1 00:00:03,450 --> 00:00:06,120 Mia Hobbs: Hello, and welcome to the Why I Knitt podcast. My name 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,520 is Dr. Mia Hobbs and I'm a clinical psychologist who's 3 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,250 passionate about knitting and its benefits for our mental well 4 00:00:11,250 --> 00:00:15,030 being. Each week I interview a different knitter about why they 5 00:00:15,030 --> 00:00:18,180 knit and how it benefits their mental health. This week on the 6 00:00:18,180 --> 00:00:20,850 podcast, I'm talking to Lauren Brennan, who is the managing 7 00:00:20,850 --> 00:00:24,540 director of Project Knitwell, you can find links to Project 8 00:00:24,570 --> 00:00:27,360 Knitwell, and any of the yarns and patterns that Lauren and I 9 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:33,090 discuss in the show notes. Hi, Lauren, welcome to the podcast. 10 00:00:33,330 --> 00:00:36,570 Lauren Brennan: Hi, thanks so much for having me. Mia, I 11 00:00:36,570 --> 00:00:39,660 appreciate the opportunity to talk about knitting for 12 00:00:39,660 --> 00:00:40,470 wellness. 13 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,410 Mia Hobbs: Thank you for joining me. So I always start by asking 14 00:00:43,410 --> 00:00:45,210 how your story with knitting began. 15 00:00:46,590 --> 00:00:48,900 Lauren Brennan: You know, I feel like my story isn't terribly 16 00:00:48,900 --> 00:00:52,920 unique. I was taught to knit in the fourth grade by my 17 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:53,730 grandmother, 18 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,640 Mia Hobbs: and how old is fourth grade for those of us who don't. 19 00:00:57,110 --> 00:01:01,220 Lauren Brennan: I was just just about less. Um just about nine. 20 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,840 Almost ten. Okay. Yeah, so pretty young. And I was very 21 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,810 good with my hands and my grandmother recognised that I 22 00:01:08,810 --> 00:01:13,460 really enjoyed working with my hands. The unusual part of my 23 00:01:13,460 --> 00:01:18,170 story is that the time that she taught me, she was going through 24 00:01:18,170 --> 00:01:22,460 experimental treatment for an aggressive kidney cancer. And 25 00:01:22,460 --> 00:01:27,500 she was really in a time of stress for her, I think it was 26 00:01:27,500 --> 00:01:33,110 an opportunity for her to pass down a long standing tradition. 27 00:01:33,140 --> 00:01:36,020 Many, many families have grandmothers and mothers who 28 00:01:36,020 --> 00:01:41,900 knits but I think it was a wellness tool for her in that 29 00:01:41,900 --> 00:01:45,980 moment. And she recognised that she could teach me that wellness 30 00:01:45,980 --> 00:01:51,770 tool and really share a lifelong tool with me. I still have 31 00:01:52,070 --> 00:01:55,040 actually, I keep it here on my desk, the original project on 32 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,690 the needles that we shared together. Yeah. And it's you 33 00:01:59,690 --> 00:02:03,560 know, it has all these bits and bobbles and all of these little, 34 00:02:03,620 --> 00:02:07,910 you know, little squirrely bits. But yeah, she was very patient 35 00:02:07,910 --> 00:02:10,040 with me. And you can see where she worked with me at the 36 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,940 beginning and it gets wider and wider. Somehow I was 37 00:02:13,940 --> 00:02:17,630 Mia Hobbs: very often find that with people I've taught, I think 38 00:02:17,630 --> 00:02:21,260 it's sometimes when you the yarn gets flipped over the back and 39 00:02:21,260 --> 00:02:23,870 you turn the first stitch on the needle into two stitches, I 40 00:02:23,870 --> 00:02:24,350 think, 41 00:02:24,410 --> 00:02:29,570 Lauren Brennan: right? There's no, yeah, the increases on the 42 00:02:29,570 --> 00:02:33,410 edge are really, you know, I was I was letting it grow. And I 43 00:02:33,410 --> 00:02:37,370 didn't even know that that was what I was up to. I always I 44 00:02:37,370 --> 00:02:41,210 always tell people that I teach to knit that, every mistake is 45 00:02:41,210 --> 00:02:44,480 actually a technique. And so really, you know, I was going 46 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,260 for a crescent. Right. I was, yeah. 47 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,650 Mia Hobbs: Amazing. So amazing. You still have it. I think that 48 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:52,130 thats quite rare, 49 00:02:52,130 --> 00:02:55,160 Lauren Brennan: my mom found it in an old trunk not too long 50 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,300 ago. And I can't even believe that it's on the same needles 51 00:02:59,300 --> 00:03:03,320 that my grandmother shared. And I should have it framed, you 52 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,930 know, I should frame it or something. But yeah, I like to 53 00:03:05,930 --> 00:03:09,170 hold on to it every once in a while. And I put it up on my 54 00:03:09,170 --> 00:03:10,010 bulletin board. 55 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,940 Mia Hobbs: So Oh, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing 56 00:03:12,940 --> 00:03:15,790 that. So that you've still got your first ever project that you 57 00:03:15,790 --> 00:03:19,090 did with your grandma. Yeah. And did you keep knitting straight 58 00:03:19,090 --> 00:03:21,190 away? Or was there a time where you didn't knit? 59 00:03:21,540 --> 00:03:25,260 Lauren Brennan: I did I knit for quite a while I did some finger 60 00:03:25,260 --> 00:03:29,670 knitting. I did a lot of weaving looms, you know, tiny little 61 00:03:29,670 --> 00:03:35,070 loom work. I, my walls in my childhood bedroom were covered 62 00:03:35,070 --> 00:03:39,090 in little projects that I'd made. They still are covered in 63 00:03:39,090 --> 00:03:44,280 some of them, actually, really, which my parents are, are good 64 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:49,620 at preserving our childhood memories. I think I'm saying but 65 00:03:49,620 --> 00:03:56,100 I think that I had a long gap between probably, you know, late 66 00:03:56,100 --> 00:04:00,630 middle school into college. And when I went to college, a friend 67 00:04:00,630 --> 00:04:04,920 of mine was studying in Ireland, actually. And I went to visit 68 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,630 her and we were on a local bus. She was studying there. So we 69 00:04:09,630 --> 00:04:12,990 were, you know, we were not quite tourists. But we met these 70 00:04:13,020 --> 00:04:17,040 old women that were knitting. And they said here, here, take 71 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,240 this wool that here take this wool and knit with us. And they 72 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,230 were insistent that we knit and you know, I had not knit in 73 00:04:25,230 --> 00:04:29,460 years, but I remembered the pattern and I remembered how to 74 00:04:29,460 --> 00:04:33,750 knit just riding a bike. Yeah. And I was kind of amazed to that 75 00:04:33,750 --> 00:04:36,690 that was possible that I could just pick it right back up. 76 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,820 Yeah. At the next bus stop. They literally almost dragged us to a 77 00:04:41,820 --> 00:04:46,230 yarn shop and I bought a bunch of Irish wool. That was 78 00:04:46,230 --> 00:04:51,480 beautiful. I still have it. And I I spent a lot of the rest of 79 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,750 the trip knitting, you know, basic garter stitch. That was 80 00:04:54,750 --> 00:04:59,520 sort of my my flashback to knitting was not very advanced. 81 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,910 I never really had had much advanced knitting at that point. 82 00:05:02,910 --> 00:05:06,810 But but those repetitive stitches, that's the value to 83 00:05:06,810 --> 00:05:07,320 me. 84 00:05:07,710 --> 00:05:10,500 Mia Hobbs: Yeah, that's amazing, amazing story. And I'm sure they 85 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:13,380 probably have no idea how significant that was and what 86 00:05:13,380 --> 00:05:14,730 you've ended up doing now? 87 00:05:14,940 --> 00:05:17,730 Lauren Brennan: Yes, I wish I could go back in a time machine 88 00:05:17,730 --> 00:05:21,690 and talk to them again and find out what their story was. And 89 00:05:22,020 --> 00:05:24,450 they were very interesting ladies that they were even 90 00:05:24,450 --> 00:05:28,260 interested in talking to us was was a joy. Really? Yeah. 91 00:05:28,530 --> 00:05:31,290 Mia Hobbs: And that, you know, you already had you already knew 92 00:05:31,290 --> 00:05:32,790 how to knit did they know that? 93 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,840 Lauren Brennan: Yeah. Well, it was funny. I said, Oh, I used to 94 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:38,990 knit you know, so I had shared that, but it had been many, many 95 00:05:38,990 --> 00:05:43,850 years. But I was always pretty pretty. My hands are really, I 96 00:05:43,850 --> 00:05:46,670 think, engaged with a certain part of my brain. So I think I 97 00:05:46,670 --> 00:05:50,000 was always pretty handy. And some, you know, I think