Speaker: 00:00:00

Welcome everybody to Gospel Talks podcast where we help Christians all over the world

become more effective in relational evangelism and discipleship.

00:00:07,822 --> 00:00:13,253

My name is George Binoka and with me is my dear friend and brother in Christ, Jeff

Musgrave.

00:00:13,253 --> 00:00:17,024

He's the author, founder of The Exchange and we're excited to be with you guys.

00:00:17,024 --> 00:00:24,375

We're gonna be talking about what I think is one of the most helpful tools, especially

during my time in Africa as a missionary.

00:00:24,375 --> 00:00:29,266

I found this to especially be helpful when witnessing to folks that are coming out of a

religion.

00:00:29,266 --> 00:00:33,441

that uses similar terms to biblical Christianity and all those things.

00:00:33,441 --> 00:00:41,089

But there is a triangle at the end of, or I think the middle of chapter four, Jeff, of the

Exchange Bible study.

00:00:42,771 --> 00:00:45,693

It's the three elements of saving faith.

00:00:45,693 --> 00:00:48,716

you know, we talk about what is faith.

00:00:48,716 --> 00:00:55,944

And I think that's such an important question to answer, especially for our friends who

are religious, but

00:00:55,944 --> 00:00:57,616

don't have a relationship with Jesus.

00:00:57,616 --> 00:01:05,778

This is so important to not creating confusion in their life because so many people define

faith differently.

00:01:05,778 --> 00:01:12,429

what would you, as you put together this chapter, Jeff, what was the logic behind that

section?

00:01:12,429 --> 00:01:16,500

back all the way up to the beginning of the of the lesson.

00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:23,051

helping people understand grace, because grace is not something I earn.

00:01:23,051 --> 00:01:32,062

mean, by it very nature by its very definition, grace is a gift that can only be received

as a gift.

00:01:32,062 --> 00:01:33,202

It's not something I deserve.

00:01:33,202 --> 00:01:39,714

And it's not something that I that I even can can earn.

00:01:39,714 --> 00:01:43,357

it is literally a gift and helping person start with that.

00:01:43,357 --> 00:01:46,991

So we start with the recognition that God is gracious.

00:01:46,991 --> 00:01:57,883

And so we kind of point to some verses that help us see his graciousness, but then begin

to help people recognize that that grace means that God is giving to us what we don't

00:01:57,883 --> 00:01:58,754

deserve.

00:01:58,754 --> 00:02:02,919

And in fact, we use a definition, bit of an oversimplification.

00:02:02,919 --> 00:02:05,810

grace is God giving me what I don't deserve.

00:02:05,810 --> 00:02:09,062

And mercy is God not giving me what I do deserve.

00:02:09,062 --> 00:02:15,175

But but helping people to recognize that God's grace and mercy is is really from him.

00:02:15,175 --> 00:02:24,782

It's based on his nature, just like God is holy comes from his nature, and that God is

just comes from his nature.

00:02:24,782 --> 00:02:26,193

And it got his loving it.

00:02:26,193 --> 00:02:28,024

He doesn't love me because I'm so lovable.

00:02:28,024 --> 00:02:32,367

He loves me because his love nature demands that he reach out to me.

00:02:32,367 --> 00:02:33,028

He loves me.

00:02:33,028 --> 00:02:35,500

I mean, it's not it's his nature to love.

00:02:35,500 --> 00:02:37,312

What's God's nature to be gracious.

00:02:37,312 --> 00:02:50,783

And I love the Ephesians three where it tells us the purpose of the church is to

demonstrate to the angels, the beauty and it uses this word that kind of comes

00:02:50,783 --> 00:03:02,722

from variegated beauty of his grace, that literally God had to have something worthless

and rebellious to redeem, to be able to show the angels an aspect of his character that

00:03:02,722 --> 00:03:05,043

would never have shown up in a perfect heaven.

00:03:05,043 --> 00:03:12,531

It had to have a sinful earth with sinful people to for God to be able to pour out grace

and mercy on.

00:03:12,531 --> 00:03:16,194

Mmm, I love that You know grace is is so beautiful.

00:03:16,194 --> 00:03:27,502

It's so rich it also for some reason I don't know why you could help me answer this Is so

uncomfortable a concept to so many people that would maybe be called religious I don't I

00:03:27,502 --> 00:03:32,517

don't know why grace as Simple as it is is so hard to accept

00:03:32,517 --> 00:03:40,837

Yeah, I think that it all comes back to recognizing the fullness of our sinfulness.

00:03:40,837 --> 00:03:43,608

So I mean, that's why we have to start all the way back at holiness.

00:03:43,608 --> 00:03:50,428

When we don't get grace, it's because we think we could earn it.

00:03:50,428 --> 00:04:00,439

We think we could get close enough to God if we're just good enough and that God should

love me and be okay with me just the way I am.

00:04:00,439 --> 00:04:05,543

And we don't realize the awfulness of our sin to the holiness of God.

