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On this episode, we talk with our good friend Corey Martin about updates from jail ministry.

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You're listening to the Dudes and Dads podcast, a show dedicated to helping men be better dudes

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and dads by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling.

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And now here are your hosts Joel DeMott and Andy Lehman. Joel, Andy, wait, hello, gotcha.

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You did.

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Hey, uh...

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Hey everybody.

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Hello.

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Andy how are things?.

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Ah, good. The fair is done.

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Oh boy, isn't it though?

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That was a...

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A long week.

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A long week.

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Good. Good week, bit long.

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Andy, um...

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Tell me about your favorite, this year.

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Favorite part of the fair, apart from it being done.

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[laughs]

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Well, my birthday always falls on fair week.

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That's right!

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And so, I always get Nedderman's steak tips.

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Mm-hmm. You got a whole pile too.

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- Yeah, it was good.

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They like, yeah, piled them up today.

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- That's so nice.

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You should have been a little winky-winked and like,

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"Hey, it's my birthday anymore."

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- It's my birthday.

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What's the birthday portion of Nedderman's steak tips?

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- They feel like the same, just more.

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- Not a sponsor, but they could be.

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Nedderman's steak tips.

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- Wow, that's impressive.

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No, one of my other favorite parts though,

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was the fact that, so we were stalled right next to somebody

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that I knew followed the podcast,

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but I didn't believe we've never really met

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- Before, so Jordan and Krista Kerns, welcome.

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- Jordan and Krista.

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So Andy, I have a confession to make about Jordan and Krista.

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- Okay.

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- Here it goes.

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So a few weeks ago, we had their mutual friends of ours

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were house sitting for Jordan and Krista.

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And I actually did contemplate bribing those house sitters

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to gain entry to their home to leave them a nice surprise.

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I didn't do it.

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I felt conflicted about if it was just,

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if it was crossing a barrier or a boundary.

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And so, but I thought I was like, wouldn't it be great

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if I just convinced those, those lovely young,

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young ins to just let me just waltz right into their house.

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I don't know, maybe leave them a jack cardboard cut out

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of myself, like saying welcome home.

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Wouldn't that be exciting in their bathroom or something?

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Yeah, exactly.

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That could be their shower.

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Oh, gosh.

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Just ripped that, ripped that shower curtain back terrifying.

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But what was interesting is cause like we had been,

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like we were right next to them all week in the barn.

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And she saw me at the cafe.

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You wore your dudes and dads swag.

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And she's like, wait, you're, and are you,

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Andy is like podcast?

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And I'm like, yes.

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- People ask me what they just say is,

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are you dudes and dads?

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- Yeah, and that's how she said, yeah.

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And then.

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- That's which is an strange question to answer.

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- Right. And so I'm like, yes.

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- Am I, am I dudes and dads?

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She told me.

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- There's so much more to me, but thank you.

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- She told me that I should have told,

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I should have said something to her earlier about it.

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I'm like, no, like.

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- You should have said, I don't know if you know this,

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but I'm podcast famous.

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I don't mean to brag, but I,

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but anyways, it was nice.

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It was nice to, nice to officially meet you guys.

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So yeah, that's super cool.

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And we always love it.

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Honestly, when people say, hello,

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I had a similar experience a few weeks ago

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out at the baseball field where someone, someone point,

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I was wearing my shirt and someone's like, is that,

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is that you?

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And I was like, well, it's us, but yes, it is.

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It's, I am one of, I am one of the duo, which Andy,

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I know we've said this before.

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I what is super cool is when you find out in very,

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I think organic ways roundabout ways that people in our community are engaging

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with the show. They, they appreciate it. It's been, it's just,

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it's super humbling to just get the opportunity to share life,

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encourage people that are listening both here in our local community and beyond.

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So as you can always, we're not, we're podcast famous,

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but we're not real famous. So just say we're local podcast famous,

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which is not famous at all. Just to be clear,

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Let's just back up and say, but come say hi.

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Always love that.

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That's super, it's super fun.

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Somebody, we did have a, somebody, our friend, John Swanson, uh,

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reach out after last week's show and put some feedback in.

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He gave some, some meaning as only John Swanson can do gave some meaningful

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feedback. And so I might have feedback for his feedback.

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So we're going to listen to that right now.

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Let's see.

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Sheesh guys, I'm out walking, um, listening to your

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podcast about catching up. And I turned 65 this summer and have been in ministry jobs

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most of my life and never figured out a financial plan. And I'm coming to the point of thinking,

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What if, rather than everything we identify as bugs, all of the fear of not measuring

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up and all of the wondering whether we're doing it right and all of those kinds of things,

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what if those are actually just features?

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Those are what life looks like.

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I've just recently been thinking about troubles and thinking about how things can move from

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being acute to chronic to being life. So we love to rush to acute things, not

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acute things, but acute things. So like problems. When somebody has a problem in

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their life, we love to rush to solve it. When it becomes chronic, then we're like,

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"Oh man, are they still talking about that?" And at some point we move to it

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being life. Life is those just wacky things. Life is those odd things. Life is

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whatever friends we have or don't have. I worry sometimes about how much our

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expectations then create our frustrations. And rather than working so hard to

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try to measure up to something, if we reexamined our expectations and realized

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is that, oh, maybe it's okay to be okay.

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So I listened to the two of you

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and Andy you're in the middle of fear

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'cause I've been watching that.

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It's like, yeah, you probably ought to be exhausted.

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Joel, you just switched from one career to another career.

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You probably ought to be exhausted.

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It's not that there's a problem.

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It's that that's what goes along

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with all of the delights of all of those things.

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So, enough preaching.

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It was mostly nice walking with you,

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except for realizing that really, really, thanks.

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Love you guys, bye.

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- Oh, John.

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- John, Dr. John Swanson.

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Yeah, I mean, I think when I first,

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so when we first got the email

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and I listened to that feedback, I was like,

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there was part of me, there was an inside of me,

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that was a little bit of me,

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probably I would say slightly defensive to that maybe. Interesting. A little bit. Well,

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because I got thinking about it, I'm like, sometimes we like, like, we like to be frustrated

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about our circumstance or like whatever's come to us. Like we, like there's a, I don't know,

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we could do a deep dive into the psyche of all of this, but it's just like,

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Can't I don't know.

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Can I be?

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Yeah, can I be frustrated with something?

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Can I?

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Is it OK for me to be frustrated with where I'm at right now?

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Like when I feel like I'm not responding,

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responding the way I ought to be responding.

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John's point is good, though, like I would say, like,

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well, where does that sense of oughtness come from?

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Like, like, oh, you should be doing this or whatever.

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You know, we had mentioned kind of some of the financial,

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the financial stuff that were my wife and I trying to figure out.

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And yeah, I'm I want to be very careful

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I'm not measuring any of that against anybody else at the same time at the same time Andy.

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I would like to retire someday. I would like to not have to

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work for the rest of my life. And so I think John would agree with us. I think John would be like

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certain intentionalities financially are appropriate, but his warning is an appropriate one to say.

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Yeah, like what he is freaking out about this gonna

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right? Gonna add anything to you or the sense of like, why should be doing this?

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In the coaching world, we say all the time, don't shit on yourself. Andy was ready for

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the bleed by side. Yeah. I was quickly going to the bleed button. He was, he was worried,

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but no. Yeah, there, there it is. There. But we thank you, John, for putting in feedback.

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Thanks, John. We love it when you guys put in feedback. So you can either email feedback

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at dudesanddadspodcast or voicemail us at 574-213-8702. We love those voicemail.

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else. And why do we love them? Because we can put them on the show as quality content

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to prove to everybody we have real life bodies there listening to what we're talking about.

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Oh, thanks, John. Right back at you, my friend. By the way, we love you deeply. We're so grateful

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for you. Thank and thank you for that. That was that was really meaningful. It played.

