00:00:00 Sana: If you have ever said this time, this is the time I'm going to stick to it. And then watched life happen. This episode is for you listeners. Let's start with the truth.

00:00:19 Sana: Most people don't say out loud. Change isn't hard because we are lazy. It's hard because we are human. I mean, most of us have tried to force new behavior onto an old system. You know, from today onwards, I'm going to do this. From today onwards. I'm going to, uh, sleep early, wake up early. Um, all stress, all identity, all environment, all expectations. But then today on this blend, we're talking about what it actually takes to make that change stick, not in theory, but in a motivational poster way, but in real life, when you are busy, capable, and still stuck in the one place you can't seem to move. And listeners, my guest, Stacey McAlpine, life change strategist and CEO of June Fuel. Now she spent twenty five plus years leading complex transformations inside big, massive organizations using methods that are basically the industry standard for delivering results. And then she did something interesting. She turned those same methods on herself because personal development often asks for willpower, not structure. And now she helps accomplished professionals figure out what what's actually holding them back often not what they think, and replace guesswork with strategic execution. So let's get started with this interesting discussion. And Stacey, welcome to this plan. And I'm really, really excited.

00:02:02 Stacy McAlpine: Thank you. I'm really excited to be here. I'm a big nerd on the topic. So anytime I have an opportunity that to help people on this, I know I needed it many times in my life, so I'm happy to be here.

00:02:14 Sana: Of course, of course. One thing I really appreciate, Stacey, you definitely realize that you have to practice what you preach and that is something you know, and it's kind of unnatural sometimes. We, we, we love to share or we love to, um, advise, consult others, but then there are times when we don't, don't, um, abide by those, right? Okay. Stacey, your your audience, I mean, um, your audience is smart, successful, accomplished. But then they are still stuck in one area that matters. TT um, why do you think. And then what's the real reason in there that your change doesn't stick for people who can actually, I mean on paper in, in, uh, you know, in the work life also. I mean, they, they are great executors in there.

00:03:10 Stacy McAlpine: I mean, the reason why I started turning what I did for clients that were big organizations onto myself was because I noticed that as a change maker, uh, in consulting, you know, companies would pay literally millions of dollars to bring teams in to help them make change. And so you don't mess around and hope it works, right? There's a, there's a standard that's used by practitioners that get specifically certified in. How do you make change happen in companies on the people side of change? And the project management side is kind of the tactical side. So that what the people side of change. What's interesting about that is there's knowing what to do, and then there's actually getting people to do it. And It requires certain things in a certain sequence. And that's why when I said, I'm a nerd about this, I love systematizing. I love things that when you know how to do it, you trust that that process is going to work, that it's not. Maybe I hope this works, but you know, that that method, that that system, if you just apply that, you know, you're going to get to the finish line. It helps when you're hitting those bumps in the road or you feel like something's off, you know exactly how to get back on because you know the system works if only you do it right. And so in personal development, again, self-admitted nerd and in the nicest of ways for everybody out there who also is the the sponge. You know, I was in seventh grade with my first Covey planner writing seven habits, right? Um, just as somebody who likes to make change, who likes to improve things, there's always a way that we could do that in our own lives, right? It's kind of like a process in our own