11. Insecurities

[00:00:00] Nina Endrst: Hi, I'm Nina Endrst

[00:00:05] Anna Toonk: I'm Anna Toonk.

[00:00:06] Nina Endrst: Welcome to How To Be Human

[00:00:07] Anna Toonk: A podcast that explores the common and often confusing themes of humanness.

[00:00:11] Nina Endrst: On this episode, Anna and I discuss insecurity.

[00:00:15] Anna Toonk: Take a seat, clear your mind, and let's chat.

[00:00:22] Nina Endrst: Hello.

[00:00:26] Anna Toonk: I feel like we haven't done this in awhile. It does feel like a while. We literally didn't speak for a day and yet it feels like four weeks.

Yeah, I know. I think that's probably

[00:00:35] Nina Endrst: what it is. You didn't miss much. My belly just hurt. How was your weekend?

[00:00:40] Anna Toonk: Good. It's I don't know. What day is it? I saw humans yesterday.

[00:00:46] Nina Endrst: No life humans at my house. I can't believe it. And some of them are strangers.

[00:00:52] Anna Toonk: No swear to God

[00:00:54] Nina Endrst: shuck. This is a shocking development.

[00:00:57] Anna Toonk: I know. And well, they had kids and my low. Really wanted to play with the girls. We had a mutual friend, so we were in town anyway. I was like, oh, okay. And then

[00:01:09] Nina Endrst: you're like, I'll allow it.

[00:01:11] Anna Toonk: The husband, they walk out and I was like, none of us are anti-vaxxers. Am I right? And he was like, did not think

he was like super, kind of like straight guy and. I was like, oh, well, you know, you got to ask, but then he warmed up a little bit, but he, but it's just so funny when you have people who are very different from you over and the questions they ask. It's just interesting. But anyway, that kind of is a perfect segue.

Because I think stuff comes up. I mean, I was, I wasn't that sweaty or anything yesterday, but I think stuff comes up in that kind of space when you're hanging out with strangers or people you don't know or whatever. And what are we talking about today?

[00:01:54] Nina Endrst: We are talking about insecurity, which. I think is very funny.

It's aligning in my life in an interesting way. I just wanted to say though, I think often that you're one of the funniest people and people miss it. And I'm like, that was really funny. Give her that, like you being like, you know, what's her and talk that it's very funny. I mean, come on. Like, but I do think insecurity.

If you're like, oh, I don't know if that was a test. Like how often insecurity, modal kind of robs us of presence, you know, is like very interesting to me, but also our IP for some of the jokes you make that people just, I mean, I've seen it in meetings. Like it just goes zoom, like over their head. And I'm like, just cause Nina's not like me chuckles the clown, like doesn't mean she isn't very funny.

That was funny. Give her a point, you know, so I just wanted to go on record and on a microphone, Lena, Lena's very funny and people don't give her her.

[00:02:55] Anna Toonk: I appreciate that I had a client once in the middle of yoga class, be like, you should be a standup company. I was like next career.

[00:03:07] Nina Endrst: It's funny.

[00:03:09] Anna Toonk: Yeah. So I'm really thrilled to talk about this topic and for so many reasons, but.

It is because I think it's challenging. It's yeah. It makes me a little insecure.

[00:03:19] Nina Endrst: Yeah. Do you want a definition? Cause, uh, please, I do. I got you. Uncertainty or anxiety about oneself, lack of confidence. Example. She had a deep sense of insecurity. I don't know why I'm like, you got an example. You could have worked a little harder, you know, Oxford and then to the state of being open to danger or threat, lack of protection, growing job insecurity, which I thought was also growing job insecurity.

As the example, I

[00:03:53] Anna Toonk: was thinking about food insecurity this morning when I was going over the topics. So I felt like that would come up for. Yeah,

[00:04:01] Nina Endrst: well, and that makes sense, but I think the lack of protection got me. So to similarly, to when we did vulnerability and I was like, oh, snap, I hadn't realized like, that's actually the definition, you know?

And I felt similarly about insecurity where I was like, oh, like being insecure. It's just like being afraid. You're not good enough or something, you know, like, I'm curious if, if you've had this experience doing this podcast where I've been like, oh, it's really interesting to be challenged, how you define these words and realize like, oh, that's not actually what that means, which it kind of doesn't matter, but it also does.

It's made me sort of recalibrate. So I'm curious, like, how did you define insecurity before you knew what it was?

[00:04:50] Anna Toonk: Um, and it has done that for me, the podcast, but how I defined it w before. Yeah. I mean, two ways, right. Feeling. Insecure for about basic needs being met, not having enough food, not having housing, things like that, like in that kind of lane.