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It played around in my head for a while. Well tonight, Joel, we have a previous guest on

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with us. You know that you know how good a guest has to be to get back on this show. I mean

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narrow is the way and few be that find it Andy. But but welcome back Corey to the show. Hi Corey.

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Hello. Oh gosh. And not only that, not only is Corey with us, he's here with us in person.

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Last time we made him sit in his shed, it was cold out and he had a heater on and

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he was wearing flannel. I mean, he looked very in his beard was his beard was way longer.

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- Yeah.

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- Gosh.

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Corey, let's just quickly,

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I think first thing's first, most important things first.

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What's the beard journey been like?

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Where are you at in your,

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how does the beard work for you?

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Do you grow out so long?

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Do a hard cut back and then start back at square one?

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Or are you, is there a happy medium

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that you're trying to find somewhere?

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- I start every year in October.

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- Okay.

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- And I shave it in May.

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- Okay.

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- Gotcha.

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- So it's a winter summer thing.

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- Gotcha. - Okay.

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- Now, can I also ask,

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'cause is this also the result of any negotiation whatsoever

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with your wife?

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- The summer months are when we work

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on rebuilding our marriage.

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(both laughing)

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From the winter months.

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She's not a huge fan.

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- Understood.

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Understood, our wives have mixed,

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sort of mixed feelings.

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- Mine likes my beard, but not when it's like super bushy,

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but can she can see it from the back?

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Like if she's walking behind me and she sees the beard,

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If your beard has a profile, that's why she draws the line.

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Yeah. So she does.

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She has a certain range.

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Right. But when I shave it off completely, then it's no, like that's not a good thing.

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Well, for my wife, the color, I think, as much as anything,

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because we can be out and about and people will think I'm her dad.

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Guys, literally spit the water. Oh, gosh.

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Well, she doesn't find it as humorous as Joel does.

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No, because that's creepy. I get it. I understand.

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Shen, who was that elderly man walking with you?

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The other. Oh, wow. No, that's well, that's funny.

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OK, so yeah, that's that's a general the general take on on the beard.

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So I've got a trim coming up here on on Tuesday, so that'll be good.

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But yeah, my wife's same deal.

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I think we've talked about this before. It's there's.

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She she she generally kind of is kind of like, I don't know, whatever.

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But then when I go and shave it off, she has like immediate remorse,

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like immediate remorse about it.

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And I'm like, OK, you're only giving fire to every stereotypical

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male-female conversation here about lack of lack of clear boundary

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and direction and what you want.

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So anyway, so I think there's some happy medium that we're all trying to find

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in general, right? I think so. Absolutely. Great.

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Corey. OK. So here's the deal.

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We, I think last time, last time we talked, we got kind of the overview and we'll link

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obviously show.

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Yeah, we'll link to the other episode, the previous episode, because we kind of got the

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the outline of jail ministry, like what you're, what you're involved in here in

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Elkhart County. I think it's helpful again, just for, for, for those that are new to the

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crew, general outline of what you do, what the ministry is about, and then I think the

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update stuff about kind of new adventures in jail ministry, if I can call it that.

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Sure.

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Well, I've been at the jail for about 10 years now.

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And one of the things you learn quickly in this type of ministry is when you're in the

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jail, I mean, maybe you're doing a Bible study or church service. Those are all good.

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But when people leave the jail and they have no family, no friends, no place to live, no

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transportation, a lot of kids, maybe with different people, drug addictions, trauma.

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Life is just really hard. And there's no amount of Bible memorization that will fix all of those

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problems. So you leave the jail and that your life just hits you as soon as you walk through those

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doors and you're, you know, all the things that happened inside as good as they were,

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they stay on the inside because now you're just trying to figure out how to get back

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and find someplace to live that evening. Yeah.

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Somewhat of a generalization, that's mostly true for everybody who, you know, most people who

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leave incarceration, that's what they're, that's what they're walking out into.

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Yep. And all the bigger reason for which, which outlines the challenge of them not going back

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into that same thing, when, because you're there, when you are sort of resource depleted at that

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point, both financially and relationally, then like, what are you going to go to to make your way,

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make your way in the world? Probably what you knew or what is familiar to you would be my guess.

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That's right. Where else are you going to go? Yeah. Right. The people who are incarcerated

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hear this all the time. You can't go back to the same people. You can't go back to the same places

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and you can't do the same things. Those are easy things to say. And then in the next breath, we

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also say, "But don't come to my places and don't do my things and you're not going to be a part of

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my people." Right. So, I mean, if you and I had to walk out of this room and never go back to people

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that we knew or the places where we were raised or the things that we did, I mean, that'd be a

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a difficult thing to do. And a lot of it also is just, again, a generalization, but a lot of

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people who are in the Elkhart County Jail have been through a lot of trauma and abuse that they've

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just not had the opportunity to work through. And so you can't expect all of that trauma to be

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undone in a six-month program or in a Bible study inside the Elkhart County Jail. So I think what

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we realized is, oh, the good news has to be more than just doing a Bible study in the jail.

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The good news has to be more than just when I die, I get to go to heaven.

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We think that people should be able to experience the kingdom of God before they die.

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Dangerous ideas. Dangerous ideas.

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So that's kind of our goal. Everybody knows the verse in James.

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Can that faith without works? Can that type of faith save you?

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But the type of faith he's talking about is somebody who sees somebody who's naked and

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hungry and says, "Go, be well and be fed." And then he says, "But they don't do anything to

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take care of their body." And so we're really trying to figure out how can we focus, and really,

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the Gospels, the whole New Testament is so much more focused on bringing the kingdom of God to earth

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than us going to heaven when we die. And so we're always trying to figure out what can we do

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to take care not just of people's souls, but also their bodies so they can experience the

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kingdom of God here on earth. A lot of us are going to live for a few more years at least.

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The good news is not you will have to experience hell on earth for the next 30 years until you

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die and then you can go to heaven. Yeah. Yeah. We're just holding on around here. Just hold on

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for our last breath and then the good part starts. Yeah. So,

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So in jail ministry specifically, like what kind of...

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What is the on the ground experience as far as your kind of your ministry expressions?

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The things that you guys have been doing sort of historically, because I think you outlined

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a few of those, but like what does Elkirk County jail ministry look like past and present?

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Well, the jail ministry has been around for maybe 40 years and 45 years.

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I started a while ago, some churches in Goshen got together, formed a non-profit organization

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and put a chaplain in the jail in downtown Goshen when it was there.

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And so, you know, for a lot of years, it was Mike Kupke was a chaplain back then.

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He was a chaplain for the first 38 years of the jail ministry.

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Wow.

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A fantastic guy.

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And there were maybe a dozen assistant chaplains who would go in, me with inmates.

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distribute Bibles and literature, help with church services. So today, things look a little bit

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different. And I would divide our ministry up into three different areas. We do what you think of,

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what most churches would think of as ministry proper. So the Bible studies, the church services,

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the discipleship, baptisms, all of those things. But then we also do tattoo removal. So we offer

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free tattoo removal inside the jail and outside the jail. So anybody who's listening to this,

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if you live in Elkart County, you can get your tattoos removed at Vista Community Health Center.

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Okay. It's for a suggested $10 donation. Yeah.

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And then we also do reentry housing. So we have six homes that we own in the north side of Goshen

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and we have either two single women or two single men living in a home. At any given time, we have

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a guy named Don French, who's our housing coach and Chris Klazinski who helps down with our,

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the men and women who live in our homes, because we've seen this to be true. If you don't have a

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stable place to live, your life will never be stable. It all starts with that. Education will

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never be stable, healthcare will never be stable, employment will never be stable,

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church attendance will never be stable, your family won't be stable. Now, we also learn it's not a

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guarantee of stability, but if you're always moving every three months, you're fearful of eviction,

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your rent is too high, you can't afford it or you're forced to live someplace.

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You know, it's hard to complete the drug court program if you're sentenced to drug court,

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if you're living in a drug house. Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah. It's a real barrier.

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It's a barrier.

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Real barrier.

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Right. But that's the only place you have to go.

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Yeah.

