The Hoop Heads podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball Going Back to Coach so Walter, in order to be different you have to do things differently.

I would also share from my finance days.

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Jordan Klein is in his first season as a women's basketball assistant coach at the University of Arkansas, Fort Smith.

Klein previously served as a men's basketball assistant coach at Cornell College in Iowa under head coach Dave Slobaugh.

Klein began his coaching career at the high school level while still working as a CFO in the business world.

Jordan has also worked as a camp clinician at Snow Valley Basketball School and USA Basketball Gold Camps.

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Hi everyone, this is Liz K.

Head, Girls Basketball Coach at Wakona High School in Dalton, Massachusetts and you're listening to the Hoop Heads Podcast.

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Grab your notebook before you listen to this episode with Jordan Klein, Women's Basketball Assistant Coach at the University of Arkansas, Fort Smith.

Hello and welcome to the Whop Heads Podcast.

That's Mike Klinsling here with my co host Jason Sunkel tonight and we are pleased to be joined by Jordan Klein, Women's Basketball Assistant Coach at the University of Arkansas, Fort Smith.

Jordan, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.

Hello Mike, thank you for having me.

Thrilled to have you looking forward to diving into all of the interesting things and twists and turns that you have had in your career in coaching and otherwise.

Let's start by going back in time though to when you were a kid.

Tell me about some of your first experiences with the game of basketball.

What you remember, what made you fall in love with it.

I fell in love with basketball really when I was in fifth grade.

My mom started putting me in some YMCA basketball way back and I remember watching.

I was born in the early 90s so I remember watching some of the later years of MJ play and I fell in love with it from there.

That might be a typical poop head story, but watching him play, see how he competed and I just loved how beautiful the game was.

I thought it was fun get to be around other people and run around like burn some energy as a little kid.

So that was always fun.

Absolutely, there's no question about that.

Did you play other sports as well?

Yeah, I played basketball, football and baseball.

I went to a smaller high school so I was fortunate to be to play all three.

What's it like growing up at that time and just playing multiple sports?

How do you go about getting better as a basketball player?

What's the, what's the basketball scene look like for you?

I had, I was fortunate in seventh grade so I'm sure at some point I'll share a little bit that I moved around quite a bit as a kid and growing up.

But in seventh grade I was.

My mom put me in a private school from kindergarten to eighth grade.

There were 95 kids in the entire school and one of the kids ended up being one of my best friends.

His name's Nate Zastro.

He was ended up being the all time leading scorer and all time leader in assists in his Division 1 high school.

We ended up going to separate high schools and then he had a full ride to North Dakota State and played there for four years.

So that was a great.

That was eye opening for me.

Just his work ethic and spending time around his family and what it took to be successful in the game.

Yeah, when you have somebody like that, that really I think that you can look up to and then be around and just inspire you to even be, you know, take, take the game even more seriously.

I think that's always an advantage.

Yeah, I never like you talk about, you can like you like something, you love something or you live it.

And I, he definitely taught me how to live it.

There was never a moment in my life where I thought waking up at 4am to go lift or run on a football field in northern Wisconsin with dew on the field was normal, but he taught me that that's what it takes.

So it was.

It was a great friendship to build and definitely helped me out.

Absolutely.

As you are growing up and experiencing that from a playing standpoint, what.

What are you thinking about at that time?

Because obviously we're going to get to some of the twists and turns and different things that you've done in your career, but.

But what are you kind of thinking about when it comes to what you might have wanted to do?

Did you see yourself at.

As a high school.

As a high school kid ever being interested in coaching?

Was that something that was even remotely in the back of your mind, or was it not even on the radar at all?

It was not.

It wasn't on the radar for me because I was so focused on playing.

Yeah.

As a younger.

As a younger kid, I was just more focused.

I was more focused on me.

And I didn't learn.

I just didn't have the awareness of how engaging and how much purpose and how rewarding it can be to coach.

I didn't know that aspect of the game.

I thought it was, let me teach you how to run a ball screen.

And had nothing to do with those life skills.

Like, I just wasn't aware of that at the time.

So that developed over time.

I.

I did in high school.

I would.

I would coach our grade school, middle school, summer league stuff, and I enjoyed it and I thought it was fun from a competitive standpoint, but it wasn't really on my.

On my list.

My.

My parents were both business owners, and they talked to me a lot about money growing up.

And so that was my focus on what.

Like, that was my version of what success looked like, was having money.

Right.

Or making a lot of money.

And that's pivoted and really grown.

That's really changed, actually, as I've grown up and matured.

So that's where coaching really fits in with just my purpose.

Every day, waking up and just who I want to be as a person.

What's your favorite memory?

And that makes total sense to me.

I mean, I think, again, it's interesting how much we're influenced by our parents, the people that are around us, and sort of what is important to them becomes what's important to us because that's what we're exposed to all the time.

I often say, like, my kids, we played every sport, but my kids got a lot more exposure to basketball because that's the sport that I liked, and that's the one that I wanted to be around all the time.

So even though they got an opportunity to be involved in lots of sports, at least two out of the three of them eventually ended up gravitating to basketball.

And just again, thinking about your experience with your parents and as business owners and people who again, were focused on growing that side of it, you can totally see where that's sort of the direction that it steers you.

What was your favorite memory of playing high school basketball?

Do you have one memory that sticks out for you?

You're doing a good job right now.

Making me feel old.

I'll tell you, man.

Come on, you're a young guy, man.

I'm 54.

Jordan, come on, man.

You're making me feel old, man.

Sure.

No, I'm going to take it a little different direction.

It's a memory and it's fun.

Now when I go back to my hometown.

At the time, it was a challenging situation, but we were playing my sophomore year, we were playing the number one team in state and they happened to be in the same city as us.

So it was a big game.

And we were down by two with eight seconds left.

I'll never forget it.

And I was a starting shooting guard, but I was the third option on offense.

We had a senior point guard that was first team all conference and a junior guard that was second team all conference.

So we had an inbounds play, got the ball in, I sprinted to the corner and between the two other guards, they had four defenders on them and I was wide open.

So senior guard makes the right play.

