Hello, hello, and welcome to the Borealis

experience. I'm your host Aurora, and I'm very happy and

excited to have Robin Ryan Walker with me today, we will be

talking about a very sensitive topic, a topic of adoption and

how being adopted is. Yeah, very, very tough for some people

easier for others. But the search for identity is what

unites pretty much every person on this planet who has been

adopted. And yeah, I'm very happy that Robin is here with

me. He will be walking in the coolies in Lethbridge, and I

have a beautiful view of Mother Nature. They're awesome. And

yeah, he will be talking about his experiences and what he has

to share with us about this beautiful topic. Thank you so

much for making the time and for taking us on a walk with you

today, Robin.

Absolutely. And thank you for inviting me here. I'm happy to

be here. And as I mentioned earlier, this would be my first

podcast that I do speaking on. So maybe not as polished as I

could be.

Yeah, we're not going for polished here. We're going for

raw and honest. So I'm very happy that you're here and I

know you will be shining brightly. I would love to share

with with our listeners hear a little bit about your

background. And as you might know, can imagine, the more you

go into detail, the better it is for people to being able to

relate to you and feel less lonely with their experience.

Absolutely. Okay, well, I'm, I go by Robin. I was I was born

and named Robin in my birth actually. You know, I didn't

really find anything out about that part of my story in detail

until just a couple years ago. Most of my life, you know, I

knew I was born in foothills Hospital in Calgary. 1979. I

knew that I was adopted, I knew that. My parents were still

children, really, they were 15 and 16 when I was born. So they

both were 15 when I was conceived. And, you know, the

world was different than my mom didn't have a lot of support.

And back then, having children that young and out of wedlock,

you know, was frowned upon. So the decision to put me up for

adoption, like made a lot of sense. You know, my adoptive

parents told me when I was young that I was adopted and what they

knew of the circumstances around that. And it all made sense to

me and I didn't consciously feel slighted or unwanted or

anything, you know, I had a pretty normal upbringing for the

time. I've lived in Lethbridge since kindergarten age. Maybe

the year before that. See, you know, my experience that way was

was pretty normal. And it never even really occurred to me, like

to look for my birth parents. Until I found out I was going to

be a father. You know, and that didn't happen until I was 30. So

at that point, I applied You know, one of the provincial

buildings here in the city, photos and paperwork and you

know, while later I got a, an envelope in the mail with some

mostly redacted documents, that didn't really tell me much more

than I already knew at that time. And sometime after that, I

think it was maybe a few years after that, the laws in Alberta

changed to the to for adopted for a season. And parents have

adopted children, where they could apply for information and

there would be more available to them without the consent of the

other party. So at that time, you know, I reapplied and, and

I, I got some more documents, less redaction, so I can't

remember exactly, but I think I found out my mom's name at that

point. And actually I did. And you know, this was around 20.

Around 2012, I think 13. And so I looked in the Calgary

phonebook. So I found that my last name, or her last name is

pronto. And although I didn't know how to pronounce it at that

time, because I just read it. And I looked in the Calgary

phonebook and there was like, three pages worth of Toronto's.

So I wasn't about to start calling them, you know, it just

seemed like No, I mean, for what, what possibly could have

been nothing. And I believe I looked on Facebook, and I didn't

find anything, and you know, maybe just did a Google search

or whatever. And, and that was that and kind of left it alone.

Shortly around that time, I had my second child, and then a year

and a half after that, my, my third and last child. And again,

it was, you know, it was nice to know the information I had, and

I didn't really think too much of it. And then early 2019, I

was recently separated, and I got laid off and, and I decided

to take the month of February off. And I considered you know

what something I put off for a while and so, so one of the

things associated with my birth, I guess is that I was my mother

is matey. And when I was younger, I had matey status, and

I, I use that to gain some to access some funding for college.

And back in about 2004 2005. And then sometime after that, I'm

not sure if it was the provincial government or if it

was the matey nation, or who but they

updated the requirements to obtain matey status in Alberta.

And part of the requirements now included genome genealogical

information, which again in my situation I didn't have. And so

for a while there, I lost that status. And so, in February, I

decided, well, that's maybe something I'll look into, like

see if I can find things out there. So I went down to the

local matey office in Lethbridge, you know, told the

lady my situation and she instructed me to come back the

next day that there'd be a woman there that we could go through

some genealogical records and see what we could find. And so

the next morning, I was as I was sitting, having breakfast, and I

had my snack, or my two folders anyway, and I was leafing

through my documents. And you came across the document with my

mother's name on it, and had my phone there. So I opened up

Facebook, you don't type your name in, and this time she was

there. And I clicked her profile a little bit just to confirm

before I reached out to her and then as I was looking at her

profile, I saw there was a woman listed as one of her sisters.

