Welcome to Supply Chain now, the number one voice of Supply Chain.

Join us as we share critical news, key insights and real supply chain leadership from across the globe, one conversation at a time.

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be.

Scott Lewton and Richard Donaldson here with you on Supply Chain now.

Welcome to today's Live stream.

Richard, welcome back.

How you doing?

Happy Monday, Scott.

Always a pleasure to be here.

Great way to kick off the day of the week and just ready to get chatting.

There's so much stuff going on here, especially with our guest coming up.

I'm with you and I tell you it's great to have you back.

We had an outstanding episode about a month ago with Romel Watley and we're going to get him back too.

But great to have you back and your perspective always a hit.

And as Trisha says, hey, happy Buzz day.

Say hello.

Let us know where you're watching from.

Thanks for joining us here today.

I completely echo that.

And thanks for Trisha's support, folks.

It's the buzz every Monday at 12 noon Eastern time for years now when I say we've been doing this probably six or seven years now, Richard, we'll have to get the numbers.

But anyway, we discuss a variety of news and developments across global supply chain and business.

And we've got show a jam up show here today, Richard.

We're going to get into key takeaways from the Gartner supply chain top 25.

We're going to answer a question, hey, are US companies quietly boosting their sustainability investments?

We're going to get the status update on digital product passport implementation, dpp.

We're going to get updates on tariffs, especially a key conversation negotiation going.

And we're going to discuss where global trade is headed.

So get your crystal ball ready.

All that and much, much more.

And as you mentioned, Richard, in just a few minutes one of our faves will be back.

Joining us once again, Heidi Benkov, vice president, product management and strategy with Infor Nexus.

Richard, we got an A plus show here today, huh?

Yep, Absolutely.

And I mean, you kind of kick it off here with all the different things that are going on in the world.

I mean the backdrop, you know, it's almost you got to take a break for us to talk about supply chain, supply chain best practices because you can get caught up in all the news of the world right now.

My goodness, every day is a new day.

And even the topics that you've hit on today are being impacted by the global kind of geopolitical landscape that's happening right in front of us in real time.

So that's exciting to kind of bring that all together.

So true.

And as you said in the pre show, we got to give folks, we got to find a way to give more latitude to folks out there in light of all the challenging Vuca environment we're working through.

So.

And we will, folks, we will.

Two things before we get going here today.

First, give us your take in the comments.

Whether you're tuned into via LinkedIn or X or Facebook, Twitch, whatever, let us know what you think.

And secondly, if you enjoy, enjoy the show today, we'd love for you to share it with a friend and your network or maybe Aunt Edna up in Idaho, wherever.

They'd be glad you did.

Okay, Richard, we've got lots of work before we bring in Heidi here today and we're going to be working through four or five news stories there.

We got three things really quick.

First up, check this out.

Look at this picture here, folks.

Kevin L. Jackson couldn't join us today because he's working on this big project.

Kevin's up in Michigan participating in Silent Swarm 2025.

Those are a bunch of unmanned ocean vehicles, folks.

So up there as part of Silent Swarm 25, military and civilian experts from the Air Force, Army, Coast Guard, Marine and Navy are all there to help enable rapid technology development through an open experimentation design model.

Look at Kevin hard at work.

Hard at work.

So folks, get this.

During the exercise, all these folks are getting together to experiment within an operationally relevant environment.

So probably some warfare scenarios, right?

The technological focus is, get this Richard, Electromagnetic spectrum operations, emso those capabilities which can be employed on small multi domain unmanned systems, which is what that first picture was.

So Richard, it is amazing.

It's obviously it's really cool to see.

I like thinking more about how we're deploying technology in to drive economic gains versus war scenarios.

But it is fascinating stuff, isn't it Richard?

Well, so immediately the picture that you dropped there, you start thinking swarm technologies and swarm technologies are the natural kind of evolution of now our use of drones, right?

So it starts with a single drone.

Next thing you know we start multiplying and swarm technology you're starting to see not just in military applications.

Let's think about fireworks programs, right?

I mean when I go to like modern fireworks or stadiums and there you got some drone experts, they create those lighting shows with drones which are now creating these 3D lighting kind of things.

That's a swarm technology right there.

So all of that kind of swarming technology, not just on maritime, but also in aviation because I've touched a couple, I've been training a couple pilots from the Air Force.

And now the new Air Force planes that are coming out, the next generation is going to have a swarm technology built around it where the actual fighter jet becomes like the aircraft carrier kind of the center of attention and the swarm kind of works around it.

I mean, it's, it's wow, you're in a whole different era.

Okay, that just reminds me, we got to get our space supply chain episode on the docket.

So folks, stay tuned.

Richard is a, he is a pilot, a licensed pilot, and I love learning his exploits via those conversations.

And by the way, I like the fireworks on July 4th much, much, much more than the geopolitical potential fireworks that are out there.

But hey, regardless, it's great to see smart, incredible people like Kevin helping to fuel innovation there.

Okay, Richard, we're going to move fast here.

I want to share with folks the latest edition of with that Said, which published over the weekend.

Now folks, in this edition we focus on a few things, including the Starbucks continued turnaround, which has shown mixed results thus far.

You have to dive in to with that said, learn more.

We touched on Karak Jose or one of our faves and the Exeger team, how they're hosting a terrific series of executive forums in London with the next one coming up this week.

On July 23rd, we kick off the release of a bunch of great interviews from my time at SAPEX 2025 in Cape Town.

And as always, we included great resources, tools, live events, you name it, in each edition of with that set.

This version was filled with everything but the great coffee itself.

Richard, did you get a chance to dive into with that set?

Absolutely.

So, I mean, you pick a company that I know a little bit about too.

We all do just daily, right, which is Starbucks and Starbucks use of technology.

And interesting enough, I'm gonna put a shout out here.

Dawn Larson, L A R S E N. If you look her up on LinkedIn, she's actually a former colleague of mine back in the data center days, infrastructure days, she was a senior of Microsoft and she got poached by Starbucks about four or five years ago and she's running technology there and technology strategy.

