1 00:00:09,758 --> 00:00:11,188 Brian: Welcome to the Rebooting Show. 2 00:00:11,188 --> 00:00:12,568 I am Brian Morrisey. 3 00:00:12,568 --> 00:00:15,478 This is a Cannes edition of the podcast. 4 00:00:15,478 --> 00:00:18,698 I think this is my 15th time to Cannes. 5 00:00:18,748 --> 00:00:20,788 there are worse fates in life, I gotta say. 6 00:00:21,098 --> 00:00:31,448 the week has only just gotten started, and to be perfectly honest, I never know how much of a tro barometer of the state of the media business Cannes is despite having to act like it is many times over the year. 7 00:00:31,797 --> 00:00:33,867 I have more , on that, in the rebooting newsletter. 8 00:00:33,867 --> 00:00:36,580 please check it out Rebooting is doing some events here. 9 00:00:36,630 --> 00:00:50,283 this is, for all of its flaws, probably the best gathering of all parts of the media ecosystem, from tech to marketing to some media, now to retail media. 10 00:00:50,782 --> 00:00:55,201 Pretty much creators, pretty much every part of the ecosystem sort of comes together here. 11 00:00:55,262 --> 00:01:04,412 and it's kind of telling who has the biggest splashes, you know, the giant tech platforms have massive beach installations and ad tech. 12 00:01:04,412 --> 00:01:08,252 Companies and data companies, are SCOs and yachts. 13 00:01:08,499 --> 00:01:12,059 and publishers have little smaller, outposts here. 14 00:01:12,119 --> 00:01:16,595 Often they have their own little houses, which sometimes are actually just, apartment suites. 15 00:01:17,194 --> 00:01:18,964 In any case, it's good to be here. 16 00:01:18,964 --> 00:01:26,045 in addition to this, live podcast you're about to hear, we're holding a media leaders dinner with our partners at x co. on Wednesday and 17 00:01:26,045 --> 00:01:34,655 on Thursday, Sarah Fisher and Neil Vogel are joining me, and hopefully Troy Young for a live recording of people versus algorithms at. 18 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,230 Meredith Villa. 19 00:01:37,350 --> 00:01:40,841 So I'm excited to do a villa, podcast, pull side. 20 00:01:41,377 --> 00:01:42,989 we'll run that on Friday. 21 00:01:42,989 --> 00:01:47,694 And the PVA feed, this is a good reminder if you don't already, to check out people versus algorithms. 22 00:01:47,694 --> 00:01:49,894 It's a show where Troy and Alex Schleifer. 23 00:01:49,914 --> 00:01:52,914 Join me to break down patterns in media, technology and culture. 24 00:01:53,244 --> 00:01:55,914 Find it anywhere you get podcasts, including YouTube. 25 00:01:56,004 --> 00:01:59,934 I'm gonna be shifting to using YouTube for the Rebooting Show. 26 00:01:59,964 --> 00:02:01,104 I'm interested to see how that goes. 27 00:02:01,104 --> 00:02:09,564 I'm never totally convinced that these kind of podcasts, make that much sense in video, but I think that there's a way to do it, that it's actually additive and YouTube is. 28 00:02:10,139 --> 00:02:15,209 You know, it's become like a force for podcasting because podcasting discovery is not great. 29 00:02:15,632 --> 00:02:27,329 on that note, be sure to check out the three part, podcast, that we did, with Ben Smith from Semaphore and, Peter Kafka from, channels podcast, or two podcasts I really enjoy. 30 00:02:27,329 --> 00:02:30,375 you heard, one part of it on this feed, on Thursday. 31 00:02:30,705 --> 00:02:31,605 Any other two? 32 00:02:31,655 --> 00:02:35,759 or on the Seven four is mixed signals feed and also on Peter's, channels feed. 33 00:02:35,759 --> 00:02:37,079 So check both of those out. 34 00:02:37,843 --> 00:02:41,661 We held a live recording of the rebooting show from the Hearst House in Cannes. 35 00:02:41,661 --> 00:02:42,471 Earlier today. 36 00:02:42,771 --> 00:02:51,021 I spoke to Cosmopolitan, editor-in-Chief, Willa Bennett and Hearst Global CRO, Lisa Ryan, about how Cosmo is evolving from a magazine 37 00:02:51,021 --> 00:02:59,961 and a website into a multi-platform brand that aims to establish itself with a new generation as its guide to love and relationships. 38 00:02:59,961 --> 00:03:04,112 the days of 50 ways to drive him wild in bed are long gone. 39 00:03:04,557 --> 00:03:14,318 it is taking a more nuanced view of love and relationships with projects like, the video series Blind Date and also with Cosmos Sports, a new franchise spotlighting women athletes. 40 00:03:14,318 --> 00:03:18,534 Uh, we also discussed doing more with less in both editorial and in sales. 41 00:03:18,774 --> 00:03:21,294 How Cosmos next phase is more about. 42 00:03:21,294 --> 00:03:31,898 Creating IP that can be expressed in various ways and custom projects like, the resale collab, that Cosmo did with Depop, and also events like, the Valentine's Love Ball. 43 00:03:32,079 --> 00:03:32,559 Hope you enjoy the 44 00:03:32,559 --> 00:03:33,410 conversation 45 00:03:39,031 --> 00:03:47,897 today I wanted to have Willa on and Lisa to talk about Cosmo and what Cosmo means now because I always think. 46 00:03:48,662 --> 00:03:50,162 You know what brands mean? 47 00:03:50,162 --> 00:03:53,372 What media brands mean now has changed completely. 48 00:03:53,372 --> 00:03:53,732 Right. 49 00:03:53,762 --> 00:03:58,382 And so you have to move from being a publication to being a brand. 50 00:03:58,502 --> 00:03:59,312 so let's get into it. 51 00:03:59,492 --> 00:04:01,142 'cause we only have like a half hour, right? 52 00:04:01,142 --> 00:04:01,292 I know. 53 00:04:01,292 --> 00:04:02,282 Willa: It's not gonna be long enough. 54 00:04:02,342 --> 00:04:02,642 All right. 55 00:04:02,642 --> 00:04:05,402 Brian: Willa, so you are, you, you're nine months in. 56 00:04:05,402 --> 00:04:05,792 Right? 57 00:04:06,002 --> 00:04:07,982 And I'm interested in. 58 00:04:08,462 --> 00:04:15,212 Like, what did the Cosmo brand mean to you when you were like, I don't know, like 21 or something? 59 00:04:15,212 --> 00:04:16,982 What, what would it, what did it stand for? 60 00:04:17,612 --> 00:04:24,632 Willa: I feel like similarly, and I, I wanna ask you the same question 'cause I Oh no, you, you sim when we were talking, you were like, I used to read Cosmo and I was like, I didn't 61 00:04:24,632 --> 00:04:25,622 Brian: agree to read Cosmo. 62 00:04:25,622 --> 00:04:26,882 I saw Cosmo a lot. 63 00:04:27,482 --> 00:04:28,982 Willa: So we're off to a bad start, huh? 64 00:04:29,926 --> 00:04:32,028 no, I mean I've read Cosmo my whole life. 65 00:04:32,028 --> 00:04:39,918 I feel like what is so special about the brand and 60 years ago, When Helen Gurley Brown was editor and kind of took Cosmo 66 00:04:39,918 --> 00:04:47,598 into this new sphere, I think what was so special is it really was an authority for young women to understand relationships. 67 00:04:47,928 --> 00:04:51,378 And I think that's always been the core of Cosmo and the legacy of Cosmo. 68 00:04:51,378 --> 00:05:00,498 It's been this place where you can actually ask questions about yourself, ask questions about love, and really explore the intricacies that come with that. 69 00:05:00,498 --> 00:05:05,118 And so I think what was so exciting about me coming to Cosmo is I think. 70 00:05:05,418 --> 00:05:12,487 There's such a need for that right now, especially in the age, and I'm sure we'll get into this of, you know, influencers and creators. 