I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer

of specialty metal roofing and other building materials.

Welcome to another episode of Construction Disruption.

So I'm going to tell you a quick story to start out with.

Um, little Johnny was in Sunday school class and his teacher in Sunday school was

telling them about the story of creation and of course included in that was telling

about the story of how, uh, Eve was, uh, created from, from one of Adam's ribs.

And Johnny just said, to it real intently.

Um, so later in the week, Johnny's at home and, um, his mom finds him.

He's laying on his bed and he's kind of moaning and he's grabbing his side.

And, um, she asked Johnny, what's, what's wrong?

Or don't you feel well?

And he says, Oh mom, I think I'm having a wife.

Okay, well, let's go ahead and get started with our show.

So today I'm excited.

We do have a repeat guest today.

Um, it's hard to believe, but we're coming up on nearly four years since the

first time that this gentleman joined us here on Construction Disruption.

Uh, Derek Hodgin is our guest today.

Derek is a professional engineer based in South Carolina, and he

currently is the owner and founder of Positive Friction Consulting.

Over his career, Derek has worked a lot with forensic engineering, failure

analysis, facility condition inspections.

He's frequently served and worked as an expert witness on various types of

construction failures, and he's been a frequent presenter to the AEC industry.

And since the last time we spoke, Derek's had a lot of changes in his life.

He's gone on to new stages, and one of those includes his, um, Recent

publication of his book, more than 100 ways to build better a contractor's

field guide to better practices.

Um, Derek, it was a blast having you on the show several years ago.

I'm looking forward to today's conversation as well.

Um, just to remind our audience, we are doing our challenge words.

So each one of us has been challenged to work some sort of unique.

Word or phrase into the conversation.

And at the end of the show, we'll tell you our audience, whether we were

successful working in those words or not.

So Derek, um, welcome back to construction disruption.

Thanks, I appreciate you having me back.

Well, it's good.

You were a great guest and you and I have known each other a lot of years

and I always enjoy talking to you and it's always very informative, but,

um, I think it's interesting your life has taken on some changes since.

Uh, the last time you were on the show, um, you tell me you're retired,

but then you also tell me all the projects you're still involved with.

And it doesn't sound very retired to me, but, um, tell

us about some of those changes.

Well, I guess, um, the term retirement, I mean, from

a forensic engineering standpoint, uh, just means I stopped accepting

new cases, um, in October of 2023, which was actually the 20 year.

Anniversary of our company, uh, construction science and engineering.

So I got to retire from the company that I created, and I have a finite list of

projects that I'm still consulting on.

Um, when you're retained as an expert witness, you're retained as

an individual, not as a company.

So I still have numerous cases that I'm named as the expert where I'll serve those

clients until these cases are resolved.

But when I, when I stopped taking cases, I had over 100 on the books,

and now I have, I think, less than 30.

So it's, uh, I'm working toward the, uh, having nothing on my

plate, but it's a slow process.

I have to imagine some of those cases can go on

for years, especially if it's a bigger project or something.

Is that true?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Some of the, uh, cases I'm involved with are very large cases that

will take at least another year.

So I imagine,

So in your spare time, you've written this book, which

I just think is extremely cool.

Um, I just got a copy of it yesterday and I've started going through it.

There is so much valuable content in here, um, especially for someone

in the construction industry.

Um, as you describe it, the purpose of the book is to equip contractors with more or

less a quick reference guide to the do's and don'ts of construction that you have

learned over your 30 or so year career.

Um, you have topics in there like bidding projects, site work and drainage,

foundations, walls, roofs, windows, cladding, decks, all kinds of things.

Um, I think you've really created something special here that brings

together years of field experience.

Uh, and to me, it's valuable both to new members, just invaluable

to new members to our industry.

Um, but there's a lot of good stuff in here for.

Grizzled veterans as well.

So tell us a little bit about what your goal was with the book.

well, I remember when I first had the idea about the book, and I

was standing at a project in Charleston, South Carolina, and I felt like I

just was looking at the same things that I continue to keep looking at.

Over and over and so it just occurred to me that somebody needs to teach

contractors about some basic stuff that they need to get right and

partly to stay out of litigation.

