Welcome to the Wisconsin Legends podcast. I am Mike

Huberty from American Ghost Walks, and I'm here with Jeff

Finnop of Badger Land Legends. And today, we're gonna be talking

about Wisconsin and UFOs. Now,

Mike, we are both ghost guys. What are we doing talking about UFOs. I

was talking to somebody from California last week. We're talking about, like I

just mentioned, kind of what I do for a living, which is talk about ghost

stories. And they said, oh, Wisconsin. I

bet that's great for paranormal. Indeed. Yeah. You know what? It is great

for paranormal. I mean, we have Plenty of ghost stories. We have

serial killers. We have Native American myths and

how those kind of co mingled with the European Settler mythology

and stuff, he brought something new. And oh, yeah. And we have a bunch of

UFO stuff too, but I did not realize how much UFO

stuff we had. I mean, that person when they said, oh, that sounds like a

good place for paranormal. You have no idea. It might be the best place for

Oh, it might be, and I'm excited to see what Yen covered. I mean, just

starting out with UFOs, you think that it starts in 1947

with Kenneth Arnold and the flying saucers.

Mhmm. But it actually starts 50 years before

that. This is something that not a lot of people know. Like, I didn't know

about this until a couple years ago when my sister, Alison

Jornland, wrote an article for the americangostwalks.com

website on the Milwaukee airship sightings

of 18 97. So this is going back before

flying saucers. This is going back before airplanes. Yeah. Flying

almost like dirigibles or airships from my understanding. Right. So here's

from our article. On the night of April 11, 18, 97 at around

8 PM, Milwaukee had a visitation. Witnesses all over the city saw

something strange in the sky, A mysterious object passed that night.

They called it the airship because the terms flying saucer and UFO wouldn't

be coined for another 50 years. 1 downtown police officer reported seeing the

airship while standing on Broadway. He described it as looking like

4 bright Stars put together. It flashed the colors of white, red, and

green. Although a local astronomer argued the airship must have only been a

star, this policeman stood by a story. He claimed that the craft

dipped and bobbed wildly several times before it sped off toward the

northwest and disappeared from view. Unusual behavior for

a star. Many other witnesses concurred that its rate of

speed was unmistakable for the movement of ordinary stars. A central police

lieutenant, however, claimed the airship was the product Hoaxers flying a

kite from the North Point Lighthouse. He contended the airship was nothing

more than a kite with a light attached strung out on an incredible 2

miles of string. Even a Milwaukee sentinel reporter questioned that

explanation though. The airship was seen all over the city.

How could it have just been a kite? We'd have to have the longest string

in the world. Or several perpetrators flying kites, but it

seems less likely almost. Right. Now this next section is

from kevinabarnes.com And this is a a Milwaukee

blogger. And funny enough, he wrote this particular thing after he

was inspired by going on the Milwaukee ghost walk. And he

said, oh, you know, I was just thinking about these Milwaukee airship sightings, and he

went and did a blog article. There's more research on it. Great. It wasn't just

in Milwaukee. The Milwaukee portion of the 18/97

airship mystery was immediately preceded by a sighting in Chicago on

Friday, April 9, 18 97. An initial crowd gathered on

Oakley Street at Chicago's north side and watched what was described by

various witnesses as a red light, a manifestation in an

airship. Eventually, thousands of people saw the airship in Chicago.

And later that evening, sightings were also reported in Evanston, Illinois,

Lake Mills, Wisconsin, and finally, Wausau At 10 PM,

creating the impression that a single mystery object was traveling north and

west. Milwaukee's airship sightings began the next day, Saturday,

April 10th, And we're very well documented at the time with coverage in

the Milwaukee Journal, the Milwaukee Sentinel, the Daily News, and the evening Milwaukee

Evening, Wisconsin. One of the most complete newspaper accounts of the Milwaukee

sighting comes from the April 13, 18, 97,

Burlington, Iowa Hawkeye, which is my favorite newspaper.

It was first seen in Northern Horizon and about the only persons who were up

at the time and were not seeing things double, as in they were drunk, were

a few newspaper men, police officers, and a guard at the House of Correction.

All of these are willing to make oath. They saw an airship come from the

north a little before the break of daylight, then it disappeared again, reversing

itself and fading from view in the north. Last night, the stranger made its appearance

again in the heavens around 9 o'clock. It came from the northeast from out over

the Lake Michigan. There was no possibility of a mistake this time. Thousands of

people saw it, and in a few minutes, they were following the machine as it

floated over the city. It traveled towards the southwest until it reached a point

directly over the city hall where it stopped for a quarter of an hour. Then

the excitement in the downtown districts became intense. It was reported that attempts

were being made to actually anchor the machine.

Now here's something interesting about city hall at that point. In 18/97,

the Milwaukee City Hall was the tallest

inhabited building in the world. Mhmm. Just the fact that it

came above city hall and then that's where they're trying to, like, hook it or

latch onto it. He continues. A mister mayor, a traveling

man, had a field glass range on the machine and said he distinctly saw

4 men in it. So had a telescope. Spotting scope or something like

that. And he saw 4 men in the machine. Station keeper Harry

Moore of the central police station saw it distinctly And was one of the few

who at the same time did not lose his head. He says the

machine or whatever it was, anchored or stopped directly over the city

hall. The light which I saw was suspended from a large dark oval

shaped object, the shadow of which could be distinctly seen. In

fact, it Could be seen so plainly that I could discern the wheels

working. I did not see anyone in it, but anyone who claims that the thing

I saw floating over city hall is a star,

Simply don't know what he's talking about. I saw it too distinctly to be

fooled. It was, I should judge, about a 1000 feet over the

city After hovering for 15 minutes, it went back and disappeared in the

northeast. So that happens in Milwaukee. And it's

funny, The Milwaukee Sentinel, April 10, 18, 97. So that

day guess what the headline is? Airship

coming this way. So the newspaper was kinda setting that up.

From the sentinel, airship coming this way. Chicago sends

word, but Milwaukeeans watch the heavens in vain. A report was

received from Chicago last night that an airship had passed over that city traveling

in the direction of Milwaukee. Dispatches were also received from towns and

cities in Illinois in chronological order showing that the course of the

mysterious aerial voyager, unless changed, would pass directly

over the city. So the day that all of the

people saw something, April 10, 18, 97

was also the day that in the morning They had an announcement in the newspaper

that an airship was coming this way. So they almost primed the

witnesses to look to the skies. Just a bit. Yeah. Just a

bit. Don't think that Milwaukee was the only place or Wausau or

anything because the 1st UFO in Madison skies is

also 18/97. This comes from a, a Capital Times

article from the 19 eighties, September 17, 1986. There was

an article called Frank Custer's Madison, talking about the old days.

