Aoife O'Brien [00:00:06]:

Recording in progress. Do you think that you're earning enough money, or do you feel like you could be earning more? Today's episode of the Happier at Work podcast, we talk about a taboo subject. So we're talking all about money, and in particular, we're talking about salaries and salary negotiation. I'm your host, Aoife O'Brien. I'm going to share some of my own personal stories. I'm also going to share some practical tips that you can take away and put into action straight away. So let's start with what what is the big deal with salary negotiation? I think it's important to underline the fact that we don't necessarily talk about these things out in the open, especially us women. I don't know about men.

Aoife O'Brien [00:00:48]:

Do do they have a few pints down the pub and and talk about how much money they're earning? But certainly women, it's kind of a taboo subject. We don't necessarily share that kind of information with each other. And I think this is something that can hold us back. So the purpose of this episode is to be really transparent about my own career and the salary negotiations where I've been successful and the ones where I've also failed. So first of all, kind of getting that bedded down. The other thing that I wanted to say before we get into the conversation is that my whole philosophy around happier at work is not about money. You don't have to get paid more money to be happier at work. And actually, the reality is oftentimes when we are paid more money, it kind of reduces our happiness because our joy at work actually comes from the intrinsic nature of the work that we do.

Aoife O'Brien [00:01:40]:

If you don't know about my happier at work, framework, you can there's a a link to a previous episode of the podcast that I'll put below, which explains all of the different pillars associated with driving that happiness at work. So the thing with money is that we need to feel like we're being paid fairly when we're compared to our peers, when we're compared to the market, and when we feel intrinsically that the value that we bring to an organization matches that. Another thing that I want to reiterate with this is oftentimes when we're in the wrong job, we feel like we're getting paid not enough money because it's a struggle and it's a challenge and maybe your boss isn't great and it feels really difficult and we feel like we should be paid more because it's so hard. And when we're really happy in work, we feel like we're being overpaid. Like, I'm so happy. I can't believe they're paying me, and they're paying me this amount to do this job. So I just wanted to kinda highlight those aspects of it as well. So when it comes to my own salary negotiation history, my biggest recollection is a big mistake that I made when I first moved to London and, I had a kind of a vague idea of the market rates based on what I could see from job ads and things like that.

Aoife O'Brien [00:03:04]:

But when it came to discussing salary, I said 26 or 27,000. Now bear in mind, this is early career. I'll just put a caveat there. Early career. So 26 or £27,000 sterling. And so they said, okay. Well, we'll offer you 26. Now the mistake there was I gave a range and I said 26 or 20 7, and they went for the lower amount.

Aoife O'Brien [00:03:28]:

So when you're having these conversations, maybe you can have a range in your head, but you don't necessarily have to say the range. You can go always for the higher number. Now the other thing to mention about this was, as it turns out, as an external hire and someone who haven't come through their graduate program, I was actually being paid more than the graduates. And so they ended up fixing all of the salaries for the people who had come through the graduate program. That's a slight aside there. So they did do the right thing in terms of salary. In that same organisation, a few years later, one of my bosses proactively increased my salary because she could see just how much work and so just how much value I was adding to the organization as well. So, you know, bosses can be good in that way, and that's not the first time that's happened either, by the way.

Aoife O'Brien [00:04:21]:

Or sorry. Not the only time that it's happened. It has happened subsequently as well where a boss in Australia proactively increased my salary by 50% because he could see the value that I was bringing to the team. So, you know, sometimes bosses notice these things and that and those are memories that will stay with me forever. Bosses who were really, really on my side, who really had my back, so I really appreciate that still. Now one of my really successful negotiation tactics, if you like, it wasn't even a tactic. I wasn't thinking of it like that. But when again, this happened in Australia and when I moved there and I didn't really know the market rates, I was looking online to see what the job ads were saying.

