Ah, we're headed into the most wonderful time of the year, the

Christmas, New Year's, Holiday Season, where everyone is festive and happy.

And sometimes we take a week or two off between the holidays to kind of, you know,

rest, relax, but also to reflect on the year that's been and where we're headed.

And maybe some personal reflection, too.

That's what we do on today's episode of Transit Unplugged.

I'm Paul Comfort, the host, and today I'm happy to talk with my friend,

Matt Booterbaugh who is the CEO, the Chief Executive Officer, of one of the

nation's largest public transportation contracting companies, RATP DEV USA.

We talk about his career development and then he gives us hints on how we can

develop our own leadership skills and what we're looking for in the industry.

We also take a moment to compare what is it like to work in the public

sector in public transportation versus jobs in the private sector.

Matt goes into that in detail and we also talk about what his New Year's

resolution is and what I've been doing.

I think you'll find this a great episode as we wind up the year headed into the end

of the year season on Transit Unplugged.

Enjoy this interview with Matt Booterbaugh CEO of RATP Dev USA.

Great to have with us on the show today, Matt Booterbaugh who is CEO of RATP Dev

USA, one of the major contractors, not only in the United States, but the world.

Matt, thanks so much for being with us today on the show.

Ah, thanks for having me, Paul.

Tell us about the most exciting thing happening in public transportation

right now, do you think, in America?

Well, you know, I think we're at a bit of a crossroads, right?

If you look at public transit right now, you've got agencies

trying to kind of reimagine what the future is going to look like.

And to me, you know, that's being driven a lot by, you know, fiscal

issues that they kind of see coming.

but for me, you know, every time there's a, there's a, issue to solve

for, that's an opportunity, right?

And so I think that there's a lot of creative people out there

looking at how they can serve their communities and differently

than they may have in the past.

and for me, that's really exciting.

So let's talk about that a little bit.

I love that answer because I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I think this is, you know, we just had, you and I were just

talking in the green room.

We just had national elections.

We're going to have new priorities when it comes to public transit funding.

There may be an emphasis on highways, roads, and bridges.

But public transportation still is what moves our cities, both here

in America and across the world.

I just got back from two weeks in Australia, and, I spoke at their national

bus conference, I spoke at their national rail conference, I met with a lot of

the leaders of the country, of their transit agencies, and it's funny, as

far as they are away from us, they still are facing a lot of the same issues.

And I called them when I was there, the three F's of transportation.

it is funding.

It is faring and it is fuel.

So these are the hot topics that are happening in Australia

just like they are here.

and your company, you've got this global experience that you can bring into a

local, you know, Um, Poughkeepsie, New York or somewhere, you know, and you could

say, look, you're not just going to hire a local transit manager, you know, who

grew up and went to high school here.

No, we can bring you a trained expert who has access to all this knowledge

and Poughkeepsie could become a world class transit system with our help.

Tell me about how all that works.

Yeah.

No, you're absolutely right.

And when you look at the business that we've built here in the U S you know,

like you said, it started back in like 2009 and we were really primarily

focused on management contracts.

That's really flipped quite a bit over the course of the

last, you know, 10 years or so.

Okay.

Much more focused on operating contracts.

We've got about 38 operating contracts across the U S today.

And of those, You know, management versus operating contract.

I'd say about two thirds of them are actually turnkey operating models.

, if you take a step back and look at us globally, we're about a $1.

43 billion dollar company.

RATP Dev is?

RATP Dev is yeah.

We do business in 15 countries.

We have, you know, over a hundred operations around the

world, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 24, 000 employees.

So the fun part of being.

in my role in the U.

S.

and overseeing the U.

S.

businesses, how can I kind of connect all of those expertise that we see

around the world and tailor them to help assist, you know, agencies in the U.

S.

that may have very specific goals?

You know, whether that's around, like you said, fuel or ridership or anything else.

In my kind of memory, the way I always remember RATP Dev is, you

guys, don't you run like the Paris subways or something like that?

That's where you're really big is in Paris?

We do, yeah, if you go back, I mean, RATP has been around for about 120 years.