00:04:05,543 --> 00:04:18,117

And that's why grace doesn't jump out at us because we don't, I actually think that as we

downplay that the horrors of hell, we downplays the beauty and the glory of grace.

00:04:18,117 --> 00:04:21,876

Yeah, think grace is so important.

00:04:21,876 --> 00:04:24,724

that's logically where you start grace and what do you go to next?

00:04:24,724 --> 00:04:26,268

Well, I...

00:04:26,268 --> 00:04:36,546

the phrase saving faith is where we illustrate the triangles to helping people see the

three different angles or elements of saving faith.

00:04:36,546 --> 00:04:43,070

And this came from, at least to me, a book called the title of it went away from me just

now.

00:04:43,070 --> 00:04:45,713

thinking only of the title of the chapter he wrote.

00:04:45,713 --> 00:04:51,337

But all of grace, that's I'm sorry, I just remembered it's by Charles Spurgeon.

00:04:51,337 --> 00:04:56,422

And it was an 8289 page gospel tract that he wrote.

00:04:56,422 --> 00:04:57,673

And he had different chapters.

00:04:57,673 --> 00:05:05,549

And in one of the chapters is a contrast between what he calls common faith, and saving

faith.

00:05:05,549 --> 00:05:11,354

Common faith would be that I understand these concepts, and I agree with them.

00:05:11,354 --> 00:05:17,217

And what I find is that most religious people, when they get to this point, okay, I

believe that.

00:05:17,217 --> 00:05:25,579

mean, what everything you've been telling me, I believe that that's common faith, common

faith is understanding it and agreeing with it.

00:05:25,579 --> 00:05:29,510

But then what what Spurgeon did was he added a third element.

00:05:29,510 --> 00:05:32,782

In fact, all he's doing is extracting this truth from Scripture.

00:05:32,782 --> 00:05:38,294

And the third element is that I personally am going to choose to

00:05:38,294 --> 00:05:41,726

trust or to depend on what God has done.

00:05:41,726 --> 00:05:45,428

So that's the that's the element of saving faith that most people miss.

00:05:45,428 --> 00:05:52,944

So if you could imagine that triangle, one element being I understand the second being I

agree.

00:05:52,944 --> 00:06:04,054

But that third angle being I'm going to personally trust I'm going to personally put my

dependence on what Jesus Christ did for me.

00:06:04,054 --> 00:06:04,855

I love that.

00:06:04,855 --> 00:06:11,243

You know, it's really interesting considering the question I just asked you a moment ago,

you know, why grace is so tough to accept.

00:06:11,243 --> 00:06:14,185

So then, you you think about this as well.

00:06:14,185 --> 00:06:22,233

is it easier for us to trust ourselves and try to, you know, kind of earn our salvation,

so to speak, than it is to trust God?

00:06:22,233 --> 00:06:26,187

Because if that's really the key, is this third angle, I guess you could say,

00:06:26,187 --> 00:06:31,480

besides understand and agree, which a lot of the world might actually do understand and

agree.

00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:42,049

But I found in Africa, so many people on the street will tell you, yeah, no, believe me, I

understand and I agree with you because they were even taught in school in Africa, in

00:06:42,049 --> 00:06:45,022

Kenya, that this is the gospel, okay?

00:06:45,022 --> 00:06:48,315

But then this trust and depend is really tough.

00:06:48,315 --> 00:06:48,826

And...

00:06:48,826 --> 00:06:50,900

Why do we trust ourselves?

00:06:50,900 --> 00:06:52,220

Why don't we trust God?

00:06:52,220 --> 00:06:59,617

Well, don't you think that number one, we have all been let down by every single human in

the world.

00:06:59,617 --> 00:07:03,840

There's not a human that is completely trustworthy.

00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:10,866

And I think that it's hard for people to recognize the full trust worthiness of of God.

00:07:10,866 --> 00:07:14,619

So I think that it's almost by default, there's no one else to trust.

00:07:14,619 --> 00:07:18,727

And if I just keep trying harder, if I just keep, you know, a little bit more,

00:07:18,727 --> 00:07:20,331

I don't have anybody else to trust.

00:07:20,331 --> 00:07:28,008

Yeah, and I mean, there's part of me that's got to believe too that there has to be a

pride element in, you I trust myself with it.

00:07:28,008 --> 00:07:37,545

mean, it's, it's, you know, there's a sense in which Satan was saying was, you know,

trying to do something himself when he rebelled against God and trusted himself more than

00:07:37,545 --> 00:07:38,618

he trusted God.

00:07:38,618 --> 00:07:42,252

And so this is what kind of led up to that rebellion.

00:07:42,252 --> 00:07:48,819

And so I got to imagine that it's another way of rebelling against God is saying, you

know, I can do it.

00:07:48,819 --> 00:07:49,780

It's okay.

00:07:49,780 --> 00:07:50,741

Or I'll help you.

00:07:50,741 --> 00:07:51,565

You know.

