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On this episode of the Dudes and Dads podcast we talk to our friend Jake from Into the Light.

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You're listening to the Dudes and Dads podcast, a show dedicated to helping men be better

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dudes and dads by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling.

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And now, here are your hosts, Joel DeMott and Andy Lehman.

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Andrew.

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Joel, do you know what today is?

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Andy, I think I do, but I want you to tell me so I can just, I can breathe it in.

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I can experience it.

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Season seven.

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Season number seven.

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Episode one.

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Episode one.

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Of the Dudes and Dads podcast.

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Andy, this is a significant milestone.

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It's interesting though.

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People assume that we've been going for seven years and it's actually been six.

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Right, because when you start season seven, that means you've been at it for six years

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because season one is year zero.

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Year one.

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Year zero.

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True.

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That's how a timeline works.

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That's how math on a scale.

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I've never been good with math.

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It's okay.

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Andy.

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Yes, we are.

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Here we are.

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Everybody, season seven of the Dudes and Dads podcast.

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Glad to have each and every one of you along for this ride, these conversations that we

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have.

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This year, Andy, maybe we always look forward to welcoming new people on board into the

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community and this will be another year of we just say, "Come on in.

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The water's fine."

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I'm excited.

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Yeah.

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I'm excited.

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We haven't officially fleshed out the whole season yet.

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We don't normally do the whole season.

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In typical Andy and Joel fashion, given the fact that we're raising 100 children, managing

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numerous both job and volunteer responsibilities, the Dudes and Dads podcast, it's a labor of

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love, but it is a labor of finding the time to do things.

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So planning some stuff, we'll get there.

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It'll happen.

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It'll happen.

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But you know what I'm sure of, Joel?

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This season is going to bring back other guests too, like tonight's guest, actually.

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Tonight's guest is a repeat guest.

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You know, listen, we've talked about this.

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There is a special hall of fame for the repeat guests.

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I'm going to just bring them on right now.

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This is Jake.

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Welcome to the show.

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Hi, Jake.

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Oh my goodness.

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Andy, that segue was clean.

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Yeah, that's so great.

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That was wonderful.

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But no, I mean, we have talked about it.

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My wife has been on three, four times now and last time she was on, she said, "You know,

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NAF Downs has this like trophy that you get to have your neck plaque on when you've been

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on so many times."

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And so we need to do that for real, Joel.

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We will refer to them as repeat offenders.

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That's that'll be...

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And so far, this is Jake's second side.

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This is not three.

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This is...

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I can't...

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We talked about the numbers.

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Yeah.

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Our friend Jake from Into the Light back.

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We were just talking in Andy Diller research because sometimes we forget how long it's

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been.

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But Jake, your episode, you were on with us last March 21st of 2023, which in the show

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notes, we'll link that first episode.

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So if people are interested in going back.

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But man, we feel like these days so much happens in two years.

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So we think it necessary, number one, Jake, for you to do a quick recap on what in the

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world was going on.

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You were on the precipice of things two years ago with Into the Light.

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I think number one, refresh us.

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What's Into the Light all about?

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What were you working on then?

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And then we'll dive into where you guys are now 'cause we've got some new and exciting

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things that are about to drop that we wanna share.

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That's all the teaser I'm going to do because we're here to interview you and hear from

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you.

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So tell us, tell us, give us the background and then we'll get to today and all the good

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stuff happening now.

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Totally, totally.

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Okay.

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So when we chatted last time, our ministry had just released our documentary and basically

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our ministry was just the documentary.

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So and you know how kind of like, you know how like when an album or when a band makes

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an album, they call the album the same thing as the band's name.

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There might be a technical term for that, but like we did the same thing.

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And sometimes now we regret it because we have like Into the Light ministries and like

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it's a ministry we work with different authors and speakers to create video resources on

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biblical sexuality.

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So it's pretty broad.

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There's a lot of stuff in there.

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And then we have Into the Light, the documentary.

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And that documentary is a teaching resource that helps people think about the issue of

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pornography and walk through that from bondage and sexual sin to freedom in Christ.

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So it's a resource that kind of straddles the line between a film and a counseling teaching

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resource and hopefully is watchable and entertaining and convicting.

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A lot of gospel.

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And so we had just released that when we had talked with you last.

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Basically kind of the whole of that last podcast, which I have to say, I had a lot of fun doing

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it was basically, I was just talking about the process of making that film and a little

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bit of some of the, some of just even in that first little bit the reactions we had gotten

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to making it.

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And, and yeah, that was, that was really, really fun.

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So that's, that's what I was doing then.

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Since then our focus has really shifted as a ministry, kind of our next, the next phase

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has been for parents because we made this resource.

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We basically made this resource and parents would come to us and be like, this is really

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helpful for someone who's caught in pornography and needs the hope of the gospel.

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How do I talk to my eight year olds or do I talk to my eight year old?

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And how do I have the talk?

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And what does like, how do I talk about pornography and all of these things?

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And so we felt like the dealing with the issue of pornography with the interlight documentary

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was really straightforward.

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They are burning house fire.

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You guys know this podcast for men.

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It's like, this is an issue.

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The next biggest issue is like, and I'm curious if you guys are willing.

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I want to hear a little bit of your stories with this, most people, even my age are like,

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yeah, my parents didn't talk to me about the, it's like my parents specifically did, but

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most of my peers, their parents didn't talk to them about, about the issues really at

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all.

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And they kind of navigated this world of learning about sexuality, just through whatever they

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found and often whatever they found was pornography.

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And so now kind of that generation starting to have kids for the first time, really being

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aware of like, I need to talk to my children about this.

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And so that's, that's where we are right now.

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We are, as of recording this, I think we might release it later.

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Well, I'll say January 18th, whether this is before or after two major resources that

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we're building will be released.

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The first one is parenting and pornography roadmaps to raising children of integrity.

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It's a nine part masterclass series with some incredible people like Dr. Moeller from Southern

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seminary, Abby Halberstadt, Jonathan Holmes, Justin Wimble, early, all talking about this

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topic.

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How do you talk to your children about God's good design?

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How do you warn them about the dangers of pornography?

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How do you think about technology in the home?

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How do you think about your own fear and terror when it comes to talking about this topic

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or your current struggle with pornography?

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So that's, that's a resource that we're building and like, I'm so incredibly stoked about it.

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We filmed it with a live audience and did, did all of all that stuff is really cool.

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And other series that we're releasing, cause we realized we're like, okay, you can, you

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can go through the good biblical foundations in the theory, but then every single parent

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is like, okay, I've got this in my home.

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I have these phones, these laptops, these tablets, these gaming consoles, these smart

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TVs.

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Now do I think about the devices in my home and make them safe?

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And so we built a tutorial set walking through all those devices, a video for each one, walking

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through them, theologically knowing that technology is a good gift from God, but just radically

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being like, and we're going to lock these things down.

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So that explicit material cannot be accessed.

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And so we really spent a lot of time researching and building that series to help parents really

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within a few hours, be able to kind of take a handle on their home and make it safe either

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the eight year old who doesn't know what they could find or the 13, 14 year old, who knows

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what they're looking for to, to stop them.

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That's a pretty big task to take on.

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I mean, there's so many different devices and so, so how are some, how, how did you

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research that to figure out, okay, what devices should we start with?

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What devices, you know, cause again, each device is going to be a little bit different

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on, on how you set that up.

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Totally.

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Okay.

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It depends how nerdy you want to get as far as that's a production question.

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You go as nerdy as you want to go.

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Okay.

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So basically here's your, here's your your scale.

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On one end, you have abstractions so broad as make sure you cannot access explicit material

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on a device to which we all say, amen.

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And that doesn't help me at all.

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I just know that that's true.

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And then on the other end, you have click this app, scroll to this menu, tap that menu.

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And that's really helpful.

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That's really cool.

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The problem with that is that's so expensive to make for your M song, your Samsung plus

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your Huawei, you are like, it just, it gets, we're talking thousands of videos at that

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and there'll be obsolete within about a month because as soon as Android or, or Apple iOS

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or any of these platforms update there, you know, all we, all it has to do is have one,

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like you, one setting move to another place, your videos invalid.

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So what we basically did was we spent, I don't know how many miles we walked, like maybe

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200 miles worth of pacing the neighborhood, trying to figure out at what resolution to

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get these videos.

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We basically tried to bring them as practical as we could, but yet still making them something

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that will live over for for several years.

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And then we did the research to figure out whether that was true.

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And we, we, I think we got them at about where they need to be.

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So we'll, we talk about one of the videos is just for phones.

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And then we walk through those principles.

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I'll be like, what, okay, what do you need for a phone?

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Okay.

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Well, you need a dedicated accountability software on the phone.

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We partnered with Covered and I's on this project.

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So we rep rep them tremendously because I think they're awesome.

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Another one is accountable to you.

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They're great.

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And so we say, okay, the details of installing Covered and I specifically, we give more resources.

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So in, in sort of our version of show notes, we point people to specific web pages for

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that, but at least we walked them through.

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Okay.

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But more than that, what makes a good accountability system?

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So you should be able to monitor, filter and block and do that at an app level with an

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accountability software or a router level router level.

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What's that question.

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We built a video on that.

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Okay.

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Router level security.

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So we walk through all of that looks like I, and there's at some point where I start

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to glaze over with this, like, yeah, because in a podcast, this gets really tedious.

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But we made these videos really funny, actually, at least I hope so.

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There's aspects of them that are quite silly and hopefully entertaining.

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Cause if we can you and tell you about your wifi router at the same time, then we win.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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So I think there is the, I know this is, you know, this is a fresh conversation in our

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household.

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We've, we've really struggled, I think with the technology on the side of when, when installing

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things or doing things, it like just massively messing up our technology use in general,

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like things, things don't work the way that they used to.

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And you know, it's like this otherwise harmless app or thing that we were, we were doing no

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longer works the way it, the way it did.

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And a lot of it has to do with, yeah, getting kind of digging down the minutia of, you know,

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I was like, gosh, I didn't think I was going to be, have to be like a tech security person.

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And I think that's the, you know, talking with other parents, that's the biggest, that's

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one of the biggest things, like the whole managing of all of this feels like another

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full-time job, you know, and, and you're trying to be responsible with it.

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And yet, you know, it's like, if I, if I have to like personally punch in a security code

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to one of my kids, you know, to one of my kids' devices every single time that they

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want to watch, you know, whatever, what, you know, something, something reasonable and,

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you know, and all of that, that feels difficult.

240
00:13:25,180 --> 00:13:30,700
But on the other, on the other side to say, you know, to say, well, we're just going to

241
00:13:30,700 --> 00:13:35,100
take a hands-off approach or whatever is really, you know, it's like giving them a loaded gun.

242
00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:36,100
Right.

243
00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:42,300
So I think that's the, there's, there's a level of, there's a level of, of frustration.

244
00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:50,260
There's probably been a fair amount of, of yelling in our home of, I'm so tired, I'm

245
00:13:50,260 --> 00:13:54,020
so tired of this, not work, this not working the way I want it to, or, or, you know, and

246
00:13:54,020 --> 00:13:55,020
things like that.

247
00:13:55,020 --> 00:14:00,660
So I think that's the other thing of, you know, I would, I would just cheer on anybody

248
00:14:00,660 --> 00:14:06,140
who's trying to give us access to, cause this topic comes up on the show frequently and,

249
00:14:06,140 --> 00:14:12,340
and in, in Andy's world being, you know, professionally in technology all the time, I know to your

250
00:14:12,340 --> 00:14:17,260
point, it's like, it's an ever changing landscape.

251
00:14:17,260 --> 00:14:26,040
And I'm, I, it, it feels like the forces that be out there are, are evolving and changing

252
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:33,100
quicker than what we're keeping up with most, most of the time.

253
00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:40,420
I'm wondering if you, and doing all this and kind of being in this space, like, and I don't

254
00:14:40,420 --> 00:14:47,180
know the full details on it, but like, like policy, like adult content policies, like

255
00:14:47,180 --> 00:14:51,020
state by state, like there's been like, like legislative things that have come out.