And so I decided to reach out to her instead. And I can't

remember exactly what I told her I still have the message on my

phone though if I want it to go back to it. And her initial

response to me it wasn't like a you know, what are you talking

about or whatever so I knew that I was on the right track there.

And so she got in touch with my mom who was at work and then she

got back to me and and you know, my mom and I started texting

through Facebook messenger from there. And later on that week,

we talked on the phone and then made arrangements to meet in

person so I I found out that she was living in wood Duke and I

had two younger sisters. And one of them two nephews, and a whole

bunch of cousins. You know, five aunts two uncles, one who passed

a couple years prior. And yeah, so in mid February, I took my

oldest son up to Edmonton to West them into mall and we did

the waterpark and a little bit of shopping and then then we

went and met my mom and one of my sisters and my nephews for

dinner that night. My youngest sister was living in Red Deer at

the time and she couldn't make it up but we were able to

connect with her on our way back to Lethbridge at the end of the

weekend, so yeah, I guess you know, meeting her meeting my

sisters. It was just It just felt really normal like it felt

like home right like I just I connected with them pretty

easily we we you know had things in common perspectives you know

my one sister talking about like raising children and we had a

lot of same ideas and and I brought up a bunch of childhood

photos and stuff with me so we were all going through pictures

and my mom and you know pulled out a bunch of pictures so you

know a lot of the genetic resemblance was apparent right

between like my children or me when I was young and and my

sister's and nephews and aunts and uncles and all that so that

was it was really positive experience for me and and then

it opened up a lot for me that I've been carrying all that time

that I didn't realize consciously right because

there's a lot of stuff that gets in there unconsciously

especially like I was adopted right from birth. So you know, I

found out a lot of these a lot of these details obviously after

meeting my mom, and so she she was living in BC when I was

conceived and when she found out she was pregnant, she moved to

Calgary and she was attended a school for unwed mothers which

you know, again speaks to the time that we were in back then.

And you know, she was in the hospital for some time after I

was born because she was so young and she wasn't permitted

to pull me or anything right like she she'd come she'd come

to the nursery and look at me but other than she told me there

was one time that nurses couldn't get me to stop crying

and she was there and and they let her hold me for a little

while and I stopped crying right of course but you know for for

an infant you know to consider nine months and mom's belly you

know I can hear her heart I can hear her voice I can hear the

people that she's with

and then you know the first day come out into this world and all

that like she's just gone right like I there's no I mean again I

don't know all the specifics but for me to think of my own

children and and what I know from from raising them and and

you are so so far successfully I think and you know I can't

imagine what it must have been like for infant me to just she's

not there right and sure you know my my basic needs were

attended to buy nurses but it's it's not the same at all right

so there was definitely stuff that I was carrying in my body

you know trauma from that experience that I wasn't aware

of. And even now I'm still processing

Wow, thank you so much for for sharing this with us and

especially the last part of what you said that so like I can

imagine when you hear that story and I would say like physical

touch is basic need that that you haven't received this in the

first couple of weeks after you were born made you feel very

like vulnerable but at the same time also maybe helped you to

make sense of of how you feel and perceive life. I don't know

now after you realized Okay, you were deprived of physical touch

and closeness with your mom can you like see what it did you

like when it comes to physical touch? Are you extremely needy

now? Or? Or is physical touch something that is very difficult

for you to receive? Like on that level of connecting with people

do you notice that it did some damage to you?

I mean now I'm in I'm in a pretty good space, you know,

I've done I've done a lot of work, you know, as we call it,

and I wouldn't say it's impacting me much in the

present. But if I look at my younger years, especially like

my young adult years, I you know, I was I related very

superficially to people to women in particular. And I wouldn't I

wouldn't say physical touch was like difficult or a problem or I

don't know that I was necessarily needed, but

definitely like a lot of very short superficial, primarily

sexual relationships. As a young adult,

yeah. And it can be connected to that. It doesn't have to be, but

it certainly can. And how was it for you during your teenage

years? And you you're your 20s? Did you have a longing, like a

search for identity more than others? Because I know that a

lot of people who are born in a family with their dad and their

mom, they go through the same thing. They don't know who they

are, they feel like they're very different to their siblings and

parents, and they have to find themselves. Was it, like, more

intense for you than for others knowing that you were adopted?

