E095 - Why We Mistake Obsession for Love In The Narcissistic Cycle with Hilary Buckwalter-Wilde
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Is it obsession or love that you are feeling? In this episode, you are going to be able to tell the difference and understand why you may have mistake the two in the past.
Speaker: Welcome to Heartbreak to Wholeness, the podcast helping you heal from the mindfuck of narcissistic relationships and move towards the secure, peaceful woman you want to become. I am your host, Bre Wolta, Relationship Clarity Coach and EFT Certified Practitioner. Let's dive in.
Welcome back to Heartbreak to Wholeness. I gotta be honest, in the beginning of a relationship, that intoxicating feeling, the rush, the obsession, the sense that you finally found the one, I used to believe that that was love, and it really kept me stuck attracting unhealthy people, un emotionally unavailable people,
And just in unhealthy dynamics in general, because I couldn't tell the difference between being chosen and being loved. so when the guest today brought to me this idea to talk about the word [00:01:00] limerence and what limerence means, I had no idea what she was talking about,
but the more that I learned, the more that I realized this was something that I lived over and over again in my past relationships. So I knew that we had to bring this conversation here for you so get ready because in this episode you're going to learn how to tell the difference between healthy chemistry and toxic attraction.
Why Our early attachment moons can actually make us more vulnerable to mistake, obsession with love, and how to begin to tune into the body and pay attention so that you can recognize the difference. If you've ever found yourself swept up in a new relationship feeling like it is a drug, and you are on Cloud 99, only to realize later that it is totally destabilizing. This episode is gonna give you a whole new lens on Love.
The guest that we have today, her name is Hillary Buckwalter Wild. She is a fan favorite and has guested with me on this podcast like five or six times now. [00:02:00] She is incredible. she offers her expertise as a therapist, as a visionary, and as a survivor of a narcissistic relationship.
You are gonna love this conversation. I'm absolutely positive of it. And be sure you stick around to the very end of the episode where I will pull an Oracle card that will offer you a message that you can use this week to stay more anchored in your healing,
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: welcome back, Hillary.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Thanks, Bria. It's great to be here again.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: I am excited about this conversation. I'm excited about all of our conversations. Let's be real. We, you brought up this idea of limerence, and as we were talking back and forth, a, I had never heard that word before, and so I want you to dive into what that means, and B, I was like, this is something that. We need to be talking more about because it's that, that beginning stage of a relationship where you are really being chosen that we can mistake for love. so talk to us, tell us about what Limerence is. [00:03:00] How did this come into your, into your awareness?
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Yeah, I hadn't heard the word either until going through my own process of healing with narcissistic abuse. And it was a term that was coined by a psychologist in the 1970s, um, that refers to like that obsessive infatuation feeling that often. Corresponds with dating or the beginning of a relationship.
But the difference with like healthy chemistry when we're feeling that attraction, in normal circumstances is that RINs has a physiologically addictive quality and roots in attachment, wounding and cultural conditioning too, around what romantic love is. Um, what that's supposed to look like, especially as women.
So it's complex and dynamic, , but very [00:04:00] different than like healthy chemistry and normal attraction.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Yeah, walk us through. 'cause I think examples are so powerful to
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Mm-hmm.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: help the listener be like, that makes, you know, that makes sense to me. What, what would a Limerence beginning of a relationship look like and what would a chemistry, a healthy, normal chemistry of a relationship look like?
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Yeah, I think a liran situation could look like too much, too fast, and this is where it can intersect with, you know, predatory personalities and narcissistic relationships. Um. Like love bombing and being on the receiving end of that kind of attention can. Catalyze the feeling of limerence, where we start to feel obsessed with someone else.
The limerent object, as they say in clinical psychology, we begin to feel obsessed. We can't focus, we can't [00:05:00] think clearly. All we can think about is this person, and it becomes potentially detrimental to our health. Like we can't focus on anything else. It's total obsession. It feels. Feels really good.
It feels akin to maybe using some different substances, like a very big high feeling, which can correspond, you know, also to healthy attraction. Sometimes we feel that with healthy attraction, but healthy attraction is more stable. It's not as obsessive. It's more consistent. It's not as, um, wildly destabilizing.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Mm-hmm.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: that make sense?