So I think that's, you know, something to watch as you've got this established brand that's got such a footprint and how are they going to use technology to kind of not only stay relevant?

Now reading it, we were talking about foot traffic and things of that nature.

And my Brain starts to go a little bit beyond that, which is like, can Starbucks evolve into something?

I mean, yes, it's a coffee store, but there's more to it than that.

If I was the brand guy sitting over there, I'm like, yeah, coffee, but there's more around the essence that you want to bring technology together, which is like community conversation.

There's some interesting things that technology could unlock without just making the business more profitable and help the business evolve to stay relevant.

That is an excellent take you've got there, Richard, and it's really fascinating and I applaud Starbucks and new leadership.

I think Brian Nicholl is new CEO there.

I'm pulling for him.

There's massive numbers of Starbucks fans everywhere.

And to your point, how they can transform and uplift and reinvent that Starbucks experience, whether you're, you know, ordering in person or through the drive thru, massive opportunities there.

We'll see where they take it from here, but folks check out.

With that said, Trisha's dropping a link right there.

And give us your take.

Give us your take as well.

Okay, let's see here.

There's one more thing I want to get to here today before we bring on Heidi Binko.

Richard, just like you were just kind of talking about a second ago, you talk and work with leaders across global supply chain every day between your flights and your trainings up there in the sky.

Hey, in all those conversations and that collaboration, what is one key theme or topic that you're seeing business leaders continually struggle with here this year?

So, and it's going to segue into a guest coming up in for and Heidi.

But the idea of circularity, which is not new, but I think it's taking a different emphasis this year because I think it's really kind of becoming now front and center where we've kind of spent a lot of time.

People, companies want to be sustainable, supply chains want to be sustainable.

But the idea of circularity brings so much more forward to the company in not just being economically mindful or ecologically mindful, but also so economically mindful in that you can actually improve results.

Right.

Extend life products.

There's a lot of things that circularity I think is starting to take hold or root.

But it's taken five to 10 years to get here.

Like a lot of new movements take.

So that's kind of the drum that I've been beating for a while.

But I think it's, it's got more emphasis this year than it has before.

Richard, I tend to agree with you.

And although it's easier said than done.

I'm a firm believer that you can do the right thing and that will lead to great things at the bottom of the profit line item there.

So.

And we're seeing to your point.

We're seeing new and powerful ways, innovative ways that companies can do that.

So we're going to have to have a deep dive conversational All Things Circular, which by the way, great podcast hosted by our friends over there.

So check out All Things Circular.

Okay, Richard, we have got a lot to get into here today and we've got a great guest to join us here.

I want to introduce a guest backed by Popper Demand doing big things out in industry.

Heidi Bingo has over 25 years of experience supply chain, product management, solution, strategy and marketing, all of which she has used to deliver innovative supply chain solutions to companies across industries that help them transform their supply chain operations.

So please join me in welcoming Heidi Binko, Vice President of Product management and strategy for M4 Nexus.

Hey.

Hey, Heidi.

How you doing?

Great.

How you doing?

Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

Richard, we are delighted to have Heidi back with us.

Huh?

Absolutely.

This is going to be exciting.

So let's get into it.

Let's get into it.

You know, I can't let the opportunity for a fun one question pass, especially one that's tied to folks.

It's National Junk Food Day here in the States, man.

Parades will be everywhere on this one.

So here's a few did you knows?

Related Krispy Kreme Donuts was founded In Winston Salem, N.C. white Castle, those delicious small burgers, well, that was that opened up first in Wichita, Kansas.

They are capital of the world, as did Pizza Hut.

And while Kentucky Fried Chicken was indeed founded in Kentucky, the first Franchise was founded 1952 in Salt Lake City, Utah.

But that might surprise some folks.

All right, so with all that as a backdrop, Heidi, when you splurge on calories, what is one junk food that's likely the culprit or the cause?

French fries.

And I mean, I could be full and eat like a whole thing of fries on top of it.

So really good french fries and there's plenty of them.

So unfortunately, I splurge a little too often.

I'm with you.

You know, one of our biggest debates we had on this topic of fries is I am a massive McDonald's fry fan and some folks are vehemently against home fries or crinkle fries.

So, Heidi, McDonald's thumbs up or thumbs down.

I don't like them as much anymore.

I don't know.

They changed I don't know.

Okay.

Like the Shake Shack fries they like even when you order them in those things.

So stay perfect like all the time.

All right, folks, in the comments, give us your thoughts.

Thumbs up or thumbs down on McDonald's fries and it's thumbs down.

You let us know your favorite fries out there.

Richard, same question.

When you splurge on some junk food, what's your go to?

Absolutely.

So I'm going to go right with Heidi here.

Although I would never consider French fry a junk food.

It's more of a staple food for me.

So I just want to clarify that, but I'll piggyback on that one.

I'll go with my in and out fries.

But it also depends on when you get them because the in and out fries are fresh cut and serve, you can't let them sit for too long.

Got to eat them fresh out of the fryer kind of thing.

So it's important if we want to get real specific, you know, what type of fry and how quickly are you eating them, because some stay well in the bag, some, most of them don't.

And so who does it?

Who likes soggy fries?

No one likes soggy fries.

No, never.

That's excellent.

Been there, done that commentary.

We're going to have the French fry episode.

Andrew says.

This is Andrew Austin.

He's never had McDonald's.

Andrew, we're going to have to check that out.

And this is.

I bet it's Amanda.

Oh, Heidi.

I have to vehemently disagree.

McDonald's fries are the goat.

I have to agree with that.

Take karako says European McDonald's fries with mayonnaise.

There we go.

Kara.

Kara, great to have you here.

And your ears were burning.

I was talking about an outstanding executive forum that you're hosting on July 23rd and again in September.

So feel free to drop the link, my friend.

Okay, Heidi and Richard, we got so much to get into here today.

I want to start by doing this.