328
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Mm-hmm.

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That's where you're gonna go.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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And so, I think everything that we do, housing, tattoo removal, all the stuff inside is really,

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we really do, we really are kind of honing in this idea of we want to provide people with a

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different kind of community that they feel like they belong to. And we would call it the Kingdom

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of God. So the Bible studies are a way to help people experience that. Tattoo removal is a way

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to help people experience that. Housing is a way to help people experience that. As we're looking

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into the future, I think what we keep talking about, and let me back up, here's how we kind of

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of operate with the jail ministry.

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We bought a tattoo removal machine, laser,

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and then we didn't know what we were gonna do with it.

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So we were like, well, now we need to learn how to use it

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and figure out where we're gonna put it

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and figure out a process for it all.

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We bought our first house before we had any idea

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who was gonna live in it.

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We had no model for it.

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We had no processes or procedures in place for it.

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But the next thing I think we're gonna do

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is we wanna open up some type of a community center

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in Elkhart County.

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Are you guys familiar with the Elkhart County clubhouse?

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Yes.

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It is a fantastic organization in Elkhart County.

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There's one in, it started in Goshen.

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The one I know about is in Goshen.

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Right.

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Which Meyer heads that.

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And there's one in Elkhart now.

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Okay.

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So that is a support community for people with mental illness.

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It's open five days a week, eight to five.

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It's a place for people who have any level of mental illness

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can go and have a purposeful day.

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And feel like they belong, they're supported.

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There's a reason for them to be there.

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They're needed.

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And we think there's enough people who are formally incarcerated have unique enough hurdles

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and obstacles that we want to start some type of a community center as a support community

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for people who have been formally incarcerated.

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So just like tattoo removal and housing, we don't know how it's going to work or where

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it's going to be, but we've already hired the executive director to run it once it does

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start.

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That's awesome.

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Right now she's helping down with housing.

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This is totally in line with your business model.

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I guess seeing is just how totally how you guys operate.

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- Well, if we went in until we had it all figured out,

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we still wouldn't be doing anything.

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- See, now I just wanna hit the pause button here

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because I think from the seat that I've been in,

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executive pastor role and now CEO for another

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non-for-profit organization,

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I know and I can almost hear the board numbers

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in the background saying,

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who are usually business-minded people or who usually the kind of people,

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you know, I have a finance committee that's comprised of a couple CPAs and a business

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analyst for a large Fortune 500 company. And they tend to be risk averse people,

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responsibly risk averse people, but they tend to be like, they're going to pump the brakes on

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things and make sure. And I value that. I value that insight. I value that caution.

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in faith based non for profits specifically, I have really seen that sort of demeanor often

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in place. I don't want to necessarily, and maybe you can correct me, I don't always want to chalk it

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up to fear per se, but there is maybe a sense of like, man, you know, we want to be stewards with

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these resources and we want to make sure that we don't have egg on our face at any point in any

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wrong term, all eyes dotted and T's crossed before we launch something, before we go into

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something. And yet the story that you have told, there have been very intentional things.

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And you guys as an organization, I know that you have all the things in place, but there's

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been, I have sensed a little bit less of a version to risk. So that's just my outside

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perspective. Yes, no, am I right or?

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- May, I think it can be fear, but I think another part of it is, we set up these unreasonable

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definitions of what success looks like and what expectation is.

400
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:15,760
- Thank you, Dr. John Swanson.

401
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Yes.

402
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- I was disappointed because I thought I was going to be Ron Swanson.

403
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- Oh, yeah.

404
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- But when he said it, I'll get over it.

405
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- Yeah.

406
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And so, John, you know what?

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John Swanson should have his own pair of minutes of success.

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The John Swanson pair of minutes of success.

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I'd put that up on my wall.

410
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Absolutely.

411
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But yeah, so our, yeah, expectations of what success looks like.

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Yeah.

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And so we, we're very intentional.

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We think that our only obligation at the ministry is to provide people with

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opportunities and the resources for spiritual development, professional

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development and personal development.

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And we, we don't measure our success based on whether people take advantage

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of those or not, because we just can't control that.

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But if our only responsibility is to provide those opportunities for people,

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it feels a little bit less like a risk. That's how I look at it.

421
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:16,160
Right. Yeah. Because now we're going to put all of this effort and time and money into this thing,

422
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not to change Joel's life or to fix Joel, but in order to provide him every opportunity he needs

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to grow in the ways that he wants to grow. So it's really an elevation. What I hear you saying

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is it's an elevation of that person's individual accountability, the ability for them to hold

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themselves accountable to something better, to something greater.

426
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Yeah, well, I think once they experience a community that's supportive and is really willing

427
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and excited to invest in them with no strings attached.

428
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When people catch that, watch out. Yeah. Really. And if they don't, we don't have to,

429
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have to chalk that up as a loss or a failure or we did something wrong.

430
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,560
There's a balance between we're always trying to figure out how we can do things better.

431
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,520
But we just never want to judge ourselves based on whether or not Andy decided to

432
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you know, take advantage of the financial planning classes that we offer or whatever it might be.

433
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,040
Or he relapsed while he was in our home. Right. Right. You know, I don't know how long it takes to

434
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undo possibly 20 or 30 years, you know, of living life a certain way. Right. Right. And that's,

435
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:41,200
you know, that's a, that's a great point. I was having a conversation with, with a,

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with someone really close to me and not too long ago about, we were talking about an individual who

437
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we mutual, mutual friend, person we both knew and talking about some, just some decisions that

438
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they had made that were really, I mean, it's really unfortunate. Not, we would see as not wise

439
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,200
decisions, but this, this person, you know, had lived a fair amount of life and,

440
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:09,280
and my, my friend said to me, he's like, he's like, I just, I'm just wondering like,

441
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you know, can this be turned around? Can this, can this change? And I said, well, first of all,

442
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I mean, God can do anything, right?

443
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,360
Like, absolutely, God can do anything.

444
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:26,720
But this person has been living the way that they have been living for decades.

445
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It's not an overnight change.

446
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It's not an overnight change.

447
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,120
They have all the reinforcement in the other direction.

448
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And you just sitting down with them, surprise, surprise, for 30 minutes,

449
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,160
trying to talk some sense into them or trying to offer them an alternative way.

450
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:48,000
I mean, I wish you all the best, but yeah, there's a lot of reinforcement in the other direction.

451
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:54,640
Well, I think we also sometimes conflate, well, something that I think what we're unintentionally

452
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,960
or maybe intentionally trying to do sometimes is to make people's lives look like our lives look,

453
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,560
is if the way we're doing things is the right way to do things.

454
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:08,960
If somebody who's not following the Dave Ramsey Financial Peace University plan,

455
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They're doing things the wrong way. And we know that's the fifth gospel in the Bible.

456
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,080
100%. 100%. Andy, by the way, make sure we get a good sound clip of that because I'd like to

457
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:28,320
take it out of context. Put it out there. But not everybody handles money the same way I do.

458
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:34,560
And I'm just not... Now, in America, there might be a right way to do it. And the kingdom of God,

459
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:39,200
I'm just not sure those two things overlap as nicely as we like for them to look.

460
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,800
So sometimes we spend a lot of money, not a money, we spend a lot of time,

461
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:52,000
I think maybe trying to look, measuring somebody's success based on, you know, the way that we think

462
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:57,440
somebody should manage their money or, you know, whether they should rent or buy.

463
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,920
Some of this rubs me the wrong way because I think sometimes we do equate

464
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:07,520
how somebody manages their money with how spiritual they are.

465
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:16,480
100%. Yeah, it's a very, that's a very, um, it's a very pietist, Protestant problem. You know,

466
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,840
I didn't, for years and years, I never really thought about it. This phrase of the Protestant

467
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:26,080
work ethic, like that, like that kind of deep into our, you know, our history as a country.

468
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:34,400
And, and what, what that work ethic was always rooted in was I need to work really hard so that

469
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:35,960
that I can demonstrate that I'm saved.