Or was it not really a thing? conscious?

Yeah, well, I mean, obviously, I can only speak to my experience,

which makes it somewhat difficult to compare and

contrast with what others experiences might have been.

From what I can imagine, I don't for me, like I remember one time

meeting, one of my dads I can't recall was a friend or an

acquaintance or a business associate or what, but, you

know, my adopted dad, and he said something like, you know, I

mentioned that I was a son, and he's like, Oh, yeah, I can see

the resemblance. And you know, and in my mind, I'm like, what,

I don't know what you're seeing, but it's not fucking there, man.

Yeah, there's no resemblance. There's nothing right. And

that's just it. Right? So it's all my family, like there was.

We didn't have a lot in common, right. Our interests are like,

the things I was curious about. They didn't have those same,

like my two older sisters that were both also adopted. And I

knew that, you know, it was easy to understand that, yeah, we

don't have these things in common because we aren't related

in that way. Right now. It doesn't mean like, you know,

it's not like we never did things together. We did you

know, we play board games and, you know, have movie night and

whatever, just like anybody else. But when it came to the

things that I was really curious about, and I really liked

spending my time with, like, I was inside of my family, I was

mostly alone in that, and I was okay with it, too. Like, I I

kept my own counsel, I, I was pretty okay with, like, a being

by myself. Now. That's not to say that I spent all my time by

myself, like I had friends growing up. And I, I certainly

spent a lot of time you know, at the park and over a friend's

places and all that sort of stuff. But again, a lot of those

relationships were were fairly superficial, right? I never

really got into the stuff that really mattered to me with

anybody. You know, I never really like express things that

upset me, or, you know, if I got bullied at school, I didn't

bring that home. And maybe that's why, you know, maybe it's

I just didn't want to bother my parents with it. Maybe it's, you

know, who knows? For sure. But I can imagine that that had an

impact instead of all of that, right, like just being left

alone. So early. It just kind of carried through. And it was just

normal for me to just think it out by myself, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And to feel like yeah, you have to struggle

through life when it gets difficult by yourself and you

can't rely on other people or maybe other people are not

really trustworthy. Yeah, it's, it's when I read your post, like

a couple months ago, I felt so attached because yeah, you just

picture that little baby that's crying for intimacy and for

physical touch, or for whatever the mom could provide. And it is

cut off of that source of love and holy shit like it's, it

really gave me goosebumps, and I felt Yeah, it was so powerful of

you to share this with the world with the Facebook world and, and

that you made yourself so vulnerable. So I have so much

respect for you. And I feel that it can help a lot of people out

there to, to know that when you realize something like that when

you hear news like this, and you share this with the world then

people can connect with you on a deeper level. They can

understand you and be closer to you. After you posted this post

Did you have like lots of feedback from people

Yeah, I mean, there was, there was public feedback on the post

and, and some people did reach out to me and, and some, like,

you know, after the fact just in conversation would mention what

they got out of it or, you know, I'm discovering more and more

people that I know that were adopted that I didn't know,

right. And it's not necessarily something you go around asking

people particularly as adults, right? Yeah.

Yeah. If you were to speak to someone who still hasn't found

their parents, and they feel that longing for yet to know who

they are that search for identity, did you come up with

tools over the years, like before you met your, your

family, your biological family that helped you out that made

you feel safe and understood? I know last time we talked and

walked around, we talked about astrology. Is there is there

other sources that you like, Did you go to counseling or any,

like anything, you can think of books or whatever you could

recommend to somebody who is still feeling like something is

missing in their life, because they're not connected to their

biological family?