And which I would say is more realistic or based or rooted in reality for some people, unfortunately. And the other definition is. Most of us have experienced all of us have experienced or seen or both, which is the feeling unsettled in the self feeling unsettled about who you are, where you are, how you are, where you are, when you're, where you are, how you are wearing.

And I don't feel like it's changed yet. I mean, we just started, right. So I feel like there'll be nuggets that will shift. Perspective a little bit, but I think for me, it's always been, I wonder how you've dealt with this too. My, my confidence has been steady, but at the same time, because I grew up with a lot of people or I think we all just kind of, we were just talking about belonging before we started.

You've been talking a lot about belonging and I think all of us want to feel seen by. People, right? Yes. Loved ones, strangers, but it's really hard to accept that. Is, or is not going to happen in life. And if you are constantly working on accepting yourself and feeling rooted and grounded in yourself, that it doesn't actually really fucking matter what anybody thinks of you.

So I think a lot of that insecurity drops away.

[00:06:44] Nina Endrst: It's interesting. You say that because like, I think that the conversation around insecurity, especially like on Instagram and stuff like that can be kind of like negative. There's no one who's without insecurity, you know, like, oh, I mean, emotionally, not necessarily in terms of needs resources, things like that.

I'm speaking to like being insecure about yourself. And there can be this like conversation or rhetoric that like you're only healed or evolved or spiritual or whatever, if you have no insecurities and. Well, I mean, like whatever that utopia is, like invite me, but I think something like my journey, if I'm going to be talking about my journey with insecurity, I was a hugely, very insecure person, I would say until my thirties.

And I always had a very strong sense of self, but I struggled with low self worth, a lot of insecurities. And I think. My ego needed a lot of work as well. And it was interesting because I wanted to address the insecurities, but really, if you don't address some of the other stuff, you can't even like scratch the surface with your insecurities.

And I'd also had this real disconnect where I was like, I think gum kind of cool. Like I think I'm okay, but I would get these messages that contradicted it. And I was like, I don't know what to do with that, you know, and then it just manifested it as insecurity. So once I made a bigger, a much deeper peace with myself and was just kind of like for better or worse, this is who I am.

You know, like, this is how I'm moving through this world. It was interesting just how much, like, I didn't even have to work at my insecurity. It's like they'll flare was such a dramatic reduction, just working on some of that other stuff.

[00:08:42] Anna Toonk: Yeah. And don't you F do you feel, I shouldn't say don't you that's leading the witness.

I've been watching a lot of good way. It's really funny that having some, a level of insecurity, I mean, it's, it's healthy. I mean, I know. You know, not humility, but it's it bordering? It's in the neighborhood. It's okay to feel like the F you know, the first time you do something, or the first time you walk in a room, like they, there can be a moment or a wave.

Right. And I think that that really. Yeah, mine's us that we're human.

[00:09:17] Nina Endrst: But I also think, like we forget sometimes like what's normal, what is normal situational insecurity or anxiety, or some of these things like I, a thousand percent agree with you. And I think like, what's the difference between. Insecurity sometimes in like, just sensitivity where it's like, this is an area, or this is something like, like for me sometimes I've quit saying insecure and I've started just being like, I'm sensitive about this, or this is tender for me or something to like help me have a lot more kindness towards myself versus thinking this is something I have to be ashamed of because I'm not a hundred percent confident or.

[00:10:02] Anna Toonk: Yeah. Also, there's a lot of false security happening. This, you know, projection that we all see of people acting as if they are. Secure. I was looking at, I was posting something for us on Instagram today, and the filters popped up and I pressed on one to see what it was. Cause my loves like the alien filters.

And it was the one that a lot of women use and it's not a judgment, but where it literally looks like they've gotten like half of their nose sliced off and there's like contouring on the nose. And I'm like, this shit is crazy. Like this. Just a plastic surgery app essentially, or filter. And so we were promoting like this I'm secure and I'm talking into a camera and I'm being me, but we're covered in like these words.

Filters, which to me there's a big disconnect there.

[00:11:10] Nina Endrst: yeah. I a hundred percent agree with you. And I think like that's where. Insecurity and like validation or intersecting, I feel like, and I had to work. I think maybe like when I was listening to you, I was like, oh, like I was thinking about like validation, you know? And I think I used to really. Be hugely seeking of external validation.

And not that I'm not now, I mean, I joke with you all the time where I'm like, can we

[00:11:39] Anna Toonk: have a fucking

[00:11:39] Nina Endrst: podcast? Yeah, exactly. Right. Exactly.