470
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,700
So like my productivity and my salvation were tied together,

471
00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:42,140
strangely tied together.

472
00:28:42,140 --> 00:28:46,440
And I think that there's some there's there's some weird unknown

473
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,980
subconscious hangovers from that within so within our within our life.

474
00:28:50,980 --> 00:28:57,940
At the same time, you would say for four inmates that have that have come out of incarceration,

475
00:28:57,940 --> 00:29:02,560
you would say there are certain things I don't know how, what language are you use?

476
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,160
There's certain things that we hope for for them, certain maybe milestones,

477
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,060
mile markers, things that would be realized for them.

478
00:29:10,060 --> 00:29:11,320
What does that look like?

479
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:18,160
Well, I've come to believe that everybody should be in therapy.

480
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,520
All right.

481
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,220
People who are have been incarcerated.

482
00:29:25,220 --> 00:29:29,880
Again, this is not 100%, but a lot just have experienced

483
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:39,960
an unbelievable amount of trauma. Yeah. And one of my hopes for them is that they, so this is

484
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,960
the jail ministry offers every single person in the Elkhart County Jail, everybody who lives in

485
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:52,200
our home, everybody who gets out of jail, we tell them, if you find a therapist, it could be a family

486
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,680
therapist, a marriage therapist, personal, it could be about anger or addictions, you find one

487
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,800
that you like and go to in the jail ministry will pay for every session for however long you need

488
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:08,360
to go for however many sessions you need to go. Wow. That's awesome. Wow. We believe it's so strongly.

489
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:14,040
Wow. Okay. That people have so much stuff that they have to work through. Yeah. And

490
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:23,480
we want people, we want people to be the best versions of themselves. And I think the only way

491
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:31,160
to get to that point is you have to work through a lot of this stuff that you have either pushed down

492
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:38,440
or dealt with inappropriately or you haven't dealt with at all. One of my good friends who I go

493
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:45,400
church with has a t-shirt that says, "People need Jesus." And a therapist. We're really strong

494
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,440
believers in that. And so I would hope, I mean, I think, you know, reconciling with parents,

495
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:56,840
reconciling with children, reconciling with spouses. You can't do that unless you are

496
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:04,360
healed and whole yourself. I think it all starts with that. But I think that would be my hope for

497
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:11,360
people is that they're able to work through forgiveness issues, anger issues, and that they

498
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,000
would be able to start. Because I think that's what, I think that's part of what the good news is.

499
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:21,120
it's not just we get to die and go to heaven. It's through the death and resurrection of Jesus.

500
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:28,480
He is reconciling the entire world, all of the relationships. There's a great book. It's called

501
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,560
The Very Good Gospel by Lisa Sharon Harper. We did it in Book Club one time in the jail.

502
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:38,320
And she said, one of the things that isn't quite picked up in English translations of the Hebrew

503
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:44,720
Bible and Genesis is when God declared it as very good, it's implied that the relationship

504
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:51,520
between those things are also very good. So the relationships between animals and the earth,

505
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:56,960
and humans and animals, and men and women, all these things, the relationship is good,

506
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,880
the connection is good, and sin broke all of those things. And so part of the restoration and

507
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:10,320
the reconciliation and the healing that the Holy Spirit is doing is to make all those relationships

508
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:19,280
Right. It's early Genesis. And this is the moment where I do a random Hebrew callback

509
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:25,600
from years ago in graduate school. But I mean, some of the strongest words, it's this "tov ma'od,"

510
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:33,520
which is this good, very good thing. Some of the strongest words, I would agree. The way it's

511
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,360
structured in the Bible, it just pops off the page to you. That there is something very, very

512
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,760
significant relationally about what's being what's being described there. And that's

513
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:48,240
well, that's that's your hey bonus Bible lesson today on the on the podcast guys,

514
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:54,640
we're hitting all of the bullet points and more so good. So yeah, Cory, I'm with you. And I think

515
00:32:54,640 --> 00:33:01,360
that I mean, it just makes a ton of sense. I am I am also blown away by the degree and the

516
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,360
length that you guys will take to make sure like to make sure and support that that's happening

517
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,360
That's amazing to me.

518
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,240
Well, I think what you said earlier is key there.

519
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:15,280
Like you're not measuring your success by how many people completed your program or whatever.

520
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:20,720
It's more of our successes. We felt the need to do this thing and we did it.

521
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:21,120
Yeah.

522
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,800
Like there's not a financial thing. There's not a number thing to it.

523
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:30,720
It's just we did it. We followed through with, we felt God calling us to do that success.

524
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,240
And it's the right thing to do regardless of whether or not people take advantage of it.

525
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,680
Yeah. Yeah.

526
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,600
So it's the right thing to do, even though so-and-so may have relapsed in one of our homes.

527
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:40,480
Right.

528
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:45,360
Or tattoo removal is the right thing to do. Even if somebody goes off to prison,

529
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,360
relapses, gets more tattoos and then comes back. It was still the right thing to do.

530
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:56,400
Yeah. And we've sort of, you've mentioned the tattoo thing and I wonder, just for specificity's

531
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,360
sake, because some people might wonder, it's like, what's the deal with removing tattoos?

532
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:12,400
the gist here and maybe there's more is that their tattoos can be a barrier.

533
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,400
So one of them can be a barrier to employment.

534
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:16,400
Yeah.

535
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,900
And then there are other reasons maybe goes beyond that.

536
00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:22,600
What is the general, for the general person going in for tattoo removal, what are their

537
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,240
reasons, what are they hoping to accomplish?

538
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:25,240
Yeah.

539
00:34:25,240 --> 00:34:29,360
Tattoos are becoming more acceptable.

540
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,120
Not the kind of tattoos that we're removing.

541
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,120
Yeah, yeah.

542
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:32,960
Yeah.

543
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:33,780
Still not acceptable.

544
00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:34,620
It's still not acceptable.

545
00:34:34,620 --> 00:34:35,460
No.

546
00:34:35,460 --> 00:34:37,800
People come in for all sorts of reasons.

547
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,800
They have gang tattoos, dirty white boy tattoos

548
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,620
somewhere on their body and they wanna get out of the gang.

549
00:34:45,620 --> 00:34:48,560
And it's really hard to get out of an organization

550
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:53,560
if you're tagged with their logo or a symbol

551
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:54,920
somewhere on your body.

552
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,080
So they wanna, it's a step they're taking

553
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,820
to remove themselves from that lifestyle.

554
00:34:59,820 --> 00:35:01,400
Or it's racist tattoos.

555
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:02,960
One of the first people we ever treated,

556
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,740
his whole back was covered in a swastika.

557
00:35:05,740 --> 00:35:08,200
And his grandchild was biracial.

558
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:09,040
- Oh, wow.

559
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,320
- And so of course, you don't want your biracial granddaughter

560
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,560
growing up with the grandpa who has a swastika on his back.

561
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:15,400
- Right. - They're in a swastika.

562
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:16,240
- Yes.

563
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:18,200
- Or they're embarrassed because when they get out,

564
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,440
their kids don't want them to go to their school events

565
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,480
because their tattoos are all over their face.

566
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,920
Or just, it's triggering and traumatic for them to see,

567
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,360
you know, something on their face that they did

568
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,480
during the worst lowest point of their life.

569
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,080
It's hard to move forward in life

570
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,560
when the worst parts of your past are tattooed

571
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,000
all over your face.

572
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,080
And so it's gang stuff.

573
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,640
We just wanna, we're tired of this life.

574
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,480
We don't want that to be a part of who we are.

575
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,360
We don't people to judge us when they look at us.

576
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:50,560
Part of it is employment.

577
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,840
You can get a job pretty much with any type of tattoo,

578
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,680
but the types of jobs that are gonna be open to you

579
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,440
are gonna be fairly limiting.

580
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,400
I mean, if you I'm just saying, if you have the F word tattooed up your neck,

581
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,000
near neck, I'm just going to assume that maybe not as many doors would be open for

582
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,440
you. Andy.

