Mia Hobbs: Hello, and welcome to the Why I Knitt podcast. My name
is Dr. Mia Hobbs and I'm a clinical psychologist who's
passionate about knitting and its benefits for our mental well
being. Each week I interview a different knitter about why they
knit and how it benefits their mental health. This week on the
podcast, I'm talking to Lauren Brennan, who is the managing
director of Project Knitwell, you can find links to Project
Knitwell, and any of the yarns and patterns that Lauren and I
discuss in the show notes. Hi, Lauren, welcome to the podcast.
Lauren Brennan: Hi, thanks so much for having me. Mia, I
appreciate the opportunity to talk about knitting for
wellness.
Mia Hobbs: Thank you for joining me. So I always start by asking
how your story with knitting began.
Lauren Brennan: You know, I feel like my story isn't terribly
unique. I was taught to knit in the fourth grade by my
grandmother,
Mia Hobbs: and how old is fourth grade for those of us who don't.
Lauren Brennan: I was just just about less. Um just about nine.
Almost ten. Okay. Yeah, so pretty young. And I was very
good with my hands and my grandmother recognised that I
really enjoyed working with my hands. The unusual part of my
story is that the time that she taught me, she was going through
experimental treatment for an aggressive kidney cancer. And
she was really in a time of stress for her, I think it was
an opportunity for her to pass down a long standing tradition.
Many, many families have grandmothers and mothers who
knits but I think it was a wellness tool for her in that
moment. And she recognised that she could teach me that wellness
tool and really share a lifelong tool with me. I still have
actually, I keep it here on my desk, the original project on
the needles that we shared together. Yeah. And it's you
know, it has all these bits and bobbles and all of these little,
you know, little squirrely bits. But yeah, she was very patient
with me. And you can see where she worked with me at the
beginning and it gets wider and wider. Somehow I was
Mia Hobbs: very often find that with people I've taught, I think
it's sometimes when you the yarn gets flipped over the back and
you turn the first stitch on the needle into two stitches, I
think,
Lauren Brennan: right? There's no, yeah, the increases on the
edge are really, you know, I was I was letting it grow. And I
didn't even know that that was what I was up to. I always I
always tell people that I teach to knit that, every mistake is
actually a technique. And so really, you know, I was going
for a crescent. Right. I was, yeah.
Mia Hobbs: Amazing. So amazing. You still have it. I think that
thats quite rare,
Lauren Brennan: my mom found it in an old trunk not too long
ago. And I can't even believe that it's on the same needles
that my grandmother shared. And I should have it framed, you
know, I should frame it or something. But yeah, I like to
hold on to it every once in a while. And I put it up on my
bulletin board.
Mia Hobbs: So Oh, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing
that. So that you've still got your first ever project that you
did with your grandma. Yeah. And did you keep knitting straight
away? Or was there a time where you didn't knit?
Lauren Brennan: I did I knit for quite a while I did some finger
knitting. I did a lot of weaving looms, you know, tiny little
loom work. I, my walls in my childhood bedroom were covered
in little projects that I'd made. They still are covered in
some of them, actually, really, which my parents are, are good
at preserving our childhood memories. I think I'm saying but
I think that I had a long gap between probably, you know, late
middle school into college. And when I went to college, a friend
of mine was studying in Ireland, actually. And I went to visit
her and we were on a local bus. She was studying there. So we
were, you know, we were not quite tourists. But we met these
old women that were knitting. And they said here, here, take
this wool that here take this wool and knit with us. And they
were insistent that we knit and you know, I had not knit in
years, but I remembered the pattern and I remembered how to
knit just riding a bike. Yeah. And I was kind of amazed to that
that was possible that I could just pick it right back up.
Yeah. At the next bus stop. They literally almost dragged us to a
yarn shop and I bought a bunch of Irish wool. That was
beautiful. I still have it. And I I spent a lot of the rest of
the trip knitting, you know, basic garter stitch. That was
sort of my my flashback to knitting was not very advanced.
I never really had had much advanced knitting at that point.
But but those repetitive stitches, that's the value to
me.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, that's amazing, amazing story. And I'm sure they
probably have no idea how significant that was and what
you've ended up doing now?
Lauren Brennan: Yes, I wish I could go back in a time machine
and talk to them again and find out what their story was. And
they were very interesting ladies that they were even
interested in talking to us was was a joy. Really? Yeah.
Mia Hobbs: And that, you know, you already had you already knew
how to knit did they know that?
