[00:00:00] Eric Goranson: It's around the house.

[00:00:07] Alexander Linn: People want to interact with people and the home is very emotional. So we provide a home assistant, yes, supported by a ton of software, but you can really call a real person and say, what should I do? And I think that's super important when the demographic of homeowners are mostly baby boomers that don't wanna learn new apps all the time.

[00:00:29] Alexander Linn: like, I'm not sure anyone wants to learn new apps all the time. So we just wanted. More like a service that would give you peace of mind, and that's the difference between our subscription and our version that doesn't require a subscription. Yeah. You can use our app, like you mentioned, to get the budget report.

[00:00:45] Alexander Linn: Yeah, you can just download our app, plug in your appliance info, get a report so you've got some heads up on. When an appliance might be repaired, when it comes to remodeling and renovating your home, there is a lot to know the, we've [00:01:00] got you covered. This is

[00:01:03] Eric Goranson: around the house. Welcome to Around the House Show.

[00:01:05] Eric Goranson: This is what we talk about, everything about your home every single week. Thanks for joining us today. We're getting into technology today, which you know is one of my passions around your house. And today you've got Alexander Lynn from Ship Shape. This is something that could change how you look and care for your house.

[00:01:25] Eric Goranson: Welcome to around the house, brother

[00:01:27] Alexander Linn: Eric. Great to be here. Thanks for having me, man.

[00:01:30] Eric Goranson: You and I have been talking about this for a while and it's nice that we could. Get schedules aligned and make it happen. Man, I appreciate you coming on today.

[00:01:37] Alexander Linn: Likewise. So let's

[00:01:39] Eric Goranson: talk about what you got going on here, because I think this is where technology is going.

[00:01:45] Eric Goranson: I know this is where technology's going, and you're the guy out there waving the flag is founder and c e o of this

[00:01:52] Alexander Linn: what ship shape. Yeah, Eric, this is something that the market has been looking for and talking about for a long time, which I'll get into in a minute. But Shipshape [00:02:00] is a, it's a software platform that helps homeowners manage their energy and their maintenance and the cost of operating their homes.

[00:02:07] Alexander Linn: One of the people's biggest cost in their lives is maintaining and operating their homes, and right now there's just no trusted advisor and no real data that helps a homeowner know. When to make a repair, how efficiently their equipment's operating, what maintenance need, what maintenance needs done to help 'em save money in the long run.

[00:02:27] Alexander Linn: So ship shapes a software platform and homeowners can use an app and they can connect their smart home devices to get better data and get like a check engine light for their house where they just tap a button to get connected. The local trusted pros that can help solve the problems.

[00:02:44] Eric Goranson: See, that's great.

[00:02:45] Eric Goranson: And I'll be honest, as somebody out there that has helped homeowners and contractors navigate through the, we'll call 'em the lists out there with air quotes of the referral people out there. I'll be kind and say it's been [00:03:00] a nightmare for homeowners and contractors out there. So it's nice to see something different that is gonna actually help people navigate that versus just quite frankly throwing 'em out to the wolves.

[00:03:12] Alexander Linn: Yeah, and I'm glad you say it's both of 'em, because both sides of the market right now really struggle to a op operate efficiently cuz they're driving in the dark and it's frustrating for both parties, A lot of really great contractors trying to do the best work they can. And someone else comes in the house and unplugs something, or the homeowner decides to install something or a window gets broken.

[00:03:35] Alexander Linn: Yep. And this kinda thing can lead to a lot of problems for the work that the contractor came in and did. So it, it's not. Just the homeowners are struggling. Literally everyone who's trying to take care of a home efficiently struggles cuz there's not very good data and it's very reactive.

[00:03:52] Eric Goranson: Yeah, crazy. So from the homeowner's side, they're trying to figure out who they can trust and the contractor's side who is paying for those [00:04:00] lead referral services.

[00:04:01] Eric Goranson: When you get ahold of somebody off one of those lead referral services, they're charging that contractor for you, the lead. So you're the product that they're selling. And so the problem. Is that the contractors are going, man, I am not getting anything good outta this. I'm getting, I'm paying for a bunch of tire kickers that no one knows what's going on.

[00:04:21] Eric Goranson: And like you said, it's a disaster for both sides and it's so refreshing to see something new out there using technology to help steer information the right way. Yeah,

[00:04:32] Alexander Linn: I think what you're talking about's really interesting. There's a lack of trust that comes when people don't understand or have good information about what's happened on the other side.

[00:04:40] Alexander Linn: Yeah. And the business models that exist to help homeowners find a contractor, they really serve the contractor side of the market. That's one reason that Ship Shape's built a business model where the homeowner pays a subscription to Ship Shape to have access to home assistance services, where they get that trusted advisor.

[00:04:58] Alexander Linn: And when they pay for that, they [00:05:00] know that that means the way we make. Is by providing service to the homeowner. Right? So that keeps the trust alignment for us. And then we try and give both sides of the party good information so that there is more inherent trust in the connection. Cause there's understanding.

[00:05:16] Eric Goranson: Yeah. Like I tell people out there when it's free, By the way, you're the product they're selling. Yeah. .

[00:05:24] Alexander Linn: And that's why I think it's gonna be tough for other players in the market to do this. And I think there's some really good players, good innovators in the market. They have different business models that are not specifically designed.