I love this annual research that's published the Gartner supply chain top 25.

I think there's a lot of takes on it, but there's a lot of good conversations that can be had powered by this research.

So as reported by Supply Chain Management Review, Simon Bailey with Gartner, who co authors the top 25, shared some key themes from the 2025 research AgentIC, AI, autonomous operations and water stewardship.

And I'm going to share the iconic pyramid here so folks can get a look at this year's top 25 in the Masters.

But I want to share a couple points on this water stewardship thing, I'm not surprised.

I am surprised.

There's a lot of surprise out across industry that water stewardship is a big common denominator here.

Simon Bailey points out how leading companies such as Denon, Nestle and General Mills are all embedding water stewardship into core operations.

And Bailey says all these companies are not just thinking about how to use water more efficiently, but rather how to replenish water more sustainably and reliably.

And that to me is a lot of good news.

Heid your thoughts?

Yeah, no, definitely.

I was actually pleasantly surprised to see that as such a theme because water scarcity is such an issue and just you know, with the companies we've been working with, you know, for years our customers have been talking about initiatives they've had certainly to reduce the use of water, but hearing more about also companies looking to replenish it.

Right.

So that way, you know, they're actually adding back was actually an interesting insight.

Right, I'm with you, I'm with you.

And of course we're talking about pre show agentic AI.

That's something you're very close to, is probably a second cousin of yours.

I'm sure you're see companies doing some really cool things there.

Your quick comment for us shift over to Richard.

Yeah, I'd love to.

If we looked at last year, if you look at the Gartner top 25 companies were evaluating and even just in general evaluating AI and generative AI.

And this year it shifted from us talking about generative AI to agentic AI and things are evolving extremely quickly.

And something that certainly we see in working with our customers is, you know, Magentic really is what's going to help boost productivity because you're really modeling individual roles.

Right, right.

So and really having you know, someone to be do the work for the human versus just an assistant.

So I definitely see that, you know, changing supply chains.

Right.

And operations dramatically.

Yep, I'm with you.

It is amazing the orchestration stories that, that we have been diving into this year and to see the bottom line big time results and of course a big positive impact on unleashing the human factor, which is one of my favorite parts about that movement.

Richard, back to the Gartner supply chain top 25.

Those key themes or the companies involved.

Your thoughts?

Yeah, So I mean if you look at the top of the pyramid, you got Schneider Electric.

You know, I think they've been leading the last few years.

Right.

And there's a big reason for that because they're so heavily involved in the data center side of the world, JAMA involved in power generation and water, of course, is a key component to the whole cooling aspect of things.

So you know, in the data center world we've been talking about that for the last 25 years because that's a key component to our cooling, our data centers and our power plants.

One thing that I'm going to say is, and Gartner does a great job, but one omission I would say that is is right on the cusp coming out here that Gartner should get into is the role of nuclear power.

Right.

So in a complement when we're looking for regenerative power and this could be controversial, but I can tell you right now that all my data center colleagues are pushing small nuclear packs right.

For most of the data center buildups that are happening.

So I think you're going to see, you know, both water we've had to address, we've not really done a good job on that one.

But I think the whole power thing is truly, in this next couple of years we're going to see a reversion back to nuclear.

And I think that's actually going to be really beneficial in a huge way from a sustainability point of view.

I tend to agree with you.

I think we're entering a whole new chapter for nuclear energy and we're going to have to talk more about that.

But great comments are Richard, Great comments there, Heidi.

And Heidi, just a quick sidebar before I recognize a couple comments here.

For some out there sub technology solutions, AI is a Johnny come lately.

But at infor, I think AI has been a big part of Yalls technology and platform for years now.

Is that right?

Oh, absolutely.

I mean we talk about AI now and everybody's like what's new?

And that's the generative AI and agentic AI.

But certainly we've been using AI for years.

Whether it's machine learning and demand forecasting or machine learning and predictive ETAs and doing optimizations really when you have access to a lot of data, leveraging AI is really how you get greater insights.

And we've been doing that for years.

Yeah, well said, well said.

Okay, so I got to bring in a couple of these comments.

I think this is still Andrew, back to supply chain.

McDonald's has over 20,000 suppliers globally and it looks like he's sharing why he hasn't had those McDonald's fries celiac.

So he doesn't eat anything with gluten in it.

I think That's Andrew.

Hope I'm not violating HIPAA regulations.

But Andrew, thanks for sharing and it really is amazing the McDonald's supply chain ecosystem.

A wise is here from LinkedIn.

Hey, congrats on your new consulting launch and supply chain.

Great to have you here from Pakistan via LinkedIn.

And Kora Johnny on the spot sharing the link if anyone wants to join that executive form coming up that really the series next was coming up on July 23rd.

Great to have you out here from London Karai driving the conversations we need to be having in industry.

Okay, let's see here.

We're going to talk about I think some good news here in this next topic.

We're going to stick with water well partially, maybe a broader sustainability.

So on a related note to what we were just talking about, I want to talk how US Companies may be boosting their sustainability budgets in a stealthy ninja like fashion.

So as reported by ESG Dive conflict sustainability ratings and compliance firm.

Man, that's quite a category.

Conflict sustainability ratings and compliance firm Ecovadis says that its survey of 400 global executives at US corporations with over a billion dollars in revenue shows that several things here, 31% those 400 global executives say their company is investing more into sustainability initiatives in 2025, 48% say their investments haven't changed and 8% say their companies don't want to.

Their sustainability efforts, which some are calling green hushing, that's new term for me.

I'm starting to hear it all.

I think one more data point from the survey, 59% of C Suite executives that participated said that supply chain sustainability helps attract and retain customers.

And that for sure for me is great news to hear.

So Heidi, get your thoughts.

In general, what comes to your mind when you hear these survey responses?

I'm not surprised by it because you know, companies we're working for have all been heavily invested, heavily investing in different sustainability initiatives.

And even with some of the regulations backing down, I know customers like recently with you regulations kind of pushing out, some of our customers are like why did they do that?