Oh, wow.

The very beginning of our story was, you know, there's a river that runs

through Paris, right, the Seine.

And, that river separated the city in half, and so there was a problem.

It was, how do you connect the two sides of the city of Paris?

And that's how RATP Dev was born 120 years ago.

So, we've been working to solve problems for communities

around the world since then.

And how long have you worked for them?

So I've been with RATP Dev for about six years now in a variety of

different roles, overseeing portions of operations, I oversaw business

development for a couple of years.

And then most recently, before I was named CEO, I was in the deputy CEO role.

So kind of had my hands in a little bit of everything, but it's been a, it's been a

really Fast and rewarding, last six years.

I mean, not just saying this to blow smoke, but you, you personally, you've

got a great reputation in the industry.

I've known you for a long time and, uh, you're very well respected.

I was so happy when you got this job.

I think you're definitely the right guy for it.

Um, tell us a little bit more about your background.

How'd you get into transit?

You know, where are you from?

What was your move around?

I think people love these origin stories.

Yeah, you know, it's funny, like a lot of people in transit, I didn't come

from public transit, so I worked for an information management company,

spent about 15 years of my career there, and that's where I say, kind

of, I really grew up, in, in a larger organization, learning corporate

programs and how to, how to really scale businesses, the organization I was

with, Iron Mountain, was a compilation of hundreds of different acquisitions.

So, I was with them during this period where we brought lots of different

cultures together around the world and, and kind of meshed them into

one very large global company.

And I was a General Manager there for many years overseeing, our business

in the Dallas Fort Worth area.

and then I switched gears and I played more of a global role.

I oversaw, kind of go to market sales strategy for product development, across

both North America and Western Europe.

And then, I got a knock at the door, and, uh, somebody that I had worked

with at Iron Mountain had transitioned over, to RATP Dev and said, you gotta,

you gotta come work with me over here.

This place is great.

The people are great.

It's an interesting, you know, kind of new focus.

And, and that's how I made my way over here.

and he was right.

the people have been great.

and you, you know, you've been in public transit a long time,

sometimes the days can be hard, but the people you work with are what

make it, work and what make it best.

And, uh, the culture at RATP Dev.

And the U.

S.

is just phenomenal.

I couldn't ask to work with a greater group of people.

That's wonderful.

One of the things that's interesting, because I've worked in both the public and

private side, and I've, you know, worked, I was CEO of the MTA in Baltimore, and

it's been about 15 years in the public side, and then about 15 in the private.

A lot of the people that listen to the podcast are working in

public transportation agencies in middle level management.

and so talk to us about, jobs in the private sector and you know what the

benefit is versus to work in the private sector, versus if somebody's like, let's

say right now, you know, I'm a dispatch manager, in Kansas City or wherever,

and, but I've heard about your company.

You're one of our contractors, you know, or whatever.

How can I come work for you?

Or should I, or what's the benefit?

Give us a little bit of that.

Yeah, so the first thing I'd say is if you're either on the private

side or the public side and you're thinking about going to the other

side, could be a great idea, right?

I mean, it's always great to have experience on both sides.

I think the biggest difference going probably from the public side

to the private side is because the private side, we own all of the

risk, there is a lot more focus on delivering on the bottom line.

So there's a lot of accountability around the P& L, where you probably

looks and feels a little bit differently on the public side.

I think, however, with that trade off in terms of the accountability and

focus on financial, there probably becomes a faster track in terms of

your career and what you're able to do.

So if you're, if you're somebody who is saying, man, I'm at this place in

my life where I just want to throw everything into my career and I want

to learn as much as I can and I want to evolve and move into different roles.

The private side could be a really interesting place to do that and,

and really in a way that really is sped up compared to probably what

you, you may see in the public side.

That's interesting.

Yeah, that would be probably one of the bigger differences that I would note.

Let's talk a little more about challenges for the industry as a whole.

you know, we talked about fueling and, you know, there's a lot of people that

are, interested in hydrogen now as a potential fuel versus battery electric,

which has its limitations on distance and, and the cost and the backup with OEMs.

