1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,060 Matt Edmundson: Welcome to the e-Commerce podcast with 2 00:00:03,060 --> 00:00:04,510 me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 3 00:00:04,530 --> 00:00:08,250 Now this is a show all about helping you deliver e-commerce. 4 00:00:08,250 --> 00:00:08,850 Wow. 5 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,900 And to do that today I'm chatting with a fellow Brit 6 00:00:12,930 --> 00:00:17,520 Tony Conte from Brave Agency, and we are gonna be talking 7 00:00:17,550 --> 00:00:21,360 about marketing everything to do with e-commerce marketing, 8 00:00:21,630 --> 00:00:23,970 which I know is a topic we're all interesting 'cause 9 00:00:23,970 --> 00:00:25,200 why would we not be right? 10 00:00:25,259 --> 00:00:28,439 Uh, we all want to know how to market our businesses. 11 00:00:28,865 --> 00:00:29,375 Better. 12 00:00:29,375 --> 00:00:30,665 So make sure you stay tuned for that. 13 00:00:30,665 --> 00:00:31,985 Grab your notebooks, grab your pens. 14 00:00:31,985 --> 00:00:33,215 'cause you're definitely gonna want them. 15 00:00:33,725 --> 00:00:35,555 Now whilst you are doing that, if you haven't done 16 00:00:35,555 --> 00:00:39,815 so already, make sure you sign up for our newsletter. 17 00:00:39,815 --> 00:00:40,144 Yes. 18 00:00:40,175 --> 00:00:43,685 'cause every week we are sending out some amazing stuff. 19 00:00:44,705 --> 00:00:46,410 I. Tips and tricks from the podcast with some of 20 00:00:46,410 --> 00:00:47,280 the bits and bobs as well. 21 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,560 But all the show notes, all the links, they're also in there. 22 00:00:50,010 --> 00:00:51,660 Uh, and so you just get it straight to your 23 00:00:51,660 --> 00:00:52,560 inbox totally for free. 24 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,890 So you can get a hold of that at ecommercepodcast.net. 25 00:00:56,910 --> 00:00:59,010 So make sure you do, and I will see you over there. 26 00:00:59,730 --> 00:01:02,879 Now, before we get into the conversation, I just want to 27 00:01:02,879 --> 00:01:07,050 give a little bit of a shout out to my mate, Darren Hickey, uh, 28 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:08,730 who connects us from Fellowship. 29 00:01:08,730 --> 00:01:10,290 If you don't, if you're a regular to the show, you 30 00:01:10,290 --> 00:01:11,369 may recognize the name. 31 00:01:11,369 --> 00:01:12,990 Darren was on it back in November. 32 00:01:13,535 --> 00:01:15,240 Uh, and we talked about WooCommerce. 33 00:01:16,350 --> 00:01:18,330 He's a bit of a WooCommerce expert. 34 00:01:18,839 --> 00:01:22,170 Uh, and so Darren introduced both Tony and myself. 35 00:01:22,170 --> 00:01:23,970 And so Tony is here because of Darren? 36 00:01:24,059 --> 00:01:24,600 Yes, he is. 37 00:01:24,630 --> 00:01:27,119 So just say thanks to Darren 'cause Darren's a legend. 38 00:01:27,244 --> 00:01:27,905 Thanks Darren. 39 00:01:27,964 --> 00:01:29,225 Uh, there you go. 40 00:01:29,225 --> 00:01:29,905 Thanks Darren. 41 00:01:30,325 --> 00:01:35,009 Uh, let's meet, uh, Tony, the founder of Brave Agency, 42 00:01:35,009 --> 00:01:36,809 a digital pioneer in brand. 43 00:01:36,965 --> 00:01:40,265 Marketing and e-commerce since the mid nineties 44 00:01:40,595 --> 00:01:42,605 did a decade evens exist? 45 00:01:42,605 --> 00:01:43,595 We don't know, do we? 46 00:01:43,955 --> 00:01:47,195 Uh, in 2000, he launched Brave from his garage with zero 47 00:01:47,195 --> 00:01:50,885 clients and a big vision, an integrated agency where 48 00:01:50,885 --> 00:01:54,515 creativity, tech, and strategy unite for client success. 49 00:01:54,815 --> 00:01:58,505 Today, brave turns clicks into loyal customers and 50 00:01:58,505 --> 00:02:02,135 helps ambitious brands push boundaries and thrive. 51 00:02:02,165 --> 00:02:04,565 And you know what, Tony, the thing that I love is, you've 52 00:02:04,565 --> 00:02:06,245 been doing this since the mid. 53 00:02:06,289 --> 00:02:07,219 Nineties now. 54 00:02:07,219 --> 00:02:13,340 I started my little journey around 1997, about a year 55 00:02:13,340 --> 00:02:14,510 before I got married. 56 00:02:14,660 --> 00:02:18,290 Um, ah, and so, and I started in e-commerce in 2002. 57 00:02:18,290 --> 00:02:20,900 So, uh, I often referred to myself as 58 00:02:20,900 --> 00:02:22,070 an e-commerce dinosaur. 59 00:02:22,070 --> 00:02:22,170 I. No, 60 00:02:23,310 --> 00:02:23,820 Tony Conte: not at all. 61 00:02:23,910 --> 00:02:26,430 I don't The dinosaur we Not the dinosaur. 62 00:02:26,435 --> 00:02:28,050 We were, we were the pioneers. 63 00:02:28,980 --> 00:02:29,250 That's true. 64 00:02:29,250 --> 00:02:31,585 If it wasn't for us, then uh, there would be no internet. 65 00:02:32,845 --> 00:02:35,280 No, not no internet, but commerce, 66 00:02:36,150 --> 00:02:36,300 Matt Edmundson: no. 67 00:02:36,300 --> 00:02:37,290 I'm gonna take the internet. 68 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,180 If it wasn't for me and you tiny, there 69 00:02:39,180 --> 00:02:40,050 would be no internet. 70 00:02:40,050 --> 00:02:40,530 Everybody. 71 00:02:40,620 --> 00:02:41,580 You're, you're welcome. 72 00:02:41,940 --> 00:02:42,090 Yeah. 73 00:02:42,090 --> 00:02:42,750 That's all I can say. 74 00:02:43,170 --> 00:02:44,760 Tony Conte: We've both, we've both seen the.com 75 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:45,450 bubble, haven't we? 76 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:46,110 Matt Edmundson: We saw it. 77 00:02:46,350 --> 00:02:47,370 We saw it burst. 78 00:02:47,820 --> 00:02:48,480 We did. 79 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,520 It came and it went really quickly and everyone's 80 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:51,785 like, what is going on? 81 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,075 Uh, uh, to be fair, we've seen everything. 82 00:02:54,075 --> 00:02:55,905 I mean, there was no mob mobile phones. 83 00:02:55,905 --> 00:02:57,705 You didn't have to worry about mobile commerce. 84 00:02:57,705 --> 00:03:02,265 There was basically, you just had a website and you can, it 85 00:03:02,265 --> 00:03:05,235 took us a while to even figure out email marketing, you know? 86 00:03:05,625 --> 00:03:05,865 Exactly. 87 00:03:05,865 --> 00:03:06,855 It's like what? 88 00:03:07,305 --> 00:03:07,575 Yeah. 89 00:03:07,575 --> 00:03:09,735 Google just seemed to pick you up because it did. 90 00:03:10,095 --> 00:03:10,515 Yeah. 91 00:03:10,515 --> 00:03:13,035 And then it was a few years later, Google AdWords came in. 92 00:03:13,035 --> 00:03:15,075 So, I mean, all these things, you've sort of seen them come 93 00:03:15,255 --> 00:03:16,965 and a lot of things you've seen come and go, really? 94 00:03:17,565 --> 00:03:20,235 So it's, it is cool that you've been around, you know, 95 00:03:20,265 --> 00:03:24,765 a, a, a, uh, as they say, and you, you've obviously, 96 00:03:24,765 --> 00:03:25,605 you must have enjoyed it. 97 00:03:26,430 --> 00:03:28,470 Tony Conte: Yes, it's, has its ups and downs. 98 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,645 Um, been a lot of changes, a lot of challenges along the way. 99 00:03:31,645 --> 00:03:32,045 Mm-hmm. 100 00:03:32,225 --> 00:03:35,910 Um, but the way that everything, I'd say just the way that 101 00:03:36,150 --> 00:03:40,800 people interact with, you know, online channels, uh, just has 102 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,930 changed so much over the years. 103 00:03:42,930 --> 00:03:42,990 Yeah. 104 00:03:43,245 --> 00:03:46,335 Um, but that means that you have to be kind of thinking 105 00:03:46,335 --> 00:03:49,545 about what the next way, shape, or form of, of a, 106 00:03:49,545 --> 00:03:52,455 of a website should be, or in terms of how they're 107 00:03:52,455 --> 00:03:56,115 gonna in interact with that, that, um, advert, et cetera. 108 00:03:56,325 --> 00:03:57,975 Um, the fundamentals are still there. 109 00:03:58,035 --> 00:04:01,215 You've gotta attract, engage, and per, you know, effectively 110 00:04:01,305 --> 00:04:02,565 persuade them to purchase. 111 00:04:02,865 --> 00:04:05,625 It's just that the, the, the, the speed at which 112 00:04:05,625 --> 00:04:07,095 now we can develop. 113 00:04:07,575 --> 00:04:08,385 Um. 114 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,580 Marketing in general. 115 00:04:10,610 --> 00:04:14,255 Online is, uh, is just a, you know, it is just, it, it, it 116 00:04:14,780 --> 00:04:16,700 literally, it is too quick. 117 00:04:16,700 --> 00:04:16,760 Yeah. 118 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,099 For, I think, I think the actual techno, I think we're 119 00:04:19,099 --> 00:04:21,920 finding that the technology is, although it's helping us to 120 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,060 kind of speed up the processes and the analytics et et cetera, 121 00:04:26,060 --> 00:04:27,680 it, it's, it's even faster now. 122 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,200 And obviously with ai it's, it's, yeah, it's balloons 123 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:31,940 now to a, a crazy level. 124 00:04:31,940 --> 00:04:34,190 So, um, yeah, it's exciting. 125 00:04:34,460 --> 00:04:35,810 It's certainly, um. 126 00:04:36,179 --> 00:04:38,700 I'd say it's not for the faint hearted, for sure. 127 00:04:38,849 --> 00:04:38,939 Mm-hmm. 128 00:04:39,270 --> 00:04:41,820 Um, but yeah, it's, it's been enjoyable. 129 00:04:41,969 --> 00:04:43,890 He says, says 130 00:04:43,890 --> 00:04:44,335 Matt Edmundson: secret gr. 131 00:04:46,020 --> 00:04:46,469 Yeah. 132 00:04:46,979 --> 00:04:47,700 It's funny, isn't it? 133 00:04:47,700 --> 00:04:51,090 Because I, as I'm talking, I'm getting all nostalgic now, but 134 00:04:51,090 --> 00:04:54,270 as I'm, as we're talking Tony, I'm kind of thinking, you know 135 00:04:54,270 --> 00:04:58,200 what, when, when I launched my first website back in 2002, 136 00:05:00,689 --> 00:05:03,989 marketing was literally launching the website, right. 137 00:05:04,049 --> 00:05:05,249 And search engines. 