[0:00:00] Brett Johnson: How do we entice younger generations to get into this?

[0:00:04] Marisa Sheldon: I think it's putting our money where our mouth is. If we say we need folks in aging, we need to entice them if they aren't already excited through paid opportunities, paid internships jobs, and really getting folks excited about the diversity of jobs that exist within the aging network. When I first entered the aging was based in school and started thinking about that, I had a really limited view on what that meant. And my career has taken me so many new places and working with so many different types of folks, and I think really showing that diversity, it's not all direct care, it's not all in long term care communities. And while those are important and valuable jobs, there's so much more that you can do.

[0:00:49] Brett Johnson: We are looking forward our way from Studio City in the five one one studios that's in the Brewery District just south of downtown Columbus, Ohio. Hi. This is Brett. Carol and I have the opportunity to work with Age Friendly Columbus projects for several years. It's been a while since we had the opportunity to get an update, and our pleasure to have Marisa Sheldon, director of Age Friendly Columbus, Franklin County, and the Age Friendly Innovation Center to join us today. Thanks for being a part of our podcast.

[0:01:15] Marisa Sheldon: Happy to be here. I appreciate the invitation.

[0:01:18] Carol Ventresca: It's wonderful to see you. And we always take advantage of opportunities when we're together to talk about what's going on with Age Friendly. I was able to serve on the original task force for Age Friendly as the chair for the employment subcommittee. That was back in 2016. I cannot believe it's already been six years. It seems like yesterday we forged ahead to better understand situations and challenges that older adults face daily in our communities. But we also know the tremendous work that Age Friendly has done, and that shows every day in Columbus. We really have become an Age Friendly city for citizens of all ages. I think that was the most important lesson I learned from Fran Ryan in this whole process is if it's good for older people, it's good for everybody. It really is. So you just recently became the director of Age Friendly earlier this year. So let's first tell our listeners about your path into this program, your experiences, commitment to assisting an aging community.

[0:02:22] Marisa Sheldon: Absolutely so. I found social work when I was an undergrad student, and I'm so always thankful that I did it. Put to words some values and thoughts that I always had but never really could formulate as an 18 year old, and just really always thankful for that path to finding it at Ohio State. And to get into the social work program at Ohio State at the time, you had to do some volunteer hours. And I was home that summer back in Cleveland, and I didn't have a car, and so I was coaching swimming for some young kids. And then my volunteer hours were at the only place I could walk, which was at a long term care community up the street from my parents. And so I spent the summer working with kids and working with older adults. And it became really clear that kids were not my future professionally and that where I found my energy and my excitement was being with the older adults. I was volunteering under the activities coordinator and so I got to just find joy and being with them, going to the grocery store and helping them, going out to lunch, there was no agenda. It was just being and enjoying their presence. And that's really where my passion started.

[0:03:30] Brett Johnson: No toys to pick up.

[0:03:31] Marisa Sheldon: Yeah, no toys to pick up or no little ones not listening.

[0:03:36] Carol Ventresca: Yes. As a Girl Scout camp counselor and I had twelve year old girls, I knew right then that I likely would never be a mom and he definitely wasn't going to be a teacher.

[0:03:44] Marisa Sheldon: I love it. I am a mom and love my children, but knew professionally that yes, older adults were my space. And so throughout my education, my Masters and my undergrad both in social work, I interned with a hospice here locally and then spent some time with the Alzheimer's Association as an intern and then was hired on at the Alzheimer's Association after I graduated. So I spent some time working there, coordinating the support groups program and then the helpline. So the Alzheimer's Association has a 24 hours helpline. They coordinated and that really gave me some amazing boots on the ground work with older adults and caregivers. And I then transitioned to the Ohio State University. At that time I was working in the field office of the College of Social Work and working with students. And what that job really did for me was expand my knowledge beyond the aging network to really understand the landscape of service here in Central Ohio and really commit me to how important education is and kind of that next generation of leaders in nonprofit. And then when Age Friendly joined the University in late 2018, I had the opportunity to join the team as the Assistant director and really believe it brought together my passions working with older adults, but then also working within that education with students and mentoring them and fostering that next generation of leaders in aging.

[0:05:04] Carol Ventresca: I liked your comment about the notion of understanding the community in Franklin County, Central Ohio, and all the resources we have in better understanding that. And that's really what we love about doing the podcast, is that there are so many resources here and if you have a question, you can find an answer.