Lauren Brennan: Yeah. Well, it was funny. I said, Oh, I used to
knit you know, so I had shared that, but it had been many, many
years. But I was always pretty pretty. My hands are really, I
think, engaged with a certain part of my brain. So I think I
was always pretty handy. And some, you know, I think knitting
is not for everyone, but some people are really driven by
handwork. And I think that that ignites a certain part of our
brains. And, you know, really, scientifically, it's proven to
be a really great tool for a lot of people to, to regulate their,
your hands, actually, there's a book by Frank Wilson, called The
Hand, and it talks about how your hand is connected to 60% of
your brain activity, which if you think about the the, the
activity that goes on in your brain, I mean, 60% is pretty
significant. So if you're able to ignite that much of your
brain with bilateral knitting movements, you're really able to
bring yourself out of pain responses, you're able to bring
yourself down and regulate all of the neurotransmitters that
are igniting in us every day, and some are good and some are
bad. So I'm excited that I, whenever I can teach someone to
knit when they're facing any sort of pressure, or stress or
or give them that tool ahead of that point, I think it's it's
such a benefit for the long term, you know, advances that go
on within our, within our mental health, and also just in the
Mia Hobbs: And, obviously, now you're involved with Project net
neuroplasticity of our brain? Yeah.
Well, and that's something you're doing for a living. But I
wonder for you personally, when that link first dawned on you,
or when you first experienced that as something that knitting
was not just doing something with your hands, but it was
actually helping on a psychological level? Yeah.
Lauren Brennan: That is a really great question. I was thinking
about the, the title of your, you know, the title of your
podcast is why why you knit? Yeah, why I knit. And I feel
like I knit because I have to which it may sound very extreme
or overstated,
Mia Hobbs: not to me.
Lauren Brennan: Not to you good. But I really believe that it
helps bring me back to a baseline. It provides just an
overall sense of calm and well being. I think it took me a
while to realise that these are proven benefits scientifically.
You know, I, I shake my head now thinking, of course, it lowers
my blood pressure, I can really feel that. Yeah. And it took me
a while to make the connection between the scientific evidence.
And what Project Knitwell tries to do is provide more outlets
for research, to give people more of a mindset that this is
actually a tool for well being and a tool for wellness and not
just a luxurious hobby, or, you know, an opportunity to unwind.
It's just really recentering and and rebalancing those chemicals
in your brain and giving you a sense of satisfaction. At the
same time. I think there are so many activities that can
rebalance our brain like meditation, and yoga and all of
these other activities that other people find as releases.
But I think that knitting has the added benefit of something a
presentable at the end, a gift that you can give someone or
something that you can have as a tangible piece. Sentimental
piece, too. I love to knit on trips. And it to me that is my
souvenir of the trip. Yeah, you know, it's a memory that I hold.
You know, I remember where I made each of the shawls that I
have, and I can I can keep track of the 17 sweaters I knit during
COVID
Mia Hobbs: 17 That's impressive.
Lauren Brennan: I think of how absurd that is. but you know, I
really genuinely was knitting because I had to It kept me
going and, and when there was no other, no other sense of
satisfaction, I always had my knitting and that day, you know,
every day that I could cast something off was the day where
I felt particularly satisfied. So yeah.
Mia Hobbs: And how about once you've finished the thing? It
sounds like you do keep that kind of relationship with the
object?
Lauren Brennan: Yes, I agree. I think that even when you give
something as a gift, or maybe especially as you give something
as a gift, it becomes a really sentimental piece of you. And
it's funny, I think I, you know, I, I don't always give knitted
gifts to other knitters. So sometimes people don't quite get
how much has gone into the item you're sharing with them. And
that can be challenging. Sometimes you want to make sure
that you're giving the gift to someone that that gets it, you
know, they they understand the, the effort and the you know, the
feeling that went into that is, I think is important. But I
yeah, I keep I keep all of my knits, you feel like you have
quite a few items that have a sentimental attachment to or
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, definitely. And I think in a in a similar way to
you actually. And I think I have grown into my the way in which
I've used knitting deliberately to help me and I think I did it
because, you know, I started doing it, my mum suggested it as
a way of managing kind of exam stress, when I started my
training, because she'd met someone else who'd learned to
Brickley. And she thought I needed to do something that was
unrelated to psychology. So she said, Why don't you learn to
knit or relearn I've learned as a kid, and it kind of took off
from there, really, but it has taken me a while to really think
about the many ways that it has helped me. And I think now I
deliberately choose projects for significant moments or
transitions, like when I left working in the NHS, the National
Health Service here, that was a big thing in terms of my career.