[00:11:44] Anna Toonk: We're not, we're not screaming into the ether. You get

[00:11:46] Nina Endrst: really good reviews only, you know? Yeah. Yeah,

[00:11:52] Anna Toonk: exactly. It's all of us, right?

[00:11:55] Nina Endrst: Yeah. I would say my own insanity is not unknown to me, but yeah.

Okay. So that like gives everybody a reference point of like, if this is where I've leveled out and kind of a healthier place for me in my quest for validation and imagine where I was when it was very unhealthy. So what was an

[00:12:15] Anna Toonk: unhealthy

[00:12:16] Nina Endrst: expression? Um, I mean, I think because I felt such shame around it and I essentially was like asking everybody that I was ever interacting with, essentially like, tell me I'm okay.

Tell me I'm lovable. Tell me I'm okay. Tell me I'm smart. Like I didn't even think it had language. I think it was like a perfume. I wore like this need for validation. You know, insecure today, but shouldn't that

[00:12:44] Anna Toonk: it would fly off the shelves.

[00:12:46] Nina Endrst: Let's be honest. Oh my God. I bet everyone would only buy it in secret.

So I think that need for validation. And when I started self validating or going, like, I'm going to work. About like, I always had this fear that like, if I self validated, like people were going to like jump out of the bushes and be like, you dumb bitch, that's not true. Or like, I can't believe you told yourself you were cool.

You're not fucking cool. You know, like I had this really weird hyper-vigilance of like, I, that I was going to be wrong, you know, that I was going to like tell myself something and be incorrect. And like, everybody was kinda like laughing at me, which is so weird. Cause I wasn't really bullied or anything.

I don't know. I'm surprised that I internalized it anyway. That way woman Ana, well, people also think it's like, if you're a woman, like you're just open to constant feedback and you know, like allow me to tell everyone right now we're not closed, you know? So when I started being kind of like, let me wait into self validation, let me start validating my feelings.

Let me start validating my experience. Let me start validating my memories. Let me start, you know, like these sort of things and take. Out of the context of right or wrong, you know, and it's interesting to me that this journey with validation came before my journey with intuition, which like, when I look at sort of like my own kind of healing and processing journey, I'm like, oh God, this all makes so much sense.

Like, I couldn't have done that without exploring this, you know? And I remember talking to my therapist about it and being like, I forget what the example was. Like, I forgot what I had done. And then someone like commented or someone was like, oh, I noticed you've done, blah. And I was like, wow. It was interesting.

I was like, I was sorta surprised that I didn't feel anything like it fell flat. I feel like past Anna would have been like, so pumped about that. And she's like, well, external validation only were. If you already believe it to be true, she's like, otherwise it doesn't do anything. It doesn't really connect with us.

And it's just sort of like throwing things down. Uh, wow. You know, and I was like cute Prius, you know? Cause I had felt. In my body, you know, like I had felt it almost like not hit in a way, you know? And that was like so confusing to me. And I was like, oh, when I get validation for things I'm insecure about, it's basically like junk food.

Like, it feels good for a second, but then, you know, it fades or I feel like shit because. There's not real truth there. I'm saying like, I don't believe this to be true. And they're like, no, it's kind of true. And I'm like, okay, problem solved. You know, versus like really going in and going, like, why do I have no confidence about this?

Is it because I haven't done it before. So I need to like build and develop the confidence, you know? Is it, like you said, like you're doing something for the first time, you know, is it. Related to an old story. Is it something that stretches my identity that I'm like, oh, I didn't think I could be someone who did this.

Or, you know, like where is that lack of confidence, you know? And when I took validation out of it and realize how much it's an inside job. And like, people can, like, I think, give us tenderness about our insecurities, but I don't think they can fix our, resolve them and really looking to them to do that feels like it's.

Quite sticky. You know, it's just not gonna work.

[00:16:17] Anna Toonk: I think like moving from one self to a different part of yourself or, or meeting a different part of yourself. I think that's why a lot of people don't do it. Right. Because they don't like to try new things or we don't w you know, we're like, oh, I don't like that.

Or I'm this way, or I'm that way. And I think it's so much about self preservation. And just, if I stick in the lane that I know I have a client who. Obviously I

[00:16:44] Nina Endrst: won't name, but she's named her name. Okay.

[00:16:48] Anna Toonk: All right. This is the time where I break all my ethical rules, but she's brilliant. And I think there's a lot of fear around moving from this very short career.

