Intro: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly.

Intro: On this episode, I'm joined by fly designer, author, outfitter,

Intro: and all-around fishy dude, Greg Sanyo.

Intro: We start in Girard, Pennsylvania, and cover it all from early mentors to building

Intro: his brand, Schultz Outfitters, Montana Fly Company, and his latest endeavor, the Pack Mule 300.

Intro: Greg is never afraid to tell you what he thinks, so strap in for a little unvarnished seño.

Intro: But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items.

Intro: If you like the podcast, please tell a friend, and please subscribe and leave

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Intro: And a shout out to our sponsor, Trout Routes. As I mentioned last time,

Intro: I've known Zach and the team at Trout Routes almost before Zach had a team at Trout Routes.

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Intro: Now, on to our interview.

Marvin: Well, Greg, welcome to the Articulate Fly.

Greg: Thanks for having me, man. It's good to hear your voice. I hope you had a good day today.

Marvin: Yeah, it was good. You know, I've been digging out. I was slacking last week

Marvin: out fishing, so I'm kind of back in the saddle, but glad we were able to make this happen.

Marvin: We have a tradition on the Articulate Fly, Greg. We like to ask all of our guests

Marvin: to share their earliest fishing memory.

Greg: Earliest oh man um i have to

Greg: go all the way back to being like

Greg: six seven eight years old opening

Greg: day of trout season in pennsylvania with my dad you

Greg: know we used to get up super early go to the uh legion

Greg: park in uh in gerrard and

Greg: have this community breakfast before

Greg: you would get down on the river and uh

Greg: you know it brings back memories all that kind of stuff

Greg: when you you ask what your earliest memory you know the smell of salmon eggs

Greg: in a jar salted minnows you know guys putting grubs on all that ultra light

Greg: fishing for stock trout you know it's kind of the first place i fell in love

Greg: with everything elk creek was uh just the atmosphere of uh that that traditional

Greg: uh trout opener in pennsylvania yeah.

Marvin: And you probably ate enough pancakes that you felt too sick almost to fish right.

Greg: No i i was i could shovel it in when i was a little man i could never get enough

Greg: i was hungry 10 minutes later yeah.

Marvin: Uh link sausages too i imagine right.

Greg: Oh oh yeah 100 and.

Marvin: They weren't the turkey.

Greg: Link sausages just for the record folks no oh no oh no it was a giant pile of the good stuff.

Marvin: Yeah. And so, uh, so Greg, when did you come to the dark side of fly fishing?

Greg: You know, it was still, still really young. It's, uh, I was lucky.

Greg: I had, uh, I had a best friend that, uh, Jason Gregory is his name,

Greg: but he, uh, he was fly fishing and he was, uh, kind of that first person I saw doing it.

Greg: And I wanted to do that. And, uh, that's how I would say I got into it.

Greg: Then I went up to we had a buyer's fair in Girard and I bought myself a Martin

Greg: Rod and reel combo from them.

Greg: When you got Elk Creek at your feet, at that time, it was full of Coho,

Greg: Kings, Brown Trout, you had Steelhead.

Greg: You know it was like the best place you could grow up as a young kid on the fly fish.

Marvin: Yeah it's kind of funny those kind of good old days where you were kind of turned

Marvin: loose as a kid right 100 right like and it's kind of funny like you know no

Marvin: one was worried about you getting abducted um you know all you had to do was

Marvin: kind of be home you know by dark right.

Greg: Well, that's the nice thing with small communities, too. You know,

Greg: everybody's kind of spread out and live in different areas.

Greg: You know, Jason used to live right above the hill on this side.

Greg: I lived in town on that side of the creek, you know. So, it's sun up till sun down.

Greg: I mean, you were always a quick walk to somebody's house to get a ride if you

Greg: needed one. So, it was perfect.

Marvin: Yeah. It's pretty cool. Does anyone kind of come to mind that you would say

Marvin: kind of mentored you on your fly fishing journey? You can have more than one.

Greg: Yeah you know i didn't really have the traditional mentor like like you know

Greg: the use of the term for i like i said i think i would credit my friendship with

Greg: uh jason here you know he was always uh,

Greg: wanting to explore and he was like he had the same energy i did he wanted to

Greg: fish every waking moment of our youth just how how many days and how many hours

Greg: can we spend out there especially during steelhead.

Greg: That was, uh, that was pretty much the pinnacle point that set everything in motion for me.

Greg: Um, if I had to credit somebody, you know, I would, I would credit,

Greg: uh, Clyde Murray, uh, which worked up at Follies and fly shop.

Greg: Um, he was a gem, you know, it's sad that he's not around anymore.

Greg: He could have benefited a lot of people still today, but he took my fly tying

Greg: skills to another level and gave me the motivation and, Gave me some determination

Greg: to go ahead and have the courage to do some of the different things I wanted to do.

Greg: So those would be, you know, the people that early on, like kind of helped give

Greg: me, uh, you know, that energy to keep going.

Marvin: Yeah. And I would imagine too, kind of given the time period,

Marvin: that was probably a truly kind of old school fly shop, right?

Greg: Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're talking 500 square feet, you know,

Greg: just a small little place right next to the river.

Greg: And then it's all event is a campground, which still is. It all exists today.

Greg: You can still go to the fly shop. You can go to the campground.

Greg: And it's like one of those like out of a storybook, you know,

Greg: just that small little shack on the river, you know, surrounded by campers and

Greg: tents. and you know it's like the perfect place to go.

Marvin: Yeah it's interesting too right so you know if we fast forward a little bit

Marvin: you got absolutely sucked into the uh to the belly of the beast and you've been

Marvin: a guide you've been an outfitter you're an author fly tire and fly material designer,

Marvin: can you tell us a little bit about kind of how you started sliding down that slippery slope.

Greg: Yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's a long ride. You know, I look at it from how,

Greg: how I see things get done today to how we used to do them back then.

Greg: I mean, you know, it's, it started for me, it just being a young kid tying slides

Greg: and I, for my local fly shops and,

Greg: you know, that goes to getting notice from authors that are at that time,

Greg: you know, putting their books and their magazines and

Greg: stuff inside the stores so i got noticed by like

Greg: matt sapinski john naggy some

Greg: of those people and then i started getting put in like flatfishman magazine

Greg: and their articles their books and uh it was it was just really as a young kid

Greg: it's just really cool to you know to see your stuff you know get noticed like that,

Greg: And then from there, you know, I started guiding.

Greg: I had an opportunity. I don't give this gentleman that much credit and I don't

Greg: know why, but John Matthews, you know, kind of showed me the finer points of guiding.

Greg: You know, he at least gave me a template that I can, you know, that I used and used.

Greg: You know put my own spin on it how i wanted to provide a level of service at the time but i uh,

Greg: you know i was grateful for for that kind of introduction in the guide world,

Greg: you know and then from there but you get you get endorsed by major companies

Greg: like you know for example i got i got endorsed by orvis i won the fly tower of the year um,

Greg: i was given an opportunity to develop my own signature flies materials through orvis and hairline,

Greg: And that helped me use my reputation to pretty much put my name in every fly shop in the country.

Greg: And doing that with my material branding and my branding in general,

Greg: I was able to form Steelhead Alley Outfitters.

Greg: You know then you know from there you know i i started guiding out uh we used

Greg: to we took over guiding for uh many of the local uh fly shops and provided their

Greg: steelhead guiding for them and,

Greg: eventually we uh we just brought all

Greg: of our services in house we just preferred to keep a

Greg: higher level of service you know then

Greg: you know you do the normal stuff you continued lecturing you know meeting people

Greg: writing consulting i you know developed more stuff with inside the industry

Greg: for for several other companies um you know like i did stuff with up and and uh and flyman so.