71 00:05:12,487 --> 00:05:15,187 It's like, who is the authority in this space? 72 00:05:15,247 --> 00:05:17,137 And that's Cosmo. 73 00:05:17,527 --> 00:05:17,857 Brian: Yeah. 74 00:05:17,917 --> 00:05:23,857 So when I came into like contact with Cosmo, it was a totally different era, right? 75 00:05:23,887 --> 00:05:27,727 Like, and it was more about like 50 ways to drive him crazy in bed. 76 00:05:28,027 --> 00:05:33,787 Like that was the, I think that was literally the cover, like at least like eight or 10 times, like. 77 00:05:34,207 --> 00:05:35,887 And it was just completely different. 78 00:05:35,887 --> 00:05:38,467 So how do you modernize that? 79 00:05:38,797 --> 00:05:41,857 Because that stuff is completely out of date now. 80 00:05:42,317 --> 00:05:46,337 and I don't even think, like, probably most of your audience doesn't even know about that part of the brand. 81 00:05:46,817 --> 00:05:51,737 Willa: Well, I, I actually would argue that I, I think they have, like we, we will recirculate old covers. 82 00:05:51,767 --> 00:05:53,237 Um, Taylor Swift is on one. 83 00:05:53,525 --> 00:05:57,153 Jake Shane actually just brought it up on a podcast, and. 84 00:05:57,678 --> 00:06:03,678 The, the clip of Lauren and Jake Shane talking about the old Cosmo cover went incredibly viral. 85 00:06:04,041 --> 00:06:06,502 so they have, they have the association with the brand. 86 00:06:06,502 --> 00:06:07,222 They know what it is. 87 00:06:07,222 --> 00:06:19,162 Hypothetically, I think what's interesting, and I'm sure most people in this room don't know this, is that we, the sex part of it, like the platforms actually won't let us talk about sex. 88 00:06:19,312 --> 00:06:23,272 So, for example, on TikTok, we'll say sex, S-E-G-G-S. 89 00:06:23,677 --> 00:06:24,337 did you know that 90 00:06:24,637 --> 00:06:24,728 Brian: she humiliated? 91 00:06:24,733 --> 00:06:25,207 Humiliated? 92 00:06:25,207 --> 00:06:25,807 Did you know that? 93 00:06:25,837 --> 00:06:26,647 No, I didn't know that. 94 00:06:26,647 --> 00:06:26,977 Willa: Wow. 95 00:06:26,977 --> 00:06:28,207 Look, I'm teaching you something. 96 00:06:28,657 --> 00:06:29,407 Look at this. 97 00:06:29,567 --> 00:06:40,038 but, but it's such an interesting, it's so interesting 'cause like we, we speak about love and relationships in the way our audience does, but our actual platforms, we, we can't really openly talk about these things. 98 00:06:40,277 --> 00:06:44,446 So sags on TikTok, on Instagram, you know, we really lean into love. 99 00:06:44,821 --> 00:06:50,491 And I think at the end of the day, we really are just replicating how this younger audience is talking about love and relationships. 100 00:06:50,491 --> 00:06:59,341 And it feels organic to them, even though, you know, I, I tell you on this podcast that we can't say SEX and you laugh, but that, that's how young people are finding these conversations. 101 00:06:59,551 --> 00:06:59,791 Brian: Yeah. 102 00:06:59,971 --> 00:07:03,571 So Lisa, let's talk about the, the business side and how the business has changed. 103 00:07:03,631 --> 00:07:03,931 Right. 104 00:07:03,931 --> 00:07:07,391 Like, obviously, you know, print has a different purpose. 105 00:07:07,391 --> 00:07:09,401 It's, it's, it's quarterly now. 106 00:07:09,521 --> 00:07:09,581 Yeah. 107 00:07:09,581 --> 00:07:11,141 It's about creating moments. 108 00:07:11,241 --> 00:07:14,361 Still, still I'm sure like a good business. 109 00:07:14,421 --> 00:07:23,001 I think the, I think the, I feel like the last era was like transitioning these business into digital, and now to me, and tell me if I'm wrong here. 110 00:07:23,181 --> 00:07:38,391 It's about how do you make this like a true, like brand leaning into like a ip, leaning into being able to like, activate audiences, along with brands, but like what, what is when you're going out to the market, like what does Cosmo mean now? 111 00:07:38,751 --> 00:07:39,951 Lisa: Yeah, so. 112 00:07:40,491 --> 00:07:45,381 First, I should say we have kind of, we think about two moats for us, right? 113 00:07:45,381 --> 00:07:59,301 Two things that are our differentiators and that we have to build anything that we're gonna, create and put out in the world, around, one of them is our ip, Cosmo, our talent, Willa, our brand, and the other is data. 114 00:07:59,391 --> 00:08:03,111 And we're obviously in this conversation talking about ip, that side of it. 115 00:08:03,420 --> 00:08:05,430 so print, I think now is about moment. 116 00:08:05,970 --> 00:08:07,860 So we probably have fewer issues. 117 00:08:07,860 --> 00:08:10,080 We have four issues in print of Cosmo. 118 00:08:10,367 --> 00:08:12,197 it's really a social first brand now. 119 00:08:12,407 --> 00:08:14,207 That's where this generation is. 120 00:08:14,237 --> 00:08:27,558 And so a lot of the energy that we're putting into this brand, both on the edit side and on the business side, is social with social on platform, not just social to drive back to our readers, I mean, to, to our, websites. 121 00:08:27,948 --> 00:08:33,509 So, I think that's key for us, but it varies by brand other brands. 122 00:08:33,824 --> 00:08:35,954 Have different priorities around their ip. 123 00:08:35,954 --> 00:08:44,234 So delish is one of our recipes, is one of our, brands, and that's about recipes and that's about membership, right? 124 00:08:44,234 --> 00:08:45,284 Good housekeeping. 125 00:08:45,554 --> 00:08:48,254 That's about the institute, right? 126 00:08:48,254 --> 00:08:52,064 So a really niche, super fan brand that we have. 127 00:08:52,304 --> 00:08:55,544 Hot Rod is about events and merch. 128 00:08:55,634 --> 00:09:01,064 So we really have to think about our IP based on the brand and based on how that audience. 129 00:09:01,619 --> 00:09:03,089 Wants to see that brand show up. 130 00:09:03,809 --> 00:09:13,199 Brian: So I, something I've noticed, like that's been shifting is I used to talk with people and they would, they would talk about their comp score numbers all the time, and now nobody talks about that anymore. 131 00:09:13,709 --> 00:09:20,870 And it's weird, and obviously the traffic era is over and I felt like the transition, I do another podcast with Troy Young. 132 00:09:20,870 --> 00:09:26,870 and you know, his whole thing was like months to moments when he was at Hearst and a lot of it was digitizing the business and 133 00:09:26,870 --> 00:09:35,240 getting that kind of metabolism, you know, that you saw at a bustle, you were at Bustle and, and other places that at the time. 134 00:09:35,810 --> 00:09:37,130 They were gonna take over. 135 00:09:37,250 --> 00:09:42,320 Like that was, you know, what Brian was saying, he was gonna take over like this kind of business. 136 00:09:42,380 --> 00:09:43,730 He's not saying it anymore. 137 00:09:43,790 --> 00:09:52,080 and they, they ended up buying, you know, magazine brands and, I think a lot of their business now is, is events at the end of the day. 138 00:09:52,455 --> 00:09:54,045 I went to one at, like, art Basel. 139 00:09:54,045 --> 00:09:55,335 I was the oldest person at it. 140 00:09:55,340 --> 00:09:56,355 It was very awkward. 141 00:09:57,053 --> 00:10:03,617 but like, when you're, like, talk to me about the, the IP and how you end up, you know, building that part of the business. 