Sarah Kleiner, welcome back. Good to see you.

Good to see you. As always. Thank you for having

me.

I love having you. And I'm excited because today

we're going to talk about sunlight and all the

ways that it's amazing for us. But first I wanted

to start. So I did an interview earlier this week

with the founders husband and wife who founded

Boncharge. And because they're in Australia, the

interview is at like 8pm so when I was having

dinner with the family, I made all my children

come up with questions for the Bontarsh people.

And my daughter Twyla, who's 11, she was like,

ask, ask him how the orange glasses get orange.

So I did, and it was like a really fun answer

that I'm like, I didn't actually know that. So I

said, twyla, that was a really good question.

Thanks. She's like, no problem. When's your next

podcast? I'm like, it's with my friend Sarah

Kleiner. And she's like, oh, does she do. I said,

she's a health coach. She's like, okay, you

should ask her why she became a health coach. And

I was like, oh, gosh, okay. And then she pauses

and she goes, does she have any siblings? I said,

yeah, she has a sister. She said, two. Two

sisters. Okay. She goes, you should ask her what

they think of all this quantum biology stuff. I

love that.

I should have her over to help me questions for

my guests.

She's available.

Amazing summer internship.

So anyway, I feel like that's actually fun. Like,

what, what do your sisters think of all this?

Because I know it's, it's, you know. Yeah, it's

like everyone has people in their family who are

like, what are you talking about?

Yeah, I'm the black sheep of the family.

Absolutely. Yeah. We just say that we are very. I

mean, I love my sisters very, very dearly. And

we're close. We talk almost every day, really,

but we don't talk about health because we have a

lot of disagreements on that topic. And yeah,

it's, it can be a little bit touchy that we

definitely choose to raise our children

differently than one another and we choose to

live our lives differently. And yeah, and it's,

it's a touchy situation. There's definitely

differences in our health. I will say that

without kind of. I don't know, I love them so

much, you know, so I never want to talk badly

about my own family, but I. It's hard to watch my

sisters who are younger than me. I'm the oldest

it's hard to watch them begin to really struggle

with their health. We're in our 40s. I just

turned 46 yesterday.

And happy birthday.

Thank you. They're younger than me, and so I. I

have a hard time, like, biting my tongue and not

saying stuff because. Because I'm like, that is.

That problem you're dealing with is completely

preventable through sunlight exposure, diet,

lifestyle changes. But they kind of. I think

they've seen me go through so many different ways

of looking at health and trying on so many

different hats over the years. And it's been.

Since we were, like, children, you know, I was

always the one getting them to dance to Richard

Simmons sweating to the oldies, you know, like.

They would.

Come along on my wild ideas. They're like, okay.

And then after a while, they're like, she's

insane. We're not doing this anymore. So I get

it. I understand why they don't want to, like,

listen. But. Yeah, that's kind of that story.

Yeah, that totally makes sense. Yeah. And my. My.

I have a brother. He's like, 100 uninterested in

any of this. He's like, but, yeah, you can. We

can still have a relationship and do all the

things and. And it's fun. You know, it's

interesting. The eye of the beholder, right?

Because when it. When it's your sister and you're

like, oh, God, what is she into now? But, you

know, as. As a friend, as a colleague, I see it

as, you know, the evolution of your education,

trying all of these different things, and your

spiritual development and your, you know, growth

as a practitioner is through the experiential

learning that you had by trying things out since

you were a child.

You learn a lot about what doesn't work. You

know, you really do. And that's a lot of. On

social media right now. I just did a post about

nutrition. Half truths. Because it seems as

though if you really talk an authoritative tone

and you talk down to people, even if what you're

saying is not true or there's maybe a bit of

truth to it, that people really love that and

they really will. You'll grow fast. You'll go

viral. You'll get all the clicks and the likes,

and I can't operate that way, number one. But

number two, it's really become the. The lay of

the land, unfortunately. And it's hurting people.

It is really hurting, hurting people. I sit

across from people on zoom on a very regular

basis that they have bought in, like, really 100,

bought into some of these really polarizing

people online. And I did the same thing. Like I

said, I've learned a lot about what doesn't work,

and it's. It's not good what happens to people on

the other end. You know, I wish that people that

have made these online Personas could see the

things that I see. Maybe they do. Maybe they do.