138 00:05:05,624 --> 00:05:06,824 Managed to pick it up. 139 00:05:07,335 --> 00:05:09,465 And there was ma there weren't that many, uh, 140 00:05:09,465 --> 00:05:10,364 websites back then. 141 00:05:10,364 --> 00:05:12,374 So you, you tended to get on page one. 142 00:05:12,734 --> 00:05:12,854 Mm-hmm. 143 00:05:13,094 --> 00:05:15,794 And people were, were sort of, they would buy it and 144 00:05:15,794 --> 00:05:18,374 then they would call to make sure you were legitimate 145 00:05:18,405 --> 00:05:20,984 because they, you know, they felt twitchy about giving you 146 00:05:20,984 --> 00:05:22,124 their credit card details. 147 00:05:23,295 --> 00:05:27,375 But marketing, um, in some respects, as we know it 148 00:05:27,375 --> 00:05:30,285 now, didn't exist that whole, you know, the whole 149 00:05:30,285 --> 00:05:31,635 realm of digital marketing. 150 00:05:31,995 --> 00:05:35,055 But what did exist was the fundamentals, as you say, 151 00:05:35,055 --> 00:05:36,435 so of old school principles. 152 00:05:36,825 --> 00:05:39,225 The website had to attract people, it had to make sense, 153 00:05:39,435 --> 00:05:43,395 you know, uh, you had to deliver a great service. 154 00:05:43,875 --> 00:05:46,424 For those people to come back and buy again. 155 00:05:46,424 --> 00:05:48,555 These things have always been sort of timeless, haven't they? 156 00:05:48,555 --> 00:05:49,755 Even sort of pre-internet. 157 00:05:50,715 --> 00:05:50,805 Yeah. 158 00:05:50,805 --> 00:05:55,065 And uh, one of the things that sort of strikes me about a lot 159 00:05:55,065 --> 00:05:57,495 of e-commerce entrepreneurs, a lot of conversations I have 160 00:05:58,155 --> 00:06:01,515 in essence I can summarize in a single statement, is 161 00:06:01,515 --> 00:06:03,974 that a lot of people are looking for the silver bullet. 162 00:06:04,575 --> 00:06:08,655 Like, if I just pull this one lever, like if I spend 163 00:06:08,655 --> 00:06:12,315 10 grand on Facebook ads or if I do TikTok or whatever 164 00:06:12,315 --> 00:06:14,925 it is, you know, whatever the latest thing is, I'm gonna 165 00:06:14,925 --> 00:06:17,085 pull that lever and it's gonna make me a millionaire. 166 00:06:17,205 --> 00:06:17,475 Right. 167 00:06:17,475 --> 00:06:19,515 Do you, do you get a lot of these inquiries? 168 00:06:19,784 --> 00:06:20,355 Tony Conte: Uh, yeah. 169 00:06:20,355 --> 00:06:21,015 A hell of a lot. 170 00:06:21,105 --> 00:06:22,780 Um, we get a, yeah. 171 00:06:23,474 --> 00:06:25,155 I think generally speaking, they think one 172 00:06:25,155 --> 00:06:26,745 channel will save it all. 173 00:06:26,745 --> 00:06:31,575 And, and, um, the reality of it is, is that it's, it. 174 00:06:31,965 --> 00:06:34,034 There's gotta be, there's, there's gotta 175 00:06:34,034 --> 00:06:34,934 be about 10 channels. 176 00:06:34,934 --> 00:06:36,585 You could, there's 10 levers you can pull. 177 00:06:36,645 --> 00:06:40,004 That's just, you know, um, but each one works. 178 00:06:40,395 --> 00:06:42,854 In its own way, but has contributes to 179 00:06:42,854 --> 00:06:43,784 each one, basically. 180 00:06:43,784 --> 00:06:43,905 Yeah. 181 00:06:43,909 --> 00:06:47,534 You can't run, as you know, you can run paid advertising, that's 182 00:06:47,534 --> 00:06:52,034 fine, but if you put your ads in one basket, then your e-commerce 183 00:06:52,034 --> 00:06:55,604 brand, it is only as worth as much as a paid ad campaign. 184 00:06:55,874 --> 00:06:56,025 Yeah. 185 00:06:56,025 --> 00:06:59,085 If you're not generating content or social proofing, 186 00:06:59,234 --> 00:07:01,989 SEO, et cetera, you know, I personally wouldn't buy. 187 00:07:02,314 --> 00:07:05,554 An e-commerce brand, if they didn't have organic 188 00:07:05,645 --> 00:07:09,515 traffic sales attribution attributed to SEO. 189 00:07:09,754 --> 00:07:09,994 Mm-hmm. 190 00:07:09,994 --> 00:07:12,874 Because anybody could, any, anybody can throw money at it. 191 00:07:13,205 --> 00:07:13,325 Yeah. 192 00:07:13,325 --> 00:07:13,804 So. 193 00:07:14,594 --> 00:07:17,474 We, they'll come in and say, okay, we, we need to do TikTok. 194 00:07:17,474 --> 00:07:19,874 Well, yeah, you need to do TikTok, but where's the brand? 195 00:07:19,874 --> 00:07:19,965 Mm-hmm. 196 00:07:20,025 --> 00:07:20,895 Where's the positioning? 197 00:07:20,895 --> 00:07:21,765 Where's the social proof? 198 00:07:21,765 --> 00:07:24,974 And is the product fit for fit for the audience? 199 00:07:25,034 --> 00:07:28,635 You know, so there's, I think it's become, yeah. 200 00:07:29,684 --> 00:07:33,015 I dunno if that answers a question, but Yes. 201 00:07:33,135 --> 00:07:34,034 Lots of times. 202 00:07:34,034 --> 00:07:37,306 Can we just do SEO No, you can't just do seo or can you 203 00:07:37,306 --> 00:07:40,515 do, you know, can, can we just do, um, TikTok shop and forget 204 00:07:40,515 --> 00:07:41,565 about any, anything else? 205 00:07:42,055 --> 00:07:44,305 Kind of, it's possible, but there's a ceiling 206 00:07:44,305 --> 00:07:45,025 on that as well. 207 00:07:45,025 --> 00:07:51,055 So, um, I think it's just got a lot more, um, uh, mixed. 208 00:07:51,414 --> 00:07:55,135 You know, it's now on, you know, multi-channel, I'd say. 209 00:07:55,135 --> 00:07:55,344 Yeah. 210 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:55,560 Yeah. 211 00:07:55,945 --> 00:07:58,015 You can't, you know, you, that's most of the 212 00:07:58,015 --> 00:08:01,645 conversations now are, we're running five channels. 213 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,780 We think one or two are potentially not 214 00:08:03,780 --> 00:08:05,730 working, or we're leaving money on the table. 215 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,460 Um, and that's where, you know, we would get involved and say, 216 00:08:08,460 --> 00:08:09,810 okay, let's look at the numbers. 217 00:08:09,900 --> 00:08:10,860 Let's look at the audience. 218 00:08:10,860 --> 00:08:12,960 Let's look at the, the attribution, make sure 219 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,570 everything's, you know, fir on all cylinders. 220 00:08:15,870 --> 00:08:17,910 Um, but normally you can't. 221 00:08:17,910 --> 00:08:20,070 There's no silver, no silver bullet. 222 00:08:20,550 --> 00:08:21,600 Now there's no silver bullet. 223 00:08:22,499 --> 00:08:23,939 Matt Edmundson: No, I, I, I would agree. 224 00:08:23,939 --> 00:08:26,820 I think you, you get to a stage where you hear stories 225 00:08:26,820 --> 00:08:29,909 of a somebody on YouTube who managed to pull off a 226 00:08:29,909 --> 00:08:32,070 miracle and then they do a YouTube video about it. 227 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:32,640 Tony Conte: Yeah. 228 00:08:32,790 --> 00:08:35,580 Matt Edmundson: Um, but I, I think for most people, 229 00:08:35,580 --> 00:08:37,470 I. Actually, you are right. 230 00:08:37,470 --> 00:08:42,510 That that digital marketing now is, is, is evolved and is 231 00:08:42,510 --> 00:08:47,430 evolving to such an extent that Yeah, it is impossible, I think 232 00:08:47,430 --> 00:08:52,770 for, for a solo entrepreneur who is doing e-commerce to 233 00:08:52,770 --> 00:08:56,069 keep up with what the changes are and to keep it with a, 234 00:08:56,460 --> 00:08:58,560 like if I was just running my e-commerce business, 235 00:08:58,560 --> 00:08:59,760 we have a team of people. 236 00:09:00,510 --> 00:09:02,790 Yeah, but how would I find the time to. 237 00:09:03,870 --> 00:09:06,690 Do the SEO to do the blogs, the content, the social 238 00:09:06,690 --> 00:09:11,160 media, make the videos, um, do the, run the paid ads, 239 00:09:11,310 --> 00:09:13,860 make sure my email marketing campaigns are up to date. 240 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:15,600 Do the abandoned cart flows. 241 00:09:15,795 --> 00:09:16,375 Do you know what I mean? 242 00:09:16,375 --> 00:09:18,300 Uh, do my silly dance on TikTok. 243 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:19,890 I appreciate that's not just TikTok. 244 00:09:19,890 --> 00:09:20,850 Now I'm being facetious. 245 00:09:20,970 --> 00:09:24,180 I've done, we've all done them to be fair, but do 246 00:09:24,180 --> 00:09:24,510 you know what I mean? 247 00:09:24,510 --> 00:09:26,520 There's so much going on. 248 00:09:26,580 --> 00:09:26,910 Yeah. 249 00:09:27,270 --> 00:09:30,450 Um, that it is, I think it's almost impossible 250 00:09:30,450 --> 00:09:31,980 now to try and to try and. 251 00:09:34,805 --> 00:09:37,945 To, to keep up with it as a, as a solo entrepreneur, you, 252 00:09:37,950 --> 00:09:39,570 you, you genuinely need help. 253 00:09:39,570 --> 00:09:39,900 I think. 254 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,390 Tony Conte: I think, um, the key is prioritization 255 00:09:42,390 --> 00:09:45,480 because you could just go at all of those, you know? 256 00:09:45,510 --> 00:09:48,120 Mm. All 20 elements that you just mentioned, but 257 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:49,950 it's prioritizing and putting it in an order. 258 00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:53,040 You know, I think that's the key really. 259 00:09:53,070 --> 00:09:54,900 'cause there's two, you know, and, and looking at 260 00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:57,540 every single channel and reviewing actually what's, 261 00:09:57,570 --> 00:10:00,120 what's the potential return on investment from that channel? 262 00:10:00,300 --> 00:10:02,370 And can I put the investment from that channel 263 00:10:02,430 --> 00:10:03,390 into the next channel? 264 00:10:03,390 --> 00:10:03,630 Mm-hmm. 265 00:10:04,140 --> 00:10:05,670 Or, you know, and then dial everything up. 266 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,760 That's where, that's where I've seen most e-commerce 267 00:10:09,030 --> 00:10:12,385 businesses that are thriving, is that they've, they've had 268 00:10:12,425 --> 00:10:17,610 a clear, um, analysis of all the channels, all the tactics. 269 00:10:18,765 --> 00:10:22,995 Then gone with quite, quite a methodical path there. 270 00:10:23,175 --> 00:10:23,415 Yeah. 271 00:10:23,415 --> 00:10:25,665 In terms of how they reinvest, et cetera. 272 00:10:25,665 --> 00:10:29,205 I mean, some of our early clients from sort of from 273 00:10:29,205 --> 00:10:32,655 2000, 2005, they're really early and they went from 274 00:10:32,655 --> 00:10:36,315 mail order, you know, ordering stuff in magazines. 