I mean, not just to build a more durable building, but just to stay out

of trouble because there are experts out there that work for owners or

plaintiffs that will find these issues.

Repeated and if they're not careful, you know, end up as a defendant in a lawsuit.

So I felt like that was my 1st kind of thought about the book.

If I could just teach them some of these things that we see so many times

that get people into into litigation, I can help with that process.

But then.

It occurs to me that, as you described, you know, from the foundation up to the

roof and everything in between, there's, there's certain details that we have

trouble sometimes getting, getting right.

And, um, whether it causes litigation or not, it could cause a

durability issue or a safety issue.

And so I, I was naive thinking that, oh, I'm gonna just put this book together and,

you know, it shouldn't be more than a.

You know, a few months or a year process, and I'll get it published and it'll

be, you know, a reasonably priced, you know, inexpensive book that I can get

out there and pass this information on.

And then 8 years later, I crossed the finish line with the, uh, with the book.

And it ended up being much more substantial and just, um, as you described

it, it's a, it's a durable field guide.

Here's a, here's a, here's the finished version of it, but it's made with,

um, 15 mil rigid vinyl, uh, cover and back and then 8 mil vinyl pages.

So you can drop it in the mud puddle.

And you can kick it, and it's, it's, uh, it's very durable to be

used by contractors in the field.

Well, it's a great looking book No doubt about it.

Um, you know as you were talking there a second ago You thought made

me think of something that um, I just came up ran across this morning.

So My father built our family's home back in the early 70s

Build up pretty much himself.

He was working full time and building a home and in the, in the evenings.

And, um, he was always, of course, this was before the days of YouTube,

but, uh, dad being an engineer always managed to figure these things out.

But it was interesting this morning.

I saw in the news that there was actually a fire in that house.

Um, my parents haven't lived in it in about.

20, 25 years.

Um, and there was a fire in that house that actually originated.

So one of the things he did in that house that was a little bit

unique was, um, we had electric, uh, heat in the ceilings with radiant,

uh, heated cable in the ceilings.

And it was actually.

Great heat for the home.

I mean, of course, it was electric, maybe a little more expensive, but they're

saying that this fire originated in the attic and apparently had something

to do with that electric heat cable.

Of course, here it is 50 years later, but that kind of hit home with me

thinking, okay, that's that's work.

My father put in there now.

I have no idea what may have happened since then.

Um, you know, obviously there's insulation, there may be critters

in that attic for all I know.

Um, but, uh, still kind of, kind of hit home with me.

These things that we do have ongoing impact, that's for sure.

Well, it's pretty impressive, though, to have a

50 year effective service life.

I mean, to put it in perspective, as a, as a expert witness, most of my cases are

involving homes or buildings that are 8 years old or less because of the statute

of repose in the state of South Carolina.

And so.

I mean, it's just as sad that, um, we don't build things well enough to get

past the 8 year mark before showing signs of distress or non performance.

Yeah, it really is.

That is interesting.

No, and that thought me too.

I was thinking, gee, whiz, I can't believe it's been 50

years since we built that house.

And I say we, I probably was more of an annoyance than a help most of the time.

But, um, yeah, I mean, that is an awfully good service life as well.

I agree.

Um, so.

The book you've written, like you kind of described and you showed

us there, it's, it really has been designed as a, in the use field, uh,

guide and you've got specific topics.

And I think you do a great job of kind of the end of every section.

You just stow it down to information as far as things to do, things to not do,

and things that maybe you could do, but.

You need to be cautious about it.

Um, kind of tell us a little bit how you see the book being used.

I mean, do you, did you write it more for folks who were newer, um, to the

a EC industry or really for anybody?

I'm hoping it would be useful for everybody.

I mean, even seasoned contractors that have purchased the book and

read it have commented very favorably about, um, you know, some of the

things that are just great reminders.

You know, to them about certain details and things that they are

excited to share with their crews.

And so, um, the intent was to have it in the field.

I'm trying to work right now.

With a tool belt manufacturer to have a pouch.

Made for the book so that you can clip the book on your tool belt and

have it in the field with you and be able to have a quick reference.