He passes me the ball in the corner with two seconds left.

There's thousands of people in the gym in this smaller town.

And I shoot the ball off the pad off the side of the backboard and we lose by two.

And there were extra bleachers on the baseline.

It was, it was the.

Even between now and college, it was the most packed, loud gym I've ever been in, in my life.

Outside of, of course, NBA games.

But now I go back, even now, 15 years later, I go back home and they're like, hey, Klein, watch this.

And this little, this little 12 year old that, I'm not sure, I mean that his parents, I mean, his, his siblings have to tell him about it.

They're like, jordan, watch this.

And they'll shoot it off the side of the backboard.

Like, come on, man.

So, so, so the pandemic P did that in the bubble.

Did that trigger flashbacks when he threw it off the backboard in 2020.

100%.

I don't think about that.

Okay, brings up, brings up some PTSD for me then.

So that was in high school.

In College, I played two years at a junior college.

We were 48 and 4 over my two years there.

And so I don't really have one specific memory from that.

But being around a culture, just a competitive culture, they say, I mean, everyone says winning fixes a lot of things, but it was amazing while we were winning how close we got as a team.

Like, I still talked to my coach 1412 years later.

So some of those relationships you can build in a short period of time.

That's the most memorable stuff for me.

What was the recruiting process like for you?

It was, I'll be honest, it was minimal.

I'm a six foot.

I was a good shooter.

The scouting report on me was get a hand up and he, you can attack him on defense.

So the recruiting process was.

I just, I went to a private high school and I knew that I wanted to keep playing.

So I had a couple of junior college offers and those schools ended up actually being just less expensive than my high school.

So my parents were supportive of that and I could stay within a couple hours of home.

So I chose to stay closer to home.

I had an.

I had an offer from York in Pennsylvania, but it was just too far away from home.

Yeah, understood.

Completely got.

Completely understand that.

So what are you thinking about career wise as a college student?

What are you studying?

What are you thinking about?

And what do you end up doing at first after graduation?

Because I think this is kind of where your story takes some, takes some interesting turns.

Yep.

My.

Ended up meeting my eventual wife when we were both at Wisconsin, Milwaukee.

I was studying finance and I got a job my sophomore year of college.

Just needed some extra money, so I started selling phones at US Cellular.

And in my eyes at the time, I was making good money and that, that steered my focus away from school.

And so I ended up getting into the workforce.

Took an opportunity to.

I did that for a little while.

It was just for.

Just for some extra sales money.

I was a finance director at a Lexus dealership in the suburbs of Milwaukee also.

It was just, just kind of fell into that.

It was good money.

I didn't love what I was doing every day, but I made some really good connections from my time at US Cellular.

I had a friend that left.

He left the industry.

He started a media company, real estate media.

So they did, you know your drone photos listing photos 3D walkthrough videos, et cetera.

And the company outgrew him.

He was, he just needed help with his finances.

And again, I had background from studying finance and both my parents with business.

And so right out of the gate, he offered me a position to be a cfo.

Help him with.

Help him with taxes and reorg and get the company from red to green.

And so I did that for two years.

Was successful.

I was just wearing, I was, I was just working, working a lot.

Didn't have a ton of purpose.

I found myself not having a lot of purpose.

At the end of the day, it was fun being around a team, but it, I just didn't go to bed saying, yeah, I accomplished X today and I feel really good about it and I'm pumped to do it the next day.

And that's, no, that's not saying anything bad about the industry, the company, the people that were there.

Yeah, it was just me in my stomach.

I just had a little pit that said, you know, I think I played basketball.

I.

I started coaching high school part time on the side.

While I was doing that, I fell in love with it.

I didn't realize how much I would love it.

And my wife and I, you know, if you.

I'd love for you to ask about my wife.

I'd love to touch on that for a second.

But if you.

We just talked about the support system and being able to create a plan and figure out solutions and ways to actually put plans in action instead of talk about it.

Made a plan to coach college.

So I was a CFO for two years and then put a plan together to pursue coaching college basketball.

All right, well, let's talk about your wife and give her a little credit, because as anyone who is coaching and has a spouse knows that if you're going to pursue a coaching career, and I don't care at what level, and especially for someone like you who's making a career change, who is making good money as someone who's working in the business world to say to yourself, I'm going to start trying to pursue the idea of becoming a college coach.

I can't even count the number of podcasts that we've talked to or the number of guests that we've talked to on the pod about, hey, I'm starting my career and I'm making $0 or I'm making $2,000 for this entire year.

And so you're not making the change to go in and have it be a lucrative financial decision.

And obviously, if you are with a partner at that point, There, there's a, there's a sales pitch that has to be made in order for that to be a palatable decision.

So talk a little bit about your guys planning what those conversations were like and then tell me about the plan that you put together.

Sure.

We were.

So when I was, when I was working at Lexus and then eventually onto being the cfo, the media company, my wife was working just, she was out of college and she was working a front desk job as a manager and she just wasn't happy on a day to day basis.

So I had the money coming in to be able to support her to leave that job.

And she pursued opening a social media and marketing company and it took her 12 months to get her first client.

So there were ebbs and flows in that, but it was an opportunity for me to be able to support her, to be able to do something that she loves and she was passionate about and give her the flexibility to work from home.

And then after about three years, she was, she was doing that full time and she was bringing in enough money to pay our bills.

We weren't, you know, we weren't maxing out our 401k, but our bills were paid and if, if we needed to live on one income.

And we started talking about trying to have a kid after being married for two years and we said to each other, if we're going to pursue a family, I can't be working 60 hours a week at that time and being outside of the house.

So I gave her essentially the opportunity to pursue her, her passion for a few years.

She has it up and running, she still does it full time.

And now that plan was she's willing to move around the country with me and support me while I pursue this career path.

So there's been some, and we've been married for five years and there's been some pretty big ebbs and flows, but it's, it's just about the foundation that you have together.

And I'm sure coaches say this all the time, that they couldn't do what they do without their wives, but I would be, I'd be living in a studio apartment right now if it wasn't for my wife.

So.