1st UFO spotted in Madison skies in 18/97.

Madisonians tried to laugh it off When an unidentified flying object

presumed to be an airship flew over the city back in the horse and buggy

days. In a time when airships were in the experimental stage, None

of them around here. And the airplane was seen in the northeast end of town

on the night of April 11th and again on April 14th. Chicago in

9th, Milwaukee in 10th and now Madison on 11th.

The report of a cigar shaped object with a propeller at the rear

And its lower portion composed of white metal shaped like a ship's keel

caught the fancy of Madisonian. Overnight, Madison residents who had

read about it in the newspaper became sky watchers. The state journal on

April 12, 18, 97 carried a story in which unnamed

townsmen told of their seeing an object like an airship. It was

probably a star, said another. Brilliant lights were reported,

especially by those who used opera glasses. The thing wavered up

and down just as the boats boats of the aerial rapid transport line might be

expected to do, the newspaper story said. A 5th

ward man said the object was shaped like a catamaran. Another man

said he read the name star tickler on the object

side. A lady who was brought up with the Indians and has very

sharp hearing Said she caught a glimpse of a face laughing as it would

split and heard a voice say, has the sucker fishing began down there

yet? Okay. So obviously, they

were making a joke out of it by April by April 12, 18 97.

But interestingly enough, this article goes on to say that there

was a 2nd UFO phenomenon occurring in 1910 that was

witnessed by a number of family members living in the North Livingston and North Greeley

streets vicinity of Madison. The people, according to a state journal

story, saw a, quote, a ship approaching from the north

headed south across Lake Mendota. They described it as slowing

down, descending, hovering as if seeking a place in the land, then flying

off to the southwest. The witness says, missus

Nils Stark, 218 North Livingston Street, widow of a local

realtor, missus Mary Matany, 208 North Brearley,

a clerk at the Keeley, Neckerman, and Kessenich store, and

members of the families of Joe Ifflemeth, 210 North

Livingston, a house painter. So they took that one a lot more

seriously in 1910 than they did in 18/97.

So that just leads me to kinda believe that the 18/97 airships,

while I love the story of the dirigibles

or whatever flying over the Midwest in 18/97.

The fact that they were already making fun of it 2 days later. I remember

finding a story saying that the the resident

sea serpent in Lake Mendota, Bojo Yes. Was upset by the

sightings because it was tracking all the attention away from him. Yeah. They

were already kind of tongue in cheek Right. With the newspaper accounts.

I just think that's interesting because When we look at a lot of these stories

today, we look back like, okay. Well, they've been seeing these UFOs since

18/97. And, you know, we'd look at Sea serpent

articles, we look at airship articles and things from the late

19th century. Mhmm. And they're not written really

tongue in cheek. However, they might have been written to sell papers.

And if you listen to our HoDang episode, we go into the snake

editor and some of the other trickster ish characters

that swap stories Right. Between different publications talking

about unidentified animals or what we would

characterized as cryptids or tall tales. And they

certainly were not afraid of tall tales in the late 19th century in the

newspaper. It it definitely sold papers. Yes. The airships come in this

way warning the people of Milwaukee before the night where everybody saw

1. And you can almost see the A little kid on the corner

saying extra extra read about the airship coming in Hawken

Newspapers. Right. Probably charging extra. Right. I'd buy it. If somebody

said the UFOs are coming, you have my nickel. Yeah. And, again,

this is long before there was any X Files or Any

Kenneth Arnold? You know, this is 50 years before as you said. It is quite

perplexing. And this was, what, 5 years before Kitty

Hawk? Yeah. At least. So the manned

aerial phenomenon, period, whether explained or not,

was Not a common thing in a lexicon. Right. Probably the closest

thing it'd be to the flying would be a hot air balloon. Yeah. Some kind

of air balloon. Yeah. And that'd be about it. So that's

kind of the start of Wisconsin's history of UFOs,

at least the modern era, starts in 18/97

With the invasion of the airships into Milwaukee,

Madison, and even in a Wausau. So that's right. If you're from

Wausau, the aliens were even interested in you.

The next thing that happened in 18/97 though that I think is worth

talking about is it's the year that the Yerkes

Observatory in Southeastern Wisconsin in Walworth County

is open. Yeah. I think it's Williams Bay just outside of Lake Geneva, just

on the other side of Geneva Lake from Lake Geneva. And so

Yerkes played a significant role in the study of astronomy in the late

19th and early 20th centuries. It was established in 1897

and housed the largest refracting telescope in the world at the time.

The observatory's impressive telescope known as the Great Yerkes

Fraktur had a 40 inch aperture and was designed and built

by Alvin Clark and Sons. This telescope provided astronomers with a

powerful tool to observe and study celestial objects. The observatory

itself was renowned for its magnificent grounds and architecture, the renaissance

esque design of the buildings, as well as the beautifully landscaped surroundings,

And it gives it a castle like appearance. Yeah. It's still a sight to see

today. And, the grounds were designed by the famous landscape architect,

Frederick Law Olmstead, who is known for his work on none other than

Central Park in New York City. One of the notable achievements at

Yerkes was the discovery of the Atmosphere of Saturn's moon Titan.

Astronomer Gerard Kuiper, who what do you think they named

after him, the Kuiper Belt? Made which is not like, Hoberbelt is in

space, doesn't use to, like, keep up your pants. Made this groundbreaking

discovery while working at Yerkes. This finding would later be confirmed and further

explored by space missions such as Voyager 1 and the Cassini Huygens

spacecraft. In addition to its scientific contributions, the Yerkes Observatory

was Hub for advancements in astrophotography, the observatory's

telescopes and equipment enable astronomers to capture detailed images of

nebulas and different types of stars.

Even Albert Einstein visited Yerkes Observatory.

And in the Lake Geneva Museum, they have the newspaper articles and pictures

From when Einstein visited Yerkes. Now Einstein is great.

However, there's also somebody who used to work at the Yerkes

Observatory That I think we're gonna find is much more

important in the history of UFO. It might be the father

of ufology. That's right. So this is from

the book, The Close Encounters Man, and that's

written by our friend, Mark O'Connell. Mark

O'Connell is a writer from my hometown, Big Bend, Wisconsin. Yeah.