00:07:51,565 --> 00:07:59,184

which is kind of interesting because what that means is that the religions of work are

actually religions of rebellion.

00:07:59,184 --> 00:08:00,954

I will do it my way.

00:08:00,954 --> 00:08:12,666

Which the reason that rebellion is so easy is because we there is another enemy in this

world who has been for years speaking into the

00:08:12,666 --> 00:08:16,460

hearts and minds of humans and telling them there's another way.

00:08:16,460 --> 00:08:26,469

And this way lifts you and and all of the self love and all of the self worth and the self

ability that we see in the world.

00:08:26,469 --> 00:08:31,353

That that voice is not coming from the Bible that voice is not coming from God.

00:08:31,353 --> 00:08:33,194

And there is another voice in this world.

100

00:08:33,194 --> 00:08:35,847

And I think that that voice, you know, it

101

00:08:35,847 --> 00:08:47,222

even in the very garden before Adam and Eve fell, what really appealed to Eve was that

voice telling her, hey, you could be like God, you know, you could elevate yourself.

102

00:08:47,222 --> 00:08:50,756

So yes, that other voice is really strong in this world.

103

00:08:50,756 --> 00:08:55,760

You know, what's interesting about that is, you know, we know Satan had a desire to be

God.

104

00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,592

We know he had a desire to usurp him, right?

105

00:08:59,592 --> 00:09:00,623

Take his place.

106

00:09:00,623 --> 00:09:02,985

And that that was the same lie he sold Adam and Eve.

107

00:09:02,985 --> 00:09:13,081

And I think that when we decide we want to help with our salvation, kind of sort of save

ourselves, we in a sense are saying like Satan did or Adam and Eve did, we want to be like

108

00:09:13,081 --> 00:09:13,634

God.

109

00:09:13,634 --> 00:09:18,048

not just like Him in quality, like we want to be Him in a sense.

110

00:09:18,048 --> 00:09:20,569

And so I think it's very important for people to understand.

111

00:09:20,569 --> 00:09:24,403

I think that's what I love about this chapter too, chapter four of the Exchange Bible

study.

112

00:09:24,403 --> 00:09:25,414

You can't.

113

00:09:25,414 --> 00:09:26,515

You're not.

114

00:09:26,515 --> 00:09:27,586

That's not who you are.

115

00:09:27,586 --> 00:09:29,128

That's not who we are.

116

00:09:29,128 --> 00:09:30,220

We are not God.

117

00:09:30,220 --> 00:09:32,042

And only God can do this thing.

118

00:09:32,042 --> 00:09:32,833

I think that's...

119

00:09:32,833 --> 00:09:36,853

have based on what you just said, I want to back up just a little bit.

120

00:09:36,853 --> 00:09:46,775

And when we do the exchange Bible study with unbelievers, we need to remember that those

are those are the underlying philosophies that drive this.

121

00:09:46,775 --> 00:09:52,155

But the fact is, your average Joe on the street is just trying to do the right thing.

122

00:09:52,155 --> 00:09:53,346

He's just trying.

123

00:09:53,346 --> 00:09:56,926

mean, I learned in church that I'm supposed to be good.

124

00:09:56,926 --> 00:09:59,417

I learned in church that I'm supposed to say these

125

00:09:59,417 --> 00:10:03,530

words that are good.

126

00:10:03,530 --> 00:10:05,451

And they really don't know.

127

00:10:05,451 --> 00:10:10,465

And so we we have to be careful saying everything we know about them.

128

00:10:10,465 --> 00:10:12,847

They're just trying the best.

129

00:10:12,847 --> 00:10:23,073

And I have found many times when I show people this three angles of saving faith, it's

like, oh, that that that kind of makes sense.

130

00:10:23,073 --> 00:10:24,725

And so what we do then

131

00:10:24,725 --> 00:10:33,174

is we we the the Bible study here starts multiple illustrations that help a person

understand.

132

00:10:33,174 --> 00:10:37,158

Charles Spurgeon also said, illustrations are windows into the truth.

133

00:10:37,158 --> 00:10:48,809

So if you could just imagine what these illustrations in the Bible study do, is they

literally are are letting people come right up to the truth and gaze into the windows so

134

00:10:48,809 --> 00:10:49,921

that they're Oh,

135

00:10:49,921 --> 00:10:51,182

Oh, I understand.

136

00:10:51,182 --> 00:10:59,870

And the problem with most unbelievers is not that they are, I want to be rebellious, I

want to do it myself.

137

00:10:59,870 --> 00:11:05,956

There's a there's a piece of that in every human, but they're not thinking that what

they're thinking is, that's what I'm supposed to do.

138

00:11:05,956 --> 00:11:07,557

I'm trying my best.

139

00:11:07,557 --> 00:11:12,422

And what we want to do is give them illustrations to help them see no, here's what God

said.

140

00:11:12,422 --> 00:11:14,224

So if that makes sense.