lives. So it's parallel in terms of how to make change happen. It's the same thing in personal lives as it is in companies, because it all comes down to do. People do what needs to happen in order to deliver the result. You can create the best process, you can create the best plan. But if the individuals that need to apply it in order for change to happen, and to this point we were talking about before, is how do you make it stick? There are certain things that need to happen in advance to pull that off. So when I was doing this for companies and had learned how to do this over and over, no matter what, you know, using an industry term scope, right? What, what the elements of the purpose of it is, could range from putting in a new IT system to standing up the Defense Center of Excellence for psychological Health and traumatic brain injury. I've done everything in between. And so it works. It's not that I know how to do either of those things, but I know how to put in place and elicit details that are required in order to get so people can be successful along those paths to get the result they want. So when I wasn't getting change in my own life, I mean, I think everybody, you know, I just turned fifty, which was, you know, I'm kind of excited and just deciding that this is going to be great. Um, and it's, you've, you've, uh, you've experienced some stuff. I'm sure everybody who's listening, somebody, especially once you're in your late thirties, you hit your forties and your fifties, you've definitely experienced some stuff and not being able to change those things all the time. But how do we make the next step happen? How do we get ourselves out of that? Or how do we get so that we like the decision we're making next and get to where we want to be? I wasn't able to get myself in motion. I had ideas of what I wanted, but I wasn't getting myself to get results. So I thought, well, I'm just going to pretend I'm like an organizational client of mine and apply what I do for them to myself. And that's really when I got my mojo. That's when I started to get emotion. And because it works, it's a, it's logical, it's formulaic. And if you follow the steps, you're going to get the results, which is why I'm so passionate now about why I started my company journey fuel is I now apply that to individuals because I feel like that was really missing in the personal development space and personal development. Get to know ourselves and we get to know what we want. We know what we don't want. And then it's tailoring the solution to our very busy, very active, very autopilot a lot of times likes. So how do you stop doing all these things that you are a busy person doing to yourself and get yourself to do it differently can be a big challenge. So what I applied and this is for everyone here, you don't have to memorize this. This is just to give context to why this works. But there's a, an acronym that's used in the change management world called Adkar. Horrible acronym. I've thought a number of times, can't we just fix the words that go with it? But the acronym makes sense. It's awareness, desire, knowledge, ability and reinforcement. And so each of those are sequential. So it's kind of like for those of you who are familiar with maturity models, it's like there are different levels of evolution or maturity stages that you can get to. And in order to get to certain stages, you need to complete the stage before to have the skills and the knowledge and the and the expertise to be able to handle the next one. Right. Or to be able to do the next one easily. It's kind of like that. So while awareness, we can have some awareness or we can have some knowledge, or maybe we're even trying to reinforce a change. If any of those other elements have holes in them, at some point it's going to implode. It's just how it works. So I'm happy to explain what that is, if you like. Um, without, you know, dominating the conversation. But that, that's pretty much what I do is I apply that model to identify where people are at in that stage so that you can complete that stage. So you're ready for the next one so that you can be successful all the way through the process.