knitting 98 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,960 is not for everyone, but some people are really driven by 99 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,530 handwork. And I think that that ignites a certain part of our 100 00:05:57,530 --> 00:06:01,430 brains. And, you know, really, scientifically, it's proven to 101 00:06:01,430 --> 00:06:08,090 be a really great tool for a lot of people to, to regulate their, 102 00:06:08,870 --> 00:06:12,440 your hands, actually, there's a book by Frank Wilson, called The 103 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:17,780 Hand, and it talks about how your hand is connected to 60% of 104 00:06:17,780 --> 00:06:21,890 your brain activity, which if you think about the the, the 105 00:06:21,890 --> 00:06:24,680 activity that goes on in your brain, I mean, 60% is pretty 106 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,130 significant. So if you're able to ignite that much of your 107 00:06:28,130 --> 00:06:33,080 brain with bilateral knitting movements, you're really able to 108 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:38,030 bring yourself out of pain responses, you're able to bring 109 00:06:38,030 --> 00:06:43,190 yourself down and regulate all of the neurotransmitters that 110 00:06:43,190 --> 00:06:47,030 are igniting in us every day, and some are good and some are 111 00:06:47,030 --> 00:06:52,880 bad. So I'm excited that I, whenever I can teach someone to 112 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:57,140 knit when they're facing any sort of pressure, or stress or 113 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:01,010 or give them that tool ahead of that point, I think it's it's 114 00:07:01,010 --> 00:07:07,100 such a benefit for the long term, you know, advances that go 115 00:07:07,100 --> 00:07:11,750 on within our, within our mental health, and also just in the 116 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:17,930 Mia Hobbs: And, obviously, now you're involved with Project net 117 00:07:11,780 --> 00:07:14,690 neuroplasticity of our brain? Yeah. 118 00:07:17,930 --> 00:07:20,600 Well, and that's something you're doing for a living. But I 119 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:25,010 wonder for you personally, when that link first dawned on you, 120 00:07:25,010 --> 00:07:28,520 or when you first experienced that as something that knitting 121 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,320 was not just doing something with your hands, but it was 122 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,470 actually helping on a psychological level? Yeah. 123 00:07:33,860 --> 00:07:37,010 Lauren Brennan: That is a really great question. I was thinking 124 00:07:37,010 --> 00:07:40,460 about the, the title of your, you know, the title of your 125 00:07:40,460 --> 00:07:44,630 podcast is why why you knit? Yeah, why I knit. And I feel 126 00:07:44,630 --> 00:07:49,460 like I knit because I have to which it may sound very extreme 127 00:07:49,460 --> 00:07:50,660 or overstated, 128 00:07:50,900 --> 00:07:51,620 Mia Hobbs: not to me. 129 00:07:52,110 --> 00:07:55,470 Lauren Brennan: Not to you good. But I really believe that it 130 00:07:55,470 --> 00:08:00,300 helps bring me back to a baseline. It provides just an 131 00:08:00,330 --> 00:08:04,530 overall sense of calm and well being. I think it took me a 132 00:08:04,530 --> 00:08:09,870 while to realise that these are proven benefits scientifically. 133 00:08:10,950 --> 00:08:15,660 You know, I, I shake my head now thinking, of course, it lowers 134 00:08:15,660 --> 00:08:19,230 my blood pressure, I can really feel that. Yeah. And it took me 135 00:08:19,230 --> 00:08:22,830 a while to make the connection between the scientific evidence. 136 00:08:22,860 --> 00:08:28,080 And what Project Knitwell tries to do is provide more outlets 137 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,070 for research, to give people more of a mindset that this is 138 00:08:32,070 --> 00:08:37,260 actually a tool for well being and a tool for wellness and not 139 00:08:37,260 --> 00:08:42,960 just a luxurious hobby, or, you know, an opportunity to unwind. 140 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:48,450 It's just really recentering and and rebalancing those chemicals 141 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,070 in your brain and giving you a sense of satisfaction. At the 142 00:08:53,070 --> 00:08:56,430 same time. I think there are so many activities that can 143 00:08:56,430 --> 00:09:00,630 rebalance our brain like meditation, and yoga and all of 144 00:09:00,630 --> 00:09:05,190 these other activities that other people find as releases. 145 00:09:05,490 --> 00:09:09,840 But I think that knitting has the added benefit of something a 146 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:14,730 presentable at the end, a gift that you can give someone or 147 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:19,110 something that you can have as a tangible piece. Sentimental 148 00:09:19,110 --> 00:09:23,910 piece, too. I love to knit on trips. And it to me that is my 149 00:09:23,910 --> 00:09:28,530 souvenir of the trip. Yeah, you know, it's a memory that I hold. 150 00:09:28,740 --> 00:09:31,890 You know, I remember where I made each of the shawls that I 151 00:09:31,890 --> 00:09:37,800 have, and I can I can keep track of the 17 sweaters I knit during 152 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:38,430 COVID 153 00:09:39,330 --> 00:09:41,100 Mia Hobbs: 17 That's impressive. 154 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:45,030 Lauren Brennan: I think of how absurd that is. but you know, I 155 00:09:45,030 --> 00:09:49,290 really genuinely was knitting because I had to It kept me 156 00:09:49,290 --> 00:09:53,970 going and, and when there was no other, no other sense of 157 00:09:53,970 --> 00:09:57,960 satisfaction, I always had my knitting and that day, you know, 158 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,900 every day that I could cast something off was the day where 159 00:10:00,900 --> 00:10:03,420 I felt particularly satisfied. So yeah. 160 00:10:04,020 --> 00:10:06,960 Mia Hobbs: And how about once you've finished the thing? It 161 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,810 sounds like you do keep that kind of relationship with the 162 00:10:09,810 --> 00:10:10,530 object? 163 00:10:10,660 --> 00:10:14,890 Lauren Brennan: Yes, I agree. I think that even when you give 164 00:10:14,890 --> 00:10:18,340 something as a gift, or maybe especially as you give something 165 00:10:18,340 --> 00:10:23,650 as a gift, it becomes a really sentimental piece of you. And 166 00:10:23,650 --> 00:10:27,280 it's funny, I think I, you know, I, I don't always give knitted 167 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,210 gifts to other knitters. So sometimes people don't quite get 168 00:10:31,510 --> 00:10:35,260 how much has gone into the item you're sharing with them. And 169 00:10:35,470 --> 00:10:38,020 that can be challenging. Sometimes you want to make sure 170 00:10:38,020 --> 00:10:42,430 that you're giving the gift to someone that that gets it, you 171 00:10:42,430 --> 00:10:46,960 know, they they understand the, the effort and the you know, the 172 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:52,480 feeling that went into that is, I think is important. But I 173 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,750 yeah, I keep I keep all of my knits, you feel like you have 174 00:10:55,750 --> 00:10:59,740 quite a few items that have a sentimental attachment to or 175 00:10:59,750 --> 00:11:03,740 Mia Hobbs: Yeah, definitely. And I think in a in a similar way to 176 00:11:03,740 --> 00:11:10,310 you actually. And I think I have grown into my the way in which 177 00:11:10,310 --> 00:11:14,540 I've used knitting deliberately to help me and I think I did it 178 00:11:14,540 --> 00:11:18,320 because, you know, I started doing it, my mum suggested it as 179 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,790 a way of managing kind of exam stress, when I started my 180 00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:24,950 training, because she'd met someone else who'd learned to 181 00:11:24,950 --> 00:11:27,650 Brickley. And she thought I needed to do something that was 182 00:11:27,650 --> 00:11:31,670 unrelated to psychology. So she said, Why don't you learn to 183 00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:35,810 knit or relearn I've learned as a kid, and it kind of took off 184 00:11:35,810 --> 00:11:39,350 from there, really, but it has taken me a while to really think 185 00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:43,070 about the many ways that it has helped me. And I think now I 186 00:11:43,070 --> 00:11:47,360 deliberately choose projects for significant moments or 187 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,920 transitions, like when I left working in the NHS, the National 188 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,770 Health Service here, that was a big thing in terms of my career. 