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: It's not the, the floodgates of dopamine,
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Yes.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: That happened in the limerence or the love bombing relationships.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Yes.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: in healthy relationships, we can still feel that excitement. We can see them, their name pop up on our phone and be like, oh, I can't wait to text them. Or Maybe I'm gonna [00:06:00] postpone this email so that I can send them a, Hey, I'm thinking of you two. And that's different than not being able to like cognitively focus on your work because you are so consumed with sending the several messages, texting all day long. Is that sort of like the difference of how that would show up?
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Cycling thoughts, rumination.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Yeah.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: There's a very different response in the nervous system when we're experiencing limerence versus healthy, um, chemistry. And I will be the first to admit that in my recovery process from narcissistic abuse, like I'm not sure I know what healthy chemistry and attraction. Feel like, so it might be harder for me to come up with examples for that.
I look forward to finding out at some point.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Yeah.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: right now I'm almost two years sober from Limerence
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Mm-hmm.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: way I've been talking about it. Um, but I can retrospectively see that my [00:07:00] whole existence as a person, um, has involved Limerence. In one way, shape or another. I'm not sure I've ever had a dating relationship or a long-term relationship that didn't involve limerence at a high to a high degree.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Yeah. And what do you think makes us susceptible to Limerence? Are there people or, or people who have been through certain things that are more susceptible to these, the types of people who like use limerence or weaponize limerence in the beginning of a relationship.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Yeah, for sure. I mean, attachment wounding is at the root of a lot of it for people. I mean, we live in a culture that kind of prides itself on rugged individualism. Disconnection from self, other, the earth. Um, and so when we have that attach, that early attachment wounding, it doesn't go away. Like if we need something from a caregiver [00:08:00] or we're not being attuned to properly, or we're not being witnessed or seen or heard, you know, it all goes back to our parents.
Or early caregivers, right? And so if we don't have those needs met, they continue to manifest through us, expressed through our behavior. And Limerence is one way that happens where we then idealize the person, right, that we're projecting this limerence onto and expect them to fulfill this deep, deep need that really cannot be.
Filled by them. So that can make us susceptible. Like if we don't know that about ourselves, if we don't know, we have early childhood wounding around secure attachment. Um, also culture, social conditioning, romantic comedies, romance novels. Um, I was just listening to NPR the other day and they were talking about romance novels and I had no idea that they're like sold in the billions and they're like, so.
Wildly popular. [00:09:00] And so that ped my curiosity, especially thinking about limerence. Um, but love songs the way love is portrayed in the media as this fast, obsessive. Um, chaotic thing that sweeps you off your feet. And so when we see that normalized, when we start feeling those feelings of limerence in our nervous system and physiology, the obsession, I can't think about anything else.
We think that's normal.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Yeah.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: think that's what love is.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: It's satisfying, the deepest desire of, of that we have from that original attachment wound, right?
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Yes.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: if you come from a childhood where you didn't really feel lovable, that love, that love was transactional, that you had to be a certain way in order to feel love. If somebody is showing you this, this.
Overwhelming Overp pouring of love. It's like, oh my God, I need to keep running towards that person because they [00:10:00] are fulfilling like this insatiable thing inside of me. Right? It feels like you just can't stop drinking from the hose, like you're so thirsty. And so like the part of the addictive nature to these relationships in, in part is that like, I need this from you. I'm not okay without. This, which is why I keep running towards it, what you're giving me versus the dynamic of a healthy relationship of it's wonderful to feel loved, but I don't need you to validate that I am lovable.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Right.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: And so the the stakes are lower. Even though you can be just as excited to get the text message, you can be just as, you know, get like the giddy feelings, getting excited to see them. Like it can still feel exciting. It just isn't that same life or death like
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Mm-hmm.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: level of excitement, I guess. Is that a good way to describe it?