00:09:44 Sana: No, please, please go ahead, Stacey. But, um, this is something actually, I was honestly not not aware of, of, uh, especially in the, in the business government context in a model the car model. Um, but the kind of, uh, the fact that, um, we kind of reverse reverse engineer it or kind of, you know, flipped because you knew how it works for, you know, how it works for the companies, for the organizations, for leaders and the teams and everything. But then how does it work at an individual level? Because, you know, that's where I think the personal and the professional lives brilliantly kind of blend with each other.

00:10:30 Stacy McAlpine: For sure. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and for those, my understanding is a lot of your listeners are entrepreneurs or business owners, you know, professionals that have been been at this for a while or just getting started. And it's very easy to, um, want something and get in motion and then other pressures start to come into play. And if you don't have a path of how to stay on course, it's easy to get distracted and go other ways, right? But so I'll just focus on adcos. So add car from an awareness perspective, that is the number one most important. If you don't have that, the rest of it starts to, it doesn't really matter. So when I work with my clients, whether it was an organization or as an individual, same thing, I do not work with them until they're very clear on what the awareness stage is, because it doesn't matter how much knowledge you have, it doesn't matter how good you are at something if it's not for the right reason, or if you don't really know why you're doing it, then you could be doing the wrong thing, right? Putting all this energy. It just doesn't. And it's like every other quote unquote solution out there is you want to just get started. But if you don't have full awareness of why does this even matter? Is this a change that I even want to make? Or is it a should? Right? Is do a should test, you know, does this even matter to me? Um, does this change need to even happen in order to get the result I want? So awareness is the most important to know. And before you ever get started without it, nothing else really matters. So granted, you need each of the other pieces as you go, but this one is going to set the stage and can immediately save you a ton of time and effort and energy. So in awareness, what that means is, you know and have accepted that in order to get a result that you want, change needs to occur and that you understand what that is like, that a change does need to happen because there is a result that if you want that result, you can't get it by doing the same thing. So that's awareness and what I really focus on and what everyone here can relate do to themselves even is do you know why you want to make this change in the first place? What is the reason? And here's where it can get, um, misapplied or not really answer what awareness is, is if you say, oh, because, you know, we want to put in a new IT system. Well, it's not the it. Why do you want to put in the it? Why do you want to put in this new system? Because it's hard to do what we're doing. Well, okay, but what is it the ultimate result you want? We want to be able to invoice customers faster so that we can get paid sooner. So we have cash flow so we can deliver our business. That's the desired outcome. Can we do that if we can't invoice our clients? No. Can we do that in a way that's going to benefit us without delay unless we make an inherent system change? No. So that's when you say, okay, so if we can't have that result without making this change, does that really matter to us? Is that going to make a difference? And if it does that now, you've passed the test, right? Now you're into desire. So if you it comes down to what is the actual result, the impact you want. So if you're going to apply that to your life, it's kind of like a lot of times something we can all relate to. I want to lose ten pounds. Okay. Why? Because I don't like how I feel. Well, how do you want to feel? Instead, I want to feel proud. I want to feel confident. I want to feel healthy. I want to feel energized. So that's the outcome. Not that you want to lose weight. It's that you want to feel energized. It's that you want to feel confident it won't make you right. So there's you could see the difference. It feels like a nuance, but it's it's huge because when you start to get stuck and you think about, well, why am I doing this? It's just because I can, you know, fit into a dress. Well, that's not going to motivate you to keep going. But if it's if I don't do this, I won't be able to fit into that dress. If I can't fit into that dress, I'm not going to be proud of myself. If I'm not proud of myself. I'm not going to feel good about going to this event. And. Right. You can pull the thread or whatever reason and the desire piece is, okay, so now you know the outcome. You said you want and you can't get without change desires. Do I even really? Do I know what's in it for me? Like with them? Okay, what's in it for me if I do this? So in an organization, do the people that need to take action to employ this new process or to do what it takes to change, understand what it does for them personally, not just for the greater good? Because if they're going to be able to get on board with it, to get them to really invest their time and energy and commitment and really stay the course without affecting energy of everyone else or potentially risking the whole deployment, right? If they don't know what it's in it for them, it's very easy for them to just be like, yeah, whatever. It doesn't matter. But if there is something where they say, oh, when we make this change in a corporate scenario where it would be, oh, well, it's just a stupid system that's put in a new system, now I have to learn anything. Well, what's in it for them is, oh, well, now it takes half the time to do what you do, and now you have time to do all the other stuff that you're expected to do. Okay, now there's a a wifm, right? What's in it for me? If you apply it to yourself individually, it's the same concept. You know what's in it for me? If I lose weight, do I actually care? Or is this for someone else in my life? Does somebody else expect me to look this way? Right.

00:16:27 Speaker 3: If it is, please.

00:16:29 Stacy McAlpine: And I think you were about to say something, so I stopped to take a breath before.

00:16:35 Sana: Before we we move on to knowledge, ability and reinforcement. Stacey. I think, um, more than the desire, I think awareness that is such a pivotal. And that's why it is there in the first, you know, step to begin with. Because if you're not aware and sometimes, you know, um, and I'm just looking at this from a general life perspective, a human perspective that sometimes, um, if you yourself are not getting that awareness, there will be moments, there will be, there will be occurrences, events to give you that awareness. And, and, you know, sometimes we are proactive, sometimes we are reactive, you know, things and you become aware, oh, okay. Okay. So there was a problem. Now I'm aware about that problem and accept that there's a problem.