275 00:10:36,930 --> 00:10:39,360 Cutting all the magazine spend and saying, right, what's 276 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:40,470 the internet all about, Tony? 277 00:10:40,470 --> 00:10:41,790 And they said, oh, I was thinking, oh God. 278 00:10:41,790 --> 00:10:42,060 Okay. 279 00:10:42,270 --> 00:10:44,160 So basically it's an online catalog, you know? 280 00:10:44,460 --> 00:10:47,520 Um, and okay, well how do I, I'm number one in all the 281 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,490 magazines 'cause I'm spending, you know, 20,000 pounds on 282 00:10:50,490 --> 00:10:52,290 a, on a, every single month. 283 00:10:52,290 --> 00:10:54,930 And mags then was quite, quite, quite significant. 284 00:10:55,170 --> 00:10:55,290 Yeah. 285 00:10:55,290 --> 00:10:55,890 Um. 286 00:10:56,805 --> 00:10:59,115 The ones that kind of not, I'm not saying like they 287 00:10:59,115 --> 00:11:01,425 listened, but the ones that actually started thinking 288 00:11:01,425 --> 00:11:03,705 about this is, this is, this looks like a potential. 289 00:11:03,975 --> 00:11:06,135 This, this is where my mail order's gonna go. 290 00:11:06,405 --> 00:11:06,555 Yeah. 291 00:11:06,555 --> 00:11:10,245 They literally, they literally launched their websites in a 292 00:11:10,245 --> 00:11:11,775 catalog online point of view. 293 00:11:11,775 --> 00:11:14,835 It wasn't actually commerce at that point necessarily. 294 00:11:14,835 --> 00:11:15,915 It was all about getting online. 295 00:11:15,915 --> 00:11:17,415 And they would get the phone calls, get, keep 296 00:11:17,415 --> 00:11:18,555 getting phone calls from it. 297 00:11:19,065 --> 00:11:22,545 Um, and they soon realized that the more they put 298 00:11:22,545 --> 00:11:24,705 into paid ads, it was like. 299 00:11:24,945 --> 00:11:26,835 The more exposure they were getting in magazines. 300 00:11:26,835 --> 00:11:27,975 It's the same principle. 301 00:11:28,035 --> 00:11:28,485 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 302 00:11:28,665 --> 00:11:30,435 Tony Conte: Um, that, that, that worked. 303 00:11:30,435 --> 00:11:34,335 And, and don't forget, uh, Google ad PPC then was 304 00:11:34,335 --> 00:11:37,725 impression based from 2000 to 2000 and it was cheap. 305 00:11:38,235 --> 00:11:39,345 Yeah, exactly. 306 00:11:39,645 --> 00:11:40,365 And it, yeah. 307 00:11:40,485 --> 00:11:42,285 Not like it is now, but yeah. 308 00:11:42,585 --> 00:11:44,775 I mean, the whole, the, the whole kind of click, 309 00:11:44,985 --> 00:11:46,215 you know, pay per click. 310 00:11:46,335 --> 00:11:46,605 Yeah. 311 00:11:46,605 --> 00:11:48,945 Didn't really, I don't think it came in until about two. 312 00:11:49,035 --> 00:11:51,555 I think it was something like 2002, 2004, maybe, 313 00:11:51,555 --> 00:11:52,245 something like that. 314 00:11:52,395 --> 00:11:54,045 But it was all impression based before then. 315 00:11:54,645 --> 00:11:55,305 Um. 316 00:11:55,575 --> 00:11:59,085 But I think it's, it's, it's the fundamentals. 317 00:11:59,085 --> 00:12:02,265 I keep saying it, you know, to to, to various kind of 318 00:12:02,265 --> 00:12:04,305 brands that come on board, especially challenger brands. 319 00:12:04,455 --> 00:12:06,525 Fundamentals of advertising hasn't really changed. 320 00:12:06,525 --> 00:12:08,085 It's just the channel by channel. 321 00:12:08,085 --> 00:12:08,175 Mm-hmm. 322 00:12:08,415 --> 00:12:09,345 And prioritizing. 323 00:12:09,735 --> 00:12:12,015 And prioritizing the numbers as well. 324 00:12:12,675 --> 00:12:12,945 So 325 00:12:13,215 --> 00:12:13,965 Matt Edmundson: let's talk about that. 326 00:12:14,025 --> 00:12:16,875 Um, how would you go about prioritizing? 327 00:12:16,875 --> 00:12:21,165 So here I am, I'm, I'm an overworked, uh oh, overwhelmed 328 00:12:21,165 --> 00:12:22,305 is probably a better word. 329 00:12:22,485 --> 00:12:23,805 Um, e-commerce. 330 00:12:24,070 --> 00:12:24,670 Founder. 331 00:12:24,940 --> 00:12:25,150 Mm-hmm. 332 00:12:25,210 --> 00:12:28,150 Um, it's all, it's, it's okay. 333 00:12:28,150 --> 00:12:30,490 But, you know, I feel like my life is non-existent 334 00:12:30,490 --> 00:12:31,390 in, in many ways. 335 00:12:31,780 --> 00:12:34,720 How do I prioritize, how do I look at what I'm 336 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:35,830 doing and going right. 337 00:12:35,830 --> 00:12:39,340 This is, this is the best way to prioritize my marketing. 338 00:12:40,125 --> 00:12:42,285 Tony Conte: I, I guess, I guess obviously, you 339 00:12:42,285 --> 00:12:45,795 know, we can't control the operational side of a business. 340 00:12:45,885 --> 00:12:49,755 We can, we can, we can forecast sales increases 341 00:12:49,755 --> 00:12:52,455 so they don't buckle under the, under the load. 342 00:12:52,455 --> 00:12:53,265 That's one element. 343 00:12:53,565 --> 00:12:56,565 But in terms of prioritizing, you know, there's quite a 344 00:12:56,565 --> 00:12:59,625 few that we've met, you know, that are seven days a week, 345 00:12:59,625 --> 00:13:00,735 they're in the business. 346 00:13:00,795 --> 00:13:00,885 Mm-hmm. 347 00:13:00,885 --> 00:13:01,890 They've got, you know, mm-hmm. 348 00:13:02,085 --> 00:13:06,465 Um, they've got maybe 10, maybe 20 staff, something like that. 349 00:13:06,675 --> 00:13:08,685 They're constantly in the business all the time. 350 00:13:09,045 --> 00:13:14,025 Um, introducing automation when it comes to, um, a lot of 351 00:13:14,025 --> 00:13:15,825 their activities is, is key. 352 00:13:16,185 --> 00:13:16,305 Yeah. 353 00:13:16,335 --> 00:13:21,195 Um, and helping them, helping them through. 354 00:13:23,535 --> 00:13:25,185 I mean the tech, there's the technical sides of a 355 00:13:25,185 --> 00:13:28,185 website, so you automate a lot of the activity as well. 356 00:13:28,185 --> 00:13:29,745 You know, email automation is one. 357 00:13:29,895 --> 00:13:29,985 Mm-hmm. 358 00:13:30,225 --> 00:13:31,815 So they don't have to do anything manually there. 359 00:13:32,175 --> 00:13:35,775 Um, we take away a lot of the stress in terms of, um, 360 00:13:35,835 --> 00:13:38,535 whether it's content, you know, to content strategy 361 00:13:38,535 --> 00:13:41,235 and actually delivering that, that strategy for them. 362 00:13:41,235 --> 00:13:44,505 So the key is to kind of work out what their strengths are. 363 00:13:45,195 --> 00:13:49,335 And work alongside their them or their existing Yeah. 364 00:13:49,395 --> 00:13:50,805 Um, teams really. 365 00:13:51,195 --> 00:13:53,775 Um, 'cause it is tough to kind of pull away and give 366 00:13:53,775 --> 00:13:54,795 everything to an agency. 367 00:13:54,795 --> 00:13:56,175 And we never say that to a client. 368 00:13:56,175 --> 00:13:57,855 We never say, I don't think anybody should say like, 369 00:13:58,005 --> 00:13:59,535 here's everything crack on. 370 00:13:59,805 --> 00:14:01,785 I think it's the kind of understanding what they should 371 00:14:01,845 --> 00:14:03,255 and shouldn't be doing in house. 372 00:14:03,525 --> 00:14:03,645 Yeah. 373 00:14:03,645 --> 00:14:06,555 At that given moment in time, I'm, and I'm always 374 00:14:06,555 --> 00:14:08,895 one for actually having the conversation to say like, we 375 00:14:08,895 --> 00:14:10,635 wanna get you to the X level. 376 00:14:10,815 --> 00:14:13,125 We want you to be in the position where you can actually. 377 00:14:14,025 --> 00:14:16,395 Get your own team to do X, Y, and Z. We still wanna be 378 00:14:16,395 --> 00:14:18,825 here, we still wanna be helping you run the, the strategy and 379 00:14:18,825 --> 00:14:20,145 the real technical pieces. 380 00:14:20,325 --> 00:14:22,875 But we see you kind of growing your content team 381 00:14:22,875 --> 00:14:25,905 because I think the, the, the, and I, it's a slightly 382 00:14:25,905 --> 00:14:29,685 off tangent, but content has always been king for many, 383 00:14:29,685 --> 00:14:31,335 many years before I was born. 384 00:14:31,335 --> 00:14:32,505 You know, it's always been about. 385 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,140 Um, that's where advertising and engagement comes from. 386 00:14:37,140 --> 00:14:40,080 The, the, the creativity, the content, and it still 387 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,400 is to this present day. 388 00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:45,810 Um, and brands need to bring a lot of that in-house. 389 00:14:46,110 --> 00:14:47,640 Um, comes an overhead. 390 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,355 I. But the control of that, it makes our lives 391 00:14:50,355 --> 00:14:53,595 easier as agencies as well, that we run the strategy. 392 00:14:53,710 --> 00:14:57,435 We, we will share that, that tactic with them and, and come 393 00:14:57,435 --> 00:14:58,845 up with a content strategy. 394 00:14:59,085 --> 00:15:00,855 But everything comes from that content. 395 00:15:00,855 --> 00:15:04,245 SEO comes from content, paid ads comes from, from content 396 00:15:04,245 --> 00:15:05,805 as well, meta, et cetera. 397 00:15:06,105 --> 00:15:09,285 Um, digital pr, it's all content driven. 398 00:15:09,615 --> 00:15:11,955 Um, we see a lot of brands bringing that in-house, 399 00:15:11,955 --> 00:15:13,335 and I, I applaud that. 400 00:15:13,335 --> 00:15:16,215 I'd say I'd encourage it more and more so, um. 401 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,920 But there's no silver bullet when it comes to, you know, 402 00:15:20,670 --> 00:15:25,170 how do we, how do we de-stress a, an e-commerce entrepreneur? 403 00:15:25,170 --> 00:15:27,570 Well, they, they're either surviving. 404 00:15:27,570 --> 00:15:27,660 Mm-hmm. 405 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,420 Because they, they, some of them, well, a lot of them 406 00:15:30,420 --> 00:15:33,630 have launched post covid thinking they can mm-hmm. 407 00:15:33,630 --> 00:15:36,090 Sustain that level of revenue. 408 00:15:36,210 --> 00:15:36,510 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 409 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,060 Tony Conte: Um, and that's where we give 'em a bit of a reality 410 00:15:39,060 --> 00:15:41,760 check in terms of, okay, you're wasting time in that area. 411 00:15:41,850 --> 00:15:44,640 That's, that's not that, that, that's not focus on that area. 412 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,020 Let's go for the, uh. 413 00:15:46,425 --> 00:15:48,045 Low hanging fruit, as they say. 414 00:15:48,495 --> 00:15:50,085 Um, and the quick wins. 415 00:15:50,865 --> 00:15:51,375 Yeah. 416 00:15:51,375 --> 00:15:53,865 And I, I dare say that, but there are quick wins. 417 00:15:54,015 --> 00:15:54,165 Mm-hmm. 418 00:15:54,165 --> 00:15:55,995 There are quick, there still are quick wins. 419 00:15:56,055 --> 00:15:59,175 And that's a, that comes back down to prioritization. 