583
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,760
I have lots of tattoos.

584
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:17,160
But I will tell you, people who have those really kind of harsh tattoos are

585
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:18,840
some of the nicest people you'll ever meet.

586
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,640
I'm sure we did a video for our banquet this year and one of the guys is just

587
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,240
covered in tattoos and his admonition or his challenge to people in

588
00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:31,520
video is if you see somebody like me on the street, come up and talk to me because it

589
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,200
may not, I may not be what you think. Yeah. Yeah.

590
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:40,040
But, you know, it's hard to get past that initial. Right.

591
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:45,400
You're going to make assumptions about sure. Yeah. And, and, you know, I think from, again,

592
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,680
from an employer's perspective, employers like, man, I had a really great interview with

593
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:54,240
them or had a great experience, but they're going to be interfacing with customers and

594
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:55,560
and things like that.

595
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,640
And like a number of things just realistically

596
00:36:58,640 --> 00:36:59,840
go through your brain.

597
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:04,480
So it is a super, I mean, it's one of the most practical,

598
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,280
you want to talk about practical ministry

599
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,280
and like really making a new avenues available to a person

600
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,520
or re-available to a person.

601
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,440
I think that's the, just it's super cool.

602
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,680
And the stories that have come out of it, I think,

603
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,200
I've heard some of them, but they're pretty amazing.

604
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:24,040
- It's fantastic.

605
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,920
So Holly Young does our tattoo removal for us.

606
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:34,280
And so when we're in tattoo removal, it's just the two of us and whoever is getting tattoo removed.

607
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,160
So they're out of the ward. You know, it's kind of they can let their guard down.

608
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,280
We have, again, it's not about the tattoo removal. That's a good thing in and of itself.

609
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:49,160
But what it really is, it gives us an opportunity to have just a real conversation with somebody

610
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:55,480
where they can talk freely. They don't have to be guarded with what they're sharing with us.

611
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,680
They're out of the war. They're not with 40 other guys or 40 other women,

612
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,080
and it's just a time for them to relax a little bit.

613
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:02,840
Yeah, that's really amazing.

614
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:09,720
The manufacture of our laser comes out twice a year to realign the laser and kind of do some

615
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:14,520
maintenance and upkeep on the machine. They always count the pulses that we do.

616
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:18,120
This laser pulses 10 times per second.

617
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:23,360
And when the laser hits the ink, the tattoo, the ink absorbs that light energy

618
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,000
and the top layer of ink vaporizes kind of underneath your skin with a loud pop.

619
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:28,100
So it sounds like a taser.

620
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:30,940
10 pops, loud pops every, you know, 10 per second.

621
00:38:30,940 --> 00:38:32,900
It's really painful.

622
00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:38,900
But the the manufacturer, the machine said, on average, most people

623
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:42,040
who are doing tattoo removal, they have 500,000 pulses a year.

624
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,920
You're doing pretty good if you have 500,000.

625
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,200
And we're up over a million a year.

626
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:48,040
Oh, wow.

627
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,640
On average, we're doing a lot of tattoo removal procedures.

628
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:53,480
That's amazing.

629
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:54,160
That's awesome.

630
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:54,960
That's super cool.

631
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:55,880
And that's just in the jail.

632
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,200
That doesn't count the machine at Vista.

633
00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:59,800
So.

634
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,760
So as you guys are kind of pressing forward with this,

635
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,080
with this community center idea.

636
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:12,480
One of the things that struck, I guess,

637
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:13,800
that's in the back of my mind,

638
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:19,640
because we're in talking about all the positive things. And I've, I wonder, I just, I wonder what the,

639
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:27,640
what the experience is like for you and your, and your staff. Because, because not every story is

640
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,600
a happy, is a happy ending. And not everybody, I know with other recovery ministries that I'm,

641
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:39,400
that I'm, I have connections with in the recidivism rate is, especially when it's addiction related,

642
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,320
The recidivism rate is super, super high. Some people have to go through a program

643
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:51,480
two, three times before they kind of make it out and stay out. And just in clear terms,

644
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,560
they have to stay alive long enough to also be able to do that.

645
00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:03,160
What is your guys'... I guess like, because I've heard you talk about...

646
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:08,440
And maybe that makes sense in this way. When you talk about success, when you talk about what

647
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,200
what the ministry's kind of where you get,

648
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,140
where the hope is in that ministry.

649
00:40:15,140 --> 00:40:21,780
How do you guys process together when it doesn't go the way

650
00:40:21,780 --> 00:40:25,720
that you had hoped and that you had prayed for?

651
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:27,920
And then, 'cause the one thing about this ministry

652
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,520
and there's a ton of prayer behind it.

653
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,480
There's a ton of very intentional spiritual focus

654
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,720
on what you all are doing.

655
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:42,520
Some of my favorite people, some of my favorite faith leaders in this community are part of

656
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:43,960
the jail, the jail ministry.

657
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:50,400
And so how do you guys process that part of it together or, and maybe even individually?

658
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:51,400
Yeah.

659
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:59,600
Well, first part of it is setting up correct expectations.

660
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,640
So I'm always surprised the recidivism rate isn't 100%.

661
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:03,640
Yeah.

662
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:04,640
I don't understand.

663
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,880
the system, I don't understand anybody can make it out.

664
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:13,120
Yeah. Right. So I'm encouraged. I mean, so it takes one person

665
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,360
from the SD to stay out and do well. I get excited about that.

666
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:25,440
Yeah. But the other thing is once you kind of drop this pretense that we actually have the power

667
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:33,760
to change somebody's life. And if I only used strong enough arguments, if I only did, if I only

668
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:39,280
spent one more hour with them or did one more Bible study with them or, you know, once we

669
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:47,840
realize we just have so little power over what somebody chooses to do and we trust that God

670
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:54,320
is ultimately in control, then nothing that we do, we can have the confidence that nothing we do

671
00:41:54,320 --> 00:42:00,160
has ever really wasted. I think we're trying to be okay with the fact that some seeds that are planted

672
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:05,680
today might sprout 40 years down the road and I will not be around to see them.

673
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:12,960
And that's okay. You just have to trust that what you're doing now is planting seeds.

674
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:18,160
It's planting seeds and it's the right thing to do and it's the good thing to do even if I don't

675
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:24,160
see any of the fruits or if I don't see any behavioral changes I have to trust

676
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:30,720
that God is still working in that person's life. But burnout and frustration,

677
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:39,600
it's only a matter of time if you think, okay, my job is not just to provide housing, but I need

678
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:45,760
to make sure this person does not relapse. And I need to make sure this person says the right prayer

679
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:54,240
before he or she dies or it's on me. We may not always think that explicitly by thing

680
00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:55,240
Yeah, but we kind of do.

681
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:56,240
Yeah, kind of do.

682
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:59,520
I think we just have an inflated sense of how important we are.

683
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:00,520
Yeah.

684
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:05,040
And we forget that God's working by the high in the scenes.

685
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,280
God loves Joel as much as anybody else does.

686
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:14,520
And the other thing is, God may be working on something inside Joel that I don't even

687
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:15,520
know about.

688
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:20,040
In the meantime, I'm so focused on this behavior over here of Joel's that I think is the most

689
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:21,040
important thing.

690
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,800
so frustrated because Joel won't stop doing this thing.

691
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,400
And meanwhile, God is focused on something totally different

692
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:28,680
that I'm not even aware of.

693
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:36,000
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The I think, you know, years ago, probably the first,

694
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:37,720
oh, my first encounter with it.

695
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:41,000
You know, Dallas Willard always, always talked about, you know,

696
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:45,320
behave, the kind of the myth of behavior modification and what he called

697
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,040
the gospel of sin management. Yeah.

698
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,120
And I think that it's all always like

699
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:55,520
there's this especially within our kind of our bigger evangelical tent.

700
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,640
There, you know, there, there is this myth, I'll call it a myth.

701
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:00,680
Yeah.