142 00:10:03,617 --> 00:10:17,117 'cause I don't think these days, like putting ads on pages, whether it's in print or on a website, is probably going to be, it is gonna be a part of the future, but it's, it's a smaller part. 143 00:10:17,972 --> 00:10:23,312 Lisa: Yeah, and I'd say we think about a brand events, again, by brand because they differ. 144 00:10:23,672 --> 00:10:37,412 So for some of our more luxury oriented brands like L or Harper's Bazaar, Esquire, those are like kind of, curating small groups of kind of influencers and editors and brands. 145 00:10:37,774 --> 00:10:38,391 and then we have. 146 00:10:39,521 --> 00:10:40,931 And of the, the whole gamut. 147 00:10:40,931 --> 00:10:44,141 All the way to, we just had our, to use this brand again. 148 00:10:44,141 --> 00:10:47,681 We just had our hot rod power tour last week and it was, I showed you the picture. 149 00:10:47,681 --> 00:10:47,741 Yeah. 150 00:10:47,741 --> 00:10:54,221 It was 6 6700 cars and thousands of people who pay to go. 151 00:10:54,371 --> 00:11:00,671 And so these brands, we have to think about each one and how an event is or isn't relevant for it. 152 00:11:01,246 --> 00:11:01,466 And 153 00:11:01,466 --> 00:11:02,106 Willa: I'll, if that makes sense. 154 00:11:02,106 --> 00:11:08,299 Just add on the Cosmo front, of my favorite events that we've, I've ever put on my career was for Valentine's Day. 155 00:11:08,599 --> 00:11:18,206 We had a party the night before Valentine's Day, so like a kickoff, partnered with Bumble, you walked in and, Bumble and I created this, this wristband. 156 00:11:18,206 --> 00:11:24,536 So if you were single, you wore this yellow wristband and you were to mingle with people to find your Valentine for the next day. 157 00:11:24,836 --> 00:11:30,386 And it was to celebrate our love issue, which had McLay Kin and Brenda Song on the cover, which you told. 158 00:11:30,386 --> 00:11:30,541 I know them. 159 00:11:30,746 --> 00:11:30,896 I do. 160 00:11:30,896 --> 00:11:31,256 You told me. 161 00:11:31,256 --> 00:11:32,036 You know, both of them. 162 00:11:32,036 --> 00:11:32,306 I don't 163 00:11:32,306 --> 00:11:32,396 Brian: know. 164 00:11:32,531 --> 00:11:32,821 Doci. 165 00:11:33,941 --> 00:11:34,061 Willa: I 166 00:11:34,061 --> 00:11:34,301 Brian: don't 167 00:11:35,161 --> 00:11:36,141 Willa: you do know Doci? 168 00:11:36,326 --> 00:11:36,686 I don't. 169 00:11:36,746 --> 00:11:38,576 You saw her on the cover of calls. 170 00:11:38,576 --> 00:11:38,876 I know. 171 00:11:38,876 --> 00:11:39,266 That's where 172 00:11:39,266 --> 00:11:40,741 Brian: I, that's when I learned about Doci. 173 00:11:40,811 --> 00:11:41,381 Willa: Look at this. 174 00:11:42,161 --> 00:11:43,261 Um, but I've learned 175 00:11:43,261 --> 00:11:44,101 Brian: now two things from you. 176 00:11:44,251 --> 00:11:44,541 Okay. 177 00:11:44,576 --> 00:11:45,056 Willa: Amazing. 178 00:11:45,138 --> 00:11:45,438 and we're only 179 00:11:45,438 --> 00:11:46,128 Brian: like 10 minutes in. 180 00:11:47,268 --> 00:11:51,738 Willa: So McCulley cul, McCulley, Culkin and Brenda Song were on the cover of my first print issue. 181 00:11:51,738 --> 00:11:54,438 It was the first time a romantic couple was on the cover. 182 00:11:54,438 --> 00:12:01,938 And the reason I felt so that felt so instinctual to me is I wanted to really show that we're going back to the roots of Cosmo and. 183 00:12:02,238 --> 00:12:04,128 Love and relationships is part of our future. 184 00:12:04,428 --> 00:12:14,298 And we partnered with Bumble on this party and that's such a great, like a great example of like a partnership that really was a win on both sides and felt so organic to us. 185 00:12:14,298 --> 00:12:21,648 You know, JT performed and we had cool DJs perform and you know, they were people that were influential in the love and 186 00:12:21,648 --> 00:12:27,978 relationship space coming, but you know, of course the Bumble tie in really did make sense and helped and it was really fun. 187 00:12:28,338 --> 00:12:28,908 Yeah, and, 188 00:12:28,908 --> 00:12:39,238 Lisa: and I'd say that at that event, It was about cultural relevance too, and it's about brands, right through the lens of Willa's vision and Willa's brand. 189 00:12:39,958 --> 00:12:44,068 Being able to kind of come to life and celebrate with people in the audience. 190 00:12:44,378 --> 00:12:47,408 and we're doing another one next week, I think, right? 191 00:12:47,408 --> 00:12:48,188 Can we announce this one? 192 00:12:48,188 --> 00:12:48,368 Willa: Yeah. 193 00:12:48,368 --> 00:12:48,548 Yeah. 194 00:12:48,548 --> 00:12:49,238 Saturday. 195 00:12:49,238 --> 00:12:53,558 Um, we're doing a clothing sale at Depop, so you can come and buy some editors clothes. 196 00:12:53,558 --> 00:12:56,858 We have some talent, but another really exciting partnership, six months. 197 00:12:57,288 --> 00:12:58,308 dream Brand for us. 198 00:12:58,368 --> 00:13:00,318 McCulley Kin your favorite celebrity mm-hmm. 199 00:13:00,558 --> 00:13:03,483 Was actually wearing a shirt on the cover sourced from Depop. 200 00:13:03,488 --> 00:13:03,528 Okay. 201 00:13:04,188 --> 00:13:04,848 So cool. 202 00:13:04,908 --> 00:13:05,178 So 203 00:13:05,418 --> 00:13:06,498 Brian: Depop iss like a resale. 204 00:13:06,558 --> 00:13:06,888 Lisa: Yeah. 205 00:13:06,888 --> 00:13:08,808 But that's what's culturally relevant, right? 206 00:13:08,808 --> 00:13:13,578 Yeah, because for Gen Z, it's like they're totally obsessed with reselling. 207 00:13:14,028 --> 00:13:14,868 Willa: So yeah. 208 00:13:14,868 --> 00:13:18,698 On Depop, I mean, Depop is huge for Gen Z. and so the fact that we have. 209 00:13:19,028 --> 00:13:21,038 On the cover, there's an Hermes blanket. 210 00:13:21,218 --> 00:13:26,648 There's a Bodhi sweater, but then there's also a shirt source from Depop that really reflects how the audience is shopping. 211 00:13:27,013 --> 00:13:28,303 and so we did that organically. 212 00:13:28,303 --> 00:13:32,143 And then, you know, through it, we started speaking to Depop, and I'm so excited. 213 00:13:32,143 --> 00:13:34,243 I'm actually flying back a day early from Canne. 214 00:13:34,828 --> 00:13:36,058 To be there 'cause I'm so excited. 215 00:13:36,058 --> 00:13:36,268 Okay, 216 00:13:36,268 --> 00:13:36,628 Brian: great. 217 00:13:36,988 --> 00:13:40,678 so how do you compete with, with influencers and with TikTok? 218 00:13:40,678 --> 00:13:50,878 I mean, obviously you, you're, you're big on TikTok and you're gonna be on all of these platforms, but I think one of the big shifts that everyone is dealing with is, and you you're gonna 219 00:13:50,878 --> 00:14:00,148 see it like all week along the Crossette, like, is, you know, a lot of the movement has been from institutional brands into like individuals and. 220 00:14:00,523 --> 00:14:10,063 Creators right in, in your space and they have leaned into a more authentic, in quotes, like connection with the audience. 221 00:14:10,303 --> 00:14:13,843 I think the individual has a lot of advantages these days. 222 00:14:13,843 --> 00:14:21,093 We're just in a period where institutional, just institutions of all kinds are, trusted less. 223 00:14:21,496 --> 00:14:31,876 How do you end up thinking about the differentiation of like a, a brand with a lot of legacy like Cosmopolitan and leaning into that and, and taking advantage of that. 224 00:14:32,056 --> 00:14:38,196 But at the same time, you're competing with, a lot of other people that, Cosmo never used to compete with. 225 00:14:38,196 --> 00:14:41,316 It used to just be you're competing in your category with other publications. 