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Yeah, that's perfect. And I love that you used the word [00:11:00] insatiable.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Mm-hmm.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Because I've found through my own experience that those deep early wounds are insatiable in their expression and need to be filled. And we're often looking outside of ourselves
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Yeah.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: in order to try to meet those needs, and in this case, sometimes to our detriment.
And it's in that rush, in that dopamine fueled urgency that we also tend to overlook the red flags.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Yeah.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Because we're getting the thing and we want more of it, so we kind of push any concerning things to the side.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: I think that that like sums up that feeling so perfectly, the dopamine filled urgency. like everything feels urgent with I need to respond to them. I need to see them, I need to go on this vacation with them. I need, and often it's being met with like. Have not forced timelines, but um, quicker
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Mm-hmm.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: of this stuff happening. so we can [00:12:00] get caught up in these relationships, get sucked into these relationships because of that, that urgent need that we have from the other person. let's talk about like, why, how then we confuse that with love, how we assume that the urgency and we think that they're satisfying that need for us.
It feels like there's surface level satisfying that need, how we interpret that as love and what, where we're going wrong with,
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Mm-hmm. I mean, I think just fundamentally as a society, we're kind of taught not to listen to our bodies.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Mm-hmm.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: And there isn't really much education on our nervous system. Um, the felt sense sensations and feelings and thought patterns, habits, like how we express ourselves. We're all just kind of out in the world doing our best in this organism without much education.
And so mostly what we. [00:13:00] See about love is modeled, so whether that's in our family of origin or it's in media or society, we're not also given classes on like, here's what healthy love is. Here's what a healthy relationship feels like in your body. Here's how to listen and interpret the signals in here.
And so we're doing the best with what we know and what we have access to, which really isn't. Isn't much. I mean, it's changing now, right? Like there's personal development work and um, therapies being normalized and there are ways to access education about our bodies and love and relationships if you're willing to seek it out and if you wanna learn.
But like by and large, it's still this vastly unknown terrain. So I think it's really easy to confuse what we're feeling as love.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Mm-hmm.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Do we really know? What do many of us really know what love is? I don't know. Does that make [00:14:00] sense?
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: totally. And that's, that's it. It's, if we don't know what we're looking for, then we're only gonna be drawn to what feels familiar.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Mm-hmm.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Or what, or to your point about society and the messaging, like what we're told it should feel like, and, and if we don't have the accurate information, then we are, we're like measuring this relationship up against the wrong standards and we're gonna get the wrong answer. It's like you're trying to ask yourself if
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Yeah.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: but you are comparing it to the love movie, like all of the, the love bombing in the movies. It's like, well, this is the way that love is. And we don't know different until we know different. And so fall for, for this feeling of being chosen or mistaking the feeling of being chosen, being desired for being loved, which gets us into these relationships that are not built on respect.
They're not built on interdependence or on connection. [00:15:00] They're built on this, this exchange.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Right.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Talk a little bit about what, what does that process look like after we are connected through the limerence like energy.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: And I think that's the tricky part, right? Because this is the piece where it can be dangerous and make us vulnerable to predatory. Relationships or narcissistic relationships because when someone shows up and is everything you've ever wanted, , they can hone in on vulnerabilities and
maybe what our core wounds are and be very perceptive and know what to say as a way to kind of ensnare us, which is where the love bombing and the idealization comes in, in the, in the abuse cycle and that idealization, devalued, discard. Cycle, like once we're in it and we're getting that need met, or at least that's our perception, it makes it really hard to see and understand or experience in what's [00:16:00] happening, especially if the connection is actually about domination and control and not connection and interdependence because we're being shown one thing or told one thing when maybe there's actually an under undercurrent of harm.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Mm-hmm.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: happening and that's like getting caught in a sticky web where I know I so wanted to believe that what I was experiencing was real, and it was so confusing for me to try to square what I was hearing with what I was experiencing through their actions. And that I stayed stuck in that cycle, up and down, up and down, up and down.
