Ep_50 Artificial Intelligence with Overjet's Rob & Chris

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Hey, guys, welcome to the authentic dentist podcast. I am here with my co host, Dr. Allison house. And today we are at the voices of dentistry event in Scottsdale. And we have some special guests from the company overjet. And that is Rob and Chris. Hey, so really quickly. Because you probably want to say hello. Hey. So tell us what is it that overjet is doing? And how are you guys changing the dental industry?

01:25

Well, one, thanks for having us on. They've always said that Dr. Rob here has a face for podcast. So it's perfect for Hannah. There we go. But yes, we are an artificial intelligence company. I'll defer to my good friend, Dr. Rob here to tell tell what we do.

01:38

So we are an artificial intelligence company that automatically analyzes radiographs in real time, with really three main goals that we want clinicians to be more confident, more accurate and more clinically precise. So we want to improve patient outcomes by helping clinicians evaluate the radiographs more more consistently. And we do that in real time as X rays are taken. It's a cloud based platform. So everything lives in a browser tab, super easy to integrate. And, you know, it's an exciting time for dentistry. Because, you know, 2022 is kind of the year of the introduction of artificial intelligence, I think a lot of people probably heard about it for the first time. And 2023 is going to be the year the adoption, where you start seeing this really become more widespread throughout the industry.

So we've had several podcasts on the pain of integrating technology into an office and the learning curve. So this is sounding like, there's not going to be quite the learning curve, asked you,

02:34

I think one of the things we've done as a company best because we've all been in dental for a long time is you really have to support offices, like, the last thing you do is, hey, here's this new tech use it and wherever there. So we've built out a first in class, customer success team, all of our trainers are hygenist that actually go in the office or virtually trained. So a couple things. One is the tech, everything is automated, all you have to do is keep the browser open. That's it. So there's no, we do an integration with your practice management on the back end, but you as a doctor, never feel that it takes about 10 minutes. And then I think what we do better than pretty much all companies in Dental is that success aspect and the training aspect where we work with you on what you want to get out of overjet what your goals are what you want to change your in your office, what did overjet find in your practice? And then Dr. Rob does amazing job and actually integrating into your workflow, that I think it's the drawer in dentistry or the shelf where you buy all these tools that are never used. That's the last thing we want to happen. So we're very invested in that transition of technology and the workflow working for you. But we are all hands on deck like we are definitely not a hey, you got over yet. Great. Thank you very much. We we will we will be there as much as you will have us and sometimes like okay, Chris, you've been there enough. But we do try to support our office a

lot. So that's on the backside. Now on the front side, I know lots of companies that innovate and try to bring transformation, some of the struggle is educating the market. Do you feel like the market already knows, hey, we need this AI solution? Or is that one of the hurdles? Great

04:07

question, I would say in the DSOs space and like group practice. They're they're ready. They're in it like they've known about it. They're salivating I think in the general dentists population, think AI is cool, but not really sure what it is and how to use it. So

04:22

corporate Dentistry has definitely been an early adopter of the tech versus probably the private practice, which I think is great, because you get a bigger, you know, bigger sale and acquisition right away from a group instead of, you know, the solo pack Islam and everything like that. I think ultimately, though, to that point. overjet is a very clinical product, right? So I'm a general dentist. And really, the value that I see in artificial intelligence is helping me specifically as I'm looking at a single x ray sitting in the operatory. Right. And so to that point, just because maybe an executive board is interested about the outcomes that they see artificial intelligence bringing at the end end of the day, we have to go through this change management process down to the individual clinician and team member level. And I think that's the biggest area where practices and groups struggle is change management. And that's why you know, what Chris mentioned earlier, the dentist have the proverbial shelf that all their latest and greatest technology sits on that they don't use. Well, it's because the doctor went to a conference. And right the first two stages of change management are building awareness and building desire. So the doctor experienced that at a conference is very excited about this comes home and forgets that he still has to go through that change management process with his staff, and then neglects that and then the whatever they bought ends up not being used well, you know, with with artificial intelligence, and then a DSO who wants to roll this out. They're all excited and enthusiastic about it. But if they don't build that down to the individual team member and clinician level, the same thing, you're going to struggle with adoption. So that's really, you know, it's clinical director of an AI company. That's really my role is I'm a change management agent for the individual practices and team members and clinicians, so that they can really build that enthusiasm about artificial intelligence to ultimately have better adoption across the board.