702
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:06,640
That that really what that really what the gospel is about is

703
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,520
is just kind of us.

704
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,760
Managing bad behavior, like managing bad behavior,

705
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:20,400
doing more better, more better behavior, unless not better behavior to put it

706
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:26,240
syntactically in a completely terrible way. But in that sense, that's essentially what

707
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:31,920
we're hoping for. Like that's the goal. And this real focus on behaviorism,

708
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,360
it trickles all the way down. You can see it even within, you know, how,

709
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:40,160
in boy, without this, I mean, I'm not even sure if we'd have content for a show. Like,

710
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:47,600
how parents, like even in parenting, like, if I just get my kid to behave xyzy way,

711
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:53,120
I mean, we've all had that thought. Like, then I would, number one, I would be affirmed in my

712
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:57,840
Christian parenting, which is the most important thing, most important thing, so that when we get

713
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:02,240
together with friends, we can talk about, you know, like, how great I'm doing at this.

714
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:09,280
We just have a list of behaviors that we're trying to suppress and a list of behaviors that

715
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,700
that we're trying to elevate. And then if that's the case, then those are kind of our

716
00:45:12,700 --> 00:45:15,340
gatekeepers and our, you know, how we're measuring.

717
00:45:15,340 --> 00:45:21,080
Yeah. I think it's hard. Once you start measuring your success based on other people's behavior,

718
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:26,680
it's impossible not to start manipulating somebody to get the behaviors you want.

719
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,360
No, there you go. Okay. That'll preach.

720
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,720
That's my next sermon for Joel.

721
00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:35,640
No, I don't know if that's true or not, but it seems like that's one of the reasons we

722
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,720
'Cause I can manipulate, you know,

723
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:42,360
some by any specific way to get a specific behavior

724
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,360
that I could, you know, tout at our banquet.

725
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:46,520
- Yeah.

726
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,000
- To say, see, this is working.

727
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,200
Here's, you know, this person saved up

728
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:52,360
for an emergency fund.

729
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,200
- Yeah.

730
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,760
Ooh, another Dave Ramsey poke.

731
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,160
(laughing)

732
00:45:58,160 --> 00:45:59,000
Ding, ding.

733
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,000
We should have like a voice over like,

734
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,840
"Take that, Dave Ramsey."

735
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:10,920
Bing. Yeah. The, well, and my goodness, let's just be,

736
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:15,920
let's just be really clear. Uh, I'm going to run off the emergency fund real quick.

737
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,520
Anyway, just to say the vast majority of Americans that have never been

738
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:23,760
incarcerated are not held to those standards. Right. You know, that's true.

739
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:28,720
Like we, yeah. And I think the, uh,

740
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:39,920
There is this tension and I know that I, and again, I know that I have subscribed to these things when

741
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:48,080
I'm probably under a particular stress or just want to see results. I want to see results and know that we're making headway.

742
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,240
But that's so much of the work that we do.

743
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:56,080
Number one, the work that we do as followers of Jesus is unseen work.

744
00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:00,720
And that's why it looks absolutely, I mean, if you're going to take worldly standards to that, it looks absolutely bizarre and

745
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:07,360
nonsensical and foolish at times. And I can just hear, I mean, a CEO of a Fortune 500 company,

746
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:12,560
listening to you, what you guys are doing and being like, you know, like, could look at that

747
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,640
sideways because it's like, no, like, how can you improve anything with you if you're not

748
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:27,680
measuring, you know, X, XYZ. But at the same time, you're working, you're doing the work of souls,

749
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,280
of care for souls.

750
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:34,080
That's a completely different measurement than any worldly measure.

751
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:35,440
If you want to call it that.

752
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:36,240
Yeah.

753
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:42,400
And it's this messy work that feels a little bit like nailing gel to the wall at a time.

754
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,680
Tell me if this sticks with you, Corey.

755
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:51,760
I'm wondering, so many times, I've heard people much wiser than me basically say,

756
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:58,880
are the people that I'm walking alongside, are they moving toward Jesus or are they moving away

757
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:04,720
from Him? And that is the barometer by which I want to operate, I want to run my organization,

758
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:10,400
I want to run my own life and how I'm discipling. Would you kind of resonate with that?

759
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:18,240
I think so. I would say are the people who we have a relationship with exhibiting more fruits of

760
00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:24,160
the Spirit. Yeah. Because I believe people in our homes right now who would not identify as Christian.

761
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:29,280
Sure. And you hear the experience they've had in life in a church and you can understand,

762
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:34,400
I understand why that person would be hesitant to go to church or call themselves a Christian.

763
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:43,200
But at the same time, I can see, I'm thinking of somebody specifically who is patient and kind

764
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:50,800
and forgiving and encouraging. And you just know, okay, he's getting it. And I'm not going to try

765
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:57,440
and force something down his throat right now. But you can just tell the Holy Spirit is working.

766
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:03,840
And our job is to continue to be a safe place for him to ask questions,

767
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:11,920
to talk about his experiences, his ideas, and we can talk about ours. Because the other thing is,

768
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:21,680
I hope I am, I hope I'm displaying more of the fruits of the spirit as a result of the jail.

769
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:22,560
And that's the thing about jail.

770
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,000
So it's more of a ministry to the church than it is the people who are incarcerated in Yonkark

771
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:31,840
County jail. You just wonder if Jesus maybe knew that, like with his, because I've been thinking

772
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:36,720
about, I know, I know the whole like visit people in jail gets thrown out a lot. And it's kind of

773
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:43,180
of like, "Oh, this is a thing you as a Christian should be doing." But there's this really

774
00:49:43,180 --> 00:49:49,240
interesting phenomenon of exactly in the reverse of like, who's actually being ministered to?

775
00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:56,960
Right. I tell every group that I talk to, to the extent that the formerly incarcerated

776
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:02,880
are not actively participating in our churches is to are the detriment more than it is to

777
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:03,880
there in that tremendous.

778
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:04,880
Yep.

779
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:05,880
Yep.

780
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:06,880
I firmly believe that.

781
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,080
I hope, and I hope, I hope faith leaders hear that.

782
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:17,280
That I think that's the one thing that I would say I know in the previous ministry that I

783
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:24,680
was a part of some of the men, some of the men coming out of they were that would that

784
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,840
would frequently were part of our congregation or would frequently come and share in our

785
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:29,240
congregation.

786
00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:38,920
It was like the absolute highlight for so many people because what it did is it really

787
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,280
put a mirror on them.

788
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:48,760
Like it re-prioritizes everything that you think you're worried about in your whatever

789
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:54,080
when you hear a completely different perspective of like, "Hey, I'm just working to stay clean

790
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,040
this month.

791
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:02,840
I'm just working to repair this relationship with my daughter because I was absent for

792
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,520
because I was so strong out or whatever for this long.

793
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,600
And you're like, huh, yeah, okay.

794
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:14,280
That's gosh, maybe the things that I'm griping about to God right now, maybe I need to like

795
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:15,280
recalibrate.

796
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:20,640
And maybe this person has a lot to teach me about grace and forgiveness and persistence

797
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:21,640
and all these things.

798
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:22,640
Got it.

799
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:23,640
We had a guy share his testimony.

800
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:24,640
He's smart.

801
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:25,880
He preached today at our church.

802
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:30,520
at work, he's currently at work at least. It is the same thing. You hear a story and you're thinking,

803
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:36,600
"Oh man, you've lived through more than I will ever live with or lived through."

804
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:45,320
And we have a lot to learn from our incarcerated brothers and sisters. And if we think that it's

805
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,840
just our job to go and administer to them, we're getting it backwards.

806
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:55,560
Yeah. That's really amazing. Well, Corey, I just, I guess, number one, we always want to make sure

807
00:51:55,560 --> 00:52:00,600
this is available. If people are interested in getting connected with yourself in the ministry,

808
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:06,760
where should they go? Where should we send them? You can find us on Instagram, Facebook,

809
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:11,400
and our website. So if you just Google Elkart County Jail Ministry, you'll find everything.

