Hello and welcome to this week's Choosing Happy Podcast.

I'm Heather Masters, your host, and this week I had the pleasure of speaking again to Sheila Fairbank.

She's the author of three books.

Her new book, Bobbin and His Popular Penguin Pals, is published on April 25.

So it's very timely that this episode goes out.

I really enjoy talking to her.

She has a fascinating story about how she writes and particularly this book on about her research on penguins and who makes us happier than a happy penguin.

So join me today in this week's Choosing Happy Podcast.

And I do apologize for the beginning.

The recording's a little bit dodgy.

But stay tuned, it does get better.

And I'll see you inside this week's Choosing Happy Podcast.

Choosing Happy Podcast.

And again, I'm really honored to be speaking to Sheila Fairbank.

She's an author and also an illustrator.

Probably an illustrator, she would say.

And today we're talking about a new book.

She's actually written another book since the last time we spoke to her.

So welcome, Sheila.

Thank you and thanks for having me.

It's lovely to have you.

And can you begin by just catching us up on where you are with your writing journey and a little bit of how you got there?

Where I am now, I've just finished my third book, to the point of all the text is done, which is a children's rhyming picture book.

That's the theme and that's what I do.

And I've just got to continue with the images that I'm putting in there.

Before that, I wrote my second book in the theme after getting the bug in 22 and starting writing.

So this is a group of a series of books about an elf that goes on missions set by his queen and has the time of his life, really.

And the latest book is all about all the penguins of the world, because most people think about penguins just in Antarctica, but they're all over the place.

So it's been a lovely challenge.

That's where I am today.

Just been curious.

How many penguins are there in the world?

Because I would have thought about four or five, but.

There are actually 18.

And the challenge with this is they're only in the Southern Hemisphere.

They're in four or five continents.

They are of different types, they're of different heights, and they go from over a meter tall to 30 centimeters.

So they are a wealth of interest to write about.

And what I don't know about penguins isn't worth it, I think, because I've done loads of research on it and it's been lots of fun.

So, yeah, there are 18 sorts in different groups.

How did you choose penguins?

What's the fascination with my husband?

We went on a cruise last year around South America and I've always, you know, lots of people have said about penguins, oh, you're going to see the penguins.

And I didn't, I know the cute and the lovely and they're quite a jolly looking character, but I didn't, you know, they were there.

It wasn't, wasn't in my psyche about, oh, they're wonderful.

I got to go and find them.

And we went to the Falkland Islands, amongst other places around South America and we saw a group of different penguins that were there and they just captivate you.

They are exactly that you see on the, on the screens.

They are so much fun.

They're so interesting.

And most people think they're black and white and they're not.

And that's where the story is.

So it's.

So that's where I got the bug.

And as soon as I came home, because the third book wasn't going to be about penguins, it was going to be about Africa and animals that way, which is a passion.

But this, I thought I've got to do this.

And there's not many books out there, particularly for children, that encompasses all of them.

So it has been quite interesting to do.

As I say, I didn't think there was that many.

So education for me.

Yeah.

So it's the, it's hard to work out who my audience is because a lot of adults that I've shown bits to think, oh, I didn't know that.

I think I'll go find out more about that.

So it's great.

Your books are about bobbin.

You just remind me how you started, how it all started, because I think that's interesting story.

Back in 2021, we were with friends up in the northeast and he was telling us how they, what they do with their grandchildren in terms of the games that they have.

And they've got a fairy tree in the garden and he was telling about how they decorate it and there's a pigeon that, that guards the tree so that none of the other birds can ruin it.

But he also said that he had created a little door in the skirting board next to the fireplace where the elves come in and visit his granddaughters and the children write to the fairy queen and ask questions.

So he's, he's got to think about the ways, he's got to think about the answers to in the tree and tell the children that they are there.

So when we were talking over dinner, I said, you've got a really good story here.

You write it and I'll illustrate it.

So that's what the thought was.

But then I couldn't sleep that night, so I did a mind map the following morning, asked him because we were going home.

Then the following day asked him if I'd missed anything and he said no.

And by the time I got home, I thought all about it and I was writing in the.

In a notebook.

And the following day I'd storyboarded it.

I'd never storyboarded anything before in my life.

Yes, as my career, I wrote courses for software and things like that.

So you've got to have a structure and you've got to have a meaning and a beginning, a middle and an end and a result.

So I knew that type of thing, but not in children's.