I don't know. Maybe they get the emails and the.

The messages from people, or maybe they've chosen

to. To look a blind eye, you know, draw a blind

eye towards it. I don't know. But it's wild out

there.

Yeah, it is. And you're right. I mean, there's

something about someone just speaking

authoritatively and like, maybe. Maybe making you

feel, like, a little bit stupid. And you're just

like, what? Tell me more. And having it be on a

screen. There's like, something about your

professional views, like an authoritative

presence, camera work and good editing and.

Yeah, that's how it works, you guys. It's called

the mainstream media that you've rejected.

Yes, but that's the thing. We were trained on it.

So we're like, I'm gonna reject those people on

cnn, but like, this guy on Instagram can feed me

any nonsense. It's fine.

I'm just not interested in having con. I want to

have thoughtful dialogue with people. I want to

connect with people and have a meaningful

conversation. I really do. I don't want to tell

people exactly what to do because I don't know

exactly what someone should do. I know some great

foundations that I think everyone should have in

place, but there's so much nuance to. In. To the

individual person, and it does a big disservice

when we make people think that they can't survive

without us. You know, I think a post I did

recently that said something like, the. The worst

teachers are the ones that think that the healing

was all because of them, you know, that you

couldn't do it without them. And the best

teachers are the ones who remind you that the

healing was yours all along, you know? Yeah.

Yes. And to empower ourselves to. To remember

that. And while we have help along the way and

support along the way and learn from mentors and

practitioners, it's inner work. And so you

mentioned foundational pieces that are to have in

place. And then beyond that, there's lots of

nuance. So one of those foundational pieces is

for sure, the sun and sunlight. And I just want

to do a deep dive into that. We have a lot of new

listeners and even people who've been around for

a while. It's like, I think it's really worth

just going through some of the key ways that we

benefit from not cutting ourselves off from what

is essentially the source of light, of life. And,

you know, we talk about obviously safe and

sensible ways to do that. But let's just start

with why we need the sun.

Well, light really gives the body instructions to

do everything we need it to do. That's a basic.

We want the right type of light at the right

times, and then the right, you know, enough

darkness and darkness period at the right times.

This clock in our brain called the

superchiasmatic nucleus, it really is giving

instructions to everything in your body. And so

were meant to run on what's called a circadian

rhythm. Now, this is being studied in big pharma.

You know, it has been for a long time. I know

you've had Dr. See, hold on here. And he and I

talked about the same thing of this whole thing

of medicine studying the circadian timing of

medication, how certain times of day it's going

to work better. Certain times of day, there's a

chance for more toxicity. Our body is the same

thing. Our gut runs on this rhythm. You know,

certain times of the day we have more digestive

function, more stomach acid, more enzymatic

function. Certain times of the day, hormones are

meant to start going in a. In a symphony run on a

circadian rhythm. Again, this should be signaled

by light and darkness. And so if we're missing

these crucial elements, and as a fa, it's a

foundation, our metabolism's not going to work

properly, our gut's not going to work properly,

our brain's not going to work properly. The, the

information on circadian health and mental health

is extensive. You know, all the dysfunction, all

the things that everyone talks about, gut health,

mental health and hormone health, those are the

big hot topics in the holistic wellness and

alternative wellness space. That's a foundation,

you know, for any of these things to work. And I

think that people are so quick to look at what

supplement can I take and what diet can I do? And

not that those things don't have a time and a

place, but if the foundation is weak, as in your

circadian rhythms aren't dialed in, good luck,

you know, good luck with those things working as

effectively as they could or should.

Right? And I think that's the piece that so many

people are still missing. It's like, oh, yeah, I

guess I feel better when I go outside. But it's

like, you wouldn't go a day without Drinking

water. Right. Like, you wouldn't go an extended

period of time without eating real food. And yet

we still sort of. I don't think it's truly

landed. I know for a lot of people listening to

this podcast, it has. But for all your friends

and neighbors and family. Right. Like, it hasn't

truly landed. Like, we are an extension of this

light source and without it, we can't. Like,

everything else is a band aid.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We can keep trying to push

things together and make things work, but if you

don't have the foundation, like I said, good

luck. It's going to be that much more difficult

cold. So metabolism is a big one. You know, I

always. I always say I kind of trick people to

come into my deeper work through talking about

weight loss, because, yeah, you can use this to

improve your metabolism. I have, you know, I've

struggled with my weight my entire life. Has lost

£100, three times. Just really a lot of struggles

with my metabolic health. Even on a really quote

unquote clean diet. My fasting blood sugar was

still high. It was still 90s low 100s, a lot of

days. And until I added these elements of light.