256
00:14:51,020 --> 00:14:55,360
Well, and not to mention the, I mean, you right now are physically in Canada, so that's

257
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,820
even different from the United States.

258
00:14:57,820 --> 00:14:58,820
Yeah.

259
00:14:58,820 --> 00:15:04,620
So, so I wonder, like, if you have a general sense right now of where the battle, where

260
00:15:04,620 --> 00:15:10,500
the battle lines are being drawn in terms of, of just safety, like policy or, you know,

261
00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:14,980
around, cause I'm sure you guys have run into that or the differences in different places.

262
00:15:14,980 --> 00:15:17,140
What, what is the push right now?

263
00:15:17,140 --> 00:15:23,240
What is the hope policy wise, like to, to try to make these things, these things safer?

264
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,380
Cause I want to give people again, an accurate depiction of what's actually going on.

265
00:15:27,380 --> 00:15:32,560
Cause I'm also, I'm also like, cause I think it can be like, wow, Oh, we've, you know,

266
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,180
it's now in the state of Indiana, there's this policy that's, you know, keeping, you

267
00:15:36,180 --> 00:15:37,900
know, to keep children safe.

268
00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:42,000
And I just have a, if you'll forgive me, a slight suspicion that it doesn't roll, it

269
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,880
doesn't roll out exactly like that is cause it's like the moment of policies that put

270
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:46,880
in place.

271
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,540
It's like, well, my, my kids are smart enough to get around that, you know, whatever.

272
00:15:50,540 --> 00:15:56,260
So I just, if there's, if you would just have any kind of input on what those policy conversations

273
00:15:56,260 --> 00:16:01,780
have been like, what, what state, state, federal government agencies are attempting to do or

274
00:16:01,780 --> 00:16:03,560
not attempting to do.

275
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,940
And then like how that might actually affect, you know, what we're doing, what we're doing

276
00:16:07,940 --> 00:16:12,340
right now is as parents, people, people on the ground trying to help her help our kids.

277
00:16:12,340 --> 00:16:13,340
Totally, totally.

278
00:16:13,340 --> 00:16:18,980
I can give a shot at some thoughts though.

279
00:16:18,980 --> 00:16:19,980
Mostly not my wheelhouse.

280
00:16:19,980 --> 00:16:20,980
Yeah.

281
00:16:20,980 --> 00:16:21,980
Yeah.

282
00:16:21,980 --> 00:16:22,980
Sure.

283
00:16:22,980 --> 00:16:25,380
Mostly because I'll kind of explain why.

284
00:16:25,380 --> 00:16:32,340
So my, the first thing would be, we're at a think a point now that gives me a lot of

285
00:16:32,340 --> 00:16:38,700
sympathy for the parents, maybe a half generation ago, even like 10 years ago or so.

286
00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:42,960
Cause I think about 10 years ago, you kind of had this idea like, Oh, you're not giving

287
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,460
your 16 year old a phone.

288
00:16:45,460 --> 00:16:49,460
How dare you?

289
00:16:49,460 --> 00:16:54,420
And now you can be like, yeah, I guess I got a phone till 16 and even the most granola,

290
00:16:54,420 --> 00:16:58,660
like the most liberal parents kind of go, I mean, yeah, fair enough.

291
00:16:58,660 --> 00:16:59,660
Right?

292
00:16:59,660 --> 00:17:01,460
Like maybe not the path we take, but I get it.

293
00:17:01,460 --> 00:17:02,460
It's the internet.

294
00:17:02,460 --> 00:17:03,460
We know.

295
00:17:03,460 --> 00:17:09,140
And so there's, there's kind of a generation that, that we, we felt the burn of just like,

296
00:17:09,140 --> 00:17:14,020
you know, mind slush and, and, and Tik TOK and then, you know, all the things not throw

297
00:17:14,020 --> 00:17:16,300
Tik TOK onto the bus anymore or less than anyone else.

298
00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:20,340
But I think now the parents have an easier time, I think navigating this, the idea that

299
00:17:20,340 --> 00:17:24,400
you would want to protect your kids from stuff online, even if that's just framed as like

300
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,580
predators online, it's just more palatable.

301
00:17:27,580 --> 00:17:31,300
You see that reflected in the legislation, like the fact that it's only recently that

302
00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:36,900
multiple States have, have really been pushing in the war they fight, which is a great tactic

303
00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:39,100
is for like ID, right?

304
00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:44,700
So Pornhub is allowed everywhere, but in certain States, you'll need to have more and more

305
00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:46,540
sophisticated ID measures.

306
00:17:46,540 --> 00:17:51,860
And then, so then Pornhub in particular being the biggest one, basically just says, you

307
00:17:51,860 --> 00:17:57,860
know, with all love, screw you, we're not going to have access to in your state, which

308
00:17:57,860 --> 00:18:02,640
to which I think most porn users go, okay, we'll use something else.

309
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:10,980
And that kind of exists at a resolution where like, as a Christian, I kind of say who cares?

310
00:18:10,980 --> 00:18:21,480
Because for me, there's plenty of legal, explicit material that is easily used in a sinful way.

311
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,800
That is going to stay forever, right?

312
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:30,720
Like if you go on Instagram and, and well, don't scroll too far, you'll find people trying

313
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:36,700
to suck you onto their page posting as much as they can possibly get away with.

314
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:42,000
It's very easy to, to lust it in a Matthew five way after this content, even if it's

315
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,160
not technically pornographic.

316
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:49,720
And so it becomes just as much of a problem that has to be worked through with children,

317
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,720
both in a discipling way and then in a content way as well.

318
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,920
That gets into like, Christians just held to a higher standard, frankly.

319
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,880
And then you got to think about like, okay, what risks does my, my eight year old have

320
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:01,880
on Instagram?

321
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,720
What does that mean?

322
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,240
How can I view what's on Instagram?

323
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,600
Well, there's, there's ways you can do that with, you know, certain monitoring systems.

324
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,320
I don't know if that kind of answered your question, but sort of,

325
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:16,440
Well, I think that gets at it where, you know, I, I guess I just personally have not paid

326
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:22,240
very, very close attention to the policy conversations, mostly because to your, to that point, right,

327
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,400
that I don't, I kind of don't care.

328
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:31,560
Like there's, there's a, you know, I care in as much as let me back up.

329
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:37,080
I care in as much as it's going to help the general population in some places, some, some

330
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:38,840
ways.

331
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,960
But when we're talking specifically within faith community, it's kind of like, well,

332
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:49,120
the standards are even, you know, the standards go beyond even those explicit sites, right?

333
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:53,360
They go, it goes beyond, it goes beyond that to your exact point of, of things that are,

334
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:58,000
there's things that are healthy and good for the mind and the heart and the soul.

335
00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,760
And there are things that are not.

336
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:05,440
And so, and the things that are not, there's plenty of things on that list that will remain,

337
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:11,180
will remain accessible apart from any governmental legislation or any sort of other, other policies

338
00:20:11,180 --> 00:20:12,680
that are, that are put into place.

339
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,880
So yeah, I think that's a, that's a helpful, that's a helpful word.

340
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:17,880
Yeah.

341
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,440
We were talking to a, to a Christian or to who he was a Christian.

342
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:27,000
I think he was the principal of a public high school and they had gone kamikaze.

343
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,320
They had locked down their school really well.

344
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,520
They had done a great job because the school is a different environment.

345
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,120
You can go, you can be there.

346
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:39,060
But the situation you ran into really sadly was that there were students making their

347
00:20:39,060 --> 00:20:42,460
own pornography.

348
00:20:42,460 --> 00:20:45,880
And at that point you go, okay, as Christians, we can diagnose this.

349
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,580
That's a simple art.

350
00:20:47,580 --> 00:20:53,960
And to some degree shocking, but also in line with our theology, like the, you know, the

351
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,240
heart hearts and they will find a way.

352
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:57,240
Yeah, exactly.

353
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,200
And so that becomes disciples that changes from tech questions.

354
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,640
It's still tech questions, but it becomes so much more a discipleship question, which

355
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,560
that's, that's not any easier of a question for sure.

356
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:10,560
Yeah.

357
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:17,340
With, I mean, you guys have obviously, I mean, over these last two years with developing

358
00:21:17,340 --> 00:21:25,460
all the things that you have developed, I mean, that's coming from, that's coming, obviously

359
00:21:25,460 --> 00:21:31,660
that's coming from a place of you're being asked, you're, you're being asked about these

360
00:21:31,660 --> 00:21:37,060
things, that these, these have become kind of pertinent top line questions and a desire

361
00:21:37,060 --> 00:21:40,520
for resources.

362
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:50,680
What's your general sense of, of parents out there today, how they're feeling.

363
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,880
Do they feel like they're gaining ground?

364
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:59,140
Do they feel, do they feel like they, or do they feel like they are at the tail end of

365
00:21:59,140 --> 00:22:00,140
things?

366
00:22:00,140 --> 00:22:05,780
So sort of being reactionary and then hoping for the, hoping for the best and kind of what

367
00:22:05,780 --> 00:22:13,460
it feels like otherwise, just this tsunami of whatever in front of them.

368
00:22:13,460 --> 00:22:14,900
Totally.

369
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:16,980
That's such a good question.

370
00:22:16,980 --> 00:22:22,920
It really it's really, it's interesting because it all depends on the age of the parent.

371
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:31,260
So my, my I'm 27, my age group has a couple of, if they were married early, they got a

372
00:22:31,260 --> 00:22:33,340
couple of five-year-olds kicking around.

373
00:22:33,340 --> 00:22:37,780
And so, but yet me, like I, I was, I was right.

374
00:22:37,780 --> 00:22:40,060
I just scraped into Gen Z.

375
00:22:40,060 --> 00:22:43,820
So like I had, I think the best of both worlds, I'm a digital native, but I also like actually

376
00:22:43,820 --> 00:22:47,580
touched grass when I was a child.

377
00:22:47,580 --> 00:22:50,660
I just, just remember dial up internet.

378
00:22:50,660 --> 00:22:53,460
So like, hallelujah.

379
00:22:53,460 --> 00:22:58,940
And so a lot of them are not overwhelmed by technology personally.

380
00:22:58,940 --> 00:23:03,500
They're like, no, I'm pretty comfortable with this, but only just a couple of generations

381
00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:04,500
up.

382
00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:05,500
And it's like, well, fair enough.

383
00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:09,540
You, they only started encountering some of these things later in life, just because that's

384
00:23:09,540 --> 00:23:10,700
just part of it.

385
00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:16,020
And so I think with a lot of parents that I, that we've talked to, first of all, they're

386
00:23:16,020 --> 00:23:22,340
all, I expected, you know, when we started getting into this, they were like, Hey, you're

387
00:23:22,340 --> 00:23:24,640
going to enter the parenting space.

388
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,800
The amount of judgment and criticism you're going to get is incredible.

389
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,820
We have encountered zero.

390
00:23:32,820 --> 00:23:35,220
Every single person has just been like, great.

391
00:23:35,220 --> 00:23:38,620
I'll take any help I can get, even if I hate most of it.

392
00:23:38,620 --> 00:23:40,900
And so, and it was just been really nice.

393
00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:41,900
Actually.

394
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:42,900
Most people are super excited about it.

395
00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:45,900
And I think people just don't know the landscape, like where to start.

396
00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:51,000
I've even said routers a few times and I bet there are probably a lot of parents fair enough

397
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,200
to go router.

398
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,200
Was that the thing?

399
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,500
That was the thing I bought that one time when we got the wifi.

400
00:23:57,500 --> 00:23:58,500
Right.

401
00:23:58,500 --> 00:23:59,500
Yes.

402
00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:02,140
That is the thing you got that one time when you got the wifi, do you probably also have

403
00:24:02,140 --> 00:24:03,620
a router modem pack?