189 00:11:54,770 --> 00:11:58,100 And I felt like I needed a big project to take me through that 190 00:11:58,100 --> 00:12:01,370 transition. So I started a particular shawl that I'd been 191 00:12:01,370 --> 00:12:04,310 kind of planning to knit and that was a project. But now I 192 00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:07,550 still have it and associated with that transition in my life 193 00:12:07,550 --> 00:12:10,340 Lauren Brennan: That's so wonderful. Yes, yes, I love that 194 00:12:10,340 --> 00:12:14,960 you use the word deliberate, because I do think it can be 195 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,770 really a something that you think about. And I think 196 00:12:18,770 --> 00:12:22,430 knitters really are deliberate in a lot of what we do. And I 197 00:12:22,430 --> 00:12:26,330 think that that's a good, that's a really good word to describe 198 00:12:26,330 --> 00:12:30,200 kind of the practical approach to a new project and, and 199 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,830 thinking of it as something that's deliberately improving 200 00:12:33,830 --> 00:12:38,210 your wellness and, you know, helping you and driving you 201 00:12:38,210 --> 00:12:40,910 towards a sense of accomplishment that you wouldn't 202 00:12:40,910 --> 00:12:43,940 necessarily have in other things. And, and also, like you 203 00:12:43,940 --> 00:12:46,610 mentioned, it can be a distraction, you know, it can be 204 00:12:46,610 --> 00:12:50,900 a way to get to pull yourself out of something that may be all 205 00:12:50,900 --> 00:12:54,470 consuming and it might be better to be more balanced about it. 206 00:12:55,530 --> 00:12:57,300 Mia Hobbs: It'd be really helpful to hear about Project 207 00:12:57,330 --> 00:13:01,800 Knitwell, and how that started and about your involvement. 208 00:13:02,050 --> 00:13:05,140 Lauren Brennan: Absolutely. So project net well has been a 209 00:13:05,140 --> 00:13:10,270 formal nonprofit since 2010. So we're we just celebrated our 210 00:13:10,300 --> 00:13:15,520 11th birthday, which is long standing. Yes, thank you. We're 211 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:21,490 very excited to provide knitting as a wellness tool in hospital 212 00:13:21,490 --> 00:13:27,010 settings and community settings. Throughout our this region. We 213 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,640 have also expanded to providing virtual knitting instruction 214 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,630 through Knitwell in the cloud, which we're very excited to have 215 00:13:34,630 --> 00:13:38,290 more touch points and more opportunity for people to feel 216 00:13:38,290 --> 00:13:43,780 connected to knitting. We have found that we've taught over 217 00:13:43,780 --> 00:13:49,480 6000 knitters, new knitters have been born. Yeah, which I think 218 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,860 is really powerful. And we're really reaching them primarily 219 00:13:53,860 --> 00:13:58,240 at the point where they are most stressed. So we work with 220 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,500 patients, we work with their caregivers, people that are 221 00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:07,780 primarily waiting, and they may need something that pulls them 222 00:14:07,780 --> 00:14:11,830 out of their patient status, right. So everything they deal 223 00:14:11,830 --> 00:14:15,160 with in the day has to do with their illness. And if we can 224 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,970 bring in knitting as a distraction or as something that 225 00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:25,240 can provide them a sense of calm, to soothe them and comfort 226 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,650 them in that moment. That's really our ultimate goal. We 227 00:14:29,650 --> 00:14:34,840 have our mission is knitting with a purpose for comfort, 228 00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:41,200 wellness and community. And I think of comfort as that point 229 00:14:41,260 --> 00:14:44,830 of stress. So we come in and we swoop in when they're actually 230 00:14:44,830 --> 00:14:49,750 in the hospital receiving treatment for cancer, and we're 231 00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:54,640 providing it out that point as a comfort, but wellness. I think 232 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:58,450 of that as a preventative measure so we're trying to reach 233 00:14:58,450 --> 00:15:03,460 people before For they hit a point of stress, so that they 234 00:15:03,460 --> 00:15:06,730 can build their parachute, if you will, they can have knitting 235 00:15:06,730 --> 00:15:11,980 as part of their mental health toolkits, that so when they do 236 00:15:11,980 --> 00:15:16,510 have a crisis moment, they can turn to knitting to stabilise 237 00:15:16,510 --> 00:15:19,930 that and give them an opportunity to release that 238 00:15:19,930 --> 00:15:24,280 tension. And then community of course, is really the top of our 239 00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:28,660 of our house, that's the roof above all of it. And really 240 00:15:28,660 --> 00:15:33,100 community is what drives a lot of us to continue to knit. And 241 00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:37,990 building that sense of you think about the future and how 242 00:15:38,170 --> 00:15:42,820 knitting can provide a sense of well being among senior citizens 243 00:15:42,820 --> 00:15:46,870 that come together and knitting circles young people too not not 244 00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:51,100 just everyone that comes together and knits provides a 245 00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:54,250 really strong sense of community, which I think is a 246 00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:56,170 really wonderful piece of the pie. 247 00:15:56,460 --> 00:15:58,740 Mia Hobbs: So most of the people you're working with, are they 248 00:15:58,770 --> 00:16:01,950 new to knitting or some of the people who have have knitted 249 00:16:01,950 --> 00:16:02,910 previously, 250 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,540 Lauren Brennan: we work with both, I would say primarily, 251 00:16:06,540 --> 00:16:09,750 we're teaching new knitters, there are quite a few people 252 00:16:09,750 --> 00:16:13,350 that will say, Oh, I, I learned from my grandmother when I was 253 00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:16,680 young. Yeah, but I haven't knit in a really long time. So 254 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,580 sometimes we're catching them back up to speed. But I would 255 00:16:20,580 --> 00:16:23,520 say that the people that find it most rewarding are those that 256 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,820 may have never tried it. And they think, Oh, I'm not sure if 257 00:16:26,820 --> 00:16:32,250 I'll be good at this, or I'm not that great with my hands. But if 258 00:16:32,250 --> 00:16:37,380 they can overcome that, they find that we've found that they 259 00:16:37,380 --> 00:16:41,490 find the most satisfaction from it. In the end that perseverance 260 00:16:41,730 --> 00:16:45,150 is really powerful. You know, you release so much dopamine 261 00:16:45,150 --> 00:16:50,280 when you feel that rush of Oh, I really was able to overcome 262 00:16:50,460 --> 00:16:54,420 something that I wasn't certain I would be good at that. I think 263 00:16:54,450 --> 00:16:57,360 a lot of children I know you work with a lot of children, do 264 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,060 you feel that they have that sense of accomplishment? Like 265 00:17:00,060 --> 00:17:02,880 they weren't sure if they could do it yet, but they were able to 266 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,230 Mia Hobbs: yeah I really do and really feeling kind of proud of 267 00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:13,670 themselves when they've achieved something new and showing it off 268 00:17:13,670 --> 00:17:18,170 to other people. And so yeah, really strong sense of pride. I 269 00:17:18,170 --> 00:17:20,870 suppose it's something I still feel like I get out of knitting 270 00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:24,680 that when I do a new like recently, I've been knitting a 271 00:17:24,950 --> 00:17:28,130 hat, which has got very unusual construction. I don't know if 272 00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:32,150 you know Woolly Wormhead who designs these amazing hats that 273 00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:33,470 are knitted sideways. 274 00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:37,520 Lauren Brennan: How fun. Wow, I have one right here. It's one of 275 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,990 my favourites because it covers my ears. Like at the this is the 276 00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:45,680 yes, she has she has the break in back it's really wonderful. 