And it's very simple. People think it has to be

the way that we're taught a specific protocol and

getting X amount of minutes. And it doesn't have

to be perfect, but you do have to provide the

brain with the right signals for the metabolism

to function optimally. And what the research

clearly shows us is that if your days, your

mornings are too dim and your nights are too

bright, then that alone slows down the

metabolism. So you can again go on a very

restrictive diet. Eat clean, try to do all the

things, yet live the way that everyone lives,

which is waking up in the morning, looking at the

phone, turning on lights indoors and indoors.

Your lux, which is a measure of brightness, is

going to max out typically around 500, and that's

very, very bright. I would say the lux in my

house when I've measured it, is like 30, because

we don't do a bunch of overhead lights. When you

go outdoors, even on a cloudy, overcast day, the

lux can get up to like 10,000. And the brain

needs a minimum of about a thousand. When you

look at all the data and the research together,

it needs about a minimum of a thousand. You know,

up to 10,000 in that morning window. As well as

the signals from sunlight, we get the red, the

infrared, that's important for mitochondria, we

get UV light, that's important for metabolism,

for fat burning. We get all of that from simply

stepping outside during those, those windows of

time. It's such a, it's such a huge boost for the

metabolism and the mitochondria, which is

essentially the body's energy management system.

If those don't work, then again, good luck. But

our indoor living, our modern life prevents us

from getting those signals. There's no red and

infrared indoors. There's no UV light indoors

because we have energy efficient homes and we've

been taught that UV light is harmful. So we block

it all out so that alone can slow down your

metabolism. And that has been studied over and

over again. So you can fact check.

This is crazy. I mean, this is crazy. Like, if I,

you know, I was talking to my college roommate a

few months ago and she's like, oh, I put on

weight, you know, I didn't change anything. It

was, you know, it's hormonal. And so she, you

know, we just like revert back to what we learned

when we were paying attention, even if it was 10

years ago, 20 years ago, whatever. So she's like,

I got, I gotta get a peloton and like start, you

know, skipping lunch or something. And the idea

that, that her, you know, her hormones and her

metabolism is all, you know, all is connected

are, could be affected by the light that she's

getting. Like she was, you know, like, it just

seemed insane. So tell us like a little more

about, about how light controls our metabolism.

Right. Like this is for, I know this is like,

this is for my college roommate Julie. That's who

this question is for.

Well, there's a lot of elements to light that

signal the metabolism. I kind of just jumbled

them all in there. But to break it down, simply

sunrise is when we get that first little hit of

blue that tells the brain let's, you know, turn

off melatonin, start gradually making cortisol.

And if you, if you go online, there's this whole

cortisol face. Cortisol this, cortisol that.

Cortisol is the root of all evil for weight gain.

And the reason you're gaining weight is your

cortisol. And it's like, again, like, it's a

partial truth. We are meant to have cortisol rise

in the morning and that's with that timing of the

blue light that's from outdoors. So at sunrise we

get this beautiful red and infrared that speaks

directly to mitochondria, that allows us to make

this metabolic water, that allows us to expand

the cellular water in the body, which is like a

battery of Energy. So you think about, we're

supporting mitochondria, which, as I mentioned,

is the body's energy management system. By

getting out there at sunrise, getting that hit of

blue light. It's a very little bit of blue light

that comes on the horizon at sunrise. And it's

gradual to make cortisol in this natural, gradual

way. Now, I mentioned Lux. There's a difference

between Lux and Kelvin. I know this can confuse

people. There's a lux meter in my app, my

circadian app, that we'll talk about later on in

the episode, I'm sure. But indoors, the lux is

way too low, as I mentioned, maybe 500 maximum.