Greg: You know i started to focus on the success of my team and my company and i kept

Greg: it that way you know decided to uh you know try to lead from the front set a

Greg: good example and And, you know,

Greg: I just never compromised with any of my competition,

Greg: you know, and then I ended everything with, you know, I wrote my own book,

Greg: which it's pretty rare these days, you know, to, uh,

Greg: To have a book like mine, when best new book at ICAST and, you know,

Greg: mistakes and all, you know, so I was pretty, pretty happy with that.

Greg: And, you know, I stayed true to myself and I put in a ton of hard work and long

Greg: hours with really very little sleep.

Greg: So, and that kind of, you know, puts you into where you're at now and how hard

Greg: you want to push, push moving forward. word.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting too, right? Cause that culture is certainly durable because,

Marvin: you know, I know you sold SEO, but you know, Patrick and those guys are still

Marvin: running the same program the same way and being very, very successful.

Greg: Yeah. You know, I mean, you know, you know, all those guys, you know,

Greg: all the, everybody plays, plays an important role in anything that you do.

Greg: And, you know, Patrick, you know, has been with SEO since the beginning.

Greg: So So I really don't expect anything less from him.

Greg: And not only that, they put their own new age kind of spin on it.

Greg: And I think that that's been very welcome, too.

Greg: So, you know, you know how it is. You know, sometimes out with the old, in with the new, right?

Marvin: Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting, too, right? Because you have a reputation

Marvin: for being mildly opinionated, right?

Greg: I'm totally opinionated.

Marvin: And so I thought it would be interesting, you know, when I get someone who's

Marvin: been around the industry so long to kind of get their thoughts on,

Marvin: you know, direction of the industry, industry pet peeves and stuff like that.

Marvin: Is there anything you'd like to share with our listeners?

Greg: Oh, so we're okay. So if we're going to do pet peeves, I'm going to scroll through

Greg: a bunch of lists right here. You ready?

Marvin: I'm ready.

Greg: We'll start at the top. So anybody born after Generation X, how's that?

Greg: That so anybody in this industry after gen x

Greg: i really don't don't like me so just so

Greg: you know um any any type

Greg: uh any type of fishing shirt with a broidery below

Greg: the shoulder and especially like conch chickens

Greg: or shrimp i mean you just look like an asshole i don't

Greg: like that kind of shirt you know any uh any

Greg: toy out of tacoma i mean tell me you're a fishing guy

Greg: without telling me you're fishing at right you know so youtube

Greg: uh you know fly shop professors think they need to teach me something every

Greg: day i can't wait to see a video on dude white you know like do we really need

Greg: it but i'm sure somebody will show us how to use them you know i'm not a fan

Greg: of social media handles you know i call them warning labels i don't i don't

Greg: like the public a figure,

Greg: board member, pro staffer, life coach.

Greg: I encourage people to try to remember it's not a job interview.

Greg: It's not a dating site. It's not an AA meeting.

Greg: Just use your real name. It's okay just to be yourself. Treat it like an introduction.

Greg: I'd rather know who I'm talking to than some weird name or phrase or somebody

Greg: trying to give me advice in the first second that I notice you.

Greg: So any type of flytire that uses epoxy on dry flies, that is not art.

Greg: That isn't a merger. I'm just letting you know.

Greg: Any type of fly fishing content that comes out of a fly fishing company, it is horrible.

Greg: If you do any type of watching social media, I usually, when I'm in the restroom, it is not bad.

Greg: So anyone old enough to need readers and using Barbie dolls in their flytire

Greg: videos, there's a lot of red flags there.

Greg: That dude's definitely on ebb speed's list so anyways i could get as crazy with

Greg: this as you want man i mean i have lots of pet peeves just like anybody else

Greg: you know i don't like people driving the left lane i don't like people popping

Greg: movie theater we can go on and on man you know how this works well.

Marvin: I don't want to get you uh too spun up because we got a fair amount of wood

Marvin: to chop you you know um the uh but i but it's interesting too right so you know

Marvin: of all the things that you've contributed to the industry and we'll carve out the pet peeves.

Marvin: It's kind of like a Letterman's top 15 list.

Marvin: Yeah. Yeah. You know, what are you most proud of and why?

Greg: I mean, the most proud thing is just, you know,

Greg: being able to provide the materials I've been able to do

Greg: over the years and just seeing so many people that

Greg: are using it for how long they've been using it you know

Greg: i'm i'm really proud of that i mean i number one thing

Greg: is being what everybody else comes up with

Greg: from that so if i had to had to

Greg: pick one thing that i would say what is the most proud that would be

Greg: it you know but but i

Greg: am proud of a couple other things as well you know i'm proud

Greg: of the small number of lifelong friends i've made you know

Greg: friends i've gained as being a part of this industry and um

Greg: i'm really happy i kind of stayed true to my character like you know who i was

Greg: as a person a guide as a tire as a friend as as a part of my community um i

Greg: listen you know i try to help where i can i make myself available to anyone

Greg: who seriously wants my help,

Greg: but at the same token you're gonna you know if you ask me for advice you better

Greg: like you know understand the kind of answer you're going to get.

Greg: So, you know, it's just the way it rolls. So I'm proud of all of those things

Greg: that I didn't have to fake it. You know, it kind of just did me.

Marvin: Yeah. It's funny you say that because when people ask for my opinion at this

Marvin: point now, I almost feel compelled to say, do you really want,

Marvin: you know, some constructive feedback or you want me to just affirm you?

Greg: Yeah. You know, it's almost fair that you have to do that.

Greg: It just saves you a lot of time and not giving somebody good advice if they're not going to take it.

Marvin: Yeah. And then they walk away butthurt and you're a bad guy.

Marvin: So, but yeah, it's interesting too, right?

Marvin: So, you know, I've listened to, you know, preparing for this.

Marvin: I always listen to folks' previous interviews.

Marvin: And, you know, I know there was a point at which you realized you were spending

Marvin: too much time in the industry and you needed to shift your priorities.

Marvin: I was wondering if you could tell us a little about, you know,

Marvin: what happened for you to kind of come to that decision?

Greg: I mean the number one thing that that happens is

Greg: you you grow up and you know i

Greg: had a family you know and you know

Greg: none of you know i i look at you know everybody

Greg: thinks like everybody's friends in the fly fishing industry

Greg: right like i don't think they they

Greg: understand that like most people don't

Greg: even know most people's background i mean

Greg: you learn some but you don't know you don't truly know

Greg: what people are you only know who they are through their fishing so for

Greg: me having a family and having kids you know

Greg: that kind of screws that light bulb in and like that's the time where it's like

Greg: i have to shift my priorities and and the main reason for that is like i was

Greg: i was kind of raised in a broken family you know um my mom had moved on while

Greg: we We were young, you know, it, it, it was, uh,

Greg: it was a very hard time for, for my brother and I, you know,

Greg: but then you take little pieces of that and you kind of carry it with you everywhere you go.

Greg: You know, I just, I don't want to have, I don't want my kids or my wife or anybody

Greg: to deal with that. You know, I don't want to miss my kids sports.

Greg: You know, I kind of like being a homebody.

Greg: Um, you know, don't, don't take me wrong. I had a good childhood,

Greg: you know, like my family was excellent. They made the best out of everything,

Greg: you know, and my extended family is like a welcome, you know what I mean?

Greg: So, but like I said, you carry little bits and pieces of everything with you

Greg: and like you start using those to compare, you know.

Greg: When you're raising your own kids, you can only go by what you know or what has happened to you.

Greg: You have your own story to live, your own mistakes to make, and your own victories to celebrate.