And I felt like I needed a big project to take me through that
transition. So I started a particular shawl that I'd been
kind of planning to knit and that was a project. But now I
still have it and associated with that transition in my life
Lauren Brennan: That's so wonderful. Yes, yes, I love that
you use the word deliberate, because I do think it can be
really a something that you think about. And I think
knitters really are deliberate in a lot of what we do. And I
think that that's a good, that's a really good word to describe
kind of the practical approach to a new project and, and
thinking of it as something that's deliberately improving
your wellness and, you know, helping you and driving you
towards a sense of accomplishment that you wouldn't
necessarily have in other things. And, and also, like you
mentioned, it can be a distraction, you know, it can be
a way to get to pull yourself out of something that may be all
consuming and it might be better to be more balanced about it.
Mia Hobbs: It'd be really helpful to hear about Project
Knitwell, and how that started and about your involvement.
Lauren Brennan: Absolutely. So project net well has been a
formal nonprofit since 2010. So we're we just celebrated our
11th birthday, which is long standing. Yes, thank you. We're
very excited to provide knitting as a wellness tool in hospital
settings and community settings. Throughout our this region. We
have also expanded to providing virtual knitting instruction
through Knitwell in the cloud, which we're very excited to have
more touch points and more opportunity for people to feel
connected to knitting. We have found that we've taught over
6000 knitters, new knitters have been born. Yeah, which I think
is really powerful. And we're really reaching them primarily
at the point where they are most stressed. So we work with
patients, we work with their caregivers, people that are
primarily waiting, and they may need something that pulls them
out of their patient status, right. So everything they deal
with in the day has to do with their illness. And if we can
bring in knitting as a distraction or as something that
can provide them a sense of calm, to soothe them and comfort
them in that moment. That's really our ultimate goal. We
have our mission is knitting with a purpose for comfort,
wellness and community. And I think of comfort as that point
of stress. So we come in and we swoop in when they're actually
in the hospital receiving treatment for cancer, and we're
providing it out that point as a comfort, but wellness. I think
of that as a preventative measure so we're trying to reach
people before For they hit a point of stress, so that they
can build their parachute, if you will, they can have knitting
as part of their mental health toolkits, that so when they do
have a crisis moment, they can turn to knitting to stabilise
that and give them an opportunity to release that
tension. And then community of course, is really the top of our
of our house, that's the roof above all of it. And really
community is what drives a lot of us to continue to knit. And
building that sense of you think about the future and how
knitting can provide a sense of well being among senior citizens
that come together and knitting circles young people too not not
just everyone that comes together and knits provides a
really strong sense of community, which I think is a
really wonderful piece of the pie.
Mia Hobbs: So most of the people you're working with, are they
new to knitting or some of the people who have have knitted
previously,
Lauren Brennan: we work with both, I would say primarily,
we're teaching new knitters, there are quite a few people
that will say, Oh, I, I learned from my grandmother when I was
young. Yeah, but I haven't knit in a really long time. So
sometimes we're catching them back up to speed. But I would
say that the people that find it most rewarding are those that
may have never tried it. And they think, Oh, I'm not sure if
I'll be good at this, or I'm not that great with my hands. But if
they can overcome that, they find that we've found that they
find the most satisfaction from it. In the end that perseverance
is really powerful. You know, you release so much dopamine
when you feel that rush of Oh, I really was able to overcome
something that I wasn't certain I would be good at that. I think
a lot of children I know you work with a lot of children, do
you feel that they have that sense of accomplishment? Like
they weren't sure if they could do it yet, but they were able to
Mia Hobbs: yeah I really do and really feeling kind of proud of
themselves when they've achieved something new and showing it off
to other people. And so yeah, really strong sense of pride. I
suppose it's something I still feel like I get out of knitting
that when I do a new like recently, I've been knitting a
hat, which has got very unusual construction. I don't know if
you know Woolly Wormhead who designs these amazing hats that
are knitted sideways.
Lauren Brennan: How fun. Wow, I have one right here. It's one of
my favourites because it covers my ears. Like at the this is the
yes, she has she has the break in back it's really wonderful.