Most places it's going to be much dimmer than

that. So you've got the element of Lux being too

dim, but then you have the Kelvin being way too

high. So Kelvin is a, is another measurement of

light. And Kelvin in our indoor modern lighting

bulbs are like 5700, 6000. Your, your iPhone

screen or your phone screen is usually 5700 or

6000. So that is enough blue light, enough

brightness, again, not brightness, but enough

blue light really. And intensity. Kelvin is like

intensity of that light. Intensity also signals

the brain and says, hey, it's the middle of the

day. It's June. It's in the middle of the day.

Even though it might be December at like 7am It's

a signal to that clock in the brain that is

activated by blue light. Says, you got to hurry

up and make more cortisol because we've, we've

slept in and now you've got to hurry up and make

more. So we get a natural rise of cortisol, we

get metabolic support, mitochondrial support from

sunrise, we get a metabolic confusion, or as

ChatGPT would call it, metabolic chaos. Everyone

sees in Chat GPT these days, everyone's got

metabolic chaos. I know you use chat GPT for your

post. Hormone chaos. Anywho, your phone is giving

you metabolic chaos. Hormone chaos. Sunlight is

this beautiful symphony of light that, that gives

your body the right signals. And so that's the,

that's the first window of light that you really

want to get out there for. Then we have UV light,

which, as I mentioned, has really been demonized.

But UV light, especially in the eyes and then on

the skin, there's some benefits as well. But it's

eye and skin. I've got the papers on that in my

leptin master plan course. It tells the brain to

make something called Alpha msh, which is kind of

like fat burning, right? So it's it boosts your

metabolism in, in a very non scientific

explanation. Explanation. It's boosting your

metabolism, boosting fat burning and it regulates

your appetite. So I have a lot of people that

come to me that they have no appetite in the

morning. They're just like, oh guess what? That's

probably too much cortisol from what did I just

mention before? The phone screen and the lights

part of it, stress, the coffee, just getting this

huge spike and of course you're not hungry. And

so the way I have people to start regulating

their appetite is sunrise light because that's

going to start those metabolic clocks spinning

appropriately. But then you've got UV light where

you get production of serotonin, dopamine, alpha

msh and that can help to regulate the appetite.

So if you're someone who's never been hungry in

the morning, I'm like, don't force feed yourself.

Maybe have like a little something, little

protein, get it started. But don't make yourself

sick. But go outside during that UVA window when

UVA first begins to come online. That's right

after sunrise, depending on where you are. That's

why I put that in my app, my circadian app, so

you can understand, oh, it's 45 minutes after

sunrise. It's in the app. It'll tell you try to

get out there at the beginning of that and if you

can spend 20 minutes out there, that can do

wonders for your appetite and your metabolism.

Plus you get the lux, you get that appropriate

amount of lux and brightness. So for metabolic

benefits that's really, and I'm, there's more

elements to it. Right? We could probably have a

six hour long podcast about all of this, but this

is a dumbed down yes, we.

Just, we want the, we just want the essentials.

Yeah, yeah, it's like, yeah, I like to give

enough information for people to, to be able to

decide to take action. Right. And then if you, if

it's important to you to understand every little

minutia of the science there, by all means go

study it. But I think for most people it's like

especially it's like I need to know enough to,

for this to make sense cognitively. Like my, my

intellect needs enough information to be able to

say, okay, that is a logical good choice. And

we're also, when it comes to the sun, we also are

having to counterbalance like 20 years worth of

propaganda saying that the sun is going to kill

us and we should never go, we should be covered

up everywhere every time we go outside. So.

We also get Nitric oxide, which is, you know,

I've been talking a lot about perimenopause

because I'm in the thick of it myself. You know,

I'm at that age. But I feel like this stuff helps

so, so much. And one thing that can happen to a

woman as she goes towards menopause is nitric

oxide levels go way down. Now this is also true

in people with cardiovascular issues. And one of

the things that UV light does, and if you can get

that morning uva, like get that process started

in the morning, is increase your, your body's

nitric oxide production. So that's going to

improve certain circulation again, another

metabolic boost, beta endorphin. So a lot of

people start to do this stuff and they're like, I

crave it, I need it. That's how I, that's how I

am now. But your body makes beta endorphins in

the morning and it's such a great. And dopamine,

it's so many wonderful things. Such a great way

to start your day rather than scrolling. And

coffee.

Yeah. And just on the coffee, would your guidance

be to push it later for those of us who still

like to have our coffee?