[0:05:23] Marisa Sheldon: Absolutely. We are service rich.

[0:05:26] Carol Ventresca: Yes, we are.

[0:05:27] Brett Johnson: Right. Well, Age Friendly projects had already been created around the country prior to it being here. Can you talk about the development of the project here in Columbus? How did it start? And maybe some top accomplishments that's happened over the last six years?

[0:05:39] Marisa Sheldon: Yeah, absolutely. So the age friendly framework is technically held by the World Health Organization. It's a five year framework they define for communities, not to say we are age friendly, but to work to become more age friendly and commit that from their top leadership.

[0:05:55] Brett Johnson: So it's not really a certification. It is a certification, I guess, but it's a network.

[0:05:59] Marisa Sheldon: And then, yes, you work towards that goal, and it takes a letter of commitment from your top elected officials. So when we joined as Columbus, that was through the mayor, Mayorgan Thur, and then when we joined as the county, that was through our county commissioners. So it looks different in every community. When Columbus joined the network in 2018, we were the 64th community in the country. And now the network, which AARP Livable communities kind of holds and monitors, is nearing almost 700 communities. So there has been tremendous growth, and that is states, counties, cities, townships, all levels of communities have joined. And when I think back on some of the top accomplishments, it's really hard to pick, because what's beautiful about the age friendly world and the work that we do is it crosses across the whole life of older adults. We're looking at housing, transportation, your home, the services that are available. And so I would point to a few, but I'm sure I'll forget some. We've piloted a lot of transportation projects because we know how critical transportation is to the life of an older adult. Because always what we try and do is ground our pilots and our projects and the data and the experience of older adults. So the data tells us that older adults outlive their ability to drive between seven and ten years. And then our local data and experience directly from older adults says that primarily, older adults here still drive upwards of 90% of older adults. That's our primary way of driving when they share with us. And so through focus groups, we learned about ideas that might work to support alternative transportation.

[0:07:38] Marisa Sheldon: So helped get some senior Circulators in town off the ground. We did a pilot project with Lyft that allowed older adults in a more equitable and safe way to experience what it was like to use Lyft. We've done some other projects around transportation that we're really proud of. I would say our Positive aging campaigns have been something I've really been proud of. Over the years, we have never used stock photos in any of our reports or our projects, any of our publications, and that's really core to highlighting the vibrancy that exists in our city and the amazing champions. When you look through our reports, we hope you see someone you know. And so investing in photos and photo shoots with local older adults has been a really, really special and powerful accomplishment. And then sharing those photos with others so they can use them and really highlight our local older adults.

[0:08:33] Carol Ventresca: Let's go back to that notion. Transportation. So what you're saying, I think, is that we are driving longer here in Columbus because we can or because we think we have to. Because basically transportation is really critical in Colombia.

[0:08:49] Marisa Sheldon: Incredibly critical, yes. So I would say it's a yes. And I would say people are probably driving longer than they want to because they feel they need to. And there's a lot of research out there that if you've never been one to use alternative transportation like the bus, that it's hard to learn as an older adult, harder to learn, and if you are more comfortable with that or have supported training to do that, that you're more likely to use those. So I think it's a combination of a lot of factors. But really, we know that transportation is critical to folks thriving and staying in their community and being able to age in place, and so really doing a lot to pilot some new ideas around that.

[0:09:28] Carol Ventresca: I think one of the differences that I learned in working with older adults, as opposed to my 18 year old students at Ohio State is little kids. You can kind of herd them in a group. Older adults are individuals who often have individual needs. You can't herd a group of people to the doctor's office. It very much is a one to one service. Shout out to Kota. I think they've really tried to make alternatives, opportunities out there. But it's hard. It's very hard.

[0:10:02] Marisa Sheldon: Well, and I think your point is well taken that what it looks like to age in the community looks different for everyone. Older adults are not a homogeneous group of folks. And we are seeing that change even more as we have more and more people in this demographic. So we are an older community than we've ever been before, and we will continue to be an older community than we've ever been before. And while some folks really look at that as a negative within the age friendly world, and in my perspective, that's an opportunity and a space for our communities to do better and to learn from the wisdom of our elders and to let their knowledge be infused in the changes we make. And so it's really this special space for our communities to improve and become better for people of all ages. Like you said, I have a walker. It's helpful for me to have a curb cut. But as a mom pushing a stroller, that's really helpful too.