And then in the low points, wanting so desperately to get back to the high that I would do anything to have that liran drug again, you know, including staying in the cycle, even when I was being harmed.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Right,
So what are like a few [00:17:00] things that the listener can look out for to, if they're wondering if they are in that type of relationship? If they have come into it from that unhealthy perspective, or if they're in more of a healthy dynamic.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: I think one thing to think about is one's relationship to their body, and how does your nervous system feel? When you think about this person, when you're in their presence, I know for me I was in a constant level of activation. Urgency all the time for years without even realizing that that's what was happening, like tethered to my phone.
Um, obsessive thoughts, rumination. So any of those markers are a potential sign that maybe limerence is happening. If it feels like a drug. Like a lot of people actually say, this person feels like a drug. Or if you're experiencing drug-like symptoms or even withdrawal symptoms When you consider your [00:18:00] own physiology and like what's happening, can you get to know your body and your mind well enough so that you can kind of cue into like, what's happening here for me? What's, what do these sensations and feelings mean? What do they indicate? Um, something that's worked really well for me.
Is a teacher of mine said to me in my healing process, I, I suggest you take four seasons to yourself.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Hmm.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: And when she told me that, I thought I was going to die. So like that feeling of like, okay, this relationship has ended, but now someone is suggesting I be single for four seasons with myself. That feeling like death, that's a sign.
It was lime. Um, it Now on the heels of that, like I'm almost eight seasons with myself. Like I can definitely tell the difference between [00:19:00] limerence and non
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Mm-hmm.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: so. Really listening and attuning to yourself and your own body. Getting to know yourself really well, understanding sensations and feelings, habits, patterns, cycling thoughts, and really starting to use your discernment around does it feel urgent?
Does it feel obsessive?
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Yeah. I love that. I love, I love the urgency because even, even when the love bombing starts to turn from, like all of the, the amazing things that they're throwing at you, be it the text messages or the trips or the gifts or whatever the, the actual love bombing looks like, still is that underlying piece of urgency. And it keeps you, it keeps you on edge, right? You're, you're living in this sort of unstable one foot off the ground, never knowing what you're gonna like step on, be it something amazing, or be it something [00:20:00] that's gonna cause a fight in the relationship. So there is that urgency to like. Answer or to make sure it's okay or define the solution or like you're just living in kind of this like very sped up reality. I think that that's a good marker for the listener to be like, how fast do I actually feel like I'm. Moving like what is my baseline speed here? Am I really comfortable going 85 and like a normal speed limit is 40? That's, that's kind of a good, a good marker for that because again, in, in being able to share experience from a healthy relationship, now it's, not, not urgent in the way that I have to do this or I won't be okay. It's. I want to do this because this brings me joy, but it's not on the same, it's not at the same speed. It's like I'm comfortable with my now husband, like going [00:21:00] 45 and we speed up here and there. We slow down here and there. It varies. I guess. It's not always like throttle, which is very much what the unhealthy relationship in my past felt like.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: . Yeah, and that's the tricky part. When we're in a liran situation with. A predatory or a narcissistic person is that they can use that limerence as leverage, right? Like in that cycle of giving and taking it away, leaving the person feeling like totally out of control and like they're going to die.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Yeah, we had mentioned earlier about like the attachment wound, that's often the, the underlying driver for us to, to feel the sort of like connection with the person. And the metaphor that I thought of was like, we think about the, the predatory people as literal sharks, right? These predators in the water. If [00:22:00] we are trying to swim, but we're still bleeding, the, the blood is attracting those types of predators to us.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Right.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: in doing the healing work and stepping back to really understand that original wound. The original place that I'm bleeding from. It's like if I can heal that, then I'm not attracting those predators in the same way. not to say that they won't come around anymore, but it's to say that we're not, we're not, um, and I would be careful here because I don't mean it to say that we are bringing this upon ourselves so that we are somehow causing our trauma. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is our wounding is.