All right, so in the plan, from working a quote unquote regular job to the first step of becoming a college coach, what's step one?

What do you guys do first?

What's the first move?

From my finance background I had, I pulled out a spreadsheet.

My parents have, they live in, my dad has a house in Iowa.

My mom has a house in the Denver area in Phoenix, and then she ended up recently just buying a house in Iowa.

So I made a spreadsheet of 50 colleges that were near those three areas and then filtering them down by head coach tenure, just so I didn't go with my first.

It's.

It's.

We have some real estate, we have some investment properties, and the first one that you buy is very important.

After that, they're still important, but the first one is crucial to your success.

It can really hinder you.

So I had that same mindset going into coaching.

So step one was creating a spreadsheet.

And then I just cold emailed.

I didn't have a lot of great relationships, and I.

Great.

I just didn't have a lot of relationships with college coaches.

So I sent a lot of cold emails and.

But was very targeted in who I reached out to and who I would truly be willing to relocate for with my family, and was fortunate to get an email back from Coach Dave Slaughball at Cornell College.

And then that led to a world of networking that I could not have imagined.

Absolutely.

I mean, Coach Law and the connections that he has, and we're going to dive into the whole Snow Valley piece of this and everybody that's connected with that, and Jason and I have been fortunate enough through the podcast and our relationships and get an opportunity to go out to Iowa.

Jason's been out there once, and I've been out there.

I think three.

I've been out there three times, and just again, great opportunity to be able to go out and to network and to be a part of it.

So.

So tell us a little bit about your relationship with Coach Slobaugh, just what that's meant to you and how it kind of led to.

Led to these opportunities that you were.

That you were able to earn at the college level.

Sure.

So when I was looking at colleges in the area, I pulled up Cornell.

They have a new $23 million renovation that they did.

It was beautiful, just looking at the pictures.

And I'm.

I was a high school coach, so this was.

It just looked incredible.

And it was really just a reach.

I just sent an email to say, hey, you know what?

It can't hurt to send this.

And he emailed me back within 30 minutes and said he'd be interested.

And we set up a time for me to come down and visit my dad, who lives about 25 minutes away from campus.

And I just told him I'd drive down, make a long weekend out of it.

We Had I met.

I was scheduled to meet with him for.

This is something people.

This.

This is a big takeaway for me was I was scheduled to meet with him for one hour and I ended up being there for three.

And he said at the end of it, he said, I think it's important for our wives to meet each other.

Let's get dinner tomorrow.

And we did that and just hit it off from there.

And I, after talking to him, did not.

I told everyone else that said they were interested that I had found my place.

The amount of time and how genuine he is and authentic and just.

There's a public speaker named Jordan Montgomery, and he says that love is spelled T I M E.

And I was blown away by how much time Coach was willing to spend with someone that would come in and just be a.

Not just, but to be a stipend assistant for his first college opportunity.

Tell me what that first experience was like.

What do you remember about just the difference between the experiences that you had had to that point with coaching in high school versus coaching in college?

Just what were some of your first impressions?

What.

What did you really enjoy and love about the college experience?

I.

So for me, I really enjoyed the challenge of recruiting because I had a sales background, sales and finance background.

I really.

I enjoyed being able to put together the puzzle of what does this class size look like?

What do we need next year?

Especially at the Division 3 level, where you don't deal as much with the transfer portal, you can put the puzzle pieces together on what you need.

And then in addition to that, It's a top 100 academic college in the country, and it's not inexpensive to go to school there.

So I appreciate the challenge of finding the right fit, meeting with parents, and putting that process together.

So recruiting was.

Was big for me.

And then in addition to that, what I loved about college was that you recruit the type of players that you're looking for, which we all know.

But it.

It helps a lot with.

You give yourself chess pieces now instead of checkers.

And then instead of so much dealing with how you play the game, it's a lot more of what can we do with the assets that we have or with the people that are around us?

So that was.

I just love the challenge of.

Let me put it this way, when you're in high school, a lot of it has been in the past.

There's a lot of systems and you have a youth program and they run the same thing from sixth grade up.

And that just doesn't fly in college with Scouting and etc.

So I love the challenge of having to be an expert and, you know, multiple offenses, culture, coverages, etc, and then figuring out what's worked best for the personnel that you have.

Tell me a little bit about recruiting and what you like about that process.

What's a challenge when it comes to that process?

Obviously at the Division 3 level, you have a certain academic profile of player that you have to be able to recruit depending.

Depending upon what your school is.

But just tell me about building relationships with recruits, how you go about doing that and then just again, how you kind of take them from the beginning.

Introductory stage of, hey, we're just trying to identify whether or not a kid can play and academically be a good fit for our institution to, okay, this kid's actually going to walk on campus and become a part of our program.

Take me through those steps.

We emphasized, we emphasize character just as highly, if not more than your talent.

If we're going to spend 40 hours a week together.

I want to make sure I like you and I want to make sure you like me and you're a good fit for the culture.

And that's a trigger word, but that's such a cliche thing to say.

But that came from my background and in business, if I don't, I think there's someone out there that can type numbers into a spreadsheet and balance things for me.

But if I don't like you and don't want to see you walk through the door every day, it's hard to.

It's hard to go after you and put my best foot forward when I'm recruiting you.

So.

Right, right.

We look at character a lot.

But that process at Cornell, 70% of the students are from out of state, international.

So we spent a lot of time through, I mean, different software we used.

I actually, I use Twitter a lot.

Every, Every kid needs to have X.

But we would meet, we would.

We never sent an offer or we never offered a kid unless we met with his parents first and we had to gauge.

I mean, finances are important, but I'm, again, I'm.

I'm gauging character and eye contact respectfulness.

It's just in this, you know, in the age that we are in, that's so important to us.

And I mean, you know, high character education is important.

And then we'd get them on campus, meet with the family, take them out to eat and just decide if it was a good fit.

I mean, you can feel it in your gut whether this is a good person in front of You.

But I think to pivot a little bit, I think it's so important as coaches to be authentic, genuine, be yourself.

People can smell BS from a mile away and there's just no time for it.

Again, very similar to my business background.

Your competition is right down the street and there's no time for fluff.