226 00:14:42,096 --> 00:14:48,366 Willa: I, I think it's the reason that when I came in, my priority really was social, just because that is where the conversations are happening. 227 00:14:48,366 --> 00:14:50,826 But I, I don't find myself competing with influencers. 228 00:14:50,826 --> 00:14:55,386 I find myself being a platform for influencers and curating them carefully. 229 00:14:55,386 --> 00:14:59,106 And I think because everyone can be a voice, it also means no one's a voice. 230 00:14:59,226 --> 00:15:01,716 And so a place like Cosmo really gives the authority. 231 00:15:01,716 --> 00:15:08,196 And, you know, I, I, I speak to people when we put them on the cover, like it really means something and it can really give them. 232 00:15:08,856 --> 00:15:09,426 Authority. 233 00:15:09,426 --> 00:15:12,757 It can really give them credibility. 234 00:15:12,757 --> 00:15:14,227 Yeah, credibility is really the word. 235 00:15:14,327 --> 00:15:14,897 so thank you. 236 00:15:14,897 --> 00:15:17,814 But yeah, I think that credibility is unmatched. 237 00:15:17,874 --> 00:15:23,814 And that's something that you, having the Cosmo logo being on a newsstand, being on a digital cover, huge. 238 00:15:24,204 --> 00:15:26,844 Brian: Does a digital cover mean as much as like a regular cover? 239 00:15:26,874 --> 00:15:28,704 'cause it's just a photo on a website, right? 240 00:15:29,184 --> 00:15:33,564 Willa: I mean, everyone wants print, but we can make digital. 241 00:15:33,939 --> 00:15:34,209 Shy. 242 00:15:34,209 --> 00:15:34,509 We can make 243 00:15:34,509 --> 00:15:34,869 Brian: it bigger. 244 00:15:34,929 --> 00:15:36,939 Willa: Yeah, we can make it by our Gracie Abrams. 245 00:15:36,939 --> 00:15:38,589 Cover broke records. 246 00:15:38,589 --> 00:15:43,809 I think the whole first issue of Cosmopolitan reached 120 million people just on social. 247 00:15:44,169 --> 00:15:44,499 Brian: Okay. 248 00:15:44,829 --> 00:15:45,429 Pretty wild. 249 00:15:45,429 --> 00:15:46,179 I didn't know that either. 250 00:15:46,179 --> 00:15:47,289 That's another Okay, number 251 00:15:47,289 --> 00:15:47,529 Lisa: three. 252 00:15:48,579 --> 00:15:51,909 Um, I'll just add that like Willa herself is a tastemaker. 253 00:15:52,284 --> 00:15:59,484 And so influencers want the kind of credibility and the, the nod, you used a good word, curation. 254 00:15:59,664 --> 00:16:08,904 More and more that's what editors are doing and that's what our brands are doing is, and influencers kind of come and go and we're really trying to like talk about what's relevant in that moment. 255 00:16:09,204 --> 00:16:09,594 Brian: Yeah. 256 00:16:09,804 --> 00:16:10,974 Are you an influencer? 257 00:16:11,034 --> 00:16:11,274 Lisa: No. 258 00:16:11,873 --> 00:16:12,263 Brian: No. 259 00:16:12,803 --> 00:16:13,913 Willa: No, I, I'm an editor. 260 00:16:13,913 --> 00:16:14,543 It's different, 261 00:16:14,813 --> 00:16:16,463 Brian: but the job of editor is different. 262 00:16:16,463 --> 00:16:17,603 I mean, it's different in this space. 263 00:16:17,603 --> 00:16:22,673 I mean, obviously, Helen Curley Brown and Joanna Coles were just like both, you know, well known. 264 00:16:23,063 --> 00:16:35,633 But I almost think that, like, to lead one of these brands, you know, you, you, you have to be, yes, you have to be a, a, a good editor, but you need to be more like in, you are, you're part of like, blind date, for instance, right? 265 00:16:35,663 --> 00:16:41,003 I mean, oh, so you watch Blind Date, you're of course not the one with Doche, but like, uh. 266 00:16:41,949 --> 00:16:44,016 no, I mean, I look, we, let's, let's get into blind date. 267 00:16:44,046 --> 00:16:55,026 'cause I'm interested in sort of like, you know, you are going to be a a i, I feel like the role of quote unquote magazine editor is clearly different now than it was before. 268 00:16:55,356 --> 00:16:56,706 Willa: Yeah, I love this question. 269 00:16:56,867 --> 00:16:57,682 blind date's interesting. 270 00:16:57,977 --> 00:17:01,247 I, well, first to speak on your influencer point. 271 00:17:01,667 --> 00:17:06,077 For example, Amelia, who does Chicken shop date, she was on the cover of Cosmo uk. 272 00:17:06,077 --> 00:17:09,407 We ran it inside the Doche issue, actually, which you clearly haven't read. 273 00:17:09,407 --> 00:17:09,767 So 274 00:17:10,337 --> 00:17:11,147 Brian: I saw it online. 275 00:17:11,147 --> 00:17:11,717 I'm modern. 276 00:17:11,722 --> 00:17:11,892 Okay. 277 00:17:11,927 --> 00:17:12,227 Willa: Okay. 278 00:17:12,227 --> 00:17:12,827 Very cool. 279 00:17:12,827 --> 00:17:23,206 so that's a good example of someone like that who, you know, has her own platform and has her own empire, for lack of a better word, but she, she was so honored to be on the cover of Cosmo uk. 280 00:17:23,266 --> 00:17:25,756 Truly, every time I see her, she's like, thank you for that cover. 281 00:17:25,756 --> 00:17:27,196 Thank you for running inside the us. 282 00:17:27,511 --> 00:17:32,401 Because it gave her that authority and that it, it took her to a different level. 283 00:17:32,431 --> 00:17:40,051 So I, I will say that is a very concrete example of how public, like we are curating the influencers, but we aren't necessarily an influencer. 284 00:17:40,051 --> 00:17:44,641 And then on the topic of blind date, I feel like for me it was just very intuitive. 285 00:17:44,641 --> 00:17:49,891 It's like our audience is on these platforms, our audience are asking questions about. 286 00:17:50,371 --> 00:17:54,931 Love and relationships and blind date was something only Cosmo could do. 287 00:17:54,931 --> 00:17:56,401 And so basically it's me. 288 00:17:56,401 --> 00:18:04,621 For those of the you who don't know, I'm blindfolded and a guest comes in and it's a celebrity and I have to guess who it is. 289 00:18:04,621 --> 00:18:14,281 But in the process, I'm reading Old Cosmos and asking them to kind of think about the relationship advice cover lines that you mentioned included. 290 00:18:14,371 --> 00:18:16,261 And we really talk about and go back and forth. 291 00:18:16,261 --> 00:18:19,171 And I guess, and most of the time I'm wrong, sometimes I'm right. 292 00:18:19,586 --> 00:18:23,366 our first episode with Renee Rap, I think got 1.9 million views. 293 00:18:23,396 --> 00:18:24,056 It's crazy. 294 00:18:24,746 --> 00:18:26,276 Brian: And those are on YouTube mostly? 295 00:18:26,306 --> 00:18:26,786 Um, 296 00:18:26,846 --> 00:18:27,116 Willa: yeah. 297 00:18:27,116 --> 00:18:30,416 I like to think of it as like a video podcast. 298 00:18:30,446 --> 00:18:30,536 Mm-hmm. 299 00:18:30,871 --> 00:18:37,512 we were kind of talking about this before, but I, I feel like for our audience, podcasts are everything, but it's really the video formats. 300 00:18:37,512 --> 00:18:40,332 And so I was like, let's cut out the middle man and just make the video part. 301 00:18:40,332 --> 00:18:44,232 So it runs on YouTube, but it's the biggest on Instagram reels and TikTok. 