She has like super successful to something a little bit. Riskier. And there's a lot of insecurity and I'm always shocked because I'm like, you're fucking brilliant. You're, you know, Ivy league educated, you have this like big, huge job. And it just happens to all of us. And I think a big part of what I experienced, what I see is when we're having growing pains.

Yeah. We're like, Ooh, I'm shifting out of the skin, but let me hold on to it. Let me hold on to it. Even though it's shedding everywhere and you can see it and you can feel it and things are starting to crumble and you know, it's not necessarily a disaster all the time, although sometimes it can be, but I feel like there's often a lot of insecurity about like, will I be able to understand myself in this new way?

How will I navigate

[00:17:55] Nina Endrst: that? It's funny because I think, you know, sometimes you think I'm being resistant to change, but it's like, sometimes you'll be like, how do you like about change or whatever, but it's like, I'm more, don't like deviating from a plan which is different. But I think for me, the older I've gotten, the more I've realized that if you can be.

Fluid, you know, with your identity, with your things and also like have your own back. It makes it easier to navigate those times. You know, like when you and I decided to partner, like I had all kinds of different changes happening, and I was just really honest with you about that. Then I was like, you know, I feel confident about this, but I do feel a bit like I'm flying blind or this is kind of new to me or whatever.

The term I use is like naked lobster. That when lobsters,

[00:18:54] Anna Toonk: it makes me feel things when you

[00:18:56] Nina Endrst: say that, but they, when they molt, they hide, you know, like until they've grown their new shell. And I think where I get frustrated sometimes is that I don't know. People learn how to take care of themselves when they're a naked lobster and they just shut down or don't change or don't do anything, or just stay in the job they're miserable at versus like expanding their skillset to be like, how can I show up for myself when I'm insecure?

And I see this a lot in like friendships and stuff. And I'm curious, like how you feel like your insecurities have shown up in dynamics and well, and it's a, two-parter, don't worry. It's not just you, that we're going to roast, but also, like, I feel like so often in any relationship, like. We're often really conversing with people about like, this is what I'm insecure about.

Like, can you not poke that? And we're like, yes, agreed. Or like, this is what I need. Can you provide that? You know, like we're communicating all these things under the surface, and I'm just curious how you've felt. Navigating that whether it's gentleness around your insecurities, because I think you're good about owning it.

Like, I think both of us, like when things have cropped up, we've just been like, oh, I think I'm just insecure about block. Like, it doesn't seem to be an issue for us in our partnerships. So like, I'm curious. How you feel about it, like out in the wild,

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[00:21:05] Anna Toonk: It's not an issue for us and which is why I think it works so well because we've really spoken from the beginning about our sensitivities or, you know, I remember just being like you asking me questions about like, Like money stuff, right? Like, how does this work? How does that work? Like, I don't know this, I don't know that.

And I was like, oh yeah, obviously she needs to know that. Like, but it was right at the beginning where I think not I've learned and I'm learning to have as little. I mean, obviously everybody has ego and that's healthy, but as little ego in it, whatever it is as possible because it blocks me personally. I know from.

Being creative or being fluid or hearing the other person to the best of my ability. And I think in friendships, it's men that I'm going through a real naked lobster moment. As you know, I'm butt ass naked. You guys

[00:22:04] Nina Endrst: she's moved beyond being the naked lobster to the streaker lobster that the ocean is discussing.

[00:22:17] Anna Toonk: So I had really, really good friends for most of my life who were in the same. People. And I would have, you know, different friend groups, but I always had this core group and it was the same kind of thing in college. And, um, most of that has dropped off. There's a few people that I still have in my life.

One of them who I know is listening and will be like, you are not an old friend one time. I was like an old friend. She's like, so am I, does that mean I'm we're no longer, no joke. I just be funny. It just means I know you for a long time, but. My friendships were so important to me for so long. They still are, but because I didn't have any siblings and I wasn't the most successful in school in a lot of different ways.

So I really took my ability to navigate relationships in a healthy way and in a positive way. Very seriously. And

[00:23:14] Nina Endrst: that's fascinating. Thank you.

[00:23:16] Anna Toonk: Thank you very much. And I love. That I had this group of friends that I, that I trusted that trusted me. And I kind of felt like I, I figured something. Even though a lot of things weren't healthy for me.

I was like, I've cracked something here, you know? So I'm kind of just realizing some of this now, by the way. But when that all started to crumble, I was like, do I just not have that figured out? I

[00:23:43] Nina Endrst: don't know how to be

[00:23:46] Anna Toonk: interacting with people at this point in my life in the same way, because you know, way.

