19_Some People Care More Part 1

[00:00:49] Matt: hey everyone. Welcome back to another episodewe are with Airboss Dan today. Um, Daniel is famous on Instagram for taping houses currently works with Proclimer, more on the technical side of things. Is thatcorrect?

[00:01:01] Dan: technical product development.

[00:01:03] Matt: But we're not, we're not today. We're not here to talk with Daniel about, ProClimber. We actually just want to know about Daniel himself, he's from Germany, um, if you can't tell with the accident, uh, first come here in 2019. but, oh, hello to you Hamish as well.

Sorry, I forgot that part.

[00:01:17] Hamish: I've been sitting here thinking to myself, like, am I going to be part of this podcast today? Or am I just going to sit here and look pretty again?

I

[00:01:25] Dan: did you invite yourself as a big question?

[00:01:28] Matt: I'm just excited to chat with Dan today. I just, I'd almost forgot

[00:01:32] Hamish: is not the first time that you forgot about me, Matt. So let's you know, I might just chime in when I feel is appropriate.

[00:01:37] Matt: you'll just go fuck yourself, essentially.

[00:01:39] Dan: I just can bounce the ball backwards and forwards. so

in the past, I got in trouble a few times because people don't understand my sarcasm, German sarcasm, because sometimes I just throw out a joke without even changing my, my gestures. And then people think, Oh, what an fucking idiots.

And then, so you guys can translate it. Then.

[00:01:59] Hamish: it actually makes it even harder given this is predominantly an audio recording. So they can't even pick up on any body language. So please fill this full of German sarcasm.

[00:02:11] Dan: yes, Bavarian, German sarcasm.

[00:02:13] Matt: Dan has also bought some show and tell for today's video chat, which we will do our best to sort of show you what he's brought and we'll get to that later. But Dan, you first come here 2019 What was your first original thoughts about Australian construction?

[00:02:28] Dan: Oh, shocking. The first time was actually 2013 when I was traveling with my ex girlfriend as a, as a backpacker. And back then I already was a German master carpenter and construction engineer, where I think we're going to talk about later what exactly what it is and what it means, but it means kind of this stage, I was already quite high educated and I thought, Oh, I'll come over to Australia and everyone's going to be brilliant.

Happy about to get some Daniel advice. So I was very overly self confident and it didn't take a whole week and I got teached a better way. So, I started to work on a small joinery and even a trust factory laid on where I was working. I was just nailing together trusses or wall frames on the easiest way.

But I was questioning everything. And even the, the trust manager or the manager of the factory, because I questioned everything. So Danny, you're not here to think. Just do your job.

[00:03:19] Matt: And how did you take that?

[00:03:21] Dan: I hate it because I was terrible in apprenticeship because every time when my, my boss also came to me and said, Daniel, do it. And I was asked why, because I tried to understand it. And if everyone said, Daniel, quiet, just do your job. I never accepted it. So I was a bit, I was a troublemaker.

[00:03:37] Matt: I'm shocked. So shocked, really?

[00:03:41] Dan: It was fine. If they just said, uh, Daniel. There's no time to talk. Now, explain it later. Then it's fine. Then I'm the last person and I don't want to do it.

[00:03:48] Matt: now? Let's go back. Master carpenter. Let's explain that

to anyone who doesn't know what

that is.

[00:03:53] Dan: When you study apprenticeship the first year is actually full time school.

So you don't even go much on site in the first year, spend maximum four weeks on the building site, five weeks. Plus the school holidays, if you want to work in your company. But the idea is that you learn all the theory and the basics about the material timber, um, mathematics building. Basics of building physics, very basics, but general how to work with your tools.

So the first year you spend two and a half days a week just with your hand tools, building models and working with your hand tools and hand tools means no power tools. You're not allowed to use a skillet saw and nothing else.

[00:04:29] Matt: So then what?