Um, but 1 thing that struck me as I was writing the book was

that I don't know as much about.

Contracts, as I know about roofs and early on in my development of the

book, I had this illusion that all the chapters needed to be kind of balanced

and well developed with, you know, the top 10 or something in each chapter.

And then I got over that and realize that.

You know, I, I can give, you know, 6 good things about contracts, you

know, that would be beneficial for contractors, but I could give 20, you

know, or more good ideas about route.

So it doesn't matter, you know, to have this, you know, balance.

I got over that hump and retitled the book just more than 100 ways.

And I ended up having to whittle down at the time from about 140 down

to the current 109 better practices that are in the, in the book.

But I'm hoping it'll be Used in the field by contractors, um, and

just, it would apply to everybody.

It doesn't matter how, uh, if you're a beginner contractor or a

seasoned contractor, I think there's something in there for everybody.

Sure.

No, I agree.

And, and I, you know, as you're talking, I could see this, uh, something

else for your spare time these days.

I could see this turning into a podcast, actually, uh, where

you started to talk about it.

You know, guys could listen to it in their truck as well and,

uh, get some education that way.

So I know you've always been really passionate about working

with younger folks and, and education and bring them up.

And so one of your visions of this is also, uh, as this book being used as an

educational textbook, is that correct?

Tell us a little bit about that.

Well, pretty quickly, um, after.

Releasing the book from the contractor version, because it's so robust in

its construction, it costs 149, which is, um, you know, a lot more than

I originally thought it would cost.

I had this idea to be like a 30 or 40 dollar book, but after going through

all the materials selection and the, uh, and the actual construction of

the book, um, that's what it ended up.

Costing so obviously some of my, my friends reminded me of how

many books are on my shelf that I love the cost the same or more.

You know, I have an extensive library that's filled with books.

I'm a book junkie myself.

So, um, but I did get a pretty quick response to could we

get the same information?

In a normal book that doesn't cost as much and so right now the publisher

is putting together the textbook version, which is a larger format.

So it would be a little bit easier to read as compact as this field

guide, but it's not going to be something you can drop in a mud puddle.

Uh, you're going to have to keep it on your desk inside, but it will

be 65 dollars instead of the 149.

and I think consultants, manufacturers, Attorneys architects, you know,

that and students, I hope would be able to have the access to the same

information for a much lower cost.

So I feel like universities that have architecture engineering or

construction science programs, maybe.

A great place to, um, to pitch the book and see about getting

in some of those programs.

I think earlier we can get, um, those that are going to enter the construction

field, you know, soon, this type of information that's not taught

anywhere else would be a huge benefit.

Well, one of the ways I can see it also being used is by

manufacturers such as ourselves using it as a gift, uh, to people in the field.

I mean, maybe a Christmas gift or, you know, whatever, just something that,

uh, you can give folks that's going to be extremely valuable to them.

Uh, so I'm, I'm kind of excited about that prospect as well.

I've had the same response from a large law

firms that do defense work for

Oh, wow.

They say, hey, we should probably be giving these to our clients,

you know, so that we can have less.

But of course, I don't want to have them, you know, do everything perfectly.

And then they would not have business.

I can see both sides of that, sure, but it could be a little proactive

for some folks, no doubt about it.

Um, so you were telling me a little bit, and I realize, you know, you've

designed it really robust and the waterproof pages and everything.

Uh, you were telling me earlier about, uh, dropkicking it and some of the versions,

things you were trying to make sure you got this as robust as it could be.

And I'm guessing that is something most authors don't do.

Um Tell us a little bit about, you know, what that process was.

well, I guess, I mean, from the outset, because the book

is so much about building better.

I felt it was really, really important that the book follow the same advice.

You know, I can't have a book that talks about durability and have something

that's going to fall apart in the field.

And if it's going to be in the field on a contractor site, it better be.

You know, I won't say indestructible, but it better be tough.

And so I had these iterations where they would give me the book and my thought

early, and I try, I'll try not to get in the weeds too much, but they, I thought

early on coded, uh, metal, like a wire binding would be the most robust, uh,

binding, but if I kicked it enough and dropped it enough, I could get the pages

to become disengaged from the binding.