And I were just talking about this the other day. Like, he's like, you. Take such good care of yourself at this point in my life that like, I rest, I mean, I go to sleep with not sleep, but I'd go and lay down with my kid every single night. Like I literally do the last time I stayed up was when you were here Ana or like why?

And I will hang out, but sometimes. Yeah.

[00:24:14] Nina Endrst: Yeah. Like, I mean, I know just because I know your rhythms, so I also knew like, oh, special occasion, she's staying up.

[00:24:22] Anna Toonk: I take really good care of myself, but in doing that, I lost a lot of friends because I didn't want to engage the same way and I didn't want to play the same kind of role anymore.

So exhausted by being the one who called all the time or the one who tried all the time or the one who understood all the time. And that's not to be like in a victim space because I don't feel like one at

[00:24:43] Nina Endrst: all. No, but you just realize the dynamic.

[00:24:46] Anna Toonk: Yeah. And when I woke up to it, I was like, okay, this is an experiment.

And I just stopped calling. Yeah. And I stopped trying, and I didn't do it to play games with anybody, but I was like, let's see how. Much of a two-way street. This is let's see what happens. And the friendships I still have are really the only people that were like, I'm going to check in on Nina and see how.

And just, I say, hi, you know, but the rest of them, I was like, I just don't. So I'm, I'm trying to take really good care of myself in that space and not make it mean anything, you know, it's I have a different life now. I'm not like running around in my twenties in the city and I'm not, I miss having that like solid group of friends, but at the same time, And now I just have a different life, you know?

[00:25:34] Nina Endrst: Yeah. I think something too that I'm hearing in what you're saying, like, I understand why that would like kind of rattle you, you know, or be kind of like, wait a minute. I thought I was really good at this and maybe I'm not like I could see how that you don't like, I think that's being responsible to be honest, to do that reflection of like, what's up here, you know?

Am I the common denominator? Well, yeah, but like, you're like, listen, it would be really easy to just say they're all jerks. I'm perfect. I mean, I'd love to joke about that and like, say I have a joke with the long-term. Like inside the house, you know? Or she'd be like, where did you be? Like how that day goes?

I was like, cool. But I mean, he should be obsessed with me. And she's like insight thought Anna inside. I was like, yeah, but like you're my best. See in safe space. I think what I have witnessed is I feel like you are figuring out what are your needs around friendship, because I feel like your needs have changed in the sense of.

You don't like, I witnessed it, like y'all live a really, really beautiful life. Thank you. Why would you, and you've built it and it's a lot of work they're hustling, but I tell you what, like Nina and Wendy are like smiling while they're doing it, you know? And like, it didn't feel performative. It didn't feel like, because I was a guest, like, I really felt like I was getting to witness like a snapshot of what your life was like, you know, I didn't feel like y'all were being different.

Cause I was there, you know, who has the energy for that? Except for taking like exquisite care of me, like for real, but like y'all have worked that out of like, You know, wait as this, you do this. And like Milo super happy and well adjusted. I mean, I do think people's kids are like a really good thermometer of like, what's up in a household, you know?

Cause they don't know how to filter. They don't know, you know, like, so seeing this like super happy, secure, you know, snugly bunny of a child who, you know, just wants to hang out with me, I'm like things are working here, you know? I think that changes the role that friendship plays in your life. And then it is going to, I feel like I'm in

[00:27:41] Anna Toonk: therapy right now,

[00:27:42] Nina Endrst: but I, I just find it interesting because like my friends still have, I think more importance to me because.

I'm still figuring that out. And my family is dicey. You know, I can sometimes be connected with them. Sometimes I have to pull back, you know, that like, I think it puts a different steaks and stuff on my friendships, but I think like what I started to hear from you a couple of months ago, it was like, you were, I think, a bit lonely.

Like I think you were coming to terms with these friendships. Aren't feeding me. I need to adjust to something. But I need something, you know, and I felt like witnessing you sort of evaluate that was interesting because a couple of times, like you were just being really vulnerable with me, you know? But I think like, it's not like we shouldn't be like looking to people to make us happy or a friend shouldn't like fix our lives.

Like that's not what I think, you know, anyone who's single is doing. That's not what I'm saying, but I think. You've worked really hard to have a life that you love, you get to be in that you feel it. I think you're very present in it that it's just going to make anything that feels bad, way more obvious.

You know, that you're like, Ugh, like this doesn't belong. Like even if it's like, not that bad, but it's like, I think your happiness like gave you the space to see, like, if I'm. Honest, these friendships. Aren't making me happy.