[00:04:30] Dan: Then in year two, then you spend around 60 percent in your companies. We actually, Work and your company and that teach you what's actually happening in real life. And then when you go back to school, it's actually split it up into ways. So theoretically, and then, Practical parts also where you actually go more into the practical appliances and around January of your second year, this is when you have a specific course where you really get teached

[00:04:56] Hamish: Feels as if the apprenticeship or, or becoming a carpenter is like almost a really highly considered career path. I kind of feel like. a lot of people that end up as a carpenter in Australia, and I'm totally putting like a broad brushstroke on a lot of people in trades here, kind of feel like they're going into it because maybe university wasn't for them, or they think that they're not smart enough to do anything else.

And the trade seemed to be like a bit of a cop out, which in my opinion is not truth at all. But I feel like in Germany, it's almost a highly prized career. Is, Is,

that right?

[00:05:32] Dan: yes and no. that's a good question because it definitely is not true. if you talk about Dan, because I actually, I didn't want to be a carpenter.

So my dream was always being a pilot. And so of course I had the basic education level, so there was no chance for me getting a pilot. So I thought, okay, I have to finish

apprenticeship. Then you can go back to school to get you a level degree. So you're actually able to study to being a pilot. So that was always my career plan because I was always dreaming to be a pilot. My first choice was actually being a car mechanic and I couldn't get a job as a car mechanic. I did an internship as a mechanic also.

So I said, okay, the second best choice was actually, okay, carpenter. And the company I was having an internship with, I called the guy and said, Hey, Martin, I would like to do an apprenticeship with you. And he just responded, I think I remember you didn't like being a carpenter.

I don't think you're going to be a good choice because you're not motivated at all.

So now, sorry.

[00:06:31] Hamish: this is probably not a not a, not a question I thought I was going to ask you, but like, do you

regret your career path

[00:06:37] Dan: No, no, that's what I, what's what I go into coming in. That's what you're going to come to

So it means kind of always thought like exactly what you're seeing is like trades is a little bit on the lower end and like academics and pilot is, so I always had the feeling like I have to be up there. So I started my apprenticeship and like when I was dropping off my, my CV, I was on the way, it was raining.

I think I black leather, uh, leather jacket on, on my inline, inline skates, because I haven't had a bike at

this time. So I think it was 15 kilometers on the lens.

[00:07:13] Matt: the

[00:07:13] Dan: On the roads, I was soaking wet and I just dropped off my CV and said, yeah, okay, let's give it a go. So every normal thinking person would say, man, this guy is a clown.

So no chance at all. So he gave me a chance, which is funny enough. And I had my own building sites in the second year already, which is not as common in Germany. If you really run your completely on building sites, smaller ones, but still I had the whole responsibility of the whole package. My benefit was that I always was interested.

And you can motivate me. So I was very lucky that I had very, very smart chippies around me who trained me and really have been very, very picky. So sometimes if it was a millimeter off and I was traveling, I traveled in the house, when we did build stairs and stair building, and we talk about 0. 2 millimeters.

Most people will laugh about it, but if there was a gap between 0. 3 millimeters, I was in trouble. So that's why I got in. And a very, very important part is also is.

[00:08:11] Matt: up the

[00:08:12] Dan: When you're a trainee, specifically as a carpenter, you learn to be actually proud of what you're doing. So it means we have this traditional carpenter clothing.

So I'm pretty sure, you know, that like the, one of the guys in Tessie called me always as a fancy pants with a double zipper.

So that's actually traditionally, carpenter clothing for hundreds

of years

[00:08:31] Matt: And they wear that on site.

[00:08:32] Dan: it on side.

Yes.

[00:08:34] Matt: It looks so

uncomfortable

[00:08:35] Dan: The pants are awesome specifically because they're thin, a thin cord, a thick cord.

So specifically in winter, they keep you warm, a bit uncomfortable in summer, but you have shorts on anyway, so it's fine, but you have Two pockets for your rulers and other stuff. And cause you don't need a tool belt.

[00:08:49] Hamish: we're on the topic of the clothes And I don't know, maybe we can try and integrate a picture of what that actually looks like somehow. It's far beyond my pay grade here,

but some from the tour first year,

exactly. Think Oktoberfest and that's what they're wearing. Is that something that everybody gets or is that something that you get when you become a

master carpenter?

[00:09:10] Dan: no, that's when you get a carpenter. cause like very often in Australia, you just

have normal shorts or swimmers on when you go inside.