[00:05:36] Alexander Linn: To be that trusted advisor to the homeowner. And

[00:05:39] Eric Goranson: what I like is I have, I've done a lot of speaking for the National Association of Home Builders over the years on home technology and smart home products. You are combining like probably five of the products that I have in my home and then throwing the contractor side and about.

[00:05:57] Eric Goranson: 20 other things that it doesn't do all in [00:06:00] one platform. And to me it's like, all right, I love one-stop shops. And to be able to do that with your home, that's pretty cool. And you couldn't budget from what I was reading about

[00:06:11] Alexander Linn: as a homeowner, you. Most people tell us they didn't really sign up to be a property manager,

[00:06:17] Alexander Linn: And next thing they know, they got a bunch of different vendors. They have contractors and a lot of different types of contractors. Your plumber doesn't work on your elec electrical work, and then they've got utilities, they've got it by power from somebody and they've got insurance. They buy manufactured products that go in their house that have warranties and require maintenance and cause damage if things go wrong.

[00:06:40] Alexander Linn: And I could go on the list is actually much bigger. . But to manage that, what we realized was all of those businesses also want to have a better connection with the customer. But none of them are really in a position because they do very uniquely different things. None of them are really in a position to provide a single solution, a complete solution to [00:07:00] the homeowner.

[00:07:01] Alexander Linn: So we wanted to be that technology partner to this industry that does so many great things for homes, just not typically making integrated software that's sensor enabled. AI to drive predictions. They do all kinds of other stuff like make the electricity the homeowners need. We can help them connect, provide that platform they're looking for, and do it in a way that, quite frankly, I think the market's been talking about this for 15 years.

[00:07:27] Alexander Linn: Yeah. Like I've been reading about this since I was a kid. My dad was working on commercial scale, H V A C technology, and I remember reading Internet of Things was a word telling them all about it. And I remember artificial intelligence was like, Didn't really work yet, but maybe it would in the future.

[00:07:46] Alexander Linn: And then several years later, we had some real breakthroughs with deep learning and machine learning. And I realized this technology that was like almost science fiction, was gonna actually go from smart factories and smart buildings and get cheap [00:08:00] enough to get all the way into the home. Yeah. And now we're made for the first time you could network all these homes together and start making it p.

[00:08:07] Alexander Linn: As opposed to just every mom and pop, find them for themselves out in a neighborhood.

[00:08:13] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And on top of that, I think what's great is for the brand new homeowner for that person that just bought their brand new home that doesn't know what it takes to follow up, maintain, take care of that. It's great.

[00:08:27] Eric Goranson: But at the same point, if you're taking care of your elderly parents that are in their forever home as somebody, you can manage it with that as well. So you've got a product really that can take care of virtually any homeowner no matter what the generational thing is because the AI is doing the work

[00:08:45] Alexander Linn: for you.

[00:08:45] Alexander Linn: And we also, yeah, the AI is very smart, and we also layer in the human c. We believe that people want to interact with people and the home is very emotional. So we provide a home assistant, yes, supported by a [00:09:00] ton of software, but you can really call a real person and say, what should I do? And I think that's super important when the demographic of homeowners are mostly baby boomers.

[00:09:10] Alexander Linn: Don't wanna learn new apps all the time, , in fact, I'm not sure anyone wants to learn new apps all the time. So we just wanted to make it more like a service that would give you peace of mind, and that's the difference between our subscription and our version that doesn't require the subscription. You can use our app, like you mentioned, to get the budget report.

[00:09:30] Alexander Linn: Yeah, you can just download our app, plug in your appliance info, get a report so you've got some heads up on when an appliance might need repaired and how long does it typically last? Yeah, 10 years or 20 years. And how much might it cost? So we'll give you that information at out without any cost. But if you want to connect your thermostat and leak sensors and power sensors.

[00:09:54] Alexander Linn: And have someone monitor it, like a security system, and then be able to call that person [00:10:00] when you need help. That's a service we provide and most people want ship shape for the service more than they want it for the technology.

[00:10:08] Eric Goranson: Yeah. The. If you wanna go see what that stuff is, it's easy to sit there and Google it, but that service is where, to me, the value is.

[00:10:16] Eric Goranson: That's where it is. I have an AI security system out front and I love it. It, it mixes human with ai. It's great. And this is just such an extension into your home and I love that it can go through and you can really budget things down the road to, it tracks things within your home, so you. How it's functioning, right?

[00:10:40] Alexander Linn: One of the reasons why you just brought this up a minute ago, homes are expensive and home affordability is a problem. So how can we address the cost of operating homes if I don't know that I might have to pay $10,000 to replace an air conditioning system when I go buy my house? This is very common.

[00:10:58] Alexander Linn: First time home buyers especially [00:11:00] go buy a house. They remodel the bathroom, they do some other cosmetic repairs, and then they realize that they're taken out at expensive interest rates to do absolutely critical repairs. Fix a broken air conditioning unit in the middle of the summer. And how did they have no idea that was coming?

[00:11:17] Alexander Linn: So that's where we use real live data that's coming from sensor. and even just tracking like how old it is because you get the inspection report. Sure. They tell you that the a AC unit works? Yep. They print on a piece of paper that certain age. Yep. They put the paper in the drawer. You get busy with your kid and your family and your job.