Mia Hobbs: Oh, that's beautiful. And so I'm knitting the Azula I
think it is. So from the elemental collection, but it's a
provisional cast on, which is not something I've tried many
times and certainly not ever successfully I'm going to say
with a crochet hook. And I mastered that. And then it was a
different, very different looking pattern that I had to
learn how to read. And that involved a lot of going back
over the first few rows and trying to figure out where it
was I'd gone wrong with the short rows. And then I got it
and I figured out why. And I still got that boost of oh, I've
achieved something new. So even 15 years down the line of
knitting every day.
Lauren Brennan: Yes, and that actually is the most the best
part about knitting, there's always more yeah, there's always
more to strive towards and to try out. And there's always
little quirky things that you may have forgotten that you
could go back to or, but I do feel like it's always expanding
and, and also the fundamental, just repetitive movements, even
regardless of the challenges are really calming and are able to
help people get back to baseline also
Mia Hobbs: are you teaching people individually or in
groups?
Lauren Brennan: We primarily teach one on one, we have found
that that connection is when we're most successful, and part
of it is it's challenging to follow along without some some
sort of personal connection. We have occasionally taught in a
larger group setting. We have groups of nurses, for instance,
that we can come together in a sort of a professional
development workshop to give them an opportunity to learn
what is knitting all about how would it you know, can they they
can give it a try in a group setting. And we'll bounce
through you know, we'll have two or three volunteers that can
bounce around the room and help out. But when we are faced with
folks that are in a stressful situation, part of the benefit
is really the conversation that you're having with them. And
it's not that you're approaching it as an art therapist, you're
not there for therapy. You're just They're to give them a
chance to feel like they can have a normal human conversation
that doesn't have anything to do with their illness or whatever
stress they're facing. We work with a group of Afghan refugees
who don't actually speak English yet, and they're learning
English, but the presence of us and being able to show them with
our hands, and both of our hands working in unison, just being
there together, and they come back with these glorious scarves
that are taller than they are, I have this great picture of one
of them standing with this enormous scarf that's almost as
tall as she is. And she was so proud to come back the week
after she learned to knit with this giant scarf that she had
been so productive with. And so she was immediately a brand new
knitter, yes. And we immediately gave her more yarn.
Mia Hobbs: Wow. So she's really run with it. What's the kind of
feedback you get from some of your clients from Project
Knitwell
Lauren Brennan: Well, yeah, that's a great question I, we've
really reached out to quite a few younger folks that we're
really trying to figure out ways to make them feel connected with
what really is truly not a grandmother's hobby anymore. I
mean, it's really ridiculous to think of it that way. And we
have so many young knitters at a school for children with
emotional challenges. We started running a summer camp there a
few years ago, and now we're there all year. And the group of
children that join us are really primarily teenagers are actually
almost all boys, which is interesting. And they do not
have any mindset for girl or boy crafts, or hobbies. And I think
that's just wonderful. But the feedback that we get from, from
those students, and also from the nursing students that we're
working with, at the collegiate level, they are telling us, you
know, I'm spending a lot less time on my phone, I'm not
scrolling, I can check out of all of that, video games, all of
that they can, instead use their hands in a niche and really find
another outlet that's really timeless. And I think giving
them other benefits that you know, beyond what they would get
if they were just reading or doing athletics or other things,
there's another layer to knitting that they wouldn't
necessarily get if they were always distracted on their
phones, and it's so great to just have a chance to, I find
that I put down my phone and check out very easily when I'm
in a in a knitting and knitting. You know, in a I'm in a
different mindset with when I knit, and it helps me really be
removed from the rest of the worries that might be out there
on, you know, lingering on the news channels on my phone and so
forth.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, so it feels like a more calming and
grounding activity for you. Absolutely. And I guess you also
have something to show for it, unlike an hour of scrolling on
Instagram, right?
Lauren Brennan: Absolutely, yes. And you have something that
you've, you've been able to put out into the world, you know,
it's something that, you know, in the ancient world, I mean,
there were always people working with their hands. And And also,
if you think about worry, stones, and beads and things
that people will use there, they'll have a repetitive
movement with their fingers. And there are so many cultures that
have that type of tool. And I think knitting really is, is
that for so many people with that repetitive movements. I
think of it as meditation with my hands. So even though I'm not
really that great at just meditating, yeah, I do think I
get the same benefit or the same feeling that I would get
meditating when I'm knitting, a very repetitive pattern that I
don't have to necessarily pay attention to a chart or yeah,
there's two types of knitting, I always say I've always had, I
always have at least two projects, the repetitive,
easygoing, portable bag that I can just grab and go to the
swimming pool and knit while my kids are swimming. And then I've
got the more complicated colour work pattern that I'm really
focused in on and that's when I need the ultimate distraction.