[00:09:16] Hamish: let me ask you this did you have a moment when you walked onto an Australian building site, particularly in summer, and one of your colleagues was, uh, running up a

ladder,

[00:09:26] Dan: Oh, that's just a letter.

[00:09:27] Hamish: you might have

had something dropping on your

head. You don't get that with, we don't . See Mady laughing here.

He knows what I'm

talking

[00:09:34] Matt: I've got so many inappropriate jokes to say right now.

[00:09:38] Dan: yes, I think specifically 2013 when it's all the first time I was quite shocked. Yes. But the funny thing is if you would show up that way on a German building site as a carpenter, no chance.

Now it's

[00:09:48] Matt: You get your balls chopped up.

[00:09:49] Dan: not a ball shop, but it would just say, what is this guy? Because you take what we do very, very serious.

that's why we present ourselves to be a carpenter. And that's when we go to the Oktoberfest. I think we all enjoy talking about the Oktoberfest. Actually, I miss it quite a bit.

[00:10:03] Hamish: tradition holds true here then, so you are saying that everyone on October Fest, that is wearing leader housing is, is a

carpenter.

they're, they're all carpenters.

[00:10:12] Dan: Yes. No. So traditionally there was always, it's called the bricklayer Monday. So it was always the second Monday of the Oktoberfest and there was a traditional trade day. And if you talk about 40, 50 years early on, actually all the trades came in their tradition clothings because like the carpentry pants, it's relatively similar for, for brickies, for join us.

So every trade, all trade, they had their own style. And they all went in the oldstein clothings, Clifft. This is how they went of the October festival. Have been proud to show, um,

, what traits they belong to. and we always, even from the first year, we went on to October Fest and with the traditional dress full on. And the funny thing is we save a lot of money because everyone's inviting you and said, oh, you're living a tradition. It's so awesome. But it's very, very rare these days. It's slowly getting better,

but with the letter holes and also like, it's a fun fact, but it's actually not that. Traditional to go with the letter also at the Oktoberfest. It just really came the last 40, 50 years.

[00:11:08] Hamish: is that something that us Westerners have just kind of, well we're all Westerners, but us Australians have, uh, kind of thought is the right thing

to wear at Oktoberfest.

[00:11:18] Dan: Oh, no, no. You see, I would say 90, 98 percent wearing lederhosen. It just came back. But in the old days, actually lederhosen was more or less cheap clothings because the thick leather is means practical. It's rough. So it means kind of actually have been working clothing. And normally when you go to a feast, because the original Oktoberfest was not a king, but a first, one of the leaders, uh, Munich and Bavaria.

It was originally in the 1800s. It was a birthday fest with a horse race. So it slowly transitioned to the Oktoberfest. And of course in the old fests, uh, you wouldn't have worn, uh, working clothings. So that's why it contradicts a little bit, but this is how it actually changes. So traditions are actually changing too.

[00:11:59] Hamish: we're kind of digressing a little

bit,

but just maybe to bring it back to some sort of, I guess, seriousness. I've been taking some notes that we've been talking and I guess very high level first year of apprenticeship is, um, So you're not on site, you're, you're, in a classroom, You're learning you're learning about material, you're learning about

Chimba.

I guess

you're getting that sort of deep appreciation of the materials that you're learning with. And then within that first year, you get, you know, some, some practical experience.

and then there's an exam and you talk about building physics as if it's just normal to you guys. Like I'm hearing all of that. And there's such a massive difference in, a sense of pride in the work that's being done there. Like we need to do this more. We need to bring that passion back and the appreciation of the materials that we're working with. Like I reckon if every chippy or every bricklayer or every roof or everyone had to do exactly this to get there at the end of their apprenticeship, we would have such A

better workforce.

[00:13:00] Dan: hundred percent. I don't know how open I should speak here,

but I have

seen,

a few tapes and I work together with tapes and every time when I walk in, I'm just

completely shocked what they accept there. So we talk about like, when I showed you a few pictures of my, A model.

So we, when you finish your apprenticeship, part of your exam is to build a model. And the model has to have a belly, a hip, different roof pitches. And the tolerance is around a half millimeter there of the model. And if you, what you can see here on those pictures, actually have all different complicated parts and bits and pieces of the roof and you get around five points for it.