[0:10:57] Carol Ventresca: Absolutely. Just as Fran used to tell us, if an older adult needs to be in an enclosed shelter at the bus stop, so does the mom with the stroller, the student carrying a backpack full of books, whomever that shelter is still necessary. Yeah.

[0:11:14] Marisa Sheldon: We recently did a bunch of community engagement all around transit stops locally. We got some funding and working alongside Koda to look at what does it mean to have an inclusive bus stop? And as a part of that, we did focus groups with older adults and people with disabilities to learn about the accessibility and inclusivity of bus stops. And I bring this up because what we learned that surprised me so much was through a focus group of people with slow vision and visual impairments, and that the bus stop, while the protection from the weather is so important, it allows the sound to reverberate off of something much better than just a pole in the ground. So if you're used to using auditory cues to find things, if you have a visual impairment, that is a huge benefit, as well as it's much easier to direct a service dog to a shelter than to just a pole with a sign on it. And so I love to get surprised in this job through the community engagement that we do, because the answers exist in the community, if you ask folks, and it's that collective wisdom. So that was one of those examples of being surprised, because I always use that same example. Yeah, a shelter is great for an older adult at a bus stop, but also for anyone of any age to protect you from the weather. But then looking at it from all these new lenses about how useful that can be for people for different reasons right.

[0:12:32] Carol Ventresca: The word collective and connecting, that has been the most exciting part of the work I've done with Age Friendly is because everybody is welcome to the table. When we hear Age Friendly, everybody immediately thinks 90 year old folks in wheelchairs, and that's really not what it's about. So when we first started the Age Friendly project and you had mentioned the mayor was on board, the commissioners were on board. Bottom line is they're still on board. This was not just a one and done kind of thing. The program focuses on this population, but it connects all the constituencies, and everybody's got a seat at the table. You've pulled in not just the mayor and the commissioners, but other elected officials, government offices, nonprofits like mine, educational institutions, many more. How has that dynamic partnership really strengthened the program and created more success?

[0:13:32] Marisa Sheldon: Yeah, I think that's a great question. We truly couldn't do this without everyone. Age Friendly doesn't have clients day to day. We are here to inspire and provide data and research behind the changes and find the funding, and that takes everyone at the table. And I love that language. And it made me think recently about we hosted a big table conversation when Columbus Foundation did that so recently, and it was alongside the Central Ohio Area Agency on Aging and with council member Lord As Borosa di Padilla, who's over the Aging Committee for the City of Columbus. And we intentionally had folks at the table from all parts of our community. We had elected officials like the council member we had directors of big agencies like the director of COA and American Red Cross, but then we had older adults and residents and community advocates so that they could all learn from each other about the experiences. And that was all focused on what it means to age in a warmer world and to be better prepared as we have more emergencies related to weather and power outages. And it takes all of us to find the solutions to these big ideas. A former dean at the College of Social Work would always say the simple problems have been solved, we've already figured those out. And to figure out how we solve big problems, we need to all come together. And I also think it's been a really powerful part of our process at Age Friendly to have those elected officials and to have those decision makers next to our older residents. Because it's one thing for me as a 30, something to share about an experience and how things could be improved or changed, but it's very different to hear it directly from the older adult that's experiencing that day to day and just really have appreciated the commitment from our city and county to always listening and being a part of those conversations.

[0:15:21] Carol Ventresca: One of the examples of getting an elected official involved was the recent program that auditor Stanziano did with Katie White, who was your predecessor. And talking about everybody was all up in arms about the increase in taxes when there was in a reevaluation of property in Franklin County. Well, somebody who's still working, sure, that is a huge issue, but think about the older adult who's not only not working, but dependent on Social Security and until this year lucky to get a 2% increase, they couldn't afford more taxes on their home.

[0:15:58] Marisa Sheldon: Yeah, I think that was another great example of we've built these relationships and have report with our elected officials and some of those decision makers in key spaces in our city and county and to be able to say we're hearing this, are you hearing the same thing? And how can we come together and learn more about this and find some solutions? So we heard from one of our community partners that a nonprofit about older adults that they were serving experiencing challenges around property taxes. We were able to then take that to the auditor and he said I'm hearing that too, so let's learn more and let's figure out some solutions. And just having those established relationships and that rapport built for years now, it's really powerful and then getting to those solutions together. Great.

