1 00:00:07,050 --> 00:00:11,270 Claire Bown: Hello and welcome to The Art Engager podcast with me, Claire Bown. 2 00:00:14,370 --> 00:00:18,480 I'm here to share techniques and tools to help you engage with your audience 3 00:00:18,570 --> 00:00:22,020 and bring art objects and ideas to life. 4 00:00:23,220 --> 00:00:24,870 So let's dive into this week's show. 5 00:00:28,425 --> 00:00:31,605 Hello and welcome back to The Art Engager Podcast. 6 00:00:31,755 --> 00:00:36,465 I'm Claire Bown, and today is the podcast's fifth birthday. 7 00:00:37,515 --> 00:00:41,715 It's also the last episode for now, at least. 8 00:00:42,675 --> 00:00:46,425 In case you miss my announcement yesterday, I've decided to take a 9 00:00:46,425 --> 00:00:50,385 bit of a break, a sabbatical, if you will, and I just want to take 10 00:00:50,385 --> 00:00:55,215 a moment to talk about that, before we get into today's conversation. 11 00:00:56,684 --> 00:01:04,455 So after five years and 166 episodes with listeners in 91, yes, 91 countries. 12 00:01:05,084 --> 00:01:08,865 I'm genuinely so proud of what this podcast has become. 13 00:01:08,895 --> 00:01:13,935 It has brought so many interesting people, great conversations, and really 14 00:01:14,025 --> 00:01:16,935 unexpected opportunities into my life. 15 00:01:17,505 --> 00:01:22,970 And honestly, I wasn't expecting any of that when I sat down to record those first 16 00:01:22,970 --> 00:01:26,840 solo episodes under a blanket in 2021. 17 00:01:28,304 --> 00:01:29,505 I am a little sad too. 18 00:01:29,505 --> 00:01:34,035 This podcast has been such a big part of my working life for five years, 19 00:01:34,035 --> 00:01:39,975 something I've built week by week, episode by episode, largely on my own. 20 00:01:40,425 --> 00:01:46,975 It began as almost entirely solo episodes, just me a microphone, and 21 00:01:46,975 --> 00:01:52,045 a lot to say, and over time it's grown into the mix of solo and guest 22 00:01:52,045 --> 00:01:54,775 conversations it's been ever since. 23 00:01:55,015 --> 00:01:57,745 And I've learned so much from all of my guests. 24 00:01:57,745 --> 00:02:01,705 It's been a real privilege to get to talk to so many people doing such 25 00:02:01,735 --> 00:02:07,555 interesting and important work in museums and cultural spaces all over the world. 26 00:02:08,005 --> 00:02:11,875 And I really think that having those conversations has also shaped 27 00:02:11,935 --> 00:02:14,545 my own thinking in so many ways. 28 00:02:15,750 --> 00:02:22,170 But I also feel ready, ready to make a bit of space for perhaps new books, new ideas, 29 00:02:22,170 --> 00:02:24,810 new things I haven't yet figured out. 30 00:02:24,930 --> 00:02:30,780 And I want to leave on a high note while the podcast is still at its best, where 31 00:02:30,780 --> 00:02:34,200 there's still energy and curiosity in it. 32 00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:37,560 Whether it comes back in what form and when. 33 00:02:37,770 --> 00:02:41,640 I honestly don't know yet, but I'm not closing the door. 34 00:02:43,065 --> 00:02:47,715 I will have more to say at the end of the episode, including a proper thank you to 35 00:02:47,715 --> 00:02:50,355 everyone who has made this what it is. 36 00:02:51,495 --> 00:02:56,055 Now for this final episode, I wanted a guest who felt right for this moment, 37 00:02:56,055 --> 00:02:59,954 not just for the birthday and the sabbatical, but for the moment the whole 38 00:02:59,954 --> 00:03:02,295 sector is currently living through. 39 00:03:02,565 --> 00:03:07,995 Someone who has spent the better part of two decades asking the questions 40 00:03:08,235 --> 00:03:14,025 most of us find too uncomfortable or too speculative to sit with: what does 41 00:03:14,025 --> 00:03:19,575 the future hold for museums and what do we need to do now to be ready for it? 42 00:03:20,385 --> 00:03:25,274 My guest today is Elizabeth Merritt, vice President for Strategic 43 00:03:25,274 --> 00:03:30,465 Foresight at the American Alliance of Museums and founding director of 44 00:03:30,465 --> 00:03:32,804 the Center for the Future of Museums. 45 00:03:33,675 --> 00:03:39,735 Since 2008 through financial crisis, pandemic, acceleration of AI and 46 00:03:39,855 --> 00:03:44,775 everything in between, Elizabeth and the Center have been scanning the 47 00:03:44,775 --> 00:03:50,475 horizon for the museum sector, helping organizations to think further ahead 48 00:03:50,475 --> 00:03:56,025 than their next strategic plan, and challenging them to question assumptions 49 00:03:56,205 --> 00:03:57,615 they didn't even know they were making. 50 00:03:59,174 --> 00:04:03,765 So in this conversation, we look back at how the operating environment for museums 51 00:04:03,765 --> 00:04:06,135 has changed since the center began. 52 00:04:06,495 --> 00:04:11,475 We explore some of the assumptions that are being tested right now around 53 00:04:11,475 --> 00:04:16,454 leadership, philanthropy, and the stability of the non-profit sector. 54 00:04:17,024 --> 00:04:22,995 And we look ahead to what museums need to build and why ultimately, museums matter. 55 00:04:23,490 --> 00:04:28,950 It's a really wide ranging conversation and I think a fitting one to close 56 00:04:28,950 --> 00:04:31,530 five years of The Art Engager on. 57 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,920 I hope you enjoy it and I'll be back at the end to wrap up, 58 00:04:36,246 --> 00:04:36,966 hello Elizabeth. 59 00:04:36,966 --> 00:04:39,186 Welcome to The Art Engager podcast. 60 00:04:40,176 --> 00:04:40,926 Elizabeth Merritt: Thank you, Claire. 61 00:04:40,926 --> 00:04:42,696 I'm so happy to be here with you today. 62 00:04:43,206 --> 00:04:48,846 Claire Bown: So our first question, as always, is who are you and what do you do? 63 00:04:49,881 --> 00:04:50,961 Elizabeth Merritt: I'm Elizabeth Merritt. 64 00:04:51,051 --> 00:04:55,101 I'm the Vice President of Strategic Foresight and founding Director of the 65 00:04:55,101 --> 00:04:59,601 Center for the Future of Museums at the American Alliance of Museums in the USA. 66 00:05:00,501 --> 00:05:04,081 Claire Bown: So, we are lucky enough to have met once before on 67 00:05:04,081 --> 00:05:08,601 this podcast for the Special NEMO Conference, episode that we did. 68 00:05:08,601 --> 00:05:11,451 But I invited you back here because I wanted to hear more 69 00:05:11,451 --> 00:05:13,191 about the amazing work that you do. 70 00:05:13,521 --> 00:05:16,041 So, can you tell us a little bit about what the Center 71 00:05:16,041 --> 00:05:17,346 for the Future of Museums is? 72 00:05:18,636 --> 00:05:19,626 Elizabeth Merritt: Absolutely. 73 00:05:19,676 --> 00:05:24,296 The Center for the Future of Museums actually was founded in 2008, which, 74 00:05:24,296 --> 00:05:28,136 if you think back, is a period that was shaped by two huge forces. 