00:17:31 Stacy McAlpine: Yeah. Sometimes life takes over to make it clear that, hey, you haven't gotten these, these hints, so let's just make it very apparent right now that a change needs to occur, right? Like a big slap in the, in the face of. Are you listening? There's a change here that needs to be made, right? Yeah. For sure. Well, and when you look at that with desire, so big piece that I really dive in with my clients on and it's so interesting because I've never worked with anyone or anytime I've ever done this. I should say there is a paradigm shift in for myself, even right when I did this to myself, like, oh, wow, that really revealed something that completely changes the way I think about it. And it happens with every single person I've ever gone taken through this, this process with, right? Because, um, sometimes you don't really have the clarity. You just think it sometimes it's a should and you don't even realize it. I should do this because everybody expects me to look a certain way. Well, I won't say bad words. Do you even give a, do you give a hoot right about that person sometimes. Why do we care what Karen thinks, right? It's like, if I'm happy in my life and I like exactly where I'm at, why am I losing ten pounds? So I don't get her little judgy attitude or whatever, you know? Um, so it's a good test when you get to that desire stage. So there's a problem. There's an outcome. Do you even want the outcome? What is in it for you to get that outcome? Is that is what's in it for you? Of just making it so somebody else isn't unhappy. And if that's the case, why do we care if it's only about them? Why are we doing it for ourselves? Sometimes it's in a place where. But if we don't, then we're going to get fired. Well, the question, is that true? Really? You know, is that true? Really? Or have we decided that's the case? Do I really need to make this change? Or can it be one of those things where maybe I have a conversation and say, you know what, I really see how this is going to add value to the bigger picture. It just gives you an opportunity to really for your own self think about do I even benefit from this personally in a way that I care about in my life? So that's where desire comes in. And the last piece of that, and something that I definitely resonated with me and I think can resonate with a lot of folks. But Tony Robbins said, um, is that people don't change to achieve pleasure. They change to avoid pain. So until it becomes more painful to stay the same, we're not going to change if we associate more pain with making the change than we do about just living life as it is, we are not going to change. Or if we try, it's one hundred percent willpower and we wonder why it's such a pain to try and get ourselves to do something. It's a signal to you that if it feels like Sisyphus pushing a big rock up a hill all the time, it's a signal that says, why am I doing this again? Is this really necessary? And if it is, is there another way that I actually want to do that can get the results I want. That maybe doesn't have to take this path. So, um, that's the desired piece. I don't know if you want me to pause again before I.

00:20:52 Speaker 4: No, please. We only have thirty minutes.

00:20:56 Sana: No worries. No worries. Please, Stacey. Go ahead. Because, uh, this is absolutely necessary. And it's such a. I think I shouldn't let our listeners and myself lose that opportunity to learn. So please go ahead safely.