[00:29:18] Anna Toonk: oh man. Yeah. It's like, you're speaking to my soul. It's true. And I wonder what you have currently experience. Around insecurity

[00:29:32] Nina Endrst: and you're a jerk. I know what you're doing. You're a jerk. I'm kidding. She's glad that we have our cameras off and I can't give her a love

[00:29:41] Anna Toonk: finger. No,

[00:29:43] Nina Endrst: it'd be like, I see what you're doing.

You tricky, tricky sly Fox. No, it's funny. I had a feeling this would come up. Yeah. I have some tension. I have some tension in my life. I have multiple tensions in my life right now. My mother's popping off right in time for the holidays, which is great and has totally fucked up Thanksgiving, which Thanksgiving is stupid.

Anyway, we shouldn't be like having a holiday about colonizing, but you know, I'm there I'm, I'm with it for the gratitude and things like that. My mom is being an agent of chaos. And then I get insecure and be like, well, I shouldn't be so dependent on my mom. I should have my own family. Anyway. You want to come for Thanksgiving?

Well, no. Now I'm going to an Italian restaurant in the city because when I was like, you know what it is. Let's cancel Thanksgiving, 2021. She like dug her heels in and had to double down while she was like going through security at Atlanta Hartsfield. And my mom has had plastic surgery recently. It looks like quasi Modo.

So I'm like, are you wearing them? She really wasn't there when the shooting happened. Yeah. Well she was trying to get to the airport and was like, I'm going to miss my flight. And then they were like, there has been an accidental weapons, discharge, and she's worried about that. My mom, I mean, oh my God.

Learned to her. Chaos. So. I get insecure about that sort of stuff. And I get insecure about having kind of a not great family situation. I feel like kind of made my peace about it, but like, I have to take care of myself because I think without care I can become insecure and I have to remind myself, like, it's not like.

It's not my doing, I can't control it. These are other people. And then something else that has come up, like the family stuff can be really difficult. And anyone else who's in that or anyone else who with all this holiday shit and this, like, you know, it's time to be with your fam and all that stuff. If that's hard for you, like I'm right in there with you, it can be really tricky.

Another thing that's come up and that I'm, you know, definitely insecure about is talking too much. And that has been a lifelong story. My dad used to come home from work and when we would sit down for dinner, he would, you know, how was your day? I would start? And he would go into the short version and you know, and my mom would be like, Oh, you started talking really young and like, then you never stopped.

And God for a while there, when you were really little, I thought you were going to go, I was going to go crazy because you would just ask me so many questions and I'm just like, please, I get that. But then like, it's so interesting when I see friends with their kids and pretty much, I think children are one way or the other.

They're either silent, you know, and like, and kind of play by themselves. I feel like, or. They're loud. Like there's just kind of no, in between, in my opinion, from what I've experienced, you know? And I'm like, I see so many friends. I see you with my, I mean, that's why I'm like, I don't know how y'all do this.

It's so full on. I feel that way about every parent, you know, like, by the way, like I have him, I'm impressed by all of you, but there was no resentment on y'all's part. Like y'all were like, you're like, this is it. This is the gig. You know? So from a really young age though, I internalize that and there's a breed of person.

That wants me to feel insecure about it. I feel like, and does weaponize it and it's coming up for me and a dynamic and it's deeply painful. It's definitely a wound, but also, and this is something I have said to the people this involves is I'm like, this is a dynamic. I don't engage in like to protect myself.

I'm not going to really argue about whether or not I talk too much and actually talking to you about it was really helpful. Cause you were like, yeah, you talk a lot. Like that's why I do a podcast. Yeah,

[00:33:42] Anna Toonk: dead air

[00:33:43] Nina Endrst: would be awesome. Yeah. Like you were like, yeah, like that's one of your selling points, you know?

And I was like, it's true for like all these people. And I honestly think like part of why I resisted doing a podcast for years, I kid you, not years, like people have been telling me to do this is I was afraid that all those people would jump out of the bushes and be like, oh my God, this bitch just never shuts up.

That I was really insecure about that then I was like, yeah, yeah, I know. I talk about, well, guess what I found a way to like pivot it into a career move, you know, like made that talk, talk, work for me or something, but. And I think also too, I felt like when people were saying, I talked like that, I was like monopolizing or being selfish.

Like I definitely put other messages to it. And I think part of why it also really hurt my feelings is like really? I talk. Cause I'm, I'm trying to share, I'm trying to connect. I'm trying to talk about like, what's been in my head. I'm trying to invite you in. It's definitely not a way I'm trying to monopolize.