75 00:05:28,556 --> 00:05:32,276 Economically, it was the financial collapse sparked by the mortgage loan 76 00:05:32,276 --> 00:05:37,106 crisis, and technologically it was the rapid acceleration of social media. 77 00:05:37,856 --> 00:05:41,066 Yeah, I'd like to say that actually made it easier to launch CFM 78 00:05:41,096 --> 00:05:45,086 because in times of uncertainty people are more open to new ideas. 79 00:05:45,566 --> 00:05:50,186 So in that environment, um, we came out and I said, center for the 80 00:05:50,186 --> 00:05:53,696 Future of Museums is gonna be a think tank and research and development 81 00:05:53,696 --> 00:05:58,046 lab for fostering creativity and helping museums transcend traditional 82 00:05:58,051 --> 00:06:01,136 boundaries to serve society in new ways. 83 00:06:02,516 --> 00:06:03,716 I've been doing, do the math. 84 00:06:03,716 --> 00:06:08,239 I've been doing this for 17 years now, and in that time I've had A 85 00:06:08,239 --> 00:06:13,879 great run of acting as a kind of agent provocateur, challenging museums 86 00:06:13,879 --> 00:06:17,299 to question their assumptions about traditional practices and experimenting 87 00:06:17,299 --> 00:06:18,650 with new ways of doing business. 88 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:24,559 I felt this was necessary because humans tend to spend a lot of time 89 00:06:24,559 --> 00:06:28,280 focusing on what has been proven to work in the past, because that 90 00:06:28,280 --> 00:06:29,960 seems like a good way to reduce risk. 91 00:06:30,905 --> 00:06:34,535 And that's perfectly valid in a sort of stable time where you 92 00:06:34,535 --> 00:06:37,535 can use what's worked in the past to be successful in the future. 93 00:06:37,535 --> 00:06:42,605 But as the years since our launch have proven this is not a stable 94 00:06:42,605 --> 00:06:48,125 time, so I help museums assess what traditional practices might not 95 00:06:48,365 --> 00:06:52,115 be working so well any longer and experiment with what could work better. 96 00:06:52,445 --> 00:06:56,165 So I like to encourage our sector to explore the edges of what's 97 00:06:56,165 --> 00:06:58,505 possible given time and circumstances. 98 00:06:59,495 --> 00:07:02,045 Claire Bown: And, I'm gonna throw this question out there to you, but I was 99 00:07:02,045 --> 00:07:06,245 thinking as you were describing yourself there as an agent provocateur, which is 100 00:07:06,245 --> 00:07:10,625 a lovely description, what does a typical day look like for you in that role? 101 00:07:11,870 --> 00:07:14,539 Elizabeth Merritt: Well, let me frame what the work falls into. 102 00:07:14,570 --> 00:07:17,030 'cause then the specifics of the day make more sense. 103 00:07:17,030 --> 00:07:22,159 So my assignments are, first of all, to help museums think on a longer timeframe, 104 00:07:22,789 --> 00:07:26,240 which you'd think would be easy since most museums will tell you that they're 105 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,810 there to preserve whatever they're taking care of for all of posterity. 106 00:07:29,810 --> 00:07:33,890 But in fact, we tend to focus on the next two or three years of our strategic plan. 107 00:07:35,039 --> 00:07:39,119 I teach the basics of foresight, which is an established discipline. 108 00:07:40,169 --> 00:07:43,349 But because most museums are never gonna have a dedicated futurist on 109 00:07:43,349 --> 00:07:48,030 staff, uh, my day involves doing a lot of the groundwork for the field. 110 00:07:48,030 --> 00:07:50,939 So I'm scanning the news and saying, what's happening out there that 111 00:07:50,939 --> 00:07:52,679 could have interesting implications? 112 00:07:52,889 --> 00:07:56,579 What's a little signal of how the future could be different than it is today? 113 00:07:56,939 --> 00:08:01,859 Uh, so flagging potential disruptions, for example, the emerging measles 114 00:08:01,859 --> 00:08:06,330 epidemic in the us, and most importantly, helping museums explore 115 00:08:06,330 --> 00:08:08,580 what I call the cone of plausibility. 116 00:08:08,580 --> 00:08:13,289 Some futures call it the cone of probability or the cone of possibility. 117 00:08:13,799 --> 00:08:14,969 So this is a map. 118 00:08:15,630 --> 00:08:20,849 Imagine a cone extending out from a point that is the present, and 119 00:08:20,849 --> 00:08:25,830 basically it's a map of potential futures and it's establishing the 120 00:08:25,830 --> 00:08:30,265 basic truth of foresight, which is we don't know what the future will be. 121 00:08:30,265 --> 00:08:33,775 It's not a matter of magically figuring out what's gonna 122 00:08:33,775 --> 00:08:35,065 happen and telling people. 123 00:08:35,065 --> 00:08:37,825 It's realizing that it could be any number of things. 124 00:08:37,825 --> 00:08:41,245 We have to imagine different potential futures in order to, 125 00:08:41,245 --> 00:08:45,444 first of all, figure out how to be successful no matter what happens. 126 00:08:46,075 --> 00:08:49,194 Because the future may very well not be what we assume it's gonna be. 127 00:08:49,780 --> 00:08:54,849 Most importantly to realize, if we imagine a preferred future every day 128 00:08:54,849 --> 00:08:59,050 as we make choices about how we spend our resources, whether that's time or 129 00:08:59,050 --> 00:09:04,119 money or connections, we can be making choices that help that preferred future 130 00:09:04,119 --> 00:09:05,740 be the one that actually happens. 131 00:09:06,211 --> 00:09:10,761 Claire Bown: And when we look back to the start of CFM, back to 2008 and 132 00:09:10,761 --> 00:09:15,441 compare it to now, I mean it feels like a lifetime ago, but what feels fundamentally 133 00:09:15,441 --> 00:09:17,841 different over that span of time? 134 00:09:17,901 --> 00:09:20,631 Perhaps what assumptions about museums have changed? 135 00:09:20,931 --> 00:09:23,451 What feels different about the operating environment? 136 00:09:23,451 --> 00:09:25,191 You know, how would you compare the two? 137 00:09:25,588 --> 00:09:28,618 Elizabeth Merritt: First of all, let's remember how many massive disruptions 138 00:09:28,618 --> 00:09:30,718 have happened in that 17 years. 139 00:09:31,138 --> 00:09:35,478 So, I mentioned already the financial collapse and the rise of social media. 140 00:09:35,478 --> 00:09:39,288 Those were two that helped launch the center, but since then, 141 00:09:39,288 --> 00:09:41,898 we've had the COVID-19 pandemic. 142 00:09:42,348 --> 00:09:47,358 That was a global disruption .Here in the US and possibly globally we've seen an 143 00:09:47,358 --> 00:09:51,768 increase in the partisan divide that has people more and more angry and unable to 144 00:09:51,768 --> 00:09:53,928 talk across their political differences. 145 00:09:54,508 --> 00:09:58,288 And now we're actually living in what some would call a previously 146 00:09:58,288 --> 00:10:02,248 unimaginable future, in which here in the US non-profits generally and 147 00:10:02,248 --> 00:10:06,238 museums are under pressure to censor their activities and their content. 