So you can actually bring it, but this is actually where you learn the skills.

and actually understand the roof structure too.

[00:13:40] Matt: So anyone that can't, we can't obviously show on, on the podcast, but what Dan's referring to is it sort of like if you jump in, say 1684. 2 standard sort of conventional roof pitch and explains all the members for a rafter to a ridge beam to whatever he's talking about, he literally has to cut that by hand.

Yeah. On all different angles, on all different plumb cuts, all different whatever, and produce that within half a mil, which to me is insane because we, most people couldn't even spit that out with the drop saw within two mil.

[00:14:11] Hamish: , I would argue that many trust companies couldn't have produced that using, you know, robotic. Cuttings machine like a hundred or something like that. Like the level of quality that is demanded by, I guess the system that you've gone through is non existent

here in Australia.

[00:14:25] Dan: Exactly. And the thing is. We're not talking about actually because of models, they're scaled down one to five most times. So what it is actually, because when you go to TAFE, you just nail together one to one and just, yeah, just nail it together and should be right. So I saw like 15 millimeter gap, 20 millimeter gap, that's all accepted.

And I think that's not beneficial because they don't have to learn at school, How to build a trust together. That's what actually you guys as an, a company should show them. They should learn the basics about how to work with the tool safe. when I go inside and I see someone.

It doesn't matter how big or how small the site is. When some people, when I go inside and I see someone uses the drop saw, inappropriate, which I say their hands are maybe 50 millimeters off the saw blade, which I do sometimes also, but you see if he's actually careful or not. I say something even if the boss is around.

Because like I take responsibility, I see it and I say something and this is all important parts of this is where the apprenticeship should focus on

like, the really deep understanding of the tools of the materials of the connections, why, how to make it better. This is, and then actually practical stuff, the real stuff that's on the companies to show.

Like you guys, because we don't have to show two times the same thing.

[00:15:40] Matt: I think the issue is in here in Australia, but I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

the product as cheap as they can, as fast as they can. So there's no time to teach people. Do you think that's probably correct?

[00:15:49] Dan: that's what I see on the market, but that's the opposite and it doesn't help. And what's the ladies from the NBA name are called again, because like two or three months ago, she came off the statement that by the end of the year, we need 90, 000 more trades And what's the answer from TAFE? Oh, let's cut more courses.

So that means kind of, we go more on quantity and not on quality. And exactly opposite should happen. So we should actually step back and go to quality. The only upside is on this terrible story is we're going to create more work for ourselves because all these homes, they're going to create massive problems in the future.

[00:16:20] Matt: So, you finish your apprenticeship, you do your carpentry, then you do a master carpenter.

[00:16:24] Dan: Yes, you have to work at least six years. I think now to drop it down to three

years

[00:16:29] Matt: that post your apprenticeship?

[00:16:30] Dan: post apprenticeship. Yes. So now it's three years and

[00:16:33] Hamish: so Dan, how long does it take to get your just normal, like how long does it take to do your normal apprenticeship? Is

it three to four or four

years?

[00:16:40] Dan: Three years in Switzerland is four years.

So that's why the Swiss carbon does like, I think even five years, I can't remember, but if you can hence get hands on a Swiss carpenter,

just get him because they are the best companies around the world,

[00:16:54] Hamish: so three years to do your carpentry apprenticeship and then another, and then you've got to wait six years to then

become a master carpenter.

[00:17:00] Dan: you should work for six years, get experience.

Yes, but they cut it down for three years. It might be even possible that they cut it even further down, but that's how it was in the old days when. The system came in place and as I did my master carbon and construction year together, I had to go back to school.

Uh, it's a full time, two years, full time school of the tools. So you're two years off work. And the basic part is actually a lot of structural engineering. I hated it as manually. So it means timber construction, steel and reinforced concrete. And that's a big exam. Also, that was my hardest part. you learn structure engineering.

Um, You learn actually drawings, so you use architecture drawing programs and timber drawing programs also. So there are fundamentally different details of different programs because the architectural one is your DA plan. But we use in Australia the DA plan to build our house. In Germany, you need a construction plan, which actually really have measurements which are useful for you and me as a builder.