141

00:11:14,224 --> 00:11:15,625

Yes, absolutely.

142

00:11:15,625 --> 00:11:18,899

Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, these are, these are lies.

143

00:11:18,899 --> 00:11:20,751

mean, they didn't manufacture the lies, right?

144

00:11:20,751 --> 00:11:26,227

But these are lies that are underlying, like you said, that they, they might not even be

able to verbalize.

145

00:11:26,227 --> 00:11:28,889

This is the philosophy I'm buying into, right?

146

00:11:28,889 --> 00:11:32,333

They're just, they're going based off of, this is what I've always heard.

147

00:11:32,333 --> 00:11:35,406

and this, this why the truth is such a light to people.

148

00:11:35,406 --> 00:11:37,567

It just opens their eyes, like you said.

149

00:11:37,801 --> 00:11:38,501

it really is.

150

00:11:38,501 --> 00:11:41,831

It's it's kind of cool when people see the truth.

151

00:11:41,831 --> 00:11:44,314

I and you and I have said this before, too.

152

00:11:44,314 --> 00:11:48,247

The best way to show a crooked line is to draw a straight line.

153

00:11:48,247 --> 00:11:58,270

And so rather than for me to say, well, your religion said this and your religion said

this, if I can just help them see the straight line of truth, it's like, yeah, that makes

154

00:11:58,270 --> 00:11:59,281

sense to me.

155

00:11:59,281 --> 00:12:02,313

So I love and you've seen me use this over and over.

156

00:12:02,313 --> 00:12:03,540

I know you've used it.

157

00:12:03,540 --> 00:12:14,691

The Blondine illustration, by the way, I didn't, I didn't create that I borrowed that I

think everything that I know I borrowed somewhere.

158

00:12:14,691 --> 00:12:19,942

But Blondine stretched a tightrope across the Niagara Falls.

159

00:12:19,942 --> 00:12:25,702

He actually did this two summers in a row 19 or excuse me, 1858 and 1860.

160

00:12:25,702 --> 00:12:29,814

And he walked across it multiple times and two different times.

161

00:12:29,814 --> 00:12:32,274

he carried his manager across on his back.

162

00:12:32,274 --> 00:12:34,365

I mean, he was an amazing guy.

163

00:12:34,365 --> 00:12:41,496

But he had a wheelbarrow that he would put on the rope and push across.

164

00:12:41,496 --> 00:12:46,776

And he would do all kinds of tricks with the wheelbarrow and people would come from miles

to see it.

165

00:12:46,776 --> 00:12:58,097

One day, he asked the crowd and if he could put a human in the wheelbarrow if they thought

he could and

166

00:12:58,097 --> 00:12:59,267

The crowd said, yes, yes.

167

00:12:59,267 --> 00:13:07,022

And the story is told that he said to a man in the front row with his hand in the air

saying, I believe you can do that.

168

00:13:07,022 --> 00:13:08,412

So let's just stop for a moment.

169

00:13:08,412 --> 00:13:10,053

We're going back to the three angles.

170

00:13:10,053 --> 00:13:13,865

I understand it and I agree that you can do it.

171

00:13:13,865 --> 00:13:14,985

Those are the two things.

172

00:13:14,985 --> 00:13:23,898

That's what he meant when he had his hand in the air and blonde Dean looked at him and

said, you, sir, come get in the wheelbarrow.

173

00:13:24,004 --> 00:13:24,704

And again,

174

00:13:24,704 --> 00:13:27,486

the guy ran him the other direction.

175

00:13:27,486 --> 00:13:29,187

I mean, bolted out of there.

176

00:13:29,187 --> 00:13:30,878

And, and so what was wrong?

177

00:13:30,878 --> 00:13:40,046

Well, he believed that blonding could put someone someone else in that wheelbarrow, but he

wasn't willing to trust blonding to take him across.

178

00:13:40,046 --> 00:13:47,331

And what a beautiful illustration to help a person recognize it is one thing to say, I

believe Jesus can.

179

00:13:47,331 --> 00:13:51,285

And it is another thing to say, okay, Jesus,

180

00:13:51,285 --> 00:13:52,977

I'm going to trust you with my life.

181

00:13:52,977 --> 00:13:58,711

I want to trust you to save myself, to forgive my sins, to cleanse my heart.

182

00:13:58,711 --> 00:14:04,353

That's the beauty of that illustration, just helping a person to be able to see it.

183

00:14:04,543 --> 00:14:05,154

I get it.

184

00:14:05,154 --> 00:14:08,176

That's where I haven't stepped that far yet.

185

00:14:08,176 --> 00:14:14,641

Yeah, yeah, and I've been using these illustrations since I was 18 years old.

186

00:14:14,641 --> 00:14:18,854

I've preached them to thousands of kids in camp.

187

00:14:18,854 --> 00:14:22,107

I've preached them to thousands of young people in schools in Africa.

188

00:14:22,107 --> 00:14:28,191

I've used them hundreds of times in preaching and podcasts and whatever.