810
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,800
Awesome. Bingo. Well, that'll be in the show notes for sure. We'll be always able to send people

811
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:20,760
there and, uh, and, and what kind of, I just quick overview, if people want to get connected with a

812
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:24,760
jail ministry and they're like, Hey, I got like a lot in life, but I feel like maybe I have,

813
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:29,240
might have something to offer or be able to participate in general.

814
00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:31,880
Like what's the, what are the opportunities if people want to plug in?

815
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:33,720
We have some opportunities inside.

816
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:36,920
So COVID, last time we talked was during COVID.

817
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:37,880
Everything was shut down.

818
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:38,680
Yeah.

819
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,760
And we're slowly building up from COVID.

820
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:44,280
And so there are now opportunities to get involved inside the Elkhart County Jail.

821
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,800
So I do a book club and I teach an inside out dance class.

822
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,600
You guys, oh my gosh, you should do a podcast.

823
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:51,720
Oh, here we go.

824
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:52,680
From the jail.

825
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:53,320
Yes.

826
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:54,360
With our inside out dance.

827
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,600
Let's do it. Let's do it. Right here. Right here. Right now.

828
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:57,480
All right. Let's do it.

829
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:58,360
That would be fantastic.

830
00:52:58,360 --> 00:52:58,920
Let's do it. Let's do it.

831
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:00,360
That's a brilliant idea. I love that.

832
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,360
Yeah. So they can join me for book club.

833
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,040
They can come to our inside out dads class.

834
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,120
We have different things throughout the day

835
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:06,840
throughout the month.

836
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:08,520
So we had an Amish choir come in.

837
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:09,000
Yes.

838
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:09,640
Wow.

839
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,400
And they sang two hymns and each

840
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,520
and each war they just kind of went around and did some.

841
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:14,840
Yeah.

842
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:15,800
Did a hym sing.

843
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:16,600
Yeah.

844
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,120
We do painting classes.

845
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,840
And so our assistant chaplains and our volunteers

846
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,880
are able to participate in some of those activities.

847
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:29,520
we're always looking for churches and volunteers to get involved in our housing.

848
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,640
So once a month, all of our tenants get together and we have pizza,

849
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:41,000
we have a topic that we talk about, it's just a way to get, you know, to build a community.

850
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:45,760
And so we met today, we have a group from 8th Street Mennonite attends,

851
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:50,800
a group from River Oaks attends. So we're always looking for people to get involved

852
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:57,800
because we want the people who live in our homes to have a good experience with people

853
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,800
who call themselves Christians, because they've always had a great experience.

854
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:01,800
Fair enough.

855
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,800
And we want our churches to get involved so they get to know some of the people,

856
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,800
because again, I think it's more of a ministry to them,

857
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,800
and we can learn more about God through them than maybe they can through us.

858
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:19,080
us. So, but also specifically, if there are people out there who want to be part of like a home,

859
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:23,960
what's like a home repair ministry team, we have a couple of them, but every now and then

860
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:30,360
our houses need a new roof, they need a new porch or a new toilet. And yeah, that's a great way for

861
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,160
people to get involved also. That's fantastic.

862
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:40,440
Great episode that also fostered what will inevitably be a future episode. Yes. I'm very,

863
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:49,560
very, very excited about that. And I think, or just on a personal note, I mean, I'll just

864
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:54,400
say, I'm super grateful for what you're doing, super grateful to call you a friend. Thanks

865
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:59,440
for being here. I feel like I learned, gosh, I feel like I learned some really significant

866
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:04,280
things. I have this whole like, sort of spiritual intake when we have these conversations. It's

867
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:10,040
like, gosh, I need to reconsider. I need to reconsider something. I need to think about

868
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:17,720
So just thanks to you and all the great people that are part of the jail ministry.

869
00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:24,560
The number of stories just as a pastor in the community for, you know, for 17 years.

870
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:29,760
The stories that I have heard come out of it exactly on the other side of people that have

871
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:34,480
just their lives that they volunteered with the transformation that is brought to them.

872
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,280
Man, really, really, really significant things.

873
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:38,320
So very, very cool.

874
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:43,240
Well, I'll say the jail ministry has been so successful the past 40 years because Elk

875
00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:45,960
Park County is just so incredibly supportive.

876
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:46,960
Yeah.

877
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:47,960
Yes.

878
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:48,960
It's unbelievable.

879
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:49,960
It's humbling.

880
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:50,960
It's unbelievable.

881
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:51,960
Across multiple denominational lines.

882
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,640
So if there's a denomination in Elk Park County, they're involved in the jail ministry.

883
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:56,640
That's awesome.

884
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:01,520
Mininites and all flavor of Mininites and former Mininites and missionary and Baptist

885
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,320
and Lutheran and Catholic and I mean, you name it.

886
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,680
So that's the other thing about the jail ministry.

887
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,840
I think it's more ministry than church because when you volunteer at the ministry, you realize,

888
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:18,800
oh, we're all playing for the same team. There might be significant differences between

889
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:25,040
denominations that need to be considered. But when you boil it down and you're working inside

890
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:32,240
the jail, what you realize quickly is, man, if we can just all focus and agree that Jesus is Lord

891
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:34,240
And that's who we're trying to follow.

892
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:38,200
You know, even a Baptist and a Mennonite can get along.

893
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,600
Let's say what?

894
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,000
Oh, that's awesome.

895
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,040
Well, again, Corey, thanks for hanging out with us tonight, man.

896
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:45,700
Thanks for having me back on.

897
00:56:45,700 --> 00:56:47,000
So, so great.

898
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,400
And just, man, brings a lot of joy to my heart.

899
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,500
But as always, before we let you go.

900
00:56:52,500 --> 00:56:55,400
And now it's time for the dudes and dads pop quiz.

901
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:56,500
Thank you, Aaron, James.

902
00:56:56,500 --> 00:56:57,700
No, that's Reagan.

903
00:56:57,700 --> 00:56:58,400
That's Reagan.

904
00:56:58,400 --> 00:56:59,900
That was a new one.

905
00:56:59,900 --> 00:57:00,600
Listen, look.

906
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:02,720
And now it's time for the dudes and dads.

907
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:03,880
That is Reagan Reagan.

908
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:04,440
I'm sorry.

909
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:05,080
It's an updated one.

910
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:06,200
I'm sorry, Reagan.

911
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:07,560
You got to I was unprepared.

912
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:11,680
I was like, who is this mature, more mature voice that I hear on the line?

913
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:12,880
I guess they done.

914
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:13,200
Yes.

915
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,320
So this is the time that we just ask Corey random questions

916
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,320
that have nothing to do with jail ministry.

917
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,280
Mostly he can't prepare for it.

918
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,480
He doesn't he doesn't know what what's coming next.

919
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:25,360
And in either the week.

920
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:26,520
So here we go.

921
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,520
I got to your number one.

922
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:30,120
What are you currently curious about?

923
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:30,920
Oh, there we go.

924
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:32,420
What are you currently curious about, Corey?

925
00:57:32,420 --> 00:57:37,660
Oh, um, interesting.

926
00:57:37,660 --> 00:57:39,820
It's like, am I curious about it?

927
00:57:39,820 --> 00:57:50,760
I feel like I'm curious about a lot.

928
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,520
I'm trying to narrow it down about the thing that I've been

929
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:56,660
the most curious about lately.

930
00:57:56,660 --> 00:57:57,160
Nice.

931
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:04,160
Does it have to be like profound or philosophical?

932
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:05,160
No, no.

933
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,160
We prefer less profound actually.

934
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:11,160
Something that's like, oh, that makes sense.

935
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:12,160
Yeah.

936
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:13,160
Okay.

937
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,160
Well, I'm really curious about astrophotography.

938
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:16,160
Astrophotography.

939
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,160
I'm a photographer.

940
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:19,160
Yes.

941
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:24,160
And so I've always been interested lately in shooting.