And he wrote a couple episodes of Star Trek The Next Generation and then

Deep Space Nine. Really great science fiction writer and screenwriter.

And he's also always been fascinated with UFOs, was a member of

MUFON in Wisconsin for a long time. And then he

wrote the biography of j Allen Hynek called The Close

Encounters Man. And so in 1932,

J. Allen Hynek, who would eventually become the head

of Project Blue Book Mhmm. Which was the air

force investigation into the UFO phenomena. He was professor of

astronomy at Northwestern University. I was gonna say he's a Chicago guy that

moved up to Wisconsin. So Lake Geneva, not far Nope. From

Chicago. And so this is Too close if you ask me. Right. But

this is before he even earned his PhD. So in 1932,

you know, 20 years before the air force taps him to start going in

and investigating UFOs. He moves to the Yerkes Observatory

to earn his PhD, and he got married. Did he get married at

the Observatory? I do not believe so. I do not believe so. But this is

from Mark O'Connell's book, The Close Encounters Man. It was noted

by Yerkes staff that Hynek, in his 1st weeks at the observatory,

was a very industrious worker to the point that he was quickly driving himself

to exhaustion. The doctor said he was run down due to

overwork and improper eating. A concerned staffer wrote to doctor

Otto Struve, Who had recently replaced the retired Frost's

director. It seems he ate very infrequently and worked half or more the

night. But overwork and malnutrition We're not the only dangers

faced by a young grad student like Hynek. As beautiful as it was,

the brown brick Romanesque observatory building With its riotous

terracotta decorations commemorating the zodiac and ancient

astronomical mythology, provided the housing for the underpaid students.

The roof leaked and the room became cold, a dark tomb on winter

weekends when the electric power and heat were turned off in the building. So

all the power was turned off except to the telescope. This is reported by the

University of Chicago historian, Donald Osterbroek. Water

dripped in during summer thunderstorms and snow drifted in during the winter.

But one man's, quote, cold dark tomb, quote, is another

man's fortress of solitude And as Hynek worked in his measurements of

stellar spectra as the, quote, lonely Yerkes

Observatory on the tranquil shores of Lake Geneva, Wisconsin.

He found solace in his isolation. You go to this observatory with just

a few other people there, and you feel like you might be a monk looking

at the heavens, learning the secrets of the universe, Said Hynek's colleague,

doctor Mark Roediger. You can see how that

would lead to spiritual feelings in the right personality. Night

after night, Under the 90 foot main dome, Hynek peered

into the firmament, studying the ancient light given off by distant

yellow white dwarf stars and forgetting that Anything else ever existed

or ever would. Science and mysticism came together every night

in the eyepiece of his telescope. Time vanished. Dimensions

contracted. The whole thing had sort of a mystical

quality, Hynek confessed later in life. One shouldn't say that in

connection with science, I guess. But I was so utterly

absorbed in the life of the observatory that I had hardly heard of Hitler.

Remember this is the 19 thirties we're talking. Mhmm. Hitler comes to power in 1933.

Okay. So actually he did not get married at the Observatory. He gets married to

Martha Doon Alexander in Fayetteville, Arkansas on Christmas Eve of

1932. So he heads down to the saw to tie the

knot. Although very little information about this romance exists

today, it does prove that Hynek's existence wasn't entirely monastic.

Hynek admitted to being a reader of Rudolf

Steiner, a theosophist. And we talk

about theosophy extensively in the Frank Lloyd Wright episode because

theosophy was a major influence on on Wright. So that's

the late 19th century, early part of 20th century, and that's

when Rudolf Steiner is doing his writing. And Heinrich read that as

a boy as well. And so in in Mark O'Connell's book, he says it's not

difficult to imagine that during his nights of mystical seclusion at

Yerkes, Hynek continued to read Steiner and wondered about how

he might access the quote unquote super

sensible realm. So Rudolf Steiner, a

lot of his stuff was about education. Waldorf

schools Yep. Come from, like Steiner's philosophy,

And the idea of the super sensible realm. What what does

that mean? From dictionary.com. Beyond

the reach of the senses, above the natural powers of external

perception, supersensual, applied either to that which is

physical, But of such a nature as not to be perceptible by any normal

sense, or to that which is spiritual and so not an object

of any possible sense. So you can see

the super sensible realm, that's where UFOs exist.

We perceive them. It's something that you you can't understand them because We

don't know who's in them or what's happening. Spirits are like this,

but so are atoms, so are viri, You know, the

plural of virus. Mhmm. So are germs, so are genes.

They're there, but they're beyond the reach of perception. And so

that It was just a little waxing poetic, I think, that Mark did

about Yeah. So I I never knew that about Hynek that he was

esoterically inclined and actually, Red Steiner.

He probably didn't wanna talk about it too much when he was the professor astronomy

at Northwestern. Also, funny enough, another

connection to the paranormal, from J. Allen Hynek is

that doctor Lloyd Auerbach, Parapsychologist who

wrote a whole bunch of classic parapsychology books

was a consultant on the one of my favorite TV shows from 19 eighties

called, shadow chasers. One of the things that inspired

him to go into the paranormal growing up in Chicago

is that he was one of doctor Hynek's students Mhmm. At

Northwestern. Okay. And he's like, if there's somebody I respect so

much, who was brilliant at astronomy, And

straight astronomy, straight science could also have this

interest in something more. Someone this

brilliant also has a thirst for this kind of knowledge. Then it's okay

for him. 1932, the father of ufology is

in Wisconsin at Yerkes Observatory looking at the sky at night.

That's so cool. Now we're gonna talk about the godmother

of ufology. Exactly. And, you know, this is another person that I

had hardly you know, just like I didn't know about the 18/97 Milwaukee airships.

I didn't know that, Coral and Jim Lorenson existed Until, like, a

couple months ago. I knew about them a few years ago. I

know about the legacy they led, but I don't know about anything

personally. So I'm excited see what you uncovered. We're gonna get in that. So now

we're in an of 1934. So it's 2 years after Hynek

comes to Yerkes. Cora Lorenzen has this

experience in 1934 that leads her down this path. She was a

prominent figure in the field of ufology. She, along with her husband, Jim,

Cofounded the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization,

APRO, in 1952. APRO was one of the first

civilian organizations dedicated the scientific study of UFOs.

And in her book, The Great Flying Saucer Hoax, The UFO

Facts and Their Interpretations, this is how she describes her original story.