[00:11:38] Alexander Linn: and then you come back and you realize, oh shoot, it's already been five years and now that thing's leaking through my ceiling and I didn't bother to do the maintenance cuz I just didn't know. Yeah. So that's where having a system that actually has some of that data and can just pop up and say, Hey, you have an air conditioning unit that just turned 15 years old and yep, it might need maintenance and it might need repaired.

[00:11:59] Alexander Linn: And if [00:12:00] you need, importantly one place homeowners really get stuck is where do I get. That's where we have a trusted network of providers, whether it's a contractor or a utility. If I want to save money on my energy, they can click get help. And there's all kinds of great programs from utilities to save money that most homeowners don't even really know about.

[00:12:19] Alexander Linn: Oh, so we can use that real data to be proactive and give 'em advice about how to really save money on an area that is, it's a big expense and it really does impact how much. People can afford. When you look at what the actual true cost of it is with maintenance and energy,

[00:12:36] Eric Goranson: that's the thing that's cool is that maintenance is one of those things that there's really two questions I get the most out of this show.

[00:12:43] Eric Goranson: One is maintenance questions. When do I have that H V A C system serviced? Is that once a year, twice a year, every other year? What is that? And. They're searching for somebody to work with. Mm-hmm. , I need this person. Who do you trust? And [00:13:00] you really have both of those boxes checked all in a program. And that's fascinating

[00:13:06] Alexander Linn: to me.

[00:13:07] Alexander Linn: Yeah. We thought you basically have to, we had to close that whole loop. And we even realized that if we're gonna use sensor data, let's say for example, we see there's a humidity problem. And we know that means mold is likely to grow and that can cause major health risk and property damage. When we tell them that we need to not only have a button they can push that says, help me get a professional to fix the issue.

[00:13:30] Alexander Linn: Yep. We also need to give them information. From the Environmental Protection Agency about what the consequences are if they don't do anything. Mm-hmm. and from the database of available subsidies so they understand if there is any kind of tax incentive or financial support that can help to get it done.

[00:13:47] Alexander Linn: And even to to lending partners because we have to help resolve the issues. The typical home in the United States. Like tens of thousands of dollars in many regions of the country, more than $30,000 of work to make that [00:14:00] home modernized. Yeah, so it's got the proper insulation, relatively efficient, electric appliances, and you're not susceptible to significant damage, health issues or energy waste.

[00:14:15] Alexander Linn: But the homes are old and we need to figure out an efficient way to fix. And when we fix 'em, we need to make sure that it works. So one thing we've found is we've done pilots with utilities and found that you do a weatherization project, one little thing goes wrong, the entire ROI of that project can go away.

[00:14:35] Alexander Linn: So a homeowner thinks they spent their good money and to no fault of their own, they realize. They didn't get the full benefit and it didn't get the payback period. And we can help use the sensor data to make sure in the monitoring to make sure that sometimes it's as simple as something got unplugged or a window's broken, and that ends up making a big

[00:14:54] Eric Goranson: difference.

[00:14:56] Eric Goranson: Yeah, it's amazing. I know so many people that. That got the rebate from their [00:15:00] utility in wet. Okay, I'm gonna go weatherization, I'm gonna tighten this home up. But the company that came in didn't really plan ahead or think ahead and think that, wait a minute, I'm gonna seal this home up. But I didn't deal with the moist, musty air inside the house.

[00:15:17] Eric Goranson: And so all of a sudden they've gotta. The house was breathing so well, so now they've got a 70% relative humidity inside the house, and now they've got a mold issue. Your program catches that with humidity sensors.

[00:15:30] Alexander Linn: That's right, and that's a perfect example of where you've got these silos in the house where you really good certified experts, professionals very smart, know what they're doing.

[00:15:39] Alexander Linn: But they don't necessarily all talk to each other, and so there's some downstream consequences. And for the homeowner, it's especially challenging to manage because they may call two or three different types of providers. Not sure. They may call their insurance company and their insurance company may not know what to do.

[00:15:55] Alexander Linn: They're not there. And they may call an HVAC company who might say, , they need a mold [00:16:00] specialist. And here are the homeowners going up their hands saying, what do I do? And it's all after the fact when it's too late and it's already a big problem. Yeah. And yes, simple sensors like our humidity and temperature sensors, and you've seen these on the market your customers have, and there's nothing, we don't make simple sensors.

[00:16:17] Alexander Linn: We just realize that the customers. Some help understanding that data. Just having more alerts come up. We get how many emails and push notifications do we get these days. Just having more alerts that come to you didn't really help solve the problem. It's one of the things we learned with the insurance partners.

[00:16:36] Alexander Linn: Yeah, it's not enough. You send someone a leak alert. You would think every homeowner would deal with that, but some people have a lot of other things going on in their life. Maybe they're racing out to work and they're already overwhelmed with something else. They don't even know who to call and next thing they know that leak alert became a mold problem.

[00:16:52] Alexander Linn: And that's what our human service, someone calls out and says, Hey, I'm your home assistant and this is what this [00:17:00] means really. Big difference in mitigating the risk, and

[00:17:03] Eric Goranson: then that $500 leak turned into a five or $10,000 repair because you didn't get on it and it's maybe somebody's heading to the soccer game and all I'll deal with it, get when I get home.