And so the metal will deform and not hold its shape.

What I like about it is that with the plastic binding, you can open

the pages and fold it completely in half or all the way around to

get on the pages that you want.

Um, and it doesn't, it doesn't deform like the metal.

Now, unfortunately, plastic has a problem when UV with what we

call plasticizer migration and.

Over time, if it's exposed to the sun.

It could lose plasticizer and become brittle.

And so I think that's a benefit of the pouch that would be made

by the tool belt manufacturer.

If a contractor throws this book on his dash, and it gets baked in the sun.

And then he drops it on the concrete.

You could have a crack or a failure of the, of the binding.

So I got to have a, I guess, a manufacturer warning

about the UV protection.

So, um, anyway, um, that's the, that's the idea with it being tough.

We did a lot of research on different materials.

We got the best plastic.

That we could have, you know, for an exterior environment, but, you know,

it's like everything else it'll have a certain effective service life.

Hopefully the longest possible if it's taken care of.

Well, it certainly sounds like you've thought of

everything and, and I love it.

To me, it's, it's, you know, easy to read.

The print is large and, um, I don't have to put eyedrops in,

in order to read it or something.

I mean, I think you've done a.

Done a really nice job with it.

And it, and it just has a cool look and feel to it as far as something that a

contractor would feel comfortable using.

Um, you know, I think there's a little bit of something that contractors sometimes

want to be the ones with the answers, not the ones looking for the answers.

Um, but having this as an actual field guide for them, I think is fantastic.

Um.

Anything, I mean, beyond the book, um, any of our listeners out there who maybe

are younger or newer to this industry, um, any words of advice for them generally

along their career paths and so forth?

this is still about the book, but, um, the 1 thing I

tried to include, I'll tell you that.

Part that was difficult for me, Todd was writing the book, but not teaching about,

uh, the, all these issues because I was trying to write to the contractors and

tell them what to do and what not to do.

And as you discussed earlier, there's kind of a, a symbol system of a red.

X, like don't do this, a green check mark that this is a good idea or a

yellow caution hand, like you can do this, but proceed with caution.

So it's a very simply, um, laid out message for contractors, but at the very

end of the each chapter, I have 2 things.

1 is I have a list of all the things I just told you.

About whatever the subject is, if it's foundations or exterior walls

or roofs, here's all the good ideas because I don't have any illusion that

every project is going to be able to incorporate all these best practices.

But I felt like if I gave a checklist.

At least contractors could look as a quick reference to see what are the things

that we can incorporate easily into this project to make our project better, you

know, and so some things might be a slam dunk and some things might, you know, be a

little bit more difficult or cost money to incorporate, but at least they've got the

list and they can decide for themselves.

Here's how we can make our project better.

But the 2nd part, which is more answering your question, is because I didn't get

the opportunity in the book to teach about why all these things are important

I have a suggested reading list.

And so every chapter has books from my library shelf Or articles that I've

written or articles that I've read from other people that I think are

relevant to each of these subjects.

So, from a younger person standpoint, when you read this book, it's going to be

loaded with all kinds of references to.

If you want to learn more about this subject, which to me is just the most

important part about our industry is.

Is learning and knowing about what you're actually doing in the field,

this is a, this is a resource that you can look to to learn more.

And so I think that's going to be a really great asset for younger professionals.

Well, I agree with you, and I think the way you've designed it, it,

it kind of sets up that curiosity, um, for folks who may want to learn more.

And, you know, one of the things I, I, find sometimes and I don't know, I guess

I could blame this on younger generation, but maybe it's a phase we all go through.

But I find that people aren't real curious a lot of times anymore.

They, they kind of just want to be told what to do and they don't want to

necessarily go beyond that and learn more.

And, uh, I think your book really cultivates that desire to learn more.

Um, and to be curious a little bit about.

Things.

So I was just looking at the section you've got on value engineering,

the, the dreaded value engineering.

Um, but your caution on that is, and I think this is really interesting

to a contractor, you know, be aware of value engineering that may

jeopardize your, um, ability to do the job well, um, or your own, or

that may affect your work in some way.