277 00:17:45,740 --> 00:17:50,540 Mia Hobbs: Oh, that's beautiful. And so I'm knitting the Azula I 278 00:17:50,540 --> 00:17:55,250 think it is. So from the elemental collection, but it's a 279 00:17:55,310 --> 00:17:58,700 provisional cast on, which is not something I've tried many 280 00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:02,450 times and certainly not ever successfully I'm going to say 281 00:18:04,970 --> 00:18:07,880 with a crochet hook. And I mastered that. And then it was a 282 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,760 different, very different looking pattern that I had to 283 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,520 learn how to read. And that involved a lot of going back 284 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,160 over the first few rows and trying to figure out where it 285 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,730 was I'd gone wrong with the short rows. And then I got it 286 00:18:19,730 --> 00:18:23,900 and I figured out why. And I still got that boost of oh, I've 287 00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:27,500 achieved something new. So even 15 years down the line of 288 00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:28,370 knitting every day. 289 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,360 Lauren Brennan: Yes, and that actually is the most the best 290 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:36,450 part about knitting, there's always more yeah, there's always 291 00:18:36,450 --> 00:18:40,200 more to strive towards and to try out. And there's always 292 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,740 little quirky things that you may have forgotten that you 293 00:18:43,740 --> 00:18:47,970 could go back to or, but I do feel like it's always expanding 294 00:18:47,970 --> 00:18:52,650 and, and also the fundamental, just repetitive movements, even 295 00:18:52,650 --> 00:18:58,230 regardless of the challenges are really calming and are able to 296 00:18:58,470 --> 00:19:01,080 help people get back to baseline also 297 00:19:01,450 --> 00:19:03,640 Mia Hobbs: are you teaching people individually or in 298 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:04,450 groups? 299 00:19:05,020 --> 00:19:07,960 Lauren Brennan: We primarily teach one on one, we have found 300 00:19:07,990 --> 00:19:11,590 that that connection is when we're most successful, and part 301 00:19:11,590 --> 00:19:17,200 of it is it's challenging to follow along without some some 302 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,800 sort of personal connection. We have occasionally taught in a 303 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:25,390 larger group setting. We have groups of nurses, for instance, 304 00:19:25,390 --> 00:19:29,830 that we can come together in a sort of a professional 305 00:19:29,830 --> 00:19:33,550 development workshop to give them an opportunity to learn 306 00:19:33,550 --> 00:19:36,580 what is knitting all about how would it you know, can they they 307 00:19:36,580 --> 00:19:40,270 can give it a try in a group setting. And we'll bounce 308 00:19:40,270 --> 00:19:42,460 through you know, we'll have two or three volunteers that can 309 00:19:42,460 --> 00:19:46,180 bounce around the room and help out. But when we are faced with 310 00:19:46,180 --> 00:19:50,320 folks that are in a stressful situation, part of the benefit 311 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,950 is really the conversation that you're having with them. And 312 00:19:53,950 --> 00:19:57,490 it's not that you're approaching it as an art therapist, you're 313 00:19:57,490 --> 00:20:01,690 not there for therapy. You're just They're to give them a 314 00:20:01,690 --> 00:20:06,580 chance to feel like they can have a normal human conversation 315 00:20:06,820 --> 00:20:10,120 that doesn't have anything to do with their illness or whatever 316 00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:15,250 stress they're facing. We work with a group of Afghan refugees 317 00:20:15,370 --> 00:20:18,790 who don't actually speak English yet, and they're learning 318 00:20:18,790 --> 00:20:23,440 English, but the presence of us and being able to show them with 319 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:28,210 our hands, and both of our hands working in unison, just being 320 00:20:28,210 --> 00:20:32,290 there together, and they come back with these glorious scarves 321 00:20:32,290 --> 00:20:35,260 that are taller than they are, I have this great picture of one 322 00:20:35,260 --> 00:20:39,460 of them standing with this enormous scarf that's almost as 323 00:20:39,460 --> 00:20:44,380 tall as she is. And she was so proud to come back the week 324 00:20:44,380 --> 00:20:47,380 after she learned to knit with this giant scarf that she had 325 00:20:47,380 --> 00:20:51,490 been so productive with. And so she was immediately a brand new 326 00:20:51,490 --> 00:20:55,090 knitter, yes. And we immediately gave her more yarn. 327 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,710 Mia Hobbs: Wow. So she's really run with it. What's the kind of 328 00:20:59,710 --> 00:21:03,100 feedback you get from some of your clients from Project 329 00:21:03,130 --> 00:21:03,160 Knitwell 330 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,010 Lauren Brennan: Well, yeah, that's a great question I, we've 331 00:21:06,010 --> 00:21:10,330 really reached out to quite a few younger folks that we're 332 00:21:10,330 --> 00:21:14,260 really trying to figure out ways to make them feel connected with 333 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,610 what really is truly not a grandmother's hobby anymore. I 334 00:21:18,610 --> 00:21:21,610 mean, it's really ridiculous to think of it that way. And we 335 00:21:21,610 --> 00:21:26,920 have so many young knitters at a school for children with 336 00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:31,570 emotional challenges. We started running a summer camp there a 337 00:21:31,570 --> 00:21:35,650 few years ago, and now we're there all year. And the group of 338 00:21:35,650 --> 00:21:40,510 children that join us are really primarily teenagers are actually 339 00:21:40,510 --> 00:21:44,080 almost all boys, which is interesting. And they do not 340 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,940 have any mindset for girl or boy crafts, or hobbies. And I think 341 00:21:48,940 --> 00:21:52,930 that's just wonderful. But the feedback that we get from, from 342 00:21:52,930 --> 00:21:56,380 those students, and also from the nursing students that we're 343 00:21:56,380 --> 00:22:01,030 working with, at the collegiate level, they are telling us, you 344 00:22:01,030 --> 00:22:05,050 know, I'm spending a lot less time on my phone, I'm not 345 00:22:05,050 --> 00:22:11,020 scrolling, I can check out of all of that, video games, all of 346 00:22:11,020 --> 00:22:17,230 that they can, instead use their hands in a niche and really find 347 00:22:17,230 --> 00:22:21,040 another outlet that's really timeless. And I think giving 348 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:26,050 them other benefits that you know, beyond what they would get 349 00:22:26,050 --> 00:22:31,180 if they were just reading or doing athletics or other things, 350 00:22:31,180 --> 00:22:34,210 there's another layer to knitting that they wouldn't 351 00:22:34,210 --> 00:22:37,480 necessarily get if they were always distracted on their 352 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:42,310 phones, and it's so great to just have a chance to, I find 353 00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:46,690 that I put down my phone and check out very easily when I'm 354 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:53,170 in a in a knitting and knitting. You know, in a I'm in a 355 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,880 different mindset with when I knit, and it helps me really be 356 00:22:58,210 --> 00:23:02,260 removed from the rest of the worries that might be out there 357 00:23:02,260 --> 00:23:07,060 on, you know, lingering on the news channels on my phone and so 358 00:23:07,060 --> 00:23:07,480 forth. 359 00:23:07,770 --> 00:23:10,110 Mia Hobbs: Yeah, so it feels like a more calming and 360 00:23:10,110 --> 00:23:14,040 grounding activity for you. Absolutely. And I guess you also 361 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,040 have something to show for it, unlike an hour of scrolling on 362 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:18,660 Instagram, right? 363 00:23:18,750 --> 00:23:21,600 Lauren Brennan: Absolutely, yes. And you have something that 364 00:23:21,630 --> 00:23:25,230 you've, you've been able to put out into the world, you know, 365 00:23:25,230 --> 00:23:30,480 it's something that, you know, in the ancient world, I mean, 366 00:23:30,510 --> 00:23:34,920 there were always people working with their hands. And And also, 367 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:40,980 if you think about worry, stones, and beads and things 368 00:23:40,980 --> 00:23:44,670 that people will use there, they'll have a repetitive 369 00:23:44,670 --> 00:23:48,690 movement with their fingers. And there are so many cultures that 370 00:23:48,690 --> 00:23:53,640 have that type of tool. And I think knitting really is, is 371 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,540 that for so many people with that repetitive movements. I 372 00:23:57,540 --> 00:24:02,220 think of it as meditation with my hands. So even though I'm not 373 00:24:02,220 --> 00:24:05,940 really that great at just meditating, yeah, I do think I 374 00:24:05,940 --> 00:24:09,810 get the same benefit or the same feeling that I would get 375 00:24:09,810 --> 00:24:13,710 meditating when I'm knitting, a very repetitive pattern that I 376 00:24:13,710 --> 00:24:19,500 don't have to necessarily pay attention to a chart or yeah, 377 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,190 there's two types of knitting, I always say I've always had, I 378 00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:26,670 always have at least two projects, the repetitive, 379 00:24:26,730 --> 00:24:31,980 easygoing, portable bag that I can just grab and go to the 380 00:24:31,980 --> 00:24:36,120 swimming pool and knit while my kids are swimming. And then I've 381 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:41,010 got the more complicated colour work pattern that I'm really 382 00:24:41,010 --> 00:24:44,460 focused in on and that's when I need the ultimate distraction. 