I mean, we haven't got any children.

So it's just pure imagination.

And I just wrote about what would happen.

What.

What did he.

Between the.

The skirting board and the tree in the garden, what happens.

So that was the.

And that was why I got into it.

So thanks to them and just finally Granddad narrated it.

I asked him if he would narrate his.

His idea of, you know, the.

The bones of what the story was.

So that was lovely too.

Brilliant.

So are all of your books on Audible?

Yes.

Yeah, they're all.

They're all converted in that sense.

Which is interesting when you think it's a picture book.

Yeah.

So it's.

Yeah, it's interesting.

So I hoped when I started writing to cover as many of the readers I possibly could.

So that's why we've got it in that.

So we've got it in ebook, audio and pictures.

You.

You take it.

Beyond that.

Did you had the idea of a game?

Did you.

Did you do that or coloring books?

I put activities in the book.

So we.

I put things like they do crosswords, they do word search.

They do.

They can draw things or play with things to doing that.

And I converted it into a jigsaw because the first book was all about a jigsaw, a missing piece of jigsaw by the granddaughter when she was doing it.

And she blamed the elves.

Why.

Why would the elves hide the last piece and not give me the last piece?

And it was actually in her cardigan pocket, so it was fun.

So I created a jigsaw of some of the images I've put in that book so they can do that as well.

So, yeah, I wanted to engage with all the children who, who the books in front of that they can do other things with it.

And I've followed that theme through to the third book as well.

Oh, it's all written in rhyme.

Yes.

Can you, can you cover a little bit about that and why that's your preference?

I find I have found it easy to write in rhyme.

I don't know why.

It is probably just the way my head works and my brain is wired.

But I do find that I can put it.

Put things or.

Or elements and situations into rhyme quite easily or I had done.

And I find that it's a very simple rhyme.

So it's only every second line that they rhyme.

So it's very, very easy.

And all the books are in four lines verses.

So I find it.

It's been a very interesting journey in writing in rhyme for publication.

We can do it when we're just putting on a card to our friends or whatever, but when you're actually putting it out to the bigger audience, it's quite different.

You.

You look at it differently and I just find it quite therapeutic in a.

In a funny sort of way.

I find it easy to do, but I also find it that it's.

I make it easy for the reader.

And you learn about cadence, you learn about rhythm, you learn about the structure of the previous line.

It's.

The next line has got to match that for it to be musical.

I don't mean that you sing it, but it has to have the same number of syllables if you possibly can.

So there's a lot to think about in writing a rhyme.

So it's been a very interesting journey the past three or four years in, In.

In converting a story that I've got in my head that I want things to happen into four line verses.

Yeah.

Because there must be children.

Yeah.

There must be a challenge keeping.

Keeping the narrative going while you're doing the rhyme.

Not, not going off, but a tangent if you like.

No.

And it's interesting in the way the book, the three books have gone.

The first one, I had a concept I had that they wanted to find something and they.

They were looking for the jigsaw and they eventually found it.

So it was a.

I'm a happy writer, I'm an optimistic writer.

It's always got to be happy ending.

So that was the first book.

So I did have a story and some challenges and success.

The second book was more of a journey of what Bobbin would see if he went up in a Hot air balloon.

So it was more a description of what he sees and the surprises that he sees and how he feels about those elements.

So that was quite different.

It wasn't.

It was just a floating around, if you like.

So he wasn't looking for anything, he wasn't trying to achieve anything.

It was just that.

And then the third book is.

Did you know that penguins can talk, by the way?

Because it's all about conversation.

He has conversations with all these creatures, mainly penguins, but in different places.

He meets other creatures that he has a conversation with, but it's mainly with the penguins.

So it's.

It's comical in places of the conversations he has, so they're all quite different.

So again, putting that into a sequence and into a structure and making it.

Because there's so many penguins around, it's.

It's linking them all together because you'll get a type of penguin that's in one place and that could be the Galapagos, and then the other place it's in, it's in South America or it's in Australia, in the Antipodes.

So it's really interesting keeping that flow of the penguins that they meet or he meets in sequence, if you like.

So it's.

It's quite interesting that way.

So it's been fun because they're in.

Such different places as well.

Do you go into the.

The difference in the environment as well?

Yes, there's different temperatures involved and.

And also what people don't.

Or what some people don't realize is that you'll find them in forests.

And you think, yeah, exactly.

And there's, there's the.