And that's really what that that more complicated pattern can
somehow have a different set of rewards in the long run too
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, I'm exactly the same with those two categories.
Lauren Brennan: Are you Oh, good,
Mia Hobbs: exactly the same because I think sometimes Yeah,
like you said, you want to do something meditative almost with
your hands. And I find, certainly for me, I focus better
on something if I was attending a zoom training or something
where I had to sit still and listen, I would want to knit and
that would help me focus. And that could be, you know,
knitting lots of stockinette in the round. And, you know, could
be a sock or a hat or something. And then I would like to have
something more complicated, like that hat pattern where I do need
to focus I need to count and look at a chart, but that's for,
I call it active relaxation, where my whole brain needs to be
busy doing something in order to allow it to turn off from other
stressful things.
Lauren Brennan: Yeah, active relaxation. Right? Yes, that it?
That's a perfect way to describe it, I think. Yeah,
Mia Hobbs: I used to go to salsa dancing lessons. And I noticed
that actually, there were loads of doctors at salsa. And I was
thinking, Why are they all here? And I think, I think I noticed
them talking about it. Like they couldn't possibly think about
what is a stressful and busy job. When they were trying to
think about doing something different with their hands and
their, you know, their arms and their hands and their feet and
listening to music all at the same time. They were just
mutually exclusive. And I suppose I feel like that about
complicated patterns that, you know, you just can't think about
other things at the same time.
Lauren Brennan: Right? Absolutely. And I think it's
even true in more extreme cases, where when people are facing
pain in their body, you know, actual physical pain, it can
really help pull people back, it really pulls your brain in a
different direction. And so I think physically, and
scientifically, that has really been proven for so many folks
that you can really reorganise those synapses in your brain.
And I, I feel very strongly that there's so much research
potential to expand on and Project Knitwell really cares
about figuring out ways that we can study more of these benefits
that we all already feel. Yeah. And we already know, but how do
we prove it is the real question.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I would love to
hear about a significant project for you, Lauren, can you think
of a significant knitting project could be one of yours or
one from project knitwell,
Lauren Brennan: that is a really great question. And I
immediately think of a sweater that I knit for my husband,
which was really It started really as a labour of love. It
was the dude sweater from The Big Lebowski, which is a movie
that it's Who is it? Jeff Bridges is in it. And it's a
it's kind of an edgy, quirky indie type movie, but it has a
very recognisable sweater that has a very unique pattern to it.
I think it might actually be a Native American pattern. So
it's, I can I could show it to you. But it was the first
project that I I knit in the round, okay. The knitters dude
is by Andrea Rangel, I believe. And she, it required a steek
which is cutting into your knitting. And this was one of
the largest projects I had ever done. And it had all of these
gigantic colour work floats, which are really challenging for
colour work knitters to catch. And I, when I cut into that
project, I thought, well, here we go, this is gonna sink this
ship is either gonna sink or sail. And I still think of that
moment
Mia Hobbs: by that point, you've knitted the entire thing. And
then we're gonna cut right downt the centre of it
Lauren Brennan: saying, yes, hours and hours of work, months,
months of work. And then I was getting my sharpest scissors out
and I was getting ready to cut down the centre. And luckily, I
did set up the camera, I had the mindset of I need to show
someone and I have really great knitting friends and I said, I'm
going to at least show someone that I'm, I'm cutting into this.
If the, if the ship sinks, at least I'll have a memory of the
ship sinking. So I, I have a time lapse of me cutting cutting
into it. And I had done every reinforcement, I did the crochet
reinforcement, I run the knitting, I'd run the sewing
machine up and down the line. So I was pretty confident that it
wouldn't sink completely. But it could have partially, you know,
there could be a partial failure but you know what, it was really
exhilarating when it worked out and you know, the, the collar
worked out I ended up making a lot of modifications to the
pattern because it didn't quite fit. There were more many
iterations I wanted to have it ready for Christmas and it was
too long and it didn't have a I had a really awkward collar. And
so I didn't have it ready for Christmas, but I think I had it
ready by the end of January I had. I also not only did I cut
down the middle, but I also chopped about six inches off the
bottom because it had become a more of a duster than a
cardigan. Men, or at least my husband wasn't as interested in
a duster length. Yeah. So it was an adventure. And it definitely
felt memorable to me. And I think that it was, it was also a
sense of accomplishment. And even though, you know, he
occasionally wears it, I probably it doesn't, it doesn't
fit quite right. It fits pretty well, there's some good pictures
of him in it. But I think that it's it was still well worth the
time spent and the rewarding feeling that I overcame a lot to
persevere. I you know, it could still be sitting in a bag
somewhere, but it's wearable. So
Mia Hobbs: it sounds like it's almost like the knitters version
of skydiving or something.