420 00:15:59,355 --> 00:15:59,655 Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm. 421 00:16:00,375 --> 00:16:00,585 Tony Conte: Yeah. 422 00:16:00,585 --> 00:16:00,675 I 423 00:16:00,675 --> 00:16:02,475 Matt Edmundson: find that actually that, um. 424 00:16:05,475 --> 00:16:07,035 Depending on who you talk to, depends on 425 00:16:07,035 --> 00:16:08,025 where the quick wins are. 426 00:16:08,025 --> 00:16:08,085 Yeah. 427 00:16:08,175 --> 00:16:10,395 So there's no, I can't write a book and say, these are your top 428 00:16:10,395 --> 00:16:13,245 10 quick wins, because it, every business is different, right? 429 00:16:13,245 --> 00:16:13,305 Yeah. 430 00:16:13,305 --> 00:16:14,355 Every business is unique. 431 00:16:14,715 --> 00:16:19,245 Um, but I, I could, I could quite easily write 432 00:16:19,245 --> 00:16:21,285 a book, go, these are the principles of marketing. 433 00:16:21,525 --> 00:16:23,745 Read through this and the quick wins will become obvious. 434 00:16:24,725 --> 00:16:25,745 That, that kind of thing. 435 00:16:25,745 --> 00:16:30,875 It's, um, which I, I, I, I think is, is probably a, a 436 00:16:30,875 --> 00:16:32,615 more successful route forward. 437 00:16:33,245 --> 00:16:33,755 Um. 438 00:16:34,470 --> 00:16:37,800 But I like how you, you talked about, figure out what your 439 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,360 strengths are because I, I have this, um, I have a manifesto, 440 00:16:42,540 --> 00:16:45,000 Tony, because I like manifestos. 441 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,520 Actually, it's just a fancy name for a bit of, a bit 442 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:48,540 of writing that I did once. 443 00:16:49,230 --> 00:16:53,520 Um, where I, I liken most e-commerce entrepreneurs, I call 444 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,860 them digital Davids, you know, the David and Goliath story. 445 00:16:55,890 --> 00:16:56,010 Mm-hmm. 446 00:16:56,250 --> 00:16:59,820 And I, I, I paint Amazon and Walmart as the Goliath 447 00:16:59,820 --> 00:17:02,490 because, you know, I, I can and make them the bad guy. 448 00:17:03,854 --> 00:17:05,444 And David won the battle with Goliath. 449 00:17:05,474 --> 00:17:06,914 'cause he played to his own strengths. 450 00:17:07,604 --> 00:17:07,904 Yeah. 451 00:17:07,904 --> 00:17:10,274 And, and, and one of the questions I get asked, you 452 00:17:10,274 --> 00:17:14,114 know, a lot, and I'm, I I, I appreciate on the podcast, 453 00:17:14,114 --> 00:17:15,794 I use this for, I get asked a lot of questions and you 454 00:17:15,794 --> 00:17:17,834 can you, but this one I do get asked a lot is like, how 455 00:17:17,834 --> 00:17:19,124 do I, how do I beat Amazon? 456 00:17:19,424 --> 00:17:19,754 Right? 457 00:17:20,654 --> 00:17:23,834 Um, and I think actually you've gotta play to your 458 00:17:23,834 --> 00:17:25,844 strengths is is the answer. 459 00:17:25,994 --> 00:17:27,914 You know, you've gotta, you've got, 'cause the one 460 00:17:27,914 --> 00:17:29,414 thing Amazon can't be is you. 461 00:17:30,570 --> 00:17:32,670 No, they can't be you and your brand. 462 00:17:33,030 --> 00:17:33,300 Hmm. 463 00:17:34,380 --> 00:17:36,690 They can't be your, your positioning. 464 00:17:36,690 --> 00:17:38,130 They can't be your brand. 465 00:17:38,850 --> 00:17:41,610 Uh, what you stand for and, and all that sort of thing. 466 00:17:41,610 --> 00:17:43,950 They can't, they, they don't have your values, they don't 467 00:17:43,950 --> 00:17:45,030 have your tone of voice. 468 00:17:45,030 --> 00:17:47,250 They don't have your ability to tell a story. 469 00:17:47,490 --> 00:17:47,880 Yeah. 470 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,790 You know, they're just a big machine which sells stuff. 471 00:17:51,060 --> 00:17:51,360 Yeah. 472 00:17:51,390 --> 00:17:54,210 But you've got stuff that's got a story and so how do you, 473 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:55,470 how do you bring that out? 474 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,170 Um, and so I like what you say, you know, play to 475 00:17:58,170 --> 00:17:59,040 your strengths and, and. 476 00:17:59,729 --> 00:18:02,610 Everyone has to think about content, um, 477 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:03,989 Tony Conte: and brand, you're just hitting nail 478 00:18:03,989 --> 00:18:04,679 on the head as well. 479 00:18:04,679 --> 00:18:08,459 Is the, is I I, I've, I've seen a lot of e-commerce brands now 480 00:18:08,459 --> 00:18:11,459 build, building their brand more so than ever before. 481 00:18:11,459 --> 00:18:14,790 So building the personality, getting that personality 482 00:18:14,790 --> 00:18:15,510 in the forefront. 483 00:18:15,659 --> 00:18:20,310 A huge amount of kind of brands that, um, I'd say 484 00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:24,449 90% of them have come to us and actually they've come 485 00:18:24,449 --> 00:18:25,774 to us thinking, oh, I need. 486 00:18:26,294 --> 00:18:28,604 Paid ads, I need meta, et cetera. 487 00:18:28,634 --> 00:18:28,784 Mm-hmm. 488 00:18:28,844 --> 00:18:32,175 And we've like, no, you need to get your story. 489 00:18:32,264 --> 00:18:32,685 Yeah. 490 00:18:32,804 --> 00:18:36,165 Actually above, I'll call it above the fold. 491 00:18:36,195 --> 00:18:37,094 'cause that was a thing. 492 00:18:37,094 --> 00:18:37,155 Yeah. 493 00:18:37,155 --> 00:18:39,524 But you know, it's not in, you know, they're not 494 00:18:39,524 --> 00:18:41,235 selling their story and Yeah. 495 00:18:41,235 --> 00:18:44,655 Um, there's so much more kind of engagement, um, when it comes 496 00:18:44,655 --> 00:18:46,425 to, uh, consumers these days. 497 00:18:46,425 --> 00:18:48,915 Customers these days that they want us, they wanna know 498 00:18:48,945 --> 00:18:50,324 about the founder of a Yeah. 499 00:18:50,384 --> 00:18:51,614 X brand that Yeah. 500 00:18:51,614 --> 00:18:51,735 Is, yeah. 501 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,950 That came from such and such fashion brand originally, 502 00:18:55,950 --> 00:18:58,620 and they stand for X, Y, and Z. Um, a lot of this 503 00:18:58,620 --> 00:19:01,890 information is hidden on websites sometimes, especially 504 00:19:01,890 --> 00:19:03,030 with the independent brands. 505 00:19:03,030 --> 00:19:06,090 They don't think that actually I need to bring that to the, to 506 00:19:06,090 --> 00:19:08,850 the, to the top, um, as a story. 507 00:19:08,850 --> 00:19:10,410 So, so once you've bought into it. 508 00:19:11,544 --> 00:19:12,774 You are kind of, you're, you're bought into their story. 509 00:19:12,774 --> 00:19:14,514 You bought into them, you're bought into the brand. 510 00:19:14,514 --> 00:19:16,014 You bought into the product, and you, you've 511 00:19:16,014 --> 00:19:17,034 basically bought something. 512 00:19:17,274 --> 00:19:17,544 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 513 00:19:17,544 --> 00:19:18,264 Tony Conte: In the checkout. 514 00:19:18,264 --> 00:19:19,044 Out the checkout. 515 00:19:19,165 --> 00:19:19,405 Yeah. 516 00:19:19,825 --> 00:19:20,065 Matt Edmundson: No, no. 517 00:19:20,065 --> 00:19:20,665 It's totally true. 518 00:19:20,665 --> 00:19:23,125 I'm, I'm with you all the way, and I think, you 519 00:19:23,125 --> 00:19:26,485 know, I, I see a lot of websites which are cookie 520 00:19:26,485 --> 00:19:27,955 cutters, you know that Yeah. 521 00:19:27,955 --> 00:19:29,995 They're a carbon copy of somebody else's in their 522 00:19:29,995 --> 00:19:32,034 market because they feel this is what I need to do. 523 00:19:32,215 --> 00:19:32,365 Yeah. 524 00:19:32,365 --> 00:19:33,865 I mean, we were joking before we recorded. 525 00:19:33,865 --> 00:19:36,804 Can you know, can you build me a bango website for. 526 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,149 Five grand or whatever. 527 00:19:38,149 --> 00:19:39,560 It's like no, just no. 528 00:19:40,010 --> 00:19:40,250 Yeah. 529 00:19:40,250 --> 00:19:42,440 Um, but you kind of have this sense as what 530 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:43,639 my website should be. 531 00:19:43,820 --> 00:19:46,370 Website, uh, website should be Sorry, kids. 532 00:19:46,430 --> 00:19:47,120 The bad ones. 533 00:19:47,235 --> 00:19:47,524 Yeah. 534 00:19:48,980 --> 00:19:49,040 Yeah. 535 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:49,685 They're the bad ones. 536 00:19:49,685 --> 00:19:49,845 Yeah. 537 00:19:49,845 --> 00:19:50,045 Yeah. 538 00:19:51,950 --> 00:19:55,879 But at, at the same time, this, this tension of 539 00:19:55,879 --> 00:19:57,950 brand of your voice of. 540 00:19:58,844 --> 00:19:59,925 Telling your story? 541 00:19:59,925 --> 00:20:03,614 Well, I think I became more aware of it when, 542 00:20:03,735 --> 00:20:05,745 um, Toms became a thing. 543 00:20:05,925 --> 00:20:06,646 Oh yeah, yeah. 544 00:20:07,334 --> 00:20:07,399 Do you know what I mean? 545 00:20:07,399 --> 00:20:10,304 And you, and you looked at that and you thought, wow, blind me. 546 00:20:10,304 --> 00:20:13,394 They, they've, they've managed to use this brand, this story 547 00:20:13,394 --> 00:20:17,774 so well, um, that it kind of threw the world upside down a 548 00:20:17,774 --> 00:20:19,485 little bit, uh, at that point. 549 00:20:19,485 --> 00:20:21,195 And, and I know that there were other brands around at 550 00:20:21,195 --> 00:20:22,754 the time, but that was the one that stood out for me. 551 00:20:22,754 --> 00:20:23,925 I don't know what stood out for you. 552 00:20:25,334 --> 00:20:26,715 So many can't think now. 553 00:20:26,715 --> 00:20:27,915 Actually, you put me on the spot. 554 00:20:27,945 --> 00:20:30,314 Nah, this is what we do. 555 00:20:30,405 --> 00:20:34,004 This is what we Well, let's, um, uh, take you off that spot. 556 00:20:34,004 --> 00:20:36,524 Let's talk about this report that you guys have put together. 