Right?

We're already investing, we should move forward to it.

Right.

Because they feel it's the right thing to do and they do see it as a competitive advantage.

Right.

It's something that, you know, consumers want, the market wants and you know, sustainability is also good for the business.

Right.

Better reuse things like that.

So no, I wasn't surprised.

This is great to see the numbers.

Green hushing is the term.

You know, I think something we, you know, was a Lot driven by, you know, companies making claims and having to prove those claims and consumers.

But it's kind of interesting now that it's with the regulations that they're also going quiet, quiet sustainability on that term.

It is interesting.

Heidi, I will say before I go to Richard, it is great to see.

I mean, you know, these are in my view, just in my views to take care of.

Our resources are very finite resources, whether it's water or many others.

This is the right approach to business.

How can we tell the right story out there?

That's always going to be a challenge.

I love seeing.

I think it's very, very encouraging to see these poll responses.

Richard, your thoughts on the survey and what's going on?

I think picking up like we did in the green room, I guess, pun intended there a little bit and then even picking up and riffing on Heidi's comments there.

Thank you.

And greenwashing was new to me as well too.

But I think this, that you got to go back and look at the full spectrum here.

Right.

We're going back to environmental movements.

It's been going on since the mid to late 70s, right when we started getting trash off the road.

So we've had 40, 50 years almost of kind of sustainability movement.

And I think it's, it's always been there lurking around and I think we've kind of had fits and starts.

So I think now in this survey though, and I'm going to go back to circularity.

What's happening though is a transition from environmentalism being a let's hug each other and woo woo and everything's great to oh, wait a second, this actually is a priority for my business longevity, my business profitability and my business continuity.

Because if I'm relying on a natural element that is very scarce and hard to refine, embracing circular concepts allows me to no longer have that supply chain fragility.

Right.

And I think that's now you're kind of giving way to kind of this feel good, you know, which I hate to say it in the, in the corporate world, it's just not going to get that far realistically.

But you tie it to a pragmatic business outcome that is either lowering costs or increasing profitability of which sustainability does both.

That's the new shift in conversation that I think is happening now.

Richard, man, there's so much there to unpack that comment there.

Heidi, I think you were about to say something.

Heidi, before I, I move right along.

Anything you want to respond to?

No, I 100% agree.

It really has shifted.

Right.

Because companies see the benefit.

Right.

Less waste, less usage.

Right.

Recycling, all of that.

So there's it's, you know, when company, it's not a trade off.

Sustainability and cost.

Right.

Well said.

And Richard also mentioned the other term green washing, green hushing.

Who knows what's going to come next?

T Squared, who holds down the Fort Force on YouTube says greenwashing is just gaslighting for consumers.

That's one takeout there, T Squared, hope this finds you well in Baltimore.

And Kara is still the Newark Airport, not London yet.

The guys didn't want him to make it just yet.

Hey, airports are overloaded right now.

Right.

But safe travels to you, Karai and T Squared, great to have you here as always.

Okay, I want to share a breath of fresh air, folks.

I want to take a brief pause from all the news analysis we're diving into.

Y' all gotta check out this event, grab one of our faves back, invite all of our global community to join us for the next installment of our popular series we call the Bridge.

Folks, in today's fast moving, high stakes environment filled with uncertainty, leadership demands more than just operational excellence and execution.

It requires courage, actionable creativity and a pioneering spirit and a capability to overcome the naysayers.

Hey, all you out there, experience driving change.

It's tough, huh?

In this special edition of our ongoing series, the Bridge, join us for a powerful conversation with Regine Vale, Senior Vice President and Chief Supply Chain Officer at Ochsner Health, based down there in New Orleans.

We're going to be exploring how to unleash your inner pioneer, how to transform how you lead.

And folks, if you don't know, if you're one of three folks out there don't know.

Regine is a Supply chain hall of famer.

She's widely recognized as a trailblazer in healthcare supply chain innovation.

And you're going to love learning from her.

So join us this coming Friday, July 25th at 12 noon Eastern Time.

Really quick aside, Richard and Heidi, in this environment, you know, to truly challenge how business has always been done, we got to find our inner courage and fearlessness to drive change.

And, and you know, that's certainly easier said than done.

Heidi, you're nodding your head.

Would you agree with that?

Absolutely.

Everything's changing.

You can't keep running your business and supply chains the way that you did.

Right.

So you have to force change.

You have to evolve and quickly.

Right.

The rate of change is that the.

Challenge isn't hard enough just to drive change.

To your point, Heidi, we got to do it like overnight.

Richard, your thoughts?

I was going to say, yeah.

You know, it's tough for me to keep myself contained here.

So I'm trying, I'm trying hard.

But Heidi touched on something that I want to kind of double back on, which is even from her perspective, uniquely.

Right.

25 years at Infor and you've seen what I'll dive right to is the rate of change has been constantly increasing to the point that you could kind of hold off changes 30 years ago, 40 years ago, 50 years ago.

But now if you can't embrace change, that is a competitive disadvantage.

Right?

Totally.

And that's a, that's a whole new part of the consulting practice that I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

You must be, I mean, I guess I don't put words your mouth but I would think is like now part of the leading.

It's not like you have to, it's like you need to learn to change as a muscle.

It has to be part of your core organization.

How do you face that?

Yeah.

And I think, you know, companies are looking for, you know, from being a software vendor looking for guidance on how do we do this faster.

Right.

Can't be these big long implementations.

Right.

To meet all the new, today's requirements that how do you get up and running faster?

How do you listen to best practices?

And there's a lot of cross functional alignment.

So that's changing org structure.

So it's still not a slam dunk.

Right.

And I think every company is a little bit different.

Is there someone that's driving the change agent and some that are a little more resistant.

But I think that's, I think we're going to see that change and more companies embrace it.

That's kind of where I'm headed with it too.

Right.