If I look back on my life, you know, I kind of fumbled through

it all really. And I see the first, like, major work that

well, I guess, one turning point for me would have been right

around young adulthood, right, somewhere like 1718. You know,

as a teenager, I lead I read a lot of fantasy I read some like

David eddings, Robert Jordan, Terry was, you know, like,

dragons and sorcery and, and, you know, fantasy type novels

and a bit of sci fi as well. And, and then when I was around

1718, I can't remember the exact circumstances around it. But I

came across this book, I think it might have been one chapters

open the left bridge, I'm not sure. Anyways, it was called

seven life lessons of chaos. And I think, around the same time, I

kind of come across chaos theory and like the idea of fractals

and the Mandelbrot set, and I was fascinated by it. And so I

read the book, I didn't memorize the seven life lessons, so I can

wrap them off. One of them was about like butterfly power. And

you know, the idea that if a butterfly flaps its wings on one

side of the world does it cause a tornado on the other side of

the world, and so just the idea of like, all these independent,

you know, kind of feedback loops that can build into something

greater, even though they're not specifically organized to do

that. And also the different ways that we kind of reinforce

like, the status quo, through all of our little, you know,

individual, and yet collective actions of, you know, putting

the open sign in the window, and, and, you know, wanting to

work and all that. So, so that was interesting. And from that

book forward, I, like kind of stopped with fiction, I found

reading about the real world to be far more interesting, because

it was, it mattered. It seemed like to me, whereas stories were

fun, but I had a good one, while I didn't even really watch much

TV. Other than, like, documentaries and stuff, so I

did a lot of just like, learning about the world, worrying about

how my mind works, learning about how my body works,

learning about how society works, and psychology and

different cultures. And, you know, I was raised Roman

Catholic. So, you know, religion was something that I was curious

about, and, you know, so being raised Roman Catholic, I was

presented with that. And then in the making sense of it, you

know, I wanted to look at Well, what do other people believe,

right? What do other religions teach and, and then looking at,

like the commonalities To me, that's where we could find

truth, right? Like if there's, if all of these different

religions that, that were developed in all these different

areas of the world, all speak about certain things in common,

like, that's what matters all the rest of it's just, you know,

bullshit that this or that leader put in there to control

or whatever it might be. And I've since come to apply that

same sort of idea to the kind of other things I've been studying.

But so I guess, you know, just kind of went off on a tangent as

far as your question goes, but I think for any individual and

their search for you know who they are, I guess, you know,

part of that might involve and external, like, find out what

you're interested in right? Find what you're passionate about

find out what really kind of pulls you forward. And then from

there, maybe you can reflect and take it in, right and look

inside. So, so that would have been the first thing that kind

of got me going. But really through my 20s, I was a heavy

drinker and, you know, partied a lot and didn't really do much

for my future during that time other than to experience things.

And my my oldest son, Steven, so his mom, my relationship with

her was really quick all around. I was 28, when we met, I didn't

know she was 18. I thought she was like, early 20s, she didn't

realize I was so old either. So it wasn't until after we like

started dating that we both found out we were 10 years

apart. And you know, it wasn't long after that, that Steven was

conceived and, and then he was born, and then we got married.

And we made it just over a year. And then we separated and

divorced. And, and that was not a great experience. But through

it, I definitely like for me, it was like, Okay, well. Why did

this happen? Right? What did I do wrong? What Why did I behave

the way I did you know, if that's not wasn't my intention,

or what I was committed to. And

I had the luck or, you know, if you want to call it that of

meeting, a gentleman that introduced me to, ultimately the

work of Werner erhard landmark worldwide. And so, over the

course of that, the following year, I did a bunch of personal

development programs offered through landmark and developed a

greater I don't wanna say understanding, but that's all

it's coming to me this time, but, you know, understanding of

kind of how we perceive and see and interact with the world,

through like, filters that have been put in place over time,

based on stories that we tell ourselves, because of the

experiences we've had, you know, so for, like, one story that I

might have had, since infancy would have been something like

that I don't matter or that I'm alone, or, you know, something

of the abandonment sort of flavor. One, so, yeah, so doing

that work, you know, enable me to, to be able to examine my,

well, first of all, to be aware of my filters, and then to be

able to examine them and eliminate them really, right.

Because once once you're aware, it's easier for stuff like that

to be disappeared. Whereas a lot of people aren't aware that

they're operating with these filters in place. And so

therefore, they, they think and act like they're perceiving

reality directly, and that they're dealing with reality as

it is objectively, when really, it's, you know, highly

subjective and, and that's why of course, they can't understand

why that person thinks this and this person thinks that and so

on and so forth. Whereas when you can see your filters and are

able to dismantle them, then you can also see, you know, be aware

of the filters that other people are operating with, and not that

it's my place to do anything about those, but just to be

aware that they're there and that, you know, I can maybe be

patient and, and compassionate understanding with these people

and, and in my dealings with them. And so yeah, so that, you

know, highly recommend landmarks work, it's great, it's not a

call. That's all I'm gonna say about it. But there's definitely

other all sorts of other work out there. I did do some I think

it's a lot like EMDR therapy at one point. I'm not really sure

how effective that was because I I got booked in for it before I

did the landmark programs, but I actually did it after so I feel

like the program is moved a lot of stuff in the in the in

between time that when I was doing a therapy, the therapist

even noted like, you know, you don't really seem to need this.