404
00:24:03,620 --> 00:24:07,680
You don't probably don't know you have a router modem because they used to be two devices.

405
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:08,680
Now they're together.

406
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:09,680
Uh, Andy, you're laughing.

407
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:10,680
Cause you know this.

408
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:11,680
Yup.

409
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:12,680
Right.

410
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,840
And so, and so do I need to explain to you that a router and modem are two different

411
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,260
things, but they're technically probably it gets insufferable.

412
00:24:19,260 --> 00:24:22,660
But what we want to tell parents is we've got you covered on that.

413
00:24:22,660 --> 00:24:27,700
We have like, we have a video that's like 15 minutes long that we, our biggest thing

414
00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:31,380
has been to be like, make this thing watchable and accessible.

415
00:24:31,380 --> 00:24:36,460
We can, I can baseball pitch you all the information and that's so unhelpful because that's never

416
00:24:36,460 --> 00:24:37,460
been the problem.

417
00:24:37,460 --> 00:24:39,020
The information is always out there.

418
00:24:39,020 --> 00:24:43,860
It's just trying to coalesce that enough or bring that together in a framework that makes

419
00:24:43,860 --> 00:24:44,900
sense.

420
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:47,860
That's actually like paying, like you can actually pay attention to it.

421
00:24:47,860 --> 00:24:48,860
Yeah.

422
00:24:48,860 --> 00:24:49,860
Um, that's the big thing.

423
00:24:49,860 --> 00:24:52,940
I guess maybe, I don't know if I'm answering your question, except that most parents are

424
00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:56,700
just like, they're not aware there's a problem.

425
00:24:56,700 --> 00:25:01,060
But most of the time when you don't, when you know there's a problem, but it's just,

426
00:25:01,060 --> 00:25:03,180
you can't figure out what to do about it.

427
00:25:03,180 --> 00:25:05,420
It just goes deal with it later.

428
00:25:05,420 --> 00:25:06,420
Yeah.

429
00:25:06,420 --> 00:25:07,420
Yeah.

430
00:25:07,420 --> 00:25:11,780
Well, I think two part of the reason you've had zero like pushback on that is because

431
00:25:11,780 --> 00:25:16,820
of the fact you said, Hey, pornography is an issue and you've exposed that you've, you've

432
00:25:16,820 --> 00:25:18,980
showed that in the documentary.

433
00:25:18,980 --> 00:25:23,260
And now you're saying, yes, I may not be a parent myself or whatever, or to have lots

434
00:25:23,260 --> 00:25:25,900
of experience here, but I know what's going on.

435
00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:30,260
Like I am in, I am in this age where I've seen this, I've grown up with most of this

436
00:25:30,260 --> 00:25:34,320
stuff, but, and I know, I know what to do.

437
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,980
So I think that's, that's probably part of the reason that you've had some success, you

438
00:25:37,980 --> 00:25:39,660
know, success in that where you're headed or not.

439
00:25:39,660 --> 00:25:40,660
I don't want to say success.

440
00:25:40,660 --> 00:25:42,700
We've had zero pushback on that.

441
00:25:42,700 --> 00:25:43,700
Amen.

442
00:25:43,700 --> 00:25:48,460
And like most things, if you just are somewhat humble going into it, like I love listening

443
00:25:48,460 --> 00:25:51,480
to parents, give me their thoughts on this thing.

444
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,920
Most people are just, it's more, and I actually got a kind of a free pass because I don't

445
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:55,920
have kids.

446
00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:01,420
My, my, the other half of the ministry, John Michael bout, he's got a whole bunch of kids.

447
00:26:01,420 --> 00:26:07,020
So, but I get, I get like carte blanche and it was going to criticize me for how I could

448
00:26:07,020 --> 00:26:09,900
be like, I don't know, but like, do you want help?

449
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:11,900
And then they're like, yep, great.

450
00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:14,020
And I'm like, cool.

451
00:26:14,020 --> 00:26:15,020
Yeah.

452
00:26:15,020 --> 00:26:23,680
Jake, talk to me about this a lot of conversation here in this last gosh, in this last year,

453
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:29,140
last couple of years around, around purity, kind of purity culture, stuff.

454
00:26:29,140 --> 00:26:36,860
And I'll show you how I tie this in because I, I think it touches on our, some, some unhealthy

455
00:26:36,860 --> 00:26:42,980
attitudes that Christians, especially us in the kind of evangelical more, more conservative

456
00:26:42,980 --> 00:26:48,060
space maybe have, have encountered, which it just feels like the backlash.

457
00:26:48,060 --> 00:26:52,080
And me, I was in youth ministry for a long, long time and I, I feel like, I feel like

458
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:57,200
I probably ended my youth men right around the COVID times just in time to not feel the

459
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:02,060
full wave of, cause his kids were going into lockdowns and things like that.

460
00:27:02,060 --> 00:27:04,420
And more and more on, I'm like more and more on devices.

461
00:27:04,420 --> 00:27:13,620
I, I, my suspicion is that this has got worse, but the idea of, just really asking the question,

462
00:27:13,620 --> 00:27:14,620
what, what is it?

463
00:27:14,620 --> 00:27:18,400
Cause, cause you guys have such a theological foundation around this, which I think is just

464
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,680
so immensely helpful.

465
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:30,140
What is it about our understandings of sexuality in terms of what we're communicating to our

466
00:27:30,140 --> 00:27:33,860
kids that has harmed us so much?

467
00:27:33,860 --> 00:27:39,940
Cause, cause we have, we have the theological framework, I think the biblical framework

468
00:27:39,940 --> 00:27:41,460
to address this very, very well.

469
00:27:41,460 --> 00:27:43,900
And yet you've seen the outcomes.

470
00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:45,420
You are well, well aware of it.

471
00:27:45,420 --> 00:27:47,140
You're well aware of the struggles.

472
00:27:47,140 --> 00:27:51,100
We know the, we know the percentages and all of that.

473
00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:53,900
How have we wrongly communicated this?

474
00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:56,580
How have we wrongly lived this out?

475
00:27:56,580 --> 00:28:00,960
Because I think the proof is in the pudding that something has gone haywire here within

476
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,980
our, within our communities, despite the fact of the sort of the foundational theological

477
00:28:05,980 --> 00:28:08,820
resources that we have.

478
00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:13,040
I'm curious on your insight, what you've experienced in the conversations that you, that you have

479
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:18,340
had, because clearly, and this is my own, I'm doing my rant before my rant in a form

480
00:28:18,340 --> 00:28:29,980
of a question, clearly, clearly for all our talk about, about purity, we aren't and are

481
00:28:29,980 --> 00:28:31,780
not getting more so.

482
00:28:31,780 --> 00:28:35,480
So what, what the crap is going on, man?

483
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,100
What is, what is the deal?

484
00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:39,100
Yeah.

485
00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:41,020
Well, well, okay.

486
00:28:41,020 --> 00:28:46,240
I'm gonna do my best to kind of navigate that, but you've like kind of cracked open a few

487
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,100
firecrackers and.

488
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:49,100
Yes I do.

489
00:28:49,100 --> 00:28:50,100
You're welcome.

490
00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:54,580
I'm going to, there's going to be a soundbite or two that I might look back and go, eh,

491
00:28:54,580 --> 00:28:57,380
that could have been probably articulated better.

492
00:28:57,380 --> 00:28:58,380
It's really interesting.

493
00:28:58,380 --> 00:29:00,780
Cause you said the purity culture movement.

494
00:29:00,780 --> 00:29:03,540
I'm, this is slight tangent.

495
00:29:03,540 --> 00:29:04,540
We'll go back.

496
00:29:04,540 --> 00:29:08,740
I'm about to start my doctoral work in the area of modesty.

497
00:29:08,740 --> 00:29:12,340
So yes, cause that's not controversial in the slightest.

498
00:29:12,340 --> 00:29:17,300
No, I really hope the listeners pick up on this.

499
00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:19,100
Like there's a tone of sarcasm there.

500
00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:20,100
Anyway.

501
00:29:20,100 --> 00:29:21,100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

502
00:29:21,100 --> 00:29:22,100
Yeah, please.

503
00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:23,580
No, I'm very excited about this is this will come back.

504
00:29:23,580 --> 00:29:29,980
I'm really interested in some of the ideas of, of beauty and beauty and shame and embodiment

505
00:29:29,980 --> 00:29:30,980
and clothing.

506
00:29:30,980 --> 00:29:36,260
Dirty, all these conversations in how we conduct ourselves publicly with the clothing that

507
00:29:36,260 --> 00:29:37,260
we wear.

508
00:29:37,260 --> 00:29:43,780
It's a really nerdy way of saying how the heck do you talk about modesty in any sense?

509
00:29:43,780 --> 00:29:46,100
So that's going to be the next four years of my life.

510
00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:51,660
One of the big pieces of that is the interesting phenomena of the late nineties, early two

511
00:29:51,660 --> 00:29:54,940
thousands, that was the heyday of purity culture.

512
00:29:54,940 --> 00:29:58,460
And that's the, I kiss dating goodbye.

513
00:29:58,460 --> 00:30:03,980
And then sort of now we bounce a cup about a decade or so that can have two decades and

514
00:30:03,980 --> 00:30:08,660
we have sort of the deconstruction side of things that's wrapped up in sort of the church

515
00:30:08,660 --> 00:30:11,660
hurt pushback of all of that.

516
00:30:11,660 --> 00:30:15,840
And so immediately if you got your head screwed on, you kind of go, there's, there's something

517
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:16,840
there.

518
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:17,840
There's something valid there.

519
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:18,840
Right?

520
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:26,020
Like I, yeah, the purity culture movement made some promises and again, the purity culture.

521
00:30:26,020 --> 00:30:32,520
The many, many yeah, cause we're talking about it as kind of this monolith, which obviously

522
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:38,480
it was not at all in all various and all we kind of have is I think Andy and I think of,

523
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,700
you know, cause we're old there, there were just some distillations of that.

524
00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:44,380
They kind of seeped through.

525
00:30:44,380 --> 00:30:49,600
But me for, so I, we use that term, but for me to point directly at say like, Oh, it was

526
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,240
this organization or this church, whatever that doesn't exist.

527
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,240
That doesn't exist.

528
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,980
So just to be fair and clear, I guess, and it's hard to, because like, you know, let's

529
00:30:59,980 --> 00:31:03,380
say, should we create the purity culture as a monolith?

530
00:31:03,380 --> 00:31:10,360
The one, what you might be able to say is they promised basically just euphoria sex

531
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:16,280
in marriage for till kingdom come, as long as you just kept it in your pants and kind

532
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,740
of put your hands behind your back.

533
00:31:17,740 --> 00:31:19,440
It was very simplistic.

534
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,860
Just obey these set of rules and be a Virgin, like Virgin, like Virgin, like that's the

535
00:31:23,860 --> 00:31:27,880
thing that I heard again and again is virginity was the goal.

536
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,660
Virginity, virginity, virginity.

537
00:31:29,660 --> 00:31:32,440
You see these chants in youth groups, like virginity is cool.

538
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,480
Virginia, you know, and it seemed like that was the, that was the goal.

539
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,280
Do you feel like I'm getting that reasonably accurate?

540
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:40,280
Okay.

541
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:41,280
100%.

542
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,360
And what's interesting is I've talked to certain people who were, who made a lot of mistakes

543
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,720
during that era and the things that they would get up to that.

544
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,280
That technically check the box.

545
00:31:53,280 --> 00:32:00,640
And then it was very, but I've had some really interesting conversations.

546
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:06,040
I've read, I read the most interesting book called a return to modesty by Wendy Schelt.

547
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,040
I think it was.

548
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,560
Now she's a kind of a Jewish atheist.

549
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,440
So it kind of comes with that interesting perspective of like a lot of sort of religious

550
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,000
carry over respects.

551
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,520
So not, not atheist and like the snarky sense.

552
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:23,440
You wrote it in 97, which was the year that I came out and what she would talk about the

553
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,400
cultural pressure she faced.