[0:16:41] Brett Johnson: So you think the Age Friendly became a louder voice then because of the collective? So it's a bullhorn for the older adults in Central Ohio, let's put it to be heard.

[0:16:56] Marisa Sheldon: Yeah, we sure hope we are. We as an organization sit on lots of committees and we are always there to try and add what we say is the aging lens. If that aging voice hasn't traditionally been on that transportation committee or on a committee around disability issues, we want to make sure that that voice is there. But to do that, we also have to always be engaged with the community and listening. And so it's kind of being in both of those roles at the same time and holding focus groups and doing surveys and going out to community events with older adults and then taking that back or taking the older adult with you to those conversations.

[0:17:32] Brett Johnson: Right, okay.

[0:17:32] Carol Ventresca: It's an interesting thing that you said, Brett, with calling it a bullhorn because having those elected officials sitting down and hearing firsthand from an older adult not only lets them learn more, but then when they take new legislation, which is necessary for some of the recommendations from the auditor's report, the state needs to work on this. Well, a legislature now has firsthand knowledge from an individual who has suffered through this to take with them as they engage the rest of the legislative bodies to really try to make change.

[0:18:12] Marisa Sheldon: Yeah, I think a core part of our work is really creating processes in which those voices can be heard that are sustainable, and we try and do that across all the areas we work in.

[0:18:21] Carol Ventresca: I mean, whoever would have thought about focus groups with seniors and then all of a sudden now you're looking at roundtables of discussion and surveys and people at the table. I remember I've seen the pictures. I wasn't there, but seeing the pictures when there was the first sort of walkabout in Clintonville and Katie's there with all of the older adults in Clintonville talking about cutoffs for the for strollers and wheelchairs on the corners and things like that.

[0:18:57] Marisa Sheldon: Yes. Walk audits are a really special experience if you've never done one where you come together with constituents and decision makers to literally walk a pass, whether it has sidewalk or not in a community to really see what that? Feels like and experience it. And to have an older adult be able to show an elected official just through that experience, what it's like to traverse their community is powerful. We recently, actually, about a year ago, we did a walk on it and had an individual who was blind with us. And the image I will never get out of my head is her going to a bus stop that was right next to the road and trying to find that pole in the ground with her cane and nearly being in the road. And just how powerful that was to see and witness and the passion that builds in you and the sense of urgency that can build for the folks who can then make change is really powerful.

[0:19:56] Carol Ventresca: Every time I hear these situations, I used to drive past a pole in the ground on the back side of the airport on Hamilton Road and rain, snow, whatever. It's literally just a pole in the ground. There is no sidewalk, grass and mud within 2ft of Hamilton Road, which is a pretty busy street right there. And people went, Moms, with two or three little kids. It was awful. I mean, they need something right there, but because of the airport, they're probably limited on what they can put up.

[0:20:40] Marisa Sheldon: Yeah. What I've learned in this world too, is it's not always that folks don't want to. It's just often more complicated or they don't know. And so being able to show them and show them through the experience and the stories and the data, it's really powerful.

[0:20:56] Brett Johnson: I'm guessing some who don't understand the importance of this work. After all, older adults have had their day. As it says, it's time for younger generations to gain momentum. And it's been exciting for Carol and I to have a few younger people come in and they're in this world. So that's very cool. But it seems like we're at a critical stage given trajections on the increase in our elderly population over the next decade or so. And then you just mentioned, too, we seem to be aging, people want to stay. Can you give us a clear picture of why everything is so important as we continue to move forward?

[0:21:32] Marisa Sheldon: Yeah. One of the core parts and pillars of our work is thinking about reducing ageism and positive aging. And I think you spoke to it well. That is pretty pervasive in our community, not just here in central Ohio, but all over. Pay attention the next time you are looking through a magazine or watching commercials. And how do they present older adults? What is the messaging? How many antiaging lotions are they talking about in those commercials? And to push it back to the research, what the research shows us is that if you have negative views of your own aging, that actually takes years off your life, upwards of seven years. And that's powerful. When we think about our longevity and our health, and as I hope I've alluded to, many times our communities are better with older adults and better for older adults. We couldn't do this without them. And I think that we should honor the older adults in our community by building a space that works better for everyone. And we know that everyone wants to age. Not everyone.