The.

We're the best university.

We're the best university.

It just doesn't work.

It's like the push and promote things don't work.

You have to be able to share with them how you're, how you're different as a person.

Because school to school for the majority, you got, you have class Monday, Wednesday, Friday, you have different classes Tuesday, Thursday, you'll get your degree.

And in a way we go.

But I think who you are and being trustworthy, respectful, showing someone that you care for, who they are authentically people, I mean, I just, it's, it's massive in building trust.

So thanks for listening to my belabored, long winded response, but I think that's so important.

No, I think you're 100% right.

I mean, I think that any relationship that you have, once a kid is in the program, it all starts on the recruiting trail.

Right?

You're trying to build that relationship with, first of all, the player, but, you know, getting to know their family because it's a package deal.

And you're trying to figure out again, what, what kind of a person is this beyond what kind of a basketball player are they?

Because as you said early on, one of the things that's nice about college basketball is you get to be the gatekeeper of who comes into your program and who doesn't.

Obviously, when you're coaching at the high school level, you don't have nearly as much control over what that looks like.

And you, you're limited to who walks through the doors of your school.

And those are the kids that you got to figure out and try to coach.

And when you're coaching at the college level, you have some ability to control and figure out who's going to be a part of your program.

And so you're trying to make good decisions when it comes to who you bring in and who you want to be around and who you want to work with.

Right.

I mean, it's a long time, four years and four seasons of working with a kid and being around them and pouring into them and building that relationship with them.

And you just want that to be a situation where it's a good fit for everybody all around.

Tell me about the experiences that you had working with Coach Slaw just on the court.

What are some things that you learned from him?

From.

Let's start with just a basketball perspective, and then we can maybe dive into kind of what he.

What he taught you more specifically about the coaching profession in general.

He was, if something's not working, he is willing to pivot immediately the next day and fix it.

He is not willing to beat his head against the wall with something that's not working or that the team is not picking up on.

So within the first, we had.

We had some injuries early last year.

And so within the first.

I want to say within the first eight games, we had tweaked our offense about three times.

And not just simple actions.

It was just different.

It was different philosophies.

And that was.

That was the first time I'd ever seen that.

A willingness to change and be humble enough to.

And aware that you need to change.

And it's.

It's good to grow in that way.

Like, humility allows you to be teachable, and it allows you to continue learning.

And he.

There was no ego about that.

It was not.

My system fits, and I'm going to put, you know, fit the.

Fit the squares into the circle situation.

So that was a big take.

That was a big takeaway as far as on court.

Some things specifically that I learned from him was very personnel based and putting players in the right position to be successful based on their strengths.

I used to coach players and you think you know how to do that, and then you see it done at a higher level and you realize that there's always things to learn.

And so just some of his actions, things that we ran on the floor to get kids open, were so simple, but they were effective.

So there's some things I could share, I'm sure, but those were.

That was.

Those.

Those two things were big for me.

All right, let's dive into what the Snow Valley piece of this has meant to you.

Just go through some of the people that have had an impact on you and just, again, what that experience.

And clearly anybody who has been affiliated with Snow Valley in any way knows just what an incredible network of people have been connected to Snow Valley.

But just tell us a little bit about your experiences and maybe highlight a couple of the individuals that you feel have been especially impactful.

Absolutely.

I'm happy to do it.

So I recognize Coach Showalter's name in Coach Slava's bio.

So I didn't know much about Cornell College, and I didn't recognize the name Dave Slobaugh.

But I, I knew who, at least on paper, from his track record, I knew who.

So Walter is right.

So that was a, that was a big thing for me is why I reached out to coach Slava.

And so, I mean, it all starts with him.

And he says, he says in order to be different, sometimes you have to do things a little bit differently.

And so I took, I took that to heart when I started going to Snow Valley.

And he teaches you.

He talks a lot about having no ego.

We're all here to teach.

You have to be a teacher of the game.

Whether you're, whether he's with his junior national team and coaching Jason Tatum or Scotty Barnes or he's in a gym, in a cornfield in Iowa talking to sixth graders.

He is the same person.

So consistent, he's genuine and he knows he's very, very smart when it comes to.

It's.

It's an appropriate time to push you a little bit, get on you.

And then when it's time to pull back and you need a different type of motivation.

So I took a lot away, took a lot of that away from him.

At the same time, the, something I have learned and seen is that you are.

Everyone is.

Everyone's treated like you hear this.

Probably everyone's treated fairly but not equal.

Like you are still anticipated to come in and work.

So the first, first when I did Soul Valley Last year in 23, we talked a little bit and then he saw my work ethic.

He saw some things that I was doing with Cornell, picking people up from the airport at 1 o'clock in the morning, et cetera.

And then with that comes some, some respect level where he sees who you are, that you might be a little bit different or willing to go the extra mile.

And then opportunities come from that.

I was able to work USA Gold Camps.

He offered to be a reference on my resume.

It's just you don't know.

You just don't know the possibilities until you put your best foot forward.

So he's been unbelievable.

I was just texting him earlier today.

He's a great guy.

From that I will name a couple other people would be Dave Severns, formerly player development coach of the LA Clippers.

I took his player development course which I would recommend to anybody.

It's great.

And so he took us through a six week course on player development.

Learned a lot from him.

But again, that comes from the network at Snow Valley.

And then, I mean, I'll just share that.

It just keeps leading into will twig is the reason why I'm on this podcast.

Great friend of mine, the academy coach for the London Lions.

And that friendship means everything.

His wife's amazing.

Him and his wife are.

Or his, her name's Rose.

Rose and my wife are best friends.

We've been to their house in London, they've been to our house in Iowa.

So you're creating lifelong friendships.

Again, as cliche as that might sound, it's genuine.

And you never know where those relationships or people in their career are going to go.

Snow Valley is just a special place.

Last I'll mention that Bayoudo, former NBA player, he was at Snow Valley.

Quinn Snyder actually sent him there, which is unbelievable when you think about it.

Former NBA player being sent to a cornfield in Iowa to come work a youth camp.

But yeah, he, he was able to get me into a Atlanta Hawks practice.