00:21:10 Stacy McAlpine: Yeah. And I'll, I'll cover the rest in a shorter frame because really it's those two pieces where if those are not in place, that's where the problem is. So if you can't answer either of those things, but you're trying to learn what you can be doing, or you're trying to get new skills to try and get this change that you're trying to make happen, or you're trying to get a result and you just are trying to keep it that, like we said, make change stick. You know, make it so that it continues. And it wasn't just this, you know, get the finish line and then breathe, and then everything goes back to normal. Oftentimes it's because A and D had holes. If you can get A and D to point where yes, I want it. Yes, I know that this is the result that I want. Yes, I know it's not a should or this is the benefit to me when I do it. Here's the cost of not doing it. And if it becomes where I don't want to accept that cost, it's it's costly. It's more costly to me in my experience of life to not make the change. And I just want to dial in on the experience of life piece. Everything I do comes down to what is the experience of life you want to have. This goes to every business owner, to anyone who has a business doesn't have a business. Ultimately, in the end, we're here to have an experience of life. Experience of life is really the desired outcome for whatever we're doing, whether it's business, whether it's pleasure, whether it's personal life doesn't really matter with our kids, with spouses, with ourselves, there's an experience of life that we want to have and that becomes the desired outcome. So if you're looking at it from that lens, there's the micro lens, like at that exact state, for example, like a system or health or something that's like micro. But if you look bigger, it's really the goal is to have a certain experience of life. And that's what I work with my clients on. What does that look like and, and what, what will deliver that? And then go through this adkar process to say, okay, so is that do you even really want that? Do you believe it's possible, right? All these things. And so, so that's where desire is that going to deliver the experience of life you want to have? And is that something that you're committed to? And so much so that it almost becomes non-negotiable to get the result. The knowledge piece is, okay, well, what do I need to know? So all of A and D, there is no house. We are not thinking about how we do it, how gets in the way. Like, oh, but that'll never happen. It doesn't matter if you think it can happen or even let your brain go to, well, that'll never happen because we're not in that state. It's kind of like brainstorming almost, where you're not supposed to shoot down ideas, right? You're just at least know what you want. Then you get to the knowledge piece and that's where, okay, what do I need to know in order to make that happen? Do I know those things? You know, like what? What's the path? What, what are some of the things that we need? Um, this is when I help my clients look at it from another methodology in business, which is called the balanced scorecard method, which is a strategic side of change. So, you know, you want this and how are we going to get there? What do we need? So we look at vision funding is what I call it funding. How much money do you need to get the result to invest in all these other things? But you look at what's the learning and growth or resources I need. What are the habits and rituals that would need to be in place to help me be successful? What relationships are required? What you know that need to be nurtured or created. And then what is the funding needed to support all of those things that we just said are required in order to get to where we want to be. So when you have those four things, that's what we do in knowledge. What do you need to know how to and how are you going to get there? That's just knowledge. Just because you know doesn't mean that you know how to do it, like execute ability. So it's like if you say, oh, I know how to swing a golf club, it doesn't mean you actually go out and are good at it yet. You know about it. You can be told about it, but until you're practicing and even practicing, it takes time, right? It just takes time. So that's where ability comes in. So if you know what to do, but you're frustrated that you're not doing it well, then it's just honing skills or Her going and getting those skills. So what I do, I don't teach my clients this process. I guide them through getting extracting this information from them and putting it into an approach that they can just, you know, um, follow step by step. Okay, here's your plan. Just work the plan so they don't have to know how to do change management. And so like, if you think about ability, you don't need to go spend twenty five years in consulting to learn how to do change. It's maybe I hire somebody who knows how to do that, who's on my team, what mentorship would be helpful to deliver that knowledge? So as a business owner, just because we don't know how to do everything doesn't mean we won't have the ability to do it if we get those resources on the team. So that's ability and ability to, again, it goes back to saturation of each one, right ability. If you don't have one hundred percent ability, how can you reinforce the change? Right. It's looking at where are the holes. And until you have that. Expecting the result to just happen or come, you're just setting yourself up for frustration. So that's where the power of Adkar comes in. When you're thinking about where am I getting stuck? What's missing? Going back to the first gap, before you start trying to fill in the holes in between, because you might not actually need to know how to do something if you go back to awareness and desire. Maybe you don't need to do all of that. Maybe we cut that out and you don't need to know how to do that, right? So a lot of times we learn a bunch of stuff we don't need to know because we think we need to know, but we really don't. So that's the power. And then reinforcement is this is where it's not just making sure change sticks, it's making sure you're getting the result you want from the change. That's where a lot of times that can get missed. So it's not just how do you keep yourself going to the gym or for eating, eating healthy or, you know, running something in your business. But while you're doing that, are you getting the experience and result you want? Because we don't always know exactly what's going to deliver it once it's happening. Maybe we didn't like that, or maybe we did get the result we wanted and it didn't really deliver the experience or, or real impact we want to continue. So that's an opportunity to adjust and say, okay, well, I like the change, but I don't like what I have to do to keep doing it. Maybe I do something else or, oh, that didn't work. Let's go back to awareness, desire, knowledge, ability, right? Of what do we want to adjust and use it that way? So that's Addie Carr.

00:28:24 Sana: That was a masterclass in there, Stacey. And one thing that you know, and this is specifically connected to what he shared about reinforcement and how, you know, we have to go back again to the awareness and desire part in there. Um, now, I mean, when when we keep breaking, you know, our own promise, like we know, we know the incentive in there, we know the desire part in there. Um, but then sometimes, you know, we, we call it as, you know, we're self-sabotaging, but then it can be lazy. Also, the word can be lazy. So what, what do you think resistance is actually doing for people like, you know, we procrastinate or, or we just sit upon it and we just call it like, what is it performing so many.