And I think that's great spot on advice.

Um, well.

Tell us a little bit.

How can folks go about buying a copy of the book right now?

Well, the easiest way is probably through our website,

which is just a positive friction, LLC dot com, and I can certainly

provide you a, uh, a link or a.

QR code or whatever we need for that purpose.

But, um, that's the easiest way.

My daughter Marley is the one who manages that site.

And when people order a book, she's the one who ships the book from our,

our distribution center, which is her garage and Somerville, South

Carolina, where we got the books.

And, uh, I'm at, uh, the world headquarters of positive fiction

in Westminster, South Carolina.

So.

Um, they, I have some walk in customers occasionally, you know, that will buy

a book, um, locally, but most of the sales have been through our, our website.

It is on Amazon, but, um, probably less pre, preferable going

through, going through them.

So they, they take their cut and, um, and believe it or not, even at

the price, you don't get a big cut.

I did the, uh, the depressing.

Business math recently, where one hour of my time as an expert witness,

um, equals about selling 13 books.

Wow.

Wow.

It's certainly not about the money.

It's all about trying to spread the word about building better.

Well, and I think that's awesome when you have the kind of

experience you do, which, you know, your experience, especially with forensic

and, uh, failure analysis is really set you apart and unique in the industry.

So, um, no one better than you to go out and collect this information and, or.

Put forth this information.

So I'm curious though, you know, you're still out there.

You said you're still working on some projects.

Um, anything you have learned recently on a project that maybe was

something you hadn't known for years?

I'm just, are you still learning?

I guess is what I'm curious about.

Uh,

things about my, um, career.

Has this been that continuous.

Um, ability to, to learn and someone else, you know, paying you to dig deeper into

these subjects and, uh, and, and learn things that, you know, you might not

otherwise as a traditional engineer, you know, kind of like contractors, you're

subjected to a budget and a schedule.

I'm not saying that I'm not subjected to budgets and schedules, but from a

forensic standpoint, you get a lot more flexibility to dive into subjects deeper.

Learn about the code, how different changes came about, look at standards

and testing protocols and how products were developed and, you know, where

the, you know, missing link was, or, you know, trying to solve a puzzle.

And it's just been a blast.

And, um, I guess from a recent learning experience, um, I wish I could think

of one about roofs for you, Todd, but, um, the one that I, I came across

recently was understanding that.

Yeah.

We still are messing up, um, window installations.

You know, we, we had a problem with nailing flange windows and the

manufacturers would talk about sealing.

All four sides behind the mailing plans window, which is not a good idea.

Um, the sill needs to drain water when the window leaks.

And one of the things the book will tell you is all windows leak.

So you just plan for that.

But what I didn't realize was that we're also still, uh, so we've, we've

figured it out at the sill to, okay.

We stopped saying just seal the, uh, put the seal on at the sill.

We had problems with self adhered flashing manufacturers saying to put

the tape over the sill nailing flange.

That serves the same purpose, to dam the water and cause the problem,

so we don't want to do that.

We figured that out, but now we're doing the same problem at the head of windows.

You know, we're putting self adhered flashing tape across the head of a window.

And so if you're at a single family, residential home with a roof overhang,

you're probably okay with that detail.

If you are on a mid rise wood frame building with no roof overhang,

and you proceed to put self adhered flashing tape, sometimes

required by the architect's specs.

Or by a manufacturer's instructions, you are assuming that no water is

going to penetrate the wall above that window and get behind your W.

R.

B.

and that's just not a good assumption.

And so I've got this case.

Um, that I recently was looking at the rot at the head of the window, and

they think they're doing a great job because they're just totally sealing the

window up with the self flashing tape.

But what they're doing is they're damming.

All the water that penetrates the wall in the wall above that point

at the head of that window water is penetrating inside the unit and

it's rotting the wall ceiling above.

But we, we think we're following instructions, but we're just

not thinking from a building.

Standpoint, you know, how it's going to perform, you know, long term.

So that's definitely something we need to do better with.

Yeah.