Lauren Brennan: Absolutely
Mia Hobbs: adrenaline fueled.
Lauren Brennan: yes it was I adrenaline is right. I really
did feel that way. And you know, there was a certain high when it
didn't completely unravel.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, sure. A bit of magic. I'm interested in. And
you mentioned a lot of kind of, I don't want to call them
failures, but a lot of challenges along the way in that
project. And I think that's something many knitters will
relate to the idea of, you know, as I say, my knitting group, you
know, none of us get to be an experienced knitter without
having to unravel very many things. Possibly even most
things get unravelled at some point to some extent. I'm
interested in, I don't know how that feels for you what musings
you have on that in terms of whether you've learned anything
from it for the rest of your life, or
Lauren Brennan: right? Well, I'm a big believer in, there's a
quote that says like, the person who doesn't make mistakes is
unlikely to make anything. I think Paul Arden said that,
okay, I think that knitting is really all about making
mistakes, every mistake is actually a technique. And when I
teach someone to knit, I'm usually explaining that to them
right off the back. And I'm saying that right off the bat
that, you know, every time you pull the yarn to the front by
accident, that's actually a technique that you'll use later
on. And that's a relief in a way that they can think of they can
think of everything as if you make a mistake in a pattern, you
know, if you make that mistake repeatedly, it's just a new
technique, right?
Mia Hobbs: Or a new pattern
Lauren Brennan: or a new pattern. Yeah, so. So I think
that, you know, my feeling on how things go when you're
knitting something, and, you know, sometimes projects need to
rest also, you know, if something is aggravating,
there's no reason to, there's no reason to give it that
aggravation in that moment. You know, don't give it don't give
it that, you know, don't give it that level of attention in that
moment. And just step back from it. I'm, I'm very good at
letting my my WIPS or my work in progress. Yes, I'm good at
letting them sit. And they don't taunt me the way they might
taunt other people. Sometimes I, I find that some knitters with
works in progress. They get really upset, like, Oh, I
haven't finished that yet. I need to finish it, I need to get
back to that. And I really think that it's okay to let them rest.
Yeah. And I don't want them to taunt me or to make me feel like
I'm not accomplishing something by letting it sit for a little
while. And yeah, and sometimes it's just nice to come back to
it later on. And I think that goes for a lot of things in our
mental health that you have to step back from them in order to
gain a little bit of perspective on maybe you look, look more in
depth on what other people did to make that pattern work for
them. And I find that going and looking at other people's
projects on Ravelry is helpful. You know, I could say, oh, well,
they it looks like they have the same problem with the collar
that I was having. How did they overcome it? Or what did they do
differently? Or are looking at other cardigans, like when I was
working on the dude, I looked for other ideas of what to do
about the collar that may be less awkward. And I really just
invented my own collar that's totally different than the shawl
collar that's called for in the pattern, which really wasn't
working. So you know, there's ways to kind of get around and
then that perseverance and it can be pretty powerful too.
Mia Hobbs: Do you think it spills over into other areas of
your life? Do you think you've taken those things you've
learned from knitting and helped you to be more I don't know,
mindful of the process or able to tolerate mistakes in inverted
commas in other areas.
Lauren Brennan: Yeah, I think so. I think I definitely feel
like I'm a more patient person because of knitting. And I've
always, I am very perseverent. I don't, I don't usually give up
very easily. So I think that that's a piece that I take with
me into other parts of my life. And I think it's a good skill to
have or a good mindset to have that you can always keep trying.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, I think it's made me more appreciative of the
process. I think of other things like, you know, starting a
business after I left the National Health Service, not
having to have figured it all out and got to the end result
immediately. But to be able to think, no, I'm on a journey
towards that. That might be hopefully where I'm headed, but
it's alright to not have figured it all out on day one, right.
Lauren Brennan: Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's the
beauty of a new project, right? There's always possibility and
you can always take it in a different direction if you need
to.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. Yeah.That's really helpful. I always ask
about a knitting high and a knitting low. I don't know what
your thoughts are about that. Yes. Yes.