[0:22:31] Marisa Sheldon: We know that most folks want to age within their community and typically within their home. And we have the knowledge to support them to do that. And so building up those resources as our communities do live longer than ever is really, really important.

[0:22:45] Brett Johnson: Do you see this evolving as well? Because you're now six to ten years into this as a project. So when it began, that person that was actually 70s, now 80 to year old, I mean, we're kind of evolving into the younger boomers and Gen Xers getting into this age over the next 20 years. Do you see some changes, or at least you projecting out going, okay, that Gen Xer, that's 56, 57 in ten years. They're not elderly, but we have to be cognizant of that need.

[0:23:23] Marisa Sheldon: Yeah, when we did our initial assessment in 2016 and then did a reassessment in 2021, it was intentional that it was sent out to folks 50 plus, because if we want to plan for the future in an intentional way, we need to include those voices. And I always reflect about my perceptions when I was young, about my grandparents and great grandparents that I knew and what it meant to be old 10, 20, 30 years ago. And that looks very different than today, and that will continue to change. And I give the example of one of our initiatives where we brought Nesterly to central Ohio. I think you've had Francis from COA here on the podcast, and for some folks, that's not a comfortable solution. Maybe they've never lived with anyone outside of their family because generationally, that's not what felt comfortable. But as we have more and more older adults and new generations coming into older age, that might feel more comfortable for some. So really looking at solutions that work across the generations and might have not felt possible a handful of years ago, but might be possible now.

[0:24:34] Carol Ventresca: Miami scripps gerontology program. And I haven't looked at the most recent data, but at one point in time, there was a county in Ohio, I think It Was Noble County, that was literally Going to reach 50% of population. I want to say 50 and over by 2035. In that Franklin County, residents don't see an aging population because as the capital, we tend to have younger workers Coming into town. But also with the universities, we have this huge younger population. So I think that people don't realize that here in central Ohio that aging population is growing.

[0:25:22] Marisa Sheldon: It is, yeah. Our projections are similar to many communities where between 2010 and 2050, we were set to double the number and percentage of older adults in our community. And even if that's not as large as some of the other communities and counties in Ohio, I think you were right about that Noble County being that first one, and there are some others following that far behind. They're still a valuable part of our community, and their voices are important, and we should do what we can to create a community that works for them, because as we said, it works better for everyone in that right.

[0:25:56] Carol Ventresca: Well, and two Ohio overall in 2010 when they were doing the projections on age, at that point in time, older adults for the most part around most of the state was under 20%. But by 20, 30, 35 or 2050, that, you know, we're looking another generation here, another decade. It was where there was only going to be one county in Ohio that would be under 20% on older adult population. So Ohio overall. Now, COVID's changed a little bit about that. We lost many, many of our older adults because of the pandemic, but I don't think it's that much that it's going to skew those numbers very much.

[0:26:41] Marisa Sheldon: Something that I often talk about when I look at the demographic breakdown across generations is that our baby boomers are the largest generation we had ever seen. But the generations behind them, Gen X, Millennial, et cetera, are just as large. So if we do our best to create a community now as our baby boomers enter old age, we are going to set ourselves up for what it looks like to have that many older adults in our community moving forward.

[0:27:08] Carol Ventresca: Right? Good point. Okay, so Marisa, Age Friendly went through some changes that we've sort of just basically talked about here. It started out as an independent project, actually under Morpsey, and now it's nestled into Ohio State's College of Social Work since around 2019, I think we said. And the Innovation Center was launched in 2021 with the vision to create a more resilient community through research, education, and engagement. So can you give us a little bit of an overview of this new center and its goals? Absolutely.

[0:27:52] Marisa Sheldon: So Age Friendly, as we've talked about, joined the network in 2016, and we completed that first five year round of improvement. And while we've continued that and did another reassessment or working through that five year framework, we took a step back at the end of that first round and said our work here in central Ohio through Age Friendly, Thomas and Franklin County can be bigger. We can do more and have more impact through our research and education and engagement beyond just our own community if we had the umbrella of being a center. So we became an academic center of the Ohio State University College of Social Work, as you mentioned, in 2021. And that's allowed us to really enhance our partnerships across the university to deepen our research outside of Franklin County. So we're, for example, doing a transportation study that's in both Franklin County and Union County right now. And we also received funding from the Health Path Foundation of Ohio, which covers what they call the sideburns of the state, those outer counties on each side of the state to provide what we call technical assistance to other communities looking to enter the Age funding network or that are just in the early start to provide some mentoring and supporting and share our lessons learned here in Franklin County. So really what the Innovation Center has done has allowed us to expand our footprint, expand our team, expand our funding opportunities with the idea that all of that research and all of that knowledge, then we can bring back to our own community to do even better here.