You talk to me after practice for 45 minutes.

Like, the people that come to Snow Valley are just so genuine and want to help.

And it's not a passive, hey, let me know if I can ever help you in the future.

Like, these people respond.

They're there for you.

They're good people because they are absolutely psychotic about the game of basketball.

And if you're willing to work from 6:00am until 11:00 at night, probably have a couple screw screw looses for the game, you are, you are a good person that really wants to help others, kids and coaches alike.

So Snow Valley's meant everything to me.

That's where I also met Coach McAdams.

So Coach Show Walter talks about if you want to be better as a coach, you have to go to camps and clinics.

Go to camps and clinics.

And so I've done that.

That's where I met Coach McAdams.

He had an opportunity, a rise on his staff and I was down here about a month later and that all came from Snow Valley.

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It also speaks to just what we discovered from doing the podcast for the last six years.

And I guess I.

I sort of knew this before we started, but I don't think I fully comprehended the just willingness of people to share their knowledge, to share their connections, to invest in something that they feel is worthwhile.

And then probably the most overwhelming thing is just the love for the game of basketball that's out there.

And I know you can probably speak to this as well, but I grew up just loving the game of basketball.

And in my little area of Strongsville, Ohio, here, suburb of Cleveland, I was.

You know, I mean, I loved the game, felt like I loved it more than.

More than anybody.

And sometimes you get caught up in it, and it's maybe not as easy to get caught up in it as it is, you know, back then as it is now, because with social media, you can see lots of things and whatever, but back in my day as a.

As a young kid and then as a young coach, you know, you were kind of isolated in your own sort of.

Sort of little world.

And I just.

The love for the game of basketball and the willingness of people to share and your story does a tremendous job of illustrating that.

That, you know, here's a bunch of people that obviously, at the time you're meeting them, had.

Are.

Have tremendous, tremendous accomplishments in the game and have done so many things, and yet they're not just walking by you and looking down and go, oh, there's Jordan Klein.

Like, what does this guy want?

You know?

Instead it was, hey, there's Jordan Klein.

Like, look at how hard this guy's working.

How can we help him?

You know, how can we help him to be better so ultimately we can help game of basketball be better.

And a word that you said that keep flashing in my mind as I think about what you just shared is just that idea of just being genuine, right, and genuinely caring about somebody else.

And too often in this world today, you don't see people.

You see a lot of, I guess, window dressing of people who say, hey, you know, yeah, I'll, you know, I'll help, whatever.

But the.

The number of people that actually will set something down, set something aside to.

To help someone, that's when you really start talking about those genuine relationships.

And I know that Jason and I, when we went out together for the first time to Snow Valley, we certainly felt that.

And then I went back a couple times with my son and felt it even stronger and just the number of people that we've had on the pod from, from Snow Valley.

And of course it all starts, as you said, with Coach Showalter and Coach Slobaw and just how gracious they were to be able to first of all invite us to come on the podcast to be a part of it.

And so I can completely understand the reverence that you have for those two guys and what they've been able to do for you in your career.

When you think about this plan that you started that we talked about a few minutes ago with you and your wife, kind of putting it together and you see kind of where it's taken you, what have been, the things that kind of have gone according to plan and what are.

Is there a thing or two that maybe has been a surprise or a twist that you didn't see coming when you put together that original plan?

That is the most relevant question you could ask me at this time in my first 72 hours down in Arkansas.

So I now have, we have a two year old daughter, happy, healthy, amazing.

I've been able to spend a lot of time with her for the last, with, with her at home with the last two years.

Coach Slapaw was very understanding.

He allowed me to do scouting reports and film for my home office so I could spend more time around my daughter.

And like I said, this opportunity arose very quickly.

So I am in, I'm currently sitting, I'm, I'm 32, I have fortunate to have two houses and an investment property and I am sitting in a college dorm room on campus right now.

I just had three meals in the cafeteria today and my wife and 2 year old daughter are back in Cedar Rapids for the next, you know, for the foreseeable for this season.

My wife is the head dance coach at Cornell College and she committed to the season prior to this opportunity arising.

So again, going back to Coach Sowalter, you know, in order to be different, you have to do things differently.

I would also share from my finance days with Dave Ramsey says if you live like no one else later, you can eventually live like no one else.

And can't tell you how hard the last 72 hours have been and making this decision and not just me collectively with my wife as a, as a unit, but I am for the first time not living with my wife and daughter for potentially six months.

So yeah, there's been some twists and turns and there's been some conversations that have ended in tears and I've also been really excited over the last few days to be back in the gym, working with great talent, having established relationships.

There's no, no way that I would be sitting in the, that I would have chose to sit in this dorm room right now if it wasn't for relationships with Coach McAdams that were built off of Snow Valley.

So it's not all doom and gloom.

I'm happy to be here.

It's a really great opportunity.

But as far as personal life goes, absolutely.

There have been some twists and turns.

What was the discussion like with your wife when this opportunity is presented to you?

What were some of the things that you guys talked about?

What was your process?

Because I think this is a, an interesting conversation.

It's an interesting situation that I think a lot of coaches who are at the college level, who are at the early stages of their career have to make similar decisions.

They have to decide, am I willing to move, am I willing to be separated from my spouse, my kids for a certain period of time, am I willing to work for less money to be able to take a step forward in my career?

So I think that whatever you're willing to share about that conversation, maybe how you structured it.

Did you talk pros and cons?

Did you just.

How did you go about having that discussion so that it would be productive and you could ultimately make what was going to be the best decision for you and your family?

Yeah, I mean we, I had a great, I had a great year, great time at Cornell building those relationships.

I love everything about both slob odds that are there.

And so, yeah, absolutely, we made pros and cons.

We had conversations about, you know, when you make a decision, they're good and bad, there's positive and negative consequences to everything.

And so we, we listed those things out.

For what it's worth, I'm not set on this.

Like the division that you're in and coaching is nice.

I'm happy to be at Division 2 level.

I also really, I was excited to be you mentioned in the intro, but I'm excited to be on the women's side because I have a two year old daughter.

So we talked about the pros and cons of the opportunity.

