If the goal is to get from point A to point B and you're running in circles or zigzagging on the way to point B, then you probably need to come back and revisit expectations.

On today's episode, we're talking about people in organizations that everyone loves to hate.

We're talking about mid level management.

Oh, buddy.

If you listen to our last episode, we did talk about how brokers, the Broker 101 episode, we talked about how brokers are the intermediary and they're the person in between of, you know, the shipper and the carrier.

Mid level managers, they have to act as intermediary as well.

They're building that bridge between current employees, current sales reps, operations, people, as well as their superiors or the people that supervise them.

Justin, what do you think is, you know, some of the challenges or some of the things that mid level managers go through?

It's funny you talk about there are the people at organizations that everyone loves to hate.

I didn't realize I was so hated in my previous role.

But it does ring a bell because it's like you are catching the brunt end of any issue.

Yeah.

Up and down, all the drama bubbles up to you from your employees and any issue below you with your team is the hammer's coming down on you.

Yeah.

So it's almost a lose lose.

Even if you're doing well, you're still dealing with a lot of issues.

On the surface level, you are that bridge or that filter between your sales team or your employees and upper level management.

Do you think there's ever a disconnect between, you know, as a mid level manager.

Right.

Like we've both been there before.

We've, we've played that role for longer than probably expected.

Is there ever a disconnect between like what upper management is preaching to, what actually gets done on the salesforce?

What are some of the responsibilities and how do you balance those?

Yeah, it's tough.

And when you're acting as the bridge or the filter between your sales team, your employees to upper level management and your direct supervisors, it can be very difficult to switch or pivot your lines of communication and what messages you're pushing.

Because what upper level management wants to hear is not necessarily what your sales team wants to hear.

So you have to be flexible and creative on how to, how to push and get that message across on what the overall mission is.

So I think a lot of the challenges are you are dealing with on an employee level.

You're dealing with so many things that you don't find valuable and you find them to be a waste of time and they're petty and it doesn't move the needle for you on what, what you're passionate about.

Sure.

Whereas some of the upper level management conversations like they're exciting and they're strategic, they paint a picture of what's next step for you.

Yeah.

But when you're juggling so many things and you're wearing multiple hats as a mid level manager, it can be often difficult to get the most out of your employees while also checking all the boxes for upper level management.

Yeah.

I love that you use the word filter, man.

I, to me that is such a great word and I feel like that that's exactly what you have to do.

Right.

Like figuring out what's important and how do I push those and you know, everybody talks about metrics and KPIs to upper management and I think you have to do both.

Right.

With the, you know, reporting back to your sales team.

How important are the expectations and the clarity of the roles?

Yeah, it has to be crystal clear.

You know, what roles does your organization have, what roles does your team have?

What are the expectations for each role?

You know, what is the end goal, whether it's quarterly, annual, whatever it may be, what's your goal as a team and then how do you squeeze the absolute potential out of each individual?

So if there isn't role clarity, there's going to be a lot of confusion on what individuals are supposed to be doing.

And if it's not moving the team forward towards that goal, it doesn't make sense.

So you have to start with expectations, responsibilities and end with goals and then reverse engineer from there.

For all of those listening today, for the mid level managers that are out there, like how often do those expectations need to be reiterated, iterated?

Is that like a daily thing, a monthly thing?

How often, man?

Yeah, I think you got, you had to be ingrained at that mid level.

You have to understand your team and know what makes them tick.

But you also have to have a few future leaders or lower level leaders on your team to keep a pause on what's really going on because you're not always going to be neck deep in the day to day.

If the goal is to get from point A to point B and you're running in circles or zigzagging on the way to point B, then you probably need to come back and revisit expectations because the best path is full throttle forward, as efficient as possible.

So you know, if anything is outline where let's say you're pushing calls, an.

Activity on the phone, like outbound calls, like to client.

Correct.

And the goal is, let's say 80 calls per day per individual, per sales rep.

If the average number of calls as a team is around 40 or 50.

Yeah.

I would say you need to go back to the drawing board and hammer back or hammer down on the expectations because clearly you guys are not meeting your goals.

Yeah, I feel like we need to have an expectation meeting for Veritas upstairs.

Is that, Is that.

Are you talking about the skeleton crew the flu has wiped out?

Yeah.

I mean, sickness aside, I do think that, you know, it does.

We've probably waited a little too long between our last expectation meeting.

Right.

So, yeah, I don't know.

I don't know what the perfect timing is.

Is that a monthly revisit of like, hey, here's what we're expecting of you.

Here's the level of work.

I mean, just like you mentioned with the 80 outbound calls.

Right.

I would put it this way.

If there are clear expectations for your team and there are crystal clear goals on what needs to be hit and you're being transparent with your team on where they stand on the journey towards their goals, if you're consistently falling short of your goals, whether it's individual or as a team and you're not addressing those, then that's on you.

Yeah.

Because when you're addressing those types of things and your expectations and goals are clear and they're still just not putting in the effort to get to those goals, that comes back to you.

And you have to have someone answer to that because upper level management is going to be calling.

Yeah, they're going to be calling.

So again, you're going to be hated either way.

But pick your poison there, Brian.

From someone that's been in that mid level manager role for eight, nine years, what do you think separates grade you apart from.

From everyone else in that same role?

Yeah, I think it's.

It can be challenging.

Right.

We're all competitive.

Especially if you're a previous salesperson and you get into that manager role, you want to lead people competing against other, you know, offices or other teams or other people that are in similar roles as you.

Right.

Like gauging your team versus others.

I think that's a metric that you can use especially for those out there that are listening that are in that role.

How do I stack up?

Right.

And how are my people responding to what I'm pre reaching?

I think those.

I also think there is a level of it where you do have to manage up.

It's something I was never good at.

Not that I didn't like it, but I felt like I didn't want to, you know, manage up or set a meeting with the supervisor just to set a meeting.

Right.

I wanted to bring value or I wanted to bring those ideas up to, hey, this is what the sales team is talking about.

I think it would be really good if we did X.

Right.

And I think that, you know, for those out there, I think it's bring those ideas to upper management where it's not, you're just not reporting KPIs and metrics and how your team's doing.

So would you recommend going to your executive or director and saying like my team said they want more happy hours and team albums.

Is that what you mean by managing up?

No.

Well, I think we have to go back to that filter.

Right?

So like you have to filter out what?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So if the happy hours are free, I'm sure the executive wouldn't care.

Right?

You have to have that filter.

What can put yourself in that next role or what is gonna help you get to that executive role or, you know, position yourself for a promotion?

Right.

So yeah, I think it's tricky, man.

It's, it's challenging to navigate and I don't think there's any like one way to do it.

But I do think that if you can, you know, serve both sides or if you can serve the people that report to you as well as put your best foot forward in the, you know, executive presentations, I think you're better off.

I hear you there.

If you're a mid level manager and you're listening, please reach out, let us know your thoughts or feel free to drop your best practices in the comments or whatever challenges that you're facing.

We'd love to answer those and hear your feedback as you're moving up in a company from the entry level employee to maybe team lead to a team manager or regional supervisor, whatever it may be.

Regardless of how many people you're managing, if you're managing people, you have to have their trust and the only way you're going to do that is if you get to know them on a personal level.