Having been a part of that, my own career in Silicon Valley and watching this as an entrepreneur, one of the things I learned is, you know, no one tells you as an entrepreneur that everyone's going to hate you for changing anything.

They're going to embrace you when you're successful, but they're going to hate you as you're starting to change everything.

Right.

And that's the worst undercover part of change is it's for us even on the phone here, we'll nod our heads and go, yeah, let's change.

But try to get people to do it.

Yeah, right.

Try to get companies to do it.

And it is the hardest thing in the world.

But you can't resist the change anymore.

The technology is changing too much.

I mean, AI now in the last five years went from it's a little machine learning thing to now it's a full blown component, it's a partner.

Now that change alone changed coding entirely.

Like the coding stack and the AI stuff is evolving so fast.

It's changing constantly.

Right?

That is evolving at a pace that's, it's incredible.

I feel like every other month having a different discussion on, okay, now what.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Every other month we don't even know.

What we don't know, which is how fast it's going to learn and adapt.

That's an interesting part of the change that we have to be ahead of.

Well, what I would argue.

Great thoughts to both of y', all.

But what I would argue.

And folks, you got to join us on July 25th to prove out this point.

But if you think it's tough driving change in global supply chain, try in the health care industry where oftentimes it can be life and death.

And there's a lot of, you know, I don't want to pick on health care, but I've been in health care previously.

There can be a lot of, for safety reasons, clinging to how we've always done things because those processes and platforms and approaches are proven.

So it can be even more challenging to drive change and to complicate that further, we know we've got to transform health care because of the sheer demand and where that's going, like proverbial hockey stick.

So join us, Join us.

We got the link right there for this great episode and powerful discussion coming up this Friday.

And T Squared going to goes back to change.

In the words of the great Greg White.

He's paraphrasing here.

If businesses don't evolve, they won't die, but they will surely perish.

Good stuff there, T Squared.

That was a great Greg White ism.

And Kara, thanks for your kind comments about the Bridge.

It's been a very rewarding series for us this year.

Outstanding conversations enjoyed.

Korai and General John.

John Allen joined us earlier this month or last month.

Okay, we got a lot more to get to.

Heidi and Richard, y' all ready?

There's just too much.

It's like we're in a supply chain candy store and we want to talk about it all.

We're on the whole afternoon.

Right.

This is not.

That's right.

Bonus episode, 3 hour version of the Buzz.

All right, so let's get back to news.

I want to talk about digital product passports.

So as reported by the Sourcing Journal, there's still hope across the European Union that digital product passports will be much more of a reality in the months ahead, maybe the years ahead.

DPPs, yes, new acronym DPPs help brands share detailed information on their products, Material makeup, origin, carbon footprint.

They can even offer instructions for end of the product life cycle and what to do with that product.

EU regulators approved the Eco Design Energy Labeling Working Plan 2025-2030.

That was impressive.

We have to hire some real help, some real talent here to share this stuff.

They approved this working plan, formal working plan, back in April.

Stay with me here.

So according to that plan, those EU regulators see big benefits in implementing DPPs, especially in the textiles and apparel sectors.

And they see, quote, according to article from Sourcing Journal, quote, high potential to improve product lifetime extension, material efficiency and to reduce impacts on water waste generation, climate change and energy consumption, end quote.

Some say that regulation and material provenance priorities are key drivers for a resurgence in DPP implementation, at least in Europe, where the regulatory environment, of course, is much different than here in the us at least for now.

So, Heidi, when it comes to DPPs, digital product passports and the movement we're seeing here, your thoughts?

Yeah.

So, you know, recently like we, we were just talking about regulations and quiet sustainability, things like that.

Well, a lot of the regulations have pushed back.

So the question was, well, are the digital product passport still going to be implemented within the required timeframe, which kicks in in 2027, right.

For I think the core industries, textiles, batteries, consumer electronics and a couple others, that means you actually have to have digital product passports in place in 2027.

And that's significant undertaking because all those things you just talked about are part of that product passport.

So when I go to a store and I scan a shirt and it tells me where it was made, right?

What the contents are, what was the usage, like you said, water, et cetera, you know, tracking that supply chain, all those data points that have to go and be collected from the various points in supply chain is quite significant.

So it's a pretty aggressive timeline.

So, you know, just like where some of the other ones kind of backed off, this one's still moving.

And companies need to understand to connect their supply chains and get all that data takes time.

So we've seen the last couple years since, well, not last couple years since the kind of timeline was fully announced that it will kick in in 2027.

Companies started to move quickly.

Right.

And that's a significant shift to go from just reaching out to your tier one, tier two and tracing your supply chain.

So it's one of the key regulations driving that.

Well said, Heidi.

Man, a lot of shifting sands coming up.

Richard, your thoughts?

So again, Heidi and I clearly have shared the same thoughts, even though we're only meeting for the first time.

So I'm going to riff again off her on this one and say that for me, digital product passports and digital twins are kind of the same thing, right?

Whether it's the new act, what's the new acronym of the day, but underneath the covers, what we're talking is what Heidi was kind of going towards is the digital representation of the global supply chain.

And Scott, if you remember that chart back in the circular Supply Organization circular strategy group out of the Netherlands, okay.

Does the annual circular gap report, right.

And they've got that chart that shows all the details of the hundred billion tons of stuff out of the earth that we got as a National Geographic of all things article from, from years ago.

To me, that's always been the end result.

We need to be able to track everything from the point of mining through refining, through ultimately the circularity.

Like, that's always been my goal.

That's always been the vision.

I don't think it's anyone's like, oh my God.

But it's like just the right way to go.

And so everything we're talking about is just a movement in that direction, right?

Including ironically, the greening of everything.

Right.

Because it's all going to wrap into circularity.

Right.

It's how we use these things efficiently, extend their lifespan and prolong the use of the fixed cells and assets and molecules we have on this planet.

Right.

At a very, very high level.

So I believe.

And there's another part of this puzzle which you touched on earlier, which is the shifting political landscape of manufacturing and insuring that is also forcing this conversation to happen sooner because people are putting this off.