I think that exists in the women's game right now, being in Iowa for the last year, the Caitlin Clark effect and the rise of women's basketball and the awareness.

So.

And then personally, I'm thinking big picture about how temporary this is in the scheme of our, our marriage and our lives and then how that's going to impact.

I'll just say personally, how that can impact my daughter later.

On in life, being able to be around, you know, strong minded women.

And I, I mean that's very genuinely.

So if there's anything that I can do to help my daughter be in a better place or help her succeed later in life, if this is one thing I can do to do that, I am, I'm willing to drive nine hours down to Arkansas and live in a college dorm.

So yeah, we talked about the pros and cons again with her flexibility of work and having family nearby and sort of and you know, having a support system to where she might not love her day to day, it's not optimal but you know, she, we can make it work.

And so she gave me that blessing 12, 15 months after moving from Milwaukee, Wisconsin down to Iowa for Cornell.

So again, you're, you're, I think it's so important to note that you can have the best plan, you can be willing to put it into action.

You can make pros and cons lists, but if you don't have a support system, whether it's through your spouse, your family, whatever that is, I just can't, in my, in my reality, in small corner of the world, can't imagine being able to do something like that.

So I just, I want to reiterate that because it's, I think that's big for coaches if to find people around you that have genuine care and love for you, that are willing to go through you.

It's, it's like when you start dating somebody, you go on a first date and it's awesome.

The conversation's great and then you have your first argument and the test comes out of I don't know if I like you that much or yeah, I'm willing to, I'm willing to fight for you.

I'm willing to work through this.

And it's just been, it's been incredible.

So that's where we're at.

Had you ever set foot in the state of Arkansas before this?

No, sir, I had never.

It was funny when I was walking into the first practice, I was walking in with Coach McAdams, he opened the door to the arena and it was, it was 15 minutes until practice.

And I said, hey, this, you know, this is my first time walking into the arena, right.

I had just got there, had my room set up.

Practice was the next morning and I didn't have an opportunity to even tour the facility.

I saw pictures, I knew them, but.

And it was game time.

The lights were on, the clock was ticking down, and it's time to, time to get to work.

So I will tell you, I'm not making a recruiting pitch for anyone listening to this, but northwest Arkansas is a lot more beautiful than I anticipated.

There are some, there are some rolling hills here, there's waterfalls, there's national park.

I had, I thought I was moving.

I thought I was moving to.

I'm, you know, I thought I was moving to the plains of Kansas.

So it's nice.

Gotcha.

Understood.

Understood.

All right.

So as you get there and you get on campus and obviously you have the relationship that you Described with Coach McAdams and before we jump down, you said basically you've been swallowing information for lack of a better way of saying it since you got onto campus.

What are some of the things that this first 72 hours there that you've, that you've done, that you've taken in, the things that you're trying to assimilate sort of into your experience here in this early part of taking this job.

They had their first, the first Official practice was October 4th and I showed up three days ago.

So, you know, it's late in the process.

It's not something I've experienced before.

So along with learning players and their strengths and weaknesses and you know, trying to do your on court coaching, the biggest thing over the last 72 hours has been learning what, you know, doing my best in every way to be a good assistant coach and have understanding his philosophy in transition offense.

How are we going to be.

Do we force baseline, do we force middle?

Because it's not necessarily about what I've been exposed to in the past.

I think it's really important for us as a staff to have, we can all have our own opinions and if, hey, if this was solely my call in a summer league game, this is what we would do.

But I think it's important for us to have a common message when we address the team.

So understanding his philosophy, sharing input, he's, he's been unbelievable at empowering us to make, to make decisions.

And again within 72 hours to be, for me to be able to lead things in practice and coach his kids that he spends time recruiting and they can be in the transfer portal in four months or tomorrow is unbelievable.

And that all goes back to the relationship from so Valley.

So, you know, I would say learning his philosophy and then Billy is as quickly as possible, you're building relationships with kids.

So I'm just, I'm trying to bring in every day bringing in an energy in something that they might not expect.

Just, it's called a pattern interrupt I like to throw people off their game a little bit.

Um, so they remember you.

It's a lot about who you are as a person instead of what you do.

And I think that goes a long way.

People remember you for that.

So I've been doing that over the last three days.

All right, what's that look like?

What's an example of a pattern interruption?

We have the Gatorade player of the year from Missouri last year.

She's a freshman.

Um, we were in transition.

She got stuck in the short corner, and instead of spacing the floor, she was just.

She was lost in the short corner.

So she subbed out like it was just another team's rotation.

And I walked over to her and I said, hey, can you shoot the ball?

And just an inquisitive, you know, hey, are you.

I.

I just got here.

I don't know anything.

Are you able to shoot?

I don't know.

I haven't seen it on film.

And she looked at me a little bit confused and said, yeah, she's a Gatorade player of the year.

So I said, you know, I know the answer to that question.

Right?

And she laughed and I said, so if you had the choice between being stuck in the short corner and being quiet, or spacing the floor to the corner using your voice and knocking down an open shot, which one would you choose?

And she's like, use my voice in space.

I was like, I think that's the correct answer.

I'm happy you came to that conclusion.

And I don't say it sarcastically.

I'm just smiling.

And in the next possession down, she faces the floor and hits a three and looks at me and she runs back on defense, takes a little glance.

And to me, that was a good coaching moment of instead of saying, I could have walked over to her and said, hey, I need you to space the space, the floor.

You can't get lost in the short corner.

And I just don't think that resonates as well.

I don't think.

I think there's a learning aspect to that where people need to come to their own conclusions or have the perception that they come to their own conclusions based on how you coach and lead and communicate.

So that's a.

That was a quick one that happened yesterday, right out of the gate.

Yeah.

Sort of bringing something unusual.

Right.

An approach where you're getting across the same message, but maybe doing it in such a way that it's more memorable.

It's different.

It's not an out of the box strategy that somebody can Say, hey, I've heard a coach say that to me before.

Maybe you just approach it in a slightly different way.

And to your point, I think that does maybe make it more memorable and make it more impactful to say.

To say it short and sweet.