So that was kind of interesting to me. And then after that, more

recently, so when I separated my littles Mom, I would have been

early 2019 late that year. You know, the works definitely not

logical, like smaller stuff that I've read and understood

So, Robin one second. Connection is not on the mic is not really

good anymore.

Okay, I think the winds picking up here. Yeah, now it's okay.

Yeah, there's, there's like a breeze pick it up. So maybe

I'll, I'll stick around here.

Yeah, this is perfect. Thank you.

Okay, sorry, sorry. Yeah, no, no, no, that's, that's all

right, the better better than me to go on at length and, and all

you hear is the wind so but yeah, the work we did, like I

said it's just, I don't want to get into trying to explain it

too much because even now I don't really understand but I

but I do understand enough to know that like, there's a lot

going on in our bodies that, you know, Western science still

can't explain. And we know this. And you know, we hold just like

emotion and things that we haven't processed somewhere

somehow, you know, in our bodies and different organs. And it's,

it's not all mental stuff, like, a lot of people think, and, and

sometimes even just like, kind of playing out a scene. And like

witnessing and seeing and hearing things can shift a lot

of stuff, even though it's not actually like real, right? Like,

I don't have to necessarily sit down and have this heart to

heart with my birth mom or dad or whoever. But you can almost

fake it. So that the body is like, then able to release

whatever it's been holding on to.

Yes, yes. Ah, this is such a precious work. Also, when you

think about breakups and finding closure. A lot of people feel

like they can't find closure if they don't talk to the person

anymore, or finding closure with somebody who passed or something

like that. So it's very precious work. Wow. And how's it called

again?

Absolutely. I'm not really sure. I think I think it's worth

doing.

Yeah, it wasn't really, my introduction to it. Everything

wasn't really that formal. I just saw she was posting some

interesting stuff on Facebook and, and started hanging out.

Yeah. Very, very cool. Thank you so much for sharing. Man, we're

coming to an end here already. We have a couple minutes left, I

would like to ask you one last question. What was the the first

like question that you had for your mom that really helped you

to connect with her? When you met when you reconnected with

her? Do you remember?

I don't know if there was like a specific, you know, q&a, it was

just kind of a we met for dinner and had a conversation and, and

inside of that, all of that. I guess just to add, it's like he

just thinking about, like, how it was for her. And like, being

that baby and being born and stuff, like it's still triggers

emotion for me. Which tells me I'm still processing right and,

and so sometimes they'll sit in a little bit and then you know,

it can be uncomfortable. And I'll leave it alone for a while.

But it's there. And anyway, so. So yeah, like really hearing

like her story of, of all of that, right? Like how it was for

her when she was pregnant. And just to just to think about

like, the decisions the choices she was faced with. And how

difficult that must have been. Yeah, and like, you know, what

she wanted for, for me and and for herself. And and she

couldn't see like that she could do it. And so she did what she

felt was best for me and and it was, yeah, and it was best for

her and you know, my sisters and everything. But because of the

way like our system deals with these things, that's really

where the trauma came in. Like I think that we could do adoption

in a way where you know, these babies aren't left with this

traumatic experience, but i don't know i mean that it takes

a lot more compassion than what the system offers today.

Oh my god. Yes, yes. This is like so touching. I wish I could

give you a hug right now and say nothing but we're just meeting

over zoom. So I hope you can feel a virtual hug and and I

appreciate your soul. Deeply your story is heard and you

matter. So much like your story and to share this the way you

did is so precious. And to see and feel how much compassion you

have for your mother really shows that you are living from

the heart, you know, you don't live and walk around like a

victim and make excuses. You face reality. And you face the

situation with grace. And you have so much compassion for her

situation for for another human being out there. And yeah, I

have so much respect for you. And thank you so much for making

the time and walking with us in the coolies. I deeply like

appreciate all of this. Thank you so much.

You're welcome, Aurora. And thanks again for having me. It

was my pleasure.

Thank you so much for listening to the conversation I had with

Robin. And yeah, if you have any questions and want to reach out

to him, I have his link to his Facebook Messenger here in the

show notes. I hope we brought a lot of value into your life. And

yeah, if you haven't subscribed to this podcast yet, please

subscribe. And if you want to leave us a review, share your

thoughts with us. Thank you so much and I will be out there

very soon again. Bye bye.