189

00:14:28,191 --> 00:14:31,204

so these, I think one of my favorite ones is coming up next.

190

00:14:31,204 --> 00:14:32,665

I think we're gonna go to the river, right?

191

00:14:32,665 --> 00:14:34,231

We're gonna talk about.

192

00:14:34,231 --> 00:14:36,328

there's another illustration between here and the river.

193

00:14:36,328 --> 00:14:41,031

Yeah, but I mean, I just, love these because, yeah, I forget about that one.

194

00:14:41,031 --> 00:14:42,541

There's other ones too, by the way.

195

00:14:42,541 --> 00:14:47,834

I mean, if you ever get a GPS, a gospel presentation system, it's like a little track that

you can flip through.

196

00:14:47,834 --> 00:14:49,554

You practice in a seminar.

197

00:14:49,554 --> 00:14:54,986

You practice, there's an illustration about a flag pole, an illustration about a Grand

Canyon jump, all those things.

198

00:14:54,986 --> 00:14:55,876

And they are perfect.

199

00:14:55,876 --> 00:14:59,507

And by the way, one of the things I realized, they're perfect for all age groups.

200

00:14:59,507 --> 00:15:02,579

Kids get them, adults get them, teenagers get them.

201

00:15:02,579 --> 00:15:08,353

Gen Z gets them, Gen X gets them, know, whatever, millennials get them, baby boomers get

them.

202

00:15:08,353 --> 00:15:19,672

And so these illustrations are powerful because I think when you've taught something over

and over again and you've always thought, okay, if I just do this, it'll be enough, like I

203

00:15:19,672 --> 00:15:22,104

hope it'll outweigh whatever God thinks about me.

204

00:15:22,104 --> 00:15:24,576

You start to think across those lines.

205

00:15:24,576 --> 00:15:27,529

Well, sometimes you need an illustration like this to just kind of

206

00:15:27,529 --> 00:15:32,204

dislodge you a little bit I guess like unjar all that you know so

207

00:15:32,204 --> 00:15:39,970

what I have done on the Bible study right at this page is I go at what people have heard

over and over and over.

208

00:15:39,970 --> 00:15:41,891

And I don't do it from my own words.

209

00:15:41,891 --> 00:15:43,032

I do it from the Bible.

210

00:15:43,032 --> 00:15:54,814

And so there's about five questions here on these pages dealing with the Blondine

illustration and the next illustration that asks the question about can we add

211

00:15:54,814 --> 00:15:57,796

to our faith by working?

212

00:15:57,796 --> 00:15:59,809

Is that something that's possible?

213

00:15:59,809 --> 00:16:03,943

And in all five of these verses, it the answer is no.

214

00:16:03,943 --> 00:16:08,747

So I mean, literally, there's five questions and the answer every single time is the same

answer.

215

00:16:08,747 --> 00:16:15,495

But it's five different verses helping a person recognize this is not faith plus works.

216

00:16:15,495 --> 00:16:19,748

This is literally faith without works, I'm going to trust in Jesus alone.

217

00:16:19,748 --> 00:16:20,870

So with that in mind,

218

00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:24,103

we need an illustration to be able to help a person see it.

219

00:16:24,103 --> 00:16:28,166

And the illustration is two chairs sitting side by side.

220

00:16:28,166 --> 00:16:31,969

One chair represents a person's works.

221

00:16:31,969 --> 00:16:36,961

And the other chair represents the finished work of Jesus on the cross.

222

00:16:36,961 --> 00:16:44,007

And when a person is sitting in the works chair, they begin to recognize at this point, my

works are not going to get me to heaven.

223

00:16:44,007 --> 00:16:45,058

It's not enough.

224

00:16:45,058 --> 00:16:51,632

And so they recognize that that Jesus chair, that's the one I need to be sitting in.

225

00:16:51,632 --> 00:16:55,663

But I always stop and ask them, so what do you have to do to the chair?

226

00:16:55,663 --> 00:16:59,035

And I put two chairs and I actually sit in one.

227

00:16:59,035 --> 00:17:01,807

What do I have to do to the chair I'm sitting in?

228

00:17:01,807 --> 00:17:07,991

And before I can sit in the chair representing Jesus and his finished work, you know,

that's kind of stupid.

229

00:17:07,991 --> 00:17:09,542

And they look at me, well, you have to get out of it.

230

00:17:09,542 --> 00:17:12,475

You can't you can't sit in that chair when you're sitting in this chair.

231

00:17:12,475 --> 00:17:16,875

So I literally get up and then I use the word transfer.

232

00:17:16,875 --> 00:17:27,895

So what I'm going to do is I'm going to transfer my faith from what I have been trying to

do to what Jesus has already accomplished, what he finished, what he did.

233

00:17:28,156 --> 00:17:31,716

And then people look at it and say, Oh, oh, yeah, that that makes sense.

234

00:17:31,716 --> 00:17:34,316

Well, then I just added a little bit more to it.