Aoife O'Brien [00:05:05]:

I was asking my friends who worked there around how much money should I should I be asking for. And they were saying, oh, in and the in and around $80,000. And I thought, okay. 80,000, that seems reasonable. But you know what? I'm gonna go in here. And if they ask me about salary, I'm gonna say a hundred thousand. And this was before the whole 6 k or 6 figure salary kind of trends that I'm seeing now. It was really the value that I felt that I could bring to the organization, the experience that I had.

Aoife O'Brien [00:05:36]:

And to be honest, a little bit of chance in my arm as well to see if I ask for this, will they actually give it to me? And you know what? They did and more. So they paid me a hundred and $5,000. I was absolutely blown away that I actually was earning this amount of money. It went a long way. It was a really great exchange rate at the time with Ireland as well. So I was really happy with this. The caveat here is that the whole time I was thinking, is this, a clerical error? Is there something going on? What's actually happening here? You know, do they make a mistake? So the old imposter syndrome, before I even knew what imposter syndrome was, I felt like that was something that was kind of on my back the whole time. Oh, they're going to realise that they've made this mistake and it was a total error.

Aoife O'Brien [00:06:27]:

They weren't supposed to send me that contract at all. So be careful when you're doing things like that that you and again, you know, since that time, I've learned all about money mindset and learned about how to how to approach these things and how to feel worthy about the amount of money that you're earning as well. So definitely, if you're asking for that amount of money, be sure that you are you feel really safe actually receiving it. And that's one of the things. And then also what I learned from this is just just ask, you know, just go in with that high number. All they can do is say no. All they can do is say, well, actually, the salary band for this role is between this and this. And again, another caveat with this, that company in question didn't actually have any salary bands.

Aoife O'Brien [00:07:15]:

So I was lucky in that I could ask for an amount and people at a higher level than me were could could have been earning less than than I was. So, that was kind of that was a really positive experience around negotiation. Now, again, another time that I feel like I failed when it came to it was when I was promoted to a more senior position in the organization. But my boss said that because I wasn't increasing the number of people that were in my team that I didn't deserve to get more money. Now I'm looking back at that time and I'm thinking that is total and utter b s and I don't know why I took it. And even when I could show the value that my team brought and the the pressure that we were under to deliver and bringing an additional person in the team. I didn't even think to go back to him because I thought it was just such a poor excuse of not giving me more money. Now this boss in question was a penny pincher.

Aoife O'Brien [00:08:15]:

I'm looking back now thinking he all he wanted to do was drive the, drive the margins that we had relative to one of the other, areas that we were kind of competing against. So he was all about margin. He wasn't about creating well-being or happiness at work, or he wasn't about really focusing on the people and how to how to support the people there. Now I didn't I did end up leaving that role eventually, but I think that is one of the contributing factors. Like, I felt really undervalued by the fact that, oh, you've promoted me, but you won't match that with increasing my salary because you're using all of these poor excuses. So that's that's a time that I I felt I really failed. Now I have stories from other people as well where when joining an organisation, this person asked for a specific or sorry, they that they were offered a specific amount. And they were given that amount.

Aoife O'Brien [00:09:20]:

And then when it came to salary negotiation, they almost immediately asked for a raise, but actually there were blockers in place where they couldn't ask for a raise immediately. That was the salary that had been agreed. And how the entire performance review system worked was that the performance reviews were done in November. The discussions were had in March, and the pay increases didn't go through till October. And if you do the calculations on that, at the time that he started, he didn't have enough time to get the salary increase in that was would have been discussed in the March. So he ended up having to wait almost two years before he was entitled to ask for a salary increase. So these are kind of watch outs that we need to bear in mind. There was also someone else in my network who threatened to leave essentially, in order to get a pay rise.

Aoife O'Brien [00:10:20]:

Now I don't condone this kind of behavior. I don't think it sets a good tone. I think it it causes a a little bit of friction within it could be within the team or with your manager, but it was one way that she was able to negotiate, an increased salary for what she thought she was worth. And to be fair, she did bring a lot of evidence to the table about why she deserved that amount of money. Now when it comes to thinking about the strategy and how you're gonna approach having that salary negotiation, I think it's really important to consider the timing. So timing is really important. If you think about whether it's a promotion, it's, it could be, a new job offer that you've got. It could be, again, going back to this idea of the performance appraisal or the performance review, that's the optimal time to have that salary negotiation.