Greg: So you just got to jump in two feet.

Marvin: Yeah, it's interesting, right? Because I think having those situations in your

Marvin: childhood, if you can use them as motivation and drive, right? Right.

Marvin: Like, you know, I had some things kind of in my childhood and it's kind of like,

Marvin: you know, to your point, like I wouldn't

Marvin: want my boys to go through any of that, but it's made me who I am.

Marvin: And I don't know how I would be sitting here talking to you today in the way

Marvin: that I am if I hadn't gone through that stuff.

Greg: No, it's 100 percent right. Right. And, you know, another key point to look

Greg: at this with your kids is like to be really a good fishing guide or to be invested in this industry.

Greg: Like you got to be a hundred percent in, you know, and I, I wasn't,

Greg: you know, kind of willing to not be able to show my kids, you know,

Greg: archery, backpacking, hunting, camping.

Greg: You know the other things that you know i kind of had to give up to stay fishy

Greg: right you know what i mean you know so those were also like contributing factors on on uh,

Greg: Wanting to dial it back, start spending time.

Greg: And you know what? I'm enjoying myself more. My kids are enjoying themselves

Greg: more. I don't miss anything.

Greg: You know what I mean? So I'm not disappointed by that.

Marvin: Yeah, it's an interesting thing. I mean, gosh, we could have a complete podcast

Marvin: series on parenting and raising kids.

Marvin: You know, Greg, I was kind of wondering if, you know, kind of in this whole

Marvin: shift, you know, did you ever kind of hit a wall or kind of feel like a line

Marvin: was crossed that kind of kept pushing you in a certain direction.

Greg: Absolutely i mean

Greg: you know i hate to say it i you know

Greg: there was a time where i kind of let other people you know

Greg: kind of influence influence kind of what i was going to do

Greg: or what i was going to say i just don't allow that

Greg: anymore but you know when when people

Greg: and companies and stuff don't you know didn't appreciate

Greg: your investment any longer you know i just i

Greg: didn't i didn't want to feel that way you

Greg: know what i mean i was tired of being being angry at

Greg: that and you know the years of loyalty and service i felt like they weren't

Greg: appreciated and uh then you started seeing the devaluing of industry talent

Greg: in favor of the theatrics and the fakeness you see on the media like it just

Greg: just wasn't a path i was willing to take.

Greg: You're just continually hassled by companies and customers that feed them content daily.

Greg: I even was told that I'm in risk of losing my value and my reputation over,

Greg: So all the years of work, all the hard work, effort, and everything else,

Greg: I'm going to lose that if I don't stay relevant on social media.

Greg: Could you guess what my answer to that was?

Marvin: Yeah, it probably starts with an F, right?

Greg: Yeah, it was, fuck you.

Marvin: Straight up. Yeah. That was it.

Marvin: Yeah, but, you know, that's an interesting thing, Greg, because,

Marvin: I mean, I see this, you know, in the industry where,

Marvin: you know, a lot of people are – well, first of all, I would say a lot of these

Marvin: guys could rule the world if they would return phone calls and emails.

Marvin: Like, that would be kind of point number one, right, which takes us back to being a Gen Xer, right?

Marvin: But I would say, you know, one of the things that is interesting to me is I

Marvin: think, you know, I think a lot of people start in the industry and they're really

Marvin: young, right? Right. And so they're hustling. Right.

Marvin: Like probably like you and I did when we were like hustling as kids,

Marvin: cutting grass and paper routes and all that sort of stuff.

Marvin: And, you know, they don't want to say no to anything.

Marvin: But the problem is you fast forward 20 years and you put the time in and they

Marvin: still interact with people like they're 18 years old.

Greg: Yes, very much so.

Marvin: Right. And so it's like, you know, they feel like they have to do everything

Marvin: and they never, to your point, stop.

Marvin: And say, why am I doing this this way? If I, you know, I am more valuable,

Marvin: like, you know, why am I valuable? It's because I've invested in myself, right?

Marvin: You know, it's not because I'm posting stuff prolifically on social media.

Marvin: Yeah, dude, I think it's a fascinating thing. I mean, and so,

Marvin: you know, those are, you know, it's always interesting, right?

Marvin: You know, I always say the fishing is just the bicycle for the interview and

Marvin: the conversation, but there's a lot of like life stuff there. Right.

Marvin: And so, you know, kind of curious, you know, how you kind of put that all together and made it work for you.

Greg: I mean, I mean, you, you identify number one that, you know,

Greg: you don't like this stuff, right.

Greg: This, this extra curricular stuff that kind of got added to the fishing world.

Greg: So, you know, for me, I just quit listening to people, you know,

Greg: I don't walk around lacking self-confidence.

Greg: I work, which many know, maybe some don't, but I was a police officer for over 20 years as well.

Greg: So you kind of get to the point where you've been through enough that you can

Greg: start making choices and live with consequences.

Greg: You know, it's...

Greg: You know, it came down. I just wanted to do me, even if it meant doing it alone.

Greg: Like I just didn't have the stomach to, to be a part of the circus.

Greg: And, um, that's how I made it work for me. And then I started doing all the other things.

Greg: And then when I was fishing, you know, I was starting to enjoy fishing again.

Greg: You know, like when I tie flies now I tie them cause I, I want to tie and I

Greg: enjoy it and I'm going to use them for something.

Greg: You know what I mean? I mean, I'm not just tying to have a whole bunch of them laying around anymore.

Greg: So I get way more, way more enjoyment out of it, you know? And then,

Greg: uh, I do, you know, I do other fishing things too.

Greg: You know, I fished a year now a little bit, which I gave up for all those years

Greg: of fly fishing, you know?

Greg: And I look at it this way is I'd rather be happy in a well-rounded angler than

Greg: a miserable fly, miserable flying.

Greg: You know, there's a lot of miserable fly anglers out there.

Greg: Like i don't like you know i'm just

Greg: if you could see me right now i'm sticking my foot out like get

Greg: away from me you know what i mean like i don't uh i don't want to be around

Greg: that you know what i mean so you know and then not only that you know like you

Greg: know everybody i see it's like everybody's looking for some type of personal

Greg: challenge you know i hunt more than i fish

Greg: and i do this in places my phone don't

Greg: work um go go do

Greg: something where you got to think for yourself for the

Greg: actions of your day or the six what you gauge the success of your day is in

Greg: your hands you know that's the one thing i love about hunting versus fishing

Greg: right now is fishing i felt like i was rewarded every day i could get a fix

Greg: every day even a bad day of fishing i was successful.

Greg: You know, hunting, you could go weeks, months,

Greg: you can, you make decisions because it's based on life and death and,

Greg: you know, it's a food source and there's, there's other things at stake. You know what I mean?

Greg: You know, it's more adult for me is the way I look at it.

Greg: It's more satisfying for me mentally to, to, to do those kinds of things.

Greg: You know helps me block out all the noise you know so that's how you make it work for you.

Marvin: Yeah it's interesting right because i guess one of the ways i say something

Marvin: similar is you know if you're truly lucky you get to pick the hill you're going to die on,

Marvin: 100 yeah and i think the interesting thing too is um and you probably saw this

Marvin: is when you started being you and not being who people wanted you to be,

Marvin: that you probably became even more successful.

Greg: You know, if I'm being fair on that question, like more successful in the sense

Greg: of I was a much happier person.

Greg: I had less, like I said, noise when I started doing everything,

Greg: how I wanted to do it and not taking in consideration anybody else.