It is hard work.

Heidi said it, it's expensive, it's intrusive.

It's like, how do I go in and do open heart surgery in every cell of my body, right.

And keep the body functioning.

It's not just no one organ, it's the whole thing.

And it's every cell that I want to track.

So that's hard.

But now when I do believe, you're going to see and tariffs are causing this and we're going to get to that.

But it's, you know, ensuring or the entire manufacturing landscape is shifting to the point that you actually have an opportunity now to apply these passports or this digital twinning where we didn't before.

Because we are going to be doing open heart surgery, right.

We are cracking the patient all the way down to the point of the elements we're pulling out of the earth.

That's a time.

So it's just timing right now I think we've got really good timing.

If you bring all those elements together, it's unique, but to Heidi's point, and she can talk to this, you know, she's got to go out and tell these companies to just not only consult them, but push them to go do it.

And that's the hard part, right.

Even though the opportunity is right there.

So, I mean, I don't even know how you do that, Heidi.

How do you get them to actually take action?

Because to your point, it's a few minutes ago.

How do you get people and companies to change?

Yeah, I think the regulations are driving a lot of that change, right.

You now need to have that data or you cannot sell your products into the eu.

Right.

You know, and traceability, we even like in the US there's uflpa, right?

If you can't prove that chain of custody, you can't bring the goods in.

So we're seeing that need to understand that extended supply chain, right.

And eudr, the deforestation regulation that goes in at the end of the year.

So even though some of these other regulations are kind of going pushing back, there are these other ones that you have to understand the parties and how the processes are and that extend the supply chain.

Maybe in a way just to double click on that again, is maybe we're opening up the cord here through that change, right into digital passports, into that manufacturing, into that inshoring, right?

Where it allows us now to kind of put in that digital infrastructure where we couldn't before.

Right?

And that's sort of a new opportunity that you can take advantage of.

And I'm not sure you've.

Do you see that now?

I mean, I think the key is digital to your point, right?

So supply chains, particularly when it's connecting to external parties, there's still a lot of paper.

Yeah, yeah.

And floating around.

And that's one of the things with the product passports and the regulations now it has to become data, all that ESG data and everything.

So now you have to turn it to data and using different technologies to do that.

So, folks, it deserves its own week long edition of the Buzz Dive into this topic, but shifting sands partially due to coming regulations.

But you know, that's not all bad because I think in some ways the information that will be provided via technology like DPP is not only will empower the consumer to make smarter decisions, but it'll also empower industry leaders to do something about some really big issues that we have that oftentimes are kind of pushed aside while we drive transactions.

So more to come on this.

And if you want to learn more about digital product passport and the status, check out the link we just dropped right there in the chat.

A lot of stuff going on in this regard.

Now, Heidi and Richard, I'm going to talk about next, the most popular topic.

Okay, not popular, but one of the topics we've got, we've got to tackle.

And that's what's the latest with tariffs and overall trade landscape.

And I want to dial in on one element of that because there's so many moving pieces when it comes to the negotiations between the US and the European Union on a new trade deal.

The White House says August 1st is a hard deadline to have a deal in place to avoid a 30% baseline tariff tariff on all EU products.

The EU is reportedly hoping to get a deal in place similar to what the US struck with the United Kingdom with largely a 10% baseline tariff.

Of course, there's exceptions, all this stuff, but the European Council reports that total trade between the US and the EU amounted to almost $2 trillion in 2024.

Man, big stakes.

The Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg are reporting that due to the state of negotiations between the two massive parties, well, it's been fueling more EU member states that want to deploy the organizations the EU's anti coercion instrument, which is essentially, as I can understand it, a nuclear option for trade.

It reportedly allows the EU its most powerful trade tool that will allow for the strongest retaliatory measures against the U.S. if this grand compromise is not reached.

Okay, Heidi, I try to be really practically optimistic and certainly constructive, but there's a lot going on.

Your thoughts here when it comes to this tariff environment?

I mean, to your point, there's a lot going on in this environment and it's all about the negotiations, you know, and what starts, whether it's, you know, on this side imposing tariffs.

You know, it's got to be what's best for each region, each country.

Right.

So it'll be interesting to see where everything ends up.

One quick follow up to that before I get Richard's comments.

There is, and I think all of this I'm gonna probably state something simple and maybe obvious, but I'd love to get your thoughts on it are part of the impetus why we've got to lean on technology.

So that not only can we react faster because we're industry is kind of getting put in a reactive mode because, you know, things change day by day, but there are some great proactive opportunities as well.

We got to lean on technology to help us best navigate and most profitably and successfully navigate this VUCA environment, huh?

Absolutely.

You have to understand where you're sourcing from today and your options in the future.

What's the impact of tariffs?

You know, simulate the various options.

And then like we talked about, there's a lot of processes that are still inefficient.

How do you reduce costs?

Right.

By leveraging technology.

So it's a good time to embrace technology to better manage and orchestrate your supply chain and at the best cost.

Yes, that's right.

Richard, you're nodding your head.

Your thoughts on tariffs or technology or the whole shebang?

The whole shebang.

Don't say that, Scott.

Be careful what you wish for.

So tariffs in particular, and I think this is another one to me, and I'm not just discounting it, but in a way it's a bit of noise.

It's an artificial means in my world to affect global economic outcomes between, you know, economic trading partners.

Okay, fine, that's a lot to say.

But at the end of the story, at the end of the day, if you had a perfectly, you know, supply and demand around the world, you know, where you source your materials from, your manufacturing from, you know, it'd be impacted on the distance that you have to ship that stuff.

And so the natural supply and demand and cost structures should kind of equal themselves out on a pure global basis if the whole market was just even, and tariffs would be immaterial at that point.

And so we're in sort of a weird period where we're playing these political games and it ends up consuming a lot of our cycles.

But I think if I peel the curtain back a little bit, what I'm more interested in is the outcome of the insuring of manufacturing and how that's going to affect the global supply chain or the circular supply chain in time.