302 00:18:44,952 --> 00:18:45,222 Brian: Okay. 303 00:18:45,222 --> 00:18:47,982 And, and let's talk about the commercial element of this. 304 00:18:47,982 --> 00:18:50,652 'cause you, you integrated, this is done with Elf, right? 305 00:18:51,442 --> 00:18:51,982 Lisa: yeah, blind. 306 00:18:52,072 --> 00:18:54,982 So ELF is the, initial underwriter or sponsor of it. 307 00:18:55,222 --> 00:18:59,962 And what's interesting is that this is also kind of something that's new for us. 308 00:19:00,092 --> 00:19:07,852 and I think for, for media companies overall is, brands and our editorial teams are working together in really interesting ways. 309 00:19:07,852 --> 00:19:10,413 So in this example, Willa is actually. 310 00:19:10,968 --> 00:19:16,338 In the, interstitial, in the ad creative, for Elf that's, in between the series. 311 00:19:16,338 --> 00:19:24,941 So it's, it's really collaborations and it's, you know, whether it's branded content, um, it's always slugged, right? 312 00:19:24,941 --> 00:19:32,561 So whether it's branded content, whether it's really kind of consulting and helping brands understand what's relevant in that moment. 313 00:19:32,561 --> 00:19:34,991 They go on calls with us, editors do. 314 00:19:35,286 --> 00:19:47,086 this type of a relationship is relatively new and it's because brands really do wanna connect on a, on a relevant, on a culturally relevant level with their audiences. 315 00:19:47,326 --> 00:19:50,026 And Willa and our brands help them do that, 316 00:19:50,476 --> 00:19:57,046 Willa: and Elf is the perfect brand for this because they're so innovative in how they, how they think about marketing. 317 00:19:57,116 --> 00:20:01,136 and so this was something I wanted to collaborate with them really badly and I'm so happy it happened. 318 00:20:01,511 --> 00:20:03,101 Because they're just the perfect integration. 319 00:20:03,131 --> 00:20:03,221 Yes. 320 00:20:03,221 --> 00:20:03,371 And 321 00:20:03,371 --> 00:20:04,451 Lisa: they do, they do. 322 00:20:04,721 --> 00:20:09,731 There's, there's another thing that brands help with too on the editorial side, and this is how we monetize it, right? 323 00:20:10,031 --> 00:20:24,189 If Ella, if, Willow wants to do a story, but we don't necessarily have the budget for it or the pages for it, if they find that marriage brands will underwrite a feature that she wants to do. 324 00:20:24,189 --> 00:20:26,319 So I don't know if you wanna talk about the Cosmos Sport 325 00:20:26,379 --> 00:20:26,979 Willa: feature, but Yeah. 326 00:20:27,009 --> 00:20:32,364 Cosmos Sports was something I. Again, instinctually knew we needed to launch. 327 00:20:32,364 --> 00:20:34,014 I think women's sports have blown up. 328 00:20:34,014 --> 00:20:35,364 I'm a huge WNBA fan. 329 00:20:35,874 --> 00:20:39,234 The last game with Caitlyn Clark was crazy, but I was watching our, I saw 330 00:20:39,234 --> 00:20:40,284 Brian: the logo threes. 331 00:20:40,344 --> 00:20:41,214 Willa: It's wild. 332 00:20:41,867 --> 00:20:50,177 Um, but for example, like our audience is so hungry for that, and they really do see Angel Reese in the same lens that they see Billie Eilish. 333 00:20:50,177 --> 00:20:51,557 Like they're really competing. 334 00:20:51,557 --> 00:20:52,337 They're celebrities. 335 00:20:52,337 --> 00:20:58,427 So our POV we sat in a room with, I sat in a room with the team and we brainstorm like, what is Cosmo's unique angle? 336 00:20:58,757 --> 00:21:01,337 On this phenomenon that's not going anywhere. 337 00:21:01,337 --> 00:21:05,567 It's only getting bigger and it's kind of our end goal is a day in a life. 338 00:21:05,567 --> 00:21:19,817 So we have a photographer follow a female athlete for an entire day and it's everything from like, you know, breakfast to going to bed going out, and it's really showing this unmatched access we had, and it was something I really wanted to do. 339 00:21:19,817 --> 00:21:21,647 But you know, editorial budgets are small. 340 00:21:22,036 --> 00:21:25,407 so I was so grateful that Coach was able to partner with us on it and mm-hmm. 341 00:21:25,797 --> 00:21:28,827 Now we have this amazing franchise that's just getting bigger and bigger. 342 00:21:28,947 --> 00:21:31,677 Brian: So on that, like how do you end up doing more with Less? 343 00:21:31,677 --> 00:21:32,037 Right? 344 00:21:32,127 --> 00:21:36,297 Because like, I think this is like the era of like the magazine memoir. 345 00:21:36,357 --> 00:21:38,037 Like there's a lot of people who are Yeah. 346 00:21:38,367 --> 00:21:42,087 Even o older than me who are coming out with their 'cause I miss this. 347 00:21:42,147 --> 00:21:54,097 you know, that, that media, you know, with all the bar carts in, in, in Conde and giving people luxury cars and writing off their vacation home mortgages sounds like an amazing business and they made money. 348 00:21:54,540 --> 00:21:55,132 it's different. 349 00:21:55,162 --> 00:21:57,022 I dunno if you noticed, it's a little different. 350 00:21:57,152 --> 00:21:57,722 Um, really? 351 00:21:58,052 --> 00:21:58,472 Yeah. 352 00:21:58,832 --> 00:21:59,432 Whoa. 353 00:21:59,612 --> 00:22:04,832 It's like if you were born, like you're teaching me something, 20 years earlier would've been amazing. 354 00:22:05,272 --> 00:22:08,002 but how do you end up doing more with less and what do you end up doing? 355 00:22:08,122 --> 00:22:09,622 Like literally less of it? 356 00:22:09,622 --> 00:22:12,682 I mean, obviously you're, you're publishing fewer. 357 00:22:13,297 --> 00:22:19,087 Fewer issues of the magazine, but talk to me about being an editor and just in the reality of this era. 358 00:22:19,237 --> 00:22:23,407 It's really weird 'cause I'm like looking out on like the Mediterranean when I'm talking about, it's kind of nice here too. 359 00:22:23,407 --> 00:22:24,277 Austerity measures. 360 00:22:25,657 --> 00:22:26,107 Willa: Yeah. 361 00:22:26,107 --> 00:22:36,187 I I, I never was part of that era, you know, I, I came up in social media at a time where like, there even social media editors, like, we're not even like in the print meetings. 362 00:22:36,187 --> 00:22:38,077 So it's like I, I've never had access to that. 363 00:22:38,077 --> 00:22:38,677 I don't miss it. 364 00:22:38,677 --> 00:22:39,457 I don't know it. 365 00:22:39,697 --> 00:22:42,007 However, obviously I've read all the books. 366 00:22:42,512 --> 00:22:44,809 and I don't, I are like, where's my town 367 00:22:44,814 --> 00:22:44,994 Brian: car? 368 00:22:45,169 --> 00:22:53,659 Willa: There's like, there, there, no, but there's like part of me that's like, yeah, if I could have a private jet for every single photo shoot, there would be a private jet in every photo shoot. 369 00:22:53,659 --> 00:22:55,789 Like, how cool that I, I can't lean on that. 370 00:22:55,789 --> 00:23:01,339 I think creatively it just, it makes me really e everything we're doing has to be intentional, basically. 371 00:23:01,729 --> 00:23:04,369 Like there's no time for excess. 372 00:23:04,369 --> 00:23:05,359 We don't do reshoots. 373 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,699 Like, it's just a different, different time. 374 00:23:07,699 --> 00:23:11,179 And I think that's really exciting as a creative and a writer because. 375 00:23:11,554 --> 00:23:13,204 You know, we, we can't spend loads of money. 