So explain what you're talking about with the change. I guess I'm not seeing a big change in the way it flows with this. Yeah. So

06:10

I think it depends on how you envision AI interacting in your practice. So when I when I talk to dentists who really aren't that experienced with artificial intelligence, like I'm their first introduction to it, they usually picture themselves sitting back in their office, looking at an x ray with AI and then walking into a hygiene exam and thinking that, okay, now I've looked at the extremity with AI, I don't need it. Now at this point, right, I'm gonna go do my clinical exam. Well, really what we focus for really maximum, I think, increase in the KPIs that we track patient case acceptance, and doctors ability to diagnose, to really maximize those, we really want total integration in the practice. Okay, so in the four areas that we stress is, as a chart, perhaps, morning, huddles, looking at the real time X rays, and then using that for patient communication. And so although the tool itself is fantastically easy to use, I mean, it's takes us 10 minutes to show you where to click and how to click. But then it's it's ingrained into your workflow and some practices, for example, their hygienist don't prep their charts, or they're not having a morning huddle. So some of is creating best practices for them that maybe, ideally, they would have already had. But now we're trying to institute these best practices and infuse AI into so it becomes a little bit more constant change is

07:21

probably the wrong word. It's just like in those four buckets, putting overjet in there, like any product that works the best when you use it. So like Rob said, is like, Hey, you do a morning huddle. What's the best way to bring up overjet? How would you talk about it? cool part about overdose, we linked to your daily schedule through your practice management system. So let's say tomorrow, or yeah, let's say you're working Saturday, you have your patients coming in, we show what patients are coming in what the AI found, if it has an x ray there, they had an existing X ray, what was not treatment planned. So you're now hygenist. And you can go through and say Hey, okay, at 830, I have Chris Thompson coming in. Here's his past X ray, here's what overjet shows, here's what I didn't treatment plan. And then if I'm a new patient, you take the x ray or AI findings, pop in color and outline decay, millimeter measurements of perio within typically under 30 seconds for that new patient. So it's really just making sure you look at it like that big changes in the workflow, but making sure it's in your workflow.

So you're talking about a lot of leadership. Yeah, yes. Yeah. Because how do you have that discussion that you miss something on the last X ray? Yeah, that the AI caught? Yeah, that's that's a difficult conversation. Patient.

08:31

Yeah. Yeah. And I would say, to that point, a lot of times, you know, you'll take a new X ray in your show, but like, we hear that a lot. Like, what if I bring it up, or what we hear a lot is, what happens if it's a new patient of my practice, and I find a lot of things in the other doctor didn't treatment plan, like, doctors are scared to death for that new patient. And case acceptance of new patients is abysmal. So we hear a lot of doctors saying, hey, for that new patient, where I found four or five things that they didn't know they had, and their doctor six months ago and told them, they didn't have it. Using the visual is how I build trust. It's an objective source. And now the patient can actually see it. So case acceptance for new patients skyrockets, which is pretty cool.

That is, that's, that's amazing. What a great product.

09:13

Yeah, I think the case acceptance piece is often overlooked, by by individuals, when they're signing up for artificial intelligence, they think it's just gonna help them diagnose on an x ray. But for me, like, I don't feel like for an individual X ray, I necessarily need AI to tell me really care reasons, right? I mean, and I'm not that experienced. I'm in my 11th year of dentistry. But I feel like I can diagnose on a single x ray. But when you take that single x ray, and you multiply it by six to 8x Rays per patient that I'm taking films on times by however many number of patients a day, like we know like we can pull the data and show you that you diagnose differently eight o'clock am on Monday, then you do it three o'clock pm on a Friday, right? Like the data is there for that? Yeah. And so adding that consistency layer that even though I feel like I'm a competent, confident clinician, right, adding that consistently he'd like consistency to hear. But but

also seeing, you know, on that backdrop for your guys show the color, seeing the way that a patient can now see, maybe in a way that is just easier for them to understand. I'm sure that's why the case acceptance numbers are up.

10:16

Oh, yeah, they're they're finally seeing an x ray the way we as clinicians see every X ray, right, I look at an x ray, I see caries, I see bone levels I see calculus. Well, patients don't see that. But now you show me the eye findings and their level of understanding right, their education level on that X ray increases significantly.