Real measurements and they can actually get the wall heights out one on one how it is and all the details then detail plans. Also, like when you build stairs, whatever it has to be one on one, exact the right detail, which I'm not sure how we have it here in Australia and. Then we have the practical test also.

And the practical test is crazy because like, I have to show you some pictures also, like how complicated and twisted the materials are, has nothing to do with reality, no one will do it ever again because we have all these, CAD programs, but.

Then there's a lot of theory. Theory is kind of, construction law, basic stuff, which is very, very dry. A lot of building physics, a bit of history about construction and building history. And lots, of course, the theory part. Then part three is about, uh, management, how to like accounting and all the other stuff.

And cloud. The fourth one is, which is very, very important is actually your training license. So it means actually have a training license. So you're not allowed to start a company as a carpenter if you don't have a master carpenter and you're not allowed to have apprentice. So you need to do the training license.

So you know how to teach your apprentice. And it's important, not like Because you're going to hit him. So there's more about actually how do you reassure that over three years, you really actually get them to the point where you want to have him. So of course, some people which are very, very hands on, they're not good teachers.

It's just a do, do, do, do. And that's why for these kinds of people, it's very supportive to say, okay, we show you how to train your apprentice that in three years you have your perfect copy of yourself, even better than.

[00:19:43] Matt: that would blow the mind of any, say, government agency in Australia that hand out a license to, that only if you had that license, then you can train an apprentice like is no way

that someone in Australia in the government side of things could even come up with something like that because they'd be too scared of it.

[00:19:58] Hamish: that, you know, I was just sitting here listening to all of that. And I'm thinking like, if we had that process here in Australia, like the quality craftsmen that we'd be spitting out would be next level. I mean, Maddie, you, and I are pretty good communicators, right? I think we're we're pretty good leaders.

I think we we would offer a pretty good environment on our building sites

for our team to learn.

Admittedly,

I'm not perfect. I'm sure I could do better, but I'm sure that there is tons, hundreds of thousands, if not thousands of other builders out, there who don't have the ability to train apprentices really well. they, might be amazing craftsmen and trades people themselves, but they probably don't have the ability to then teach that next group of people coming up. and if we could actually offer a program to builders, to teach them how to teach the apprentices. And I don't think it needs to be a massively long course, but that would be such a game

changer.

[00:20:57] Matt: It would clean up the system very quickly. Okay. I'm just spitting out, at the moment, the issue, we don't even have licensed carpenters. Bunnings, buy a nail gun, we'll work carpenters, whack up a frame.

Seriously,

[00:21:09] Dan: 100 an

[00:21:10] Matt: them.

[00:21:11] Hamish: Yep.

[00:21:12] Matt: and, and not whack it together correctly, still get paid and then walk away and there's nothing that they can be held accountable to.

Like, what the fuck's that?

[00:21:20] Dan: I think it's, it's a bit of topic, topic, but a great example, driver license. So we have the L plates here and maybe the parents show you how to drive a car. How do you know that your parents know how to drive a car? Really understand like how to actually work on traffic. Same in Germany. Yeah, You have to go to the driving teacher, you pay around two and a half, three thousand euros, which is ridiculous expensive, but you do a proper driver license.

Like we talk about 40 hours practical driving and with the teacher and,

and another 20 hours theoretically. And one of the things is you go on the Autobahn and say they want to see you driving 150, 160. Because I want to see that you're safe to drive. When you go on the Autobahn, they say, accelerate. Now, when you go on the Autobahn, you have to hit one 20 at least, because they really want to see that you don't slow down the traffic.

But again, what I'm just saying is the professionals really know how to teach it, because this is the only way how we actually being able to step up, because normally what should happen is that. Trainers and specifically education system should be ahead of the market.

At the moment, what we have with TAFE, they're just.

Teaching building code and what's happening and what happened in the past, because building cause actually reflecting the past at the moment with small changes. But normally there should be around 10, 15 years ahead to say, okay, this is going to come tomorrow. Let's see what's happening next.

[00:22:44] Matt: So the issue we have is so many

people, like, put their hands, like, This whole toxic culture that we see on say social media that

people can comment now and say, Oh, why do we need more rules? Why change the system? I think Dan's

made a pretty obvious case why we need to change the system. If we just need to look to people taking care in what

they do having pride in their job.