942
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,160
Pictures of the Houston Astros.

943
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,240
I get it. Astro photography.

944
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,640
Close. So close.

945
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:33,320
I had to turn it. That was anti-climactic.

946
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,200
Yeah, well, you know, ending to the Astro photography.

947
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:37,480
Fantastic.

948
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,640
Corey, my question is out of all of your family members,

949
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,760
who lives the longest in the zombie apocalypse?

950
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:49,200
Silas Silas, my youngest.

951
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:50,200
OK, by far.

952
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:53,000
And why does Silas make it the longest?

953
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,480
He's an inventor and a tinker.

954
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:59,880
and creative. And if there's somebody who can figure out a way

955
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:00,420
Doncha

956
00:59:00,420 --> 00:59:03,620
to build some type of contraption.

957
00:59:03,620 --> 00:59:06,920
Yes, that will to keep himself safe or to kill everything around him.

958
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:07,680
It would be him.

959
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:09,120
Bingo.

960
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,180
Silas way to go way to go.

961
00:59:11,180 --> 00:59:14,220
I'm guessing those are the two most important things in a zombie apocalypse.

962
00:59:14,220 --> 00:59:15,020
It is. Yeah.

963
00:59:15,020 --> 00:59:17,620
It's it's a safe room and safe room and dead zombies.

964
00:59:17,620 --> 00:59:18,920
That's really what it boils down to.

965
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:20,420
What's your favorite gadget?

966
00:59:24,180 --> 00:59:27,500
Probably my I also I think we talked about this last time I like watches.

967
00:59:27,500 --> 00:59:28,220
Yes.

968
00:59:28,220 --> 00:59:31,820
And so my favorite gadget are my mechanical watches.

969
00:59:31,820 --> 00:59:34,620
Yes. How many watches do you possess?

970
00:59:34,620 --> 00:59:37,860
I was just being made fun of this today.

971
00:59:37,860 --> 00:59:38,660
So great.

972
00:59:38,660 --> 00:59:41,460
We can offer another opportunity.

973
00:59:41,460 --> 00:59:44,260
I think I'm I'm just shy of 20, I think.

974
00:59:44,260 --> 00:59:45,820
He's got two on right now.

975
00:59:45,820 --> 00:59:46,620
Yeah, he's got two.

976
00:59:46,620 --> 00:59:47,020
You know that.

977
00:59:47,020 --> 00:59:49,260
He always has two, which is which is normal.

978
00:59:49,260 --> 00:59:50,020
It's normal.

979
00:59:50,020 --> 00:59:52,460
That's logical and normal,

980
00:59:52,460 --> 00:59:54,900
depending, depending on what's going on.

981
00:59:54,900 --> 00:59:57,100
OK, my

982
00:59:57,100 --> 01:00:00,780
my next well here, next question.

983
01:00:00,780 --> 01:00:03,740
What book should we all be reading right now?

984
01:00:03,740 --> 01:00:07,180
Oh, that's good.

985
01:00:07,180 --> 01:00:13,220
OK, I I just finished.

986
01:00:13,220 --> 01:00:17,860
There's a couple I need to choose from.

987
01:00:17,860 --> 01:00:21,300
We just finished one in book club

988
01:00:21,660 --> 01:00:26,780
And it's called This Here Flesh by Cole Arthur Riley.

989
01:00:26,780 --> 01:00:31,420
And again, any author with three names like that, it's worth it's worth it.

990
01:00:31,420 --> 01:00:33,620
You know, you know, it's gonna be good.

991
01:00:33,620 --> 01:00:36,260
His parents knew what they were doing.

992
01:00:36,260 --> 01:00:38,100
This here, this here.

993
01:00:38,100 --> 01:00:41,100
Flesh. Flesh.

994
01:00:41,100 --> 01:00:43,500
And what's what's so great about the book?

995
01:00:43,500 --> 01:00:47,220
Her her writing style is absolutely beautiful.

996
01:00:47,220 --> 01:00:47,940
Love it.

997
01:00:47,940 --> 01:00:51,620
It's one of the it's been one of the the the favorite books we've done in book club.

998
01:00:51,620 --> 01:00:52,660
Wow. Okay.

999
01:00:52,660 --> 01:00:53,860
This is your first. All right.

1000
01:00:53,860 --> 01:00:55,620
My last question.

1001
01:00:55,620 --> 01:00:57,020
Who would play you in a movie?

1002
01:00:57,020 --> 01:01:02,820
Oh, I've got I've I've got some requests, I think.

1003
01:01:02,820 --> 01:01:05,660
Um, Bob Odenkirk.

1004
01:01:05,660 --> 01:01:08,180
Yes. No, that is spot on.

1005
01:01:08,180 --> 01:01:10,380
And it was what I was thinking.

1006
01:01:10,380 --> 01:01:11,660
That is my favorite actor.

1007
01:01:11,660 --> 01:01:14,180
That is perfect.

1008
01:01:14,180 --> 01:01:15,540
He's he's one of my fit.

1009
01:01:15,540 --> 01:01:17,180
Honestly, yeah, he's a great actor.

1010
01:01:17,180 --> 01:01:18,980
He's fantastic.

1011
01:01:18,980 --> 01:01:22,360
You know, it's good when Joel thinks of the same person.

1012
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:23,320
Oh, my gosh.

1013
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:24,260
I just like that.

1014
01:01:24,260 --> 01:01:26,920
The joy that came up within my heart.

1015
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,720
Oh, so good.

1016
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,420
No, it totally attracts every every every bit of it.

1017
01:01:32,420 --> 01:01:35,820
And Bob Odin Kirk would for his character, Woodward to watch it.

1018
01:01:35,820 --> 01:01:37,620
So that would be like it would be spot on.

1019
01:01:37,620 --> 01:01:39,860
I think he would. Oh, my gosh. So good.

1020
01:01:39,860 --> 01:01:42,520
My final question is

1021
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:46,920
if if given the opportunity

1022
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:54,160
to you like right now you were told you get to take a three day a three day

1023
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:59,960
vacation to any to any spot that you can drive to where you headed oh

1024
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:08,840
interesting it'd be a haul mm-hmm oh no I've been changed my mind okay

1025
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:13,000
Seattle Washington Seattle Washington I've never been there but I think I was

1026
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,720
born to live there. I have a I want to go to Seattle.

1027
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:18,640
Fair enough. OK, it is.

1028
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:20,520
Seattle. I think I would love it there. OK.

1029
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:21,400
That's where he said it.

1030
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,640
Corey, you've successfully passed our pop quiz.

1031
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:25,720
Way to go, Corey. Yes. Yes.

1032
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:29,240
No one's failed yet, but there's been a few we've wondered about.

1033
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:33,280
Well, hey, again, Corey, thanks for hanging out with us.

1034
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:34,720
Appreciate it so much. Thank you.

1035
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:39,320
Guys, as always, you can head over to dudesanddanspodcast.com

1036
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:41,600
and check out all the show notes.

1037
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:45,000
We'll have great show notes on this one and past episodes as well.

1038
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:47,320
And we'll link to Corey's past episode too.

1039
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:49,240
We will. So make sure you check that out.

1040
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:50,600
Also, dudes and dads.

1041
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,520
Let me see. Dudes and dads podcast at gmail.com.

1042
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:57,440
If you want to send us any helpful or unhelpful emails, we'll take either.

1043
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:58,440
We're not picky.

1044
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:02,080
And if you want to be like Jordan and Chris and say hi to us, come find us somewhere.

1045
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:05,520
Yeah, Jordan and Chris, to keep up the good work, spread the good word, appreciate it all.

1046
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:11,120
Hey, guys, thanks for joining us and our next time until until until next time.

1047
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:12,840
And we wish you grace and peace

1048
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:15,420
(upbeat music)

1049
01:03:15,420 --> 01:03:18,000
(upbeat music)

1050
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,580
(upbeat music)

1051
01:03:20,580 --> 01:03:30,580
[MUSIC]