554
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,740
Was something was unlike we face now.

555
00:32:28,740 --> 00:32:31,840
So what she would have would, it would be genuine pressure.

556
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:38,000
So the tabloids would say such horrible things as how, like how to tempt out, like the tab,

557
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,960
the type of the cultural milieu was conversations about how do you tamp down emotional attachment

558
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:43,960
after a flank?

559
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,840
Like how do you get that pesky, emotional attachment?

560
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,360
Well, and it was, and it was rungy.

561
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,380
It was you sleeping around because you should be.

562
00:32:54,380 --> 00:32:59,400
And if you aren't something wrong with you now, so that that's not a part of my experience.

563
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,880
I'm way too young for that when, but that's what the period of culture is reacting to.

564
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,840
Like even some of the sitcoms that were, that were at their heyday there was like the hahaha,

565
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:09,840
we all sleep together.

566
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,680
And this is very funny laugh.

567
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:19,440
My generation, when I go to the high school, I went to, I went to, I went to a few different

568
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,440
schools.

569
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,160
I remember I went to my, well, the first one I went to was I went to school for advertising.

570
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:32,040
So it was just crazy, coked out, tattooed up, mushroom taking creatives about as liberal

571
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,400
as you could ever hope for.

572
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,280
And they found out that me and a close friend of mine were Christians and that we didn't

573
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:39,720
sleep around.

574
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,720
Almost on the whole, they would just go, huh, you know what?

575
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:44,720
Fair enough.

576
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,800
Good for you guys.

577
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,320
Just and then when we talked to them, they'd be like, yeah, you know what?

578
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:50,320
We're tired.

579
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,600
We know this casual sex is vapid.

580
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:54,840
And they'd throw their hands up.

581
00:33:54,840 --> 00:34:00,000
We, there was an, honestly, I remember very quickly, even if I wanted to sleep around,

582
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,680
I couldn't because most of the people I genuinely had a level of respect for the path that we

583
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:05,680
took.

584
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:06,680
They thought it was pretty cool.

585
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,080
They didn't want to mess around with that.

586
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,720
And that held true for my whole time in secular undergrad.

587
00:34:11,720 --> 00:34:14,800
Very no, again, people will have different experiences for sure.

588
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:21,980
But my take is culturally people are like, and this is actually more, more the secular,

589
00:34:21,980 --> 00:34:28,900
they're kind of just exhausted with the effects of the sexual revolution.

590
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:33,360
There's been a few books against the sexual revolution by Perry, I forget what, Louise

591
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:34,360
Perry.

592
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,720
She wrote a whole book, like there's a whole feminist movement who are basically looking

593
00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:40,120
at a revolution being like, hey, this didn't do much for us.

594
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,560
proper kind of 60s, 70s.

595
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,800
And then Christians, we have our own subspace.

596
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,920
This is so much more than you asked for.

597
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:53,300
Christians have their own subspace of like the church hurt, church to deconstruction,

598
00:34:53,300 --> 00:34:56,340
anti-purity culture thing.

599
00:34:56,340 --> 00:35:02,860
My intuition is there's more bad actors in there kind of filling that fire of encouraging

600
00:35:02,860 --> 00:35:03,860
people.

601
00:35:03,860 --> 00:35:07,620
And I want to be sensitive to like genuinely sensitive to the people who felt the worst

602
00:35:07,620 --> 00:35:10,740
of the period of culture movement and who have felt church.

603
00:35:10,740 --> 00:35:13,020
I mean, there's no lack of that out there.

604
00:35:13,020 --> 00:35:15,980
Genuine people have gone through so much.

605
00:35:15,980 --> 00:35:22,840
But to kind of glamorize the deconstruction world and to make it kind of sexy to talk

606
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:29,760
about purity and to like dis-purity, dis-modesty, you're not building up a really robust biblical

607
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,320
ethic ground up.

608
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:39,300
And so maybe to try and land the plane, when I feel like we get to come at a really interesting

609
00:35:39,300 --> 00:35:44,680
place right now, where most people are kind of like a little like storm tossed by this

610
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,600
whole thing where they're going like, I don't know if like that one Instagram reel that

611
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,940
like talked about how evil the purity culture was.

612
00:35:50,940 --> 00:35:52,560
I don't know if that quite landed.

613
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:57,240
I'm really sure my parents who didn't talk to me any about this at all, God bless them,

614
00:35:57,240 --> 00:35:58,460
but they weren't equipped to do this.

615
00:35:58,460 --> 00:36:01,480
I don't think they did it right.

616
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,720
So the middle ground somewhere.

617
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:06,520
And can I can I can I pitch you my middle ground?

618
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,480
I want to I want to test this out.

619
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:13,800
And I feel really fortunate to have you because you're, you're in so many more broad conversations

620
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,080
because as someone who is developing resources, you're I'm sure it feels like you're in a

621
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,840
lot of broad conversations, right?

622
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:25,640
You're like, hopefully you have a sense that I think you do have like, kind of sample,

623
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,120
you're sampling a lot of different places at all given times.

624
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,120
And it's like, okay, what's the common themes?

625
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,240
What are the themes that are emerging, which I think is a really strong, that gives you

626
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:37,000
some confidence, like when you start hearing kind of these overlapping things, it's like,

627
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,000
okay, we're on the right track.

628
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,280
We're like, we kind of are gauging, right?

629
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:41,280
Here.

630
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,600
Here's what I'm curious about.

631
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:48,840
I'm curious about if the conversation is not about purity, virginity, all of that.

632
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:54,920
And this ties in, by the way, with our with sexual content consumption and all of that.

633
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,920
What about this word of chastity, like this of chasteness?

634
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:07,560
I am intrigued by this because it is a first of all, it is a more ancient term to use,

635
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,920
I think more biblical in a lot of in a lot of ways.

636
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:15,640
Like tying into this idea of, you know, and I'm recovering Wesleyan.

637
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,120
So the holiness thing is like, you know, important, important to me.

638
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,680
I'm team holiness too.

639
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:23,680
Yeah.

640
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:24,680
Okay.

641
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:29,840
We'll edit that out.

642
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:35,740
But a greater sense of a, to your point, like, and I think it touches on ideas of modesty

643
00:37:35,740 --> 00:37:40,880
of like, okay, I have been given this gift of a, of a body.

644
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:47,680
The whole, the whole thing is, is a gift and it is to be stewarded and shepherded properly.

645
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,500
The whole, the whole thing.

646
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:55,480
And it's not, it's not just, it's not okay just to have a conversation about what do

647
00:37:55,480 --> 00:38:01,520
what mechanically, what do I do or not do with my parts, the parts of my body.

648
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:02,520
Right.

649
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,640
And then, and then also, but then mindsets, mindsets attached to that.

650
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,920
So I just looked up the definition of chastity.

651
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,800
I'm always curious about like what the words actually mean.

652
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,760
I know it, but I want to read it from the, from the dictionary.

653
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:19,380
So it says the state of practice of refraining from experimental or especially from all sexual

654
00:38:19,380 --> 00:38:21,640
intercourse vows of, you know, vows of chastity.

655
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,960
So I like the whole like experimental cause it's not just how far can I go before I cross

656
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:27,960
that line?

657
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:28,960
It's just the whole thing.

658
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:34,580
Cause cause Jake, the, the converse, the questions that we, that I have fielded as a youth worker

659
00:38:34,580 --> 00:38:39,120
for years, that how far is too far, I think comes from that.

660
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,320
It's a troubling mindset.

661
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:48,360
I think comes from not a mindset of chastity, but a mindset of, of of elevated like where

662
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,080
virginity is the goal.

663
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:58,560
Like just don't do the thing, whatever, whatever else is, is, is second, third of tertiary concern.

664
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,920
Just don't have sex before you're married.

665
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,280
And as long, as long as you do that, that you're going to be okay.

666
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:13,600
But by the way, by the way, if, if you do fail in that area, God help you like then,

667
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:14,600
then what?

668
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:15,600
Right.

669
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,320
Cause that, and that's where I get, that's where my heart breaks so much for our young

670
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:24,840
people who are surrounded with this hyper sexualized stuff, all the, all the time, they're

671
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,360
going to, let's just be clear.

672
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,340
They are going to make mistakes.

673
00:39:28,340 --> 00:39:29,920
What is the road back for them?

674
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:30,920
What is the path back?

675
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:36,720
And I just wonder if this chastity thing is like, if that's something chaste-ness and

676
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:43,000
I know this sounds like old, old timey language, but this chaste-ness is, is a route, is a

677
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:48,160
route back for them is a, is a way, is because it's a, it's a heart, it's a holistic heart,

678
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:56,840
mind, body, soul way of thinking of like I, I have a, I have a life to steward here in

679
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:01,640
how I'm presenting, what I am revealing to the world, what I'm putting out there to the

680
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:12,080
world and not just in terms of like my, my persona, but in terms of how I can honor God

681
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,880
and honor his people with this life that I, this life that I have been given.

682
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:23,640
And yes, to be, to be in the best place relationally that I can be with, with God, to be in the

683
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:29,200
best place relationally in a very related way with my future spouse, with my future,

684
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:30,560
you know, my future mate.

685
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:38,740
Like because I think for, again, for Andy and I who are just a smidge, a smidge older

686
00:40:38,740 --> 00:40:45,400
than yourself, Jake, I, I know that going into marriage, going into marriage, I mean,

687
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,680
I've been married, let's see, 19 years this summer.

688
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,880
Andy, a few more years.

689
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,600
20, 21 this summer.

690
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:54,600
Yes.

691
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,200
So, and I know that when I'm guessing, I know it was, I won't speak for Andy, but I'm guessing

692
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:04,680
going in and back in those days, coming out of conservative Christian communities, going

693
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:09,360
into marriage, it was like, it's like, I don't really actually know properly how to think

694
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:14,760
about sex now that I, that I'm allowed to do it.

695
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,480
Going back to your point, you know, you're talking about how, like, what, what the crap

696
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,720
that we do if we make that mistake, because they're especially, and they get, and this

697
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:27,240
is going off on a whole nother tangent from what we originally brought, brought you on

698
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:35,040
for, but I think, I would say a tangent, but, but it's related to how people are now, right.

699
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,280
What they're pursuing and what they're looking for on the port on the pornography side.

700
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,600
I think this is what it's, I guess I'm just trying to connect the dots on that.

701
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:48,520
Like yeah, so I think the word chastity where you're saying, you're not saying just don't

702
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:49,520
have sex, right?

703
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:54,600
You're saying like, be like pure with your life, like who you are.

704
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,320
Like that also allows for more grace and forgiveness.

705
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:58,320
Correct.

706
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,400
Just like any other sin does, but because you're not saying, Oh, you know, I did the

707
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,040
ultimate, the ultimate sin, ultimate sin.

708
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,600
Whereas you're just saying like, here, you're saying, there is a path for you to take.

709
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,300
There's a path for you to take that is, that is God's best for you.

710
00:42:13,300 --> 00:42:18,980
You may deviate from that path, but that path will always exist for you for forever.

711
00:42:18,980 --> 00:42:23,380
And by his, by his grace, by his mercy, by the, by the things that are, that are offered

712
00:42:23,380 --> 00:42:27,020
to us, we can, we can find ourselves there again.

713
00:42:27,020 --> 00:42:34,380
Jake, I'm going to guess that in your work with Into the Light, I'm going to guess that

714
00:42:34,380 --> 00:42:38,100
there, you have just seen the hunger for that.

715
00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:42,180
Like for a, like, how do we come back from this thing?

716
00:42:42,180 --> 00:42:45,580
I got in, I got in deep, I got in way over my head.

717
00:42:45,580 --> 00:42:51,320
I found myself overwhelmed and, and probably in the darkest, you know, and by the way,

718
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:56,940
men and women alike, clearly the, the, the numbers are, are going up into the right for,

719
00:42:56,940 --> 00:43:00,180
for both groups.