[00:17:14] Eric Goranson: And then every other push notification on your phone that's way behind. You've forgotten it. You're off to the next thing. That's really smart and it saves you money in the long run no matter what you're doing, because now you've got something that is one sensing that maybe that water heater your sump pump or your dehumidifier to see if it's working hvac, whatever else, but you've got an active system that's saying, Hey man, you got a problem.

[00:17:40] Alexander Linn: And that reactive interaction with our home. Oh, it wastes a lot of money. We, in America, spend almost 1 trillion a year with contractors, utilities, insurance, and manufacturers. And when we look at that, depending on the different area of the market, but approximately 30% of that's wasted. [00:18:00] Yep. So we're talking like 300 billion a year.

[00:18:03] Alexander Linn: We're wasting taking care of our homes. Almost a third of the money we spend, that is actually money that we could be using to improve the world and do better things that make our houses more healthy. But instead, we're spending the money on fixing old problems. And we really we're gonna have to modernize our homes pretty quickly to reach our goals in terms of, of things like CO2 emissions and home health and the health of our communities.

[00:18:30] Alexander Linn: Now. These are really important economic development goals for us. Yeah. And we've got to modernize our homes and we need to spend that money efficiently, not wasting it because we just didn't know. Yeah. It's a breakthrough and, and there's a lot of, Putting new technology into houses and mm-hmm. , I actually wrote a paper on predictive maintenance in the home and really encouraging the whole market to say, let's talk more about these applications.

[00:18:57] Alexander Linn: Let's build more awareness. Let's help [00:19:00] contractors, utilities, insurance, and homeowners. You know, let's help 'em all. Get this put in, let's help the manufacturers. Let's all work together faster, because that'll. Really good economic impact for our communities.

[00:19:13] Eric Goranson: It's always cheaper than to maintain it, than it is to have to not maintain it and fix it every single time.

[00:19:20] Eric Goranson: And then to me, this or the golden, this is beyond your typical homeowner that. Homeowner that has maybe the one or two rental properties, right? They've got maybe the duplex on the other side of town. This would be the dream because now you've got another house or something that you're trying to manage that is a rental property.

[00:19:41] Eric Goranson: You could put that on your rental properties, and it's giving you real-time information of how the sum pump's working, how all this stuff's working, and you can actually use that as well, right? To maintain those income properties for you. If you had. One or two rentals across town.

[00:19:58] Alexander Linn: Yeah, absolutely. It's really [00:20:00] cool.

[00:20:00] Alexander Linn: A vacation home, they put multiple homes in there, so not only are you getting one app that'll give you alerts about your water heater and your air conditioning system, and your refrigerator and your dehumidifier, it connects you to all these appliances, all these providers. You could use that same app for multiple vacation homes and a, yeah, there are a lot of renters, in fact, a lot of mom and pop.

[00:20:24] Alexander Linn: Landlords use our app because, but they don't have a property management software that really works to manage four or five homes and they struggle with a lot of these same problems. And actually most of the rental homes out there, people talk about all of Wall Street buying up all these rental homes and we're, we're closely connected with a lot of those businesses and look forward to helping them as well.

[00:20:45] Alexander Linn: Sure. But most rental homes are owned by Mom and Pop. No question. Less than 10 homes who are trying to find a way to build some wealth. Mm-hmm. . And they're able to produce some hard work to help manage these rental homes. And this is a [00:21:00] tool that totally changes the game because the renter really doesn't have a lot of economic alignment, incentive alignment.

[00:21:06] Alexander Linn: To even help manage the long term cost and the landowner ends up getting stuck with a lot of damage that they would've liked to prevent. And this system can really help 'em with it. The

[00:21:17] Eric Goranson: renter, and I've seen this cuz I've had rentals in the past, and the renter goes, oh man, that some pump's not working right.

[00:21:24] Eric Goranson: There's water in the crawl, spacer, basement. Man, I got a busy week this week. I don't wanna have to wait around here, have the landlord walking through the place. It's almost like its own inspection. I don't have time to clean the house. You know how the drill goes. And then that stuff just gets to be unintentional deferred maintenance because it's a hassle for that renter.

[00:21:46] Eric Goranson: and then the landlord's chewing up money because that's just something's gone wrong and they can't fix it, and they don't even know that

[00:21:53] Alexander Linn: something's gone wrong. And back to that resource problem mean the price of lumber has skyrocketed. Mm-hmm. , [00:22:00] one of the most expensive repairs someone can do is to repair the baseboards and their foundation because they've grown a lot of.

[00:22:06] Alexander Linn: Mold or had water damage issues. Yep. And it's a problem where now you're taking those baseboards, filling up the landfill, cutting down more trees to put 'em back. And we really need to use those to build more homes because we're like millions of homes short to have the housing we need for this generation.

[00:22:23] Alexander Linn: That's very aggressively starting to, you know, form new households and a generation that currently lives in homes who really doesn't wanna move out. People love air homes. They don't wanna move out. No. So we need more homes and we need to use our limited resources to build new homes. Not replace stuff that we could have dealt with.

[00:22:42] Alexander Linn: But you're right. The whole market's just not very efficient. It's no one's fault is the interesting thing. Yeah. Everybody wants this and we get so much support. Everybody wants a better. Interaction with the home, but it's very challenging. Yeah, there's a lot of different [00:23:00] moving pieces and I think it's really only in the last few years we've gotten to a place where the technology exists for it to even make sense to be able to do this.