[0:29:24] Carol Ventresca: Well, when we started, you had mentioned that we were the 64th Age Friendly program. And so when we were doing all that initial evaluation. We had something to go on. We had a framework to start with which was much better. Now Ohio has the opportunity to literally make sure age friendly is throughout the state, whether it's urban or rural, within a large city like Columbus or smaller cities around, and with having all of the hard lessons learned and information. So that's wonderful.

[0:30:03] Brett Johnson: And now I never heard Ohio had sideburns everything in addition to age friendly. Now I know we have sideburns. I did. Never heard to call that. That's interesting. I do. I like it too. It's interesting because the whole new perspective every time I see the map going, oh, those are side bears.

[0:30:20] Carol Ventresca: But think about the little funny Southern thing is the beard. It looks kind of like a little beard.

[0:30:28] Brett Johnson: Yeah, exactly. Having the powerhouse of Ohio State behind you, that's got to be a huge boost, if nothing else, for networking and just the hey, we are part of football tickets. Everybody thinks that's the key. How has the university supported the project and even changed or strengthened the programs too?

[0:30:51] Marisa Sheldon: You can't go anywhere in Ohio, especially in central Ohio, and say Ohio State and not have folks know what that means. And the reputation alone is really powerful, and especially being within the College of Social Work, who has an amazing reputation for being community engaged and supporting community programs. So that's a big piece of it. And then one of the things that is so powerful is the age friendly work, as I said, cuts across the life of all parts of an older adult experience in our community. And we can't be an expert in all those things. We can't be experts in transportation and housing, the built environment, the service environment. And so to be able to pull in other faculty and researchers who are experts in those areas has been amazing to say, we've got this project we're working on and we'd love your insights, we'd love for you to collaborate. It's given us access to students. Since being at the university, we've engaged with almost 150 students. And those engagements are not one off, they are in depth. We have 13 students with us just right now, this semester, who are engaging in different ways on our research projects and learning about the age friendly work. And they're from all disciplines. We have occupational therapy, social work, we've had speech and hearing, city and regional planning, a student from the Japanese program, all these different programs. And having access to these students is so exciting to infuse into our work and really give us new ideas and build our capacity. So I really feel like we would not be where we are today without the university's commitment and really the support across all of the programs at Ohio State.

[0:32:33] Carol Ventresca: That whole notion of bringing students in when I can remember working at my agency and often having conversations with faculty at all of the schools around the state going, how do we get students involved in aging careers? And I used to tell a lot of folks, older as well as younger, if you're looking for a growing career opportunity, anything that services an older adult is going to be growing just out of necessity. But it's also bringing not I mean, we're not just talking caregivers here. We are talking about people to do policy, architectural students to talk about what should senior housing really look like. You go into a senior housing facility and the little tiny refrigerator that you're allowed to have an assisted living is near the floor. I can't bend over to get into it, let alone an older adult or cupboards that they can't get into to reach and get something. Those are all important next steps for us.

[0:33:46] Marisa Sheldon: Yeah. So we so value our ability to have students because, one, they build capacity, but two, we know that that workforce shortage is real in aging and that most folks are not getting any education on what it means to be an older adult in their program if they aren't seeking it out. So in this vein of trying to inspire that next generation of leaders in aging and in adding the aging lens across the university and across disciplines, we've really put a lot of our energy and a lot of time and funding behind building out a Scholars program. So students spend time with us, and it's paid where they're experiencing the aging network, they're learning about the services, they're spending time with older adults, whether that's just through conversations, through our focus groups, through doing service, so that they can leave with that knowledge to either take into the aging network and build up that workforce. But then also, if it's someone who's setting city and regional planning and they go work in a municipality locally, I want them to have that knowledge of what it looks like to be an older adult and what works better for an older adult when they're making decisions around sidewalks and infrastructure and policy. So really, we want to build that pipeline in aging, and then we want to add that aging lens across all disciplines.

[0:35:06] Carol Ventresca: Right? Right. Well, it sounds to me like you have lots going on, but we want to know what's coming up for 2023. So can you give us a little bit of a sneak peek on what we should expect?