I do. I, I like people to push it a bit later.

You know, I'll do good structured mineral water,

some hydrogen water. When I first wake up, walk

around the backyard grounding with my dog. She

always, she's like the reason, okay, I gotta go

outside and walk around because my dog just has

to go out. So grounding water. Then I go inside

and eat something, then I'll have some coffee. I

went a couple of years without coffee and yeah,

it improved my hrv, it improved my sleep,

probably was supportive to thyroid and adrenals,

help me probably get pregnant, stay pregnant and,

you know. But then my son was born, life got

crazy and I just missed my coffee. So I have

coffee, but I always have sunlight, some

grounding, some hydration, some breakfast, then

I'll have some coffee. And then I cut myself off

by 9 o' clock. I just don't do it after 9am

because it can be a circadian disruptor for sure.

Right.

Because it's giving that cortisol spike when

you're perhaps not meant to be having it. Yeah,

got it. Okay, then let's talk about sunrise for a

little bit. So I know, I know for me there are

certain times of years, certain times of the year

where I am up at sunrise, but there are also

certain times of the year where sunrise is so

early that I am fast asleep at Sunrise. So I

would say it's probably like an hour later that I

wake up and go outside. Am I still getting

benefits? And for, for people who, you know, for

whatever scheduling reasons are not up at

sunrise, is it just like go outside and get the

morning light? Whatever time it is, is that still

helping?

I've learned about just coaching and teaching and

understanding this whole thing is it doesn't have

to to be perfect, it just has to be consistent.

You know, just start to develop some consistency.

And yeah, it's in the summer and I have people

that live way up in Canada and Sweden and places

where the sun doesn't even set in the summer,

which can be a whole other conversation. I feel

like I need to do a video for my YouTube channel

because I keep getting so many people with these

questions and I have a whole module about it in

my sunwise course and in my leptin. Like I have

modules behind my, in my courses that go into

this and give you tons of strategies and

protocols. But what I've kind of come to the

conclusion of after working with so many people

and so many people in my community is that number

one, it's consistency over perfection. I think in

the summertime it's really just more important to

have a consistent wake time and a consistent

sleep time. And we typically, unless someone's

dealing with a chronic illness, they're really

trying to heal from something, we can get away

with a little bit less sleep in the summer. Then

we need more in the winter. Like summer is

vitamin D season. We're supposed to be soaking it

up. We're supposed to have longer days, make a

little bit more cortisol. Winter, we're supposed

to be sleeping more, really pumping out that

melatonin, pumping in repair, autophagy, all that

really supposed to be in repair mode in the

winter. That's a whole other conversation because

most people live like it's summer year round. But

I think that in the summertime, wake times, if

you can get a little bit of sunrise in there, I

mean just before UV light hits, it's going to be

a little bit of a different signal than the uv.

So yeah, it's just really going to depend on

where you live. I live in Georgia, so the latest

our sunrise really comes up. I think it's like

6:30. That's doable. Yeah, but if it was 5:30,

girl, I'd be sleeping.

Yeah, that's where I'm at right now. It's 5:30

and I'm like, I'm not.

Gonna have a five.

Yeah. 6:15 is my, is my earliest. And I've tried,

I've tried forcing myself to get up because I'm

like, I have to see the sunrise. That's the

thing. And I'm really tired all day, even with

the sunrise because I just wasn't ready to get

up. So yeah, I'm like, okay, so in this, in

those. When the sun rises at 5:15.

I know Dr. Sarah, she's flying in here tomorrow.

She's gonna be staying with me for like a month

tomorrow. She, she doesn't have children. She

does live in the uk and I know she gets up for

the sunrise there, which is like four in the

morning in the summer. But I can't do that.

Wouldn't do that probably. Even if I lived in the

UK, I probably would still be like 6:30 gal.

Yeah, no, that's okay. Good. I'm glad we had this

chat and I wanted to have it because I, I know

that when you're first learning something,

everyone wants to like do it perfectly perfect

and perfect. You know, we develop all these

purity tests and everything. And it's like, you

know, close enough is good enough. And

consistency, consistency is the key. Absolutely.