[00:23:08] Alexander Linn: Yeah.

[00:23:09] Eric Goranson: So a couple questions I have for you. One of 'em, I'm gonna go for the skeptic out there. There's so many people out there that, that don't like smart home tech because they're very concerned about security and a lot of the time it's because they don't really understand. How all this works. They see the headlines on TV that something got hacked or anything else.

[00:23:30] Eric Goranson: How does security play into effect with this, with your system?

[00:23:35] Alexander Linn: Yeah, it's a great question. It's the most important question because to be the trusted advisor to the homeowner, We have to keep their trust and technology is honestly in a crisis of trust right now. Sure. And so there's a few things that we do before starting this company was at Salesforce and they've really prioritized building trust and their platform and how they work with their customers.

[00:23:57] Alexander Linn: So I've tried to learn everything I could from an [00:24:00] enterprise grade software company that's very successful at maintaining trust. To build that into not only our technology platform, but also our culture and our values. So we have proprietary enterprise grade security capabilities that we've added above and beyond what typical device makers or smart home products might have, because we've always looked at this as an enterprise grade platform.

[00:24:24] Alexander Linn: Yeah. Now the second thing is like we are mindful about what data we collect. We don't use cameras and microphones, even though it can be really helpful, we don't use those devices because it is more sensitive data. So when we're looking at how many watts of electricity is a sump pump using mm-hmm. , most of our customers tell us they're less concerned about that data.

[00:24:48] Alexander Linn: Then they might be other data. So we try and be mindful about what data we collect, and then we're always transparent. If we send an alert, it's not a black box, we tell you what data did we look at that [00:25:00] made us send you that? It's not like we're listening to the whatever. People tend to think that all kinds of crazy things are going on because they don't know how an ad popped up.

[00:25:09] Alexander Linn: So we just make sure we tell 'em, here's what. And then we give the customer the right if. If they ever want to, they can literally download all their data and take it with them. It's their data. Yeah. We're just helping them manage it and use it to save money.

[00:25:23] Eric Goranson: That's great. Anybody that's ever looked and did a deep dive into what their Alexa on their countertop is doing and recording.

[00:25:31] Eric Goranson: Just trying to ha to ma for them to manage that data in your voice and what you are talking about is completely different than what you guys

[00:25:39] Alexander Linn: are doing. Yeah. And there, there's another important part about it and I think, oh, most of these companies are really using the data in the right way and trying to help the customers.

[00:25:52] Alexander Linn: And there are vulnerabilities that can come from hackers on the internet. , a lot of people, and the [00:26:00] industry has matured a lot in how we secure this device data. But another part that's really important is how do you align the long-term trust with the stakeholders? So how do you create a system where there's gonna be a good interest in how we use the data in a way that makes the customer better and the world better?

[00:26:19] Alexander Linn: So we built a philanthropic model in our business that we learned from Salesforce. and ours was to set aside some equity for we call the two twenty two model. We set aside some equity for making grants to homeowners who need to make improvements to their homes. We subsidize our products, so we just gave a donation to have Habitat for Humanity.

[00:26:42] Alexander Linn: Nice to connect a bunch of homes for them, and we give our employees times to go volunteer five days a year to volunteer in the community. Cool. As we do that, they're. tied into and connected to. We are our, our business model, our culture is connected to the customer. [00:27:00] Mm-hmm. . And when you think about it, like that's the ultimate concern with technology, is the technology that's being built gonna be used to help me or gonna be used against me.

[00:27:09] Alexander Linn: So it's even more than just, is my firewall gonna be breached? It's after Alex, Len is gone. Yep. What is Ship Shape's motivation gonna be with the. And I really wanted to make sure that there would be hyper alignment with the real people, communities, the economic outcomes we're trying to impact, so that anyone who comes up with a new creative way to use the data is doing it within those values and with that connection to make sure there's a long-term mission.

[00:27:38] Alexander Linn: To be good for homeowners. Yeah.

[00:27:41] Eric Goranson: And to be honest, let's look at what the hackers do out there anyway. There's not much interest in what Mrs. Smith's sum pump is pulling as far as how many amps it's pulling. That's not valuable data to somebody.

[00:27:56] Alexander Linn: N no, it's, it's not. It's pretty low on the, [00:28:00] but I understand where people are coming from where, yeah, you've had a couple scary things happen or you've read about something and.

[00:28:06] Alexander Linn: I think one thing we all need to do as an industry which is happening is. Just increase the transparency around what happens with the data so that the consumers can better understand. And that's gonna be a really big challenge with artificial intelligence because it is hard to understand how the system works as it goes through iterations of learning.

[00:28:28] Alexander Linn: So there are things that are being done to make sure that's more transparent and I think. Having real data is a big part of that, and having that data in the palm of your hands is a big part. It's not like your utility just turned your air conditioning unit off because it was good for the grid. In our scenario you got, now you understand that right now the utility's having a really hard time serving powered everyone who needs it.

[00:28:52] Alexander Linn: Yep. So if you anticipate in the program and and turn your AC unit down for a little bit, it would really help. That transparency alone is [00:29:00] missing from the market. So you end up with people being. Why is my utility turning off my thermostat? Because they don't know. And if we can really build some education, we can create more trucks.