376 00:23:13,324 --> 00:23:17,674 but yeah, also, I mean, I think again, like print covers are more sparse. 377 00:23:17,674 --> 00:23:18,754 It means something different. 378 00:23:18,754 --> 00:23:23,344 So I, I think with every argument it's also positive creatively. 379 00:23:23,644 --> 00:23:23,854 Brian: Yeah. 380 00:23:24,304 --> 00:23:29,314 So talk about like how you use the, the, the print to be, it's like something bigger. 381 00:23:29,344 --> 00:23:38,104 'cause I feel like, you know, print's role has changed a lot, obviously, and, and now, and now you want to like, make a splash with print. 382 00:23:38,104 --> 00:23:39,394 It's not about like. 383 00:23:39,934 --> 00:23:43,744 Being the main way that you connect with the audience? 384 00:23:43,744 --> 00:23:44,464 I don't think anymore. 385 00:23:44,614 --> 00:23:45,094 Definitely 386 00:23:45,094 --> 00:23:45,514 Lisa: not. 387 00:23:45,584 --> 00:23:59,208 our, our, digital audience, just to give you an idea, we have 68 brands around the world, 28 languages, 47 countries, digital print, social events, the whole gamut. 388 00:23:59,508 --> 00:24:01,998 But our digital is bigger than our print. 389 00:24:02,028 --> 00:24:07,548 Our digital is 550 million people on our website, roughly the same on social. 390 00:24:07,548 --> 00:24:10,158 550 million people on social. 391 00:24:10,488 --> 00:24:13,518 Our print is about less than 200 million. 392 00:24:13,928 --> 00:24:18,308 and so we, you know, we think about print, like I said, moments. 393 00:24:18,338 --> 00:24:24,158 It's like, how do we kind of break through and how do we have this almost like this long form moment? 394 00:24:24,458 --> 00:24:27,968 But what we're doing is publishing 24 7 every day. 395 00:24:28,208 --> 00:24:32,108 And you are right when you ask the question like, how do editors do it? 396 00:24:32,108 --> 00:24:33,908 Because it is, you have to make choices. 397 00:24:34,118 --> 00:24:36,128 You can't do everything right. 398 00:24:36,128 --> 00:24:39,278 We can't be on every platform with every brand. 399 00:24:39,278 --> 00:24:44,708 And so a lot of work goes into kind of being intentional about where we show up. 400 00:24:45,038 --> 00:24:49,478 And so print is not as big for us as it used to be. 401 00:24:49,598 --> 00:24:53,408 It's definitely much smaller business than digital now for us. 402 00:24:53,903 --> 00:25:01,139 And, and so I think we think about it, but we think about it as something special, not something that is kind of primary. 403 00:25:01,499 --> 00:25:01,829 Brian: Yeah. 404 00:25:02,039 --> 00:25:05,399 But like, I guess what I'm getting at is like, how do you make it like bigger? 405 00:25:05,459 --> 00:25:07,949 Like, I mean, do you attach it to like events? 406 00:25:08,113 --> 00:25:08,863 Lisa: well, yes. 407 00:25:08,863 --> 00:25:09,523 I mean, you wanna 408 00:25:09,523 --> 00:25:10,873 Willa: talk about the love issue because that was Yeah. 409 00:25:11,323 --> 00:25:11,713 Yeah. 410 00:25:11,803 --> 00:25:17,173 Here's, here's my thought and I, I'm coming from a social video background, so I will preface it with that. 411 00:25:17,173 --> 00:25:19,723 So we have McCulley Kin and Brenda Song on the cover. 412 00:25:19,723 --> 00:25:20,593 It's the first time. 413 00:25:20,878 --> 00:25:31,528 A romantic couple has ever been on the cover of Cosmopolitan Made History and my POV was like, I lined it up the print date with Valentine's Day. 414 00:25:31,528 --> 00:25:33,838 So it actually hit stands on February 14th. 415 00:25:33,868 --> 00:25:42,878 And the objective to this team, and you know, we all gathered, was how do we make Cosmopolitan synonymous, synonymous with Valentine's Day? 416 00:25:42,968 --> 00:25:45,488 And so we did that through a couple different ways. 417 00:25:45,488 --> 00:25:49,058 You know, we had a kiss cam in Times Square where we actually were getting. 418 00:25:49,583 --> 00:25:52,523 Live footage of couples and we were posting it. 419 00:25:52,733 --> 00:26:00,473 We had a digital cover come out immediately after Brenda Song and McCulley Culkin, and it was Gracie Abrams who very influential. 420 00:26:00,473 --> 00:26:01,103 Do you know who that is? 421 00:26:01,708 --> 00:26:01,928 Brian: No. 422 00:26:02,333 --> 00:26:02,423 Willa: No. 423 00:26:03,053 --> 00:26:05,573 Well, people talk about Taylor Swift a lot on your podcast. 424 00:26:05,573 --> 00:26:05,843 I'm not gonna 425 00:26:05,843 --> 00:26:06,173 Brian: lie to you, will. 426 00:26:07,253 --> 00:26:09,323 Willa: And Gracie opened for Taylor Swift. 427 00:26:09,323 --> 00:26:12,413 So, okay, now you're three in a row talking about Taylor Swift. 428 00:26:12,413 --> 00:26:12,683 Got it. 429 00:26:12,833 --> 00:26:14,333 I had to, I just had to slip that in. 430 00:26:14,423 --> 00:26:15,623 That was my internal goal. 431 00:26:15,683 --> 00:26:16,103 And just 432 00:26:16,103 --> 00:26:19,433 Lisa: going back to the KISS camp, that was on a billboard in Times Square. 433 00:26:19,433 --> 00:26:19,493 Yeah. 434 00:26:19,493 --> 00:26:20,843 So that's like massive rage. 435 00:26:21,363 --> 00:26:23,823 Willa: we had Serena Cordell from Love Island. 436 00:26:23,853 --> 00:26:26,363 There are two celebrity stars and reality TV stars. 437 00:26:26,363 --> 00:26:30,563 And I felt really strongly that we were gonna be the first publication to shoot them in a very. 438 00:26:31,043 --> 00:26:31,463 Serious. 439 00:26:31,493 --> 00:26:35,093 Like take them really seriously, put them in high fashion and have a full editorial. 440 00:26:35,303 --> 00:26:41,633 So, you know, we had these moments where we were rolling it out throughout the week and the, and it all ended on Valentine's Day. 441 00:26:41,963 --> 00:26:42,923 So it was a moment. 442 00:26:43,193 --> 00:26:45,443 And then of course we had the love ball with Bumble. 443 00:26:45,623 --> 00:26:48,443 We had a crumble cookie collaboration. 444 00:26:48,683 --> 00:26:54,503 We had these fun popups in this organic way that made sense to our audience. 445 00:26:54,503 --> 00:26:56,963 And of course the buzz came from it, but we never. 446 00:26:57,428 --> 00:26:59,318 Set out to create buzz. 447 00:26:59,318 --> 00:27:01,208 Like we don't, I, I get that question a lot. 448 00:27:01,418 --> 00:27:02,318 Mm-hmm. 449 00:27:02,558 --> 00:27:03,248 Like, how do you create buzz? 450 00:27:03,248 --> 00:27:05,708 And I'm like, you don't create buzz by saying you're gonna create buzz. 451 00:27:05,708 --> 00:27:09,368 You just make content that actually resonates and like actually means something. 452 00:27:09,638 --> 00:27:12,548 And I think that was the goal of the love issue. 453 00:27:12,728 --> 00:27:14,408 Brian: So what do you deprioritize then? 454 00:27:15,338 --> 00:27:16,418 Willa: It's all about focus. 455 00:27:16,568 --> 00:27:23,378 You really, it's not about deprioritizing, it's about focusing on what's important and knowing what is right for the brand. 456 00:27:23,378 --> 00:27:26,948 And a lot of it's instinctual, like there's no magic. 457 00:27:27,488 --> 00:27:31,568 Where you don't just like sprinkle fairy dust and you know what to do, but it's very instinctual. 458 00:27:31,568 --> 00:27:34,448 Like it felt very instinctual that Cosmo needed a dating show. 459 00:27:34,718 --> 00:27:37,448 It felt very instinctual that we need to show up in sports. 