The beginning of the mystery of UFOs was, for me at

least, on a sunny summer day in Barron, Wisconsin in 1934.

The details of that sighting are still fresh in my mind. And although I was

only 9 years old at the time, I was very much impressed by what I

saw. Barron in 1934 was a small town of about

1500 population. Airliners were rarely, if ever seen. It

would be safe to say weather balloons were never seen, And indeed, even

a small monoplane was an event in that area. The

thing was in the west southwest when I first noticed it. I called

it to the attention of my 2 playmates, and one said she thought it was

a parachute. Its color was a glowing white. The object was bought

as large as a dime held at arm's length. There were no ropes or lines

suspended from it, and therefore, no parachutist. It could

best be described as resembling an open umbrella without the ribs or

spurs. It made no sound as it wobbled in a northwest direction

across the clear, cloudless sky. It wasn't going fast, rather was

poking along at a leisurely rate of speed With a rather strange motion.

That which has been described in recent reports as

undulating. Almost like a jellyfish. Yeah. Right. The way she

makes it described, like a sky jelly. Sky jellyfish. We watched the

object for perhaps 20 seconds, then it appeared to go over the horizon

Or perhaps it came to rest north of Barren in the vicinity of a body

of water referred to locally as the upper dam. I went home and told

my father who made inquiries and the matter was dropped. No one had

seen the object except we 3 children. And there was no

news of a parachutist landing north of the dam. That

1934 UFO sighting in Barron. And she was 9 years old

at the time. Right. We also talked about Barron, Wisconsin because that's

where Kids saw the in the Haunchyville

episode, we discussed, like, the the marching

and and Little People. Yeah. Was that that was near Barron, I believe. Near Barron

Wisconsin. This is in Northwoods of Wisconsin. And like Mike said in the

article, 1934, It was a rarity and probably

a spectacle to even see just a monoplane. Right. Flying

overhead. Now we got 2 weird things Happened in Barron, Wisconsin. I

gotta see what's happening there. This is before

UFOs kinda take over the consciousness.

Mhmm. And really, it's in

1947 where we have another

craze. I mean, I I've read about this original sighting

a 1000 times as a kid Mhmm. And I didn't realize that it

wasn't just in Mount Rainier, Washington,

where people were seeing u f o's in that same month

of June to July of 1947. The big one,

Kenneth Arnold. His UFO sighting is one of the most famous and influential

in history. It occurs June 24, 1947. Kenneth

Arnold, an experienced pilot and businessman, is flying his private plane near

Mount Rainier in Washington state. Arnold reported seeing a

formation of 9 unidentified objects Flying in a crescent like

shape at incredible speeds. He described the objects as saucer

like or disk like and estimated their speed to be over 1200 miles

per hour, much faster than any known aircraft at the time.

Arnold's description of the movements like a saucer skipping on

water Led to the popularization of the term flying saucer

to describe unidentified flying objects. His sighting

Is considered the beginning of the flying saucer era. Mhmm.

Now this happens June 24, 1947.

What happens 2 weeks later. Roswell. Right.

Roswell happens just in July of 1947. But

what else is happening? This makes the news. This

hits Kenneth Arnold sees the flying saucers.

Who else is seeing flying saucers? From Ted Blucher,

report on the UFO wave of 1947. UFO wave.

So now we have these it's interesting that It doesn't seem like just one

place has a sighting. It seems like once a sighting happens somewhere,

sightings start happening everywhere. Mhmm. Ted Bletcher is

a New York singer and actor who was fascinated with UFOs and was a founding

member of the UFO group, Civilian Saucer Intelligence.

He wrote up all these different reports that came in in June July of

1947. Case 277, July 4th, Madison,

Wisconsin. Mister and missus William Ecker of 2071

Winnebago Street reported they had watched far from you. That's

right by, where I live, so I'm gonna have to keep my eyes out. They

had watched a strangely maneuvering object over Madison at 9:30

PM CST. The object was first seen by missus Ecker who

called her husband out to see it. According to the witnesses, the object

appeared to be flying in circles over Madison's downtown section a mile

south of their home. It would fly in a circle for about 5 minutes, reported

the Ekers, then shoot off a mile to the south, tear back again, stand still

for half a minute, then start circling again. The Eckers said the

object described as round and bright repeated this maneuver 3 times

before it finally disappeared to the south in a straight course going very

fast. Case 373, July 5th, Janesville,

Wisconsin. A disk like object performing similar

maneuvers to those observed the previous night in Madison was reported by 4 people in

Janesville. Mister and missus Al Siewert and mister and missus

Howard Roth told radio station WCLO At 11:35

PM Central Standard Time, they had seen a disc shaped object flying

northwest just like a plate on edge. The object was then

said to have circled counterclockwise in a wide oval flight pattern at

terrific speed, stopping abruptly and then flying out of sight at great

speed. The object then came back into view, hovered momentarily for 2

minutes, and then resumed the same counterclockwise circling as before.

July 4th, Madison. July 5th, Janesville. Now case

12, 1947. About June

17th. So a couple weeks earlier. But also

before Kenneth Arnold at Mount Rainier. Madison, Wisconsin,

doctor EB McGillivray, Professor Emeritus of philosophy at

the University of Wisconsin had spent the evening playing cards at the

home of missus Mary North on Middleton Road. He

had hardly left the house quite late when he saw a bright

round object about 2 thirds the size of the full moon moving to the

sky from the southwest to northeast. Professor McGilvery

described the speed of the object as quite rapid, but not as fast as a

meteor. It left no trail of light as a meteor usually does And

did not appear to be fiery, but looked more like an illuminated

body. He called to missus North to come look at it, but by the time

she came out, the object had vanished in northeast. This

happens. There's a UFO sighting in Madison by a University of

Wisconsin professor a week before, Kenneth

Arnold, but also a week after, July 3, 1947.

Now this is from the w files classic website, which we've

used a dozen times here. Definitely. Three Madisonians

driving to Milwaukee were among the 1st in the state to see a UFO.

The flying saucer craze had only begun a month earlier and was still so new

that they hadn't even heard about it. The witnesses were Ted Boyle, a member of

the Madison Common Council, his mother, and Ruth Donard.

Boyle described the UFO as a bright silvery object high over the north

horizon. It was shinier than the dickens, he said. It was

oval shaped. We watched it for 2 or 3 minutes And then it disappeared all

of a sudden. It kept the oval shape and then it seemed to flatten out

into a circular shape like a platter and then it disappeared.