720
00:43:00,180 --> 00:43:03,200
What hope have people found?

721
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,900
Cause I think it's just such a hopeless, it can feel so hopeless in light of what we're

722
00:43:06,900 --> 00:43:08,040
talking about here.

723
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:14,820
Like if, if it's, oh, I've done the unpardonable sin, I've, you know, I'm an out or, and whether

724
00:43:14,820 --> 00:43:21,920
it's in my, cause I think previous sexual behavior indicates further sexual behavior,

725
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,700
including, and that's the connecting the dots, including porn addictions and, and seeking

726
00:43:26,700 --> 00:43:30,160
these things out online.

727
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:36,680
What, what do you have a sense that people like, what do they really long for?

728
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,040
Like what are they really longing for?

729
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,380
Where are they find, where are they finding hope?

730
00:43:42,380 --> 00:43:44,260
What what can be done?

731
00:43:44,260 --> 00:43:46,020
Like what really, really, really can be done.

732
00:43:46,020 --> 00:43:51,040
Cause I think it, it just like, geez, you know, and I, I would say, you know, it's like,

733
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:57,620
do I just need one more video to like, there's a good, and I'm not saying that you're advocating

734
00:43:57,620 --> 00:44:00,900
for that, but there it's, there's, we have, there's something that has to, that can be

735
00:44:00,900 --> 00:44:05,840
done and you obviously, I mean, you're dedicated the past two years to this.

736
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:07,080
And more.

737
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:12,320
And so what, like, what's, what's possible for people?

738
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,680
What, where can we, where can they go from here?

739
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,680
Totally.

740
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:23,920
The biggest, the biggest it's kind of like, I'm going to give the most obvious answer

741
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:24,920
ever.

742
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,360
It's like, and this is just, I don't mean this glibly.

743
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:34,280
It just sounds so glib the gospel and it becomes, because when you're kind of touching on, it's

744
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:42,680
like this question of the unpardonable sin and lines you cross and how you react to that.

745
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:47,200
And then you have this product of pornography, which is just a Meyer that just sucks you

746
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:53,760
in and makes you live a life that feels like every, like your existence is unpardonable.

747
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,760
Then you have confusion.

748
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,860
And then the relational tension that things like pornography brings or in families, the

749
00:44:59,860 --> 00:45:05,020
things that, um, you know, crossing a line would lead once that gets found out, you're

750
00:45:05,020 --> 00:45:08,260
going to have all these pockets of issues.

751
00:45:08,260 --> 00:45:14,140
At the end of the day, it's like the clarity that the gospel brings about your identity

752
00:45:14,140 --> 00:45:23,140
as a human saying like, okay, all of this, are you a redeemed child of God?

753
00:45:23,140 --> 00:45:27,540
Let's figure that out because like unrepentant sin might mean you're not, but if you're,

754
00:45:27,540 --> 00:45:31,520
if you feel of the Holy Spirit working conviction in you and a desire for the fruits of the

755
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,560
spirit, then that's a sign that you're a Christian.

756
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:35,560
What does it mean to be a Christian?

757
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:41,760
I mean, you, you are positionally loved by God and that's like a secure reality.

758
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:48,100
And so, and then the gospel like, well, the gospel gives us an anthropology to expect

759
00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:52,820
a degree of failing, especially from people who aren't Christians, but, but if anyone

760
00:45:52,820 --> 00:45:54,840
says he has no sin, he deceives himself.

761
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:55,840
Right.

762
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,420
So that's like really like, and that, where do you get that?

763
00:45:58,420 --> 00:46:01,020
I mean, that comes from good Christian community and good preaching.

764
00:46:01,020 --> 00:46:06,540
So that becomes like starts to this becomes questions where I like on the biggest scale

765
00:46:06,540 --> 00:46:07,540
possible.

766
00:46:07,540 --> 00:46:11,620
I just say, get yourself plugged into a local church that preaches.

767
00:46:11,620 --> 00:46:18,960
And that will, that will start to just a really, really good, a really good gospel, just start

768
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,620
bleeding into all these areas of life.

769
00:46:21,620 --> 00:46:26,480
That becomes a slight, that's a true that's truth that I will proclaim today.

770
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:34,360
God takes me home when it comes to specifically these issues of pornography and, and yeah,

771
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,580
I don't, I think I've spent less time.

772
00:46:38,580 --> 00:46:39,580
It's interesting.

773
00:46:39,580 --> 00:46:44,580
So the next resource that we're probably going to build is a podcast series on dating and

774
00:46:44,580 --> 00:46:45,580
pornography.

775
00:46:45,580 --> 00:46:51,380
But I think right now I've got thoughts, obviously I'm a bit rusty on exactly how I would

776
00:46:51,380 --> 00:47:01,340
muse through that incredibly complex process of two young, immature, adventurous individuals

777
00:47:01,340 --> 00:47:05,500
coming together in this thing we call dating and making it to marriage with the existence

778
00:47:05,500 --> 00:47:09,340
of pornography and all the temptations that come with two people that really like each

779
00:47:09,340 --> 00:47:11,140
other spending time together.

780
00:47:11,140 --> 00:47:17,500
Navigate that you guys were, I don't know how, I don't know Andy as much, but like you

781
00:47:17,500 --> 00:47:24,340
guys were youth pastors, you know what kind of a dumpster fire and just life that has

782
00:47:24,340 --> 00:47:25,340
to,

783
00:47:25,340 --> 00:47:30,020
Well, I'll just say this boys, boys, boys are not doing well.

784
00:47:30,020 --> 00:47:31,020
Boys aren't doing well.

785
00:47:31,020 --> 00:47:34,200
They, they're not, and they're not dating.

786
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:39,220
And in the new digital culture it, they, they are getting shut down.

787
00:47:39,220 --> 00:47:44,140
Like on the online culture, the online dating culture too, they're getting shut down.

788
00:47:44,140 --> 00:47:49,220
You know, here's the, I'll, I'll, you kind of mentioned this, I think you touched on

789
00:47:49,220 --> 00:47:55,420
this when you were turning, when you were right now, the content that I listened to

790
00:47:55,420 --> 00:48:00,340
on, on sort of youth culture and what's going on, especially with young adults and young

791
00:48:00,340 --> 00:48:01,340
people.

792
00:48:01,340 --> 00:48:07,420
I'm listening to a lot of like classical liberal philosophers about this stuff because they

793
00:48:07,420 --> 00:48:13,780
sound, they, I don't know how to say this.

794
00:48:13,780 --> 00:48:19,580
They don't fit in with the rest of their crew anymore because they're, they're still pursuing

795
00:48:19,580 --> 00:48:21,580
after truth and they're seeing these trends happen.

796
00:48:21,580 --> 00:48:23,860
They're like, we've got to account for this somehow.

797
00:48:23,860 --> 00:48:24,860
Right.

798
00:48:24,860 --> 00:48:29,200
Turns out this sexual revolution thing it has not landed well and there's dead bodies

799
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:30,200
everywhere.

800
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,200
Right.

801
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:32,700
You know, our young men are not doing well.

802
00:48:32,700 --> 00:48:35,500
Our young men are not dating.

803
00:48:35,500 --> 00:48:41,340
They are, and, and a lot of that is connected to their increased use of pornography.

804
00:48:41,340 --> 00:48:45,260
They're, they're getting sexual release through that and they're, it's kind of just making

805
00:48:45,260 --> 00:48:52,020
them just not get out there into the world.

806
00:48:52,020 --> 00:48:59,620
And then and Christian or not, like by the way, like I just, I think that's kind of in

807
00:48:59,620 --> 00:49:06,260
general, there's not a healthy, that's just my perspective.

808
00:49:06,260 --> 00:49:11,020
I really, really think that we don't have a good, again, this probably goes back to

809
00:49:11,020 --> 00:49:14,680
this purity, chastity, whatever.

810
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:21,260
Like what does a holy relationship look like a godly relationship look like between a man,

811
00:49:21,260 --> 00:49:24,860
a young man and a young woman who are trying to discern if they want to spend the rest

812
00:49:24,860 --> 00:49:26,980
of their lives together.

813
00:49:26,980 --> 00:49:30,220
Trying to decide if they want to fan, you know, all the family stuff.

814
00:49:30,220 --> 00:49:35,700
Cause, cause the thing, the unspoken thing that we all know is like when you are entering

815
00:49:35,700 --> 00:49:42,340
into those in the initial steps, the very initial steps of that relationship, you know,

816
00:49:42,340 --> 00:49:45,960
when the dating thing or whatever, there isn't the back of your mind, it's like, well, we're

817
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,620
discussing whether or not what we're trying to do is navigate whether or not we're going

818
00:49:49,620 --> 00:49:51,620
to have sex eventually.

819
00:49:51,620 --> 00:49:53,900
Like like that's right.

820
00:49:53,900 --> 00:49:56,340
Like that that's kind of out there.

821
00:49:56,340 --> 00:50:05,180
And and yet, we like what happens in the meantime?

822
00:50:05,180 --> 00:50:06,740
What happens before all of that?

823
00:50:06,740 --> 00:50:11,900
What how, how is the relationship invested in, in the meantime, knowing that more than

824
00:50:11,900 --> 00:50:18,980
likely both of them are engaging with, with pornographic material in the interim and,

825
00:50:18,980 --> 00:50:23,740
and wow, to sort of like help them get along, you know, while they're developing this relationship,

826
00:50:23,740 --> 00:50:26,980
which just is crazy.

827
00:50:26,980 --> 00:50:29,220
That's so, it's so, so hard.

828
00:50:29,220 --> 00:50:30,220
Yeah.

829
00:50:30,220 --> 00:50:37,340
My sense of it too, is like, you know, you have you have something like maybe the transgender

830
00:50:37,340 --> 00:50:43,680
movement, which most reasonably solid Christians can look at that hopefully with a good sense

831
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:49,140
of if sadness and compassion, but just go, no, like, right, right.

832
00:50:49,140 --> 00:50:51,740
Pretty straightforward, God created men, God created women.

833
00:50:51,740 --> 00:50:57,480
But what we don't realize is how much of the philosophical presuppositions that led to

834
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,660
that bleed into just the day to day life.

835
00:51:01,660 --> 00:51:02,660
Right.

836
00:51:02,660 --> 00:51:10,740
To have these things of like, these transhumanist layers of like the online me is just as valid

837
00:51:10,740 --> 00:51:13,600
me as the embodied me.

838
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,640
And so that's, that's the, that's a snarky way of, or that's a fancy pants way of just

839
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,280
saying, y'all spend too much time online.

840
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:21,280
That's glib.

841
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,080
But like what that, what that communicates about what it means to be an embodied human

842
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:29,100
being, it starts to devalue that as just to create it.

843
00:51:29,100 --> 00:51:30,100
Good.

844
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:33,780
And then you have like the only way I can make sense of these categories.

845
00:51:33,780 --> 00:51:37,260
And the only clarity that I've been able to bring to all of them is to really shift into

846
00:51:37,260 --> 00:51:44,820
like kind of Catholic, natural law language, just, or just creation norms of like, look,

847
00:51:44,820 --> 00:51:52,860
you were made a male or a female for like in the image of God as equals for a purpose.

848
00:51:52,860 --> 00:51:54,180
Why are you different?

849
00:51:54,180 --> 00:51:58,080
Why are men and women, men and women, there's only one tell jubile reason.

850
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,280
And that is to form a family unit for the purpose of creating children.

851
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,340
And like, that sounds callous.

852
00:52:03,340 --> 00:52:08,140
There's a lot more beautiful ways of saying that, but that adds an intelligibility to

853
00:52:08,140 --> 00:52:09,140
this project.

854
00:52:09,140 --> 00:52:13,220
And it's like, and then you start, start spinning that off and to be like, okay, what's the

855
00:52:13,220 --> 00:52:14,540
purpose of sexuality.