460 00:27:37,898 --> 00:27:42,428 And of course when we get brands on board, that just makes it bigger and more exciting. 461 00:27:42,518 --> 00:27:42,759 Yeah, and, 462 00:27:42,848 --> 00:27:46,838 Lisa: and you talk a lot about this, but, but I'm gonna kind of steal your phrase. 463 00:27:46,838 --> 00:27:48,728 Willis says, the audience is my boss. 464 00:27:48,968 --> 00:27:54,398 So I think if we're prioritizing, it's where that audience wants to see the brand show up. 465 00:27:54,984 --> 00:27:55,284 Brian: Yeah. 466 00:27:55,494 --> 00:28:04,584 So it seems like, like is, are TikTok and Instagram now, like, like how do you end up thinking about like these platforms versus the magazine? 467 00:28:04,584 --> 00:28:14,994 Like I, I assume like before it was, you know, I used to call like matching luggage and, and stuff and ad campaigns, but like, you know, it was like, okay, how do we express the magazine through these digital channels? 468 00:28:15,384 --> 00:28:18,324 And that has to be different now. 469 00:28:18,414 --> 00:28:22,164 Like, and so do you end up, are those almost like more important 470 00:28:22,164 --> 00:28:22,974 Willa: than the magazine? 471 00:28:23,394 --> 00:28:26,244 No, it's all part of the ecosystem you're creating. 472 00:28:26,344 --> 00:28:29,854 but I, I, I felt this way throughout my career. 473 00:28:29,854 --> 00:28:33,304 Like you should not post the same piece of content across every platform. 474 00:28:33,304 --> 00:28:34,474 Like that just doesn't work. 475 00:28:34,534 --> 00:28:35,704 The audience is smart. 476 00:28:36,304 --> 00:28:41,314 You need to create platform specific content and create content that works. 477 00:28:41,314 --> 00:28:46,174 One of the first things I did when I started at Cosmos, I was like, we're not using Instagram to drive traffic. 478 00:28:46,174 --> 00:28:47,044 We're using Instagram to. 479 00:28:47,569 --> 00:28:54,739 Create engagement and start real conversations, and our engagement is up 50% and TikTok iss up 70%. 480 00:28:55,159 --> 00:28:56,299 So it, it's working. 481 00:28:56,299 --> 00:28:59,029 You just have to, you're kind of like a content creator. 482 00:28:59,029 --> 00:29:01,639 The social team, like they're turning out content. 483 00:29:01,639 --> 00:29:07,339 They're looking at the Gracie Abrams story and being like, this clip is gonna go on TikTok, but this one's gonna go on 484 00:29:07,339 --> 00:29:07,939 Lisa: Instagram. 485 00:29:08,584 --> 00:29:14,554 And on the monetization side, on social, we're up on what we call organic social, which is the on platform. 486 00:29:14,554 --> 00:29:20,194 Again, not trying to drive people back, but on platform, whether it's an interstitial in reels or something in the feed up. 487 00:29:20,194 --> 00:29:23,374 150% first half this year over last year. 488 00:29:23,584 --> 00:29:28,114 So we're kind of traveling along with her growth on the brand, on social. 489 00:29:28,594 --> 00:29:30,214 So does the revenue opportunity, 490 00:29:30,724 --> 00:29:35,254 Brian: so does at some point like Instagram, like become like. 491 00:29:35,974 --> 00:29:38,224 A bigger revenue driver than the magazine. 492 00:29:38,884 --> 00:29:51,784 Lisa: I'll tell you, I just got back from Asia and we have a big, presence for L in China and social is bigger than any other revenue stream in China. 493 00:29:51,964 --> 00:30:00,154 So it depends on the market, it depends on the audience, but yes, in some places it is bigger and it is important and only getting more important. 494 00:30:00,154 --> 00:30:02,794 It's how we're discovering new readers are finding us. 495 00:30:03,619 --> 00:30:09,319 Brian: Yeah, I wanna talk a little bit about Aura, because you guys are, I was just, Mike was, was giving me a little demo. 496 00:30:09,319 --> 00:30:10,789 We, you guys were there with it. 497 00:30:10,849 --> 00:30:10,939 Yeah. 498 00:30:10,939 --> 00:30:13,959 You, you should all do the demo with Mike, at, at his iPad. 499 00:30:14,379 --> 00:30:15,969 but talk to a little bit about like Aura. 500 00:30:15,969 --> 00:30:18,759 'cause we had talked about it here like a couple, a couple years ago. 501 00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:21,609 It's, it's your first party data like solution and. 502 00:30:22,619 --> 00:30:29,669 talk to me about this next evolution with with Aura Insights, because to me it sort of fits in with the like more with less in that. 503 00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:36,935 Like you have to be able to, you have to be able to like to, to just get to a solution like quicker. 504 00:30:36,965 --> 00:30:42,175 Like there's a, there's a lot that goes into the publishing process, that needs to get more efficient. 505 00:30:42,475 --> 00:30:42,775 Lisa: Yeah. 506 00:30:42,775 --> 00:30:45,415 And, and some people may not be familiar with Aura. 507 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:53,970 so last year to your point, we launched Aura as a targeting tool and that takes contextual signals, behavioral signals, and predictive AI 508 00:30:53,970 --> 00:31:03,391 signals and allows us to, in a really relevant way, deliver the ads, for advertisers against our content that is gonna make it perform the best. 509 00:31:03,541 --> 00:31:10,511 And it's kind of far and away, better than audience or demo targeting any other type of targeting that we're doing. 510 00:31:10,511 --> 00:31:12,611 So you're getting double digit increases. 511 00:31:12,911 --> 00:31:13,541 From that. 512 00:31:13,601 --> 00:31:22,361 And then when you add formats to that, because it's targeting and creative, you're talking about much greater, you're talking about double the performance. 513 00:31:22,541 --> 00:31:25,421 So, so the, our targeting was the first step. 514 00:31:25,841 --> 00:31:30,681 Our iq, which is what you just saw, is really an intelligence engine. 515 00:31:30,801 --> 00:31:33,201 It's a recom, it's going to be a recommendation engine. 516 00:31:33,201 --> 00:31:41,511 But this first phase of it is really helping us by crawling, using AI to crawl all of our content across all of our brands. 517 00:31:41,841 --> 00:31:47,571 It's giving us, it's extracting the trends and informing what we recommend to our clients. 518 00:31:47,721 --> 00:31:53,001 And so it does, you know, your question was about really efficiency and about more with less. 519 00:31:53,331 --> 00:31:59,361 It does help us really kind of organize our people toward higher order work. 520 00:31:59,361 --> 00:31:59,631 Yeah. 521 00:31:59,631 --> 00:32:06,471 So that they can both be faster and kind of use the data to make the recommendation. 522 00:32:06,471 --> 00:32:10,521 So we've kind of harnessed that in a way that really, I don't think any other publisher has. 523 00:32:10,836 --> 00:32:11,046 Brian: Okay. 524 00:32:11,046 --> 00:32:13,871 So it's mostly like an internal like tool for now? 525 00:32:13,891 --> 00:32:14,586 Yes, for now. 526 00:32:14,736 --> 00:32:15,096 Right. 527 00:32:15,216 --> 00:32:23,796 Because I think, you know, one of the big themes of this week was this was, like I said, this was an agency like event for, for the longest time. 528 00:32:23,796 --> 00:32:29,886 And it's, this started with a bunch of like French ad ad agencies wanting to do, wanting to give awards to each other. 