235

00:17:34,316 --> 00:17:37,456

I sit in between the two chairs.

236

00:17:37,916 --> 00:17:38,707

What if?

237

00:17:38,707 --> 00:17:39,898

What if I decided

238

00:17:39,898 --> 00:17:48,939

that I know my sins aren't enough, but just in case Jesus isn't enough, I'm gonna trust

both my good works and Jesus.

239

00:17:48,939 --> 00:17:50,750

Am I really trusting my good works?

240

00:17:50,750 --> 00:17:52,051

Do I think my good works are enough?

241

00:17:52,051 --> 00:17:53,262

No, I have to have Jesus.

242

00:17:53,262 --> 00:17:55,774

Am I really trusting Jesus?

243

00:17:55,774 --> 00:17:57,025

No, I have to have my good works.

244

00:17:57,025 --> 00:18:03,936

So sitting in the middle of those two chairs, which is where many, many religious people

are.

245

00:18:03,936 --> 00:18:04,332

Hmm.

246

00:18:04,332 --> 00:18:05,142

trusting Jesus.

247

00:18:05,142 --> 00:18:06,123

They know it's important.

248

00:18:06,123 --> 00:18:07,263

They know that Jesus died.

249

00:18:07,263 --> 00:18:11,247

They get it, but they believe they have to still be good.

250

00:18:11,247 --> 00:18:14,490

They believe they have to still give their money to church.

251

00:18:14,490 --> 00:18:20,573

They have to be baptized or whatever else it is that's in the list.

252

00:18:20,573 --> 00:18:26,255

they're adding to, and really what they're saying is, I don't think Jesus is enough.

253

00:18:26,255 --> 00:18:30,180

What God wants us to do is to get out of the chair of works.

254

00:18:30,180 --> 00:18:33,092

and sit in the chair with Jesus alone.

255

00:18:33,092 --> 00:18:34,084

And I love this.

256

00:18:34,084 --> 00:18:36,795

I go straight from that illustration to the river.

257

00:18:36,795 --> 00:18:39,598

And so you heard George talking about the river.

258

00:18:39,598 --> 00:18:50,457

Niagara River is just above the Niagara Falls, and the current is so swift that there's a

place on it that if a person gets past it, they're going to be drawn over.

259

00:18:50,457 --> 00:18:53,648

They're going to be pulled over that the current gets too strong.

260

00:18:53,648 --> 00:18:55,380

They call it the point of no return.

261

00:18:55,380 --> 00:18:55,684

Hmm.

262

00:18:55,684 --> 00:19:07,784

so I asked my friend to imagine what if you were in a rowboat and you absentmindedly got

your point, got your place yourself past that point and you begin to realize it, you turn

263

00:19:07,784 --> 00:19:12,747

your boat around and you start rowing away from the waterfall as hard as you can.

264

00:19:12,747 --> 00:19:15,748

But you realize the water is too strong.

265

00:19:15,748 --> 00:19:22,223

And even though you're rowing away from the waterfall, you're actually still being pulled

towards the waterfall.

266

00:19:22,223 --> 00:19:28,116

someone from the shore sees your problem and throws a rope right across your boat and it's

in your lap.

267

00:19:28,116 --> 00:19:29,427

Now you have a choice to make.

268

00:19:29,427 --> 00:19:33,498

You can keep trying to rescue yourself and die or you can grab the rope.

269

00:19:33,498 --> 00:19:39,122

And I always stop right here and I say to my friends, so if you were in that situation,

what would you do?

270

00:19:39,122 --> 00:19:43,485

And of course they say I'd grab the rope and then I start making it personal.

271

00:19:43,637 --> 00:19:47,321

I say that that water is like your sin.

272

00:19:47,321 --> 00:19:49,194

It's pulling you to destruction.

273

00:19:49,194 --> 00:19:53,459

And those oars are like your good works, your religious activity.

274

00:19:53,459 --> 00:19:56,522

You're trying hard, but it's not enough.

275

00:19:56,548 --> 00:19:57,970

And that rope is like Jesus.

276

00:19:57,970 --> 00:20:05,127

And what God wants you to do right now is to stop trusting in what you can do and put your

trust in Jesus Christ alone.

277

00:20:05,127 --> 00:20:09,002

And I like it because it helps a person actually see it.

278

00:20:09,002 --> 00:20:09,503

Hmm.

279

00:20:09,503 --> 00:20:20,254

Yeah, it's one of the reasons I know no illustration is foolproof, but I know I love that

illustration because it's it's never failed me what you know when when I've used it and

280

00:20:20,254 --> 00:20:29,061

and I think it's such a introspective illustrate it causes you to be introspective because

then you think once you make it personal to them and you go

281

00:20:29,061 --> 00:20:29,951

Now that's you.

282

00:20:29,951 --> 00:20:31,153

mean, that's where you're at.

283

00:20:31,153 --> 00:20:32,204

You're in the boat.

