hall of fame in the first place.

You must be proud.

I'm very proud.

It should be.

Yeah, yeah.

Extremely nice to.

I mean that's a highest award you could get, I think.

Well, Karen, thanks again for putting the show together today.

If you want to listen to past episodes of the endurance episode, the endurance show has its own feed on your podcast player where it's just the endurance episodes doesn't include all the other horses in the morning shows, which are a lot of them.

So you can search for endurance rider on your podcast feed and it'll bring up all the past episodes and we've done 10 years worth, so there's a lot in there, so definitely go check that out.

Karen, where can they follow you?

You can follow me, Karen Chattan.com Very good, Karen.

Chattan.com of course, Karen is here on the second Tuesday of every month.

She'll be back again in April and a ride season will be really, really getting underway all across the country at that point.

And I know some of you have been snowed in and are just now getting back on your horses.

I did want to mention that there is a virtual, a horse radio network, virtual Tevis team.

We have had one in the last couple of years and it's done pretty well, actually.

You can search for HRN virtual Tevis on Facebook, it'll come up.

So if you decide you want to join us on the team, you can.

And you just have to get your 100 miles in.

You can do it kind of any which way.

They're kind of loose about that.

If you ride a mile a day and could do it over 100 days, that's great.

You don't have to do this all at one shot.

And we did pretty well.

Although Stacy Westfall's team kills everybody because she has like 100 members.

But, and I don't think we're getting close to Stacy Westfall's team, but we can try.

So definitely check that out.

And thank you to our sponsors, the Distance Depot and Chewy dot com.

Karen, we'll see you again next month.

Thank you.

Have a good ride, everybody.