[00:34:48] Anna Toonk: Well, I know that. I

[00:34:49] Nina Endrst: mean, when you tell everyone else you got my magic, can you share it with everyone else and explain it? No, I mean, I'm

[00:34:58] Anna Toonk: used to being around people who I, that was one of my insecurities for a long time. Also, it was talking too much. And then I became, I have two speeds. I am either talking a lot or.

Mostly silent. Now I'm learning to like find the middle ground. But yeah, I think it's hard. I don't, I feel like people want to project something on us for whatever reason at whatever time. What do you think the people who are on the other end of that comment are insecure about

[00:35:32] Nina Endrst: their ability to communicate.

So if somebody,

[00:35:34] Anna Toonk: if you're talking a lot, right, And you're just talking and talking and talking and talking some

[00:35:40] Nina Endrst: more. Maybe I took a breath. Maybe I did. It's still talking and somebody wants to talk. What would you do you mean like if I'm talking and I note it, oh, if I'm on the other side of that. Yeah. I mean, I think I would just.

This is, what's funny is like some of the people who have criticized me, I feel like have done it to me, which is also like, what's really funny. And so I think in the past I've said things like, wow, it seems like you have a lot to say about this or whatever, or I've been like, hold on. Like you've given me like 50, like really interesting things to like mull over hold let's.

I want it. Can we go back to this? You know, like I think I've just. Spoken up. And sometimes I guess I've been rude where I've like interrupted, but I think that I've just sort of in a way, self advocated, or just waited until they stopped and then was just like, whoa, that's also, I think sometimes when people share things like is a gift and you can tell sometimes the, like what's behind it.

Yes. I think what sometimes people accuse me of that. I don't think it's necessarily fair. It's like, I'm not monologuing. You know, like, I'm usually, it's more like, in my opinion, needy brain of being like, oh, and I thought of this, and then I did it. And it's like, excitement that I'm like, I'm afraid I'm going to like, forget this stuff.

Or, you know, like it's some of that stuff that I'm more just like, blah, like here it is react to it, you know, versus being like, oh, I have a captive audience. Let me maximize this. You know, we.

[00:37:17] Anna Toonk: I mean, we've met those and yeah, and again, with that, what I've learned from having somebody in my life who is a family member, who is like talks nonstop about themselves, it's really big trigger for me and other people.

And, but what I've realized about him is like, he's not, he's doing it cause he's nervous and. I'm not saying there aren't like narcissistic tendencies, but it's like a lot of nerves. So I think the more to like, which I don't think by the way is your brand at all. But I think the more that we can just kind of step out of our own shit and see the other person.

I mean, my son. From the time he wakes up to the time he goes to sleep. I mean, like he talks all day

[00:38:03] Nina Endrst: long, even when he's by himself. Like even when he's playing by himself, he's like, he's singing keys. He's narrating. Like, it's really cute. It's adorable. He's like off in the corner, he said, yeah. And you do this and you know, like, yeah,

[00:38:20] Anna Toonk: yeah.

I think for some parents, what I've witnessed or maybe even like in my own life is not for me because I, I love hearing him and I try to work really hard on myself, but I think what a lot of people might be up against is what that brings up in them. You know, whatever mirror that holds up. And is it that you don't feel comfortable expressing yourself that way?

Is it that you don't feel comfortable inserting yourself in a powerful way? I mean, it can't always be the other person. We have to take responsibility for our own insecurities and not kind of like dig into other people's.

[00:39:09] Nina Endrst: It's funny you say that because. A lot about it. And I've thought about like my dad, rather than being honest and being like, I'm tired, I've worked a full day. I don't have a lot of energy leftover for like kid talk instead chose to be mean to me, you know, like that's what happened. It wasn't about my talking, you know, it was about

[00:39:32] Anna Toonk: his lack of prep, like being able to be present or like he was burnt out because God knows what, but it was all

[00:39:39] Nina Endrst: his stuff.

And with I've had this, I mean, I haven't really had this dynamic with men, but, and it's actually interesting. I've, you know, dated a lot of men who are like kind of quieter. And I was just like, do you feel like I never shut up? And they're like, no, I think you're talkative, but they're like, I like it it's different than me.

It's interesting to me that it hasn't really been an issue dating wise when so many other things have. It's all clear. There I'm all clear there, but it's been way more of an issue with women. And I can't really say about any non binary friends because it hasn't come up yet, but for, you know, female identifying it has been an issue and I'm not saying.

I'm not saying I don't talk a lot. I'm aware I'm here. I mean, I'm doing it, but I think part of my insecurity, part of the trigger for me is why is there never any space in that conversation that it's not. I don't need to cordially invite you to take up space. And it's like, you're essentially saying you need to be quiet for me to shine brighter.