Greg: You know what i mean or you know

Greg: made it about team and family and my atmosphere

Greg: above all else right you know that was

Greg: a lot easier than trying to deal with what everybody else wants you to do so

Greg: if that's what you mean by being more successful i i agree because you know

Greg: it made me more focused made you happy and like when you're happy you're better

Greg: you do better on all fronts when you're happy.

Marvin: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Right. So I've got my oldest son is a rising senior

Marvin: in college and talking about like, you know, find that thing that fulfills you

Marvin: and it will make your days a whole lot easier, you know?

Greg: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. That's, uh,

Greg: I wish I would have found that younger, you know, like for me,

Greg: I wish I, it's so funny as you look at this whole thing, like when you're,

Greg: when you're young and you're getting into this, you're like super excited.

Greg: Your energy level and your stoke level are like super, super high, right?

Greg: And even as you get older, you

Greg: don't lose that. You don't lose that enthusiasm, but you do lose like that.

Greg: Iron wall you put up you know what i mean like you just don't have the youth

Greg: as you get older to like continually want to fight the same kind of battle over

Greg: and over and over and over again,

Greg: so like if i could go back like go back to the day and at one point where it's

Greg: like you know took the red pill versus the blue pill right if i could go back

Greg: to that point you know that there is a part of me that would take the other

Greg: pill and just keep fishing fishing,

Greg: just keep it fun you know not make it

Greg: part of my job or my livelihood

Greg: or you know keep it exactly

Greg: you know what what it was when we

Greg: all start and decide that we want it to be more as it's a hobby be you know

Greg: it's something we love to do to to uh take the way all the pain from all the

Greg: hours of work so anyways you know and.

Marvin: So you know you of the many hats that you wear one of the hats is you're the

Marvin: general manager at schultz outfitters and um you know just like some folks uh

Marvin: you know may not have known that you were a cop in your prior life they may

Marvin: not know how you and you know mike uh got hooked up and how you ended up at so well.

Greg: Many many moons ago i used to go up and do fly time classes at uh colton bay

Greg: which was uh just outside of ann arbor and mike was the was the store manager

Greg: there so you know we kind of hit it off the first couple times we ever met and And over time,

Greg: I asked Mike if he was willing to come down and guide for me at Steelhead Alley

Greg: Outfitters, you know, for the Springs.

Greg: And he did. You know, he came down for years to help us run our guiding and stuff over there.

Greg: And, you know, eventually he was like, hey, man, you know, like someday I'm

Greg: going to open a store. And he's like, if I ever do that, would you help come run a store with me?

Greg: And I made that promise.

Greg: And, you know, like our friendship has grown to be, you know, almost like family.

Greg: So here we are, you know, I'm at the shop.

Marvin: Yeah. And so how many years ago was it when you first met Mike?

Greg: Well that's like putting a guy on the spot you know it's like my wife asking

Greg: me what the date of our anniversary is gonna check my calendar for that um,

Greg: Early 2000s, somewhere around there. Yeah, yeah.

Marvin: Yeah.

Greg: Yeah, a long time. You know, it's been 20 plus more years, maybe a little longer.

Marvin: Yeah. In particular, as you get older, that's super cool.

Marvin: And, you know, one of the things that really struck me, I had a chance to,

Marvin: you know, meet you in person at Bob in the Hood earlier this year.

Marvin: And, you know, you kind of, you know, to your point, you see the Internet stuff,

Marvin: but then you have to be in the store to see the real stuff.

Marvin: And and i you know i was in absolutely blown away i mean i've been in tons of

Marvin: fly shops i fished with lots of people but i was really blown away at the culture

Marvin: uh inside schultz outfitters and i was kind of wondering you know if you could talk a little bit about,

Marvin: you know what you and mike and the rest of the team have done there that makes

Marvin: you different from other shops and outfitters i.

Greg: Think you said it right there it's team is

Greg: everything thing um our whole team

Greg: can walk the walk you know there we have

Greg: everything that we need to to have a successful business like

Greg: some of our guys are college educated in

Greg: business you know we have good fishing guides we

Greg: have great instructors with fly tires we have innovators developers entertainers

Greg: travelers and most importantly we're all anglers like continually we on the

Greg: water you know or have some kind of hurt to play you know related to fishing so you know.

Greg: That uh that alone eliminates 90

Greg: of the fly shops that are out there they don't have

Greg: that okay and then on top of

Greg: that we just focus on us we focus on our

Greg: local fisheries but we excel sell everywhere you know

Greg: we are we're about our warm water fishing opportunities

Greg: how many fly shops do you go to that has a focus on smallmouth

Greg: card moss and pipe you know

Greg: it's not most of the places when you associate a fly

Greg: shop you think a trout we can do that we do do that but

Greg: it's not uh it's not our

Greg: main focus so i

Greg: think uh i think that's why a lot of people you know come

Greg: visit us and they trust us is because we're we're

Greg: very honest we're super hard working you know

Greg: the uh customers that we tend to to deal with are fishing people in their own

Greg: right you know like these guys are traveling they're doing things they're going

Greg: all over they're fishing with talent across the country if not across the globe you know so you uh.

Greg: You thrive in that kind of atmosphere.

Greg: And then even the new people that are walking through the door,

Greg: like most of the ones that we see, they have a desire to become those type of pushy people.

Greg: We're lucky from that standpoint that we have that kind of customer wanting to come see us.

Greg: We focus that we're going to continually maintain a high degree of personal

Greg: education and expectations when you come to the store.

Greg: Just think of all the things I just said. I'm just highlighting our team and

Greg: what we can do on our storefront.

Greg: We don't even have an online store yet. And we're pretty much keeping up with everybody else.

Greg: Just think when we do open the online store. And you know what?

Greg: Someday, shortly down the road, that's going to happen.

Greg: So we don't need that bullet yet. We're saving it for when we're ready and choosing

Greg: to be more of the place that you should want to talk to us.

Greg: You should want to ask us questions. You should let us help you pick out new

Greg: gear. You know, that's what all the years of hard work have given our local community.

Greg: And that's the one thing I love about being a part of this whole industry is this aspect right here.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting because I would say Schultz Outfitters is probably one

Marvin: of the few places that I would buy natural materials from sight unseen and trust

Marvin: that I was going to get what I wanted when I opened the envelope.

Greg: Oh, yeah, because we're going to handpick it for you.

Marvin: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, in the team, things impressive.

Marvin: I can remember, gosh, I mean, it's been in the early years of the podcast, I interviewed Mike.

Marvin: And I remember one of the things that was really memorable from that interview,

Marvin: I mean, because it's probably been five years ago, four years ago,

Marvin: was, you know, his desire for

Marvin: the store to be successful was because he wanted to take care of his guys.

Marvin: Right. And he wanted to be able to have a house and raise their families and

Marvin: be in the community. And I thought that was like, you know, unusual.

Marvin: And I mean, to our point, kind of some of the things we've talked about the

Marvin: industry being something that's kind of rarer and rarer today, right?

Greg: Well, when you have that kind of leadership, why would you not want to want

Greg: to work with somebody like that?

Greg: Somebody that's going to have, you know, a general interest in his own people.

Greg: Like there's a, there's a lot of, a lot of, a lot of opportunities to work for

Greg: people that aren't like that. And I can attest to it because I've worked with

Greg: a lot of those people before. You know what I mean?

Marvin: Yeah, I'll compare tattoos with you the next time we get together.

Greg: There you go.

Marvin: So, you know, kind of pulling back to the tying, you kind of mentioned some

Marvin: of the companies at the beginning of the interview.

Marvin: But, you know, you've had the opportunity to work with kind of,

Marvin: you know, the top tier tying material companies in the industry for the last

Marvin: 20 years, right? And I was kind of curious if you could kind of tell us like

Marvin: how that started and what it was like, you know, working with each of those companies.