284

00:20:32,204 --> 00:20:34,036

You're past the point of no return.

285

00:20:34,036 --> 00:20:38,711

You will exert, exert, exert, but it's not going to change what the current's going to do.

286

00:20:38,711 --> 00:20:40,453

And you can't overpower the current.

287

00:20:40,453 --> 00:20:41,393

It's coming.

288

00:20:41,393 --> 00:20:42,665

The end is coming.

289

00:20:42,665 --> 00:20:45,658

The rope is now in the boat and you have to make a decision.

290

00:20:45,658 --> 00:20:46,620

You're going to keep rowing.

291

00:20:46,620 --> 00:20:47,581

You're going to grab the boat.

292

00:20:47,581 --> 00:20:53,668

It is, I mean, it hits, it hits like right here, you know, it hits right in the middle of

the chest.

293

00:20:53,668 --> 00:20:59,702

People, you bring them to that point of crisis that we talk about all the time in giving

the exchange.

294

00:20:59,702 --> 00:21:01,734

This is the point of crisis right here.

295

00:21:01,734 --> 00:21:03,033

What are you gonna do?

296

00:21:03,033 --> 00:21:04,634

You have to turn left or right.

297

00:21:04,634 --> 00:21:06,366

This is not a mile post.

298

00:21:06,366 --> 00:21:08,118

It's a fork in the road.

299

00:21:08,118 --> 00:21:12,432

You gotta make a decision because what's at stake is your eternity.

300

00:21:12,432 --> 00:21:12,863

Yeah.

301

00:21:12,863 --> 00:21:24,275

And one of the things that maybe we ought to do a episode on uh natural invitation,

because I believe that there are a couple of things that people have to recognize is

302

00:21:24,275 --> 00:21:28,734

number one, I have sinned, I am guilty.

303

00:21:28,734 --> 00:21:31,908

And number two, Jesus is the solution.

304

00:21:31,908 --> 00:21:33,302

And so you have this

305

00:21:33,302 --> 00:21:37,074

faith and repentance concept that both are important.

306

00:21:37,074 --> 00:21:40,036

And I don't know that we have time to get into that again today.

307

00:21:40,036 --> 00:21:50,936

But but before I would draw that net and help a person to really be able to make a

decision, I would want them to be able to see the whole of the decision they're making.

308

00:21:50,936 --> 00:21:54,329

Maybe that can be the next episode, inviting people to the gospel.

309

00:21:54,329 --> 00:21:57,841

So there's a lot of people who feel like invites don't work anymore.

310

00:21:57,841 --> 00:22:05,535

You should just kind of leave it open-ended and not really, and we make a big deal out of

bringing people to a decision is an important thing.

311

00:22:05,535 --> 00:22:07,826

By the way, let me just say this about that.

312

00:22:07,826 --> 00:22:12,987

If a person decides I need time, we want to give them that that's why we developed other

tools.

313

00:22:13,308 --> 00:22:17,220

What we do want them to see is that there is a decision to be made.

314

00:22:17,220 --> 00:22:26,704

So in other words, if I don't give an invitation, if I don't say to them, would you like

to trust Jesus, then I haven't I haven't helped them to see the whole picture.

315

00:22:26,704 --> 00:22:29,404

um So we're not going to push anybody to do anything.

316

00:22:29,404 --> 00:22:31,486

The Holy Spirit is the one who has to draw someone.

317

00:22:31,486 --> 00:22:38,165

But we do want them to know here is the point at which you interact with the gospel.

318

00:22:38,165 --> 00:22:48,824

Yeah, yeah, and in 2 Peter 3, it tells us that God has a tremendous amount of patience,

which is why he's long suffering, which is why he's giving time right now.

319

00:22:48,824 --> 00:22:55,528

And we ought to have a tremendous amount of patience when we're working with people,

because they might not be ready.

320

00:22:55,528 --> 00:22:58,010

But I mean, what's that story at Tina in Texas?

321

00:22:58,010 --> 00:23:02,759

You know, 10 years to win somebody to Christ, but it's worth it, you know?

322

00:23:02,759 --> 00:23:09,918

That takes a tremendous amount of patience, but that doesn't even begin to capture the

amount of patience that God has with us.

323

00:23:09,918 --> 00:23:11,816

So we can have it.

324

00:23:11,816 --> 00:23:15,290

that one of things we want to be able to do is trust the Holy Spirit.

325

00:23:15,290 --> 00:23:17,643

We're not the ones who make people make decisions.

326

00:23:17,643 --> 00:23:18,864

We can trust the Holy Spirit.

327

00:23:18,864 --> 00:23:21,347

We do, we are the ones who give information.

328

00:23:21,347 --> 00:23:24,341

We're helping people see the fullness of the Bible message.

329

00:23:24,341 --> 00:23:30,859

And so we're going to give the whole message, but we're going to trust the Holy Spirit to

do the work in a person's heart.