10:31

And that's when this tool really takes off. Like when for like big hygiene usage, when a hygienist gets a patient to agree to an SRP with no pushback or no questions. Game on the hygienist is going to use it for everything right? When a doctor gets a crown approval. Obviously, case, acceptance is one thing, what we really care about is outcomes, the right treatment at the right time, they now see that, you know, 56% of that tooth is covered in a red carry, and they can visualize it. This is why we have to do a crowd. And they're like, oh, great, and the doctor is like, great, you know, and then it really starts to snowball, because you get that patient reaction. So it's really interesting to see, like we show existing restorations in blue on our x ray. And a lot of times patients like oh, oh, I have like, what are those? Those are fillings up, even though I had them are like, wow, that's kind of like it's just a great patient education.

What about on the payer side? Can you tell us a little bit? Does this have an effect on how you send claims or get paid?

11:31

Yeah, so we actually, you know, for those who don't realize we're actually the AI engine, for nine out of the 10 largest dental insurance companies, meaning that they're using overjet, specifically to automate their claims approvals. Okay. So overjet doesn't deny any claims overjet only applies whatever criteria that the insurance company has elected to apply to help expedite the approval of specific claims. So for example, scaling and root planing, right. So every insurance company requires evidence of radiographic bone loss. Well, prior to heavy overjet, that was a very subjective determination, you'd look at it and say yes or no, this looks like bone loss, and then they look at it, maybe agree with you, maybe not? Well, now on every X ray, you're gonna have a bone level measurement with an accuracy of plus or minus three tenths of a millimeter, right point three millimeters. And so you'll know if there's bone loss on an x ray or not. And you're going to know that the insurance company is going to see that same value on that. Excellent. So as you're submitting your claims, and we absolutely recommend that front desk staff take a screenshot or a snippet of that of that AI reading on the X ray and send that with their original image. Now we're having a more objective level of criteria applied to our X rays into our claims so that we're all seeing the same information, it's no longer white think they're gonna pay for this right, think they're not right, we actually will know what the criteria are that we're being evaluated on. This is really the first time in dentistry this has happened. I think we still have some ways to go to maximize transparency. But as somebody who's had claims rejected before, and I understand the frustration that comes with that, you know, I wish I had this a decade ago when I started pricing last year. Wow. Yeah. I mean,

this is amazing. What are some of the common questions that you're running into as you guys are educating the market?

13:16

I think

13:17

you I mean, or is it pretty self evident?

13:19

No, actually, there's the question of why like, yes, we can do this. But why are we doing this? And this may be comes from the more experienced doctors who, like I've been practicing 35 years, like, why do I need to have artificial intelligence, right. And so when I show them, like your hygienist like your auxilary staff, they can log into the dashboard and they can see every patient is due for perio charting. Every patient is due for radiographs. It'll highlight patients coming in for a profi today, who maybe really have evidence of periodontal disease and could use some scaling and replaying your periodontal therapy. And it's going to flag that automatically for your staff. So even if it's not changing how you diagnose, which I would argue probably does, I think it influences even experienced doctors for the good. But even if they don't think it's going to the time saving that it brings to your team members and your staff and the elevated level of care that helps us provide our patients, right, that I think is a big impact that this is going to have. And so when they say Why usually that just means what benefit is this gonna give me and my patients and how can I make sure that I'm actually getting?

14:18

We get your typical AI questions, as you can imagine, like accuracy, is it FDA cleared, you name it, so we can handle those and we do a lot of we have a lot of work like we've really been in the dental world, the practice side of the business where we call it for a little over a year now. But we've been around for four and a half years and the first few of those years was all AI getting the right x ray training system. So very high in accuracy. As you guys know, if the doctor to try something and it doesn't work two or three times they don't try it 10 times they pretty much give up. So it's super paramount that it's accurate. Rob and our team does a really good job of making this clinically conservative. The last thing we want is to say oh, now I can use this to treat more that is not the purpose of overdose. Everything we find in our tool is through the eyes of a bunch of dentists and very clinically conservative, but then I think to your other question, it's like, like Rob says, like, I love AI, I get the idea of it. But like, how do I really make it humble? Like, like any tech, it's like, it could be the coolest thing on the planet, that makes you a million dollars a year. And if it doesn't work with your office, it doesn't matter, it will just collect us. So that's a part that we are very keyed in on. So we

love knowing, like, what drives the company, what's the founder story here? Like, how did this even come up? Because as you said, it's like, almost four or five years in the making. So it's a