557 00:20:36,524 --> 00:20:38,084 2020 x. Tell me about that. 558 00:20:38,475 --> 00:20:42,104 Tony Conte: Yeah, so last year we, we, um, reached out to, 559 00:20:42,135 --> 00:20:45,735 um, CMOs, e-commerce, brand managers, et cetera, and ask 560 00:20:45,735 --> 00:20:49,905 'em to fill out a, a, a survey around their challenges, what 561 00:20:49,905 --> 00:20:51,465 they see next, et cetera. 562 00:20:51,465 --> 00:20:52,905 And, um. 563 00:20:53,115 --> 00:20:55,544 What they see as, yeah, basically what they see as the 564 00:20:55,544 --> 00:20:58,215 next big thing and, and really what they're doing and what 565 00:20:58,215 --> 00:20:59,385 they're not doing, et cetera. 566 00:20:59,385 --> 00:21:03,855 So we collated all this, um, this information together and 567 00:21:04,514 --> 00:21:10,605 the, the general consensus was that everything, everything 568 00:21:10,605 --> 00:21:14,715 seems to be coming from a central piece of work 569 00:21:14,715 --> 00:21:15,675 that they're not doing. 570 00:21:16,064 --> 00:21:18,675 Enough of, but they're aware of, and it's, it's looking 571 00:21:18,675 --> 00:21:21,374 after the, the customer journey and the customer 572 00:21:21,374 --> 00:21:25,455 experience what on whatever platform and the website. 573 00:21:25,455 --> 00:21:28,935 So everyone thinks like customer experience or CX is just the 574 00:21:28,935 --> 00:21:31,574 website, but it's not, it's every single platform basically. 575 00:21:31,665 --> 00:21:31,935 Yeah. 576 00:21:32,024 --> 00:21:36,854 And pretty much everybody knows that they, they knew 577 00:21:36,854 --> 00:21:39,435 they need to increase the customer experience to 578 00:21:39,435 --> 00:21:40,725 increase the conversion. 579 00:21:41,864 --> 00:21:47,504 But they were focused so much on short term wins rather 580 00:21:47,504 --> 00:21:50,354 than looking at the long term strategy, et cetera. 581 00:21:50,354 --> 00:21:50,654 Yeah. 582 00:21:50,745 --> 00:21:53,084 But they know they need to do that, and I think that's 583 00:21:53,084 --> 00:21:56,894 the pressure that, that, that brands, um, are under, you know, 584 00:21:56,894 --> 00:21:59,534 within the report it kind of goes on about what sort of, what 585 00:21:59,534 --> 00:22:00,524 their biggest challenges are. 586 00:22:00,524 --> 00:22:02,205 Where it's, it's, it's. 587 00:22:03,045 --> 00:22:04,875 It's the fragmented of data. 588 00:22:04,935 --> 00:22:06,675 So they're so stuck in data. 589 00:22:06,855 --> 00:22:10,725 They've, they're spending more time in all knee deep in the 590 00:22:10,725 --> 00:22:13,605 data and actually not thinking about the customer experience, 591 00:22:13,605 --> 00:22:16,515 where in actual fact it's, so, it's, it's equally as important. 592 00:22:16,515 --> 00:22:18,285 I, I get data's important, don't get me wrong. 593 00:22:18,285 --> 00:22:22,035 We, we live by it with, with the campaigns that we run. 594 00:22:22,035 --> 00:22:25,095 But that was, that was one fundamental, uh, challenge 595 00:22:25,095 --> 00:22:27,165 that they need to, they know they need to resolve, but 596 00:22:27,165 --> 00:22:29,390 they're not, they're not, they, they're, they're. 597 00:22:29,784 --> 00:22:32,094 They're admitting that they're not doing it fast enough. 598 00:22:32,094 --> 00:22:32,154 Yeah. 599 00:22:32,154 --> 00:22:33,235 They're just not reacting. 600 00:22:33,594 --> 00:22:38,394 Um, so, you know, and game changing kind of insights 601 00:22:38,394 --> 00:22:39,715 that they were thinking of. 602 00:22:39,715 --> 00:22:42,654 You know, the likes of obviously TikTok shop, they, 603 00:22:43,284 --> 00:22:44,814 uh, live shopping as well. 604 00:22:44,844 --> 00:22:44,904 Yeah. 605 00:22:44,904 --> 00:22:46,314 It's something that came up as well. 606 00:22:46,465 --> 00:22:46,675 Yeah. 607 00:22:46,675 --> 00:22:47,995 I believe that as well. 608 00:22:47,995 --> 00:22:49,945 You know, in terms of, I, I agree with that. 609 00:22:49,945 --> 00:22:52,179 I think, um, certain countries out there. 610 00:22:53,159 --> 00:22:55,979 Then China, uh, uh, sort of smashing it from that point 611 00:22:55,979 --> 00:22:57,414 of view, it is coming here. 612 00:22:57,434 --> 00:22:57,854 Mm-hmm. 613 00:22:57,934 --> 00:23:00,809 And it is, you know, basically QVC on steroids online. 614 00:23:00,809 --> 00:23:01,254 It is, yeah. 615 00:23:01,259 --> 00:23:01,350 Yeah. 616 00:23:01,350 --> 00:23:05,309 And I think, um, it's gonna bounce quite high, um, when, 617 00:23:05,399 --> 00:23:07,499 when it really takes off in this, I know it's already 618 00:23:07,499 --> 00:23:09,840 here, but it's, it's, I don't think we've seen, 619 00:23:10,469 --> 00:23:11,759 you know, enough of it. 620 00:23:11,759 --> 00:23:13,174 And I think it's coming and that's the area. 621 00:23:13,354 --> 00:23:13,574 No, 622 00:23:13,574 --> 00:23:15,149 Matt Edmundson: I, I'm, I'm always surprised at how 623 00:23:15,149 --> 00:23:19,350 little it's been done here, considering the success of QVC. 624 00:23:19,949 --> 00:23:20,249 Tony Conte: Yeah. 625 00:23:20,340 --> 00:23:21,539 Matt Edmundson: And considering the success of 626 00:23:21,539 --> 00:23:24,629 live shopping in, in, certainly in Asia, like you say. 627 00:23:24,929 --> 00:23:25,259 Yeah. 628 00:23:25,409 --> 00:23:30,629 Um, and I was always surprised that Instagram never figured 629 00:23:30,629 --> 00:23:32,969 out that if it did live streams, you could, it could 630 00:23:32,969 --> 00:23:34,679 have a buy now button on on. 631 00:23:34,739 --> 00:23:34,979 Yeah. 632 00:23:34,979 --> 00:23:35,084 Do you know what I mean? 633 00:23:35,084 --> 00:23:37,439 And, and you could integrate that somehow with social 634 00:23:37,439 --> 00:23:39,449 selling, which TikTok obviously, you know, they, 635 00:23:39,509 --> 00:23:40,320 they, they've done that. 636 00:23:40,830 --> 00:23:42,419 So there's a few, there's a lot of questions I have, like, 637 00:23:42,419 --> 00:23:43,529 why is this not taken off? 638 00:23:43,529 --> 00:23:46,049 But I, I'm with you in the sense that live shopping, I think. 639 00:23:47,010 --> 00:23:49,260 Is gonna become one of those things, which is more and 640 00:23:49,260 --> 00:23:52,620 more of a bigger deal to the point where I've been talking 641 00:23:52,620 --> 00:23:58,139 to the guys in our team, um, like, can we carve out space 642 00:23:58,139 --> 00:24:01,320 in the warehouse to create a studio, like a live TV studio? 643 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,340 It doesn't have to be big. 644 00:24:02,460 --> 00:24:02,820 Tony Conte: No. 645 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,189 Matt Edmundson: Um, we have pod, a podcast studio, 646 00:24:05,220 --> 00:24:06,149 obviously down there. 647 00:24:06,149 --> 00:24:06,270 Yeah. 648 00:24:06,570 --> 00:24:10,409 Um, and I'm in the podcast studio at my house. 649 00:24:12,179 --> 00:24:15,899 But having a podcast studio and a live TV studio, I think 650 00:24:15,899 --> 00:24:18,720 those two things are fast becoming like non-negotiables. 651 00:24:18,810 --> 00:24:18,870 Yeah. 652 00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:19,709 If that makes sense. 653 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:20,399 Yeah. 654 00:24:20,399 --> 00:24:22,620 Um, but so I'm intrigued that you mentioned that. 655 00:24:22,919 --> 00:24:24,959 Tony Conte: Well, the other aspect as well is if we're, 656 00:24:25,230 --> 00:24:29,354 we're, if we wanna see, um, I. A survival of retail, 657 00:24:29,445 --> 00:24:30,764 um, independent retailers. 658 00:24:30,764 --> 00:24:32,084 Let's just take them for an example. 659 00:24:32,084 --> 00:24:32,985 As an example. 660 00:24:33,165 --> 00:24:36,284 I see no reason why on their slow days, you know, 661 00:24:36,284 --> 00:24:39,165 whether it's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, whatever, that 662 00:24:39,165 --> 00:24:42,735 they shouldn't have a popup in their shop of a live. 663 00:24:42,735 --> 00:24:43,710 I. Piece. 664 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:43,889 Mm-hmm. 665 00:24:44,220 --> 00:24:45,780 You know, out, out the back, et cetera. 666 00:24:45,780 --> 00:24:48,840 That tho those, that those, they can, they can create 667 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,700 that, that commerce mm-hmm. 668 00:24:50,940 --> 00:24:53,310 On those days with their live feeds. 669 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,169 'cause all we're doing with the live feeds is we're 670 00:24:55,169 --> 00:24:56,850 pushing ads to the live feeds. 671 00:24:56,850 --> 00:24:59,070 It's, isn't it, you know, it's as simple as that. 672 00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:59,520 Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm. 673 00:24:59,580 --> 00:25:02,129 Tony Conte: Get a live feed, get an agency, or if 674 00:25:02,129 --> 00:25:04,710 you can do it yourself and promote the hell out of that. 675 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,560 Live feed to that audience, which we know we can 676 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:08,670 get you in front of. 677 00:25:08,790 --> 00:25:08,910 Mm-hmm. 678 00:25:09,150 --> 00:25:10,080 It's a no-brainer. 679 00:25:10,410 --> 00:25:13,350 Um, and for me, if, if it's an independent retail, 680 00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:15,390 it's thinking, okay, these days are really slow. 681 00:25:15,390 --> 00:25:18,510 We had to get that many sales on, on Mondays, well turn it 682 00:25:18,510 --> 00:25:23,400 into a, turn it into a live shop day and just get a, get a cube. 683 00:25:23,940 --> 00:25:26,400 And get filming or get a counter, whatever it is. 684 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,920 It doesn't matter if you sell ice cream or not ice cream, but 685 00:25:29,130 --> 00:25:29,940 you know, it doesn't matter. 686 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,050 It doesn't matter if, no, I'm gonna sell ice 687 00:25:31,050 --> 00:25:32,250 Matt Edmundson: cream and start doing live show and 688 00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:34,320 I'm gonna use it as an excuse for my wife that I have 689 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:35,220 to go and eat ice cream. 690 00:25:35,460 --> 00:25:36,090 Exactly. 691 00:25:36,270 --> 00:25:36,660 Exactly. 