00:29:16 Stacy McAlpine: And I think I know I can honestly say I've done plenty of self-sabotage. It can get scary. There's it's not I don't mean to in convey that any of this is easy. It's a simple approach. It's simplified in terms of how to approach it. It doesn't mean that it's easy. Um, and that's where in terms of the things that you're setting yourself up to do. So the first thing that I recommend and that I do before I even get to talking about ADR with my clients is okay, you signed up for something like let's say you say, okay, I want to do this thing. Well, why do you want it? Why are you even saying, I want to do this? But then what? What might get in your way that you can set yourself up for success now? Because we have habits, right? Let's say I just know that I want to watch Netflix, because that's the only way I can detach from work, right? Um, and at the same time, I don't know what to replace that with. That would help me not watch so much Netflix to detach, you know? So if I don't want to just do that and maybe I want to work in a different habit. Like if I'm trying to make change in my health, maybe I say, okay, what can if I know Netflix might be a thing, maybe I just watch Netflix while I'm walking, right? Um, it's knowing where. I mean, weakness might not be the right term, but you know, something we can relate to? Where do you tend to to get hit a wall or where do you tend to get derailed? And you know that about yourself already. There are certain things you just know. So how can you get in front of that? You know, in project management, we think of it like risk management. There's risks and there's issues. Issues are things that already happened. Risks are what could happen that could keep us from getting the result we want. And then you put in mitigation plans so that that risk doesn't become an issue. So you kind of think about it like, what are the risks that could that of not making it like, what are some of the things that could trigger a problem? And is there something I can do to avoid that from happening or keep that from happening? And it can be as simple as, let's say, um, just to get set up of, of getting through the thinking process of A and D, right. It could be, well, I'm going to set, you know, twenty minutes in the morning, I'm going to get up early and have coffee and do this exercise. Because if I don't, my day is going to get started and I'm going to get tired and I'm not going to want to do it. So it's really looking at where could the, where could that process break for you and start to upfront think about when this happens, I'm going to do this. Or if I notice this is happening, you already have a plan that you can put in place. It can, it could be very simple. It could even just be, I'm going to go talk to, you know, Johnny, when I start to get in this place or I put somebody on point to say, hey, Stacey, you're doing that thing that you said you might do, just wanted to make sure, you know, this is an opportunity for you to not do that thing. So, so that's one of the best parts of being able to set up front. And you get to know yourself through all of this, right? And ultimately, if we're not doing it, and I could talk to you all day long, but just to be simple and short, the simplest thing you can do when you notice those things is why, why am I doing this? Like, what am I afraid of? You know, with a self sabotage, if I'm doing things that I know are going to not work, then the question is, well, why am I doing that? Is it because I don't know what to do differently? Or is it because I'm afraid of what happens if I do it differently? The impact in my world. And then it becomes, okay, well, if I'm afraid of that, how what can I do that would make it feel safer? Maybe it's making your steps smaller. Maybe you don't need to change everything. Maybe you just do a micro step. Um, and so it's just an awareness level of. Yeah. And there are a lot of techniques that I teach around or even just catch people on, of noticing things, of people or, or being able to ask themselves certain questions or pose a question that they answer themselves. Most of what I do is posing questions or noticing things and helping them get the answer out of themselves, or identify where they can go get that answer so that they can keep moving. But that's the simplest thing, is if you're starting to feel like you're self-sabotaging or you're not following through, do you even want this anyway? Should test. Hello? Do you even want this? What if you don't do it? What's the impact to your life? Is it more painful to not do it than to do it? If it's more painful to make the change, is there another way you can get the result that isn't such a pain for you? Maybe it's like, for example, I've signed up for gyms. I used to go to the gym all the time, then I didn't, I used to do in-home gym. Then I wasn't doing that. So I thought, oh, I'm going to make myself go to the gym again. I was paying a stupid amount a month and I'm like, I'm just not. I don't want to go. I don't want to go. So I did go because I just didn't want to go. It makes no sense why it was like a minute away, but I just wasn't going to do it. So that's an awareness of all right. I just don't want to do that. What can I do instead? What is the experience of this that I want to have? And I can do a whole podcast with you on that. Um, but it's is what are three other ways I could get the result I want? That's not there. Yeah. And see which thing and you just keep doing that until you come up on something that you do want to do. To get you to that result that doesn't cause the rock up the hill, right?

00:35:11 Sana: No, no, absolutely. I think, it kind of, you know, gives that, flexibility instead of that rigidity that. Okay, if this doesn't go well. It's end of the game. It's. Yes.