[0:35:19] Marisa Sheldon: Absolutely. We are busy. I mentioned our regional assessment on aging that we completed, which was really an exciting undertaking, and now we're taking a step back and saying, what do we need to do with that data? What are our next big strategic buckets we want to work in? We've done a lot of work in housing, a lot of work in transportation, and I see those continuing, and we've got some projects under that. But what else? We're looking a lot at what it means to feel connected in your community and how that impacts your sense of safety. I mentioned that we're looking at what it means to age in a warmer world and how can our emergency preparedness plans and response be better set up to work for older adults. So we are going to bring together older adults and various stakeholders this coming year to really help us define those buckets and those areas that we should be working in together. Because the data is one thing, but then we need those voices and experiences to really infuse that. So I'm excited for what's to come. It's hard to sit in that ambiguity and that discomfort of not exactly knowing and not exactly having all those projects defined, but that's where the good stuff happens, that's where the learning happens, and that's where we can kind of combine all those pieces to help us figure out what's next.

[0:36:37] Carol Ventresca: One of the things that we talked about before we started The Real Tape is that you have some new staff members.

[0:36:43] Marisa Sheldon: We do. As you mentioned, our founding director, Katie White, moved on to a new opportunity with the Central Ohio Area Agency on Aging. And while we were sad to lose her, if there was anywhere for her to go, it was COA one of our strongest partners. And with that meant that we got to bring on some new staff through I transitioned to Director. So then our Assistant Director role was open and we received that new funding to creating our Hremli Technical Assistance Program. So we were able to welcome Christine Haple, who had previously been the founding director of Village in the Ville, another one of our partners as our assistant director and then Unha SA, who has joined us to coordinate our technical assistance program, who has lots of wonderful experience across the country working directly with older adults in mental health and education. And it's just really exciting to have new folks on board and to learn from them and their experiences in the community with older adults and let that translate into the bigger change that we're all able to make together.

[0:37:48] Carol Ventresca: Technical issues are huge because, number one, as I always tell everybody, baby boomers started the Internet. We know what it is. We know how to use it. We use it differently than you do, but we know how to use it. But as we're looking at that next group, the next 50 55 moving up and then the next 50 55 moving up are more tech savvy. But technology changes so quickly. Need to be able to keep people up.

[0:38:16] Marisa Sheldon: Yeah. So technology is one of those things that is a necessary evil in life these days and became even more necessary during COVID Yeah. Oftentimes what we see is that it's not a lack of interest, but it's the comfort and the access and the resources. Money and WiFi is not cheap these days. A phone or a computer, those are not cheap. So it's kind of all of those layers building together to better support folks.

[0:38:43] Brett Johnson: Well, your path to your career may not be as unusual. You hear a lot of people doing what you did, doing on top of the bug, but not all younger generations are going to go that path. How do we entice younger generations to get into this?

[0:38:58] Marisa Sheldon: I think it's putting our money where our mouth is. If we say we need folks in aging, we need to entice them, if they aren't already excited, through paid opportunities, paid internships, jobs, and really getting folks excited about the diversity of jobs that exist within the aging network. When I first entered the aging space in school and started thinking about that, I had a really limited view on what that meant. And my career has taken me so many new places and working with so many different types of folks and I think really showing that diversity, it's not all direct care, it's not all in long term care communities. And while those are important and valuable jobs, there's so much more that you can do to be a part of this network. And I think highlighting that is really important.

[0:39:45] Brett Johnson: I know both our kids went through high school going to college and they did research on their careers and that entailed how much you're going to make when you do this sort of thing. And I would think that would be a big benefit, is really laying out what this career path can do in the multiple ways it can and what the money is somehow when that research is out there that presents it. And yes, it's not the care. Yes, those are important, but it's just the tip of the iceberg. And that's typically what we focus on is the older, the assisted living, the independent living, the you know, you're in an older adult center and you're holding bingo. I mean, yes, that's the typical, but it's like, but that's, that may not even be reality in another ten years, right, for those moving into this because we're going to be more of a technology generation. So the bingo, it's just going to be a different entertainment and a different way of settling in and what you're going to do when you get older.