Greg: Oh, I mean, just so you know, like it was a blessing to, to be able to,

Greg: to be granted a lot of these opportunities.

Greg: And, you know, that first opportunity was, like I said, I was,

Greg: well, endorsed through Orbis and, you know, I had an idea for materials and,

Greg: uh, Sean Brillant was working in their, uh, development department at the time.

Greg: And he, uh, he made an introduction with me, for me with, uh,

Greg: with Marcos, the hairline.

Greg: And that's kind of what started everything for me having the opportunities.

Greg: And you saw laser dub and all the numerous other opportunities for material come out after that.

Greg: And like, like I said, I, you know, not to be, you know, misleading or anything.

Greg: It was, it was a little bit of luck, I guess, you know what I mean?

Greg: The hard work, all that stuff was there. But, you know, I was lucky that I had

Greg: somebody willing to make an introduction for me.

Greg: And that's how I was able to, you know, kind of build my brand moving forward.

Marvin: Yeah. It's kind of like getting rebounds in basketball, right?

Marvin: You got to stay around the rim.

Greg: 100%. Yeah. That's a good one. I like that. I'm going to use that.

Marvin: Yeah. So you started out with Hairline.

Marvin: Who are some of the other folks you've worked with in the industry?

Marvin: And we'll wait and we'll talk about Montana Fly Company in a minute.

Greg: No, that's great. I tell EP, Flyman Fishing Company.

Greg: But my primary, obviously, was working with Hairline.

Greg: I think we spent almost two decades putting together some amazing materials.

Greg: So it's, and it's not hard to do so when you work with such an amazing group of people.

Greg: Like, so it's, uh, like I said, it was a privilege to, to be a part of that.

Marvin: Yeah. And the great thing is they're almost completely set up in Michigan now.

Marvin: So you'll be able to go have dinner with Marcos anytime you want to, right?

Greg: Yeah. They, they, they just moved to Michigan. They're, they're,

Greg: I've known how fast they move.

Greg: They are probably up and operational at this point. Yeah.

Marvin: And so, you know, kind of fast forward a little bit, you know,

Marvin: you currently are working for Montana Fly Company and they were all over the

Marvin: place at Bob and the Hood.

Marvin: And I was really impressed that the new owner has aggressively kind of moved

Marvin: into, you know, predator flies and tying materials.

Marvin: And I was kind of curious, because I didn't have a chance to talk to him,

Marvin: you know, how did that come about? And, you know, how did you get involved in the racket?

Greg: It so i got uh i got approached by phil cook who's a regional fishing rep and a good friend of mine,

Greg: and uh he had uh reached out on montana fly company's behalf of like hey you

Greg: know there's some opportunities out here and and uh new owner and just really fishy and highly,

Greg: aggressive group of guys that want to go after it

Greg: again you know so we were

Greg: able to work out a contract and and i've

Greg: got you know you you met justin just like i did a bob and and you know it's

Greg: he's more my age you know or our age bracket he's a strange shooter he's that

Greg: likes to get his hands dirty you know i can't i i i can't ask for really anything

Greg: more right like working those are

Greg: the kind of guys i like to work with is uh ones that

Greg: are really getting the group with you you know so like

Greg: i said again it's uh you know somebody bringing

Greg: an opportunity and it's able to uh that you know to take your talents and push

Greg: them to something else you know so i think you're gonna i think you guys are

Greg: gonna be happy there and you see we've already launched one material but we'll

Greg: we'll have a whole bunch more coming in the future here yeah.

Marvin: You know it's interesting Right. Because, I mean, I'm always kind of watching

Marvin: stuff and I would say, you know, not just the move like, you know,

Marvin: I can remember seeing the Golden Fly Shop display and they used to have an old

Marvin: school, you know, like lunch and meat freezer from a grocery store that was full of streamers.

Marvin: But the thing that kind of blew me away at Bobbin was, you know,

Marvin: everyone that's got patterns with them, you know, they had a small,

Marvin: you know, it was almost like a like a large flag that was on their table that

Marvin: said, I'm with Montana Fly Company. Right.

Marvin: And then just the innovation in the new materials. But you could tell that there

Marvin: was something different about what was going on than you would see,

Marvin: you know, if you went to a trade show and walked around and looked at,

Marvin: you know, six different material companies.

Greg: Oh, I mean, well, not only that, I mean, look at, you know, like we said,

Greg: the big streamer flies, right?

Greg: So, I mean, Russ Madden's now with Montana Fly Company.

Greg: I think Matt Grodziewski's got his flies there.

Greg: So, you know, you add that to Kelly Gallop and just the Midwest talent that's a part of that stable.

Greg: Able, like, you know, I, I feel like I'm getting to work with people I know

Greg: already, you know, like your neighbors, right. And getting to work with your neighbors.

Greg: It's, it's kind of, it's kind of really nice.

Greg: You know, there was, there was a long time where, you know, I used to get really

Greg: disappointed because like all my, I felt like all my buddies were all working

Greg: with different, different companies. Right.

Greg: And like, there was like, I was like, seemed like there was there's always this unwritten role.

Greg: Like you can't work together. You can't, or you can't, can't highlight somebody

Greg: else's hard work or the materials or their stuff because you work for somebody

Greg: else and they offer something similar.

Greg: Like, you know, I feel like everybody being under this label,

Greg: I don't, I don't feel like we go through that, that, that often anymore.

Greg: So I kind of appreciate those kinds of things too.

Greg: You know, especially now that like we're not childish now, right.

Greg: You know, It's a way I felt back then. It's like, really?

Greg: This is what we need? This is how we act?

Marvin: Yeah, it's the Ghostbuster problem, right? You can't cross the streams?

Greg: Yes, exactly.

Marvin: Yeah.

Greg: But you know what? Now you're starting to see a lot more of that now.

Greg: And, you know, and I'm hoping that continues.

Greg: I think that that will solve a lot of problems.

Greg: You know what I mean? So, you know, because, I mean, let's face it.

Greg: I mean, like most of the innovations and stuff coming out today,

Greg: they're all merit. They're all pretty good.

Greg: There's a lot of exciting stuff coming out across the board.

Greg: I mean, just technology alone and glass fishing has already pushed itself into

Greg: a whole nother category.

Greg: I mean, even so much, I'm digressing. I'm fishing more glass and old reels that

Greg: I find in garage sales and stuff like that versus this high-tech stuff, right?

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting too, right? So for folks that don't know,

Marvin: can you, Greg, tell us the products that you currently have released with Montana Fly Company?

Greg: So we just released the, uh, math satin chenilles.

Greg: We did both like a cactus and a, uh, like a polar type chenille.

Greg: And, uh, it's, it's the first it's math. Okay. So there's like no reflection to it whatsoever.

Greg: Um, it focuses more on color. So it's, it's kind of the first of its type.

Greg: Like, you know, most chenilles you see are flashy or opaque or,

Greg: you know, got some kind of UV and stuff to it.

Greg: These are truly bland, matte, you know.

Greg: So you think low water brown trout flies, you know, big pike and musky fly, all that kind of stuff.

Greg: Like you can really dig into it with this kind of chenille.

Greg: I'm excited about it. So it's, it's gaining a lot of ground and it's also hit

Greg: the, uh, the salt water, salt water market very well.

Marvin: Very, very neat. And can you share with us anything that's kind of in the production

Marvin: pipeline that people can be on the lookout from you?

Greg: Well, I mean, we're going to have a few new dubbings and there's going to be

Greg: some other shields and brushes and stuff like that down the road.

Greg: No, I, uh, I, I think, uh, I think there's going to be a lot coming in the future

Greg: based on everything we've already got in the pipeline.