529 00:32:29,936 --> 00:32:31,376 the agency business is changing. 530 00:32:31,646 --> 00:32:32,486 Oh my God. 531 00:32:32,866 --> 00:32:35,866 and so, you know, they all wanna be AI companies, right. 532 00:32:35,866 --> 00:32:36,286 And. 533 00:32:36,736 --> 00:32:47,536 I think the publishers are always downstream of, of all the tech changes that are coming and like how, how do you see that changing how you go to market? 534 00:32:47,536 --> 00:32:51,766 Because they wanna, they wanna automate everything, the creative, everything. 535 00:32:51,796 --> 00:32:57,616 And so to me it seems like publishers are gonna become more like the ad agencies Were. 536 00:32:58,005 --> 00:33:07,475 Lisa: Yeah, I mean we, yes, and, I'll say more of our business, and this is relevant, but, I have to start with this as a, a foundational layer. 537 00:33:07,745 --> 00:33:12,965 More of our business is direct than programmatic agencies are focusing a lot more on programmatic these days. 538 00:33:13,535 --> 00:33:20,475 And, you know, direct for us means we're, we're literally kind of with our clients all the time. 539 00:33:20,815 --> 00:33:28,525 and so that deep relationship that we've had for decades is really about helping them figure out how to connect with our audiences in the most relevant way. 540 00:33:28,705 --> 00:33:42,835 So every business is changing, not just agencies, but I think what we're very focused on is our proprietary first party data that is privacy safe and that, you know, really we can control in our ecosystem. 541 00:33:43,075 --> 00:33:48,685 And it's, the data when you extract it is incredibly valuable because it's interest based. 542 00:33:48,910 --> 00:33:51,190 Data, it's intent based data. 543 00:33:51,370 --> 00:34:01,607 So we'll take signals from, not only our content right, and what somebody's reading, but we'll take signals from an affiliate link that someone is clicking on. 544 00:34:01,607 --> 00:34:04,607 So we know that there is intent to buy that product. 545 00:34:04,667 --> 00:34:13,867 And actually here at can, we're announcing a partnership with Amazon that is, harnessing both our intent signals and their purchase signals. 546 00:34:13,867 --> 00:34:17,077 And so through the Amazon DSP, you can buy auras. 547 00:34:17,647 --> 00:34:18,097 That way. 548 00:34:18,097 --> 00:34:33,657 So I think, we are finding ways whether, you know it's agencies or whether through, whether it's through agencies or whether it's direct with clients to really in a privacy safe way, offer a, a solution that can be, super effective for them. 549 00:34:33,957 --> 00:34:34,287 Brian: Yeah. 550 00:34:34,597 --> 00:34:35,587 last thing, Willa. 551 00:34:35,677 --> 00:34:38,077 I think, are you like geriatric Gen Z or are you 552 00:34:38,977 --> 00:34:40,177 Willa: I'm 30, so I'm a millennial. 553 00:34:40,177 --> 00:34:40,447 Oh my gosh. 554 00:34:41,137 --> 00:34:42,097 Brian: Are, you're so, so. 555 00:34:42,102 --> 00:34:42,162 Okay. 556 00:34:42,167 --> 00:34:42,877 I'm a millennial. 557 00:34:42,907 --> 00:34:43,297 Okay. 558 00:34:43,597 --> 00:34:43,922 Um, through and through. 559 00:34:44,797 --> 00:34:45,187 All right. 560 00:34:45,187 --> 00:34:48,937 So I'll still ask you about Jeff, like when you do talk with brands. 561 00:34:48,967 --> 00:34:56,947 'cause I think the big challenge for a lot of brands just and going forward in ai, I think is gonna just, exacerbate this is how 562 00:34:56,947 --> 00:35:05,772 they become culturally relevant in a kind of like, I am gonna use all these overused buzzwords, but it's can, in an authentic way. 563 00:35:05,772 --> 00:35:06,222 Right? 564 00:35:06,252 --> 00:35:09,072 Like, and a lot of times I think that's difficult. 565 00:35:09,102 --> 00:35:10,992 Like particularly when, when reaching. 566 00:35:11,562 --> 00:35:12,882 You know, younger people. 567 00:35:13,327 --> 00:35:16,092 So what, what, what, like what do you end up like advising them? 568 00:35:16,912 --> 00:35:23,332 Willa: to listen to, like, to really listen to your audience, like truly, like really think audience first and think platform specific. 569 00:35:23,332 --> 00:35:27,952 Don't just jump on a trend, but really, really think long term about it. 570 00:35:27,952 --> 00:35:29,302 What makes sense for your brand? 571 00:35:29,332 --> 00:35:33,652 And you know, there's some TikTok trends that like Cosmo won't touch with a 10 foot pole. 572 00:35:33,652 --> 00:35:40,282 It's not our space that we have nothing to add, but again, intentionality and the readers are my boss truly. 573 00:35:41,017 --> 00:35:42,007 Brian: Okay, cool. 574 00:35:42,227 --> 00:35:44,207 I'm gonna leave it there if anyone has any questions. 575 00:35:44,207 --> 00:35:46,127 I think you guys feel questions. 576 00:35:46,127 --> 00:35:46,607 It's too late now. 577 00:35:46,947 --> 00:35:47,277 Yeah. 578 00:35:47,617 --> 00:35:55,297 Audience 1: Willa, one of the things that we have been seeing a lot with young audiences is a move towards, uh, a fascination with a collection of physical media. 579 00:35:56,287 --> 00:36:03,817 What's Cosmo doing to build a portfolio of physical  collectible, media, et cetera, aside from course that capitalized on print? 580 00:36:04,452 --> 00:36:05,172 Willa: Uh, that's amazing. 581 00:36:05,172 --> 00:36:06,552 So, two things I wanna highlight. 582 00:36:06,602 --> 00:36:10,042 one Doci, who is the most recent cover of Cosmos. 583 00:36:10,042 --> 00:36:12,862 She's an amazing performer, singer. 584 00:36:12,922 --> 00:36:17,599 so lucky to have her, her big motif in her work is the alligator, right? 585 00:36:17,779 --> 00:36:21,499 So we found this coffee shop in New York. 586 00:36:21,739 --> 00:36:24,349 That is called Do Not Feed the Alligators. 587 00:36:24,379 --> 00:36:29,419 And we actually did a popup there where we had magazines and we, we got people to sign up. 588 00:36:29,419 --> 00:36:31,429 It was a membership play for us. 589 00:36:31,499 --> 00:36:32,219 and it was so fun. 590 00:36:32,219 --> 00:36:35,759 All these readers swarmed there and it, it really felt like a community. 591 00:36:35,759 --> 00:36:44,759 I I, to use another buzzword, like it really, like Cosmo readers were like coming out of the woodwork to come and sign up and become a member of Cosmo. 592 00:36:44,759 --> 00:36:45,779 So that's one thing. 593 00:36:45,779 --> 00:36:47,069 We also had hats there. 594 00:36:47,419 --> 00:36:51,109 we have a Cosmo hat, which maybe you've seen people have worn. 595 00:36:51,109 --> 00:36:52,159 You cannot purchase it. 596 00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:54,139 It's really just for loyal readers. 597 00:36:54,189 --> 00:36:54,999 so that's one thing. 598 00:36:55,419 --> 00:36:59,829 and, and you know, Depop is another great example of like, we're showing up. 599 00:36:59,889 --> 00:37:03,699 it's connected to the print magazine, but it really is a physical event and a space. 600 00:37:04,302 --> 00:37:05,202 Brian: All right, cool. 601 00:37:05,232 --> 00:37:06,072 We're gonna end it there. 602 00:37:06,077 --> 00:37:06,387 Thank you both. 603 00:37:06,387 --> 00:37:06,667 Cool. 604 00:37:06,757 --> 00:37:07,227 Thank you all. 605 00:37:07,317 --> 00:37:07,747 Lisa: Thank you. 606 00:37:07,977 --> 00:37:08,827 Have fun at can.