My, my group members are so good now. They, they

repeat it to me. They're like consistency over

perfection. And I think I say that in a lot of my

courses. At the end of each lesson, I really want

to drill that into people because we can't be

perfect. We just literally cannot be perfect. We

can be consistent though, to the best of our

ability. And when our head hits the pillow at

night, we know we did our best. We can do that.

But life's gonna happen sometimes. It really is.

And so you just. Consistency is gonna go a long

way. And remember that for most of your life you

didn't have access to this information. You

weren't implementing it. And now here we are. So

let's just do our best.

Yep. And we will. So, yeah, it's consistent sun,

not perfect sun. So what do you hear from people?

Like, what are some of the biggest sun myths that

you'd like to, that you'd like to burst? And then

I have some other stuff I want to ask you.

More is better. Avoiding seed oils will give you

the superpower ability to lay out in the sun for

six hours straight in a year UV of 11. No. Yeah,

don't do that.

No.

There. And I think a lot of people, myself

included, came into this information and, and

what I was following people who said that. And I

did photo age my skin. I did get some Wrinkles

from overdoing it. And now you can find me in a

wide brimmed hat, a visor. I still don't wear

sunscreen because I'm never in a situation where

I can't control the amount of sun that I'm

getting. I can always go to the shade or put on

some clothing like cover up. But I think that

there's so many researchers out there and there

are people that want the clicks and the views and

the likes and so they put out this information

that's very dogmatic and again talks down to

people and is just rude. Like I read some of

these posts and I'm like, rude?

Yeah.

How does this have 3,000 likes? It's rude. I

don't like it. I don't like to see people being

talked to that way. And then they're like, but I

can never. But I don't. And I'm like, it just

doesn't work that way, guys. There can be a case

where someone may need to wear a non nano zinc

oxide sunscreen. There may be a case, and this is

blasphemy, where someone may need to wear a pair

of sunglasses that are something like Raw Optics,

Blue Sync or I know Bon Charge has some that are.

That they won't shut down your circadian rhythm.

But our eyes are not meant to get glare off of

sidewalks, off of water, off of really white sand

like you see on the Gulf. I mean like that hurts.

It damages the retina. It puts your body and your

nervous system into a state of fight flight. It's

an unnatural reflection of the sun and it can

hurt your eyes. So there. That's one of the

biggest pet peeves of mine lately is that people.

If you live in Canada and you've decided to go to

Florida and it's March, you need to be really

careful. Like you don't. You can really burn

yourself if you think that you're not avoiding,

you're avoiding seed oils and you're going out in

the morning for sunrise and for uva and you can

spend all day on the beach. Like you know, you

may not want to do that. Not to say that those

things don't help. They absolutely do help there.

I just put out an article in my newsletter

recently about skin protective foods. You've got

astaxanthin. There are phytochemicals and

compounds in things like lycopene that do protect

the skin from strong UV and that they actually

have some like built in sunscreen effects. There

is a lot of scientific data that shows things

like seed oils can actually mutate and cause skin

cancers. And I put those papers in that article

as well. But it doesn't make us immune. Like

there's a certain point that everyone's body will

come to depending on your Fitzpatrick skin type,

depending on if you've built up resilience and

solar tolerance and callous. So yeah, that's my

long winded answer.

Yes. Yes. And it's. It goes back to like that

perfectionism thing and the ability to have like

a balanced mind and a mature cognitive capacity

where it's like, oh, the sun is really good for

me, but that doesn't mean eight hours outside in

a UV 11 when I'm fair skinned and I'm not used to

it is good for me. Like it's not all one thing.

There, there is balance. Like fat is good for me,

but that doesn't mean I'm going to eat an all fat

diet or I'm going to. Right. Like we.

Or nothing but sugar. That's the new thing. Yeah,

the sugar diet. That's got everyone.

What?

Why are you guys so mad about this right now?

People are so mad about the sugar diet.

What's the sugar diet? I only follow like you and

my quantum people. So when weird things happen,

I'm like, what? What's happening? What's this

craze?

It's a thing. It's a thing people are doing. Mark

Bell is doing it and just talking about how

shredded he's getting from it. It's so dumb.

I swear to God. You put a picture of yourself

looking fit on the, on the Internet and then say

I got looking like this by doing this and it's

like somehow proof that that's the best thing to

do for everybody. What sugar diet? So like, like,

like fruit or like.