330

00:23:30,859 --> 00:23:33,062

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

331

00:23:33,062 --> 00:23:34,670

Anything else before we jump out?

332

00:23:34,670 --> 00:23:36,621

This has been a great episode.

333

00:23:36,621 --> 00:23:39,957

I love this portion of the Exchange Bible study.

334

00:23:39,957 --> 00:23:46,633

Part of the reason I love this portion is because I have just watched over and over and

over.

335

00:23:46,633 --> 00:23:51,678

At this point, someone say no, I want to put my trust in Jesus right now.

336

00:23:51,678 --> 00:23:55,341

And it's just so exciting to be able to help.

337

00:23:55,341 --> 00:23:58,704

I love the Exchange Bible study because it

338

00:23:58,704 --> 00:24:01,265

It kind of walks your friend through it.

339

00:24:01,265 --> 00:24:03,576

It's not something I have to teach.

340

00:24:04,037 --> 00:24:05,949

We like to think of it as inductive.

341

00:24:05,949 --> 00:24:10,892

And it draws that invitation, that decision by itself.

342

00:24:10,892 --> 00:24:12,733

I don't have to make it happen.

343

00:24:12,733 --> 00:24:14,914

The Bible study makes it happen.

344

00:24:14,914 --> 00:24:24,992

And I just have enjoyed being able to know I can trust the Holy Spirit and I can trust the

power of the Word of God to just keep doing its work.

345

00:24:24,992 --> 00:24:31,875

And so from all the way from I don't know if I believe this is true to I want to trust

Christ.

346

00:24:31,875 --> 00:24:39,078

It's taken us probably I mean, depending on who the person is a month to get through this

Bible study.

347

00:24:39,078 --> 00:24:43,620

But in the process of doing so God does an amazing work.

348

00:24:43,620 --> 00:24:46,491

And and people's lives are genuinely transformed.

349

00:24:46,491 --> 00:24:54,176

We watched them walk from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light literally from

the family of Satan to

350

00:24:54,176 --> 00:24:56,762

this transfer into the family of God.

351

00:24:56,762 --> 00:24:57,634

It's beautiful.

352

00:24:57,634 --> 00:24:58,675

It's wonderful.

353

00:24:58,675 --> 00:25:01,596

I every time I do it, I think I just want to go do it again.

354

00:25:01,596 --> 00:25:03,419

Right, yep, amen.

355

00:25:03,419 --> 00:25:08,076

Yeah, I'm getting that itch right now myself being in a new place.

356

00:25:08,076 --> 00:25:15,277

It's time to go make some relationships with unbelievers and my neighbors and start to go

down this road.

357

00:25:15,277 --> 00:25:16,198

358

00:25:16,198 --> 00:25:17,159

isn't it easy?

359

00:25:17,159 --> 00:25:30,019

It's interesting, even in the middle of ministry, it's easy for us to get so swamped with

with duties with responsibilities that we just don't have time in our lives for

360

00:25:30,019 --> 00:25:30,910

unbelievers.

361

00:25:30,910 --> 00:25:39,262

And I we just have to remind ourselves on a regular basis, I need to go connect with

someone who needs Jesus.

362

00:25:39,262 --> 00:25:39,913

Yep.

363

00:25:39,913 --> 00:25:40,484

Yes.

364

00:25:40,484 --> 00:25:42,834

I've been guilty of that for about two months.

365

00:25:42,834 --> 00:25:48,345

So I think I'm now at a point where I've said to myself, you know what?

366

00:25:48,345 --> 00:25:49,085

We're busy.

367

00:25:49,085 --> 00:25:50,196

Everybody's busy.

368

00:25:50,196 --> 00:25:51,136

Life is busy.

369

00:25:51,136 --> 00:25:53,397

It can wait, but this can't wait.

370

00:25:53,397 --> 00:26:00,548

And that's where we have to make decisions as believers and say, you know, I'm not going

to let busyness drown out important things.

371

00:26:00,548 --> 00:26:03,728

I'm not going to let the urgent things drown out the important things.

372

00:26:03,728 --> 00:26:04,956

And we're going to do the important.

373

00:26:04,956 --> 00:26:05,926

things intentionally.

374

00:26:05,926 --> 00:26:13,358

And that's, I think our whole lives as believers, we have to make that decision over and

over and over again for the sake of the gospel, for the sake of Jesus.

375

00:26:13,358 --> 00:26:15,225

We have to go in and be laborers in the harvest.

376

00:26:15,225 --> 00:26:25,366

So we ask you guys to pray with us as we pray to God and ask him for laborers so that he

could send laborers into ours because we know that the harvest is plenteous but the

377

00:26:25,366 --> 00:26:26,638

laborers are few.

378

00:26:26,638 --> 00:26:30,792

So we urge you to keep praying to God that he'd raise up laborers.

379

00:26:30,792 --> 00:26:31,824

We love you guys.

380

00:26:31,824 --> 00:26:32,886

We'll see you next week.