The nice thing about this book, he has a mission in that he's got to find the little blue fairy.

So that little blue fairy actually exists in the Antipodes, and it's actually the smallest of all the penguins.

So I have a journey of him where he sees the tallest.

At the very first one he sees and it ends.

And spoiler alert, it ends where he finds the little blue fairy and the.

And it's funny because that reason for the book or the.

The journey didn't come straight away.

It just happened to be that I put the.

The letters together and I thought, it's from fairyland.

We've got a fairy penguin.

And that's how it all came about.

But yes, it is difficult because there are groups of penguins that are scattered all over the place, which is why I didn't do it in those groups, because he'd be whizzing off all over the place in the southern hemisphere.

So I've done it in.

He goes to those places with the magic he's been given to get to them easily.

So that's how it all kind of works out.

Is it.

When is it published?

It is going to be published at the end of April on International Penguin Day.

So I have.

Yes.

So it's going to be published then, in terms of the book, the paper version at.

From my publishers there.

So that's why I've set myself quite a challenge, quite a challenge to complete it by then.

But I feel I can do it.

So illustrate as well as.

As write in verse.

Where do you get your inspiration?

Obviously, with the penguins, it's.

It's quite.

You have something to work with, if you like.

But where do you get your inspiration for the illustration?

I think it's the character of the elf and his curiosity that I imagine children have that curiosity.

And I think I was very fortunate that on New Year's Day there was a program on the TV about all 18 penguins.

And I thought, yes.

And that was just, oh, I'm on the right track.

And so that gave me that boost to actually think, yeah, there's something out there.

If the BBC can put a program on, then, yeah.

And I've got a book now that they can relate to that they've seen on the tv.

So it's true.

But my inspiration comes from, I don't know, perhaps my sense of humor, perhaps the fact that I want people to realize that there are 18 different types of penguins in beautiful parts of the world.

So they're not only understanding that there are 18 sorts of different types, but they are in different parts of the world.

So in one of the places they meet giants and dragons.

And those giants are tortoise, and the dragons are the.

The huge lizards that you get in that particular part.

So they.

That's where I get my inspiration of things I didn't know that I think other people might be excited about.

And the fun of the story around it, I think, and captures all those things that they can, if they want, they.

They can go and find out about it.

But the other thing, I saw Steve Backshaw recently on a talk that he did, and there were more children in the audience than there were adults.

And These ranged from 6 years old to, you know, 12, whatever.

And I was so surprised that they knew so much about the animals and the mammals he was talking about, like the orcas and the sharks and things like that.

And I thought, I feel that I've got something that they would know more about by.

By reading this book and enjoy it.

And it can cover different ages, so hopefully.

But, yeah, I think it's just me that I.

I love animals of the world.

That's my passion.

So, yeah, let people know about a bit more about them.

And they're not just black and white.

Oh, it's.

I mean, it's fascinating just to think as well of the concept that we've been fed around England because, you know, they're always in the.

The ice and snow, and that's just not true.

I mean, I remember being in South Africa and they're on the beaches.

And.

And the thing about that, Heather, is it's the only type of penguin there.

It's unique.

It's the African Peng.

Just like you've got the Galapagos penguin.

Its only type is there.

Okay.

You might get some others that go into that vicinity, but those are the endemic species.

But the other thing that, that when you.

When you learn about something and you research about something and then you see something that you know isn't true, whether it be wherever you look on the computer or whatever you see in photographs.

So if you see a polar bear with a penguin, it doesn't happen because neither of those animals are in the same place.

Polar bears are in the north and penguins are in the south.

Like people who think that tigers are in Africa as well.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

So I think where I come from is I'll never lose.

I want to teach people things, so I just put little snippets in and that will generate curiosity.

That's what I like doing.

Challenge.

I.

I love a story that teaches.

I think that's really powerful.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you.

You want to be entertained.

You want to understand.

But it's also.

I find that this is interesting for the person if that's reading it to a younger child that can't read at the moment as.

As fully.

But it's also not boring for the ones that aren too old for that now because there's.

So it's.

It's very hard for me in this book this time to put an age bracket on.

So it's.

Yeah, we'll see.

So you actually work with a publishing house?

I do.

An editor?

Not so much an editor.

No.

But they are just a publisher.

Yeah, they.

My editors, sadly, my.

My husband and my friends that I can throw things at and say, what do you think about this?

My husband's excellent in terms of.

Although he loves me dearly.