148 00:10:08,083 --> 00:10:12,283 So I think that when you look at what's fundamentally different, 149 00:10:12,823 --> 00:10:16,796 it's that we can't assume that anything is unimaginable. 150 00:10:18,356 --> 00:10:20,816 There's no assumption that we can depend on. 151 00:10:21,086 --> 00:10:26,411 We're fundamentally having to say, what happened 10 years ago isn't some magical 152 00:10:26,411 --> 00:10:30,801 normal that we're going to rebound to, and we're just looking to dog paddle 153 00:10:30,801 --> 00:10:32,841 until we get back to that stable state. 154 00:10:33,201 --> 00:10:37,371 It's remaining open to the fact that any area of practice, whether it's 155 00:10:37,851 --> 00:10:43,421 cultural practices, technology, the environment, the economy, politics are 156 00:10:43,421 --> 00:10:47,801 being transformed, and we're having to reimagine our institutions and 157 00:10:47,801 --> 00:10:52,091 the needs of our communities in the face of change that's gonna create 158 00:10:52,091 --> 00:10:57,701 some new normal, that at this rate of change, may not last very long either. 159 00:10:58,696 --> 00:11:02,886 Claire Bown: If we go back to 2018, one thing that, I went back to read was 160 00:11:03,606 --> 00:11:08,596 a Trendswatch scenario that actually explored a future in which the status 161 00:11:08,596 --> 00:11:14,056 of nonprofits were actually threatened by this global pandemic, back in 2018 162 00:11:14,266 --> 00:11:16,006 you talked about financial insecurity. 163 00:11:16,216 --> 00:11:20,326 You talked about a possible probable nationalist presidential administration. 164 00:11:21,181 --> 00:11:27,001 That felt really quite improbable, very speculative at the time, and yet... 165 00:11:27,477 --> 00:11:28,407 Elizabeth Merritt: thank you for that. 166 00:11:28,467 --> 00:11:28,917 Yes. 167 00:11:29,127 --> 00:11:33,747 That was a scenario called Wild Times that was included in a scenario set 168 00:11:33,747 --> 00:11:37,887 we published as our 2018 edition of Trendswatch, our annual Foresight 169 00:11:37,887 --> 00:11:40,737 report, and that's still available as a free download on the web. 170 00:11:41,654 --> 00:11:46,934 And the purpose of that set of scenarios, including Wild Times, which was considered 171 00:11:46,934 --> 00:11:51,404 at the time, 'oh, that's the fringy, improbable future we might wanna keep 172 00:11:51,404 --> 00:11:55,904 an eye on', is to bring home this fact that we don't know what will happen and 173 00:11:55,904 --> 00:12:00,014 that even if you can say the mainstream consensuses were going straightforward, 174 00:12:00,014 --> 00:12:04,184 it's entirely possible we'll get knocked off course and something as crazy as, 175 00:12:04,244 --> 00:12:07,744 yeah, a global pandemic, financial insecurity, and a nationalist President 176 00:12:08,034 --> 00:12:10,184 can reshape our operating environment. 177 00:12:11,864 --> 00:12:16,094 And I think it brings home what a guest of yours from a past episode 178 00:12:16,144 --> 00:12:20,894 Maggie Jackson pointed out when talking about dealing with uncertainty, is 179 00:12:21,344 --> 00:12:26,794 in hindsight, if you look at some of the previously 'inconceivable' 180 00:12:26,794 --> 00:12:32,584 events, uh, to quote Princess Bride, like the 911 terrorist attacks, um, 181 00:12:32,584 --> 00:12:37,174 or the COVID-19 pandemic or Hurricane Katrina, devastating New Orleans. 182 00:12:37,854 --> 00:12:42,961 If you go back in time, there were credible experts, not fringe theorists, 183 00:12:42,961 --> 00:12:47,981 saying this is possible, even probable, it may be the kind of uncertain event 184 00:12:47,981 --> 00:12:51,251 where you know it's going to happen eventually, but you don't know when. 185 00:12:51,251 --> 00:12:55,961 But we can game out what that would look like and we can say, 'great, 186 00:12:56,051 --> 00:13:00,791 how could we take that skill of hindsight and turn it forward'. 187 00:13:00,791 --> 00:13:03,701 So instead of saying, well, if you look back, you can see there were 188 00:13:03,701 --> 00:13:05,171 people saying this could happen. 189 00:13:05,171 --> 00:13:11,441 Say who's right now doing credible, thoughtful analysis of what could happen 190 00:13:11,501 --> 00:13:15,161 and take that into account in our planning so that we're not surprised if it does 191 00:13:15,161 --> 00:13:16,691 turn out to be the future we live in. 192 00:13:16,991 --> 00:13:17,921 Claire Bown: Yeah, absolutely. 193 00:13:18,221 --> 00:13:22,571 And if we bring it up to date and, um, even if we look back to 2025, 194 00:13:22,931 --> 00:13:28,211 I think there's reason to be fairly unoptimistic, even a little bit gloomy 195 00:13:28,211 --> 00:13:31,541 about some of the numbers you shared in the trends watch report, and I 196 00:13:31,541 --> 00:13:32,981 have some of the numbers here as well. 197 00:13:32,981 --> 00:13:37,541 69% of US museums negatively impacted by executive action. 198 00:13:37,541 --> 00:13:42,671 63% anticipating disruption from philanthropy shifts. 199 00:13:43,061 --> 00:13:47,811 59% of art museum directors struggling to build a qualified candidate pool. 200 00:13:47,831 --> 00:13:53,209 And when you look at all of these figures together, how should we read this moment? 201 00:13:53,239 --> 00:13:57,549 Is this a cycle we're going through or is there something more structural happening? 202 00:13:58,359 --> 00:13:59,739 Elizabeth Merritt: I think it's structural. 203 00:13:59,739 --> 00:14:04,864 As I mentioned, I think it's shifting from an old normal to a new normal. 204 00:14:04,864 --> 00:14:08,114 One of the fundamental frameworks for foresight is 205 00:14:08,114 --> 00:14:09,914 called the Three Horizons Model. 206 00:14:09,974 --> 00:14:13,459 And it says, you know, the first horizon is the one we're living in now. 207 00:14:13,879 --> 00:14:17,149 That's characterized by a certain paradigm of what works. 208 00:14:17,426 --> 00:14:23,467 And, over time, that dominant paradigm stops working so well and you struggle 209 00:14:23,467 --> 00:14:26,047 to make it work, and you make tweaks around the edges and you try and 210 00:14:26,047 --> 00:14:29,167 patch it, but fundamentally the boat is leaking and it's gonna sink. 211 00:14:29,167 --> 00:14:30,967 And you realize that at some point. 212 00:14:31,327 --> 00:14:33,637 And I think we're at that point in many ways. 213 00:14:34,447 --> 00:14:38,797 Eventually you're gonna reach the third horizon, which is having arrived at a new 214 00:14:38,797 --> 00:14:41,167 set of successful paradigms that do work. 215 00:14:42,307 --> 00:14:45,217 Unfortunately, in the middle is the second horizon, which is 216 00:14:45,217 --> 00:14:47,137 this messy experimental time. 217 00:14:47,137 --> 00:14:51,211 When you have to do things that fail and go back and rethink it, 218 00:14:51,211 --> 00:14:52,951 it's, it's very uncomfortable. 