383 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,480 And that's really what that that more complicated pattern can 384 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,620 somehow have a different set of rewards in the long run too 385 00:24:52,650 --> 00:24:55,860 Mia Hobbs: Yeah, I'm exactly the same with those two categories. 386 00:24:56,130 --> 00:24:57,150 Lauren Brennan: Are you Oh, good, 387 00:24:57,150 --> 00:25:00,780 Mia Hobbs: exactly the same because I think sometimes Yeah, 388 00:25:00,810 --> 00:25:03,690 like you said, you want to do something meditative almost with 389 00:25:03,690 --> 00:25:08,160 your hands. And I find, certainly for me, I focus better 390 00:25:08,190 --> 00:25:11,640 on something if I was attending a zoom training or something 391 00:25:11,910 --> 00:25:16,050 where I had to sit still and listen, I would want to knit and 392 00:25:16,050 --> 00:25:18,870 that would help me focus. And that could be, you know, 393 00:25:18,870 --> 00:25:23,910 knitting lots of stockinette in the round. And, you know, could 394 00:25:23,910 --> 00:25:27,240 be a sock or a hat or something. And then I would like to have 395 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,540 something more complicated, like that hat pattern where I do need 396 00:25:30,540 --> 00:25:33,600 to focus I need to count and look at a chart, but that's for, 397 00:25:33,810 --> 00:25:36,660 I call it active relaxation, where my whole brain needs to be 398 00:25:36,660 --> 00:25:41,250 busy doing something in order to allow it to turn off from other 399 00:25:41,250 --> 00:25:42,210 stressful things. 400 00:25:43,170 --> 00:25:47,370 Lauren Brennan: Yeah, active relaxation. Right? Yes, that it? 401 00:25:47,370 --> 00:25:50,880 That's a perfect way to describe it, I think. Yeah, 402 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,350 Mia Hobbs: I used to go to salsa dancing lessons. And I noticed 403 00:25:54,350 --> 00:25:58,580 that actually, there were loads of doctors at salsa. And I was 404 00:25:58,580 --> 00:26:02,900 thinking, Why are they all here? And I think, I think I noticed 405 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:05,420 them talking about it. Like they couldn't possibly think about 406 00:26:05,420 --> 00:26:08,840 what is a stressful and busy job. When they were trying to 407 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,330 think about doing something different with their hands and 408 00:26:11,330 --> 00:26:13,970 their, you know, their arms and their hands and their feet and 409 00:26:13,970 --> 00:26:16,130 listening to music all at the same time. They were just 410 00:26:16,130 --> 00:26:19,040 mutually exclusive. And I suppose I feel like that about 411 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,490 complicated patterns that, you know, you just can't think about 412 00:26:22,490 --> 00:26:23,690 other things at the same time. 413 00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:26,960 Lauren Brennan: Right? Absolutely. And I think it's 414 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,320 even true in more extreme cases, where when people are facing 415 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,430 pain in their body, you know, actual physical pain, it can 416 00:26:34,430 --> 00:26:39,410 really help pull people back, it really pulls your brain in a 417 00:26:39,410 --> 00:26:43,280 different direction. And so I think physically, and 418 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,490 scientifically, that has really been proven for so many folks 419 00:26:46,490 --> 00:26:50,810 that you can really reorganise those synapses in your brain. 420 00:26:50,810 --> 00:26:54,680 And I, I feel very strongly that there's so much research 421 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:59,390 potential to expand on and Project Knitwell really cares 422 00:26:59,390 --> 00:27:03,650 about figuring out ways that we can study more of these benefits 423 00:27:03,650 --> 00:27:08,060 that we all already feel. Yeah. And we already know, but how do 424 00:27:08,060 --> 00:27:10,850 we prove it is the real question. 425 00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:15,940 Mia Hobbs: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I would love to 426 00:27:15,940 --> 00:27:19,660 hear about a significant project for you, Lauren, can you think 427 00:27:19,660 --> 00:27:22,270 of a significant knitting project could be one of yours or 428 00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:23,590 one from project knitwell, 429 00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:26,720 Lauren Brennan: that is a really great question. And I 430 00:27:26,750 --> 00:27:32,210 immediately think of a sweater that I knit for my husband, 431 00:27:32,210 --> 00:27:35,480 which was really It started really as a labour of love. It 432 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,530 was the dude sweater from The Big Lebowski, which is a movie 433 00:27:40,220 --> 00:27:45,080 that it's Who is it? Jeff Bridges is in it. And it's a 434 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:50,180 it's kind of an edgy, quirky indie type movie, but it has a 435 00:27:50,180 --> 00:27:56,390 very recognisable sweater that has a very unique pattern to it. 436 00:27:56,420 --> 00:28:00,710 I think it might actually be a Native American pattern. So 437 00:28:00,710 --> 00:28:04,460 it's, I can I could show it to you. But it was the first 438 00:28:04,460 --> 00:28:09,860 project that I I knit in the round, okay. The knitters dude 439 00:28:09,860 --> 00:28:15,800 is by Andrea Rangel, I believe. And she, it required a steek 440 00:28:16,130 --> 00:28:21,440 which is cutting into your knitting. And this was one of 441 00:28:21,470 --> 00:28:25,370 the largest projects I had ever done. And it had all of these 442 00:28:25,370 --> 00:28:30,410 gigantic colour work floats, which are really challenging for 443 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:37,670 colour work knitters to catch. And I, when I cut into that 444 00:28:37,670 --> 00:28:43,400 project, I thought, well, here we go, this is gonna sink this 445 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,810 ship is either gonna sink or sail. And I still think of that 446 00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:48,020 moment 447 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,420 Mia Hobbs: by that point, you've knitted the entire thing. And 448 00:28:50,420 --> 00:28:51,350 then we're gonna cut right downt the centre of it 449 00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:56,490 Lauren Brennan: saying, yes, hours and hours of work, months, 450 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,230 months of work. And then I was getting my sharpest scissors out 451 00:29:01,230 --> 00:29:05,100 and I was getting ready to cut down the centre. And luckily, I 452 00:29:05,100 --> 00:29:08,340 did set up the camera, I had the mindset of I need to show 453 00:29:08,340 --> 00:29:11,580 someone and I have really great knitting friends and I said, I'm 454 00:29:11,580 --> 00:29:14,610 going to at least show someone that I'm, I'm cutting into this. 455 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,320 If the, if the ship sinks, at least I'll have a memory of the 456 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:25,470 ship sinking. So I, I have a time lapse of me cutting cutting 457 00:29:25,470 --> 00:29:29,580 into it. And I had done every reinforcement, I did the crochet 458 00:29:29,580 --> 00:29:33,540 reinforcement, I run the knitting, I'd run the sewing 459 00:29:33,540 --> 00:29:37,260 machine up and down the line. So I was pretty confident that it 460 00:29:37,260 --> 00:29:42,330 wouldn't sink completely. But it could have partially, you know, 461 00:29:42,330 --> 00:29:49,230 there could be a partial failure but you know what, it was really 462 00:29:49,230 --> 00:29:53,370 exhilarating when it worked out and you know, the, the collar 463 00:29:53,370 --> 00:29:56,640 worked out I ended up making a lot of modifications to the 464 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,390 pattern because it didn't quite fit. There were more many 465 00:30:00,390 --> 00:30:03,810 iterations I wanted to have it ready for Christmas and it was 466 00:30:03,810 --> 00:30:08,460 too long and it didn't have a I had a really awkward collar. And 