[00:29:09] Alexander Linn: Yeah, no

[00:29:10] Eric Goranson: question. Let's talk about that information, because obviously this has to have sensors in certain areas. You've gotta have that sensor for the or something that's measuring the everything from the sump pump to the wine fridge to. For your H V A C system, how do you guys track all that stuff within the home?

[00:29:30] Alexander Linn: Yeah, it's a great question. We tried to keep it very simple so that we would have a universal platform that worked for all the appliances. And what I mean by that is we track power, water, temperature, humidity. Okay? Okay. And with those. Piece of data. We get it from a smart plug or an environmental sensor or maybe an, an appliance already has that data cuz it's a connected appliance.

[00:29:56] Alexander Linn: A lot of data. We don't actually Exactly. A lot more do. [00:30:00] We don't actually care ex what device it comes from. We're device agnostic. We're really a, a software company that can create some interoperability by plugging in the same forms of data. And we have a ability to transform that data into the right structure and.

[00:30:15] Alexander Linn: then make it all talk together so that we can use it to drive these predictions about how to manage your home. And in doing so, we've built a sort of app platform where, you know, connected appliance maker who maybe in one specific sort of silo of the market, mm-hmm. is able to build on our platform and their customers now can have that single app solution that so many customers want and we can now help.

[00:30:43] Alexander Linn: Connected device manufacturer unlock more value and also get access to some A recurring revenue. Yeah. Or some aftermarket service revenue, which is a breakthrough because they've been, manufacturers have innovated, they've spent money on that, and they're [00:31:00] housing that data. Now it's expensive, and we wanna help them actually get the service revenue too.

[00:31:07] Alexander Linn: So we look at this as it's a win-win for everybody. We're not a disruptive business. We're actually a business saying we provide this unique platform, we can create some ongoing services and help the whole market innovate faster.

[00:31:21] Eric Goranson: Yeah, and you look at appliances or H V A C or whatever else you have around your home that's plugged into the wall, if it's not working correctly, it's working inefficiently.

[00:31:30] Eric Goranson: So you're also saving people money in the long run because that refrigerator that maybe has a bad door. Whereas using way too many energy or needs to be maintained is cranking the power bill out and it's not getting any cheaper out there for any of these utilities. So something that's working efficiently saves you money.

[00:31:49] Eric Goranson: And so that ends up being something that potentially could be pays for itself pretty quickly when things are working correctly.

[00:31:57] Alexander Linn: Yeah, it does add up pretty quickly. Like here's [00:32:00] an example of a smart. We've got lots of different smart plugs. This costs like $20. This is a, a very heavy duty one, so it costs a little bit more.

[00:32:08] Alexander Linn: They're cheap little devices and really quickly you can find that, let's say a dehumidifier for example. A lot of people don't know how much energy a dehumidifier down in the basement or crawlspace might use. If you open, leave that door open and it starts running constantly. Next thing you know, we'll see it.

[00:32:26] Alexander Linn: It's wasting $30 a month, $40 a month in energy. Yeah. It doesn't take very long to pay back the system when you catch one little thing going wrong and most people who have lived in house for very long know that it doesn't take long to catch something going wrong.

[00:32:43] Eric Goranson: Yeah, absolutely. Like I have a home energy monitor in my house.

[00:32:47] Eric Goranson: I, uh, my house is one big test bed for home tech stuff, so I have the sense home energy monitor. I have caught more problems. By me going, what's that spike doing? Oh, [00:33:00] what's that's on? And I go take a look at it and go, oh wow, okay. I know exactly what that, what that space heater is costing me. That's down in the basement or that old beer fridge out there that is, Using three times the energy than what my nice new fridge is in the house.

[00:33:17] Eric Goranson: Now you can make informed decisions on either maintenance or replacement,

[00:33:22] Alexander Linn: and that's important because you, Eric, are a better AI than any AI we have out there. The humans are actually really good at noticing that patterns aren't matching right. Something looks off. Why is there a spike in this data? If they just had access to the information, then we could empower a lot of people to get that visibility and help understand, and that actually improves the system as we learn more from our customers that catch more scenarios.

[00:33:49] Alexander Linn: And that, by the way, the device had mentioned since they've been a real leader in this market pushing innovation for a long time, it's been very exciting to see some of their success recently, and we've [00:34:00] worked closely with them on building their device into our platform. Yeah, so that. When you get that anomaly that you're pointing out now working with us, you could actually push the button to get the contractor to come install the attic insulation or whatever it might be that you need to deal with it.

[00:34:18] Alexander Linn: So that's a perfect example of how. Device makers and other, other partners in the market who have access to some data are saying, how do we help our customers take action on it? And that's where Ship Shapes platform really comes in.

[00:34:32] And

[00:34:32] Eric Goranson: to show this technology. I was standing probably three and a half years ago, so it's been a bit, I was standing in Cambridge.

[00:34:39] Eric Goranson: At their office and I'm sitting there with their C E O standing there and they needed to have my login to access my system. So we wanted to look at real time what was going in my house in Portland, Oregon. So he signs in, we're looking at it. He looks over at my washing machine at the time. And goes, oh wow, you got a GE front loader?[00:35:00]

[00:35:01] Eric Goranson: And I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, I can see by the electrical how the signal's in. That's how GE does their front load washing machines. And so I can see that the way that's running, that's a, uh, GE front loader and I'm like, it shows you how that data can really help you. Yeah, it tells a story.