Like, unfortunately for so long, the trade industry and building industry, no one's refer to themselves as professional. It's just, we'll just get the job done. And there needs to be an urgent change with that, especially if we're about to put on, how many new apprentices did we say? Was it, I need 90, 000 by the end of the year, which is impossible.

Let's just, let's just start with that. Like that's not happening. I'm just sitting here just being sitting like, so my team are good. My qualified carpenters are exceptional. Like, we need more of them out there, like finding quality carpenters. I just went hot, went looking for a new carpenter.

I had a bunch of people applied. I don't, I think there was only one I got back to because I was just like, you're not up to the level that I would want and like they can learn. There's no doubt that they can get there, but I'm after someone like you Dan. I want someone who is passionate, loves their job,

wants to learn.

I think that's the part that also gets lost along the way is like,

the passion is gone.

[00:23:57] Hamish: Yeah. And I think, I think, obviously Dan, Dan and Maddie, you, we're all super

passionate about what we

do. how can we encourage the future of our building industry? get excited about what they're doing and not think that getting into a trade's a

cop out,

they, they should have a sense of pride of what they do. like, I, every fucking day I get up and I love what I do. I know that I'm coming to work And I'm making a difference to people's lives when I build them beautiful, comfortable, healthy

homes, like how can we change that narrative that, tradespeople are sub standard or, or unintelligent or, or not good enough to go to uni. And like, how do we change

that narrative?

[00:24:35] Dan: Out of many ways. So funny enough is kind of. In Australia, you earn a lot of money for relatively low quality and average in Germany is the other way around. So as a chippy, you don't make much of a money. So the only thing that's left is that you actually are proud of what

you're doing. Two or three fun facts about the master carpenter.

first of all, after you go to. Two years full time retrain

in percent. How much more do you think you earn after

[00:25:00] Hamish: 2%,

3%,

4%.

[00:25:02] Dan: roughly? Yes. So, so when you

come back, I learned, I think I went to school in 2, 200 euros a month, I think I was stepped up to 2, 400 euros

a month net.

[00:25:12] Matt: you have to go work for a number of different carpenters as well, is that correct? You just don't want off one?

[00:25:16] Dan: no. So funny enough is in civilian Germany. It's considered a good CV if you've worked for a long period of time for the same company.

So if you change all the time, so what you're trying to pick on is that you actually traveled. So you

go, uh, you, that you, after your apprenticeship and it's a long tradition that you go on a journey,

that's why they call it a

journeyman. Yes. And three years in one day, it's still happening quite often. I didn't want to do it because it's really, really hard and I never felt like doing it. but another part is because you said we need more rules. I would definitely disagree with the rules because I think we have. Too many rules. . What I think it needs is responsibility and taking responsibility. So two examples or three examples. I said the one with the drop saw because I'm a trainer, I see something. I say something. Technically, because you do a health and safety course about scaffolding also. So in Germany, you always build your own scaffold on your house, if it's a smaller one, but if you around and you see a faulty scaffold, it's actually your responsibility to say something.

If you think it's dangerous, technically, if they could prove that you have seen it and something happened, you will be responsible, which never happened, but this is what I get teached. And the other part is also the reasons why we have structural engineering. We, as a master carpenter. It's expected from us when we see a timber beam, maybe it's rotten or, Has a defect or we have to replace it.

That'd be roughly can say, yeah, okay. The diameter should be 140 by 280 for the size. So it means you as a carbon to take responsibility even for the structural part, based on your experience and it's trusted and we have rule of thumbs, how to actually structured engineer, , Easy parts. And this is the difference.

So the thing is the government doesn't try to control everything. So it leaves you with you, but you as a master carbon, you're in responsibility and it changes a lot and the company names have most times family names. So it means actually you can't just stuff up your family name based company.