If I don't write something that's Proper or that's.

That fits, he'll say.

And he's done that through all my career and supported me that way.

So I know I get a true critique and I get that from close friends as well.

And that's what you want.

So I don't have editor as such, but yes, I do have a publisher and the people around that do the audio in that publishing company and that do the putting all the book together in its final state.

Right.

So do you find that really helpful rather than trying to self publish or did you consider self publishing?

No, I didn't, I didn't.

I've got some friends who have self published in their books.

I didn't want that.

I wanted to be published.

I wanted.

And actually the publishers, I've known him for a long time in different guises and I wanted to support him.

He's a local publisher, so he's based in St.

Albans.

The people who work for him are local.

The printers aren't all that far away that he uses to print the books.

So I wanted to give back as well.

And it sounds corny, but I did, I wanted to do that.

And also it's been hard enough to learn about the subject matter or even the putting into the writing and doing the drawing.

I haven't got time to learn about how to self publish as well because after all that, it doesn't stop when you've had it published and it's out there, you've got to market it, etc.

Etc.

So doing the self publishing, it was too much of a learning curve for me to, to take on.

So that's why I didn't do it.

And yeah, he's a really good publisher.

He's supported me well, helped me tremendously.

So.

And it's nice to have somebody that you know that you can trust that has your back as well.

So that's, that's particularly interesting.

And that's the endless bookcase.

Who is the publisher in St.

Albans?

And you just touched on marketing.

It's a bit of a myth that people who work with a publisher often think that they do all of the marketing as well.

What's your experience?

They don't do all the marketing.

It's.

It's a collaboration.

It's.

It's definitely you.

It's a bit like network networking, you know, it's.

It's gathering all those people together in your sphere that you know that you can hit.

But what the publishers help you is hitting other places and the things that they're involved in, whether they're involved in book festivals and things like that.

So you're doing that.

All their connections that they may have that they think that genre of book would be really suitable and help there.

So they've helped in that way.

They come up with ideas because they've got lots of authors on their books that have different requirements for getting that out.

So you learn.

Or they have got that wealth of experience that they've done with other books that you can tap into.

But it's like anything, if you create something, you can't just go, hand it over.

I can't just hand it over.

You've got to work hard at doing it.

So you've got to know why you're doing it, what you want from it and put in the work to get whatever the reward that you've set yourself to achieve.

So.

But yeah, they, we do work well together.

I'm lucky, I think very lucky.

Two things I want to pick up on.

But let's, let's continue with the marketing.

Do you, do you go to shops and, you know, do author interviews there?

What type of marketing do you do with yourself?

I haven't done that funnily enough, and I think that's my head that stops me from doing that.

Nothing to do with anything else.

I.

Funnily enough, I don't feel confident enough to go and do that sort of thing, even though I could probably do it.

And I have done smaller versions of book readings to a couple of book clubs.

I've.

But you.

There's, there's where you can go.

You.

It.

It all depends.

It's.

It's a very tough market being an author, for one.

It's a very tough market being a children's author.

And if you're not famous, it's even tougher.

So the.

You you have as an author and what you're doing, you have to have.

You have to know why you're doing it and what you want to do to, to, to get it out there.

So I know lots of authors that have done lots of things.

They have gone to bookstores and got them in.

They've gone to libraries and they've gone to independent bookstores as well, which is really.

They're more keen than the larger book sellers.

They have more control.

But again, it depends on what you're writing.

It depends on.

So, for example, zoos around my area, a prime market.

And that's what I will do because the three local zoos around here all have different penguins, which is fantastic.

So in that sense, you look, where does it Fit.

Who's around there, who's being receptive, who's, you know, going to coffee shops that have these.

Or little farm shops that have the stalls that they can do that, or craft shops.

So you can go to lots of different markets, you can do exhibitions.

I collaborated with an author last year, just purely.

She was doing a massive exhibition for her book.

And they said, well, is there anything.

She suggested, if you want anything for children, I've got an author friend that can do that.

So for that we did a treasure hunt that they found parts of the jigsaw for the book that I wrote about at the time.

And I'm doing another one, hopefully where they go and find a Penguin in another book exhibition.

So there are things that you can do.

Have to be quite creative.

You have to have.

You have to think out of the box in terms of your marketing, and you have to do a lot yourself as well to promote it.

But it's collaboration and things like that, and it's.

It's very.

Yeah, it is hard.

It's very hard.