After arriving in Milwaukee, Boyle learned about the flying

saucer phenomena and reported the sighting.

So 1947, it's not only

Mount Rainier. It's not only Roswell. There's sightings in Wisconsin. And

this is 50 years before the Internet really took storm.

Right. So the dissemination of information was peer to

peer or newspaper readers telling other newspaper

readers Right. What they're reporting. So for this to

be reported as It is shows that

there's a larger phenomena at work, and it's not just a mass

hysteria because The information

just couldn't move that quickly from Mount Rainier to Madison or vice

versa. And it, you know, and it goes to the state. It goes to all

these different places. You know, Madison, Jamesville, Wartichert, the 3rd, the 4th,

the 5th. Mhmm. That's what I think is fascinating about these particular

things is that I I always remember reading about the Kenneth Arnold

sightings. Like, oh, that was the start of a UFO era. Like, oh, I didn't

realize Kenneth Arnold was just the beginning in that particular year. So that this is

another UFO wave.

Now few years later, people are fascinated with UFOs,

Mhmm. Including Coral and Jim Lorenson.

And so in 1952, they start APPRO,

That area phenomenon research organization. And they started

in Sturgeon Bay. From The Great UFO

Hoax book that Quarrel wrote, In November 1947, we moved to

Phoenix. And in 1949, we left for Los Angeles. UFO

sightings were not receiving the publicity they had in the previous 2 years, And except

for the occasional wire service story, things were pretty quiet.

In 1951, a Burbank acquaintance who was also very interested in

UFOs Suggested I attempt to organize a civilian

research group. I was considering it when we moved to Sturgeon Bay,

Wisconsin in August 1951. And in January

1952, after contacting other amateur astronomers who were interested in

the subject of UFOs, the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization came

into being. In July 1952, our 1st

mimeographed bulletin was mailed to 52 members. And in the

fall of 19 52, I started doing news correspondent work and

feature writing for the Green Bay Press Gazette. And consequently, I met

a lot of people who were great assistance to me in Tracking down early unpublished

sightings in Wisconsin. Here's an article about her from,

the Victoria, Texas Advocate Newspaper February

18, 1954. Private group evaluating flying

saucer reports, Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin. Did you ever see a flying

saucer? If so, Coral Linson of Sturgeon Bay would

like to hear about it, provided the object can't be explained away as a natural

phenomenon. The 28 year old housewife and mother heads the Aerial

Phenomena Research Organization, a nonprofit group that gathers, studies, and

evaluates data on flying saucers. Missus Lorenson abhors

crackpots and others who think that every light in the sky that doesn't come from

a heavenly body is a spaceship hurtling from Mars bent on destruction.

She and members of her far flung organization are intent upon discovering

what apparently inexplicable objects really see And why

there's been a rash of flying saucers. Reports of

saucer sightings are forwarded by members of April to the organization's main chapter here,

And chapters are spread around the country as far away as Australia. We

try, said missus Lorenzen, to fit any sighting into one of the following

categories before labeling it as a bona fide Aerial phenomena.

Unidentified balloons, conventional aircraft reflections, meteors,

or atmospheric phenomena. So she's the 1st

to bunker. So she's debunking

and classifying the sites. I'm trying to give some context to what people

are seeing, and this is from a 28 year old housewife in Sturgeon Bay,

Wisconsin. So that's quite the accomplishment. Yes. Now Jim does

her husband is working for the armed services. That's why they're traveling around so much.

Okay. And it sounds like she's also a freelance writer for the Press Gazette Right.

Green Bay. But she joins just so she can do

UFO research. And in fact, she even goes and joins this

organization which was probably there to look for Soviet

issues at the beginning of the space age. I suppose this is

post World War 2 Right. But on the build up to the

Cold War. Right. Remember the Soviets get the bomb, like, at the

very end of the forties, The Rosenbergs and stuff like that, they get the nuclear

secrets. And in the mid to late 19 fifties, you

have the Soviets launch Sputnik and things, and so the space

becomes the next battlefield after the Second World War.

The air force is looking for Civilian observers of the

sky. And this is from the Green Bay Press Gazette, January

21, 1953. Observation tower dedicated in

Sturgeon Bay ceremonies. Tuesday, major general Ralph j Olson,

state director of Civil Defense, Dedicated Sturgeon Bay's ground observer core

observation tower on the city hall here at 11:30 AM. At the same

time, 2 f 86 saber jets from Madison Airfield roared

over the city saluting the ground observation core here. Almost every

person in Sturgeon Bay heard the jet planes, but very few saw them, Which

highlighted the need for civilian observers on 24 hour watch for

complete air security. The Sturgeon Bay Air Defense Ground

Observer CORE has a 110 volunteer observers who keep an

average watch of 16 hours a day. Missus Coral

Lorentzen, Sturgeon Bay is supervisor of this unit, and Clifford

Willis is the chief observer. The city underwrote the $500

cost of erecting the sky watching post for this area, And numerous

establishments have furnished and equipped the tower. So they built her a

tower even. Right. So Coral, She becomes on staff

of the Green Bay Gazette so she can research and write about UFOs. And there's

a whole bunch of stories in the Green Bay Gazette in the 19 fifties just

on UFOs from different Conventions and and different sightings across the

country. And then she joins the ground

observer corps for civilian defense We have 16 hours a

day. They have people looking at the skies. And she's like, what better

way to see UFOs Then we have a

dedicated team where they have a report or something they see. She's

have an official purpose and then also Corals also like, well, while you

got your eyes on the sky, you can look for anomalous area

phenomena. Right. So this is why she's great because

she's a bulldog about it. She sees that thing when she's 9 years

old, and then 20 years later, she's like, you know what? I'm gonna Start an

organization, and then I'm gonna do all I can to to learn about it, and

then I'm gonna do all I can to see 1 another one myself. Mhmm. So

she's fascinating. Definitely. No. Eventually, the

Aerial Phenomena Research Organization, after being in Sturgeon

Bay For decades, in the late sixties, her and her husband moved out to

Tucson, Arizona. And by that point, their

organization changed a little bit. And so they were paying attention to all these West

Coast sightings and stuff in the desert in Arizona while they had

these observers in the Midwest. Mhmm. And

so like Illinois, Michigan,

Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, and they have this whole group of

people that felt that The Lorenzens were no longer paying

enough attention to them since they moved to Tucson. Mhmm. So they

form the Midwest Unidentified Flying Object

Network, which eventually becomes The

Mutual. So MUFON Yep. Comes from

April Mhmm. Which Lorenzens created, and so and and

MUFON's still going, and now it's a Full United States organization.