00:35:25 Stacy McAlpine: And it's like it's all or nothing so much. And that's not a judgment because I absolutely can feel that way sometimes too. But it's a matter of catching yourself or having someone who can catch you on that. And that's why if you do go through the add cart process, there's infrastructure that you put in place that keeps you in awareness throughout or can catch you on you. You know, when you're doing the how you're aware of where could we maybe go wrong or where can we fall off and what are some things we can put in place to at least keep us from going off the rail? And if we're about to go off the rail, we know we're going to go off the rail before we go off the rail and can do something about it. And project management, if you think about performance measures, is a big, big thing. There's leading and lagging. Lagging is the result. Leading is a micro result that needs to happen in order to be successful all the way to the end to get that result. So if you know you want a certain result, a leading one could be, let's say you want to lose ten pounds. Well, I want to lose five pounds by January. All right. Well, it's February and I haven't lost five pounds. Then you kind of think about, well, you might be like, oh, well, I'm never going to do it. I didn't do it in January. There's no way I'm going to make ten pounds by whatever. Then you can say, well, should maybe I just adjust that mile marker so that I can be successful rather than just quit because I feel like, well, I'm not going to make it anyway. So there's, there's a million ways to set yourself up to recognize patterns or to, to get yourself to stop and think, all right, what's the deal? How to use things that are happening as signals. I think of it kind of like your soul knocking on you. If you think about a feeling, it's kind of like, hey, we got some information here. Let's pause And think about what this information is giving us, instead of just trying to power through it and hope for the best.

00:37:25 Sana: Right? Absolutely right. And before we wrap, wrap this up, one question that once again, when I kind of shared that this is flexible, not rigid, this question kind of popped up in my mind that, you know, some people and I think this question, it comes naturally with any, any kind of discussion around frameworks and structured change or approach, you know, that it is rigid. I don't want my life to become a project plan. So isn't it possible that all this structure actually creates more pressure and makes people wait faster?

00:38:05 Stacy McAlpine: I love that you asked this question because I actually, when I started Journey Fuel, there are things that I know can trigger resistance right off the bat. So I don't even use certain words like I don't use goals. I don't use performance measures. I use, um, you know, destinations or milestones or celebration points because it can feel like this performance mindset. And the other part of it is just to take that piece of designing it to know we're designing an experience, not a process. So there are steps to take that are part of a plan. But if you're taking those steps and you're not having the experience that you're designing it to have, you can change it because the point is to get the outcome of the experience. Not so much just the thing. It's like, let's say you want to have a car that's really cool car because you want to have an experience. One of the things and definitely going to have parking lot this one or take me another hour. But, but the other thing I always start with is, you know, life is a collection of feelings. That's it. The experience of life is feelings. That's it. So no matter what you're doing, what. And this is not taught in corporate. So this is the part I added in that was not part of organizational change, but does get into desire, which is, well, how do you even know what you want in the first place? Well, how do you want to feel is something that we can connect to if we if we do it deliberately, not, how do we not want to feel, but how do we want to feel instead? And what's going to deliver that feeling? And I take people through a process of how to identify that that isn't a just write stuff down based on what you know, because that can freeze people too. It's like, well, I don't know if I knew I would do that, right. But it's using the desired outcome of the feeling that can help you get to where, what even just what's one thing I can do that would get me closer to that? You don't have to know the whole thing. But when you do think about that, what you're talking about with rigidity, it comes down to as you're creating that quote unquote plan, I call it like an itinerary or a roadmap. It's kind of like if you're on a road trip and you planned to get to a certain city by a certain time, you really have to pee. Like you just drink too much soda and you are not going to make it and go to the gas station, do the thing. And you know, is it that big a deal? And that's an opportunity to even see. Or am I self-imposing this stress? Sometimes we put this pressure on us to get a certain thing by a certain time. But says who? Especially in our own lives. You know, I get it. Like if we have a client deadline and even then, you know, there's things you could do, but a lot of times they're not really fixed. We've fixed them in terms of a variable sense, right? It, it can, it can be manipulated or modified if we're not getting the result we want. It's not a failure. It's a learning point that, hey, you know what? We tried this and it's not working. So what else can we be doing that can still get us to where we want to go? That isn't such a pain or just I. You learn you don't know what you don't know until you do it sometimes. So maybe you're getting the result you want, but you thought you wanted. But once you had it, it's really not giving you the experience you had hoped to have with it. So there's a lot we could do on that one. But it is comes down to how do you connect with what you're creating for yourself? Are you creating it from a performance mindset of, I have to have a structure. Structure is not bad, but it can be a foundation. It can be what word do you want to use? Guardrails. It could be, you know, um, an escalator, it could be whatever you decide it is. So and it can be as flexible as you want. As long as you know the results you're going for and can litmus test it against the. Will this deliver what I want ultimately and use Achkar the whole way? Because a lot. Of times that desire peace. A lot of times we don't have the desire at the level we need. In order to make it through that process.