Like sugar, like fruit and candy is what people

are. Maple syrup, honey.

Sorry. What's the like rationale for like what

are they?

It's hitting the other side of the Randall cycle

and there is a hormone, I think it's called FG1.

I don't know. I talked with Dr. Sarah about this

whole thing on my YouTube channel and all the

carnivores came out of the woodwork and were like

pissed off. Which we weren't even like saying

people should do it. We were just discussing it

and like what it was and how it worked. Everyone

got so mad.

You can't talk about sugar. Yeah, we get a little

attached to these concepts, don't we? And then

they become like our, our safety, our safety

blanket our personality. And so Whenever any

information, and especially if it comes through

someone who we think is on our side and it's like

interfering with what we believe, it's the way

it's supposed to be, we get really triggered.

Yeah, I just don't, I'm not on anyone's like,

quote unquote side. I think I piss people off

because even the sun stuff, I'm like, yeah,

sometimes you might need to protect your eyes on

the water or on snow sometimes.

Which is, which is a true and reasonable thing to

say. And it's only because we can't. A lot of us

came to this information through such a, you

know, one sided, dogmatic, puritanical, stupid

really approach that. Like, of course you need to

wear goggles when you're skiing. Of course you

need to protect your eyes if you're out on a boat

or anywhere with a glare. And our family learned

that, like, we were like, oh, this, we want to

get as much sun as possible. And we went on a ski

trip and we had gone on like a beach trip and

we'd been, you know, we didn't use sunscreen. We

did all the other things instead and went in the

shade when we got pink and all this stuff and it

was great. So then we went on a ski trip and

we're like, ah, all the sun all the time and we

didn't put on sunblock. And one day we were, we

were in the like the Alps, which is really high

altitude. It was, it was stupid. It was stupid.

And after one day we were like, we're idiots. We

bought some zinc. But, you know, this is how we

learn.

I mean, I did, I had to learn for myself.

Thankfully, there's no irreparable damage that's

been done. I don't, I don't know, I feel like

it's hard to do irreparable, irreparable damage.

I don't know why I can't talk today. Because

people freak out about this stuff and think that

they have with their health. And I, I always say,

you're only broken if you say you are you.

There's no point of return if you say there's no

point of return. So yeah, we screw up, we make

mistakes, but we have highly adaptable bodies if

we can course correct. So, you know, sunburn.

Okay.

Oops.

Yeah.

Yeah. And as you said, you know, the, the UV

light will cause photo damage. And so I've become

as well, a hat wearer. So people who've met me in

the last five years are like, oh, you're really

love wearing hats. Like, oh, I do now. This is

just about. Yeah. Developing a way of living

that's not insane, that doesn't feel super hard.

Like, maybe changing habits in the beginning does

require a lot of support. Support. That's why I

think it's good that you have communities, that

there are health coaches. Right. Like, we do need

that support to change things, to do new things,

Things that maybe the people in our normal lives

are like, why would you do that? But once it

becomes a habit, you don't have to think about it

anymore, Right?

Correct.

And you don't have to hold yourself to some kind

of false standard that you've concocted from

various Instagram posts of people telling you

there's only one way to do things.

Exactly.

So before we wrap up, I want to talk about the

app, because for anyone listening who does want

to embrace the sun, I just. I want to say Sarah

and I have both embraced this way of life. And I

don't know, I think we look really good. I don't

feel wrinkled. You look way younger than you just

said you were. So it's fun. I have more energy. I

feel so much better. I no longer suffer from

chronic fatigue. And it's not like everything's

perfect all of the time, but it's like, if you've

ever changed your eating habits and you're like,

oh, wow, how did I ever eat that way before? I

feel so much better. It's. It's like that with.

But with a son.

Exactly.

And a very helpful way to, like, get inside of

this and do it sensibly and effectively is to use

the Circadian app that Sarah had made. She hired

a designer and, like, she's like, here's all the

things that are important to track, like, make an

app. Tell us. Tell us about it, because I think

it's really good.

Yeah. It's called my Circadian app. It's all one

word. And I had a lot of clients and people with

brain fog, and they just. I was giving them

several different apps to help them to figure out

these different things. And so the app will

essentially let you know what time, Daybreak,

sunrise, uva, which we talked about those earlier

in the episode, why they're important. Uvb.