So went from Midwest to mutual UFO

network, and that's the the more national chapters and organization. Right.

It's funny because they felt that the Lorenzens who had they started the whole thing

and they were running it, but when they moved to Tucson, they just weren't paying

enough attention to the Midwest people anymore. So since they felt left out, we're

start to sting ourselves. Alright. And and really, when you look at

the Tucson newspapers when Cora Lorenzen dies, it's just

how, Like, she had even turned Tucson into

like a UFO center of research. So her

dedication, even in her obituary in the newspapers, Talked about how

she had kinda transformed the town into a place that was people were interested

in UFOs and keeping their eyes on the sky. And what we know from modern

day, whether it's Roswell or Area 51. We

got Art Bell just outside of Las Vegas and Pahrump Yeah.

Or the Phoenix lights. The desert is a place

of high strangeness and with clear desert skies. It's a great

place to observe this phenomenon. The Lorenzens were interesting

characters. Now part of me also says like, well, if he was working in the

armed services and they were so into this kind of

thing and she was So he's single-minded about it. Was she a

fed? Did she have a covert op? Was she, an agent of

sorts? Was she feeding us The Cold War kind of stuff. The Cold War

counterintelligence. You never know. But either way, I really admire

her. And the fact that Mufon started right

in Sturgeon Bay. Mhmm. The father of

ufology, he's in Wisconsin as he's in this renaissance

style building like a monk Studying the sky. We have the

godmother of eufology who starts classifying different

sightings and starts the 1st organization to take in everybody's reports

and collect Them together in one place. That starts in Wisconsin. Anyway,

that's really cool. What other great sightings happen in Wisconsin?

Well, I know which one you're getting to next, and it is my absolute

favorite from all of ufology, and it happens in Eagle

River, Wisconsin and Wisconsin's Northwoods. Tell us a little bit more

about the Simonton encounter. Right. So everything's

pretty serious so far, and you're like, wow. This is really great. And then

There's Joe Simonton. And so this is from the Chippewa

Herald Telegram, April 24, 1961.

Eagle River Plumber with good reputation tells a

flying saucer trades jug of water for 3 cosmic

cookies. This is from Associated Press. A plumber told

authorities Saturday he traded a jug of water for 3 cosmic cookies in a

silent bid of swapping with 3 men in a flying saucer.

Joe Simonton told the story to district attorney Calvin a

Burton of Vilas County. The saucer landed on his property shortly

before noon last Tuesday. It was a gleaming silver, brighter

than chrome machine and appeared to hover over the ground instead of

landing. It was about 12 feet from top to bottom and about 30 feet in

diameter. Out of the hatch that opened popped 1 man

dressed in a black suit who held up a jug and indicated that he wanted

it filled with water. There were 2 other men inside the saucer, and

Simonton saw an instrument panel. All the men were about 5 feet tall and

weighed about a 125 pounds. Not one spoke a word to

Simonton or each other. Simonton filled the jug with water and gave it to

the man who remained outside the ship. 1 of the saucer trio then

gave him 3 cakes about 1 eighth inch thick and 3 or

4 inches in diameter. The man got into the ship with a jug of

water, the hatch snapped shut, and it took off. Simonton said the ship

had exhaust pipes 6 or 7 inches in diameter. Burton said

that Simonton, quote, sounded sincere, unquote, and added that the plumber had

a good reputation in the community. Simonton told the district

attorney He was reluctant to talk about the incident earlier because some

people might think it's preposterous. Simonton gave one of

the cakes The county judge Frank Carris senior. The judge was supposed

to have sent the cake somewhere for analysis, but no one knows

where. I think Carter ate it. He probably wanted to try. I'd wanna

try alien cakes. I wanna try an alien cake tonight.

Obviously, this is ridiculous. He also described them

as Italian looking too? Like, he described him as

kinda swarthy. Yeah. The accounts kinda varied, and

Simon went on to produce a 1 page

pamphlet on the encounter. In his own words, I think he sold it for a

dollar. So he wasn't making money off of this per se. I mean, a

dollar pamphlet. I don't know how he he moved, and I was actually able to

track down a PDF of the original pamphlet. Yeah. So if you want a copy

of that, Hit me up at badgerland legends or jeff@badgerlandlegends.com,

and I'll send it to you. Okay. Yeah. I can count on that. Interesting to

read his he didn't have an editor. It's very colloquial the way that

he describes things in there. The way a man from the river in 1961 would

speak. It seems preposterous, But he seems

sincere, so that's where it makes me pause. Well,

like you said, he wasn't making a lot of money on it. And this May

3, 1961, this is the Green Bay Press Gazette,

aerial study unit not high on Eagle River Space Cake.

Plumber Joe Simonson went back to catch basins today and said the

next flying saucer he sees, he'll keep it to himself. I haven't been

able to work for 3 weeks now, and I'm gonna have to start making some

money, Simonton said. The 3 week layoff began when Simonton

Announced 3 visitors in a flying saucer traded some space pancakes for a jug of

water. It ended Tuesday when the National investigating Committee For

Aerial Phenomena Refused to investigate the pancakes. He said

he's been deluged by letters including one from Australia

and not many from skeptics and cranks. I don't know when I'll get

around to answering them, he said. I don't care what anybody else believes. I just

know what I saw. If it happened again, I don't think I'd tell anybody about

it. However, Simonton has not lost hope that the true contents of the case will

be discovered. He said both the air force and Northwestern University are planning

to analyze the case. Simonton said that a man he identified as

doctor Hynek of Northwestern has agreed to investigate one of the

cakes and let him know the results in about 2 weeks. As for the air

force, well, Simonton said that they're always gonna analyze a cake, but have

indicated that they will keep their results secret. So there he

is. Joe Simonton is now dealing with the father of

ufology. Doctor Hynek comes up to Eagle River

To get the pancakes. And this is 30 years after his work

at the Air Keys, and he's coming back up to the Northwoods to check

out the come back to pancakes from outer space. I gotta come back to

Wisconsin because this plumber had a weird encounter with 3

swarthy aliens about 5 foot tall and a £125

who hate disgusting pancakes. Well, Hynek did have an opinion about it,

and he talks about it with Jacques Vallee, Great

UFO writer and researcher. Probably the premier writer on

ufology today. One of the most highly regarded with

Passport Port of Magonia and some of his other works is thought

as kind of an out of the box thinker Definitely. On the phenomena. Right.