219 00:14:52,951 --> 00:14:56,341 It's a high degree of uncertainty, but that going through that second 220 00:14:56,341 --> 00:15:00,451 horizon is the only way you're gonna arrive at the new paradigms. 221 00:15:01,531 --> 00:15:06,781 One of the strengths of foresight, is it teaches the sneaky technique of skipping 222 00:15:06,781 --> 00:15:10,464 over the Messy Middle and going straight to that third horizon and saying, ' forget 223 00:15:10,464 --> 00:15:16,614 about the hard part for now, let's dream a bit and imagine what would work, what 224 00:15:16,614 --> 00:15:20,454 would be a preferable future that we think would be stable for these reasons'. 225 00:15:20,874 --> 00:15:25,779 And then, effectively, you do what Dr. Jane McGonigal from the Institute 226 00:15:25,779 --> 00:15:29,769 of the Future calls, remembering the future, you put yourself in that 227 00:15:29,769 --> 00:15:32,679 future, that third horizon you've created that you think is going to 228 00:15:32,679 --> 00:15:37,839 be happy and thriving and successful, and you remember how you got there. 229 00:15:38,529 --> 00:15:41,679 It's kind of like cheating when you go through a maze. 230 00:15:41,679 --> 00:15:44,979 If you enter a maze, you know, you turn right and you hit a dead end, you go 231 00:15:44,979 --> 00:15:47,739 back and you turn left, and then you turn right and you hit another dead end. 232 00:15:47,739 --> 00:15:48,849 It's very confusing, right? 233 00:15:48,879 --> 00:15:50,744 'cause somewhere, you know, there's an exit, but you can't see it. 234 00:15:52,209 --> 00:15:55,539 Skipping straight to the third horizon and trying to remember how you got there is 235 00:15:55,539 --> 00:16:00,439 like being on a hot air balloon floating above the maize and looking down and you 236 00:16:00,439 --> 00:16:02,269 see the end point and you're, 'oh, okay. 237 00:16:02,269 --> 00:16:05,989 I can trace backwards to where I am now', and it's much easier 238 00:16:05,989 --> 00:16:07,429 to see what the path forward is. 239 00:16:08,719 --> 00:16:13,109 Claire Bown: And if we look at this year's Trendswatch report, there are three 240 00:16:13,139 --> 00:16:19,049 kind of strands or perhaps assumptions, these long held ideas that people feel 241 00:16:19,199 --> 00:16:20,849 less secure about than they once did. 242 00:16:20,849 --> 00:16:25,259 So you talk about leadership pipelines, philanthropy, and even the kind of 243 00:16:25,259 --> 00:16:27,539 stability of the nonprofit sector itself. 244 00:16:28,129 --> 00:16:30,979 When you put these three together, what picture are they painting 245 00:16:31,039 --> 00:16:33,919 about the environment that museums might be moving into? 246 00:16:34,189 --> 00:16:35,609 Elizabeth Merritt: So the theme of this year's Trendswatch 247 00:16:35,839 --> 00:16:37,249 was Questioning Assumptions. 248 00:16:37,849 --> 00:16:41,689 Because assumptions are what tend to lead you in the wrong direction for 249 00:16:41,689 --> 00:16:43,909 a long time before you realize you were going in the wrong direction. 250 00:16:45,049 --> 00:16:48,376 So for leadership, for example, the assumption would be everybody 251 00:16:48,376 --> 00:16:51,646 wants to be a museum director or a manager and move up the ranks. 252 00:16:51,646 --> 00:16:55,546 And anytime you advertise a job, there's gonna be lots of qualified 253 00:16:55,546 --> 00:16:59,850 candidates that make it relatively easy to fill the position with somebody 254 00:17:00,270 --> 00:17:01,860 well qualified, who's going to succeed. 255 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,535 That is wrong in so many ways right now. 256 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,760 Uh, I quote a longtime museum director from the US, Laura 257 00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:11,280 Raicovich, who said, I'm paraphrasing. 258 00:17:12,210 --> 00:17:15,300 Nobody wants to be a museum director right now because it's a lousy job. 259 00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:16,830 It's very high stress. 260 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:21,920 It's all of the expectations of the public and the board of trustees and the staff 261 00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:26,870 who now have the power via social media to be, you know, harassing their directors 262 00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:28,930 from below, holding them accountable. 263 00:17:29,490 --> 00:17:31,520 And part of it's generational. 264 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:36,710 There's a lot of data saying that millennials and Gen Z don't have 265 00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:41,120 the same views about their life, that it's automatically, you 266 00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:43,040 want to rise through the ranks. 267 00:17:43,340 --> 00:17:46,190 A lot of people are more concerned about work life balance. 268 00:17:46,190 --> 00:17:49,520 They see management as being a lot of stress that isn't 269 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,440 compensated with adequate money. 270 00:17:52,375 --> 00:17:58,945 So I think museums have to spend more conscious time saying, how are we 271 00:17:58,945 --> 00:18:04,255 going to make ourselves supportive, desirable, healthy workplaces that 272 00:18:04,255 --> 00:18:10,675 people want to not only work for, but stay in and take on more responsibility. 273 00:18:11,620 --> 00:18:15,100 And that means, that's a fundamental mind shift from we have a job 274 00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:16,420 we're gonna advertise it to. 275 00:18:16,990 --> 00:18:19,000 We need to be a training ground. 276 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,150 So museums have to think about providing broad training in a 277 00:18:23,150 --> 00:18:25,040 variety of skills for all staff. 278 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,820 So it may not be, you know, we're gonna advertise this development position. 279 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,820 It might be, let's make sure that all staff who might want to become a 280 00:18:32,820 --> 00:18:36,600 development person in the future, have access to mentoring or in internal 281 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,680 internships or training, that help them explore that as a career path. 282 00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:44,010 Uh, so there's cross training and there's mentorship. 283 00:18:44,660 --> 00:18:46,970 There are examples of museums actually doing this. 284 00:18:46,970 --> 00:18:49,040 This isn't just me thinking it up out of my head. 285 00:18:49,070 --> 00:18:53,427 The Bullock Texas State History Museum has created apprenticeship positions 286 00:18:53,847 --> 00:18:57,867 for people with good but non-museum specific experience and training. 