That's one challenge.

Another is, people are trying to figure out, you know, most

agencies now I think have decided, no, we're going to charge fares.

We need more money, not less money.

And when you do surveys and you ask people, why aren't you riding?

The cost is like fourth or fifth.

It's like, Hey, I'd like more frequency.

So, tell us about what you're seeing.

I mean, you operate, you know, nearly 40 operations around the country.

What are you seeing as challenges for the public transportation

industry as we head into 2025?

This is a December show, so it's, it's good to look at.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, I think as related specifically to fares, I think, you

know, the challenge is, is obviously there's a lot less people going to

the office every single day, right?

So you see, I think I saw a report, around some of the demographics in Paris

recently that said, you know, that the height of the commute they're seeing is

on Tuesdays and Thursdays, Mondays and Fridays, Wednesdays are pretty flat.

And I think, you know, they're, we're seeing that all around the world.

Yeah.

And so how do you, how do you kind of pivot and what do

fares look like in the future?

That'll be interesting.

I don't know that anybody's really solved that, but it's certainly a big issue

that we're going to have to deal with.

I think, specifically on the private side, one of the big issues

for us is, specific to safety.

Because we own all of the, the risk on the contracts, we, we own all of the claims

that come along with, operating a system.

So, you know, when there's, when there's some sort of an incident and

a claim opens up, well, RATP Dev or whoever the private operator is, is

dealing with the cost of that claim.

And where the agencies on their side, they have kind of limits of liability that they

get to enjoy, the private operators don't.

So there is a lot of focus right now across the entire industry

and I would say within our organization in how do we continue

to build the right safety culture.

And the organization and make sure that, you know, I always say to my team, they're

probably so sick of hearing me say it, but how do you shine the spotlight on every

corner of every part of the organization so that everybody understands their

role and responsibility around safety, both, collectively and individually.

And so we're, we're, I'd say, right smack dab in the middle of kind of

that, that, journey right now and, and getting to the right safety

culture across the organization.

I was just in LA, doing a show for Transit Unplugged TV and focusing on

their car free, Transit First Olympics.

And I was talking with, Conan Chung, who is the COO, a friend of mine

there, about their safety culture.

And I also just had a guy on the podcast recently, Steven Tu, who's

their station experience guy.

Yeah.

A whole show was around the four things they're doing, you know, from open

elevators to playing music in areas where, there's homeless encampments,

people that are experiencing homelessness or just like sitting around and living

in transit stations and, and, another thing called tap to go at the end,

tap to exit at the end of the line.

and so even big agencies like L.

A.

Metro are focused on improving their safety culture.

They want to make it feel safe for the customer.

So some people feel like, you know, they're almost sometimes

afraid to go into a station because they're not, they don't know what

they're going to experience there.

And so we do want to make it safer.

But we know that what's required, right, to face challenges

is great leaders, right?

You know, they always say, I always use this illustration.

What's the difference between Kmart and Walmart?

They both started in the same state, in the same, in the

same year, sell the same stuff.

One went bankrupt.

One went on to become the biggest company in America.

What's the difference?

Leadership, right?

Sam Walton and his leadership philosophy and all that.

So what do you think it takes to make great leaders?

Yeah, no, I think it's a great question.

It's a really timely one in this industry.

I mean, great leaders come in all shapes and sizes, right?

I mean, you don't, great leaders don't all carry the same attributes

and they're not the same people and they don't lead the same and that's

the beauty of, of a team, right?

Is having the right set of characteristics across a broader spectrum of people

that, that help just drive home and bring home the goals of the team.

And I think that our particular industry is kind of at a bit of an inflection

point when it comes to leadership as well.

We have a lot of great leaders in, in the industry today, unfortunately a lot

of them are retiring, a lot of them are retiring, and we don't have the bench that

I would like to certainly see, across, across the industry to, to backfill for

a lot of this great leadership leaving the, the industry, and so I think we're

at a point now where we have to have really comprehensive programs that focus

on those that work for us in terms of their development and helping them to go

where they want to go in their careers.

and so at RATP Dev we, we invest in those types of programs, whether they

be mentorship programs or pairing executive coaches with the right

people who you see just really have a great potential for the future.

but, you know, I think that also we're focused a bit externally, too, to say what

adjacent industries are there, whether it be the airlines or other industries where,

you know, you, you have, great leaders that have led in similar environments,

but not exactly the same, right?