And you'll know it from the authors that you've probably met in the past, but you do what you want to do.

Yeah, yeah.

And you were saying about it being hard work and having to know why you're doing it.

I was listening yesterday to a guy who does.

Because I'm a technical author, he does technical writing and he also does fiction.

And one of the things that he was making the point of, possibly one of the reasons most writers fail is because they still have to do the boring bits.

They have to do the editing, they have to do the.

The layouts and the structure and.

And the things that you don't usually really hear about.

Is that your experience as well?

Yeah, I've.

It isn't my experience in getting fed up at doing that.

I love doing that.

I like the creativity of writing a story, and it's probably because I do the illustration, so I know what I want to draw and what I want to show visually.

And also thinking about if those words were taken away, would they get something from just the pictures and make up a story around it?

So I enjoy doing that.

I like that structure.

That's the way I've always been in my career.

You know, I.

I need structure.

I think it has to be correct, even down to my illustrations.

I can't.

They have to be right.

They have to be that.

If they saw that, they would recognize it for what it actually is.

So I think it's difficult to.

To answer that question because I Don't have that as a problem.

But I've got that because of a character that I am.

And I'm lucky in that sense.

You know, I couldn't.

I couldn't write the book and then get somebody else to do the illustrations because they wouldn't do it how I would want it.

So I'm very lucky.

I've only got myself to fight.

On the bit about knowing why you're doing it.

I think it's really important.

One of the biggest questions in the creative writing group is how do I stay motivated?

And I think that is that why question.

You know, it's about identifying your actual values as well.

So people who get stuck on staying constant and staying interested and finding the time, probably, you know, unconsciously it isn't important enough to them.

Consciously they might think it is, but.

But unconsciously.

Because the way values work at an unconscious level is that we do what we think is most important.

Not doing something that we consciously think is important.

Unconsciously, there's probably a values clash somewhere.

So talking about the why or how did it become that important for you to do.

The why was to see if I could do it.

Something I've never done before in terms of writing a fantasy book.

So it's actually been interesting doing that and then finding a publisher and having somebody who believed in what I'd produced before I'd finished it.

It was just the, I've got something here, do you think it's going to work?

And he said, yes.

So having somebody that believed in you and had faith in you and could support you, I'm pretty lucky that I'm self motivated and I've had to be because I've run a business.

So if I didn't do it, nobody would.

Kind of mentality in those days.

Yes, I had people around me to help me, but the book stops here.

Sorry about the pun.

So I find it very easy to do.

The other thing is I've got no other interferences.

I'm very, very lucky.

I'm retired.

I've got a passion of drawing.

I can put something together.

I wanted to do three books on Bob in the Elf and I've done that.

I can now think, yeah, I've achieved something that I never thought I could do.

And I think it's been a fantastic journey and a massive learning journey for me because it's been in an area that I had no knowledge about.

None whatsoever.

It's just things in my head putting down on a piece of paper and structuring it that way.

So I'm very lucky in that I've got the time.

I put myself under the pressure or not.

If it doesn't happen in a certain time, so be it.

I'm not under the kush with by anybody else.

It's.

It's me and it's something that I enjoy.

I enjoy drawing, I enjoy sharing those pictures because I'm proud of them and I've just put words around it that seem to work some way.

So, yeah, I'm just looking.

And I've got, as I said earlier, I've got a very supportive husband that, you know, I can do what I want.

And he has his hobbies at the time and does what he wants, so it's.

I don't have to worry that I'm head down because there have been times where it has to be head down.

So.

So, yeah, I think I'm.

I think I'm just lucky in that sense that I can do what I want.

And it is.

The answer is.

Is because I can.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the question that kind of follows from that is, can you make a living at it?

I'm sure there's lots of writers want to make a living at their writing.

What's.

What's your thoughts on that?

In my experience, in my genre, Sheila Fairbank can't.

So I don't think I can.

And it's nothing to do with.

I can't do it.

It's.

It's very, very hard, I think, to get a book out there, a children's book out there amongst the wealth that are out there.

It's a very hard market.

I think I'm.

I'm a funny author, I think, really, because I'm not doing it to make a living.

I don't need to, if that's.

If that makes sense.

And I'm not saying that, you know, financially, I mean, I don't need to do it for any other reason apart from I want to do it.

If it's.

I understand the market.

I know it's hard, but there again, Heather, I don't work hard enough at it to complain that it isn't happening.