15:35

great story. So our founder is her names were to MIT, you know, about 38 times smarter than me probably 60 times smarter than Rob but it was she was working in AI for MRI so familiar with like how AI could change right and it's pretty big in the medical field already and went to a dentist got one diagnosis was different than what she thought engineer so probably very, you know, particular about her teeth, right. And then went to another doctor and different diagnosis, different treatment planning very significantly, by dollars significantly by everything right. And very curious, started talking to this doctor, his name's Dr. Chris Balvin, started talking about X ray started talking about how it works. He is now one of our he's our VP of Clinical Affairs stopped practicing to come over to overjet. But basically, like, was like, wait a minute, how can there be such variation? What can I do for this? Like I'm working in MRIs? How could I now do this in dental quitter job like a week later, learned everything there is to do know about X rays brought Dr. Chris over, brought a team over and the rest is history. So it's like our what we solve for was actually the founder story, which is pretty intriguing.

16:51

And I think her story is one that our patients experience routinely, right? So lack of consistency between providers is a huge problem. Even within an individual practice, where I've been in group practice settings, essentially, since I graduated dental school, and often all diagnose on Monday for the patient. And then for whatever reason, they're coming back on a Thursday where I'm not in the office, and they're seeing another provider. And that provider either sees something I didn't see or doesn't see something, I did see it. So it's a lack of consistent experience for that patient. And I don't think it builds trust for the patient and us as providers, Russell's in office. And so having a more objective way to evaluate this information. I mean, just a couple of months ago, my my sister, she's my youngest sister, 10 years, my junior sent me an extra to hey, I haven't been to the dentist for a few years. They say I need $800 of this deep cleaning. Does that sound reasonable? And I text her back and said, Well, it sounds reasonable if you need it. But you know, send me your X rays. What do they look like? She sent me her X rays, no bone loss whatsoever. X rays look better than mine. But she had some bleeding four or five millimeter pockets. Right, but a few years. So we're scaling and root planing the right procedure for her, right? Maybe, maybe not. But if we apply objective information like this, this should be able to have an objective set of criteria that you go to a doctor, they look at your criteria, and they'll say, Okay, you need this treatment, like if you if you go get treated for blood pressure, high blood pressure, right? They have like a protocol, you go off to the office, and they're gonna we're gonna follow a standardized protocol in general. Okay, so now can we have that in dentistry where if you have these probing depths, and these bone level measurements that we can apply more consistent criteria, and that all came from where it is where the story of having more clinical consistency,

18:27

but it's interesting that I went to a chiropractor, and my back was hurting a couple days ago. And, you know, we talked to dentists all day. And I was in pain, like, six me, man. And he was my insurance didn't cover it. And he said, Hey, like, our exam is X amount of dollars. But if you want this, this and this, it's like $20 More, and I'm in pain. Just tell me what I need, like, you know, so. And then we started talking, and we opened and, you know, we got to know each other, I told him what I do. And he's like, I was like, man, you know, like, I was just waiting for you to tell me what you did. And I would have given you whatever. And he's like, can I, I kind of struggle with that. But there was no visual for me, like, I just wanted the doctor. And that's the cool part is now you have that visual tool, where, you know, let's face it, there's a lack of trust, because you do get different treatment plans. I think, at the end of the day, if like our doctors or hygienists we work with, you know, once they really use it to get in I think, when when they're done or when, you know, when they think about when I really get out of this, I think most would say like the patient actually understands what I'm trying to do, which is pretty impactful in it in a world where it's tough, you know, patients are very demanding. It's it's a it's a challenging world. So I think that's a that's couldn't be a pretty cool impact that overjet can have.

So for the dentists out there that want to learn more, where is the best place for them to

19:42

figure that out? Yes, Dr. Rob's address is overjet.ai All you have to do is click on a demo and we'll get you right away or my email is chris.thompson@overjet.ai. So either way find us we'll get you a demo quick demo and install process is pretty easy, and we're going to dry Dr. House's office tomorrow, get her all set up. So

there we go. Thank you all. We appreciate your time today. This is thanks very informative. Thanks for having us.

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