Lauren Brennan: That's a fun question. Actually, I always
think about one of my highs was really teaching my boys to knit
when they were seven and 11. And I'll still occasionally many,
many years later, find them knitting unprompted, which is
really, it's I hope that they think back on their, you know,
their, their mom being this very passionate knitter. And, you
know, I'm sharing it with them. And I hope that at some point in
their life, they can turn to it as a wellness tool. I really
enjoy teaching other people to knit. And, you know, Project
Knitwell, that's our main mission, our mission really is
to figure out more outlets to give people the opportunity to
try out knitting and to learn with quality materials and
quality instruction that's really proven over the test of
time that we're using what we think is the best method to
teach new folks, I have a, prior to the pandemic I was, I had a
group of neighbours and friends that would come over to knit at
my house every other week. And it was such a great way to feel
connected to each other. And we would do knit alongs Have you
ever done a knit along where you knit the same pattern,
Mia Hobbs: I've done one with my mum and my sister actually,
where we couldn't all be together. And I gave them a kind
of I think it was supposed to be a sock set. You know, where you
get a small skein of contrasting colour for the heels and the
toes. But actually, we made cowls. So the idea was to own it
the same
Lauren Brennan: the same. Yeah. I love that.
Mia Hobbs: Because they're more practical for walking dogs
because the dogs not going to grab hold the end of the scarf
Lauren Brennan: true that's very true.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, so I think that's probably the only one
I've done. And that was one we just I just made it up
Lauren Brennan: up. Yes. A personal Yeah. Well, sometimes
that's the best because then you have complete control. One of
the knit alongs that I did with some friends of mine was it was
a mystery knit along. Joji Locatelli the Starting Point,
which is this gigantic,
Mia Hobbs: yeah, that's what I knit when I left the NHS you
actually, it was quite poignant that it was kind of two halves,
which I saw was like the two halves of my career joining in
the centre
Lauren Brennan: coming together. Oh, I love that. It's so
symbolic, right. So yeah, this is my insanely large starting
point, right?
Mia Hobbs: It's beautiful
Lauren Brennan: it just kept going and going, right? Yeah,
Wasn't it fun? Did you do it as a mystery? Like you did it right
along with the pattern?
Mia Hobbs: No, I didn't. And I did it late after everyone else
had done it. So I seen all of the clues. It wasn't a mystery,
but actually, it's strangely in very similar colours to yours.
Lauren Brennan: Oh, no kidding. Oh, that's fun. Oh, I'd love to
see. Yeah, the funnest. the really fun part about this is we
had no idea what shape it would be. We had no idea how the
mystery would come together. And when when she said okay, now
start over and do another piece on the other side. We all shook
our heads like oh, no, this can't be right. Yeah. It was
really fun to have it unfold. Oh my goodness.
Mia Hobbs: That's mine.
Lauren Brennan: We have a matching set of starting points.
That's interesting.
Mia Hobbs: So it's kind of just to describe for people listening
to the podcast who obviously can't see that. I guess mine is
in shades of white and almost black and then shades of grey
with a purple and yours Yeah, I think is quite similar
Lauren Brennan: it's dark blue which kind of matches your black
Yes. Some shades of kind of a a tealy purpley blue. So yeah, oh
my goodness. Well, I just loved this pattern, everything about
it. And my friends knitted knit it with me. So we all had
different versions. And the gauge I mean, some people's are
even larger than mine I'm I you know, tight knitters, loose
knitters everywhere in between and, and we've really I really
enjoy the opportunity to come together with folks and knits.
I've been to Rhinebeck, which was a really high in my
knitting. Career, you know, in terms of being a knitter on the
east coast in the United States going to Rhinebeck, which is New
York sheep and wool festival is kind of the pinnacle of you're
surrounded by people who are true believers in the power of
knitting. Really. It's like a pilgrimage. Yeah, well, yeah.
Mia Hobbs: And how about a knitting low?
Lauren Brennan: Oh, gosh, that's a tough question, because I do
get so many highs from knitting. But I suppose I suppose there
have been many times that I've had gauge issues with just a
beautiful yarn that I was very excited about that just didn't
knit up the way I hoped it would, it could get saggy or
just kind of have a drape that wasn't really that appealing.