And it's just because that's what I mean by being a funny author.

I don't.

I'm doing it because I enjoy it.

I'm doing it because I've produced it.

It's.

It's, you know, my hobby.

That's.

That's helping me achieve the things that I have achieved.

So it's.

I think that's what's.

What it's about in terms of what I do.

But I do appreciate those people who go out there, and I've got lots of author friends that have worked hard and it is hard.

So hats off to all those authors out there that have succeed in this very.

It's not just.

But it's, it's a, It's a busy market.

Yeah.

So it's.

Yeah, I find it hard, but there again, I'm just happy that I don't have to rely on it.

So it's obviously something you, as you say you love, you want to do.

Do you believe that's important to have sort of upfront and, and first of all, really, before anything else, in order to, to keep going, if you like?

Yeah.

You've got to have a reason why.

You know, it's, it's.

And everybody's different.

They all have their own reasons why they do it, whether it's from experience or they want to share.

Whether it's creativity.

In my case, I don't want to share.

You know, it's, it's, it's what your beliefs are and the good it can bring from what you produce.

And I think there's only you who can do that to satisfy yourself in the hope that it'll mean something, whatever that subject is.

So, yeah, I think belief and knowing that you have something, it might not be spot on at that moment in time.

It might not be there, but there are a wealth of people around that can help you should you want to take that on board, whether it's having somebody who's another writer in the same genre that can support you that way.

And I've had that, you know, I've put it out to other children's authors to say, what do you think about this?

I'm hitting the spot there because they've got that experience.

So, yeah, you just, you do what you do to make.

It's got to be important to you.

It's got to.

That's your reason why.

Otherwise, you know, it's.

It's why you get out of bed in the morning, whether it's a job, whether it's a hobby, whether it's a mission.

It's.

It's got to be.

It's got to be for you first, I think, because otherwise I'll go and do something else.

So.

Just saying that you put it out to other children's authors.

Do you put it out to any children?

Yes, I have.

I mean, it's been funny.

I've.

And, and they're, you know, the critiques are really interesting and particularly this last book, my niece's children, who are, you know, the eldest is 8 and 6 and 8, I think.

And he was really chuffed that he was nearly as tall as an emperor penguin.

So that's what that child has come away with by the snippets of information.

Because in the.

In the book, I've all also done a table of heights.

Where do you fit?

Bobbin fits here and the Empress up here and the Littles down there.

Where do you fit?

So that's the engagement that I've given them, and that's what I tried out on my.

On those children.

And then another one thought it was really cool, the little bit of the story, and wondered if the penguin had escaped from the zoo.

So.

Because that's the only, you know, initial awareness we have about penguins is.

Is in those wild parks in the zoos and things like that.

So that was quite interesting.

And because I've touched different continents, I've got a dear South Africa, a couple of dear South African friends, and they gave me tales of what happened with them, with the penguins that they've come across, and I've incorporated those.

So it's.

It's been a nice engagement of the different people around me, my friends that have experienced it, but the children.

Yeah, I think I underestimate them because we haven't.

You know, I'm not around children as a person, and so you don't know what they don't know, or you don't know what they like, what they want.

So it's been quite interesting.

Yeah.

Putting them in front of that.

And it's.

It's that.

Yes, you know, it's encouragement to, like we said earlier, carry on doing what we're doing.

You're doing something right, you know, you are.

So therefore, you continue and it makes it worth it.

Books are on Audible, Amazon.

Where else can we.

They're in Waterstones.

They're in my publishers.

So they're in.

It's the great thing about having a publisher as well, going back to your earlier question is they know all the places that it needs to be registered with and any of the things that change there, that take that book out into the world.

So.

So, yes.

Pardon?

What do you mean by registered?

Well, like, if you want an ISBN and things like that.

I don't have to do any of that.

There's several organizations and I should know them, Heather, but I don't.

Can't remember them.

But there are several organizations that your book is listed with that then go out to the different suppliers and Retailers.

And there is a.

It's.

It's like your ISBN number, but there is a listing of books of all the books where.

Yeah, where.

Where people can.

Where they are listed.

And then they go out and they can get them at different shops.

I think the hardest.

The hardest thing for me, it's a children's book, is getting into schools, because it doesn't.

It's a fantasy book.

It doesn't kind of fit in the curriculum.

Yeah, I know a kiddie would love it.

So you kind of just have to.

It is what it is.