Right.

Tariffs to me are going to give way to where I source my materials from, how I source those materials, and whether they're virgin materials or circular materials, both of which are going to have more impact than tariffs ever will on how goods flow around the planet.

And I think as the planet gets closer and closer and closer, this whole short term tariff discussion is just going to be like, oh, I was kind of silly back in the day, you know, 50 years from now, people gonna look back on this like, well, that was kind of stupid what they dealt with.

They were so naive and immature.

But yes, it's, it's a hot topic right now.

But I think if you pay attention on what really matters is where the raw materials, where are they coming from and how they actually being mined, refined and manufactured, that's going to have more impact in the next couple of years.

Richard, I like your take.

And will we look as simplistic and simpleton as you suggest when the folks 50 years in the future look back on what we're doing?

I hope not.

But I'll tell you one thing, I'll tell you one thing, if, if they can't strike a deal, it is going to create.

Even if this too shall pass.

I love that saying, there will be a lot of immediate and short term heartburn.

And gosh, we're complaining now about the uncertainty in all of its different variations.

When you think of like the Baskin Robbins version of uncertainty, because we're seeing it in all kinds of different ways, I'm hoping that we get a grand compromise and we get a little bit of our ability to project the future, at least in certain areas.

Short term future.

We'll see.

Heidi, you get your last comment here before we move on.

Yeah, just I guess doubling down on your point on uncertainty.

Right.

That's been the thing.

I mean, companies just have been able to act because of the uncertainty.

Right.

We're talking about this today.

What's it going to be tomorrow or in two weeks?

So can't make decisions on where to source from and what to do until things have kind of stabilized.

Right.

That's true.

I hate to use hypotheticals, but, but you know, I almost wish, and I am no economist, I am not an international trade guru, but almost would wish there was a grand 10% tariff on all relationships that was issued with a defined time period, you know, months ago.

Because I think that layer of certainty, even if businesses wouldn't like it and trading partners will, you know, all that stuff.

But that would, going back to your point, Richard, that would allow businesses that do want to leverage reshoring and new production and changing some of their supply bases, it give them this certainty to make that decision.

But rather than that, we've got dozens of parallel negotiations going on that's changing almost, it feels like hour by hour, which is rolling up into this indigestion, levels of uncertainty that I think a lot of business leaders and supply chain leaders are feeling.

But I guess I got to be careful What I wish for, I think.

One of the things that I'm going to go back to what we've been talking about, which is change.

Literally this whole thing that we're talking about is just a changing of the macroeconomic landscape.

Right.

That has developed since post World War II, which isn't that that long ago.

When you think about this Post World War II and the economic landscape that we see today that the tariffs are trying to upend has been the same system that got locked into a certain trade routes, trade agreements, trade negotiations, that now, whether you like or dislike it, is trying to be dislodged.

That's all that's happened.

Right.

And so at the end of the day, it's funny because we're sitting here talking about how to embrace change.

Well, this is just change.

We're just changing the macroeconomic landscape and everyone's having a conniption over it.

And it's like, well, shit, how are we supposed to do this, this unless we want to change it?

We know it's not working the way it is.

The status quo is not nearly as efficient as it should be.

So this is like human civilization having to change all en masse.

And it's still really hard.

It is.

It is.

Well said.

Okay, I'm gonna move us along.

I want to pose a big question to Heidi and get Richard's response here in just a second.

I'm gonna have to do the time, folks.

There's a great, in my view, a great read here that I want to put on your radar.

And it comes to us from the World Economic Forum and we're not gonna have time to dive into it here today.

But folks, you ought to check it out.

It's one person's take.

Sky Miller, chief market strategist and economist at Zurich Insurance, who's offering up his take on where global trade is today and where it's heading.

And I would recommend it as good reading.

So we'll drop that link in the comments here as we get to the next topic.

So a couple quick comments here.

Let's see.

Hey, Tomcat, appreciate that.

Great show as always, gang.

Tomcat.

I'm looking forward to that supply chain haiku that you always deliver as you hold down the fort force on Twitch A. Weiss says change is the only constant.

So true.

I think.

This is Andrew once again, I believe, who says the UK supermarket chains such as Marks and Spencer supply chain failed not only due to poor cyber security hygiene across the supply chains, but poor investment in technology going back to what Heidi and Richard were Saying earlier, all good having a great supply chain, but if you don't invest in the integrity of it, you will fail.

Well said, Andrew.

And I do agree with you.

And as I mentioned that we dropped that World Economic Forum story right there.

Thanks Tricia for sharing that.

Y' all give me your thoughts on that if you have an opportunity and an interest.

Okay, Heidi, you know, Richard just kind of gave wove history and economic trends and supply chain policy all in his last response.

I kind of want in a similar vein, I bet you've seen a lot in your 25 years of moving mountains in global supply chain.

Would you share some of your observations in terms of how tech needs for multi enterprise business networks have been shifting your thoughts there, Heidi?

I mean I'll just go with the rate of change and requirements in the past couple years, right.

So we just talked about ESG and data, right?

So now I have to get all this data.

That's additional information about my supply chain and ESG information and now supply chains.

When you talk about multi enterprise business networks, I have to connect, connect multiple tiers of suppliers to meet all these regulations.

That's a tremendous amount of connections, right?

Multi enterprise business networks, that's what we do is connect supply chain parties, provide visibility, collaboration and execute processes.

But now it's across multiple tiers.

And if you think about how it is to get data from each party, right, to have each tier have to go re key in data to different systems, right?

That doesn't work.

So that's where it's kind of this great timing where technology is advancing at a speed to support all these regulations and requirements.

So leveraging we talked about AI and AI is a way to get all that data from all those parties a lot faster, right?

So if I talk about digital product passport, it has to be digital, it has to be data.

And instead of having companies, you know, send paper documents, PDFs or re key in data, we're using large language models to get data out from their systems to make that easier, right?