[00:35:19] Alexander Linn: It, it does.

[00:35:20] Alexander Linn: And they've gotten so smart now that they're gonna deploy their software into smart meters with utility partners. So you don't even have to put their hardware in. And they're so good at analyzing that power data. Yeah. They can look at all the power data going through the smart meter and say, What type of appliance it is and if it's acting normally, and help you manage that.

[00:35:40] Alexander Linn: So yeah, they've done a lot of work to lead the market on figuring out how you analyze that data and it's incredible what they can do

[00:35:46] Eric Goranson: now. And that's a perfect example of what you guys are doing. You are partnering all of these companies out there that are doing really well in their segment, right?

[00:35:55] Eric Goranson: You're now the web that's tying them all together and presenting it to a homeowner going, [00:36:00] okay, here we. This is what you need to do to take care of your house. And that's beautiful, man.

[00:36:05] Alexander Linn: I like it. Yeah, it's a really special opportunity because we can elevate our partners and we don't wanna make the devices that they make, we don't want to do the contracting work or build power plants.

[00:36:21] Alexander Linn: These aren't our businesses. We are really good at software and building that software service to help manage these homes, and they're really good at what they do, and it's just great to be, everyone talks about disruption so much and building a business. I think now it's really possible to focus on how do you design next generation business models that are about creating a win-win and finding a way to really.

[00:36:47] Alexander Linn: The economy and the community with the technology, and we can choose how to use it. Yeah. And I've thought a long time about how to do it in a way that would be a win-win, and really help improve the [00:37:00] economy and the community. That's

[00:37:01] Eric Goranson: brilliant, man. And then on top of it, you think about how many sensors are in your house, right?

[00:37:06] Eric Goranson: People forget that maybe that LG TV or Samsung TV on the wall has a temperature sensor in it. Or things that you don't think are actually monitoring things within that, if you can gain access to that, gives you more data around

[00:37:21] Alexander Linn: the house. That's exactly right. And a ton of it is, it's not being used and it's not being used as well as it could because it's not all talking to each other.

[00:37:30] Alexander Linn: And I saw some of these predictions back in 2015 when I first started working. Some prototypes of ship shape and there were forecasts that homes were gonna have 200 sensors in 'em within the next 20 years. Here we are and sure enough, homes are filling with sensors. And remember when I, when this happened with cars, got all these electronics in them and the.

[00:37:52] Eric Goranson: And then you are always in the service department, ,

[00:37:55] Alexander Linn: then you're all in the service department. So homes are getting more complicated. Mm-hmm. , the technology [00:38:00] is going in that we can really tap into and build that layer on top of the sensors that are out there. And there's a lot of talk about interoperability in the market.

[00:38:11] Alexander Linn: Sure. And most of that talks about interoperability around if I've got a universal remote control, can I get everything on one remote? And if I push the button, does the light turn on really quickly? That interoperability is definitely valuable, but I believe that the most valuable interoperability at the data layer where you use the data to actually, whether it came from your ther.

[00:38:34] Alexander Linn: Or your refrigerator. If you got a humidity reading in your living room that says you're running high humidity, let's use that to trigger the alert that you could have a mold issue. And the real interoperability is connect you to the provider or the service provider. It helps you solve the issue because if, if you do that, you could make the home effectively smart enough to take care of itself.

[00:38:59] Alexander Linn: Using the data [00:39:00] that already exists so the homeowner could go about their normal life and not worry about being a property manager. And that's fundamentally, we believe that you've gotta make the house basically smart enough to take care of itself so that every home could be safe, reliable, and efficient.

[00:39:16] Alexander Linn: because the people living in the homes are just not experts at all this stuff, and they're not gonna become experts. So we're looking at this in a world of just give 'em peace of mind and take it as much off their plate, but always keep 'em in control with visibility. So they're in the driver's seat, but they don't have to do all the tough stuff.

[00:39:35] Eric Goranson: Yeah, and it's great because there's so many great products out there. Like when I was down, At Design of Construction Week, I was doing a show that we aired a few weeks ago with Bro NuTone and they won Best in Best Indoor product, which is their Overture system, which is a humidity, air quality sensing system that runs around the entire house.

[00:39:55] Eric Goranson: Includes, it'll run your Bath fans, it'll run your E R V system. [00:40:00] It's live monitoring. Your air quality, think of the data that's coming off that thing that you guys have the opportunity to grab at some point.

[00:40:09] Alexander Linn: Yeah, absolutely. It's incredible and there's so many innovative products that are being built just like that one going into these houses and they're doing a lot of the innovation and what do you do with the data?

[00:40:20] Alexander Linn: Yeah, so it's not, what we do is when we step in and we bring that all together. Sometimes there's two different systems that interact together. Like a good one I use a lot is if you got air conditioning in your house, central air conditioning, and you have a crawlspace and you have a dehumidifier in your crawlspace.

[00:40:38] Alexander Linn: Yep. Those appliances are really linked together, but. The contractors that work on 'em are typically different contractors, and if those are both connected to data sources, they don't know that they work together. Yep. So we can look at both sets of that and add that additional value, even though Yeah. The air conditioning device makers are getting really smart.

[00:40:58] Alexander Linn: Sure. And we work with [00:41:00] Eco B, we work with Honeywell. They're getting really smart at how to use that data. Yeah. We just have to have a little bit different perspective and a way to connect to the contractors.