467 00:30:08,670 --> 00:30:11,220 so I didn't have it ready for Christmas, but I think I had it 468 00:30:11,220 --> 00:30:15,630 ready by the end of January I had. I also not only did I cut 469 00:30:15,630 --> 00:30:18,420 down the middle, but I also chopped about six inches off the 470 00:30:18,420 --> 00:30:23,130 bottom because it had become a more of a duster than a 471 00:30:23,130 --> 00:30:28,440 cardigan. Men, or at least my husband wasn't as interested in 472 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:34,320 a duster length. Yeah. So it was an adventure. And it definitely 473 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:39,120 felt memorable to me. And I think that it was, it was also a 474 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,960 sense of accomplishment. And even though, you know, he 475 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,020 occasionally wears it, I probably it doesn't, it doesn't 476 00:30:46,020 --> 00:30:49,530 fit quite right. It fits pretty well, there's some good pictures 477 00:30:49,530 --> 00:30:55,260 of him in it. But I think that it's it was still well worth the 478 00:30:55,260 --> 00:31:01,320 time spent and the rewarding feeling that I overcame a lot to 479 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,960 persevere. I you know, it could still be sitting in a bag 480 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,820 somewhere, but it's wearable. So 481 00:31:06,450 --> 00:31:08,670 Mia Hobbs: it sounds like it's almost like the knitters version 482 00:31:08,670 --> 00:31:10,170 of skydiving or something. 483 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,120 Lauren Brennan: Absolutely 484 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,500 Mia Hobbs: adrenaline fueled. 485 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,040 Lauren Brennan: yes it was I adrenaline is right. I really 486 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,890 did feel that way. And you know, there was a certain high when it 487 00:31:19,890 --> 00:31:21,360 didn't completely unravel. 488 00:31:21,390 --> 00:31:25,770 Mia Hobbs: Yeah, sure. A bit of magic. I'm interested in. And 489 00:31:25,770 --> 00:31:28,770 you mentioned a lot of kind of, I don't want to call them 490 00:31:28,770 --> 00:31:31,740 failures, but a lot of challenges along the way in that 491 00:31:31,740 --> 00:31:33,900 project. And I think that's something many knitters will 492 00:31:33,930 --> 00:31:38,190 relate to the idea of, you know, as I say, my knitting group, you 493 00:31:38,190 --> 00:31:41,010 know, none of us get to be an experienced knitter without 494 00:31:41,010 --> 00:31:44,460 having to unravel very many things. Possibly even most 495 00:31:44,460 --> 00:31:47,580 things get unravelled at some point to some extent. I'm 496 00:31:47,580 --> 00:31:51,630 interested in, I don't know how that feels for you what musings 497 00:31:51,630 --> 00:31:54,750 you have on that in terms of whether you've learned anything 498 00:31:54,750 --> 00:31:56,880 from it for the rest of your life, or 499 00:31:57,650 --> 00:32:01,340 Lauren Brennan: right? Well, I'm a big believer in, there's a 500 00:32:01,340 --> 00:32:04,760 quote that says like, the person who doesn't make mistakes is 501 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:09,800 unlikely to make anything. I think Paul Arden said that, 502 00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:14,450 okay, I think that knitting is really all about making 503 00:32:14,450 --> 00:32:19,280 mistakes, every mistake is actually a technique. And when I 504 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,690 teach someone to knit, I'm usually explaining that to them 505 00:32:23,690 --> 00:32:26,390 right off the back. And I'm saying that right off the bat 506 00:32:26,390 --> 00:32:29,660 that, you know, every time you pull the yarn to the front by 507 00:32:29,660 --> 00:32:32,450 accident, that's actually a technique that you'll use later 508 00:32:32,450 --> 00:32:36,020 on. And that's a relief in a way that they can think of they can 509 00:32:36,020 --> 00:32:40,100 think of everything as if you make a mistake in a pattern, you 510 00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:43,130 know, if you make that mistake repeatedly, it's just a new 511 00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:44,090 technique, right? 512 00:32:44,780 --> 00:32:45,650 Mia Hobbs: Or a new pattern 513 00:32:45,780 --> 00:32:48,600 Lauren Brennan: or a new pattern. Yeah, so. So I think 514 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,370 that, you know, my feeling on how things go when you're 515 00:32:53,370 --> 00:32:56,400 knitting something, and, you know, sometimes projects need to 516 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,580 rest also, you know, if something is aggravating, 517 00:32:59,580 --> 00:33:04,140 there's no reason to, there's no reason to give it that 518 00:33:04,140 --> 00:33:07,020 aggravation in that moment. You know, don't give it don't give 519 00:33:07,020 --> 00:33:10,890 it that, you know, don't give it that level of attention in that 520 00:33:10,890 --> 00:33:14,850 moment. And just step back from it. I'm, I'm very good at 521 00:33:14,850 --> 00:33:19,860 letting my my WIPS or my work in progress. Yes, I'm good at 522 00:33:19,860 --> 00:33:23,940 letting them sit. And they don't taunt me the way they might 523 00:33:23,940 --> 00:33:27,780 taunt other people. Sometimes I, I find that some knitters with 524 00:33:27,810 --> 00:33:30,720 works in progress. They get really upset, like, Oh, I 525 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,600 haven't finished that yet. I need to finish it, I need to get 526 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,550 back to that. And I really think that it's okay to let them rest. 527 00:33:38,580 --> 00:33:42,390 Yeah. And I don't want them to taunt me or to make me feel like 528 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,320 I'm not accomplishing something by letting it sit for a little 529 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,890 while. And yeah, and sometimes it's just nice to come back to 530 00:33:49,890 --> 00:33:52,560 it later on. And I think that goes for a lot of things in our 531 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,740 mental health that you have to step back from them in order to 532 00:33:55,740 --> 00:34:00,450 gain a little bit of perspective on maybe you look, look more in 533 00:34:00,450 --> 00:34:03,510 depth on what other people did to make that pattern work for 534 00:34:03,510 --> 00:34:06,630 them. And I find that going and looking at other people's 535 00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:10,470 projects on Ravelry is helpful. You know, I could say, oh, well, 536 00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:12,930 they it looks like they have the same problem with the collar 537 00:34:12,930 --> 00:34:16,530 that I was having. How did they overcome it? Or what did they do 538 00:34:16,530 --> 00:34:20,550 differently? Or are looking at other cardigans, like when I was 539 00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:25,410 working on the dude, I looked for other ideas of what to do 540 00:34:25,410 --> 00:34:29,040 about the collar that may be less awkward. And I really just 541 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,160 invented my own collar that's totally different than the shawl 542 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,520 collar that's called for in the pattern, which really wasn't 543 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,150 working. So you know, there's ways to kind of get around and 544 00:34:39,150 --> 00:34:43,530 then that perseverance and it can be pretty powerful too. 545 00:34:43,950 --> 00:34:45,960 Mia Hobbs: Do you think it spills over into other areas of 546 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,420 your life? Do you think you've taken those things you've 547 00:34:48,420 --> 00:34:51,060 learned from knitting and helped you to be more I don't know, 548 00:34:51,060 --> 00:34:54,960 mindful of the process or able to tolerate mistakes in inverted 549 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,150 commas in other areas. 550 00:34:57,690 --> 00:35:00,780 Lauren Brennan: Yeah, I think so. I think I definitely feel 551 00:35:00,780 --> 00:35:05,250 like I'm a more patient person because of knitting. And I've 552 00:35:05,250 --> 00:35:10,890 always, I am very perseverent. I don't, I don't usually give up 553 00:35:10,890 --> 00:35:15,210 very easily. So I think that that's a piece that I take with 554 00:35:15,210 --> 00:35:19,530 me into other parts of my life. And I think it's a good skill to 555 00:35:19,530 --> 00:35:24,300 have or a good mindset to have that you can always keep trying. 556 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,260 Mia Hobbs: Yeah, I think it's made me more appreciative of the 557 00:35:28,260 --> 00:35:31,170 process. I think of other things like, you know, starting a 558 00:35:31,170 --> 00:35:34,200 business after I left the National Health Service, not 559 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,140 having to have figured it all out and got to the end result 560 00:35:37,140 --> 00:35:40,140 immediately. But to be able to think, no, I'm on a journey 561 00:35:40,170 --> 00:35:43,230 towards that. That might be hopefully where I'm headed, but 562 00:35:43,230 --> 00:35:45,930 it's alright to not have figured it all out on day one, right. 