[00:27:16] Matt: I don't even know

what to say, I'm, I'm kind of speechless here, just, I, I, I don't know, Hamish and I just,

usually pointing at each other like, I want to talk, I want to talk. We're both sitting here just listening to Dan, just being like, mind blown,

and

[00:27:27] Hamish: I'm sitting here listening, thinking. How the fuck do we get more of this into our industry? like, we know that the government's not going to change it. And I'm just thinking, like, I know, you know, the guys at Future Build Co. are really, , passionate about, a lot of this stuff and, you know, and maybe we're going to see, I don't know, like a new wave and even the guys at Live Life Build are doing some good stuff I

think these kinds of organizations are going to be the real change.

Cause I don't think we can rely on government. I just want to ask one thing. I've just taken a note down here. So when you say master carpenter, would you say that that is the equivalent of say a licensed builder here?

[00:28:06] Dan: couldn't tell what exactly the license builder is, but the difference is still like correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm still relatively fresh in Australia. a bill is more or less doing everything, even with foundation groundwork and concrete.

I wouldn't dare to touch concrete.

I just hate it. So my job starts when I come on sites, uh, when the concrete slab is put and dried. Because

my profession is timber

and I try to be the best in this topic. I don't try to

cover every topic a little bit. So focus on one thing and be the best. And the same in Germany doesn't work because you need to have a bricklaying company or concrete company doing it because as a brick, you need to be a master bricky also to start your company

[00:28:50] Hamish: how does someone build a whole house then? Are there companies that build a whole house or is it, is it like a collection

Trades that come together that that the owner

[00:28:59] Dan: normally have a site manager manager also. So it depends on very often, like traditionally. And we have brick buildings. And brick buildings. We're not talking about like the bricks we see behind you, Maddy. So we talk about bricks. The standard size is, 240 by 360 millimeter by 240 mil high. So that's a standard brick.

And it's very, very lightweight because there's more air in the bricks than actually material, than clay.

So most times the buildings are based, we have a, Basement, a cellar, a proper one, one to two stories of bricks and just the roof is timber. Reasonably, we step more and more into timber construction because of energy efficiency, of speeds, et cetera, et cetera.

But it is always that the carbon doesn't lay the foundation

of groundwork. And most of the time we have, have it with other trades in Australia also, because we have a plumber, we have a sparky, et cetera. So we just would have to introduce a plumber

to do all the groundwork on the basement, which we don't

have.

[00:30:00] Matt: So, so now you, you work at Proclimer now.

[00:30:02] Dan: Yes.

[00:30:03] Matt: Did you actually work on the tools as a, carpenter, other than the truss manufacturer?

[00:30:07] Dan: So I worked in a joinery. I worked in a trust factory. I was working on a commercial building sites. Um, Building doors and skirting boards was also quite boring too in WA. I was building one of the first passive houses in New Zealand in 2014. It was, And there was, have been another one or two projects. But not big times, not in a big volume.

[00:30:31] Matt: I've gotten here down. I've written this very, very early on down the piece and it just says, Danny's so passionate. Like, why do you care?

[00:30:40] Dan: maybe, maybe it's a character thing also, because some people care more, some people care less and that's okay. Um, one thing is I'm a perfectionist

and yeah.

[00:30:50] Matt: shocked.

[00:30:51] Dan: owner of proclamer called Lota mall. I have a very good personal relationship with him. And once he said, uh, what's the enemy of good?

And he said, it's the best. that's how you see is me because it Nothing is good enough for me. I was saying there's a way of doing it better. And it's a double edged sword. So it means kind of, yeah, you can try to always achieve the best outcome. But on the other hand is you're never happy with what you got and that holds you back.

So for example, have a list of hundred 50 plus videos that would like to shoot for my Apple stand YouTube channel. but I don't do it because. I think like, Oh, I need to get this ready. It has to be perfect on us. And that's why I haven't even started yet. So that's why I hold myself back.

So that's the big downside of it. So just get started and get something done.

[00:31:32] Matt: Yeah, don't hold back. Just run with it, dude. Just go for it. You taught me how to wrap a house and that's before there was no other information other than this Airbostan guy on Instagram. And I was like, that's how I learned how to wrap a house

[00:31:44] Hamish: I'm with you there, you and I probably got into at the high performance space about the same time, and I reckon it was probably around about the time that Dan landed in Australia.

[00:31:53] Matt: with his Mustang. Is that

right? Now,