It is something that people can, can sense,
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Yeah.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: We have a certain energy about us when we are more susceptible to outside validation. And so for us as the the victims in the situation to work on that internal validation, to work on creating that sense of [00:23:00] self-respect, that sense of self love, that sense of a self or a secure attachment with ourselves first and foremost, then we are setting ourselves up. Greater to be able to see the shark coming.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Absolutely. Yeah. I love that analogy, and I love that you said secure attachment with ourselves.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Mm-hmm.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Yeah. That's a lot of the work is getting to know ourselves really well in developing that security and safety here
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Yeah.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: so that we are less susceptible.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Yeah, in healthy relationships we, it is normal to want to connect, to want to give love, and I tell my husband, I'm like, I love you, but I don't need you. Right. This is a different, this is a different way of being in a relationship where I'm okay with or without you. And if, if this is to end, like of course that would be painful and horrific and like there would be heartbreak and all the things, but like, [00:24:00] need you in order to, to be okay or in order to validate who I am as a person or to validate that I'm lovable, like I give that to myself first.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Mm-hmm.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: are the. Sprinkles on top of the cake,
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Yeah.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: an important part of my experience in my life. And I love, love, love, love you. And it's a different type of, um, entering into a relationship from that secure, more secure place. Of course there's periods of, of ebb and flow with that. but it's a different, it's not transactional.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Yeah, absolutely. That's so beautiful.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Anything else that, any other tips or wisdom around? Maybe identifying this or just how to get out of it. If you're in something like that, what would you, what would you wanna leave the listener with?
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: I think it can be really tricky, like if you're in it to extricate oneself. Um.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Mm-hmm.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: I don't know if you see this with folks that you work with, but I can tell by sitting with someone or [00:25:00] looking at someone if they are in this physiological state. . Just like a look in the eyes. Um, so find. The helpers, like if you suspect this is something that is a pattern for you or that you are actively in, like find the helpers and educate yourself on your nervous system and attachment wounding and attachment healing.
And start to just find ways to educate yourself and get to know yourself better so that you can, staunch the bleeding.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Yes. Yes. Where shall people go to find more information about you and what you offer?
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: And you can find me on Instagram at Indwelling Duluth, and also at Hillary Buckwalter Wild. And then I also have a website, indwelling duluth.com.
bre_1_08-18-2025_150342: Amazing. you so much for your, your expertise [00:26:00] and your time, Hillary. I so appreciate you having on the podcast. Always.
hilary-buckwalter-wilde_1_08-18-2025_160328: Oh, thank you so much, Brie
That is a wrap for today, folks. And before we go, I want to do a quick recap and I also wanna pull the Oracle card. So just to remind you, all of the juice that we talked about with Hillary, you now better understand what the differences between healthy attraction and toxic chemistry. You understand why our early attachment wounds, if left unhealed, can really set us up to confuse obsession with love and be attracted to people that we can put RIN onto. And you have a better understanding of what to tune into in your body to help you recognize the difference between healthy love and toxic attraction. So now let's pull your Oracle card, just tuning into the deck and asking what the message is that wants to come through for you today.
That message is elixir. An elixir says, elixir is here because it is [00:27:00] time. The medicine is within you. It flows through you like blood. The healing energy of self-love and goodness are here for you now as they have always been. Open yourself up to embrace your woundedness. Elixir is the source of your power. Clean the dirt from your wound, gently apply the solve you need, whether it be music, connecting with others, rest, or screaming at the sunset. Quit Picking the scab. Allow the natural process of healing to occur with the power of your intention. Practice and care are required now. Move through the pain and you will wear your scars with honor and reverence for your whole of life's experiences that you have lived. Use your medicine, you healing, you will heal.
What a beautiful reminder as we are sometimes deep within our process, right? We're in the middle of this. Super long, dark tunnel. We can't see the light. We know we have to keep moving forward even though it's dark and scary and hurts and we don't know where we're going. You will get there. You will heal.
[00:28:00] Please, please, please keep going. And a tool that I want you to have goes along really nicely with this concept of limerence. It is my three ways to recognize love bombing guide. Love bombing is often the beginning of these narcissistic relationships, and so this guide is gonna help you really understand what to look for.
So you have some specific red flags to watch out for that you can be curious around and that you can walk away from sooner. Go to the show notes. There is a link there to download that free guide. You'll also find all of Hillary's information in the show notes as well. And until I see you in the next episode, please, please, please remember that you are not alone in your healing.
I'll see you then.