I just.

And this is to keep it short and sweet.

Telling is not teaching.

And I think.

I think a lot of times coaches make a lot of statements.

They talk a lot because they want players to know how much they know.

But it doesn't matter what we say.

It's what people.

It's what people retain and understand.

And so I think asking questions just activates your brain and gets people to figure it out for themselves, which they will remember.

When there's fans and their parents are there and their boyfriend or girlfriend's there and there's distractions, you need to be able to retain and apply what you've learned based on your environment.

So telling is not teaching.

Yeah.

Coaching with questions, I think is something that I didn't do hardly at all at the beginning of my coaching career.

And then I think as time has gone on, I've become better and better and better at that.

And to your point, it allows the player to come to their own conclusion or a conclusion that they.

Again, maybe there's the conclusion that your question is leading them to, but it gets them to the concept or the idea or the answer that you, as the coach, are looking for them to find.

And so that's again, another way to be able to.

To cement that learning that you're trying to do with players out on the court and trying to get that across to them as you're talking about relationships.

And obviously, very quickly, you've been there such a short period of time, so it may not even be necessarily put into practice quite yet at Fort Smith.

But when you think about building relationships with players, what does that look like for you in your mind?

You talked a little bit before about your relationships with some of the guys from Snow Valley and just the coaches and just how the relationship is genuine.

So how do you develop those genuine relationships with players so that a, they know that they're valued as people, but also so that you can get in there and they understand that the relationship that you've built with them off the floor allows you to push them and get the best out of them on the floor.

My first practice, walked into the gym.

I was quiet for most of practice for day one.

Showing up after their first official practice, observing, not pushing anyone's buttons.

I'm.

I'm there.

I'M the new guy.

And today we.

A couple things.

We did a ball handling warmup drill.

Coach McAdams let me lead that.

And it was.

And it was fun.

It wasn't.

We had two people arm arm's length away, just touch fingertips.

There was a cone in between them.

We would do a different ball handling series, and then whoever picked up the cone first, one very simple.

We did about eight different variations.

But it was great for me to be able to lead that in a fun, competitive way.

So people were smiling out of the gate at the first thing that I had led.

That was important to me.

We also implemented today after meetings, the classic communication circle that USA Basketball uses.

So I had the players.

Players linked arms at the beginning of practice on the baseline.

I went and talked to them, and I said, again, I like to ask questions, and I just want people to know that I'm genuine and I'm a real person that they can talk to and not just another coach that's going to harp on them all day.

So I said, hey, guys.

I said, hey, ladies, how long have I been here?

And they said, one day.

That's right.

And I'm already switching stuff up, and I'm making you link arms.

So here's what we're going to do.

You guys are going to.

With 30 seconds left before practice starts, you're going to link arms on the baseline.

Whoever's a leader on the team, upperclassmen, I just want you to communicate something that you're excited about for today, what you're looking forward to.

And when you're done, the coaches will be at half court.

You're going to jog and clap to half court, where I'll link arms.

And then Coach McAdams will talk about what we're doing for the day, anything we have coming up, any events we have planned, et cetera.

And then I also mentioned if we had.

If you were at the University of Iowa and you have a staff of 74 coaches, they will watch practice, film back, and they track touches.

Um, and so we focused a lot today just on togetherness with the communication circle.

I will share.

Also, at the end of practice, we all went toe to toe in a circle because they're all sweaty and don't want to touch each other.

And I had everyone look to the person to their left one at a time and say something that they did positive today, and I'll change that up, and it'll be fun.

I might might ask, ask them who has the most pairs of Jordans, what's their Favorite parachute, what's your favorite food, Tell somebody something you don't know about that they don't know about you, et cetera.

And I just think that builds relationships again.

And just, again, it makes you seem human and authentic and there's.

There's things to you.

And I want them to know I have a wife and a kid and that it, you know, et cetera, I think.

But we did all that in the last two.

Two practices, so that was great.

I think that sharing things as a coach about your life outside of your basketball team is a really valuable piece because when you think about your experience as a player, or oftentimes I'll think about my day job as a teacher.

And so often kids have this perception of they only see you in that role that they're seeing you most frequently in, and they're.

They're oftentimes like, so I teach elementary PE during the day.

And obviously those kids are a lot younger than the girls that you're coaching now, but they'll still sometimes say to me, like, you have kids or, you know, you're married, and they have no idea that there's a life beyond the four walls of the school.

And I think the more that you can open up and be vulnerable and share things about your family, about your life, about your hopes, your dreams, then that sort of frees up them to feel comfortable to be able to do the same thing.

And before you know it, now everybody's sharing things.

And people know a lot more about their teammates.

They know a lot more about their coaches.

Coaches know a lot more about their players.

And again, how do you build those genuine relationships that we talked about?

It's by getting to know someone and investing in them and learning about them and caring about them, not just as a basketball player, but as a person.

I think that those examples that you just gave are really powerful ways to be able to build those relationships that you need, obviously, to be able to have a cohesive and successful basketball program, no matter what level of basketball you're talking about.

Let's talk a little bit about your role and what you and Coach McAdams have talked about specifically day to day.

Do you have.

What.

What's your job description?

Is there.

Do you guys break it down by.

We have somebody.

Are you in charge of a specific aspect within practice?

Is it.

Everybody's kind of coaching everything?

Just how does he break it down in terms of what your on court responsibilities are?

Let's start there.

On court description, I would say, is developing and ongoing.

He's Figuring me out.

I'm figuring out what he needs.

So today I did a small group workout with three players.

I did some ball handling, I did a finishing at the rim with guards and then I think tomorrow it'll flip flop and I'll work with post players and do some shooting drills as well, put them in some situations.

But he had, he had one assist, one, he had a full time assistant, has one along with myself.

And so it's just been a lot of learning each other.

But I can tell you he had the biggest smile on his face today when he was able to have each of us on one half of the floor when we did position work and he was able to get half court and just observe and then critique and sound bites on what he saw.

But he didn't have to be engaged with the drill and setting it up.

So the support aspect of just being able to come in and help help a program just by having a body in another set of eyes I think has been pretty valuable.