856
00:52:14,540 --> 00:52:20,680
It's like, it has its only, and like, again, this is getting so abstract and so much of

857
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,140
our mission is to take abstract.

858
00:52:22,140 --> 00:52:30,260
Dude, I've read so many Catholics last few years, but is to take these conceptual categories

859
00:52:30,260 --> 00:52:36,280
of what the very purposes of sexuality are finding their clarity and tell us in marriage

860
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:43,700
for the purposes of unity, covenantal frameworks, procreation, and then make that simple and

861
00:52:43,700 --> 00:52:44,700
sing.

862
00:52:44,700 --> 00:52:49,460
I think that's something that just goes, oh, that's really beautiful.

863
00:52:49,460 --> 00:52:56,020
I'm not just trying to scrape the best parts before marriage, but if you can, and this

864
00:52:56,020 --> 00:53:01,420
is, it's hard, but if you can get, and you can, so there's two ditches here.

865
00:53:01,420 --> 00:53:03,860
One is to simplistically go, tell the youth the right things.

866
00:53:03,860 --> 00:53:06,500
And the other thing is to throw your hands up and say, no one gets it.

867
00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:07,500
And that's not true.

868
00:53:07,500 --> 00:53:11,340
There are 16 year olds who can look you in the eye and go, you know what?

869
00:53:11,340 --> 00:53:12,860
I really want to be married.

870
00:53:12,860 --> 00:53:15,540
And if I can't be married, dating's foolish.

871
00:53:15,540 --> 00:53:17,140
I want to do this properly.

872
00:53:17,140 --> 00:53:20,260
And they, they square their shoulders and give it their best shot.

873
00:53:20,260 --> 00:53:24,380
Like God bless the parents who, who worked hard to get them.

874
00:53:24,380 --> 00:53:29,660
But it becomes to, it comes, I guess maybe my answer would be, it comes from my job and

875
00:53:29,660 --> 00:53:34,560
the jobs of the pastors and leaders is to really understand, read some good books to

876
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:38,060
understand the, the, the current center shaping the culture.

877
00:53:38,060 --> 00:53:41,900
I mean, have you guys read, or you've heard of rise and triumph for the modern self by

878
00:53:41,900 --> 00:53:42,900
Carl Truman?

879
00:53:42,900 --> 00:53:43,900
Yeah.

880
00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:44,900
Yep.

881
00:53:44,900 --> 00:53:45,900
Love that book.

882
00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:46,900
Yeah.

883
00:53:46,900 --> 00:53:49,100
I think it's, it's really interesting to read these books that help us understand some of

884
00:53:49,100 --> 00:53:51,620
these ideas of like, like, why aren't people dating right now?

885
00:53:51,620 --> 00:53:55,380
And so, well, there's 101 really, really scary reasons.

886
00:53:55,380 --> 00:54:01,180
And then presenting a compelling reason that a 16 year old can go, I can sign up for that

887
00:54:01,180 --> 00:54:02,180
life.

888
00:54:02,180 --> 00:54:03,180
Yep.

889
00:54:03,180 --> 00:54:07,260
That starts to give them the reasons why you would ever like, because if it's just pleasure,

890
00:54:07,260 --> 00:54:12,020
if it's just like, look, sex is to feel it, then yeah, you try and chase as much of that

891
00:54:12,020 --> 00:54:15,420
as you can before marriage and get the rest of the goods afterwards.

892
00:54:15,420 --> 00:54:17,540
It's not complicated.

893
00:54:17,540 --> 00:54:19,660
Just let me know what I can get away with before God.

894
00:54:19,660 --> 00:54:21,820
And I'll get as much as I can.

895
00:54:21,820 --> 00:54:22,820
If that's your framework.

896
00:54:22,820 --> 00:54:27,860
And so the framework to go like, like I get all the straightforward stuff of saying, yeah,

897
00:54:27,860 --> 00:54:30,340
man, God made a beautiful thing.

898
00:54:30,340 --> 00:54:36,180
That's really painful when it's not in marriage and getting someone to sign up for that.

899
00:54:36,180 --> 00:54:41,860
And then saying, all right, also, let's have a good, a good theology of sin.

900
00:54:41,860 --> 00:54:44,540
We mess up and let's bring this into this.

901
00:54:44,540 --> 00:54:49,100
That was a bit of a word salad, but yeah, it was great.

902
00:54:49,100 --> 00:54:53,300
There's books on this and this is a podcast, you know what I mean?

903
00:54:53,300 --> 00:54:54,300
Yeah.

904
00:54:54,300 --> 00:54:59,700
Well, with, with this into the light work that you guys are doing, it's just so important.

905
00:54:59,700 --> 00:55:05,140
What, what are you like when we talk a year from now, what, what do you hope that you're

906
00:55:05,140 --> 00:55:11,500
telling us a year from now about outcomes, achievements, impact?

907
00:55:11,500 --> 00:55:15,380
What what's like, man, what's your, what's your dream and all of that?

908
00:55:15,380 --> 00:55:17,980
Well, our, you know, we're a ministry.

909
00:55:17,980 --> 00:55:19,060
We have a vision.

910
00:55:19,060 --> 00:55:25,860
Our vision is to see a generation of Christians who love God's design for sexuality and are

911
00:55:25,860 --> 00:55:29,620
equipped to face every form of sexual brokenness.

912
00:55:29,620 --> 00:55:35,780
And so in a year from now, I hope to tell you about maybe some other, some resources

913
00:55:35,780 --> 00:55:40,660
we got on the pipeline, but with regard to these parenting resources, I just hope to

914
00:55:40,660 --> 00:55:48,700
give some fun stats that just say a lot of parents have been able to watch these really

915
00:55:48,700 --> 00:55:53,020
amazing teachers that we've brought together to teach on this.

916
00:55:53,020 --> 00:55:57,420
And I hope to get people just be like, Hey, I made my home safer.

917
00:55:57,420 --> 00:56:02,500
And I actually think like, I'm very sure my seven year old hasn't discovered pornography.

918
00:56:02,500 --> 00:56:08,060
And I hope he can actually make it maybe to 13, 14, 15 before he ever has encounters it.

919
00:56:08,060 --> 00:56:09,780
And we've been talking to him.

920
00:56:09,780 --> 00:56:12,260
He knows what it's going to be when he encounters it.

921
00:56:12,260 --> 00:56:16,380
When he sees it, he'll go, that was the thing mom and dad were talking about.

922
00:56:16,380 --> 00:56:17,380
And I know what I do.

923
00:56:17,380 --> 00:56:20,740
I shut it down and I know I can come to mom and dad and I can tell them I saw something

924
00:56:20,740 --> 00:56:22,820
and I know they're not going to yell at me.

925
00:56:22,820 --> 00:56:26,460
And like they have a script that gives to them.

926
00:56:26,460 --> 00:56:28,020
These things are things that take time.

927
00:56:28,020 --> 00:56:29,020
They're messy.

928
00:56:29,020 --> 00:56:30,020
They're hard.

929
00:56:30,020 --> 00:56:33,880
But if I can have some of those stories, I will be praising God because like, Oh man,

930
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:39,420
just a vision of a generation of kids who can start, who can get into the dating process

931
00:56:39,420 --> 00:56:40,900
and say, you know what?

932
00:56:40,900 --> 00:56:43,620
I actually haven't seen any porn.

933
00:56:43,620 --> 00:56:47,380
And I don't know if we talked about this.

934
00:56:47,380 --> 00:56:48,580
That's my story.

935
00:56:48,580 --> 00:56:55,860
So my mom, I don't remember a time where covenant eyes wasn't on my phone back in the day, about

936
00:56:55,860 --> 00:56:59,260
15 years ago, it was a glitchy piece of software.

937
00:56:59,260 --> 00:57:01,580
And I loathed it.

938
00:57:01,580 --> 00:57:08,340
Listen, gentlemen, I had hermit crabs and I wanted to research those hermit crabs.

939
00:57:08,340 --> 00:57:10,020
And I was researching away.

940
00:57:10,020 --> 00:57:14,020
And then the word sex was on those websites and covered has blocked it.

941
00:57:14,020 --> 00:57:18,580
And I took my laptop to mom and I said, mom, they blocked my hermit crab website.

942
00:57:18,580 --> 00:57:19,860
And my patient typed it in.

943
00:57:19,860 --> 00:57:20,860
I'm sitting there.

944
00:57:20,860 --> 00:57:21,860
It's 12 year old me.

945
00:57:21,860 --> 00:57:22,860
It's huffing and puffing.

946
00:57:22,860 --> 00:57:23,860
I needed this stupid.

947
00:57:23,860 --> 00:57:26,000
I hated coming to so much.

948
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:30,660
Now we're partners with them by the grace of God started realizing 12 year old me, 11

949
00:57:30,660 --> 00:57:32,660
year old me was annoyed.

950
00:57:32,660 --> 00:57:34,700
14, 15 year old me got it.

951
00:57:34,700 --> 00:57:38,580
I started going, okay, I'm older now.

952
00:57:38,580 --> 00:57:40,100
I'm old past puberty.

953
00:57:40,100 --> 00:57:41,340
I understand why.

954
00:57:41,340 --> 00:57:44,820
Cause I didn't, I remember talking to my mom going, why do people look at naked bodies?

955
00:57:44,820 --> 00:57:45,820
It makes no sense.

956
00:57:45,820 --> 00:57:47,660
We started going in.

957
00:57:47,660 --> 00:57:49,060
I started going, all right.

958
00:57:49,060 --> 00:57:50,060
Yeah, I get it.

959
00:57:50,060 --> 00:57:52,500
Mom's been pretty clear about what this stuff is.

960
00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:53,700
I know I can talk to her about it.

961
00:57:53,700 --> 00:57:57,580
I'm going to avoid this stuff by the grace of God.

962
00:57:57,580 --> 00:58:00,100
You never got hooked on pornography.

963
00:58:00,100 --> 00:58:03,620
And I know from, from working with guys who've struggled with pornography, like we're, I

964
00:58:03,620 --> 00:58:07,140
mean, accountability groups, discipleship stuff.

965
00:58:07,140 --> 00:58:09,900
It's just, it, their lives are hard.

966
00:58:09,900 --> 00:58:13,060
It's harder to just do.

967
00:58:13,060 --> 00:58:16,220
They get intrusive thoughts, everything that comes along with it.

968
00:58:16,220 --> 00:58:19,080
It's a, it's a more difficult road.

969
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:24,820
And my life is significantly easier because I don't have quite the same set of things.

970
00:58:24,820 --> 00:58:30,980
I'm sinner saved by grace like everyone else, but I really hope more people get to have

971
00:58:30,980 --> 00:58:32,700
a story similar to mine.

972
00:58:32,700 --> 00:58:37,860
And I, and I hope parents can go to sleep a little easier, not knowing that they're

973
00:58:37,860 --> 00:58:42,540
perfect, not knowing that they've done everything that can be done, but going to sleep going,

974
00:58:42,540 --> 00:58:44,980
I actually locked down my house properly.

975
00:58:44,980 --> 00:58:46,820
I've done, I, before God, I've done the best I can.

976
00:58:46,820 --> 00:58:50,380
And I've actually done a lot and sorry, I'm, I'm ranting guys.

977
00:58:50,380 --> 00:58:51,380
You got it.

978
00:58:51,380 --> 00:58:52,380
That's good.

979
00:58:52,380 --> 00:58:56,660
The best part, the best part about this tech series that for me, which we didn't know going

980
00:58:56,660 --> 00:58:58,820
into it, you can do it.

981
00:58:58,820 --> 00:59:06,100
Like you can, you can lock your house down to a degree of radical safety.

982
00:59:06,100 --> 00:59:08,100
It's actually possible.

983
00:59:08,100 --> 00:59:12,420
It'll cost a little bit of money with some, some routers and some accountability software.

984
00:59:12,420 --> 00:59:13,740
It takes some time.

985
00:59:13,740 --> 00:59:18,220
It might involve chucking a device or two, although we try to avoid that.