And so now you can actually do all that traceability.

So when we see the trends and shifts in multi enterprise supply chains, it's about how do you connect to all those various tiers to make it easier, provide that visibility and get that data in faster.

And then all the network insights, everything we were talking about with making those sourcing decisions and changes and the impacts of tariffs and simulating that, we need all that supply chain data.

So how do you make it data and get insights from that faster?

And then when you have all that supply chain data and the network data and that's where the majority of supply chain data is.

It's with those network partners.

You need access that to see what's really going on to get ahead of disruptions.

And you know, if you talk about leveraging AI and agentic AI, all that user productivity and seeing all the end to end data.

To make better decisions.

Yes.

To make better decisions or maybe even automate decisions.

Yes.

Our teams don't have to make as many and it just happens while we're sleeping even one other thing I heard there, Richard, I'm get you to comment.

When we do all those things that Heidi mentioned which are very, you know, we don't do things because they're easy, we do things because they're hard.

Kind of little riff off of what JFK said because it's very challenging, especially across the ecosystem.

But when we make strides there, I've seen it where it really fuels operational trust across the ecosystem.

And that's when you can really do some really special things, especially of course for the customer, but also for your supply base.

Right.

Strengthen those relationships which can lead to all sorts of innovations.

But Richard, what'd you hear there from Heidi or what's your own comments when it comes to how multi enterprise network platforms and their technologies are evolving?

I've read Heidi's work.

I mean she's been at it, she's at the forefront of it.

So she sees it firsthand.

Right.

So her insights are not just, you know, theoretical.

It's like the real application of what these businesses are doing.

It has always been the digitization, the digital twin.

That's what I'm saying.

This goes back, you know, 20 years now at this point with the rise of the Internet itself.

But one thing that I'd kind of loop into this one that is sort of a bit of a game changer in this whole process is the 3D printing and how that's going to affect this whole supply chain digitization.

Because from the get go, with a 3D printer, I have now created at the very onset of materiality, the development of materiality into my supply chain.

I can now embed trackable pieces in that 3D printing process in a way that allows me now for end to end.

Everything we're talking about envisioning with the ushering in of 3D printing, I can actually do that from the very beginning versus trying to like map things from when I pull things out of the earth, Iron ore and things of that nature would be.

We're still Gonna have to figure out how to do.

But honestly, I view the future a little bit, that even our refining process is gonna be more 3D printed, refined in a way less about kind of smelting iron ore down and having sheets of metal and crap like that.

Like, that's gonna go away and then next 10 years.

Right.

So I'm kind of looking forward a little bit and saying we're sort of at the cusp of being able to truly digitize the supply chain where the legacy supply chain using the earth mining and refining processes are going to give way to this 3D printed world.

That, to me, is when the digital, true digital twin supply chain is going to exist.

I like your vision there, Richard.

And Heidi, I'm going to give you the last comment before I add a little personal anecdote to something he shared.

Heidi, would you largely agree with.

With the bold vision of the future that Richard sees?

That is a bold vision.

I like it because, you know, the whole thing, you can manufacture, direct track, reuse.

So that's a great way to look at it versus, you know, going and mining and reusing all the earth's resources.

I agree.

Okay, well, you mentioned 3D printing, Richard.

And before we wrap here today, Heidi and Richard and all the folks out there, My son Ben and I went to the Atlanta Comic Con event over the weekend.

It was my first time ever.

Ben's a big old comic book fan, big superhero fan.

He was like in.

In heaven.

It was really cool to see.

But to your point about 3D printing, Richard, perhaps the coolest thing I saw, and there's thousands of people there.

You got Hollywood stars, you got exhibitors.

I mean, it's amazing.

Took a whole hall in the Georgia World Congress Center.

The coolest thing I saw was this guy that built an Iron man costume, and it had working moving pieces and all.

It was incredible.

And every single piece was 3D printed, and it was amazing.

I have to find the image.

But anyway, it's amazing where we are technology wise, what we can do today.

Just, you know, going back to Heidi, something you mentioned, and with agentic AI, just sheer progress we've made into operationalizing that today versus where we were a year ago.

That is really some good news.

But I want to thank you both.

Heidi Binko with Infor Nexus.

It's so great to see you for a second at Gartner Symposium down in Orlando.

So great to have you back with us here.

Thanks for being here, Heidi.

How can folks connect with you?

Yep, definitely.

Go ahead.

Please reach out to me on LinkedIn.

You can also reach me my email heidi benco@inforinf o r.com so it's just that easy.

And folks, we're dropping Heidi's LinkedIn profile right there.

So do that and follow her, connect with her, you name it.

Big thanks for you being here and Richard Donaldson, and both of y' all brought it here today as I knew you both would.

Richard, how can folks connect with you when you're not flying around in the beautiful skies above Arizona?

Same, same LinkedIn for me.

Just go to my LinkedIn Richard Donaldson.

I think it's on the show.

So easy place to get me and respond to that almost in real time.

Or try.

Outstanding.

We're dropping Richard's LinkedIn right there.

One last thing for a wrap here today, folks.

If you enjoyed today's conversation, I thought Heidi and Richard were rock stars.

But find and subscribe Supply Channel wherever you get your podcast.

And please, please, if you missed Friday's edition of the Bridge, you are going to really regret it.

So join us there.

But that's where I've got to leave it.

Big thanks to Heidi and Richard, of course.

Big thanks to Amanda and Trisha behind the scenes.

Really appreciate what they do every single day.

Most importantly, big thanks to our global audience for being here with us.

Loved all the great comments that we couldn't hit all of them, but really appreciate you being here.

But folks, you got homework.

Take one thing that Heidi or Richard shared and put it into practice.

Share it with your team.

Deeds, not words.

That's how we're going to keep transforming how global supply chain happens.

And with all that said, on behalf of your Supply Chain now team, Scott Luden, challenge you do good.

Give forward.

Be the change that's needed.

We'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now.

Thanks for buying.

Join the Supply Chain now community.

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