[0:40:46] Carol Ventresca: I have a great story. When I was in Catholic high school with these wonderful nuns who all retired and went to their home convent in Upper State, New York. And I was talking to the development director, and this has probably been easy, five or six, probably more years than that, and she was saying something about the girls, the nuns having a bowling banquet. And I go, Are you serious? I mean, these women were like in their eighties and nineties. They said a bowling banquet? And she goes, it's we bowling. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Here are these women who have been educators their whole lives in their eighty s and ninety s, and they're going gangbusters on we bowling it. It is going to. And that's been eight eight years or so ago.

[0:41:34] Brett Johnson: Yeah.

[0:41:35] Carol Ventresca: I mean, in another 1015 years, we're we're looking at whole new areas.

[0:41:39] Brett Johnson: Right.

[0:41:40] Carol Ventresca: I think the other thing, too, in terms of careers with young folks, it used to be where a lot of these kinds of services were only happening in nonprofits, but now we've really expanded the scope of what senior needs are. If you want to age in place, how do you make homes being built today to be capable of homes for an older adult? Don't think about having to add bars to the bathroom. Think about how do you make it better now? So getting students in those kinds of building trades and construction and architecture and all of those things that happen, it becomes more the norm, really, if you really think about this.

[0:42:23] Marisa Sheldon: Yeah. Another space that I feel like we've had a really special opportunity is talking to folks when they're younger about this. So we have been part of some different courses within two middle schools here in Central Ohio, in Upper Arlington, and the Metro Middle School in Columbus. And there's some research that shows middle schoolers are at a really great place to learn about the aging process because they themselves are going through such a physical life change with puberty. And so I'm talking to middle schoolers about ageism and what it means to age and positive aging. And careers in aging has been a really special experience to give that exposure even younger.

[0:43:00] Carol Ventresca: And they may still know their grandparents.

[0:43:03] Marisa Sheldon: Oh, yeah, I hope.

[0:43:04] Carol Ventresca: Well, being a little bit younger, their grandparents may still be grandparents, honestly. So when you're talking about the Scholars Program that you have, are those only undergraduate or graduate students?

[0:43:18] Marisa Sheldon: It's a mix of undergrads and grads. And then we also, outside of our Scholars Program, work with PhD students from the College of Social Work to strengthen our research. But, yeah, it's all levels and all disciplines that are welcome to apply.

[0:43:32] Carol Ventresca: I cannot believe that our time goes so quickly when we go through these questions. We sort of struggle putting our list of questions together, and then suddenly it's gone. Words of wisdom. We always give our guests an opportunity to let our audience hear. After all of this, what do you want to make sure people take away?

[0:43:51] Marisa Sheldon: Oh, gosh, there are so many things. But I would say one, if you feel like your voice isn't being heard, h Fontley wants to be that bullhorn, as Brett mentioned, sharing your ideas, sharing your concerns, sharing what's working. And then, in the wise words of our assistant director Christine Haple, they coined the phrase aging so cool. Everybody's doing it. And I have to always just plug that one, because it really is. And the way we look at aging for ourselves and for our community can really reframe a lot. And we truly are all aging. And it's a gift and it is something to be happy and treasured and just hope that we can change that perspective for a lot of folks.

[0:44:35] Carol Ventresca: Wonderful.

[0:44:36] Brett Johnson: You just named the podcast.

[0:44:39] Marisa Sheldon: We got to give Christine credit on that one. It's been used a lot.

[0:44:43] Carol Ventresca: Well, I was just thinking about all of the wonderful badges you guys used.

[0:44:46] Marisa Sheldon: To be our buttons we still do button up ages on.

[0:44:50] Carol Ventresca: I like that one too. I like that one.

[0:44:53] Brett Johnson: You can do it either way.

[0:44:55] Marisa Sheldon: Hashtag button up ages on Twitter. We've got lots of photos of our buttons out in the community. Actually, I think in this one I can show you some of those.

[0:45:04] Brett Johnson: That's cool.

[0:45:05] Marisa Sheldon: Here is one of those middle schoolers being cool.

[0:45:09] Carol Ventresca: I love it.

[0:45:12] Brett Johnson: Love it. Well, many thanks to Marisa Sheldon, director of age friendly Columbus Franklin County and the age friendly innovation center for joining us today. Listeners, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to check out our show notes for contact information and tons of resources that we've mentioned and we'll find out that some on our own and they'll be available at the website lookingforward our way. We are looking forward to hearing your feedback on this and any of our podcast episodes.