That's when we actually make vitamin D, because

people, most people have no idea that you only

can synthesize D at certain parts of the day in

certain parts of the year. So the app is going to

let you know when that happens for you. And it

has a timer in there, so you can Put in your skin

type and how much clothing you're wearing, and

the app will say you need to, you know, it'll

kind of gauge the time based on UV index, skin

type, clothing, how safe it is for you to be out

there. Now, obviously, you never want to override

your own tuition because an app says you have,

like, two more minutes. If you feel, like, really

warm and you're getting that erythema dose in the

skin, you're feeling kind of warm, then go, you

know, get out of it. But I find it to be pretty

spot on for people that are just building a

relationship with the sun. So that timer, the D

timer, will help you to figure out how long is

appropriate for you to be out in that stronger

light. Also lets you know when sunset happens,

when nightfall happens. I use that as my reminder

to get the blue blockers out, start mitigating

the artificial light at night, because we didn't

really talk about that, but that's another huge

metabolic destroyer, really. And there's tons of

literature on that. I know Meredith has tons of

episodes on that, but the app will let you know

when that's happening. And then with the full

version, you can forecast up to five days in

advance. So you can know what time sunrise is

tomorrow, the next day, the next day, uva. Right.

Because these times change, as we mentioned, with

the early sunrises in the summer, it's not like

that in the winter, It's a bit later in the

winter. So these times just change a little bit

every single day depending on where you live. The

further north you live, the more extreme the

change is from day to day. Like me, it's a little

more moderate, but it really gives you all in one

what you need to know. It's got a lux meter, so

you can understand. Am I getting enough Lux in

the morning, even if it's cloudy and rainy? Oh,

I'm going to measure my Lux, and that's going to

give me that little extra motivation to get out

there and get that light. Even though it's not

very pretty, it's not very fun. And then you can

measure Lux in your bedroom at night, too,

because there's also studies. And the app has

tons of studies in there, so it backs up all this

information that you want to have Your lux below

10 the three hours leading up to bed, along with

the blue blockers. And so you can measure from

where you're sitting. Like, is it dim enough

here? Because I've seen people sit in front of

these really bright red light therapy panels that

can trigger the cortisol response, if that goes

in. So it's just got all that. It's got a moon

tracker to tell you phases of the moon. It's got

a compass to tell you north, south, east, and

west. So lots of cool stuff in there. And we even

just got a red screen mode, so you can. Oh, cool.

Yeah, you can go in Settings and it'll adapt the

app for red screen mode so that you can see, you

know, because red screen will wipe out certain

apps. You're like, what's happening? So it has a

red screen mode now, which is pretty cool.

Oh, that's so good.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I definitely recommend downloading this

app, my Circadian app, because it's like one of

those things, you're like, okay, like, I'll do

the sunlight thing. And then as you start doing

it, you're like, oh, wait, what about this? Oh,

wait, what about that? And so this app just

answers all the questions and you know that, you

know, you're keeping yourself safe and not

staying out too long. And then, as you said,

Sarah, eventually you'll know intuitively. But

it's a really great way to get started and stay

on track. I use it all the time. I didn't know

about the bed, like, using it in my bedroom to

make sure it's dark enough. That's a good pro tip.

Your sleeping environment, love it less and a

one. But that evening environment, 10 and below,

three hours getting up to bed. So, yeah, Sarah

and I, when we watch tv, I'll put a pair of blue

blockers over the lens and, like, measure, like.

Okay, we're good. Cover up the skin, watch a

little tv.

Okay, good. I was gonna ask of, like, what if

you're wearing blue blockers but watching Netflix.

Yeah.

So we're still okay?

Yeah.

And good. All right, well, thanks for jumping on

and sharing all of this. It's going to be so

helpful. And this is such a good episode to share

with your friends who are like, what are you

doing? Why are you wearing those glasses? What's.

What's going on? Where's your SPF 50? You can

just send them this episode. That's what this is

for. And you can follow Sarah, Sarah Kleiner

Wellness on Instagram. She provides tons of super

great information on there. You have a newsletter

and of course, the Circadian app.

Amazing. Thank you for having me. Okay. Yeah,

thank you.

We'll see you soon.

Alrighty.