287 00:18:57,967 --> 00:19:02,497 The Taft Museum in Cincinnati sees itself as a training ground. 288 00:19:02,497 --> 00:19:05,347 They call themselves a triple A league training ground for the major 289 00:19:05,347 --> 00:19:09,217 leagues, that can launch staff into careers and museums across the country. 290 00:19:10,822 --> 00:19:16,252 I also think that creates a healthy focus on creating an environment 291 00:19:16,252 --> 00:19:21,722 people want to work in because our field has long been sadly underpaid. 292 00:19:22,544 --> 00:19:25,694 There certainly may be constraints about what we could offer in terms 293 00:19:25,694 --> 00:19:29,654 of pay compared to big for-profit businesses, but that doesn't mean we 294 00:19:29,654 --> 00:19:31,904 have to settle for sub minimum wage. 295 00:19:32,354 --> 00:19:35,324 And there are also things that we have the um, ability to do to 296 00:19:35,324 --> 00:19:38,174 create much better work environments that we could take advantage of. 297 00:19:38,504 --> 00:19:40,094 So that's leadership. 298 00:19:40,304 --> 00:19:40,634 Claire Bown: Yeah. 299 00:19:41,509 --> 00:19:42,709 Elizabeth Merritt: Philanthropy. 300 00:19:43,279 --> 00:19:47,899 We can't just assume that the people who used to give to traditional institutions 301 00:19:47,899 --> 00:19:53,119 as they die, their heirs are going to immediately behave the same way. 302 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,149 They're gonna say, I want to support the symphony or the opera, or the big 303 00:19:56,149 --> 00:19:59,694 local art museum because, they're the cornerstones of our community and. 304 00:20:00,389 --> 00:20:02,999 The way I show my prestige in the community is to 305 00:20:02,999 --> 00:20:04,349 give to those institutions. 306 00:20:04,889 --> 00:20:07,739 Uh, younger people are much more, first of all, they're not in 307 00:20:07,739 --> 00:20:09,899 financially a secure shape often. 308 00:20:10,439 --> 00:20:14,509 At least in the US , if you go down below the top 10%, a lot of people are 309 00:20:14,509 --> 00:20:19,139 struggling to make rent and buy groceries and are struggling with student debt. 310 00:20:19,139 --> 00:20:23,129 So it's a big decision to give to nonprofits and a lot of younger 311 00:20:23,129 --> 00:20:26,909 people are saying, 'I care about causes', like saving the environment 312 00:20:26,959 --> 00:20:31,369 or improving this in my neighborhood, not, 'I love that institution, so 313 00:20:31,369 --> 00:20:32,869 I'm gonna give to that institution'. 314 00:20:33,829 --> 00:20:37,219 So I really think museums have to think fundamentally differently 315 00:20:37,309 --> 00:20:42,379 about philanthropy and consciously how to cultivate support. 316 00:20:42,409 --> 00:20:44,749 I read a really great piece of research this week. 317 00:20:44,749 --> 00:20:49,609 It's from the uk and it shows that people who hadn't visited the Natural 318 00:20:49,609 --> 00:20:52,849 History Museum in London for the past three years, okay, so they 319 00:20:53,089 --> 00:20:55,009 hadn't visited, they know about the museum, but they haven't been there. 320 00:20:55,249 --> 00:20:59,239 They're still willing to pay an average of almost 12 pounds, which is 321 00:20:59,239 --> 00:21:02,089 about $16 US, to support the museum. 322 00:21:03,229 --> 00:21:06,259 Even though they're not going, to ensure that the museum is preserved 323 00:21:06,259 --> 00:21:07,939 for current and future generations. 324 00:21:07,999 --> 00:21:11,509 So the researchers called this a measure of 'non-use value'. 325 00:21:13,219 --> 00:21:17,759 One thing I pointed out in Trendswatch is the tendency of nonprofits to 326 00:21:17,759 --> 00:21:22,079 structure, to incentivize fundraising in ways that I think can be problematic. 327 00:21:23,069 --> 00:21:26,259 So how do you make your goal for raising a lot of money? 328 00:21:26,259 --> 00:21:28,719 Go to a few big donors and get large gifts. 329 00:21:29,150 --> 00:21:34,250 But relying on a few large donors can amplify the risks of losing any one of 330 00:21:34,390 --> 00:21:38,450 them, for example, if their interests or financial situation changes. 331 00:21:38,450 --> 00:21:41,750 There have been unfortunate examples of museums relying on promised 332 00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:44,590 gifts that didn't come to be because of financial challenges. 333 00:21:45,310 --> 00:21:48,460 It can also make a museum unwilling to say or do things they fear 334 00:21:48,460 --> 00:21:50,050 would alienate a major donor. 335 00:21:50,050 --> 00:21:53,370 So it's giving one person who, who happens to be wealthy, a 336 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,890 disproportionate amount of influence. 337 00:21:56,875 --> 00:22:02,545 So it may be both more stable and more democratic with a small D to 338 00:22:02,545 --> 00:22:06,475 cultivate a broad base of donors who give smaller amounts, but passionately 339 00:22:06,475 --> 00:22:09,415 believe in a museum's mission or the role it plays in the community. 340 00:22:09,415 --> 00:22:14,545 That could be a lot of work to cultivate, but in the long term, it might be more 341 00:22:14,545 --> 00:22:19,045 stable and it might create a healthier alignment between funding and mission. 342 00:22:19,045 --> 00:22:22,730 So how do we incentivize that kind of fundraising so that it's worth the work? 343 00:22:23,521 --> 00:22:26,721 Oh, and you brought up the last challenge being nonprofit stability. 344 00:22:27,111 --> 00:22:30,801 Well, I think it starts by taking a step back and recognizing that a lot of 345 00:22:30,801 --> 00:22:34,971 visitors don't know what a nonprofit is, don't know the role that the nonprofit 346 00:22:34,971 --> 00:22:40,131 sector plays in society and may not know that a particular museum is a nonprofit. 347 00:22:40,161 --> 00:22:40,461 Right? 348 00:22:40,461 --> 00:22:43,491 So how can you expect people to really support and defend a 349 00:22:43,491 --> 00:22:45,291 structure that they don't understand? 350 00:22:46,191 --> 00:22:50,031 A federal official in the US here in the US recently commented something 351 00:22:50,031 --> 00:22:53,571 to the effect that we cannot have arts institutions that lose money. 352 00:22:54,177 --> 00:22:56,247 So sit with that for a moment, right? 353 00:22:56,277 --> 00:23:01,617 For many years we've said like nonprofit is a tax status, not a business model. 354 00:23:01,617 --> 00:23:06,717 So no, we're not here to lose money, but we need to educate our representatives 355 00:23:06,777 --> 00:23:11,127 and career staffers and local, state and federal government and the public 356 00:23:11,547 --> 00:23:15,567 that nonprofits don't quote unquote, 'lose money' because they can't cover 357 00:23:15,567 --> 00:23:17,547 their costs with earned revenue. 