But I think sometimes, you know, even when it doesn't come out,
as you expect, you can always reknit things, that's the beauty
of knitting, you can always pull it out again. And you can find a
greater reward in frogging it and then trying over and that's
part of the, you know, and sometimes the biggest obstacles
in knitting that I that I think about, I think I actually got a
really strong dopamine kick from it, you know, I was really gonna
overcome it and, and move forward to a higher reward. And
I think that whether you're a beginner knitter or an advanced
knitter, it's really easy to feel that sense of
accomplishment and, and I like to think of it as an opportunity
to, to face a challenge that isn't, you know, it isn't life
threatening, nothing bad is going to happen, but it gives
you a chance to feel like you were able to, to try something
that may have been challenging and overcome it. Yeah,
Mia Hobbs: I talked about that the kind of the idea of making
safe mistakes, like, yeah, you know, we struggle with doing
things that might go wrong, I suppose. Generally, that can
feel difficult, but I think it is, like you said, it's a way of
doing something where you try something new, and probably
there will be things that go wrong, but you can, unless you
get the scissors out, I always say, which was why the steek is
so challenging, you can unravel it. So it is a fairly safe way
of making mistakes, and practising tolerating that, and
overcoming that I suppse.
Lauren Brennan: Right? Right. And I hope that I hope that my
children, or even my friends see that when we overcome things
together like that, they you know, that they see that that
sense of safe, you know, safe mistakes really are powerful to
give you a sense of resilience. And Project Knitwell really
wants to provide folks that are facing that stressful situation,
a sense of hope, a sense that they are resilient, that they
are fundamentally human. And they're, they're striving
towards something that could be as simple as loops on a needle,
right. But it doesn't have to be complicated and keeping things
at the fundamental, simple level of, you know, those individual
stitches that all come together into something really beautiful,
is pretty powerful. And I I'm excited that when whenever
someone new comes to our online, we have an online, knit two
together community group, and when they come with a new
project to share, you know, that sense of pride that they have,
and showing it off and sharing it with someone that they've
just met on the internet, or they've just met in a hospital
waiting room, or any number of community settings that we've
been able to interact with folks, I think it's a great
equaliser and an opportunity for people to just focus on the
texture of the yarn, the colour of the yarn. And the the beauty
of that is so simple.
Mia Hobbs: And I guess you know, maybe as adults, we don't get so
many opportunities to do like, show and tell is something I've
done or made. And I suppose kids are probably better at that
because we encourage it in them and give them opportunities to
do it. But guess it's not something that necessarily lands
on your lap as an adult.
Lauren Brennan: Yeah, I think we all need show and tell. Exactly.
Exactly.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. So I generally end the interview Lauren with
the question about what's the greatest gift knitting has given
you for the rest of your life?
Lauren Brennan: Oh, goodness, oh my goodness. Well, that the
greatest gift I think is really in the lesson of finding Finding
something that grounds you, that gives you some just a sense of
overall calm and well being. And if it's knitting, I hope that I
hope that you can share that passion with me. But if it's
something else, I, I just hope that everyone finds an outlet
that is as as powerfully rewarding for them as knitting
is for me.
Mia Hobbs: Oh, that's great. Thank you very much. It's been
such a pleasure to talk to you. I'm sure there'll be people who
want to hear more about Project Knitwell, or about you, where
can they find out about that?
Lauren Brennan: Absolutely. We have a website, Project
Knitwell.org. And we're very excited to connect with folks.
We have a newsletter that you can subscribe to, that keeps you
in touch with all of our happenings and Knit Well in the
cloud is very powerful for us now, because it helps us connect
with folks all over the world. And we're especially excited to
have more volunteers that teach virtually, and we are, we're
here to train people in the methods that we've found to be
tried and true. And we really feel that more boots on the
ground in waiting rooms and hospitals and community groups,
schools, teachers, we are so passionate about reaching out to
as many communities so if you're a doctor or a nurse or a teacher
that's facing burnout or feeling that compassion fatigue, we want
to help you we want to connect you to knitting, we want to find
a way to give you the opportunity to find out if
knitting is right for you. So definitely reach out to connect
with us. And I look forward to continuing to spread wellness
and spread knitting as a wellness tool.
Mia Hobbs: Thank you so much for joining me, Lauren. It's been an
absolute pleasure.
Lauren Brennan: Thank you so much.
Mia Hobbs: Thank you for listening to the Why I Knit
podcast. If you'd like to find out more about therapeutic
knitting you can follow me on Instagram at knitting is
therapeutic. Or check out my website therapeutic
knitting.org. To be notified when a new podcast is released.
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