Well, it kind of reminds me a little bit what you were saying there.

Um, so a lot of times, you know, when I'm looking at a pitched roof failure,

um, I will find people in there trying to troubleshoot and they're just looking

at the area of where the problem is.

And I'm always like, okay, you have to start at the top of the roof

above this and work your way down in order to find out, you know,

what really has happened here.

So.

Very interesting.

So, I know that another labor of love for you that you've embarked on here

recently, um, is remodeling a house down on Roatan, Roatan, where you like to dive.

Um, tell us a little bit about that and what sort of work you're

getting yourself into there.

Well, when I talked to you last, uh, I had a contract on a house

that we were, um, anticipating buying.

Uh, the good news, I guess, is I have a really good engineer

slash home inspector in New York that, um, looked at it and found.

More projects than I was ready

Oh,

embark on, I was all ready to do the roof, do some railings, do some

interior remodeling, and it was going to be fun, but I'll just say the extent

of the issues were much greater than we were looking to spend our time on.

We have, we, we closed on a house earlier this week.

That is like the opposite.

It's small and new.

Oh, wow.

It does have a metal roof, but it, uh, it does not need

any, uh, uh, a new metal roof and it's the metal roof there is fine.

Um, so my projects are more, um, fun projects like,

Cosmetic.

you know, doing some porch, you know, enclosure,

some stairs, expanding my deck a little bit and planning some.

Fruit trees, you can grow anything down there.

You can live all kinds of different fruits and nuts.

And, uh, so it'll, there'll be some projects, but they

won't be nearly as extensive.

We'll get to mix in some, some fun time as well.

Well, I think I'm happy for you on that.

That sounds a whole lot more relaxing.

Something you can do at your own pace rather than gotta get this done.

That's good.

yeah.

Well, thank you so much, Derek.

This has been a great discussion.

We're close to wrapping up what we kind of call the business end of things.

Is there anything we haven't covered yet that you wanted to be

sure to share with our audience?

I am also working on the Spanish version of this book, and so I

tried at first to find, you know, four or five Spanish speaking, uh, colleagues

in the construction business to review.

So you can hit a button on Microsoft Word and it'll do a complete translation.

And, you know, not knowing Spanish well, it looked very comprehensive

and it's like, wow, this is really.

Seems like it's close and the initial feedback that I got from from

Spanish speaking colleagues was it is pretty close, but it's not exactly.

No, there's some issues.

I've got to have tweaked to make sure it's okay.

Um, things were not getting done with my, my friends doing the review.

So I've now engaged a service that will help me get across the finish line.

So I think it'd be awesome to have both versions in the field.

So there's the English speaking, you know, supervisor, and they're

going to install a metal roof, or they're going to install a window.

And they say, let's look at this page together.

And they're both going to have the same information that they can share.

Because my experience, and I'm not saying this is everybody's experience,

but my experience is most even high end contractors, there'll be a, an

English speaking person that is the, the representative for the team.

That communicates with the English speaking, you know, owner or, uh,

superintendent, you know, the person running the show, uh, for the contractor,

but clearly, based on my experiences, there's some things that are lost in the

translation, either that they don't know any better, or they're just not provided

sufficient information to do the work.

Well, and so I think this is really going to be a helpful tool to bridge that.

Gap where they can both have the same information and it could be.

You know, shared at the same time.

Instead of that, that game you used to play with, you'd

tell somebody something and

Yeah, telephone game.

got to be something lost in the translation between

that initial conversation and the person swinging the hammer.

You know, so I think this book to having both versions will be very, very helpful.

Well, great, Derek.

This has been great talking to you.

Before we close out, though, I have to ask if you're willing

to participate in something we call our rapid fire questions.

So these are 7 questions.

Some are serious.

Some are silly.

All you have to do is give us a quick response.

Are you up to the challenge of rapid fire?

Sure, I'll give it a try.

Very good.

Well, question number one.

I love this because it kind of fits in with the theme of construction disruption.

What is a product or service you have purchased recently that was

sort of a game changer for you?

Sort of like a, where has this been all my life moment?

It would have to be some technology, um,

product, but I'm trying to think.