692 00:25:36,750 --> 00:25:36,990 Tony Conte: Exactly. 693 00:25:37,710 --> 00:25:39,780 But I think that's, that's an opportunity I think, you 694 00:25:39,780 --> 00:25:42,060 know, for independent, and it doesn't, it wouldn't cost them 695 00:25:42,060 --> 00:25:43,710 that much to kind of get set up. 696 00:25:43,980 --> 00:25:44,190 No. 697 00:25:44,190 --> 00:25:45,180 Especially like you say, 698 00:25:45,180 --> 00:25:46,710 Matt Edmundson: if they've already got a store. 699 00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:46,770 Yeah. 700 00:25:46,860 --> 00:25:49,410 Whereas I don't have a store for my e-comm sites, it's 701 00:25:49,470 --> 00:25:50,520 just a boring warehouse. 702 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,510 I have to build a studio. 703 00:25:51,630 --> 00:25:51,690 Yeah. 704 00:25:52,229 --> 00:25:52,560 You're right. 705 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,629 I, I think for the, for a lot of people, they don't 706 00:25:54,629 --> 00:25:55,769 actually have to do that. 707 00:25:56,085 --> 00:25:56,145 Yeah. 708 00:25:56,655 --> 00:26:00,375 And, um, you can, you can use what you've got. 709 00:26:00,435 --> 00:26:03,075 You don't, I mean, you know, you don't need the fancy. 710 00:26:03,075 --> 00:26:06,075 I was watching a guy who set up a, a a, a YouTube studio. 711 00:26:06,075 --> 00:26:08,115 Spent like quarter of a million quid on the studio. 712 00:26:08,115 --> 00:26:09,975 You're just like, holy moly. 713 00:26:10,635 --> 00:26:12,795 Um, you know, I think you can do everything on 714 00:26:12,795 --> 00:26:14,025 your iPhone these days. 715 00:26:14,649 --> 00:26:16,419 Tony Conte: I think that's, that's, that's a really good 716 00:26:16,419 --> 00:26:19,419 point 'cause I think some of the best raw kind of footage that 717 00:26:19,419 --> 00:26:22,449 you see these days that goes via Royal is off an iPhone anyway. 718 00:26:22,449 --> 00:26:22,929 So 719 00:26:23,229 --> 00:26:24,759 Matt Edmundson: it's interesting, isn't it, how this 720 00:26:24,759 --> 00:26:28,629 sort of, and what works well on TikTok shop and what works user 721 00:26:28,629 --> 00:26:29,979 generated content works well. 722 00:26:29,979 --> 00:26:32,469 It's not polished, it's not like the po I mean these are 723 00:26:32,469 --> 00:26:35,770 just, and you get that best off your iPhone rather than 724 00:26:35,770 --> 00:26:37,419 the 7,000 pound Sony camera. 725 00:26:37,540 --> 00:26:37,870 Tony Conte: Yeah. 726 00:26:37,870 --> 00:26:40,989 It's almost as if it's authentic 'cause you've kind of, it's 727 00:26:40,989 --> 00:26:42,310 a bit raw and it's a bit. 728 00:26:42,885 --> 00:26:43,155 Yeah. 729 00:26:43,155 --> 00:26:45,885 It, it definitely is that, and we've, we've, we've had 730 00:26:45,885 --> 00:26:49,455 a lot of success, um, from, uh, user-generated content. 731 00:26:49,605 --> 00:26:51,465 Um, def it's, yeah. 732 00:26:51,470 --> 00:26:52,965 It, it really works. 733 00:26:52,995 --> 00:26:54,735 It, the, the RO the better. 734 00:26:55,065 --> 00:26:55,155 Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm. 735 00:26:55,455 --> 00:26:56,925 Tony Conte: Because it just looks like it's 736 00:26:56,985 --> 00:26:58,575 not, it's, it's natural. 737 00:26:58,575 --> 00:26:58,635 Yeah. 738 00:26:58,695 --> 00:27:00,825 Um, it's authentic as such. 739 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:01,410 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 740 00:27:01,740 --> 00:27:03,870 I mean, how long that trend lasts for, I have no idea. 741 00:27:03,870 --> 00:27:07,290 But while it's there, use it because you've, chances 742 00:27:07,290 --> 00:27:10,140 are you've got the capacity to do it in your pocket. 743 00:27:10,140 --> 00:27:11,130 Right, exactly. 744 00:27:11,130 --> 00:27:11,790 So get get on it. 745 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:12,600 Exactly. 746 00:27:12,605 --> 00:27:14,580 What, um, what other things did your report bring out 747 00:27:14,580 --> 00:27:15,390 that were interesting? 748 00:27:16,110 --> 00:27:18,750 Tony Conte: Um, well, I, I'll be honest with you. 749 00:27:18,750 --> 00:27:23,790 Everything was it, you know, everything seems to, it kept 750 00:27:23,790 --> 00:27:26,220 pointing, um, to CX really? 751 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,610 Mm. Um, I think, you know that, that it pretty much. 752 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,189 Cemented, you know, that, um, everyone was aware that 753 00:27:35,459 --> 00:27:38,040 lack of content was key. 754 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:38,100 Yeah. 755 00:27:38,129 --> 00:27:42,300 They need to bring content in-house to, to, um, yeah. 756 00:27:42,300 --> 00:27:43,949 To, to, to get the kind of. 757 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,920 To get the control, I'd say. 758 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:46,980 Yeah. 759 00:27:46,980 --> 00:27:47,940 That was, and the brand 760 00:27:47,940 --> 00:27:48,540 Matt Edmundson: voice, isn't it? 761 00:27:48,540 --> 00:27:51,240 The story, the, the tone and all that sort of things, 762 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,380 which you can't outsource. 763 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,300 Tony Conte: Yeah, that was, that was really key. 764 00:27:54,300 --> 00:27:57,870 The, the need, like I said, knee deep in, um, data 765 00:27:57,870 --> 00:27:59,370 was, uh, stifling them. 766 00:27:59,640 --> 00:27:59,910 Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm. 767 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,850 Tony Conte: Um, that was another area as well. 768 00:28:02,940 --> 00:28:05,280 Um, just trying to think off the top of my head actually. 769 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,830 The, the, um, but the, the. 770 00:28:08,425 --> 00:28:10,254 I think the customer experience is everything 771 00:28:10,254 --> 00:28:12,235 and they just, they, I think they were Oh, massively. 772 00:28:12,235 --> 00:28:12,295 Yeah. 773 00:28:12,295 --> 00:28:14,365 All sounded like gutted basically. 774 00:28:14,365 --> 00:28:15,835 That they weren't on top of it. 775 00:28:16,254 --> 00:28:16,615 Yeah. 776 00:28:17,245 --> 00:28:18,955 On top of the customer thinking out, you know, I think the 777 00:28:18,955 --> 00:28:22,135 big thing is it was that the fact that they know they 778 00:28:22,135 --> 00:28:29,245 need to be thinking further ahead for, um, longevity. 779 00:28:29,605 --> 00:28:29,815 Yeah. 780 00:28:29,815 --> 00:28:31,285 And sustainability. 781 00:28:31,825 --> 00:28:33,985 That's, that I think is key, especially for a 782 00:28:33,985 --> 00:28:35,245 brand, you know, that. 783 00:28:36,315 --> 00:28:39,315 Is trying to compete in a, in a saturated market as well. 784 00:28:39,585 --> 00:28:43,754 The only way of doing that is thinking ahead and, um, 785 00:28:43,875 --> 00:28:46,815 you know, showing that, you know, the, the showing that 786 00:28:46,815 --> 00:28:49,635 the brand and the, the, the personality is there. 787 00:28:49,635 --> 00:28:52,395 I think, I think off the top of my head is that, you know, I 788 00:28:52,395 --> 00:28:57,105 think it was, but it was about 60%, um, said that, you know, 789 00:28:57,795 --> 00:29:00,645 customer experience really matters to them the most. 790 00:29:01,725 --> 00:29:04,634 But only about, I think there's only 30% are actually 791 00:29:04,634 --> 00:29:05,684 doing anything about it. 792 00:29:07,725 --> 00:29:08,594 Which is fascinating, 793 00:29:08,594 --> 00:29:08,985 Matt Edmundson: isn't it? 794 00:29:09,225 --> 00:29:09,434 Yeah. 795 00:29:09,644 --> 00:29:12,014 But that's, I think that's a common trait amongst, 796 00:29:12,284 --> 00:29:14,745 um, business people, certainly in e-commerce. 797 00:29:14,745 --> 00:29:14,894 Yeah. 798 00:29:14,894 --> 00:29:15,975 I know what I'm supposed to do. 799 00:29:15,975 --> 00:29:16,514 Are you doing it? 800 00:29:16,514 --> 00:29:16,634 No. 801 00:29:17,505 --> 00:29:18,555 Well, I'm busy, isn't I? 802 00:29:19,275 --> 00:29:19,575 Yeah. 803 00:29:20,010 --> 00:29:22,005 Is, is a, is a reality of it all, you know, and it 804 00:29:22,005 --> 00:29:23,025 Tony Conte: comes from the top as well. 805 00:29:23,025 --> 00:29:26,055 If you've got a financial, um, whoever's in charge of 806 00:29:26,055 --> 00:29:28,725 finance, you know, if you've got the FD breathing down 807 00:29:28,725 --> 00:29:30,945 your neck and like, gotta get more, et cetera, et cetera, 808 00:29:30,945 --> 00:29:34,485 and, and they're trying to fix cash flow with paid media. 809 00:29:34,755 --> 00:29:35,115 Yeah. 810 00:29:35,505 --> 00:29:37,875 That's generally the, but paid media is going up. 811 00:29:38,025 --> 00:29:41,205 So had you have thought about the customer experience and the, 812 00:29:41,235 --> 00:29:43,035 maybe the content, et cetera. 813 00:29:44,025 --> 00:29:45,765 Back back a year ago. 814 00:29:45,765 --> 00:29:46,160 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 815 00:29:46,165 --> 00:29:48,075 It'll be reaping its rewards now. 816 00:29:48,195 --> 00:29:48,405 Yeah. 817 00:29:48,405 --> 00:29:49,935 And that's something that people, that's so true. 818 00:29:49,940 --> 00:29:51,465 You can't, you, you don't, you don't get 819 00:29:51,465 --> 00:29:52,515 that taken away from you. 820 00:29:52,515 --> 00:29:54,375 'cause once you've got built the brand and built 821 00:29:54,375 --> 00:29:55,755 your authority mm-hmm. 822 00:29:55,875 --> 00:29:58,665 Then you've got that stability, then it's about protecting 823 00:29:58,665 --> 00:29:59,625 and growing there again. 824 00:29:59,625 --> 00:29:59,745 Yeah. 825 00:29:59,745 --> 00:29:59,746 Yeah. 826 00:29:59,865 --> 00:30:03,135 Whereas with paid, just throwing money at paid isn't always 827 00:30:03,135 --> 00:30:06,465 just, uh, you know, it's not the silver bullet as such. 828 00:30:06,465 --> 00:30:08,715 It's a bit, it is a bit risky, but don't get me wrong, 829 00:30:08,715 --> 00:30:10,335 it, it absolutely works. 830 00:30:10,785 --> 00:30:11,145 But. 831 00:30:11,314 --> 00:30:13,294 You know, you can't control what Google wants to 832 00:30:13,325 --> 00:30:14,260 charge you for a click. 