[00:41:09] Eric Goranson: Yeah. You've got the access because that dehumidifier down there is made from a completely different company than your H V A C system is, and so those two just aren't built or designed to talk together and you're that.

[00:41:21] Eric Goranson: Interconnecting link that'll make that happen.

[00:41:25] Alexander Linn: Yeah, it's really exciting. It's really exciting that the market has all gotten to that level. I looked at, I was out at CES in 2015 looking at this, and the market really wasn't ready to integrate and partner. But now the market's matured a lot more. A lot of devices are in homes, and these businesses have gotten much more mature with their, with their devices and their software systems.

[00:41:49] Alexander Linn: The time for integration, interoperability in the market, and it's gonna unlock a whole new wave of value for homeowner.

[00:41:58] Eric Goranson: No question. And it's funny, I think what [00:42:00] caused that, at least in my opinion, is, is that we made everything smart we could. You had the smart race cooker, you had the smart whatever out there, and all of a sudden, Where's the next innovation?

[00:42:10] Eric Goranson: People went, okay, I'm tired of having 42 apps on my phone. How do we start to think about making something work

[00:42:16] Alexander Linn: together? Yep. Hey, well that's the beauty of it. You try a lot of things and that's our great economy at work. Trying a bunch of different things and pushing and figuring out what, what really works.

[00:42:27] Alexander Linn: And I think the customer feels like that. Maybe the smart home has under deliver. and I think actually there's been so much experimentation done, and ultimately we're gonna see a lot more value that'll come in this next phase because of all the experimentation that was done. Sure.

[00:42:44] Eric Goranson: I've got what, five or six different brands of light switches in my house because I'm testing out, something new comes out, I'm like, Ooh, let's go play with that.

[00:42:52] Eric Goranson: And it's great to be able to control that stuff and to be able to man manage it. But man, you guys are doing some absolutely [00:43:00] great stuff that's gonna help. Really all homeowners out there. What have we not talked about today? Man?

[00:43:07] Alexander Linn: Gosh, this has been an awesome interview. We've covered a lot. I think what I would just reiterate is that the value in what we're working on as an industry, Is so important right now to help people with their homes.

[00:43:22] Alexander Linn: Homes are not just about dollars and cents. Homes are about emotional wellbeing. It's literally like the bedrock of the American dream. It's the idea of having your home and if your home is working against you. I did a little bit of work helping with the nonprofit that my dad was working on, teaching entrepreneurship to orphans, and we were trying to help them, empower them to become self-sufficient.

[00:43:51] Alexander Linn: And oh, there was a participation rate problem where a number of individuals wouldn't participate and take advantage of the program and go start a, we [00:44:00] found that was highly associated. Shelter insecurity and food insecurity. Wow. And what's amazing is right now in America, we've got all these resources.

[00:44:11] Alexander Linn: We're building rockets to put billionaires in space. Yep. And literally less than a mile from where I sit, a kid's gonna miss school today from an asthma attack because mold's growing in the air conditioning docks. , and that happens 10 times more often in our low income and vulnerable populations. So just think about if you put all that together, the fact that our homes are bogging people down, even in America where we have all these resources, it is making it harder for everyone to participate in the economy and it's making.

[00:44:45] Alexander Linn: Frustrated cuz it's so emotional. Mm-hmm. . So if we can address this issue with the homes, we can do a lot to help everybody go out into the world and do what it is that they do and all. We've got a lot of great challenges in the world and it's [00:45:00] sometimes scary to turn on the tv. I think the way we address that is by engaging the world's population, getting people set up to focus on the right things.

[00:45:11] Alexander Linn: And when we do that, The world could work together to solve great problems. So I know that sounds like crazy, but I really believe the home is tied to so much more than dollars and cents. It

[00:45:23] Eric Goranson: is. And there's hundreds of thousands of people in the country right now that are just barely holding onto that home.

[00:45:31] Eric Goranson: That is their shelter and their biggest investment, and you've got something here that's gonna help them manage that. And give them a better chance of staying in that home instead of out in an apartment or even worse in some shelter someplace. And man, thanks for all you're doing with this. This is gonna be a game changer for homeowners out there and I'm excited

[00:45:49] Alexander Linn: to see where it goes.

[00:45:50] Alexander Linn: Thank you. And Eric, thanks for having me. And I agree. Thanks for what you're doing and the whole rest of the industry. Thank you to every one of our partners who say, and I want to be [00:46:00] a part of helping improve these outcomes for homeowners. I think it's. Really inspiring to me every day to see how much progress we're making.

[00:46:06] Alexander Linn: So great to meet you, and thank you so much for having me on the show, and I hope we can do this again

[00:46:11] Eric Goranson: soon. We will. What's the best place for people to find shipshape? Just go to our

[00:46:15] Alexander Linn: website, www.shipshape.ai. And you got a phone number there. And my real person, I'm sitting in actually right now, Birmingham, Alabama.

[00:46:25] Alexander Linn: We'll pick up the phone and, and be there to help you.

[00:46:28] Eric Goranson: All right, Alex, thanks for coming on today, brother.

[00:46:30] Alexander Linn: Thanks Eric. Have a great day.

[00:46:32] Eric Goranson: I'm Eric G, and you've been listening to Around the House