Greg: So I think it's going to be worth the wait. You know, we're just getting started.

Greg: I don't want to pump something that, you know, could come out later than something

Greg: else, you know what I mean? mean.

Greg: So, you know, but there'll, there'll be a lot and I'm excited about it and you should be too.

Greg: So if you like the tie, I know it's all stuff. I like the tie.

Greg: This is stuff I want to use.

Marvin: Yeah. Well, there you go. Well, you know, shifting gears a little bit,

Marvin: you know, we were talking about, you know, how, you know, you started your family

Marvin: and you kind of thought to kind of reprioritize things.

Marvin: And, you know, we were talking before we started interviewing,

Marvin: you've also in the last, I don't know, two years had a couple,

Marvin: uh, I guess what generation X people would call check check engine light moments.

Marvin: And I was wondering if you could share those with us and kind of tell us how

Marvin: that kind of reinforced your path.

Greg: Well, I mean, a couple of years ago, I had, you know, when that second strain

Greg: of COVID came through, I got that and it ended up, I ended up getting pneumonia

Greg: and blood clots at the same time.

Greg: So it was a pretty scary, scary time there for me.

Greg: For me and my family, you know, I spent like 11 days in ICU and,

Greg: uh, wasn't looking good.

Greg: And then, you know, I, I pulled through and then I was on, uh,

Greg: home care for another month and, you know, but we made it right.

Greg: We made it through that one.

Greg: And then, uh, you know, it forced me to get in a little better shape.

Greg: And I, uh, I went Elkhart in Montana,

Greg: montana i went deer hunting and uh

Greg: january 1st the following year and i had a pretty significant heart attack where

Greg: i had to have uh a stent placed immediately and then i had to go back and get

Greg: two more placed so it's really kind of hard to uh ignore all the things that are trying to kill you,

Greg: so yeah you uh you definitely reevaluate like i guess time and mortality are

Greg: definitely a big a big part of my thought process anymore.

Marvin: Yeah, it's interesting, right? Because I'm a little bit older than you,

Marvin: but it's kind of, you get to a point where it's like you try to kind of ignore

Marvin: it for a while, but at some point you can't deceive yourself that you've got

Marvin: more tomorrows than yesterdays, right?

Greg: I i feel i think that way every day like there's no

Greg: more like waking up and kind of

Greg: taking the day for granted i mean you know

Greg: i hate that i have to feel that way but there's some

Greg: there's some solace in it too you know

Greg: what i mean like you uh you make

Greg: sure you you tell your kids what you can tell them at night

Greg: you know you tell your wife that that you love her and stuff like that every

Greg: night before you go to bed you know so you don't uh you don't just assume you're

Greg: uh you're granted uh tomorrow but uh i mean i hope i have a whole bunch of tomorrow's

Greg: lines i mean as many as possible yeah.

Marvin: I would also say too though that right if you use it the right way right um

Marvin: you know it gives you a lot more focus to get done what you want to get done yeah.

Greg: There's just such an urgency to get done what what i want

Greg: to get done you know and you know it's like you say about like

Greg: prioritizing and reevaluating and

Greg: i mean you know you can't

Greg: take for granted that your mind thinks a different way and like what you had

Greg: you know the five-year plan you had is gone you know what i mean you know the

Greg: previous plan is gone you you kind of what can i do to uh you know,

Greg: for me, what can I immediately do to, to rectify this problem?

Greg: And that's kind of how I've lived since all of this.

Marvin: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and speaking of that, you know, you recently completed the,

Marvin: uh, pack mule 300 charity hike.

Marvin: You want to tell us like what on earth made you decide to do something like that?

Greg: Sure. So yeah, for, for anybody that's not aware of that.

Greg: So you know what i

Greg: did was i i hiked from my house here in

Greg: michigan to my hunting camp in the

Greg: allegheny national forest and the reason for it was to uh to raise money for

Greg: uh the high school lacrosse teams and you know both my sons play lacrosse so

Greg: you know i really wanted to set an an example of hard work and,

Greg: you know, I kind of helped them find that another gear was inside themselves

Greg: and like what they can accomplish.

Greg: So that's why I did, you know, what I did.

Greg: And I will tell you right now that I will probably never attempt that again.

Greg: And it took me to pretty much my breaking point.

Marvin: Yeah. It's, uh, yeah, you were telling me like, like hotter than you thought, less water, right?

Greg: Oh, I had to reevaluate everything, you know, like, you know,

Greg: I mean, I can't even it's, you know, the mental game, the hydration,

Greg: like, you know, help the whole nine yards.

Greg: Like you're seeing you put the miles in, but like you, I had,

Greg: if I didn't have the help I had, I would have never made something like that. You know what I mean?

Greg: And, you know, when you're trying to set an example for a bunch of kids,

Greg: like that's, what's kind of driving you to, uh, to get it done.

Greg: Like, you know, I mean, you know, it's a long ways.

Greg: I wanted my kids to, to not have an excuse, right.

Greg: To, to fail. So if I looked at it as like, if I failed in something like this,

Greg: like, you know, I set an example. examples that, you know, it's okay to quit.

Greg: And I just didn't want to do that. I'm just not that kind of person.

Greg: You know, I was, if it killed me, it was going to kill me. And,

Greg: uh, you know, part of something like that too, is, is, you know,

Greg: I just told you about the heart attacks and the COVID and all that stuff.

Greg: And, you know, I don't like things telling me what to do. Like,

Greg: I'm sure you've heard that before.

Greg: Um, I kind of had to prove to myself again, that I'm like, not just going to

Greg: belly up and die, you know?

Greg: So I had to push myself to a little, another level of, uh, unsureness. Does that make sense?

Marvin: Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, you, you're trying to be better every day than

Marvin: you were yesterday. Right.

Greg: Some, sometimes I'm still, I'm still, I'm still bad just so you know, No, I'm still a villain.

Marvin: You're one of the bad boys of fly fishing. But I mean, you know,

Marvin: pushing yourself and kind of, I don't know. I mean, it's interesting, right?

Marvin: And there's, you know, this whole parenting component, like,

Marvin: you know, you can't tell your children how to live their life and not model

Marvin: that behavior, right? That's a huge thing, I think, right?

Greg: Yeah, it's an important thing.

Marvin: Yeah, I think, you know, also, you know, not expecting other people to fix your problems, right?

Marvin: Like we don't have enough money for our lacrosse team. Well,

Marvin: how are we going to fix that?

Greg: Yeah. And I mean, I mean, this is, you know, I think, you know,

Greg: we've talked about this before, but like my idea of charity is a lot different

Greg: sometimes than other people's idea of charity.

Greg: Like I'm never going to be the guy who goes knocks on people's doors and asks for money.

Greg: I'm never going to be a guy that stands at a gas station, tries to sell somebody a discount card.

Greg: You know i'm not going to be the kind of guy that

Greg: just organizes other people to do hard work for

Greg: them you know to get credit for doing charity i'm

Greg: just it's not my style i want to be responsible for

Greg: putting the work in and uh you

Greg: know most importantly when you're doing charity you're not supposed to get

Greg: a personal benefit from it so there's no

Greg: personal benefit here for me like it's truly

Greg: charity it's uh it's benefiting

Greg: these kids in every way not only in the

Greg: way of monetary you know having extra money that they need to have a successful

Greg: season but it's showing them an example of hard work and determination it's

Greg: showing them some mental toughness where they got to learn to win the battle

Greg: of yourself you know it's it's showing them the importance of friendship and teamwork.

Greg: You know, because I had people helping me along the way, you know,

Greg: you know, and also helps you handle the pressure, you know, the,

Greg: that pure negativity that we always see, you know, shows them that they don't

Greg: have to validate that, that they can defeat it.