I mean, I don't know if there's a recent one.

I mean, GPS, I'm just continue to be amazed about, um, GPS.

That's been a game changer, but that's not recent.

So, uh,

that's a good answer though.

It certainly is.

You're right.

And it's funny, uh, when the little Garmin units first came out and my

sales team, one of them, I was like, I'm not spending money on that.

You could carry maps and I had all these maps, but

I had boxes of maps when I did the insurance job, and I had to

pull off the side of the road and call somebody if I needed to talk to him.

So, between the cell phone and the GPS and my cell phone, I mean, you can

get anywhere you want to go anymore.

So that's that's something in the game changer, but.

You know, not so recent,

that's cool though.

Um, okay, so what did the eight year old Derek want to be when he grew up?

um, probably a truck driver or a motocross racer.

Yeah,

spirit of adventure with your diving and everything.

That's cool.

So, question number three, what is your favorite meal?

oh, man, I've got a bunch of them.

But, um, right now it is a whole fish with some crusty, spicy, um, uh,

coating on it with rice and beans and plantains, uh, sitting by the beach.

That sounds awesome.

That

for, um, 360 Lempuras, which is like 12.

Oh my goodness.

Good deal.

Hey, I'll have to join you there sometime.

So, would you rather have a water balloon fight or a food fight?

if I didn't have to clean it up, it'd be a food fight.

Really?

That's interesting.

That sounds like more fun to you.

Okay, see, I just think of the cleanup, so I got to go with water balloon,

Well, that's why I clarified the answer.

If I had to clean it up, it would be water balloons.

Okay, next question.

Do you prefer pizza that is cut into pie shapes or into squares?

I'm probably a pie shaped guy.

All right, I see.

I love squares.

I'm kind of weird that way.

They all taste the same.

Next to last question.

Who is someone from history that you'd like to have dinner with and

what is a question you'd ask them?

Oh, wow.

So there's a few.

I mean, uh, Craig Foster is the guy that, um, did this ocean change project that

did the Netflix movie, my octopus teacher.

I just love to ask him about his experience, you know, with that film.

That's a great, great movie.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'll stop there.

There's, there's, there's several heroes I have.

Very good.

Well, the last question, um, this one's a little more philosophical.

What would you like to be remembered for at the end of your days, Derek?

I think, um, trying to make things better, you know,

trying to improve things and, um, share what I've learned, but I think

this, you know, is a good step.

What we've talked about today.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Well, thank you again for your time today, Derek.

Um, for anyone who wants to get in touch with you, can you remind them again how

to get the book and your website or any ways to connect with you personally?

Well, the website again is a positive friction.

My cell phone number, if somebody wants to reach out or text me is

864 650 5037, I think the, uh, email address, which I might get wrong,

is on the, uh, is on the website.

So they can, if they want to leave me a message on the website.

You know, I'll be sure and get back in touch with them.

Cool.

And I know you're active on or you're on LinkedIn as well

and easy to find there also.

So, Derek Hodgin.

Very good.

Yes, sir.

So, did you get in your challenge word?

I did not.

Did not.

You had the word biscuit.

Ah.

What am I supposed to do?

Your favorite meal could have been biscuits and gravy,

but instead you had to go to the fish at Rotan and everything.

set me up and I didn't even pay attention.

My word was eyedrops,

Right.

That was pretty good.

Yep.

That I got to read the pages

There you go.

Well, it's been a great time together and I encourage everybody

very much to check out this book.

I think it's going to be absolutely invaluable to folks in AEC.

So thank you very much.

And thank you for being on the show again, Derek.

You bet, glad to be here.

Thank you to our audience for tuning into this episode of

construction disruption with Derek Hodgin, consulting engineer and author

of More than 100 Ways to Build Better.

Please watch for future episodes of our podcast.

We always have great guests.

Don't forget to leave a review, please.

And.

So the next time we're together, keep on challenging, looking

for better ways of doing things.

Also, we, uh, ask you to encourage others, make them smile.

Um, simple things we can do to change the world for others.

So God bless and take care.

This is Isaiah Industry signing off until the next episode

of Construction Disruption.