563 00:35:46,380 --> 00:35:48,960 Lauren Brennan: Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's the 564 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,950 beauty of a new project, right? There's always possibility and 565 00:35:53,100 --> 00:35:55,590 you can always take it in a different direction if you need 566 00:35:55,590 --> 00:35:55,980 to. 567 00:35:57,090 --> 00:36:00,120 Mia Hobbs: Yeah. Yeah.That's really helpful. I always ask 568 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,970 about a knitting high and a knitting low. I don't know what 569 00:36:02,970 --> 00:36:05,130 your thoughts are about that. Yes. Yes. 570 00:36:04,650 --> 00:36:07,504 Lauren Brennan: That's a fun question. Actually, I always 571 00:36:07,574 --> 00:36:11,960 think about one of my highs was really teaching my boys to knit 572 00:36:12,029 --> 00:36:16,346 when they were seven and 11. And I'll still occasionally many, 573 00:36:16,415 --> 00:36:20,384 many years later, find them knitting unprompted, which is 574 00:36:20,454 --> 00:36:24,631 really, it's I hope that they think back on their, you know, 575 00:36:24,700 --> 00:36:28,947 their, their mom being this very passionate knitter. And, you 576 00:36:29,017 --> 00:36:33,473 know, I'm sharing it with them. And I hope that at some point in 577 00:36:33,542 --> 00:36:37,720 their life, they can turn to it as a wellness tool. I really 578 00:36:37,789 --> 00:36:41,897 enjoy teaching other people to knit. And, you know, Project 579 00:36:41,966 --> 00:36:45,865 Knitwell, that's our main mission, our mission really is 580 00:36:45,935 --> 00:36:50,112 to figure out more outlets to give people the opportunity to 581 00:36:50,182 --> 00:36:54,081 try out knitting and to learn with quality materials and 582 00:36:54,150 --> 00:36:58,119 quality instruction that's really proven over the test of 583 00:36:58,188 --> 00:37:02,157 time that we're using what we think is the best method to 584 00:37:02,226 --> 00:37:06,612 teach new folks, I have a, prior to the pandemic I was, I had a 585 00:37:06,682 --> 00:37:11,068 group of neighbours and friends that would come over to knit at 586 00:37:11,138 --> 00:37:15,454 my house every other week. And it was such a great way to feel 587 00:37:15,524 --> 00:37:19,771 connected to each other. And we would do knit alongs Have you 588 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,670 ever done a knit along where you knit the same pattern, 589 00:37:23,810 --> 00:37:27,440 Mia Hobbs: I've done one with my mum and my sister actually, 590 00:37:29,420 --> 00:37:34,070 where we couldn't all be together. And I gave them a kind 591 00:37:34,070 --> 00:37:37,220 of I think it was supposed to be a sock set. You know, where you 592 00:37:37,220 --> 00:37:41,930 get a small skein of contrasting colour for the heels and the 593 00:37:41,930 --> 00:37:46,550 toes. But actually, we made cowls. So the idea was to own it 594 00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:47,210 the same 595 00:37:47,300 --> 00:37:49,490 Lauren Brennan: the same. Yeah. I love that. 596 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,650 Mia Hobbs: Because they're more practical for walking dogs 597 00:37:51,650 --> 00:37:53,690 because the dogs not going to grab hold the end of the scarf 598 00:37:54,830 --> 00:37:56,270 Lauren Brennan: true that's very true. 599 00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:59,180 Mia Hobbs: Yeah, so I think that's probably the only one 600 00:37:59,180 --> 00:38:01,430 I've done. And that was one we just I just made it up 601 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,810 Lauren Brennan: up. Yes. A personal Yeah. Well, sometimes 602 00:38:04,810 --> 00:38:08,560 that's the best because then you have complete control. One of 603 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,370 the knit alongs that I did with some friends of mine was it was 604 00:38:12,370 --> 00:38:17,950 a mystery knit along. Joji Locatelli the Starting Point, 605 00:38:17,980 --> 00:38:19,450 which is this gigantic, 606 00:38:19,450 --> 00:38:21,910 Mia Hobbs: yeah, that's what I knit when I left the NHS you 607 00:38:21,910 --> 00:38:25,540 actually, it was quite poignant that it was kind of two halves, 608 00:38:25,540 --> 00:38:28,210 which I saw was like the two halves of my career joining in 609 00:38:28,210 --> 00:38:28,750 the centre 610 00:38:28,750 --> 00:38:31,420 Lauren Brennan: coming together. Oh, I love that. It's so 611 00:38:31,420 --> 00:38:35,920 symbolic, right. So yeah, this is my insanely large starting 612 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:36,580 point, right? 613 00:38:36,580 --> 00:38:37,630 Mia Hobbs: It's beautiful 614 00:38:37,690 --> 00:38:40,120 Lauren Brennan: it just kept going and going, right? Yeah, 615 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,410 Wasn't it fun? Did you do it as a mystery? Like you did it right 616 00:38:44,410 --> 00:38:45,430 along with the pattern? 617 00:38:45,490 --> 00:38:48,160 Mia Hobbs: No, I didn't. And I did it late after everyone else 618 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,490 had done it. So I seen all of the clues. It wasn't a mystery, 619 00:38:51,490 --> 00:38:54,730 but actually, it's strangely in very similar colours to yours. 620 00:38:54,940 --> 00:38:57,700 Lauren Brennan: Oh, no kidding. Oh, that's fun. Oh, I'd love to 621 00:38:57,700 --> 00:39:01,660 see. Yeah, the funnest. the really fun part about this is we 622 00:39:01,660 --> 00:39:06,340 had no idea what shape it would be. We had no idea how the 623 00:39:06,340 --> 00:39:10,360 mystery would come together. And when when she said okay, now 624 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,530 start over and do another piece on the other side. We all shook 625 00:39:14,530 --> 00:39:18,700 our heads like oh, no, this can't be right. Yeah. It was 626 00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:21,340 really fun to have it unfold. Oh my goodness. 627 00:39:21,340 --> 00:39:22,180 Mia Hobbs: That's mine. 628 00:39:22,180 --> 00:39:25,720 Lauren Brennan: We have a matching set of starting points. 629 00:39:26,050 --> 00:39:27,490 That's interesting. 630 00:39:27,940 --> 00:39:30,460 Mia Hobbs: So it's kind of just to describe for people listening 631 00:39:30,460 --> 00:39:33,940 to the podcast who obviously can't see that. I guess mine is 632 00:39:33,940 --> 00:39:37,690 in shades of white and almost black and then shades of grey 633 00:39:37,690 --> 00:39:41,560 with a purple and yours Yeah, I think is quite similar 634 00:39:40,770 --> 00:39:44,387 Lauren Brennan: it's dark blue which kind of matches your black 635 00:39:44,464 --> 00:39:49,313 Yes. Some shades of kind of a a tealy purpley blue. So yeah, oh 636 00:39:49,390 --> 00:39:54,161 my goodness. Well, I just loved this pattern, everything about 637 00:39:54,238 --> 00:39:58,625 it. And my friends knitted knit it with me. So we all had 638 00:39:58,702 --> 00:40:03,243 different versions. And the gauge I mean, some people's are 639 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,861 even larger than mine I'm I you know, tight knitters, loose 640 00:40:07,938 --> 00:40:12,633 knitters everywhere in between and, and we've really I really 641 00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:17,328 enjoy the opportunity to come together with folks and knits. 642 00:40:17,405 --> 00:40:21,484 I've been to Rhinebeck, which was a really high in my 643 00:40:21,561 --> 00:40:26,332 knitting. Career, you know, in terms of being a knitter on the 644 00:40:26,409 --> 00:40:31,335 east coast in the United States going to Rhinebeck, which is New 645 00:40:31,412 --> 00:40:36,184 York sheep and wool festival is kind of the pinnacle of you're 646 00:40:36,261 --> 00:40:40,802 surrounded by people who are true believers in the power of 647 00:40:40,879 --> 00:40:45,420 knitting. Really. It's like a pilgrimage. Yeah, well, yeah. 648 00:40:46,110 --> 00:40:47,730 Mia Hobbs: And how about a knitting low? 649 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,890 Lauren Brennan: Oh, gosh, that's a tough question, because I do 650 00:40:51,890 --> 00:40:56,390 get so many highs from knitting. But I suppose I suppose there 651 00:40:56,390 --> 00:41:00,440 have been many times that I've had gauge issues with just a 652 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,130 beautiful yarn that I was very excited about that just didn't 653 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:09,200 knit up the way I hoped it would, it could get saggy or 654 00:41:09,230 --> 00:41:12,380 just kind of have a drape that wasn't really that appealing. 