00:42:36 Sana: And I believe you know your, your rights because. This is a nuanced, um, approach that, you know, you have followed in here because, you know. The framework or, you know, something like adguard or any kind of approach, in fact, you know. These become like your, um, manual because yes, at the worst possible time, I mean, back of the mind. You know, the what the worst possible consequences can be, but then you know that you have a manual to look at. Yeah, exactly. Life is uncertain. Business can be challenging. Entrepreneurship can be challenging. But if you have a manual in there that you know you can turn to in the worst possible cases. Yeah. At least you know, you're aware about, you know, how to begin looking at it.

00:43:32 Stacy McAlpine: It creates a trust or kind of, um, like a level of a safety feeling. It kind of removes some of the, the fear or uncertainty, anxiety, right? Uncertainty is we're moving. What can you do to remove some of that uncertainty? Become more certain. And when you know that, oh, if this is happening, that means I don't have this, then you go back to that and really dig into that so that, you know, it does give you that insight of, well, where do I fix? What do I fix? You know, if you know which piece to go back to where it's broken in terms of add car versus looking at a nine hundred line item project plan or something, or a big old to do list. It goes back to, well, where is this within, you know, that change formula? And that probably means I'm missing a or maybe it's missing knowledge, right? It helps you know where to go so that you can dial in and close that gap, which is going to give you the insight or the, the next piece that you've been missing because you didn't have that part of the formula. Yep, yep.

00:44:45 Sana: Super, super. Uh, Stacey, once again, that was indeed a masterclass in there. And I'm very sure our listeners will be very much now eager to connect with you. Reach out to you. So yeah, what's, what's the best possible way?

00:45:00 Stacy McAlpine: Well, um, I believe there's a way for your listeners to access links on your site or someplace. Uh, but what I've done is I've created a quick self-assessment where you can find out whatever the changes that you're trying to make. Where are you in that process? Like what is missing? And so that it can detect where the gaps are and where to go to, to, to focus. So it relieves that big giant, I have no where to, what to fix to. Oh, that means go back to this piece. And when you have that, you're going to get the clarity you need to get out of that stuck place. So it's just a three minute self-assessment and it'll spit out. Here's where you are in that. Here's an area that you can be focusing on. And it also gives you an opportunity to, if you wanted to jump on a call and get more details around that, you can get on the calendar that way as well. So you could do that through the link on your site or, um, journey fuel dot com. There's a way to get to it there, but um, the easiest, fastest way is just using the link that you guys are providing in the notes.

00:46:10 Sana: Awesome, awesome. Yes, definitely. Listeners, I'll make sure that, you know, all the links are mentioned in the show notes. So just find them attached along with this episode on whichever platform you are tuning into your podcast right now. And listeners, if this conversation gave you language for something you have been living, um, especially especially that quiet frustration of why can't I make this stick? Do follow this blend, not because we are here to hype you up, but because we are here to help all of us stay honest, stay human, and build change in a way that doesn't have to cost your peace. And, um, Stacey, I, I, I cannot thank you enough because, uh, you really kind of, you made me, um, introduce to a whole different perspective of looking at change and making it stick because that is something that, you know, almost every one of us, we do struggle with it. And, and. Yeah. For, for making it grounding, practical, simple, easy to, you know, understand.

00:47:19 Stacy McAlpine: Awesome. Yes. And that's why I'm so passionate about it is because I feel like that was what was really missing for us as individuals in the world. We, we're not taught how to live lives. We love waking up to. Right. Um, and so the how to get the results that once we know what we want, um, can be a challenge. So this is a quick way to help you get through that stage of where to start and what might be getting in your way.

00:47:44 Sana: Absolutely. Super. And listeners do try out Stacey's assessment. So I'll once again mention the links in the show notes and connect with her. And, uh, thank you to everyone for tuning in. Until next time. This is Sana. We have been listening to this and I'll catch you in the next episode. Thank you.