Aoife O'Brien [00:11:14]:

Maybe you've had a major win. You just won a client or you just renewed a contract or you just increase the client spend, something like that. Or maybe there's a restructure in the organization, and that's the opportunity to have a conversation about your salary. The other thing that I wanted to mention in relation to this is just being aware of what the process is in your own specific organization. Sometimes there are exceptional circumstances but for the most part there's there's quite a rigid process that you need to follow and it's only done at certain times of the year outside of when promotions happen and and things like that. Recording in progress. From the conversations that I've had recently, even people in very senior positions find it difficult to negotiate their salary. They might find it a breeze to negotiate with clients, to negotiate million and billion dollar contracts, but actually when it comes to themselves and how they see themselves as as what they're worth.

Aoife O'Brien [00:12:16]:

They're attaching money to their worthiness. We have problems then when it's coming to negotiate. Well, what are we actually going to charge for our our brain, our hands, our heart that we're going to bring to this organization? So I just wanted to address that by saying, if you feel like you are not very good at this, then you definitely are not alone, and it's something I just wanted to address. Now another tactic that you can use is to ask for what the band is. So the band, typically, we will have bands and it will be like you know, it could be a range of ten or fifteen thousand, the difference between the lower end of the band and the higher end of the band. But asking what that band is, helps you to understand the value of the role, but it also helps you to forget what what your previous role was paying and focuses more on what the future role will offer. Now like I said earlier, a lot of companies are advertising this in their promotional materials or in their, in their job ads and things like that. So, you know, at least in advance, if it's something that is lower than your salary, you're not even going to apply for it.

Aoife O'Brien [00:13:26]:

But if it's something that's around the same and you're happy to take that, that's okay. The other thing I wanted to say about bands, and this happens with promotions as well, like the assumption is if you're in the middle of a band and then you get promoted that you'll be in the middle of the other band, sometimes organisations, again, they will lowball you and say, we're putting you at the lower end of this new band because it's a promotion and you haven't had experience in this yet. I've had this happen to me before, and it's really disheartening and demotivating because you haven't had the opportunity to prove yourself in the new role. But if you can go with a counterargument after a period of time in the new role to show this is the value that I'm bringing, and that's the other aspect I wanted to share is knowing not just the, the market. You need to understand what the market is being paid, but the impact that you're having in the organization and having really solid numbers. And companies especially love time savings and money savings. So where have you made things more efficient? Where have you saved the company money? And being able to bring real facts to them to have that discussion. The last thing that I want to leave you with is it doesn't all have to be about money.

Aoife O'Brien [00:14:41]:

So you could get a bonus well, bonus is money, but but it doesn't have to be about the the salary. You can, negotiate a bonus based on performance. You can also ask for stock options. You can ask for additional time off or flexible working or, a title change as well, which I think if you put it on your CV or if you put it on LinkedIn, looks like it's a promotion or it looks like it's it's something more than it's it's what you're actually doing, but you're not necessarily it's not necessarily being reflected in the pay. Now as I mentioned, I had that myself, and it is it was for me personally demotivating. So it's something you need to think about. Is this really what I want? Do I want the title more than I want the money? You can also look into getting a personal development fund. So most organisations will have money put aside for employees every year to invest in training, in education that is outside of the workplace.

Aoife O'Brien [00:15:38]:

So this is something you could maybe negotiate a little bit more money into that fund as well. So I would love to know what is one thing that you're going to do differently at your next salary negotiation. Do let me know, and I'd love to hear how you get on as well. As always, if you enjoy the podcast, if you find it practical, don't forget to leave me a rating or a review on your favorite podcast platform. And don't forget to share this with a friend. If you think that someone could benefit from listening to this today, absolutely go ahead and share that with them. Recording stopped.