358 00:23:17,937 --> 00:23:22,287 Uh, as the wonderful commenter Emil Kang wrote in a recent post on his 359 00:23:22,287 --> 00:23:27,257 substack which is called The Reprise, highly Recommend, he said, quote, 'tax 360 00:23:27,257 --> 00:23:33,257 exemption isn't a loophole or a subsidy for inefficiency, it's a social contract.' 361 00:23:33,843 --> 00:23:34,833 Building on that. 362 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,740 I'd say we need to raise awareness that nonprofit status and the attached 363 00:23:39,790 --> 00:23:42,773 tax exemption is that social contract. 364 00:23:42,773 --> 00:23:46,133 It's a way for all of us collectively to support activities that make our 365 00:23:46,133 --> 00:23:50,363 nation and our communities better and ensure that arts and culture and 366 00:23:50,363 --> 00:23:53,273 science, first of all,, exist at all. 367 00:23:53,543 --> 00:23:57,083 And secondly, benefit people generally and not just the economic elite. 368 00:23:58,868 --> 00:24:01,748 Claire Bown: So when you step back from all of this, we're talking 369 00:24:01,748 --> 00:24:05,708 about the leadership pressures, the changes in funding, questions 370 00:24:05,708 --> 00:24:07,958 about stability for nonprofits. 371 00:24:08,618 --> 00:24:11,558 What pattern do you see emerging now for museums? 372 00:24:11,558 --> 00:24:15,038 What trends concern you the most and where are you seeing 373 00:24:15,098 --> 00:24:17,048 perhaps some encouraging signs? 374 00:24:17,709 --> 00:24:19,959 Elizabeth Merritt: It may surprise some listeners to learn. 375 00:24:20,139 --> 00:24:24,759 My training is, uh, not in museum studies or arts management. 376 00:24:24,789 --> 00:24:29,589 My training is in evolutionary biology, and I think one of the most promising 377 00:24:29,589 --> 00:24:33,909 things for museums is that the sector as a whole continues to speciate. 378 00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:37,719 If I can use a term of art, we keep spinning off more variations. 379 00:24:37,719 --> 00:24:41,739 Museums that are entirely digital or moved from place to place or created 380 00:24:41,739 --> 00:24:45,084 to address particular critical social or environmental issues. 381 00:24:45,774 --> 00:24:49,464 At the same time, we have our long-term survivors, the museum equivalents 382 00:24:49,464 --> 00:24:53,274 of coelacanths or horseshoe crabs that look practically unchanged from 383 00:24:53,274 --> 00:24:55,134 one or 200 years ago, in a good way. 384 00:24:56,274 --> 00:24:59,964 For example, AM's annual meeting in May is gonna be in Philadelphia. 385 00:25:01,089 --> 00:25:05,169 Today in Philadelphia, you could visit the Wagner Free Institute of Science. 386 00:25:05,469 --> 00:25:11,919 It was founded in 1855, and in many ways, it's unchanged from its 19th century form. 387 00:25:12,039 --> 00:25:16,239 Can go in and see the old exhibit cases and the historic displays of specimens 388 00:25:16,239 --> 00:25:20,499 that collected by the founder and go to fabulous public programming where people 389 00:25:20,499 --> 00:25:24,094 walk in with their own specimens they've picked up and want to have identified 390 00:25:24,094 --> 00:25:25,549 or sit down and sketch the birds. 391 00:25:26,484 --> 00:25:29,004 I wish it was down the block from me so I could visit often. 392 00:25:29,484 --> 00:25:33,264 But at the same time, you could go online and visit the Kramer Museum, 393 00:25:33,264 --> 00:25:36,954 which is a born digital virtual reality museum that launched in 394 00:25:36,954 --> 00:25:39,834 2017 and exists only on the web. 395 00:25:40,644 --> 00:25:44,964 So I think that the bright spot is, as long as we continue to experiment and 396 00:25:44,964 --> 00:25:49,764 show this vast range of variation, we're gonna thrive as a sector in the long term. 397 00:25:50,001 --> 00:25:52,431 Claire Bown: And when we look at all of these assumptions together, and I'm 398 00:25:52,431 --> 00:25:55,581 sure lots of listeners will be nodding along to lots of the things that, that 399 00:25:55,581 --> 00:25:57,111 you are saying, listening to this. 400 00:25:57,111 --> 00:26:01,891 so for people listening, working in different museum systems, in 401 00:26:01,891 --> 00:26:05,664 different parts of the world, what should they take from this? 402 00:26:06,573 --> 00:26:11,013 Elizabeth Merritt: I think the common message, regardless of how 403 00:26:11,073 --> 00:26:16,143 museums in a given country are structured or funded, is the need to 404 00:26:16,143 --> 00:26:20,223 measure and communicate the value of museums as community infrastructure. 405 00:26:21,483 --> 00:26:25,983 Too often when we think about a success, it's numbers, right, which actually, 406 00:26:25,983 --> 00:26:28,983 can be challenging to gather, but theoretically you can measure the number 407 00:26:28,983 --> 00:26:33,973 of people who are attending and how much you brought in from the latest traveling 408 00:26:33,973 --> 00:26:37,213 exhibit, uh, the number of members. 409 00:26:38,173 --> 00:26:43,363 But if you look at the social impact of museums, if you think about the hard but 410 00:26:43,423 --> 00:26:50,083 very rewarding work of showing that we are not just custodians and educators 411 00:26:50,083 --> 00:26:54,583 about history or science or art, but that museums are really fundamental anchor 412 00:26:54,583 --> 00:26:59,153 institutions that promote health and wellbeing, that create livable communities 413 00:26:59,173 --> 00:27:03,133 for the elderly and their caregivers, that foster resilience in the face of climate 414 00:27:03,133 --> 00:27:08,909 disruptions or in the face of cultural and political upheaval, I think then we're 415 00:27:08,909 --> 00:27:14,174 cultivating a common shared understanding of the need to support museums, not just 416 00:27:14,174 --> 00:27:18,854 because, oh, I like going to museums and some people don't, but because 417 00:27:18,854 --> 00:27:22,359 they're essential to the stability and health and future of our countries. 418 00:27:24,074 --> 00:27:24,344 Claire Bown: Yeah. 419 00:27:24,344 --> 00:27:28,764 And if we take that as the environment that museums are moving into, what 420 00:27:28,764 --> 00:27:33,834 do they need to strengthen now, what capacity should museums be thinking about 421 00:27:33,834 --> 00:27:35,964 building that they don't yet fully have? 422 00:27:36,294 --> 00:27:39,584 Bearing in mind that museums as organizations and institutions, 423 00:27:39,584 --> 00:27:40,814 they move quite slowly. 424 00:27:40,904 --> 00:27:41,474 So 425 00:27:43,094 --> 00:27:44,654 Elizabeth Merritt: I wanna tell you a little joke about that. 426 00:27:45,134 --> 00:27:45,254 Uh. 427 00:27:46,979 --> 00:27:51,029 So there, there used to be decades ago, a joke that it was relatively easy to 428 00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:55,259 be a consultant for the museum sector because all you had to do to sound new 429 00:27:55,259 --> 00:27:58,319 and trendy was pick up something that the business community had been doing 430 00:27:58,319 --> 00:28:02,459 for 20 years and say, 'you could do this', and museums would go, awesome. 