He doesn't just go as Whether they're nuts and like, UFOs are nuts and bolts

or they're aliens, he doesn't try to speculate anything. He goes right into

just different ideas of what they could be, But also not

committing to anything. He's a great analyst and and UFO

writer. In the seventies, he had a discussion

With J. Allen Hynek that was moderated by one of their friends, and it's

called the Edge of Reality, a progress report in unidentified flying

objects. And they have a chapter called The Landing at Eagle River,

Jacque Vallee. What about situations like the Eagle River case that was mentioned

earlier, where the occupants were Ordinary men. You remember the man in

Wisconsin with the pancakes? Heinec. Oh, good old

Joe Simonton. Valet, Joe Simonton. Now he wasn't

in the same psychological category as Adamski. George Adamski

was a California guy that said that he was talking to Venusians

and things like that in in the 19 fifties. And he was

definitely trying to make money, like the UFO phenomena. He

said he got pictures of aliens and things like that. He was always trying to

sell them. Heinecke. No. I'm beginning to think more of Joe

Simonson than I did at the time. Valet. I think

he is telling the truth, frankly. Hi Nick. So do I.

He was. The things he said fit now, whereas they didn't

fit. At least they didn't fit to me at the time. I thought it was

just sheer nonsense. You know the story of Joe Simonton? Well, suddenly the air force

hears that a UFO has allegedly landed at Eagle River, Wisconsin And some

pancakes had been given to this guy by the occupants. I went up there and

I talked with him and I took pictures and so forth. First of all, I

was not at all impressed with him personally or with his surroundings. He lived by

himself. He'd been divorced. He lived in a sort of a shack on the outskirts

of town, and there was nothing to give you a feeling of confidence. This man

could have been a wino. The yard was sort of unkempt bottles

and so forth. Not wine bottles necessarily, but just untidy.

Yeah. He was a plumber, Not the most cleanliest trade. Right?

And then he was also a chicken farmer too. So imagine he had chickens

roaming around the property. You go up to the Northwoods and you get

Satter Rhinelander. And it can get pretty redneck pretty quick. And

I can imagine 1961, it was no different

except for maybe they have indoor plumbing now. Right. Heineken meets him. He's like, the

man could have been a wino. His story was that he was having breakfast 1

morning. He heard a whining noise Side, he looked out the window and there was

a silvery ship descending. It was hovering. It didn't land. Hovered in the backyard, and,

of course, he went out to see what was happening. The door opened and a

creature beckoned to him. And then as he got close, one of them handed down

the most beautiful thermos jug he'd ever seen. He said that the creature didn't

talk, but indicated by sign language, Water, you know. So he got the

idea. He went inside, filled it with water. He brought it out and indicated now

you can drink. But they must have misunderstood him because they thought he wanted

something to eat. So they handed him these pancakes. I kept the sample

of the pancake and I took it back to Dayton. My interpretation at that time

was that he'd been having pancakes himself for breakfast And had suddenly had a waking

dream or what known as psychology, I believe, as an isolation

hypnosis or isolation delusion. And if he'd had his family with him or

other people around, it would have been quite different. A delusion could then have been

ruled out. That's why I don't like single witness cases. As they used to say

in Roman law, 1 witness is no witness.

Then he said it just took off and in 2 or 3 seconds it was

gone. And I said, no sonic boom? No. The

trees waved a little bit but no. Well, I just put it down as a

sheer delusion at the time, but hell, certain little things hit.

No nuts and bolts and no rivets. Everything very smooth, rapid

disappearance, no sonic boom, and the trees being disturbed. I don't know. He

certainly wasn't reading any UFO literature. The moderator says,

well, what about the pancakes? Hi, Nick. Those were examined

and were found to be ordinary grain pancakes. The moderator.

I meant the air force wasn't able to say, well, this is processed pancake batter

from Aunt Jemima's. Hynek, they couldn't tell in great

detail. Although I think they said it was wheat germ pancake. Well, you

wouldn't get anywhere using a story like that and I wouldn't use it. First of

all, on the general grounds of a single witness, And then Jacque Vallee is like,

we disagree about that, you know. Hynex like, we do. It's an honest

disagreement. I recognize this point, but I think you misunderstand me. I may believe

a single witness, But I think there's little positive value in presenting the case

outside because they'll say it's just a single witness and you might have been lying.

Now Hastings, the the moderator, he brings something Also

in that's kinda outside the idea of aliens. Isn't there like some

Joshua Cutchin stuff that we're getting into here. Isn't there a

fairy bread precedent for that? If the fairy is giving food, of

course, then it's not just an ordinary pancake. Ballet.

The exchange of food and fairy lore is a very common symbolic gesture. And with

elves, it's a consistent way of making contact. They often give you

pancakes. The moderator, in Tolkien's ring books, the fairies

give flat pancake like objects. And ballet, well, in Irish poetry,

they live on crispy pancakes and yellow tied foam. The moderator.

Maybe they did come from Aunt Jemima. I don't know. They've gotta get it from

somewhere. Maybe steal it from a local warehouse. Hynek, bringing things back

down to earth. The only thing that I'm uneasy about, and I expect the

2 of you are also, is that we recognize that the subject is much more

complex than we present. Jacques has called this the

megonia syndrome, the whole craziness of the thing, the whole absurdity.

It's another world, another realm That seems to have some interlocking

with ours, and what we're describing here is just that interlocking.

You know, I didn't know about this interview, but I am so glad That this

was documented because I didn't know that valet spoke with

Hynek about this Right. And getting into this weird world of

the wu with the Ferrier Lord and everything. Thanks for sharing that with us.

Yeah. And when I saw that, I was like looking for different stuff on Joe

Simonson. It may be stuff that I hadn't heard in other places. And I'm like,

when I heard Hynek was there, I'm like, why did he write about it? And

then when I saw this, I was like, wow. That's amazing. Them having a conversation.

So that's 1961, and That's a big thing that

makes the newspapers. Obviously, people are talking about it 15 years. We're talking about it

60 years later. We know how successful The Hodeg

Heritage Festival was this past year. Yes. Mothman Festival and all of

these hometown festivals. The Eagle River Chamber of Commerce

Mhmm. Needs to have an alien pancake breakfast

fundraiser in honor of mister Simonson. I think they're missing a huge opportunity. I'd

go. I'd make some very land pancakes to represent the Space

Brothers. There

was also So a big case that Hynek was involved in

in 1966, and it started in Michigan

And it also has a Wisconsin connection. March 14,

1966 is from the Ann Arbor News, and it describes the area's

initial UFO sighting in Ann Arbor. Strange flying objects sighted.