Greg: You know, I, you know, I hear it. I, there's always, you know,

Greg: I'm, I'm doing charity, right.

Greg: And there's always that one or two people out there that are like,

Greg: oh yeah, he's, he's not really doing yet.

Greg: Somebody's, somebody's picking them up and moving them here.

Greg: There's somebody who's doing this or, you know, anything to, uh.

Greg: You know make it so you uh you know you come out the bad guy right you know there's always just,

Greg: like it's a great example still to show the

Greg: kids that to for my

Greg: kids to see that like that you can put doesn't matter

Greg: how much hard work you do how much stuff you put in

Greg: how much effort you put in for somebody else like you're never

Greg: gonna make everybody happy so i mean

Greg: all that kind of stuff was there every element of

Greg: what i wanted this to be you know what

Greg: was there and then like i said you know there was some of it

Greg: my benefit was i i realized i

Greg: wasn't going to die tomorrow all this medical stuff i can kind of overcome it

Greg: you know and then you kind of learn who your friends are right you kind of learn

Greg: who the kind of people like i i was really shocked at some of the people that

Greg: came to my aid a lot of them strangers okay so you know the people that i I

Greg: thought would jump in and walk a few miles, like, they didn't show up.

Greg: So, you know, it's, you learn a lot about yourself and the people around you

Greg: by doing something like that.

Marvin: Yeah, but you know, back on the kid thing, like, you know, in this day and age,

Marvin: right, you know, kind of, you know, tying back to the Generation X thing,

Marvin: like, you know, seeing that life's not fair.

Marvin: Um, is a, is a super powerful life, life lesson.

Marvin: So you don't walk around waiting, you know, for some magical something to happen for you.

Marvin: But then I also think the other thing too, and, you know, particularly,

Marvin: um, you know, raising kids, but I think true in life, it's like,

Marvin: you know, well, I can't do that.

Marvin: And I was like, well, how do you know? Cause you haven't tried. Right.

Marvin: Um, and so, you know, it's kind of funny. Cause I mean, I had that sort of mindset,

Marvin: uh, particularly in the large law firm practice, which is we were going to put

Marvin: the flag on the hill or everyone was going to be dead.

Marvin: Right? Like those were the two options, right? We're going to die trying,

Marvin: or we're going to put the flag on the hill.

Marvin: And that, you know, not everything in life has to be that way.

Marvin: But I think learning that lesson about, you know, to your point,

Marvin: like, how do you know what you can do until you try to do it?

Greg: Yeah, I agree. And that's, I mean, that's kind of what that,

Greg: this whole thing was, was, you know, it's almost like life in 10 days.

Greg: You know, if If there was some kind of an emotion, a problem or a success or,

Greg: you know, a bad thought, like every minute of that journey for 10 days.

Marvin: Yeah.

Greg: You know, so.

Marvin: That's your second book title.

Greg: Yeah. See, that's the thing is I don't know if I have it anymore to sit and

Greg: write my own book, you know, to have another to do that again.

Greg: And I just, I just, I don't really, I don't even think it's worth it.

Greg: That's me. I'm just saying, you know, like as much as I thought about doing

Greg: another book, I, uh, I think I'll, you know, I used to die on the hill and plant

Greg: the flag. I think I'll just leave it there.

Marvin: And then also too, you get to a point where you, you know, you don't have as

Marvin: many things to prove anymore. Yeah.

Greg: What's funny is you never start out having anything to prove anyway.

Greg: So you just find something that you got to prove yourself.

Greg: It's usually, usually you're trying to prove something to somebody else.

Greg: You're trying to prove somebody else wrong.

Greg: I hate to say it that way. Like if you sit down and you actually think about

Greg: it, like I don't know how many times like in law enforcement,

Greg: I did better just to prove somebody else wrong.

Greg: I didn't really care if I did it for myself or not. You know what I mean?

Greg: You know, There's a lot of times we allow things to influence us,

Greg: not from a phone, but that's today's problem.

Greg: But you get where I'm going with this.

Greg: So I don't know. To each their own. Everybody's different.

Greg: I try not to pass judgment until I, unless you do stupid shit online, then sorry.

Marvin: Sorry like all all.

Greg: Hands all you know i'm done you've lost it you enjoy being you but i'm out you

Greg: know what i mean like i just i don't care.

Marvin: Yeah so to pull us back to a slightly more positive frame of reference you want

Marvin: to give a shout out to some of

Marvin: the people that uh they showed up for you while you were on the hike yeah.

Greg: Absolutely i mean my you know jeff's Jeff Luskay, I don't know if you don't

Greg: know Jeff. Jeff is a Green Lakes dude.

Greg: He's probably been a fishing guide longer than most of us dream of being a fishing guide.

Greg: He's probably the most well-respected bait casting and instructor out of the Cleveland area.

Greg: He's just one of the darndest, nicest guys you'll ever meet in your life.

Greg: You know, there was a time where, you know, me and Jeff weren't the best of

Greg: friends, but, you know, we became, you know, sort of the best of friends.

Greg: Over the last few years and you know he was a big part

Greg: of this you know like he was the guy that took weight

Greg: out of my pack so that way i could carry extra water when it was you know 100

Greg: degrees outside you know he's the guy that opened this house and gave me a place

Greg: to sleep you know what i mean so either he's the guy that would call and check

Greg: in or just drive by to see that i was good to go.

Greg: And then, you know, anybody think that he wasn't busy, he was filming a fishing

Greg: show and everything else.

Greg: And he just found time to, to be a part of that, you know, a part of making

Greg: sure that I could complete my journey.

Greg: You know, you know, Alex Schoen came all the way from Ann Arbor just to hike a few miles with me.

Greg: You know, one of the days Rob Pitts, you know, he He grabbed me in Cleveland

Greg: and made sure I had a place to sleep for, you know, that push through eastern

Greg: Cleveland into toward the Pennsylvania border.

Greg: You know, they fed me dinner, everything. I mean, they just they gave me a chance

Greg: to rest, recoup and get my sanity.

Greg: Owen Murphy grabbing breakfast for me one morning.

Greg: You know, Jimmy Lamprost and Will Turrent bringing me Gatorades along the journey

Greg: and just giving me somebody to talk to. I mean, that's a, that's a big part of this.

Greg: I don't think people really understand is 10 days, 300 miles, 40 pounds on your back.

Greg: It's lonely, very lonely.

Greg: Like I, uh, I spent as much time fighting the heat and everything else as I did fighting myself.

Greg: Like, I don't know. I mean, you know, you know, I, I, I listened,

Greg: somebody said like, you got to fight your inner bits. Have you ever heard that before?

Marvin: I have not.

Greg: Like why uh i my

Greg: inner bitch must have been like 400 pounds because he

Greg: was literally just beating the shit out of

Greg: me because anything like any bad negative

Greg: thing i could think of along the way she was just

Greg: spewing it and he had to learn how to fight it you know either gave in or you

Greg: saw it i just i saw it you know but you know for me wasn't an easy goal was

Greg: not an easy task It is definitely not something I would probably ever,

Greg: ever try to duplicate.

Greg: Like, I think I showed myself I'm very much capable of doing the things I want to do still.

Greg: I'm still sort of fat. I'd like to lose a few more pounds.

Greg: You know what I mean? But, you know, we can't help how God has made us.

Greg: And I do like...

Greg: Some of the bad foods you're not allowed to have. So, well, I'm not allowed

Greg: to have, but I eat them anyways.