What was your previous experience with coaching on the women's side of the game?

Had you done any of that prior to this opportunity?

No.

What sparked my interest, I coached boys in high school men for a year at Cornell.

But having my 2 year old daughter was, it made me, it made me look and consider.

But I can tell you it directly came from Snow Valley.

There are three boys camps and one girls camp and without compare, the girls camp is by far my favorite to coach from a coachability standpoint.

You know, not every kid thinks that they're LeBron and can shoot 45 foot step back threes.

And I also really like, I will share, I really like the challenge of coaching women and I mean it from the standpoint that I think it's a, I think it's a good reflection, it's a great reflection on who you are as a coach.

From my experience, having girls and now women around me that are so coachable and eager to learn and they want to get better if it's good information in good results on the floor, bad information in bad results on the floor.

So I really appreciate the challenge of having to be detailed with what I say, when I say it, how I say it.

I think that's really.

I've had an opportunity to coach, you know, two of my daughter's teams and there definitely is a, there's a difference, I think in, I don't want to say coachability because it's not that necessarily boys aren't coachable, but I do think your point of in the boys Game, there's a lot more of.

Everybody thinks they're really, really good.

And I think sometimes on the girls side, it's almost the opposite.

Like you have to convince them sometimes that hey, you know, you're really good.

Right.

And so it's about, I think, you know, building that confidence and giving them that opportunity to be able to sort of shine and express those, you know, express the talents that they have that sometimes the guys are maybe too, too willing to express talents that maybe they don't have.

Versus, versus.

Sometimes the girls, you gotta, you know, you gotta be able to give them a little bit of confidence to show what they can do.

And there's definitely a different dynamic when it comes to, you know, it comes to coaching on the guy side and coaching on the girl side.

I will say I can agree with you 100% when it comes to a camp setting.

I have not worked the girls Snow Valley camp.

My daughter, who is a freshman in high school, that is my goal in the next.

Sometime in her next two summers, I guess three.

I have three summers still left with her as a high school player that I'm going to try to get out there.

Just depending on my, my own work schedule and her AAU schedule and family vacation, everything that my goal is to get out there and work that session.

But working lots and lots of camps that I've done for, I don't know, 30 some odd years.

I can say that when you talk about girls in a camp setting as far as coachability and being enjoyable and the girls are much better listeners that whatever age you want to throw in there, they are much better listeners and pick up things much quicker than the boys do, especially in a camp setting as you describe.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more with you.

Can you still hear me?

Yes, yes.

We got you.

Computer.

Yeah, got you.

There you go.

So, yeah, I couldn't agree more with you.

It's it that has been very.

That's been a learning curve for me over the last 48 hours of.

I like.

There's a book I'm reading called the Art of Encouragement and just how do you communicate with someone that it, you know, like you said, it goes from potentially having too much ego to having not enough ego based on your capabilities.

Right.

So I mean, it's going to.

That it's improving me as a coach regardless of what side I'm coaching on, it's 100% going to translate to being a better dad.

And you know, there's just.

You're capable, you're worthy, you're valuable.

And how do you express that in a non cliche way that they say, okay, this guy just got done reading a tweet and he just relayed it to me.

And so no, it's been, but it's been, it's been really fun.

And I've done that with a, with a couple of players already.

And the feedback, because we did the communication circle, the feedback's been really good about just the energy and the positivity and who we are as people that we want to genuinely.

Again, it goes back to the Snow Valley character, you know, your pillars and who you are as a person just being genuine and authentic and then they're willing to work and fight for someone that they know has their back.

Yeah, no question.

No doubt about that.

All right, Jordan, before we wrap up, I want to ask you one final two part question.

So I think this question is relevant at this point.

I don't know if you're quite ready to answer it.

It might be better answered a week from now, but let's ask it anyway.

So the first part of the question is when you look ahead over the next year.

So this is going to be your first season in a new job.

You're going to be separated from your family during at least a portion of this.

What do you see as being your biggest challenge over the next year?

And then the second part of it, and we touched on it throughout the podcast tonight.

But your biggest joy.

So your biggest challenge followed by your biggest joy.

It's a good question.

I'm thinking there's pros and cons to it, but I would say some of it will just be learning maybe some of the nuances of the women's game.

And then I feel really comfortable talking to, talking to recruits.

But I think there will definitely be a learning curve on.

I think it's possible that women will make decisions earlier, you know, that might commit to a school their junior year, whereas some boys or young men will wait until the summer after their senior year and stress their parents out to no end to make a decision.

Yep.

Because they have zero college offers and it's possible that Duke might give them a call the next day.

So I think there's some of that, but I'm.

That'll be, that'll be a learning curve.

But, you know, something I'm, I'm not afraid of or shying away from.

And I definitely know I have a good support system around me with Coach McAdams.

But something I'm most excited about is, you know, biggest thing I think from being Division 3 to Division 2 is I'll be able to have more time with players and maintain those relationships.

So, you know, we can love or hate the transfer portal and it's there.

But I actually, I love, I love the onus that it puts on coaches to be, again, authentic and genuine.

I, I think it's really exciting, especially at the Division 2 level, to be able to, I have access to work with players much more than I did at Division 3.

And then again, it's a, it's a great reflection on who you are as a coach and the culture that you have and the people and the people that are around you, whether they decide to stay or not, because they are much more empowered than they have been in the past.

And I think that's a great thing.

Truthfully, I think it makes, I think it just evens out the playing field and empowers people and gives them options.

So I'm actually really excited to build relationships with the players and then work with them for multiple years.

All right, before we get out, I want you to share how people can connect with you.

Whether you want to share, email, social media, website, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I will jump back in and wrap things up.

Very good.

My cell phone number is 262-505-3176.

My ex handle is Coach J Klein K L E I N and Instagram is at Coach J M Klein.

And then my email address is J M Klein K L E I N 12 Gmail.

But real quick, again my cell phone's 262505 3176.

Feel free to call or shoot a text.

Awesome.

Jordan, cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us.

Really appreciate it and to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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Thanks for listening to the Hoopheads podcast presented by Head Start Basketball.