Like, that's just not a cool thing to say to anyone that's not a cool way in my opinion, to be moving through life. And I don't think it really has anything to do with me. Like that's where I've started to net out. I'm not denying that Blake. I play a part in this, but I believe I'm more providing the mirror for them to look at what is being brought up versus the issue is my talking.

I agree with

[00:41:20] Anna Toonk: you. We have to do another episode about female friendships. Oh yeah. Specifically, specifically, what shall we leave them

[00:41:30] Nina Endrst: with today? If you're a chatty Cathy keep chatting. No, I'm kidding. But like sometimes stop, like sometimes, I mean, like, it's interesting though. I think part of what you said about you were talking, you were really good at relationships, you know, like in people, I think part of why I am so insecure about.

The talking thing is I feel the same way. So I do try to be aware of cues. I do watch if some, if I'm like a lost I'm like I stopped talking, you know what I mean? So that's why I think it is this trigger is, is I'm like I've done a lot of work. I've done a lot of adjustment around this and like, I'm still hearing it.

Like, I don't know that it's always me. And I would tell, I think. Uh, when we are insecure about something, we tend to shut down. Or just sort of collapsed and be like, yeah, I know. No, one's perfect. No, one's asking for perfection. So if you can, I know, I feel like I say this about everything we talk about, but if you can try not to collapse and instead just kind of go, yeah.

What is the story around that? Why am I so insecure about that? What is the messaging I've received around that? And then. Is that the way this person is like often if it's someone else, like if we're like, she makes me insecure or whatever, she's not doing shit. You don't like number one, like double at war.

I would say double-check that if they're trying to make you insecure, that's not good. That's on them, you know, but if someone is just like, literally interacting with you and you're having this major, like kind of insecurity flare, just try to ask yourself why, like, what does it relate to? What are the previous messages you've had about this?

What are the stories you've internalized around this? It may not be what's happening in this moment. And you know, like we started this talking about how like, insecurity is a lack of confidence in. So, how could you build your confidence? You know, like I find sometimes for me, just literally saying it out loud or just admitting it and not feeling like I'm hiding from something immediately makes me feel more confident.

Like at least, I mean, truthful with myself, at least I am meeting myself like that takes courage and it will immediately give me a little bit of a confidence boost, no matter, like what's.

[00:43:49] Anna Toonk: Kind of put a bet on myself. Yeah, I concur. And the only thing I'd add is, like you said, treating herself like your best friend is in moments of insecurity or flare ups, or feeling like a clenching or a sweaty newness.

It's important to meet yourself. There's nobody else can meet you the way you can meet you. And. Will in and of itself. Trust and confidence that you can get through these types of moments and you can navigate, and you'll know when maybe a friendship isn't healthy or a relationship or someone's projecting on you.

And you'll be able to like detach speaking of this post that you posted today on Saul, that. Very excited about you can detach from somebody else's insecurities so that you can deal with your own shit. And then come back to the table and like a more clear conversation about what's happening or what feels good or what doesn't, but not expecting other people to know our insecurity is not absorbing those of others and just kind of trying to keep it clear and as much as possible.

So we'll talk more. We'll

[00:45:05] Nina Endrst: talk more, you guys tell us what you're insecure about.

[00:45:08] Anna Toonk: Yeah. Just send us a

[00:45:09] Nina Endrst: DM, DMS, your insecurity. I wouldn't be curious though. Like I bet people would surprise us. And I also want to say like, when I really read. The blessing and the curse about life is no one is paying as much attention to you as you are, was like a liberation and a heartbreak.

And it's something I come back to over and over again, when I feel insecure that I'm like, no one is paying as much attention to this as I am. And maybe anyone who is scrutinizing me that much is not good for me, which is okay, you know, and. Try to free yourself as well from it. Remember, like we're all more than our insecurities.

Remember? Nobody cares. Remember no one cares except me slide in my jams care. I care me too. Me too.

[00:46:04] Anna Toonk: Bye y'all.

[00:46:11] Nina Endrst: That's all for today's episode.

[00:46:13] Anna Toonk: If there's a topic you want us to discuss, please submit it on our website at thesoulunity.com/howtobehuman.

[00:46:19] Nina Endrst: If you want to connect with other thoughtful humans, please join us at the Soul Unity. Listeners get two weeks free by going to our website and visiting our podcast page.

[00:46:28] Anna Toonk: Thanks for listening. And remember we're guides, not gurus.