833 00:30:15,210 --> 00:30:15,600 Matt Edmundson: No. 834 00:30:15,870 --> 00:30:18,000 And it, and you're right, it's only gonna go up. 835 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:18,060 Yeah. 836 00:30:18,180 --> 00:30:21,930 It's never, I, I've never ever gone into it and gone, oh, 837 00:30:21,930 --> 00:30:23,760 we're paying less to Google. 838 00:30:23,790 --> 00:30:27,000 How nice that, that just doesn't, that just 839 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,440 doesn't compute really. 840 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,850 Um, but I, I, I totally get what you're saying around 841 00:30:32,910 --> 00:30:35,220 the customer experience and, and just making, 'cause 842 00:30:35,220 --> 00:30:37,650 again, this is where I think you differentiate yourself. 843 00:30:37,650 --> 00:30:39,780 This is where, um, you. 844 00:30:39,855 --> 00:30:41,985 Become different to Amazon, you become different to your 845 00:30:41,985 --> 00:30:44,715 competitors, is actually that customer experience. 846 00:30:44,985 --> 00:30:45,285 Tony Conte: Yeah. 847 00:30:45,345 --> 00:30:47,295 Matt Edmundson: Um, I mean, I've told the story before on the, on 848 00:30:47,295 --> 00:30:49,365 the podcast, and if you're new you won't have heard the story. 849 00:30:49,365 --> 00:30:52,635 If you're old, you, well, here's a friendly reminder, but um, 850 00:30:53,415 --> 00:30:56,595 I remember when we actually, we had a beauty company, 851 00:30:56,595 --> 00:30:58,905 which I sold a few years ago, but we had a beauty company. 852 00:31:00,254 --> 00:31:02,534 And we were sitting down and we were looking at, we wanted 853 00:31:02,534 --> 00:31:05,325 to understand why customers bought, you know, the average 854 00:31:05,325 --> 00:31:08,445 order value was like 75 quid on beauty products. 855 00:31:08,445 --> 00:31:10,215 Now, of course, I'm a fell, I'm the wrong target 856 00:31:10,215 --> 00:31:11,534 market in, in many ways. 857 00:31:11,534 --> 00:31:13,485 I, you know, I spend four pound 50 and think I've 858 00:31:13,485 --> 00:31:16,575 been overcharged on beauty, as you can tell, right? 859 00:31:17,629 --> 00:31:21,075 So, so the fact that people were spending like 75, 80 quid 860 00:31:21,075 --> 00:31:22,695 just astounded me in many ways. 861 00:31:22,695 --> 00:31:24,254 And, and that was the average and. 862 00:31:24,985 --> 00:31:27,475 We quickly realized that the customer was buying 863 00:31:27,475 --> 00:31:29,394 themselves a gift, a treat. 864 00:31:29,544 --> 00:31:30,654 It wasn't just skincare. 865 00:31:30,654 --> 00:31:32,935 It was like, this is self-care. 866 00:31:32,935 --> 00:31:35,935 This is, um, a, a gift for myself. 867 00:31:35,935 --> 00:31:36,415 This was. 868 00:31:37,104 --> 00:31:38,965 And so we thought, well, wouldn't it be interesting? 869 00:31:38,965 --> 00:31:41,995 And we bought products from all of our competitors to see how 870 00:31:41,995 --> 00:31:43,735 they would, how they turned up. 871 00:31:44,774 --> 00:31:48,014 Every single one of them came in a Jiffy bag, you know, um, 872 00:31:48,014 --> 00:31:50,084 the paled envelopes for those of you who dunno what a jiffy 873 00:31:50,084 --> 00:31:51,465 bag is outside of the uk. 874 00:31:52,064 --> 00:31:55,634 Um, so the, the boxes around the skincare were all bashed up. 875 00:31:56,024 --> 00:31:58,004 Not that I cared because I'm taking the skincare outta the 876 00:31:58,004 --> 00:31:59,114 box and putting it in the bin. 877 00:31:59,774 --> 00:32:02,834 So we, we put the skincare in a box. 878 00:32:02,834 --> 00:32:04,320 I. To protect it. 879 00:32:04,739 --> 00:32:07,379 Um, we stopped wrapping it up in the, you know, the, 880 00:32:07,469 --> 00:32:08,729 the air bubble things. 881 00:32:09,270 --> 00:32:11,010 Um, and we started to use popcorn. 882 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:12,600 'cause a brand, we wanted to be fun. 883 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,100 We wanted to be seen as eco. 884 00:32:14,580 --> 00:32:14,639 Wow. 885 00:32:14,669 --> 00:32:16,620 So we, we thought, well, let's do popcorn. 886 00:32:16,620 --> 00:32:18,149 Took us a while to figure that out. 887 00:32:18,570 --> 00:32:20,340 We wrapped the whole thing in tissue paper. 888 00:32:20,340 --> 00:32:21,989 So it felt like when you opened the box, you, 889 00:32:22,139 --> 00:32:23,459 you were opening a gift. 890 00:32:23,489 --> 00:32:23,909 Do you know what I mean? 891 00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:25,770 We added a bit of extra stuff to the box. 892 00:32:26,189 --> 00:32:28,739 The whole exercise meant that every parcel cost me 893 00:32:28,739 --> 00:32:30,629 another two pence to send out. 894 00:32:31,969 --> 00:32:35,029 But that's when return purchase rates started 895 00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:35,929 going through the roof. 896 00:32:36,289 --> 00:32:36,620 Right. 897 00:32:36,620 --> 00:32:39,709 And it was just, it was just crazy. 898 00:32:39,709 --> 00:32:41,659 And so we were like, well, this is interesting, you 899 00:32:41,659 --> 00:32:44,959 know, because it worked well, because we thought about 900 00:32:44,959 --> 00:32:45,949 the customer experience. 901 00:32:45,949 --> 00:32:46,009 Yeah. 902 00:32:46,249 --> 00:32:48,499 As in what, what, what do they experience? 903 00:32:48,499 --> 00:32:50,840 What, what do we need to help them feel more of? 904 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:50,899 Yeah. 905 00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:53,840 For them to really, you know, connect with our brand. 906 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:53,989 And I, 907 00:32:54,350 --> 00:32:57,199 Tony Conte: and I think whether, you know, if you're, 908 00:32:57,199 --> 00:32:59,360 if you're an e-commerce brand and you're running. 909 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,009 All, all the main channels. 910 00:33:02,100 --> 00:33:07,979 Um, I think if you ask each channel, each channel, um, 911 00:33:08,009 --> 00:33:11,969 head and say what, you know, understand the, if you, if 912 00:33:11,969 --> 00:33:13,860 you're understanding the customer experience and 913 00:33:13,860 --> 00:33:16,199 you, and you are in SEO, you have to, you have to. 914 00:33:16,199 --> 00:33:17,999 And I think if everybody understands what that 915 00:33:17,999 --> 00:33:20,399 customer experience is for that brand, then 916 00:33:20,399 --> 00:33:22,649 everybody can work in Unity. 917 00:33:22,649 --> 00:33:25,769 And it all has this compounding, um, effect. 918 00:33:25,769 --> 00:33:27,269 I think because, you know. 919 00:33:28,604 --> 00:33:30,824 Anybody working in SEO, anybody working in paid 920 00:33:30,824 --> 00:33:33,465 anyone working in social, they should understand right now 921 00:33:33,794 --> 00:33:36,014 that there's an increasing competition all the time. 922 00:33:36,465 --> 00:33:36,644 Mm-hmm. 923 00:33:36,884 --> 00:33:41,354 So understand the customer, 'cause that's gonna 924 00:33:41,354 --> 00:33:42,675 win you more hearts. 925 00:33:43,185 --> 00:33:43,245 Yeah. 926 00:33:43,245 --> 00:33:47,205 You know, um, it's, you know, the rising cost of, of acquiring 927 00:33:47,205 --> 00:33:49,844 sales is getting more, but you know, and again, you can 928 00:33:49,844 --> 00:33:51,644 counter that to a degree by. 929 00:33:52,439 --> 00:33:54,419 Customer experience conversion on our website. 930 00:33:54,629 --> 00:33:54,719 Mm-hmm. 931 00:33:54,959 --> 00:33:57,149 You know, if we can increase that, that's gonna help. 932 00:33:57,479 --> 00:34:02,699 Um, making sure that the customer realizes the 933 00:34:02,699 --> 00:34:04,649 customer all the time, it's the customer in the middle. 934 00:34:04,649 --> 00:34:07,170 But, uh, creating the differentiation as well 935 00:34:07,170 --> 00:34:08,250 with your brand as well. 936 00:34:08,279 --> 00:34:09,060 Is it different? 937 00:34:09,089 --> 00:34:11,250 Is, if it's not, then what's the point? 938 00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:15,600 Um, and yes, you can drive new customers. 939 00:34:16,214 --> 00:34:19,304 You have to be, be really good at customer experience. 940 00:34:19,304 --> 00:34:21,614 'cause you wanna drive those repeat sales back again. 941 00:34:21,645 --> 00:34:21,855 Yeah. 942 00:34:21,859 --> 00:34:22,069 Yeah. 943 00:34:22,094 --> 00:34:24,645 And it's all about sustainable, efficient, 944 00:34:24,645 --> 00:34:26,745 you know, efficient growth. 945 00:34:26,955 --> 00:34:29,145 And that comes back down to knowing the numbers, 946 00:34:29,145 --> 00:34:30,495 really efficient growth. 947 00:34:30,645 --> 00:34:33,404 Um, and the FD at the top then is gonna be happy. 948 00:34:34,215 --> 00:34:37,485 Because, and they can, you can for, you can start to 949 00:34:37,485 --> 00:34:40,290 forecast at least when can't repeat customers, can't you? 950 00:34:40,290 --> 00:34:40,409 Yeah. 951 00:34:40,415 --> 00:34:42,315 You can get a pattern, whereas with no. 952 00:34:42,465 --> 00:34:44,685 If you can't forecast, the fts gonna be like 953 00:34:44,985 --> 00:34:45,884 pulling their hair out. 954 00:34:46,514 --> 00:34:47,835 Matt Edmundson: Well, once you've got the pattern, then 955 00:34:47,835 --> 00:34:50,475 you've, you've created value for the business, right? 956 00:34:50,475 --> 00:34:50,476 Yeah. 957 00:34:50,594 --> 00:34:53,715 So I, I go out, I dunno if you do this to me, but I go and 958 00:34:53,715 --> 00:34:55,154 acquire other econ businesses. 959 00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:55,210 Right? 960 00:34:55,215 --> 00:34:55,395 Right. 961 00:34:55,395 --> 00:34:59,355 So I, I do, I I do that and I'm, I'm, I'm a equity partner 962 00:34:59,355 --> 00:35:00,735 in a number of businesses now. 963 00:35:01,515 --> 00:35:01,995 Um. 964 00:35:02,865 --> 00:35:05,205 We're always looking at, once I get involved, I'm 965 00:35:05,205 --> 00:35:07,544 like, how can I increase the value of this business? 966 00:35:07,605 --> 00:35:07,694 Mm-hmm. 967 00:35:07,935 --> 00:35:08,024 Right? 968 00:35:08,024 --> 00:35:11,595 So if it was sold to whoever from private equity down 969 00:35:11,595 --> 00:35:14,714 to, to whoever, um, how do we maximize the value? 970 00:35:14,714 --> 00:35:20,745 And that predictable cash flow is quite extraordinary. 971 00:35:20,745 --> 00:35:21,944 So if I took a business. 