655 00:41:13,130 --> 00:41:16,040 But I think sometimes, you know, even when it doesn't come out, 656 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:21,080 as you expect, you can always reknit things, that's the beauty 657 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,880 of knitting, you can always pull it out again. And you can find a 658 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:31,010 greater reward in frogging it and then trying over and that's 659 00:41:31,010 --> 00:41:35,000 part of the, you know, and sometimes the biggest obstacles 660 00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:38,420 in knitting that I that I think about, I think I actually got a 661 00:41:38,420 --> 00:41:41,570 really strong dopamine kick from it, you know, I was really gonna 662 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:46,070 overcome it and, and move forward to a higher reward. And 663 00:41:46,370 --> 00:41:50,330 I think that whether you're a beginner knitter or an advanced 664 00:41:50,330 --> 00:41:53,450 knitter, it's really easy to feel that sense of 665 00:41:53,450 --> 00:41:59,030 accomplishment and, and I like to think of it as an opportunity 666 00:41:59,030 --> 00:42:03,710 to, to face a challenge that isn't, you know, it isn't life 667 00:42:03,710 --> 00:42:06,800 threatening, nothing bad is going to happen, but it gives 668 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,090 you a chance to feel like you were able to, to try something 669 00:42:11,090 --> 00:42:13,700 that may have been challenging and overcome it. Yeah, 670 00:42:13,780 --> 00:42:15,760 Mia Hobbs: I talked about that the kind of the idea of making 671 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,180 safe mistakes, like, yeah, you know, we struggle with doing 672 00:42:19,180 --> 00:42:21,940 things that might go wrong, I suppose. Generally, that can 673 00:42:21,940 --> 00:42:25,150 feel difficult, but I think it is, like you said, it's a way of 674 00:42:25,540 --> 00:42:28,030 doing something where you try something new, and probably 675 00:42:28,030 --> 00:42:31,120 there will be things that go wrong, but you can, unless you 676 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,210 get the scissors out, I always say, which was why the steek is 677 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,410 so challenging, you can unravel it. So it is a fairly safe way 678 00:42:38,410 --> 00:42:42,310 of making mistakes, and practising tolerating that, and 679 00:42:42,310 --> 00:42:43,420 overcoming that I suppse. 680 00:42:43,450 --> 00:42:47,530 Lauren Brennan: Right? Right. And I hope that I hope that my 681 00:42:47,530 --> 00:42:52,750 children, or even my friends see that when we overcome things 682 00:42:52,750 --> 00:42:56,020 together like that, they you know, that they see that that 683 00:42:56,020 --> 00:43:00,490 sense of safe, you know, safe mistakes really are powerful to 684 00:43:00,820 --> 00:43:04,930 give you a sense of resilience. And Project Knitwell really 685 00:43:04,930 --> 00:43:08,560 wants to provide folks that are facing that stressful situation, 686 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,580 a sense of hope, a sense that they are resilient, that they 687 00:43:12,580 --> 00:43:17,380 are fundamentally human. And they're, they're striving 688 00:43:17,380 --> 00:43:22,000 towards something that could be as simple as loops on a needle, 689 00:43:22,030 --> 00:43:26,740 right. But it doesn't have to be complicated and keeping things 690 00:43:26,770 --> 00:43:31,930 at the fundamental, simple level of, you know, those individual 691 00:43:31,930 --> 00:43:35,410 stitches that all come together into something really beautiful, 692 00:43:35,770 --> 00:43:40,690 is pretty powerful. And I I'm excited that when whenever 693 00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:45,220 someone new comes to our online, we have an online, knit two 694 00:43:45,220 --> 00:43:47,890 together community group, and when they come with a new 695 00:43:47,890 --> 00:43:51,940 project to share, you know, that sense of pride that they have, 696 00:43:51,940 --> 00:43:56,200 and showing it off and sharing it with someone that they've 697 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,560 just met on the internet, or they've just met in a hospital 698 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:04,210 waiting room, or any number of community settings that we've 699 00:44:04,210 --> 00:44:08,020 been able to interact with folks, I think it's a great 700 00:44:08,020 --> 00:44:13,150 equaliser and an opportunity for people to just focus on the 701 00:44:13,150 --> 00:44:18,550 texture of the yarn, the colour of the yarn. And the the beauty 702 00:44:18,550 --> 00:44:19,900 of that is so simple. 703 00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:23,490 Mia Hobbs: And I guess you know, maybe as adults, we don't get so 704 00:44:23,490 --> 00:44:27,690 many opportunities to do like, show and tell is something I've 705 00:44:27,690 --> 00:44:31,200 done or made. And I suppose kids are probably better at that 706 00:44:31,230 --> 00:44:34,350 because we encourage it in them and give them opportunities to 707 00:44:34,350 --> 00:44:36,900 do it. But guess it's not something that necessarily lands 708 00:44:36,900 --> 00:44:38,910 on your lap as an adult. 709 00:44:39,260 --> 00:44:42,890 Lauren Brennan: Yeah, I think we all need show and tell. Exactly. 710 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:43,790 Exactly. 711 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,980 Mia Hobbs: Yeah. So I generally end the interview Lauren with 712 00:44:46,980 --> 00:44:49,980 the question about what's the greatest gift knitting has given 713 00:44:49,980 --> 00:44:51,360 you for the rest of your life? 714 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,600 Lauren Brennan: Oh, goodness, oh my goodness. Well, that the 715 00:44:54,600 --> 00:45:00,690 greatest gift I think is really in the lesson of finding Finding 716 00:45:00,690 --> 00:45:04,860 something that grounds you, that gives you some just a sense of 717 00:45:04,860 --> 00:45:11,430 overall calm and well being. And if it's knitting, I hope that I 718 00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:15,180 hope that you can share that passion with me. But if it's 719 00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:19,410 something else, I, I just hope that everyone finds an outlet 720 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:25,080 that is as as powerfully rewarding for them as knitting 721 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:25,860 is for me. 722 00:45:26,860 --> 00:45:29,320 Mia Hobbs: Oh, that's great. Thank you very much. It's been 723 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,530 such a pleasure to talk to you. I'm sure there'll be people who 724 00:45:32,530 --> 00:45:35,680 want to hear more about Project Knitwell, or about you, where 725 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:36,880 can they find out about that? 726 00:45:37,330 --> 00:45:39,970 Lauren Brennan: Absolutely. We have a website, Project 727 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,650 Knitwell.org. And we're very excited to connect with folks. 728 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,730 We have a newsletter that you can subscribe to, that keeps you 729 00:45:48,730 --> 00:45:52,180 in touch with all of our happenings and Knit Well in the 730 00:45:52,180 --> 00:45:55,780 cloud is very powerful for us now, because it helps us connect 731 00:45:55,780 --> 00:45:59,920 with folks all over the world. And we're especially excited to 732 00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:04,840 have more volunteers that teach virtually, and we are, we're 733 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:09,370 here to train people in the methods that we've found to be 734 00:46:09,370 --> 00:46:14,980 tried and true. And we really feel that more boots on the 735 00:46:14,980 --> 00:46:18,940 ground in waiting rooms and hospitals and community groups, 736 00:46:19,270 --> 00:46:24,460 schools, teachers, we are so passionate about reaching out to 737 00:46:24,460 --> 00:46:28,510 as many communities so if you're a doctor or a nurse or a teacher 738 00:46:28,510 --> 00:46:32,800 that's facing burnout or feeling that compassion fatigue, we want 739 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,760 to help you we want to connect you to knitting, we want to find 740 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,220 a way to give you the opportunity to find out if 741 00:46:39,220 --> 00:46:43,450 knitting is right for you. So definitely reach out to connect 742 00:46:43,450 --> 00:46:49,630 with us. And I look forward to continuing to spread wellness 743 00:46:49,660 --> 00:46:52,090 and spread knitting as a wellness tool. 744 00:46:52,110 --> 00:46:55,394 Mia Hobbs: Thank you so much for joining me, Lauren. It's been an 745 00:46:55,455 --> 00:46:56,550 absolute pleasure. 746 00:46:57,090 --> 00:46:58,470 Lauren Brennan: Thank you so much. 747 00:47:04,380 --> 00:47:06,594 Mia Hobbs: Thank you for listening to the Why I Knit 748 00:47:06,648 --> 00:47:09,727 podcast. If you'd like to find out more about therapeutic 749 00:47:09,781 --> 00:47:12,699 knitting you can follow me on Instagram at knitting is 750 00:47:12,753 --> 00:47:15,346 therapeutic. Or check out my website therapeutic 751 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,641 knitting.org. To be notified when a new podcast is released. 752 00:47:18,695 --> 00:47:20,640 Please subscribe on your podcast app