986
00:59:18,220 --> 00:59:22,340
But the end of the day, you can go to sleep at night knowing if sexually explicit material

987
00:59:22,340 --> 00:59:25,620
comes into this house, I'll know about it.

988
00:59:25,620 --> 00:59:29,580
And I can have gospel centered conversations as a result of it.

989
00:59:29,580 --> 00:59:30,580
That's one pillar.

990
00:59:30,580 --> 00:59:34,940
The other pillar is, is talking about your children from a young age, about, about embodiment

991
00:59:34,940 --> 00:59:35,940
and God made our bodies good.

992
00:59:35,940 --> 00:59:39,320
And that men and women are good and all these things.

993
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,780
I'm excited that this stuff is possible.

994
00:59:41,780 --> 00:59:44,700
And I'm, I'm really, I'm hyped about this.

995
00:59:44,700 --> 00:59:45,700
Awesome.

996
00:59:45,700 --> 00:59:46,700
Awesome.

997
00:59:46,700 --> 00:59:47,700
Yeah.

998
00:59:47,700 --> 00:59:52,020
I, I really appreciate your, your passion and what you guys are doing with, with the

999
00:59:52,020 --> 00:59:55,540
project overall, not just the documentary, but you know, the documentary.

1000
00:59:55,540 --> 00:59:56,980
The documentary was amazing.

1001
00:59:56,980 --> 01:00:00,960
I watched it when we had you on the first time.

1002
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:06,020
But not just that, but the stuff that you're doing now to take that further, you know,

1003
01:00:06,020 --> 01:00:13,900
cause like you said, it's great to bring awareness to the, the epidemic, the pandemic, whatever

1004
01:00:13,900 --> 01:00:19,140
it is, the, the pornography that's out there.

1005
01:00:19,140 --> 01:00:24,120
But now you're also able to say, this is what we're doing to help parents and families have

1006
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:28,640
this conversation and what do we do about it?

1007
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,900
So yeah, I really appreciate the work that you guys are doing in this ministry.

1008
01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:32,900
Yeah.

1009
01:00:32,900 --> 01:00:35,580
It's a, it is the Lord's work.

1010
01:00:35,580 --> 01:00:36,580
It is important.

1011
01:00:36,580 --> 01:00:41,120
And you know, I don't, I don't know.

1012
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:48,000
I just think you, more and more people I think are being, and I'm glad to hear kind of as

1013
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,980
you've outlined, I think more and more people are open to this conversation.

1014
01:00:50,980 --> 01:00:55,680
Some of our more conservative communities, you know, boy, oh boy, it, it feels, it feels

1015
01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:01,760
a little, I know some people cringe about it, but I will say, I think those days are

1016
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:03,400
behind us more and more.

1017
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,800
So like we're, it's just so blatant in our face.

1018
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:09,200
Eventually we all have to throw our hands up in the air and look up to God and say,

1019
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:10,200
okay, help.

1020
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:11,880
Like we all need help with us.

1021
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:12,880
We really, really do.

1022
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,880
We can't just, you know, say, well, never, never, never mind children.

1023
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,080
It's like, well, the stats don't agree with you.

1024
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:23,220
It's, it's, it's all of our kids and we need to keep them, we need to keep them safe and

1025
01:01:23,220 --> 01:01:26,200
prepare them for things as best as possible.

1026
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:28,920
So I'm grateful for you guys and you're doing that.

1027
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,220
That's good work, Jake.

1028
01:01:31,220 --> 01:01:32,220
I'm grateful.

1029
01:01:32,220 --> 01:01:33,740
I'm very grateful.

1030
01:01:33,740 --> 01:01:37,700
I'm grateful that like, you know, I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot of things to

1031
01:01:37,700 --> 01:01:42,280
be grateful for the people, the people, the men and women who speak in this series are

1032
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:43,580
incredible.

1033
01:01:43,580 --> 01:01:46,240
I mean like Abby Halberstadt.

1034
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:51,280
I mean, there's probably, I doubt many of your listeners because this is for dudes and

1035
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:52,280
dads.

1036
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,880
Abby Halberstadt has written a couple of books for moms.

1037
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:58,320
Dude, Emma's for Mama slaps.

1038
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:00,720
It is such a good book.

1039
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:02,960
Like I was so, like we filmed with her, right?

1040
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:03,960
For this series.

1041
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:08,680
I read that book and I was so encouraged by it and I'm not the target audience, even a

1042
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:09,680
little bit.

1043
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,600
But we just got hurt just walking parents through this issue.

1044
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:14,840
I'm just, I'm really excited about that.

1045
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:20,520
And like, every chance I get, I shout out like our donors, we've got a team.

1046
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:26,600
I mean, these things cost, I mean, literally hundreds of thousands of dollars to make and

1047
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,220
people just believe that this stuff's important.

1048
01:02:29,220 --> 01:02:33,680
And we've got a whole team of monthly donors and some one-time supporters who like just

1049
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:34,960
want to see this stuff happen.

1050
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:39,800
So something I didn't say is January 18th, these all come out and they're all free.

1051
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:45,320
So you can go into the light ministries.ca and you can just immediately start watching

1052
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:46,320
all of this.

1053
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:47,320
Just yeah.

1054
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:51,840
And we hope everybody listening to this will just absolutely help support this stupid business

1055
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:58,680
model that you have set up that just makes no sense this side of heaven, Jake, what in

1056
01:02:58,680 --> 01:02:59,680
the world?

1057
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,200
But clearly you're out here to help people and we're grateful for that.

1058
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:04,960
Well, I'm enough of a capitalist.

1059
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:12,800
To help me that sometimes the nonprofit route was the right choice or not.

1060
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:19,160
But I mean, we're in this now and the reality is I'm so grateful because sometimes we'll

1061
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:26,920
get messages from young kids, like from young kids who just go like, "Hey, I never told

1062
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,020
anybody, but I found the doctor."

1063
01:03:29,020 --> 01:03:32,440
So one of the cool things, we've got a really great online team.

1064
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:37,120
All of our social media was viewed just under half a million times last year.

1065
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:43,000
And that's kids do scrolling TikTok who see David Platt and go, "Hey, I know that guy."

1066
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,200
They go, "Oh, he's talking about pornography?"

1067
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:47,200
Into the light.

1068
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:51,720
And then they go watch it and they don't have to tell anyone and they should, but you're

1069
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:52,720
15.

1070
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:56,960
You can talk so much, but they start getting some of those gospel steps.

1071
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,760
This is for more for the old documentary.

1072
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:00,760
I'm very thankful.

1073
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:03,760
I'm so thankful we were able to make that resource free for everybody.

1074
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:04,760
That's so awesome.

1075
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:05,760
Yeah.

1076
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:06,760
Yeah.

1077
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:10,600
So you mentioned January 18th, this podcast will come out two days or on Tuesday just

1078
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:11,600
after that.

1079
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:12,600
So it'll be, yeah.

1080
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:13,600
It'll be awesome.

1081
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:14,600
Fresh.

1082
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:15,600
Fresh.

1083
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:16,600
Fresh off the presses.

1084
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:23,720
Well, hey Jake, obviously we can't let anyone leave our show before this final segment.

1085
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,360
Now it's time for dudes and dads pop quiz.

1086
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:27,360
Oh yeah.

1087
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:28,360
All right.

1088
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:30,360
All right, Joel, you can go first.

1089
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:31,360
We're going to go first.

1090
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:33,280
So Jake, these are questions that you can't prepare for.

1091
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:34,280
They're random.

1092
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:36,880
They're, they're just, they're all over the place.

1093
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:40,560
And we'll, we'll, we'll see what, we'll see what happens.

1094
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:50,180
So my first question to you, Jake, for those of us living down here outside of Canada,

1095
01:04:50,180 --> 01:04:57,040
what do you feel like Canada's finest culinary contribution is that we, that we don't know

1096
01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:58,320
enough about down here?

1097
01:04:58,320 --> 01:04:59,640
Oh my goodness.

1098
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:00,640
Not even close.

1099
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:01,640
Poutine.

1100
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:06,200
That's the most Canadian thing you could have said.

1101
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:10,000
But here today, you Americans would think, God bless you.

1102
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:18,640
You would think that you had the market cornered on the most calorie laden, it's not even close

1103
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:25,940
as Canadian crush poutine that like all those fries and the cheese curds, it is beautiful.

1104
01:05:25,940 --> 01:05:27,600
It will put you into cardiac arrest.

1105
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,600
It is one of the handful of things that will make it into the new kingdom.

1106
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,040
I'm so grateful.

1107
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:34,040
You heard it here first.

1108
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:35,040
Okay.

1109
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:36,040
Love it.

1110
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:37,040
Love it.

1111
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:38,040
All right.

1112
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:39,040
I'm going to hunch down when we get to heaven and see if we can have something together.

1113
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:40,040
Yeah.

1114
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:44,480
Which talent would you like to most have that you don't currently have?

1115
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:48,040
Ooh, that's really, really interesting.

1116
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:50,440
I'd like to paint.

1117
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:51,440
Is that a talent?

1118
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:52,440
Oh yeah.

1119
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:53,440
Oh yeah.

1120
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:54,440
I don't have that talent.

1121
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:55,440
Yeah.

1122
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:56,440
Yeah.

1123
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:57,440
But I want to grow.

1124
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:59,400
I want to top you guys in 20 years when I get a spare minute.

1125
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:02,240
I want to learn how to paint, but right now I would be a disaster.

1126
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:04,240
That was fun.

1127
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,760
You know, good cup of coffee, just painting.

1128
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,200
That's good.

1129
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:25,440
My next question for you is Jake, what book should I be reading right now?

1130
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:29,480
Anything that any of the Jeeves and Wooster series by PG Woodhouse.

1131
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,760
Do you want me to tell you why?

1132
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:33,760
Would I do?

1133
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:34,760
Please.

1134
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:35,760
I'm going to pitch you guys on this.

1135
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:39,280
I could have given you so many more holy answers, but we're going with this one.

1136
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:42,960
So PG Woodhouse was a humorist in the early 20th century.

1137
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:46,480
He was a contemporary of like Chesterton, kind of a lot of the guys.

1138
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:50,380
And so he wrote these series of very stupid novels.

1139
01:06:50,380 --> 01:06:53,000
The Jeeves and Wooster is just the collection.

1140
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:55,880
It's a category and they have all these different things.

1141
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:57,640
Joy in the morning is the best one.

1142
01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:58,920
It's the funniest.

1143
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:01,200
The plots are irrelevant.

1144
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:02,760
It doesn't matter.

1145
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:03,760
It's the writing.

1146
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:10,000
He is his command of the English language is so funny that, and the best way to do this,

1147
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:15,040
if you guys are audio bookers, if you're not become it.

1148
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:17,000
Stephen Fry, you can buy on audible.

1149
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:20,920
Stephen Fry has the entire Jeeves and Wooster collection on audible.

1150
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:27,240
And Jeeves and Wooster, so Bernie Wooster is sort of this late Victorian, not even really

1151
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:31,200
existing, but this guy, late Victorian noble guy who has way too much money.

1152
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,120
He just has all infinite money.

1153
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:34,120
It doesn't matter.

1154
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,760
And so he lives his life and kind of like doing the most ridiculous things ever.

1155
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:39,320
And he's like a really well-bred guy.

1156
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:43,760
He went to Cambridge, but he's kind of an idiot at the same time.

1157
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:48,860
And Jeeves is his butler, who's a genius and is like renowned the country over as just

1158
01:07:48,860 --> 01:07:50,360
like this brilliant guy.

1159
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:55,160
And they're these silly and all the plots are like, literally he accidentally gets engaged

1160
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:56,920
and has to figure his way out of it.

1161
01:07:56,920 --> 01:08:00,800
Or like he can't, like, he just like, doesn't want to pay it.

1162
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:01,960
So he has this whole caper.

1163
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:02,960
They're silly.

1164
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:03,960
They're light.