431 00:28:02,459 --> 00:28:04,229 We could write a strategic plan. 432 00:28:04,229 --> 00:28:05,309 What a concept. 433 00:28:06,209 --> 00:28:06,599 Yes. 434 00:28:06,599 --> 00:28:08,339 But yeah, that doesn't work anymore. 435 00:28:09,179 --> 00:28:13,544 I think if you're looking at the operating environment, we're moving 436 00:28:13,544 --> 00:28:17,404 into two things are top of mind for me that are opportunities for improvement. 437 00:28:18,034 --> 00:28:24,244 One is I think the sector needs to continue an ongoing pivot from teaching 438 00:28:24,244 --> 00:28:26,584 facts to teaching how to think. 439 00:28:27,034 --> 00:28:31,174 So from presenting audiences with a certainty like 'we know this and you 440 00:28:31,174 --> 00:28:36,694 should know it', to actually fostering doubt and curiosity and critical thinking. 441 00:28:37,549 --> 00:28:42,319 One of the basic skills of foresight is recognizing what we can't and don't know 442 00:28:42,319 --> 00:28:46,909 about the future, uh, it's encouraging people to exercise their imagination 443 00:28:46,909 --> 00:28:49,219 to explore many possible futures. 444 00:28:49,579 --> 00:28:54,632 I think the parallel is that museums could take that cone of plausibility 445 00:28:54,632 --> 00:28:58,142 that looks towards the future and pivot it to the other direction, and help 446 00:28:58,142 --> 00:29:04,542 audiences understand how much we don't know about the past, and how, subject to 447 00:29:04,542 --> 00:29:06,372 interpretation and point of view it is. 448 00:29:06,672 --> 00:29:10,752 How we've been wrong about what we thought were established facts, even how different 449 00:29:10,752 --> 00:29:15,162 people in communities may have effectively inhabited different pasts because of 450 00:29:15,162 --> 00:29:18,642 their experience and because of their perspectives and their value systems. 451 00:29:19,397 --> 00:29:23,897 So I think that that's a really important pivot, that we have begun making, but 452 00:29:23,897 --> 00:29:25,727 there's room for continued improvement. 453 00:29:27,552 --> 00:29:30,942 And I think secondly, to go back to the point about leadership that I 454 00:29:30,942 --> 00:29:35,622 made earlier, I think museums should figure out how to make the most of the 455 00:29:35,622 --> 00:29:40,602 freedom that we have as nonprofits to try new organizational structures and 456 00:29:40,602 --> 00:29:42,102 create healthier work environments. 457 00:29:42,102 --> 00:29:46,602 One of my favorite words, this is so geeky, is skew morphism. 458 00:29:46,782 --> 00:29:51,792 Which is a design principle by which the design of a current artifact, whether it's 459 00:29:51,792 --> 00:29:56,302 digital or physical, or a system inherits, the structure of an older system. 460 00:29:56,302 --> 00:29:58,572 So if, you know, if you, I'm looking at my computer and the 461 00:29:58,572 --> 00:30:01,302 save icon is a little floppy disk. 462 00:30:02,082 --> 00:30:04,692 Gen alpha's not even gonna know what that was a, a picture of. 463 00:30:05,062 --> 00:30:09,262 I was just listening to a great podcast about skew morphic systems of healthcare. 464 00:30:09,262 --> 00:30:13,792 In the US, dental insurance is completely separate from health insurance, which 465 00:30:13,822 --> 00:30:18,862 is wacky, it makes no sense because , historically dentists were like not 466 00:30:18,862 --> 00:30:20,362 considered medical professionals. 467 00:30:20,362 --> 00:30:24,382 They were the local barber or the local blacksmith who would pull your tooth. 468 00:30:24,442 --> 00:30:27,752 And because of that historical artifact, we have a dysfunctional 469 00:30:27,752 --> 00:30:29,582 system of healthcare for, for dentistry. 470 00:30:30,407 --> 00:30:35,807 Well, museums have kind of inherited the skew morphic design of for-profit business 471 00:30:35,807 --> 00:30:39,917 hierarchies, and you can argue about whether it's even working for for-profit 472 00:30:39,917 --> 00:30:45,137 businesses, but it's certainly true, that there's no reason as a nonprofit, 473 00:30:45,137 --> 00:30:49,097 that we have to have the same kind of hierarchies or business practices. 474 00:30:49,487 --> 00:30:53,177 At the same time that we're not even able to match for profit salaries. 475 00:30:53,227 --> 00:30:58,597 I think that as a whole, our sector could do a better job of turning our 476 00:30:58,597 --> 00:31:05,467 ability to think about values, not just outwards, how we fulfill our mission, but 477 00:31:05,467 --> 00:31:09,967 inwards, to how we are creating healthy and supportive working environments. 478 00:31:10,792 --> 00:31:13,972 Sometimes that's gonna mean bucking the traditional nonprofit 479 00:31:13,972 --> 00:31:15,772 culture of virtuous poverty. 480 00:31:15,992 --> 00:31:19,052 Museums may find that when they do that, it's actually better business. 481 00:31:19,082 --> 00:31:23,082 Uh, here in the US when the historic site and garden Filoli committed to paying 482 00:31:23,082 --> 00:31:28,197 a living wage, which given where their site is, a pretty high wage, their costs 483 00:31:28,197 --> 00:31:31,707 actually went down because they had better staff retention and they didn't 484 00:31:31,707 --> 00:31:35,847 have all of the loss of institutional knowledge and discontinuities and work. 485 00:31:36,147 --> 00:31:39,277 So it was better for the museum's bottom line, and it was better for the staff. 486 00:31:40,852 --> 00:31:44,482 Sometimes it might mean creating an organizational chart that puts 487 00:31:44,482 --> 00:31:48,402 the, audience at the center, like the daisy diagram that the Oakland 488 00:31:48,402 --> 00:31:52,152 Museum of California did, rather than putting the CEO top on top and 489 00:31:52,152 --> 00:31:55,812 then mapping the stratographic layers of power that go down from there. 490 00:31:56,082 --> 00:31:58,032 So we have a lot of room to experiment. 491 00:31:58,112 --> 00:31:58,932 I think we should do so.. 492 00:31:59,330 --> 00:32:02,270 Claire Bown: So when we are looking ahead, to the next decade. 493 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,810 Again as we talked about at the beginning it's very, very difficult to predict 494 00:32:06,810 --> 00:32:10,440 the future, but it's always useful to have that foresight, what kind of 495 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,290 choices will matter the most for museums? 496 00:32:13,857 --> 00:32:14,457 Elizabeth Merritt: Okay. 497 00:32:14,545 --> 00:32:21,454 I think that the choices museums have, are choices that are both going to protect 498 00:32:21,784 --> 00:32:27,544 the influence they have and increase the effect they have on the world. 