Many witnesses see them zoom, explanation sought. Washtenaw County

sheriff's deputies are working with civil defense officials and air force officers In an

attempt to find an explanation for 4 strange flying objects sighted over this

area early this morning, deputy Buford Bushrow called the

objects The weirdest things I ever seen. Bushrow and deputy

John Foster first saw the objects at 3:50 AM as the officers were

cruising on Waters Road near Lima Center in Lima Township.

They said there was a single red green object at first moving at which described

fantastic speed. The object appeared like a distant star and appeared in the

northwest part of the sky, the deputy said. The officers notified the county

jail headquarters of the object. And moments later, police agencies

Livingston County, Monroe County, and the city of Ypsilanti were in contact with the

jail to report sightings of the strange object. Okay. This is in Michigan.

And first of all, What I like here is that the cops see

something and they called it, and everybody else is like, holy crap. Let's go look.

Sure. This is the also the 19 sixties. We're in the middle of the Cold

War. They see something in the sky.

Are they gonna think it's a UFO, or they think it's Soviet? Right. So Yeah.

To me, this is interesting because now we immediately would think, oh,

UFO, where Back then This is the Russians.

They take it serious. They were going to attack. In 1961,

Nikita Khrushchev banged his True. At the table at the UN and

said we will bury you. Mhmm. That's something to worry about.

And so the fact that They see something in the sky and they don't just

laugh it off. Oh, I don't know what it is. They call it in. And

a whole bunch of people see this in Ann Arbor. And this is the famous

one that Hynek, He has a specific explanation for, and then people end

up kinda making fun of it for years. From Michigan NPR in 2017,

quote, the official explanation, Flares caused by the

burning of gases bubbling up from the area's swamps was unsatisfactory

to those involved. Then congressman Gerald

Ford called for a congressional investigation that never

happened, unquote. J. Allen Height called it swamp

gas, And or at least that he was saying the potential

explanations that were worldly. Yeah. And I always thought that was kind of a cop

out because they're saying that this gas is being

released, But then something ignites it and creates that, and

then they talk about ball lightning, but that's really also kind of a

mysterious phenomenon that's not necessary explained. So So Swamp

Gestimate is just mysterious as a UFO. Yeah. Exactly. Situation. That's exactly what I'm

saying. Thing is, he wasn't trying to make fun of it or just say, like,

that's all you saw. He was presenting specific Things it's like, okay.

Here's other things it could be. And not saying like, oh, this is all you

saw. And so the swamp gas kind of gets doesn't get in everybody's

head. Now this also starts to wave. Green Bay Press Gazette.

Green Bay, Wisconsin 1966. Wide area of state reports UFO

lights. Monroe County officer gives chase, Sightings multiply in

Michigan. Residents in a wide area of Wisconsin reported seeing mysterious

moving lights in the sky Thursday night and early today. Descriptions of this phenomena

range from white to bluish green to flashing red. Tomah police were

told by several persons around 7 PM Thursday of a round white light with

occasional flashes of red and greenish blue traveling eastward. Monroe

County traffic officer Dale Trowbridge said he drove his squad car

70 miles and following the light, losing sight of the Verano County.

Portage County Sheriff's Office at Stevens Point said a squad car reported

around 11 PM seeing a red and greenish light in the sky at a

point believed the west of Marshfield. At about the same time, squad

cars of the Monroe and Jackson County Sheriff's Departments reported seeing

Similarly colored lights, which, however, stopped in reverse directions

traveling very fast. The Clark County Sheriff's Office at Nellsville

reports sightings at 432 this morning, a flashing light south and

west of Marshfield. Other reports of lights came from Waukesha and

Milwaukee counties. It's also in Wausau. You know, they they keep going on it as

reports of flying saucer whizzing through Michigan skies continue to multiply as

air force investigator called a news conference at Detroit Today to discuss his

probe with unidentified flying objects, doctor J. Allen Hynek of

Northwestern University astrophysicist Called the

conference after spending almost a week interviewing people in the nearby Ann Arbor and

Hillsdale areas where most of the sightings have originated. Hynek, who

has studied and investigated UFOs for the past 13 years, called the conference a day

after the air force said it would have an explanation of the sightings Within

24 hours. That's why it's swamp gas. Because the air force

said I mean, all these cops see it. Yeah. And these cops are probably vets

too. 19 sixties. Right? So these cops are probably people that fought either in in

World War 2 or Korea. Yeah. And so, I

mean, just look at Monroe County officer, he files it for 70 miles.

That's crazy. So swamp gas, how does that travel 70

miles? Bingo. And the thing is, why is Hynek pressured To give

that kind of explanation, it's because the air force is like, we got to explain

it to these people. Yeah. They're trying to explain it away. Yeah. I just I

did not realize it was a Wisconsin connection to those Michigan sightings

in 1966. And so what I'm finding is

you have all these big sightings and things that are

big in ufology over time. And somehow, Wisconsin

gets in the mix all the time. Mhmm. And that's just

great. It's great for us who like to study and write about Wisconsin.

Right.

Coming up on part 2 of the Wisconsin Legends

podcast, Wisconsin UFOs. We have 3

different UFO capitals. If you think Simonton was

crazy, this won't even get nuttier. One of the things we

missed from this episode and a special guest to tell us

more. John Keel put in a title in a

40 times article in 1982 that Palmer

was the man who invented flying saucers. Mike and

I share our own UFO encounters. One time in Puerto Rico, I

saw something that I thought might be an unidentified flying object. I

looked up over at the train line, and I saw

3 glowing orbs. They're amberish red

color. Now that And so much more on the conclusion

of the Wisconsin Legends podcast, Wisconsin UFOs.

The Wisconsin Legends This podcast is presented by American Ghost

Walks, hosted by Mike Huberty and Jeff Finnop, recorded at

Sunspot Studios in Madison, Wisconsin, edited by Jeff

Finnop, audio engineer Mike Huberty, music by

Sunspot, and various artists. Find out more about the show, including

show notes at wisconsin legends podcast.com. Follow the

guys at American Ghost Walks and Badgerland Legends on Instagram

Facebook. We'll see you

next time.