1165
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:05,440
They're so stinking funny.

1166
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:09,760
And I haven't, there's nothing that can pull me out of a funk faster than just nonstop

1167
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:14,200
giggling at Jeeves and Wooster by PG Woodhouse read by Stephen Fry, get it on audible.

1168
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:15,520
I should get a referral link for that.

1169
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:16,520
I recommend it.

1170
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:21,920
I'm going to say right now that we've I've asked this question frequently.

1171
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:23,040
Yes, you have.

1172
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:27,560
This is, this is the best answer to this question I've ever gotten.

1173
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:28,560
The best answer.

1174
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:30,560
Go read it and then get back to me.

1175
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:31,560
Yeah.

1176
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:34,200
Cause I say best answer because it's also the most, it was the deepest dive and the

1177
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:35,200
most unexpected.

1178
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:40,560
So I'm now like, I have to go look into this cause I'm, I'm captivated Jake.

1179
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:41,560
Okay.

1180
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:42,560
Andy, next question.

1181
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:45,200
I could have been dumb and just told you to read like Thomas Aquinas or something.

1182
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:47,160
I would have rejected that answer wholeheartedly.

1183
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:48,800
So, all right.

1184
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:52,960
So we know that you have had a great job right now.

1185
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:58,920
Your job is doing this ministry and producing this, this stuff for, for lots of people.

1186
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:04,000
And we appreciate that, but what is the worst job that you've ever had?

1187
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:11,120
The worst job I ever had.

1188
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:13,960
And this could have been a temporary job.

1189
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:15,520
This could have been a one time job.

1190
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,520
Anything that you're getting paid for.

1191
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:18,520
Yeah.

1192
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:19,520
That you received.

1193
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:20,520
Well, maybe not.

1194
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:24,680
Maybe, maybe we're, maybe we're, there's a volunteer job that, that went wrong.

1195
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:26,840
That could also be the case.

1196
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:30,080
Here's the answer I'll give.

1197
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:32,560
I I'm a nerd.

1198
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:34,000
I'm an artist.

1199
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:38,780
I hand wavy stuff work, but I grew up on a farm.

1200
01:09:38,780 --> 01:09:43,120
So like I can, I can do some serious farm work.

1201
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,560
That doesn't mean I like serious farm work.

1202
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:49,320
So there was a season when we had a calf on the farm.

1203
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:55,860
There the mother, I forget what exactly the situation was, but some yucky, lucky young

1204
01:09:55,860 --> 01:10:01,040
lad was volun told to bottle feed this calf every, every morning.

1205
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,240
And Oh, doesn't your heart flutter at the adorableness of it?

1206
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:09,940
No, I little old me had to haul this massive bottle at the, at this like 220 pound calf

1207
01:10:09,940 --> 01:10:14,520
is trying to run me into oblivion as I'm trying to like bottle feed the thing.

1208
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:16,280
As is yes.

1209
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:18,280
Andy has raised a lot of calves actually.

1210
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,120
And I feel like he's really connecting with you.

1211
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:21,120
I am.

1212
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:23,200
Well, it is the very cutest thing.

1213
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:26,240
You know, the baby it's the bottle.

1214
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:27,560
I absolutely hate it too.

1215
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:33,520
Since then we've got, we've got bottle broken calves because we don't, we just, I hate it.

1216
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:34,520
He's like no more.

1217
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:37,560
No, not only that, but it's expensive.

1218
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:39,680
Milk replacer is like $80 a bag.

1219
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:40,680
Holy smokes.

1220
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:41,680
It's ridiculous.

1221
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:42,680
Okay.

1222
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:43,680
No more milk.

1223
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:47,680
Honestly, if it was one calf on the off time, I would probably love that now probably will

1224
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:50,620
be had better things to do, like play Minecraft or something.

1225
01:10:50,620 --> 01:10:53,920
And at 10 o'clock in the morning, that was not my, no, no.

1226
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:54,920
Yeah.

1227
01:10:54,920 --> 01:11:03,160
Jake, my final question to you again, for those of us that are we, we Americans down

1228
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:08,440
here in the U S Southern Canada, the South of the Canada.

1229
01:11:08,440 --> 01:11:19,280
Where in Canada, where in Canada do I need to take my family sometime on a, on a family

1230
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:20,280
vacay?

1231
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:21,280
Where, where, where should I be going?

1232
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:23,320
You're going to go up through Detroit.

1233
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:24,680
I like the start of this already.

1234
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:25,680
Great.

1235
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:26,680
Yeah.

1236
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:28,760
And then up to Detroit and you're gonna keep going through, through Sarnia up to Hamilton.

1237
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:33,200
You're going to go past Hamilton into the Niagara and visit me for a little bit.

1238
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:34,200
Love it.

1239
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:35,200
Thank you.

1240
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:36,200
You're going to, you're going to back to, we're going to get coffee.

1241
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:37,200
It'll be great.

1242
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:40,880
You're going to go back track back through Hamilton and you're going to head up to another

1243
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:45,960
four, another three hours up to Toba Moray, Toba Moray, Canada.

1244
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:46,960
All your list.

1245
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:47,960
How do you spell this?

1246
01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:51,600
T O B E R M O R Y.

1247
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:52,600
It's pretty strict.

1248
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:56,080
It's not Toba Moray, Canada.

1249
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:57,080
The hiking up there.

1250
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:01,600
It is the most, I beg your listeners, Google it.

1251
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:09,240
Gorgeous, glass clear lake, massive rocketing of cliffs, just the coolest.

1252
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:14,520
Like and then the actual town of Toba Moray is this adorable little folksy town with all

1253
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:15,880
these boats and stuff like that.

1254
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:18,160
I can't have more than a thousand people.

1255
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:21,760
And then right in the big harbor, if you're lucky enough, you can do out there, you can

1256
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:22,760
take tours.

1257
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:24,840
There's a massive shipwreck.

1258
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:29,740
That's so huge shipwreck that sunk in like 10 feet below the surface.

1259
01:12:29,740 --> 01:12:33,640
So if you're, if you can maneuver your way over there, you can dive it and just like

1260
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:35,320
go down and swim.

1261
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:38,520
It is, is super, super pretty.

1262
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:41,200
Toba Moray, Canada, 10 10 recommend.

1263
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:42,200
All right.

1264
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:46,040
The only complaint that I have with that is I don't just want to get coffee with you.

1265
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:48,520
I want to get some poutine also.

1266
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:51,040
So we'll make it work.

1267
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:53,920
I got to deal with it.

1268
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:54,920
All right.

1269
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,120
My last question, I'm going to stick with the Canada theme.

1270
01:12:57,120 --> 01:12:58,120
All right.

1271
01:12:58,120 --> 01:12:59,120
Okay.

1272
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:03,100
I wasn't going to sing, but our home man, that's all I know.

1273
01:13:03,100 --> 01:13:06,460
I get home and native land and then I black out the rest.

1274
01:13:06,460 --> 01:13:07,460
But anyway, okay.

1275
01:13:07,460 --> 01:13:08,460
All right.

1276
01:13:08,460 --> 01:13:12,780
So every land has every land, every place that I've ever been, you know, in the United

1277
01:13:12,780 --> 01:13:18,160
States has that one, like really, really odd thing that everyone is like, you either need

1278
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:20,460
like need to see it or not.

1279
01:13:20,460 --> 01:13:22,740
Like the biggest ball of yarn, right?

1280
01:13:22,740 --> 01:13:24,620
Or the biggest boot or the biggest chair.

1281
01:13:24,620 --> 01:13:33,840
What is the weirdest, strangest, like sightseeing thing in Canada or just in general, like something

1282
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:35,840
weird and strange.

1283
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:39,840
Cause we, we down here, we believe that there's a lot of weirdness up in Canada.

1284
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:45,880
So we, I just, we feel like there's something up there that we don't know.

1285
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:47,200
So here's the problem.

1286
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:48,940
Here's the problem.

1287
01:13:48,940 --> 01:13:51,400
That's a very American question.

1288
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:57,600
I'll tell you why.

1289
01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:00,820
America goes, Oh, us weird like this.

1290
01:14:00,820 --> 01:14:06,940
I mean like we have Portland, we have Detroit, we have New York, we have Dallas.

1291
01:14:06,940 --> 01:14:11,900
We're America, the rest of the world things, country, country, country, country.

1292
01:14:11,900 --> 01:14:14,200
So I'm being, I'm being a little bit, sorry.

1293
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:20,840
Canada is as diverse city to city, place to place as every part of Canada is.

1294
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:26,840
And so it's like, it's funny because like, and this is not good, but like there are places

1295
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:32,760
in the deeper part of Southern Ontario that will run Confederate flags behind their diesel

1296
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:33,760
trucks.

1297
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:34,760
Wow.

1298
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:37,280
You're not prepared for that level of subculture.

1299
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:38,280
Wow.

1300
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:45,400
Alternately the, like the Jamaican population of Toronto is crazy.

1301
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:53,640
There's a huge, massive subculture of like Jamaican hybrid, Jamaican infused.

1302
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:55,320
It's really, really interesting.

1303
01:14:55,320 --> 01:15:01,460
Then the, where I'm from is the Niagara, upper Niagara area is, is Dutch Mecca.

1304
01:15:01,460 --> 01:15:06,840
So after world war II, so many Dutch immigrants came over here, but it was really influential

1305
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:08,520
and liberating the Netherlands.

1306
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:12,060
And so you come over here and you have all these Calvinistic Dutch performed churches

1307
01:15:12,060 --> 01:15:17,280
with like six foot nine white people on every corner and like, like me, less, less than

1308
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:19,640
ballpark, but like blonde blue out over here.

1309
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:26,320
And so all these little oddities are just, yeah, Canada's Canada's a great place.

1310
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:28,320
So that's a cool thing.

1311
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:29,320
Awesome.

1312
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:30,860
Well, I, I I've been, I've been there once.

1313
01:15:30,860 --> 01:15:33,800
I went to the Niagara falls actually went up through.

1314
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:34,800
Yeah.

1315
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:38,760
Probably drove right through those towns you're talking about, but yes.

1316
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:42,620
Yeah, that my first trip into Canada was illegally on a canoe.

1317
01:15:42,620 --> 01:15:44,260
That's all I'm going to say.

1318
01:15:44,260 --> 01:15:45,260
So yeah.

1319
01:15:45,260 --> 01:15:50,840
Well, well Jake, we, you've successfully passed the dudes and dads pop quiz.

1320
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:52,140
Well done Jake.

1321
01:15:52,140 --> 01:15:56,140
And we, we thank you so much for being on the show today with us.

1322
01:15:56,140 --> 01:15:57,140
Yeah.

1323
01:15:57,140 --> 01:16:04,320
We're going to make obviously all of the current past into light content easily accessible

1324
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:06,460
on our show notes over at dudesanddads.com.

1325
01:16:06,460 --> 01:16:07,960
Hey everybody.

1326
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:13,880
If you've got ideas for shows or you've got questions or harsh criticisms, we'll take

1327
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:14,880
them all.

1328
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:15,880
Yep.

1329
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:19,520
Dudes and dads podcast@gmail.com is a great way to shoot us an email if you'd like, or

1330
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:26,000
head over to dudesanddads.com to see future episodes, past episodes, present episodes.

1331
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:27,720
We have a time machine over there.

1332
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:28,720
It's amazing.

1333
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:34,080
And if you like to support things, you can support our show by going to the dudesanddads.com/support,

1334
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:39,320
where you can become a Patreon or PayPal or all of that other jazz.

1335
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:40,320
Send us your money.

1336
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:41,320
Hey everybody.

1337
01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:46,160
We're so glad to be starting off on season seven.

1338
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:48,640
We look forward to the coming year.

1339
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,160
Until we see you next time, we wish you grace and peace.

1340
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:51,480
Peace.

1341
01:16:51,480 --> 01:17:00,680
Peace.

1342
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:01,340
(whip cracking)