499 00:32:27,994 --> 00:32:28,954 So bear with me. 500 00:32:29,075 --> 00:32:34,399 I'm a data geek and there are many sources of data, decades long showing 501 00:32:34,399 --> 00:32:38,989 that museum's greatest superpower is the power of public trust. 502 00:32:39,769 --> 00:32:43,099 We have decades of data from the US showing that not only are museums 503 00:32:43,099 --> 00:32:47,449 along with libraries, the most trusted institutional sources of information, they 504 00:32:47,449 --> 00:32:49,489 only come in second to friends and family. 505 00:32:50,184 --> 00:32:52,344 That trust is actually going up. 506 00:32:52,344 --> 00:32:56,844 I have 2026 data showing me that trust is going up, even as other levels of 507 00:32:56,844 --> 00:32:59,364 trust in the government are going down. 508 00:33:00,514 --> 00:33:03,934 But I think we have to be aware, we're surrounded by many forces that 509 00:33:03,934 --> 00:33:09,094 could erode that trust in the face of proliferation, of artificial intelligence, 510 00:33:09,094 --> 00:33:10,924 ai, fakes, and misinformation. 511 00:33:11,254 --> 00:33:14,374 How do we make sure that museum content and the museum voice 512 00:33:14,374 --> 00:33:16,324 continues to be authentic and trusted. 513 00:33:17,134 --> 00:33:21,754 In the face of political pressure to censor our content or conform 514 00:33:21,754 --> 00:33:25,379 to particular points of view, how do we show that we're gonna 515 00:33:25,379 --> 00:33:29,909 remain true to our mission and values and to brave truth telling. 516 00:33:30,634 --> 00:33:35,974 Museums matter because they're basically humanity's collective memory. 517 00:33:36,704 --> 00:33:40,534 They're places where we reposit the knowledge and the feelings and 518 00:33:40,534 --> 00:33:42,034 the memories of our communities. 519 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,100 And they're are places that bring people together to experience 520 00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:46,870 and make meaning of that memory. 521 00:33:46,930 --> 00:33:50,530 I believe that this trust in this role gives museums the power to 522 00:33:50,530 --> 00:33:52,030 change the world for the better. 523 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,550 That's my inspiration for doing this work. 524 00:33:54,880 --> 00:34:01,120 So I think going forward we're faced with a lot of threats to maintaining our 525 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,640 trust and staying true to our missions. 526 00:34:04,060 --> 00:34:07,030 But a lot of opportunities because there are a lot of things in the world that 527 00:34:07,030 --> 00:34:10,390 need fixing, and I really do believe we can contribute to those solutions. 528 00:34:11,890 --> 00:34:14,140 Claire Bown: I think that's a wonderful note to end on. 529 00:34:14,290 --> 00:34:17,410 I would love for you just to add how listeners can find out more 530 00:34:17,410 --> 00:34:20,960 about you and your work at the Center for the Future of Museums. 531 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,770 Elizabeth Merritt: Certainly the Center for the Future of Museums is an initiative 532 00:34:24,770 --> 00:34:29,330 of the American Alliance of Museums, and you can find us on the web at aam-us.org. 533 00:34:32,230 --> 00:34:34,910 We are an independent nonprofit, not a government agency. 534 00:34:36,410 --> 00:34:39,410 Claire Bown: So a huge thank you to Elizabeth Merritt for being a guest on the 535 00:34:39,410 --> 00:34:42,440 show and what a conversation to end on. 536 00:34:42,650 --> 00:34:44,395 I hope it's given you lots to think about. 537 00:34:45,605 --> 00:34:47,945 I promised you a proper thank you at the end. 538 00:34:47,945 --> 00:34:49,265 So here it is. 539 00:34:49,685 --> 00:34:53,405 Thank you to everyone who has listened to this podcast. 540 00:34:53,405 --> 00:34:57,215 Whether you've been here since episode one, or you found it last week, 541 00:34:57,665 --> 00:34:59,705 thank you for making it what it is. 542 00:34:59,765 --> 00:35:03,935 I genuinely could not have done this without you or your support. 543 00:35:04,355 --> 00:35:06,905 Podcasts only exists because people listen. 544 00:35:06,995 --> 00:35:12,095 And knowing that there were people in 91 countries tuning in, thinking about these 545 00:35:12,095 --> 00:35:16,955 ideas, taking them back into their work in museums and cultural spaces around 546 00:35:16,955 --> 00:35:19,865 the world, that has meant so much to me. 547 00:35:21,365 --> 00:35:24,605 And if you're new to the podcast or if you've never had a chance 548 00:35:24,605 --> 00:35:26,405 to dig into the archives. 549 00:35:26,780 --> 00:35:28,010 Please do so. 550 00:35:28,370 --> 00:35:34,430 There are 166 episodes in the back catalog covering an enormous range of 551 00:35:34,430 --> 00:35:40,070 subjects from slow looking and questioning to facilitation, wellbeing, social 552 00:35:40,070 --> 00:35:43,010 connection, leadership, and so much more. 553 00:35:43,460 --> 00:35:45,650 It's all there and it's not going anywhere. 554 00:35:46,730 --> 00:35:48,530 I am also not disappearing. 555 00:35:48,890 --> 00:35:54,380 In June, I'll be running a new live online course designing and facilitating 556 00:35:54,380 --> 00:35:58,790 slow looking, and you can find out more about that through my newsletter. 557 00:35:58,790 --> 00:36:03,350 Curated, my Substack Adventures in slow Looking, and my 558 00:36:03,350 --> 00:36:05,210 website thinkingmuseum.com. 559 00:36:07,175 --> 00:36:12,335 And if you'd like to go deeper into the ideas behind the podcast, my book, 560 00:36:12,545 --> 00:36:19,085 The Art Engager Reimagining Guided Experiences in Museums is out now. 561 00:36:19,505 --> 00:36:24,965 All the links are in the show notes, and as for the podcast we'll see. 562 00:36:25,685 --> 00:36:29,675 I'm leaving the door open, but for now, thank you. 563 00:36:30,215 --> 00:36:33,275 Take care of yourselves and keep looking slowly. 564 00:36:38,195 --> 00:36:41,915 Thank you for listening to The Art Engager podcast With me, Claire Bown. 565 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,360 You can find more art engagement resources by visiting my website, 566 00:36:47,690 --> 00:36:52,340 thinking museum.com, and you can also find me on Instagram at Thinking 567 00:36:52,340 --> 00:36:56,720 Museum, where I regularly share tips and tools on how to bring art 568 00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:59,330 to life and engage your audience. 569 00:37:00,530 --> 00:37:04,760 If you've enjoyed this episode, please share with others and subscribe to the 570 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,550 show on your podcast player of choice. 571 00:37:08,510 --> 00:37:11,750 Thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you next time.