Greg: So you know what I'm talking about. So, yeah, again, that goes back to,

Greg: you know, the inner kid in me when the doctor says I should not eat bacon or

Greg: I should not have this because of my heart stuff.

Greg: My inner kid's like, screw you. I'm going to have bacon.

Greg: You know what I mean? So I'm finding myself these days as much as the next guy.

Marvin: Yeah. But also too, you know, as we were kind of racking up kind of life lessons,

Marvin: you know, for your boys and for other people, I mean, that understanding what

Marvin: friendship truly is, right?

Marvin: Like those people that are with you in the darkness, or you tell them that it's

Marvin: important to you and they're as committed to you achieving that goal as you are, right? Right.

Greg: Yes. A hundred percent. Like it, for me, it was a big deal.

Greg: Like I said, you learned a lot from that, you know, you know,

Greg: I had, uh, believe it or not, like, you know, like, you know,

Greg: friends are, you know, friends try to have conversations.

Greg: They talk to you, they're trying to push you through, you know,

Greg: they also try to motivate you at times. And you know, like you hear everything

Greg: when you're doing something like this, right.

Greg: You know, everybody's talking, everybody's best got some kind of an opinion on something,

Greg: then you know so you hear all the bad stuff too you

Greg: know you hear the people you know like oh he

Greg: can't do this you you need certain type of

Greg: training you'd be able to do this kind of well you weren't here

Greg: for the months and months and months of training that was

Greg: going on you know maybe just because you can't do it doesn't mean i can't do

Greg: it you know what i mean so it was it was crazy to hear like what some people

Greg: that you that you knew people you know what they were saying when you were just

Greg: trying to do something good.

Greg: So yeah, you do. You do learn how your friends are.

Marvin: Yeah, and so what was your fundraising goal and how much have you collected so far?

Greg: So the goal was to raise $10,000. And I think we finished at around $7,000.

Greg: But let's be realistic with the current political climate and the interests

Greg: and inflation and everything else that's going on, I'm sure,

Greg: But Cross isn't a huge priority for people.

Greg: I respect that. You know what I mean? So to raise that kind of money, it was huge.

Greg: I'm just glad that people found merit in what I was doing and contributing that

Greg: kind of money to these kids. For me, that was a win.

Marvin: Yeah, and I would imagine, I think the last time we spoke, you've left the fundraising link open.

Marvin: You're going to leave it open for a little while after this interview comes out, right?

Greg: I did, yes.

Marvin: So I will drop that in the show notes for you, but how long will that link be

Marvin: active so we can get people to actually move and put some money in the jar?

Greg: I mean, I'll leave it open to the end of the month. You know what I mean?

Greg: Think about closing that thing on September 1st.

Greg: Anybody wants to contribute to it, great.

Greg: And if you want to see kind of what the journey was, that's available to you

Greg: as well. You can go on Instagram and go to pac.mule300.

Greg: And you can actually see all our certain videos,

Greg: usually like three to four a day along each day, along the journey to kind of

Greg: give people updates of, you know, where I was at, how I'm feeling,

Greg: you know, so they could kind of follow along.

Greg: You know, it's kind of hard sometimes to do social media when you're dying.

Greg: That's how I felt like out there. You know, like you're, you're pushing to meet

Greg: a goal where you're exhausted, you know, but I think I did a good job.

Greg: You know, I think I, I represented well for my community and,

Greg: you know, so like I said, it gave everybody a chance to follow along,

Greg: see where I was at for the day and, you know, that kind of deal, you know.

Marvin: Yeah. I, I, I, I followed along and I was like, you know, when you're,

Marvin: when you're hiking and you're drawing out socks, it's pretty serious business.

Greg: Yeah, like every 10 miles roughly, I was taking off my boots, taking off my socks.

Greg: I packed a small collapsible chair, you know, and I would teach myself to chill out, dry my socks out.

Greg: You know, that's, you know, part of this whole thing is like you set goals for

Greg: yourself and you push too hard.

Greg: And you don't account for certain things and you hit a wall, you know.

Greg: You hit multiple walls every day and you just got to overcome them.

Greg: But taking the socks off, sitting there in the sun, my suit out, yes, it was wonderful.

Greg: It was like some of the best times of the trip.

Marvin: Only replaced with the beer sticking your feet in the creek when you got to

Marvin: the end of the road, right?

Greg: That was pretty satisfying. It really hurt too. I mean, like hurt, hurt.

Greg: Like putting my feet in that 50 degree water, you know, at, oh boy,

Greg: you know, brought, you know, tears, tears of pain and joy.

Marvin: Yeah. And so, you know, if we

Marvin: kind of recap, you're probably not doing another pack mule anytime soon.

Greg: No, I'm not doing that again.

Marvin: Yeah. And you're not, you know, a hundred percent into fishing anymore.

Marvin: So, you know, what are you doing with all that great free time you have?

Greg: Well, I mean, it's kind of like what we talked about in this whole podcast.

Greg: I'm, you know, I'm parenting, I'm hunting, I'm exercising, I'm camping.

Greg: I love to cook. I'm cooking and I'm doing these things for me.

Greg: You know what I mean? I'm doing them for my family, my friends and,

Greg: you know, just, just living life now.

Greg: You know what I mean? I'm not worrying about being, uh, the repercussions of

Greg: losing my reputation on social media.

Marvin: Yeah. So book idea, book number three idea is a cookbook.

Greg: You know what? I have those type of notes already written up to do like a little

Greg: fly tie, life story, cook thing.

Greg: But then I'd be just like a new leader and I don't want to do that.

Greg: So, you know, they already have too many campfire stories. Yeah.

Marvin: And so, you know, you've got your own online store for materials and flies and

Marvin: stuff like that, you know, so folks wanted to check that out. Where should they go?

Greg: Yeah, so, I mean, if you need help, you can always call me at Schultz Outfitters.

Greg: That's what I tell everyone. Call me there. I'll help you do whatever you want.

Greg: If you don't want to talk to anybody and you just want to order online,

Greg: you can go through my Great San Diego Fly Tying that has limited materials on

Greg: there and all of my slides through awkward slides are on there.

Greg: So, they do the best commercial salon flies around.

Greg: So, that's where you would go get that stuff if you want.

Marvin: Got it and you know what if folks want to follow your adventures at the vice

Marvin: on the water and in the field where should they go.

Greg: Yeah i mean honestly you can't

Greg: anymore like my personal you know go

Greg: to my instagram you can you can follow if

Greg: you want but i i don't put an emphasis on

Greg: showing the world what i'm doing anymore and uh

Greg: but if you send me a message or you need help

Greg: with something like that shooting i'll answer

Greg: it when i see it so you know

Greg: best thing to do is if you want me is to call me at the store or

Greg: uh send me an email which uh anybody there on

Greg: staff would give you and and uh you know i hate to say maybe you'll sue me a

Greg: little bit on youtube doing try time videos for uh good old mike there at the

Greg: store but uh that's it man you know shit marvin Just to be honest with you,

Greg: this might be the last podcast I do.

Greg: I don't know if I really need to do another one. So I hope everyone enjoys it.

Marvin: Yeah, so you're becoming like the hermit Obi-Wan Kenobi on Tatooine and Star Wars, right?

Greg: Yeah, don't poke the bear. There won't have to be a new series.

Marvin: There you go. Well, listen, Greg, I really appreciate you carving out a little

Marvin: bit of time for me. It's been fun.

Greg: No, man, I really appreciate it. I've been looking forward to doing this podcast

Greg: with you and I hope you're out there enjoying your fishing time with your, your family.

Greg: And, uh, I'm sure I'll see you soon.

Marvin: You bet. Take care.

Greg: Take care.

Intro: Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.

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Intro: Tight lines, everybody.