And what can they bring to the table by you bringing them into the industry?

And so, you know, I've, I've, I can think of, you know, a handful of people

in our organization that if we wouldn't have brought them in over the last few

years, we wouldn't be where we are today, and they're extremely talented people,

and they didn't come specifically from public transit, you know, one, one, for

example, that I can think of, you know, came from Boeing and spent a lot of

their, their, uh, career at Boeing, and they just bring such a, a, a different

perspective on things, that I'd say I'm keep the rest of the team thinking right

thinking and learning and so I think it's this interesting combination right now

in the industry what internal investment can you make, but what can we learn from

others outside of the industry as well?

I love that.

I just had Andy Lord on the podcast.

He's the CEO of the world's largest transit system, Transport for London.

He's the commissioner.

20 years at British Airways.

Yeah.

yeah.

And, you know, they're, the lady who runs the transit system in Mississauga,

the biggest transit system in North America you never heard of, 500

buses, and it's outside of Toronto.

She just went to work at the airport there in Toronto.

So there is a lot of connection, isn't there, between our industries,

and you don't have to be in transit.

The guy I hired to run the buses at MTA in Baltimore.

He was a trucking guy for 20 years.

Bob, I love Bob.

And I said, Bob, you're going to have to convince me.

And so two hours later, I was convinced and I hired him and he's still there.

I'm gone.

I've been gone seven years.

He's still running the buses.

He's a great guy, man.

So you're right.

I love that.

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, we have to get people more comfortable

that we can teach the business.

We can't, we can't always teach leadership as much as we'd like to, maybe to some

extent, but we, we can teach the business, lots of different industries do it

across many, many different industries.

We just need to get more comfortable in ours doing the same.

Very good.

All right.

Last question would be, we're coming into 2025.

Do you have a New Year's resolution?

Anything personally or professionally?

Like me, I've been trying to walk every morning for the, and I'm

going to try to keep that up.

Get up every morning before I have my coffee, get up and go for a walk.

You know what, do you got anything like that?

Keep, keep it up.

because last year that was mine and I did keep up with my daily walks

and they have helped immensely just managing stress and just keeping focus.

So keep it up, you'll, you'll, for this year, I'm going to build on that.

I want to try to start building some weights into my, my routine as well.

Oh, like weightlifting?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's good, man.

We'll see.

We'll see.

We'll see if I can keep with it, but that's my goal.

Excellent.

Well, Matt, thanks so much for being with us today, brother.

Great to hear about the story of your career and how you're leading really

a renaissance, I think, for your company here in America, moving away

from maybe the traditional management contracts into full operating contracts.

We wish you the very best in the new year.

Thanks, Paul.

Appreciate the time.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Transit Unplugged

with our special guest, Matt Booterbaugh CEO of RATP Dev USA.

. Hi, I'm Tris Hussey, editor of the podcast, and coming up next week, we

have the first in a series of episodes from Paul's 10 day tour of Australia.

Next week, we have John Storms, Managing Director at Transit Systems

in the State of Victoria, and Mark Peters, Executive General Manager,

E Mobility and Fleet Innovation at Transit Systems for all of Australia.

They'll be talking about transit in Australia overall, their

strides in expanding their workforce, accessibility, and the

transition to zero emissions buses.

Don't forget, our year end wrap up shows are coming.

First, on Christmas Eve, we have Paul and Transit Unplugged News

Minute's Julie Gates, with a look back and a look ahead in transit.

And then, on New Year's Eve, we have Rudy Salo, transit futurist and attorney

talking with Paul about the year ahead and beyond for transit and mobility.

Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo at Modaxo we're passionate

about moving the world's people, and at Transit Unplugged, we're

passionate about telling those stories.

So until next week, ride safe and Ride happy.