972 00:35:23,055 --> 00:35:27,105 As just a standalone business that sold one-offs, widgets. 973 00:35:27,674 --> 00:35:30,075 It would be worth probably at the moment, if I'm 974 00:35:30,105 --> 00:35:32,565 being totally honest, maybe two or three times ebit. 975 00:35:32,565 --> 00:35:32,895 Right? 976 00:35:33,165 --> 00:35:33,285 Yeah. 977 00:35:33,290 --> 00:35:34,904 It's just that's how you would value a business. 978 00:35:34,904 --> 00:35:37,065 At the moment, it's not what it was at all. 979 00:35:37,875 --> 00:35:39,975 Um, but if I took those same customers, made the 980 00:35:39,975 --> 00:35:42,404 same profit, but did it on a subscription business. 981 00:35:42,404 --> 00:35:42,464 Yeah. 982 00:35:42,464 --> 00:35:44,475 As opposed to a one-time purchase business. 983 00:35:45,045 --> 00:35:47,265 Well, I'm starting to get multiples instead of two and 984 00:35:47,265 --> 00:35:49,335 three, I'm starting to get multiples of four and five. 985 00:35:49,650 --> 00:35:50,340 Do you see what I mean? 986 00:35:50,370 --> 00:35:50,730 Yeah. 987 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,460 So I've doubled the business with, or doubled the value 988 00:35:53,460 --> 00:35:55,440 of the business without really massively increasing 989 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,330 anything else because of that predictable income. 990 00:35:57,690 --> 00:35:57,840 Yeah. 991 00:35:57,900 --> 00:35:59,910 Um, and so no, you, you're totally right. 992 00:35:59,910 --> 00:36:01,800 That whole value side is interesting. 993 00:36:01,890 --> 00:36:03,870 Tony Conte: I mean, I think, I think I read somewhere 994 00:36:03,870 --> 00:36:06,750 that acquiring a new customer pretty much costs cost you 995 00:36:06,750 --> 00:36:10,920 anything for five to, I think five to 25 times more than 996 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:12,240 retaining the current one. 997 00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:12,300 Yeah. 998 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,050 So why would you not invest some time in terms of understanding 999 00:36:16,050 --> 00:36:18,450 your existing customers and trying to flog to them? 1000 00:36:18,450 --> 00:36:19,920 Again, I. And again. 1001 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:20,670 No, you totally would. 1002 00:36:20,670 --> 00:36:24,120 And again and again, I think it's com I think 1003 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:24,839 it's common sense. 1004 00:36:24,930 --> 00:36:26,549 You go into a, you used to go into a shop, 1005 00:36:26,549 --> 00:36:28,380 you'd get a customer, you get a good customer 1006 00:36:28,380 --> 00:36:29,549 experience, you'd go back. 1007 00:36:30,750 --> 00:36:33,240 It's just, 'cause it's online doesn't mean it's any different. 1008 00:36:33,660 --> 00:36:33,750 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 1009 00:36:34,814 --> 00:36:35,084 Yep. 1010 00:36:35,444 --> 00:36:36,285 No, that's very true. 1011 00:36:36,464 --> 00:36:37,064 Very true. 1012 00:36:37,665 --> 00:36:39,645 Tony, listen, but I'm aware of time. 1013 00:36:40,305 --> 00:36:40,515 Oh. 1014 00:36:40,515 --> 00:36:44,234 And it is fast approaching, uh, at the end of our 1015 00:36:44,234 --> 00:36:44,895 recording session. 1016 00:36:44,895 --> 00:36:48,345 So, uh, let me ask you if people wanna reach out, if 1017 00:36:48,345 --> 00:36:49,064 they want to connect with you. 1018 00:36:49,064 --> 00:36:50,895 I think actually people need to go download 1019 00:36:50,895 --> 00:36:52,274 this report, um, yeah. 1020 00:36:52,305 --> 00:36:53,955 Which is on your website, so maybe tell 1021 00:36:53,955 --> 00:36:54,649 people how to do that. 1022 00:36:55,125 --> 00:36:55,785 Tony Conte: Yeah, sure. 1023 00:36:56,055 --> 00:36:59,055 If, um, well, to, to reach out probably the easiest way is, 1024 00:36:59,055 --> 00:37:03,404 um, LinkedIn, uh, just punch in Tony Conte brave agency. 1025 00:37:03,674 --> 00:37:05,654 Uh, be able to see my, my profile. 1026 00:37:05,654 --> 00:37:08,984 I've got a little lion next to my name because 1027 00:37:08,984 --> 00:37:09,944 the lions are brave. 1028 00:37:09,944 --> 00:37:09,975 I. 1029 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:12,580 Matt Edmundson: Is that what it is? 1030 00:37:12,580 --> 00:37:13,089 Little Leo. 1031 00:37:13,089 --> 00:37:13,810 The lions nice 1032 00:37:13,810 --> 00:37:14,170 Tony Conte: and broken. 1033 00:37:14,174 --> 00:37:14,710 That's, that's it. 1034 00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:14,920 Yeah. 1035 00:37:15,580 --> 00:37:19,240 Um, our, our report is, um, you can download the report 1036 00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:23,109 at um, uh, I won't even bother with the www dot 'cause 1037 00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:24,160 that's old school, isn't it? 1038 00:37:24,165 --> 00:37:25,270 It is, but you've done it now. 1039 00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:25,420 Matt Edmundson: So 1040 00:37:25,509 --> 00:37:26,140 Tony Conte: yeah. 1041 00:37:27,430 --> 00:37:29,020 Matt Edmundson: Brave agency. 1042 00:37:29,020 --> 00:37:29,444 There you go. 1043 00:37:29,795 --> 00:37:34,565 It is funny actually, when it comes to using these non-US 1044 00:37:34,685 --> 00:37:39,905 domains like agency do digital, I feel the need to put www 1045 00:37:39,905 --> 00:37:41,945 just to make it really clear to the person in front of me that 1046 00:37:41,945 --> 00:37:43,205 I'm talking about a website. 1047 00:37:43,475 --> 00:37:45,725 Yeah, that's So if it was brave agency.com, you would 1048 00:37:45,725 --> 00:37:48,815 never do it, but because it's brave.agency like Yeah. 1049 00:37:48,930 --> 00:37:51,629 I, I just feel I need to say www. 1050 00:37:51,629 --> 00:37:54,240 Just to clarify, it's a website, just in case you don't know 1051 00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:55,799 that agency is a website. 1052 00:37:55,830 --> 00:37:58,470 I wonder if some people actually know what WWW stands for. 1053 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:02,580 Do you know what I mean? 1054 00:38:02,580 --> 00:38:05,190 We should probably do a, certainly with, uh, I 1055 00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:06,750 should ask my kids, kids. 1056 00:38:06,750 --> 00:38:08,160 What does www stand for? 1057 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,629 I've, I've half of them don't know. 1058 00:38:10,634 --> 00:38:14,505 When was the last time you typed in www dot a search browser? 1059 00:38:14,505 --> 00:38:14,654 No. 1060 00:38:14,654 --> 00:38:15,435 I just don't even remember. 1061 00:38:15,855 --> 00:38:16,129 Tony Conte: When was the last time you used 1062 00:38:16,134 --> 00:38:16,995 the internet there? 1063 00:38:17,415 --> 00:38:18,105 A website. 1064 00:38:18,255 --> 00:38:19,365 Now there's a scary thought. 1065 00:38:19,694 --> 00:38:20,145 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 1066 00:38:20,265 --> 00:38:20,444 Yeah. 1067 00:38:21,404 --> 00:38:23,145 Well, that's a whole, whole nother topic of 1068 00:38:23,145 --> 00:38:23,955 a whole nother podcast. 1069 00:38:23,955 --> 00:38:24,555 It's right there. 1070 00:38:24,555 --> 00:38:27,404 It but Tony, man, listen, it's been great to connect 1071 00:38:27,404 --> 00:38:28,365 and great to meet with you. 1072 00:38:28,365 --> 00:38:31,095 Thanks for coming on and, uh, enjoyed the conversation 1073 00:38:31,095 --> 00:38:33,585 and going down, uh, memory lane a little bit. 1074 00:38:33,674 --> 00:38:34,125 Cheers. 1075 00:38:34,125 --> 00:38:36,134 Uh, with a, another e-commerce dinosaur. 1076 00:38:36,134 --> 00:38:36,884 No, pioneer. 1077 00:38:40,830 --> 00:38:41,490 But there we go. 1078 00:38:41,490 --> 00:38:43,169 What a fantastic conversation. 1079 00:38:43,169 --> 00:38:44,129 Huge round of applause. 1080 00:38:44,129 --> 00:38:44,640 Let's do this. 1081 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:45,089 Yes. 1082 00:38:45,750 --> 00:38:47,399 Massive round of applause to Tony for. 1083 00:38:47,399 --> 00:38:48,180 That's enough applause. 1084 00:38:48,180 --> 00:38:51,270 Uh, massive round of applause to Tony for joining me today. 1085 00:38:51,569 --> 00:38:54,390 Now, be sure to follow the e-commerce podcast wherever 1086 00:38:54,390 --> 00:38:56,520 you get your podcast from because we've got some more 1087 00:38:56,555 --> 00:38:57,955 great conversations lined up. 1088 00:38:58,445 --> 00:39:00,515 And I don't want you to miss any of them. 1089 00:39:00,515 --> 00:39:03,035 And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first. 1090 00:39:03,395 --> 00:39:04,775 You are awesome. 1091 00:39:04,835 --> 00:39:05,735 Yes, you are created. 1092 00:39:05,735 --> 00:39:06,185 Awesome. 1093 00:39:06,185 --> 00:39:08,015 It's just a burden you've got to bear. 1094 00:39:08,375 --> 00:39:09,245 Tony's gotta bear it. 1095 00:39:09,575 --> 00:39:10,355 I've gotta bear it. 1096 00:39:10,775 --> 00:39:11,795 You've got a bear it as well. 1097 00:39:11,915 --> 00:39:12,485 Oh yes. 1098 00:39:12,485 --> 00:39:15,905 Now the E-Commerce podcast is produced by Pod Junction. 1099 00:39:16,830 --> 00:39:19,020 You can find our entire archive of episodes on 1100 00:39:19,020 --> 00:39:20,280 your favorite podcast app. 1101 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,610 The theme song was written by Josh Edmondson, and as I 1102 00:39:23,610 --> 00:39:25,800 mentioned, if you'd like to read the transcript, the show 1103 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,560 notes, all that good stuff, they're available on our 1104 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,260 website@ecommercepodcast.net. 1105 00:39:31,260 --> 00:39:33,510 No www required. 1106 00:39:34,050 --> 00:39:36,510 Uh, and instantly you can also sign up to the newsletter. 1107 00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:37,830 But that's it from me. 1108 00:39:37,830 --> 00:39:39,090 That's it from Tony. 1109 00:39:39,090 --> 00:39:41,130 Thank you so much for joining us. 1110 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,530 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. 1111 00:39:43,830 --> 00:39:44,700 I will see you next time. 1112 00:39:45,090 --> 00:39:45,240 Bye.