It's timing or whatever and you just go with it and you go with the standard markets that are out there.

But as I say, thinking about what your genre is and where it fits in terms of your book, there are organisations, independent organisations, that you can go and say, I've got this.

Are you doing an exhibition?

Or it's linked to this subject that you can go out and collaborate with.

And they're very supportive in that sense because they want to support the independent authors, which is great.

And you just got to find them that meets your criteria.

So would this new book, is this more likely to fit in with a school curriculum?

Well, I've read it to a couple of teachers and they said it's really.

It's really interesting because it's a learning thing.

I've yet to find out because at the moment, my head is still in the writing and production side of it, and I've yet to go and approach that and see and.

And pursue that.

At the moment, Heather, I haven't got the headspace to.

And it's probably wrong.

I should be doing it all, but I can't, you know, And I think that's the thing.

When you are a writer and you're creative, you are creating something, you need to keep that momentum or else you'll lose that.

Yeah.

The impact of that element at the time.

So I feel, going back to structure, I need to do this, this and this.

And once I've got something that is tangible, that I can hold in my hand and take, then I can help promote it in those different places.

I think it.

The difficult.

The most difficult part I find, and I've done it in all my life, it's selling yourself, it's selling you, it's your baby, you know, and it's really hard and you have to be aware that it's not for everybody.

And you get the knock and you get up and you go on to the next thing, so.

And that's not easy to do.

And the older I get, I think, do I really want to do this?

But, you know, you have to.

It's part and parcel.

It's the next chapter after you've finished and had it published, I think.

So is there any sort of final words of wisdom you'd like to say to.

To writers of thinking about perhaps the.

The children's market and illustration as well as writing?

Oh, do it.

Absolutely.

100.

If it's.

If it's something that you have a passion and you want to share it with whomever and you think you can, it has a bearing.

That's one thing.

So that's looking at your audience, children.

If we go back and remember what we were like as kids, you know, you never know what children will embrace at that moment and see it.

They'll see something on the TV and they'll think, oh, that's what that's about.

And you can.

You can read it.

It's.

Yes, it's a big market, but it's.

I think what I found is I've had the massive escapism in writing something that I know nothing about or I didn't know anything about.

And being able to put something with fantasy and children's books, they've got a wealth of imagination and you have got that same imagination.

We've just suppressed it for the past 40 years because were adult.

So it's.

Well, I think.

Anyway, so I think it's.

It's.

Yes, go and do it.

Go and seek out as much support and ask people to help you.

Don't be afraid of it, because if people can help you, they will.

If they don't want to or they can't, then there'll be somebody else you can go and ask, I am sure, because that's what I've done.

It's.

It's actually just having the courage to sit down and write about something, put it out there and see if it's worthy, which is what I did.

So you have somebody who says, yeah, and it isn't just for a financial thing.

Yeah.

You've got something there, then see if it's something that you can.

Like.

You asked how I shown it to children, you know, test it out.

Yeah.

And then that will give you.

I think it gave me the reason why I've got something.

I mean, I've been so lucky that Julia Donaldson has just, at the end of last year, produced a book about one particular Penguin.

Great.

Absolutely.

So if they like that, they'll love mine.

Yeah.

And that's what you're doing.

You you kind of look at what your market is and you think, oh, God, well, they've done a book on your subject.

Mine's not going to be good enough.

Of course it is.

Yeah.

You know, you're dealing with children that will embrace it.

So I think if, if, if they didn't, then you should be happy with what you've done, what you've achieved and where it's ended up.

So, yeah, go for it.

Brilliant.

And congratulations on the two books.

So, yeah, yeah.

It's really weird saying that you're an author and an illustrator, though, because you don't look at yourself in that way.

You've just written something down and drawn some pictures which happen to be quite nice.

But you can.

You kind of.

And you've got to tell yourself that you have done it.

I'm happy to walk away at the end of this book and think, yeah, but I won't.

It's been lovely speaking to you.

I always love speaking to you.

So thank you for today.

It's been a pleasure and you always set my head going.

Heather, thank you.

And for your support as well.

So you do good things.

So thanks for your time.

Thank you.

We'll see you again soon.

Bye.

Bye.

Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to this week's episode.

If you enjoyed it or think it would be valuable to others, please do share.

And if you really enjoyed it, please leave me a review.

It really helps the podcast.

All of the links are in the show notes and I look forward to seeing you next week on the Choosing Happy Podcast.

It.